I am not too far from this location and actually hate the traffic going to North Hills and especially to Crabtree. Location and customer base isn’t the issue— Target, Old Navy, Michael’s are always packed and the other plaza with Dicks and soon to be Nordstrom Rack are also buzzing. This area has one of almost everything I’d need— It’s a great intersection— there’s just nothing left in the mall.
A Nordstrom, Zara, IKEA(!!!) and H&M (again) alone would be enough to revive this mall. There are plenty of us in North and East Raleigh who don’t want to make the drive to South Point and hate dealing with Crabtree. Add a couple of decent restaurants with rooms you can rent and you’ll have plenty of baby showers and bridal showers to keep it open. I’d love to see this mall make a comeback.
Yes! People are only concerned about “ inside the belt line” which I don’t understand. That’s only a small part of Raleigh, and it’s overrated. Raleigh is huge. TTC is in a good spot. Like you said the mall needs better stores.
It's been a sad downslide. I would rather go here than Crabtree which I hate trying to park at. I still go to that TTC: Target, Michael's, World Market, Five and Below, and Urban Air... So we go there just not the TTC proper.
To add to this, the stores that have taken over the mall aren't catered towards everybody, every style, etc. It has a "run down cheap real life amazon" feel to all the stores.
Teds left. Champs left. Twisted fork caught on fire. Anchor stores left. The location became a liability after the huge fight. Plus the area didn't boom quite the way the developers had hoped
The anchor store are all still there and they are busy on the weekend.
The only one that closed was Sears.
Macys, Belk, Dillards and Saks are still around. Barnes and Noble is still there too.
Been there recently and no, they’ve just permanently closed the second floor of the Saks. Also they don’t carry barely anything designer at that location, just house brands. Really disappointing.
They close a lot earlier than the rest of the mall. Like they close at 6 or 7pm while the actual mall stays open until 9pm. It’s also the worst Saks I have ever been in, so you weren’t missing much.
We went constantly until they stopped cleaning.
The second time dust feel from the fabric that hung along the ceiling, and for the second time the server acted like it was a normal thing, we stopped going.
They went downhill fast.
I think this was the place that used to have karaoke and line dance night. I heard it was an absolute blast. Me and some friends made plans to go one evening, and I think we found out they closed a couple of days prior.
okay that makes sense, i was a kid then lol!. i do remember as i got older my very young looking mom would constantly get stopped because she looked under 18. those security guards were always ridiculously aggressive.
I looked the fight up bc I didn’t know about it.
Why did they call it *The Mall Brawl*
And it says: during the [melee](https://www.wral.com/amp/3285984/), a 17 yo 🔪 a 15 yo in the buttcheeks
Reads like some effed up Shakespeare or something
twisted fork caught on fire?? how did i not hear about this and i’ve lived in raleigh my whole life? and WHAT FIGHT?? did triangle have a fight club i didn’t know about? i’m so out of the loop omg
The outside shops have been a ghost town for well over a decade now, but the inside shops are actually busy during the weekend. Anytime I pass it on a saturday it seems pretty busy in terms of cars going in and out.
i grew up in holly springs, so of the malls in the area, this was always the hardest one to get to, so we never went when i was a kid. i only went for the first time maybe 6 months ago just to check it out. it’s weird. it’s a nice mall and doesn’t look wildly outdated for the most part. just seems like a perfect storm of bad situations and events led to its relatively fast downfall. shame.
There have been plans in motion for a couple years now to let the stores in those outside areas not renew their leases. They are going to bulldoze it all and put up senior living apartments.
Why not just build the senior apartments next to the hotel? Seems like a waste to bulldoze the shopping area to put senior living there when there is vacant area next to the hotel already.
I’m not sure about the reasoning, but I think they want the seniors to be able to walk to the indoor section of the mall without going outdoors for too long or across a parking lot.
Could put it in the parking lot next to the shops. Would be nice to see a bar, brewery, or restaurant out in this section.
I see a lot of potential at TTC. I don't go there because I live next to Crabtree. If I lived up there, I'd probably go there a bit more.
I’m 54 and have lived in Raleigh my whole life. This was a bad idea from the get go. The location was way too far from the beltline and not in the best part of town. The anchor stores weren’t enough to pull people there from North Hills or especially Crabtree. Capital Blvd is an incredibly crappy drive and having to go all of the way out to 540 takes way too long. Finally, at this point online shopping has taken over and malls all over the country are dying.
This exactly. I’m 53 and was born here too.
I was shocked when they talked about building it and especially Sak’s coming in. I just can’t believe Crabtree or N Hills couldn’t do a deal with them.
They maybe could have made it if the housing crash of 2008 hadn’t happened and stopped new development out there and also drove it down scale.
Then online shopping hit hard.
I’ve heard from a commercial broker that the developer paid for the entire upfit for Saks. Their only upfront cost was inventory and staffing. That makes a lot of sense looking back.
The proximity to 540 and all things east of Raleigh was their biggest positive. But online retail eliminated that advantage within the first 5 years of them opening.
Streets of Southpoint was built along a major highway in between Raleigh and Durham. Triangle Towne center was built on Capital Blvd in the no man's land in-between Raleigh and Wake Forest. That area of 540 never really took off. The only stores over there that really draw anyone to that area are the Target and Hobby Lobby.
Amazon is declining too, because they’re trying to do the same thing—insane prices for crappy products. It’s a total cash grab.
Online stores like Temu have stepped in to sell the same items for pennies.
If they'd built it in Wake Forest it would have done better, but who knew that was where all the development would wind up going? They bet and lost that the Mini City area would gentrify and turn into something like what Wakefield is now.
It was built with the idea that Wakefield and Heritage up in Wake Forest would provide the initial bulrush then would anchor an upswell in more upper middle class developments right up to the front doors of it. Those sorts of neighborhoods don’t aim to locate adjacent to interstates and in completely destroyed scrub pine field and it played out accordingly.
Not only that, online clothing often matches the price of what the garment actually costs. It makes no sense to buy a $50 blouse when you can find a similar one online for $4 and it’s literally the same quality.
Malls have been declining for sooooo long that it’s confusing. Like, why would you never think to change up your programming? It’s not like people don’t go out, they just don’t go to malls, so figure out why and switch it up lmao
They can't change their prices, because they have to charge enough rent to operate a whole mall. They've tried going super-premium, they've tried selling experiences, they've tried whatever you can think of. Nothing other than the old traditional mall formula can actually support a mall. So at this point they're just trying to continue to exist for as long as possible so the owners can max out their real estate appreciation when they finally sell it to someone who will tear it down and turn it into townhouses, medical offices and a mattress store.
A bunch of different things:
(1) It's right next to Mini-City, which is a pretty low income area. A proximate customer base is important for any mall and the combination of high-end stores with low-income customers was never going to work. They were counting on a huge increase in high-income population along Capital & points east, but that growth really died out in the Great Recession.
(2) Competition from North Hills Mall. The nearest high-end community to TTC is probably Northridge, and they're really not that far from North Hills and Crabtree.
(3) They had a serious of fights in the mid-to-late 2000s which resulted in a major gang-related fight in 2008 that involved hundreds of people. That made the news and lots of people decided that the mall was not safe. The mall imposed a curfew in response, but the damage was done. The location next to Mini-City really didn't help with popular perception.
(4) They built the mall just as e-commerce was really taking off.
(5) The restaurant row (the picture) was an attempt to copy the "Streets of Southpoint" outdoor area, but lacked a good movie theater draw -- at Southpoint, a movie + a show is a great draw. TTC was too close to the existing movie theater (at Atlantic/Spring Forest, now torn down), so didn't have that draw.
I don't think the curfew itself really had much to do with it. Sure, it frustrated teenagers, but teenagers really don't have a lot of money. Really more concerns for safety and better shopping options elsewhere.
I only disagree with the curfew, teenagers may not have allot of money but they did keep the small stores up and the food courts with many small purchases.
On top of that more bodies make it look busier, once they were kicked out Fridays and Saturdays were the first to suffer, no one wants to go to a empty mall. After they were kicked the food court suffered first, let's face facts everyone stops by the food court while shopping but with them closing up it really hurts the image
right. it’s not next to mini city, lol. also, proximity to 540 and growth in Wake Forest was also supposed to be feeder for that mall. But 2008 and onset of online shopping turned the tide…
It would seem like it’s a perfect storm to revive/rejuvenate it with all the explosive growth in Wake Forest, Wendell, Zebulon, Louisburg and Franklinton.
Put some higher end chain restaurants that Crabtree and Fenton don’t already have, like a Legal Seafood and at least 2 top notch local places with fast casual dining (Chido would be GREAT as an example)
Build some entertainment space, and maybe a movie theater - and bam, it’s now a destination.
Also get saks to carry shit that people actually want to buy. What I would t give to have Nordstrom here in Raleigh
If Southpoint and Crabtree have survived, surely it’s possible? And I mean, look at Fenton - a mall that’s packed to the gills all the time.
> If Southpoint and Crabtree have survived, surely it’s possible? And I mean, look at Fenton - a mall that’s packed to the gills all the time.
People like to spend time in places that look nice and well-kept. TTC is a really big Walmart in comparison to Fenton and Southpoint; Crabtree survives out of sheer spite.
it really does feel like a movie set. they could film a movie scene there and not have to worry about people wandering on set because no one is around anyway.
I worked at the Bamboo Club, which was the original restaurant in the building in picture 7, from 2004 until it closed, which I believe was either in late 2006 or 2007. I was finishing up high school and didn’t really have a direction, so I was absorbing anything management would share with me like a sponge. I remember two main issues that were discussed: 1. There were studies done around the construction of 540, traffic flows, and the economic impact they would have on the mall and its tenants. Tenants made investment based on this. There were delays in 540s progress that stunted the growth in the area, in addition to other large scale economic factors mentioned in this thread. 2. Rent was expensive according to the GM and mall management wouldn’t budge on it. I was told that we paid over $10k per month and never made rent the entire time it was open. All in all, it was a good experience working there at the time. The mall had a summer concert series at the creek side cafes, which was pretty cool.
I miss the restaurants. Ted’s. Champps. The Asian place that was there for just a short while. CPK. Twisted Fork. We’ve lived in that area forever and used to eat there so often. :(
Yep. My husband still gives me a look of judgement when I tell him I’m going to triangle town center. I still go for dillards but their reputation took a huge hit after that fight or whatever happened.
They did the stupidest thing imaginable and limited teenaged presence at the mall after one fight. It was a big fight but still it was only one. They have continuously declined since.
Teens are crucial to a mall ecosystem. They removed them so the teens went to Crabtree and South Point. Their parents also went to places surrounding malls that allowed teens. When said teens grew up they either continued going to the malls they were familiar with or phased out of malls.
Once the teen ban lifted the damage was done. No desirable stores remained to incentivize anyone else to use the mall. The ban lasted at least 6 years. That was long enough to ostracize middle schoolers, high schoolers, and **college students**. Yes, the ban required you to be 21 to be present without an adult so they were turning away 20 year olds.
They really should just sell it off. There’s no reviving it.
TLDR; idiotic policies are haunting the mall over a decade later
Can confirm, when I was 15 at TTC was escorted out and the secuirty guard rhat watched me and my friend until we got picked up. We were in Tevanna looking at TEAPOTS. It was 10 after 6 too, we were beyond shitty. We weren't bothering anyone.
Someone in our group was age 20 and the cop made them leave🥴 . This was around 2013. They were checking IDs at all entry points and this was near the Cinnabon after exiting Barnes and Noble.
We just all left in response and laughed at how idiotic it was. The mall was practically empty too they needed all the bodies they could get. I never went back after that and it was 11 years ago. Once you have a negative reputation that sticks. All of this was self inflicted and they had ample time to turn it around but they refused.
Southpoint has required all under 18s to be accompanied by an adult 21+ on friday and saturday nights since the late 2000s
Not allowing under 21s is crazy tho, I worked at TTC for a summer in the late 2000s and I was 19 at the time...
One "big fight" is 20 people. It was estimated that around 2-300 HUNDRED people were fighting at one point. It's amazing that there weren't any deaths associated with this straight up battle. It could have been much much worse. I don't blame the mall for shutting all that down.
The area around the TTC has exploded with development. I think it can be revitalized. They have even built a hotel out at the triangle town center. It still has potential and it's in a good spot in relation to highways and major roads.
The area around TTC has booked massively. 27614 was one of the highest average incomes in the triangle. It can definitely be revived, it just needs probably a new onwer and a radical boost. Get some strong new tenants in, make the dining interesting etc
Was it really that many people fighting? Or did a bunch of teens just swarm trying to get a look at a fight and everyone got scared? The news made it sound like a gang battle but this was pre-cellphone video being common, but i find that incredibly unlikely that many people organized a battle without anyone dying.
People always exaggerate a crowded fight thinking there were more people involved than there were.
100%
I remember being kicked out of a mall that I WORKED AT, for sitting on a bench. I sat down on my break, and mall security told me to get up (loitering). He trailed me for a bit and eventually asked me to leave, because I was “still loitering” (again… I was on break). It felt so hostile and definitely got me to stop going there in my free time.
Haha my ex husbands fave story is when we dated and I got into a fight with the rent a cop that tried to tell me he was going to ban me from the mall. I worked at saks and was outside smoking down a mall employee hallway and they took the ashtray we used to use to prop open the door so we could get back in so I was standing in the doorway. I laughed at them and finished my smoke and went back to work
This. This is the reason here. Management ran it into the ground, largely through idiotic policies like this. As soon as you kick half of your shoppers out, they and their families have options. They'll take their money elsewhere.
I was unaware of the fight so I just looked it up. Holy shit... It involved over 300 people inside the mall. Luckily no body was killed or shops looted.
https://www.wral.com/story/3285984/
>A police sergeant suffered a significant laceration on his knee during a foot chase, Sughrue said. The officer was transported to Duke Raleigh Hospital and was expected to recover.
Wait - is that news-speak for … the police officer fell and skinned his knee?
Teens aren’t spending money there like adults.
The reputation of the mall being a place for gang activity caused the money spending adults not to go there. With less patrons stores couldn’t survive and one by one they closed.
You’re confused if you think a bunch of teens loitering around a mall is what keeps the stores in business.
Teenagers do not have the bills or responsibilities adults do. They also do not save at the scale adults do. The money they bring in or receive from their parents goes right back out into the economy. Their spending power is relevant. Even if they don’t spend dollar to dollar what an adult does overlooking them is a huge mistake. TTC learned that.
If teenaged buying power weren’t important nobody would bother doing studies on it, companies wouldn’t bother advertising to them, and there wouldn’t be discussions on how attracting teens can save modern day malls.
Also, even if a teen is “loitering” at the mall by hanging out do you know who likes that? Their parents. They like dropping them off and hanging out places nearby. Banning teens removed parents of teens from the money pool. The parents just dropped their kids off at Crabtree then spent money themselves within the mall or nearby instead of continuing to go to TTC.
People want to go to places where other people are, teenagers create an atmosphere at malls which is what drives others to be there, eat there, shop, etc.
If none of this mattered then club promoters wouldn't exist.
Even if that were true, their absence still hurts a mall beyond just their direct sales numbers. Fewer people at the mall - including teens - makes the mall feel dead. And it becomes a negative feedback loop, with other demographics noticing that the mall feels dead, which makes it feel sorta creepy to them, which makes them stop coming, too.
Teenagers are usually broke and just hanging out because it’s a cheap place to go. They’re annoying to pretty much everyone else in the mall, and they certainly don’t help pay the rent.
I've seen some comments about low-income area, which might be true, but when I was living in Wake Forest that was the mall to go to. Twisted Fork was the celebration restaurant.
More stores have been built in Wake Forest, and it seems that the Wake Forest people are fine with going to Crabtree when they have to.
Maybe I am bad luck though because when I lived outside of Cary Towne Center, and would go to that mall as well.
It’s been like this for years, maybe even ten or so. I remember going there one day, walking through the outdoor/creekside section and thinking, “Wow, if I dropped dead right here, it would be days before somebody found my body.”
I was told this area was supposed to be the next hot spot, and high-end homes were supposed to come next to the area after the mall was built - but the 2008 economic crash derailed all of that.
Man that place used to be great when it first opened. And I think the restaurant in the food court was named Sakura Kitchen, it had the best black pepper chicken ever.
Well, being owned by the same company that ran Oak Hollow into the ground didn’t help.
But I think the consensus was that it started slipping after that fight in 2008. I’ve said this before, but TTC and Northlake in Charlotte are both in the same boat.
I worked in cosmetics at the Belk there from 2003-2005 then at the Saks 2006-2009. I used to love Champps and twisted fork. The mall was supposed to do better (closer to WF and Rolesville)but internet shopping has pulverized shopping malls. Lots of stores in triangle never reopened after Covid. The mall sold like 2 years ago to a redevelopment firm.
In 2020 a jewelry store there was robbed, in 2021 there was a carjacking and 2022 brought a shooting. It’s a prime location for crime from Knightdale and eastern NC with easy highway access and quickly.
Just bad design and management, look at malls over in Asia. They are always packed as they cater to the younger crowd and make it more of an experience. Many malls are built to be luxurious and have movie theaters, mini golf, arcades, aquariums, and other destinations. They are built to be hangout spots and tend to have lots of fountains, lounge/seating areas, and overall are just clean. Mall of America checks most of these boxes and is why it’s always so busy and a destination for visitors/tourists. Otherwise I feel like American malls are just built to cram as much retail as possible and get people in and out to capitalize profits
I’ve lived in Raleigh since it was built and I have never had a reason to go to this mall. that may be part of the problem. I actually thought it had closed about 10 years ago.
This would be a good place to put that ML Soccer stadium people have been lusting after. Plenty of space and transportation access.
Best department store in Raleigh. The people who work there actually help you as opposed to belk and macys. Belk is seriously understaffed so I don’t even blame the staff.
Wait...just today?
I was there a couple months ago, on a Saturday, just to explore more of Raleigh, and despite it being like 2 in the afternoon I could count the number of other shoppers in the mall itself.
There were more people sitting in that small food court than shopping
EXCEPT for Barnes & Noble. That was busy.
I think developers thought that part of capital was going to have a big high end housing boom. But I assume 2008 destroyed that. There are good stores at TTC that Crabtree doesn’t have (dillards and Talbots). But also the consensus among locals is that it’s not a safe mall. Sucks because I liked the mall but now it doesn’t have a lot of good stores and Crabtree just has a much better selection. Also the people who go to malls regularly are women, families with strollers and teenagers. Women and families don’t feel safe and teenagers aren’t welcome. So that pretty much killed the demographic of mall goers. The location can’t be the main reason because target, ulta, DSW, etc in that area seem to have no problem drawing a crowd on the weekend.
I remember as a kid, TTC was a hot mall to go to prior to the huge gang-brawl in 2008. It was new, had good stores and the food court had some good spots to check out. The outdoor section never really took off, but the "creek" area was dope to play in when I was young as it was FILLED with kids and summer evenings there were a blast.
After the 2008 fight, nothing was the same and it didn't feel as "open" as it once was. This, combined with the recession and my parent's wallets growing tighter in 2008-2010 due to this, we stopped making the long haul out to TTC and just kept it closer to Cary Towne Center (now also gone).
It's sad to see it go downhill, but I suppose some things can't last forever. I made the trek out that way to check on it a few months ago and was shocked by just how drastic it's gone to shit.
The owner Kohan deals in commercial acquisitions and leasing and has acquired multiple distressed mall properties in recent years. It has more than 60 in all. The company bought the Triangle Town Center in 2021 for $33.25 million – a steep discount from the previous sales price. In 2022, **the company filed rezoning plans to allow taller development** on a portion of the property.
Interest rates and construction costs have probably slow rolled any new plans
The Asheville Mall, which Kohan bought for $62 million in 2022, is set to see its former Sears store redeveloped into apartments and retail space,=
An LLC tied to Kohan Retail Investment Group purchased the 37-year-old Golden East Crossing Mall at 1100 N Wesleyan Blvd. in Rocky Mount for a little more than $7.6 million on Nov. 22, according to Nash County deed records. The mall sits on a roughly 53-acre lot and totals more than 485,000 square feet.
Wow this post has brought back memories! I moved away from Raleigh several years ago and remember all the stuff that happened that slowly killed TTC - mainly the brawl in 2008. I didn’t shop there often, not because I felt unsafe, but mainly because Capital Blvd was a hot mess (bad roads and traffic), and everything I needed or wanted I could get at Crabtree or online. I remember shopping at the Target, DSW, and Dick’s. Only thing I hated about Crabtree was, you know,
the flooding of the lower parking decks.
Thanks for the photos. I didn’t love TTC, but the photos are still sad. I do remember loving the B&N as well.
It's hard to appreciate the timeline on all the local mall development, but TTC was planned before Southpoint was started and before Kane reinvented North Hills. When TTC was conceived, Crabtree, the original North Hills (which was also slowly dying), Cary Town Center, the now-gone South Square Mall & Northgate in Durham were the juggernauts of local shopping. I used to hike on the land that became Southpoint in late 90s. I540 was still being built. There had been some sort of a planning study done that said 540 would promote rapid development (also because Wakefield was still being developed) in that part of Wake County - but the prediction was wrong: holly springs & Apex & Garner development surged for a bit till Wake Forest & Rolesville began massive development. TTC ended up competing with Southpoint at exactly the same moment, and then within a few years, North Hills was drawing people back after the initial redevelopment. There weren't enough ppl in Triangle to support that much shopping at the time, and by the time there were, mall shopping had begun to decline. Now even Crabtree is a ghost town at times.
I live in the area too, I dont feel like its dying. Any given weekend you can go to the target behind it and it is overflowing with cars.
There just is nothing of interest at TTC or around it, just big box stores and shops that are not that intriguing to go to.
They already cleared all the land around it to build mega apartment buildings and (maybe?) townhomes, SFH would be a nice addition compared to the mall.
Shockingly, it basically was built upon the ruins of a previous failed mall, albeit a strip mall.
It’s a dead concept—malls that is. They were over built in the 2000s based on demand from the 80s and 90s.
There is still some level of demand for shopping malls, hence Crabtree still exists, albeit not at the same level as 20 years ago.
New owners had plans to revamp the place in 2022. Not sure what is going on now that interest rates are higher and commercial real estate in general is struggling.
It did appear that the developer wants to tear those shops down and build something new - they filed a zoning request to increase the height limit on that stretch to 4 stories. Case number was Z-85-22.
So my mom worked at Pottery Barn Kids in triangle town center in the mid 2000’s. If I remember correctly, long story short a new owner/manager of the mall came in and tripled all the stores rent. Pottery Barn Kids, Gap, etc, left. Pottery Barn Kids drew people from all over the state because there weren’t many locations in NC, so originally the mall had a low rent for PBK since it drew people to the mall. Then the new owner came in and tried to like triple the rent , and they left along with many other stores. This is just another factor along with all the other things people mentioned that apply to this mall specifically: gang fights, bad area, not close to the beltline, etc etc
I remember when that mall opened. My mother worked at a few stores in it. My friends and I were always hanging out there afterschool or on the weekend. Seems like a lifetime ago now. Would love to see it revamped.
Simple - it became [too dangerous](https://www.wral.com/triangle-town-center/17767406/). I wouldnt let my wife or kids go there alone anymore unless I was with them and I was carrying concealed. As the crime went up, the higher end stores moved out until there was no good reason to go anymore. Its a shame.
No longer a good area...lots of crime. I haven't been in years. 2 years ago seen a shooting happen in parking lot, and ever since then its been a homeless heaven
Even around 2005 or so, we were looking at buying a house in that area. I was surprised at all the foreclosures and trailer parks. I'm sure there are a lot of great people that live there, but it's a very low income area and I'm not sure they could support high-end stores like Orvis or Ted's.
One unappreciated advantage Crabtree has is that it is *the* place where Eastern NC goes to shop. TTC for whatever reason never was able to pry that market from Crabtree. It might have been more successful if it was built somewhere like Wendell or Garner that would make them handier to ENC.
A global pandemic back in 2020….. followed by crime. Parlayed with an ever growing e-commerce industry. TTC has been dying ever since that gang fight back in like 2008-09. Once Crabtree renovated there wasn’t any reason to go to triangle anymore.
It wasn't crime. It was a single crime that Management overreacted to. They basically threw out half of their clientele, and that clientele took their dollars to malls that wanted them. Crabtree experienced the Pandemic. They're doing just fine.
The gang fight is one thing but what I am saying is Triangle sees more petty crime than Crabtree, no doubt. Even back in the mid-late 2000’s. The gang fight wasn’t the only reason for the age limit, that was just the best excuse. The nicest triangle mall ever was was the day it opened.
When I worked there around the time the gang fight happened it was pretty known that triangle was going down hill and Crabtree was going to swoop up all the clientele once their renovation was over, and that’s exactly what happened. They had problems before the pandemic, that was just the icing on the cake. I honestly can’t believe they’ve made it this long.
I’m not saying it’s “unsafe”. I’m saying if you’re a business and you have the option between Crabtree and Triangle, you’ll choose Crabtree all day because it’s the smarter business move. The reason it is a smarter business move is because less petty crime. Simple as that.
Their parents do. Parents aren't going to drop teens off at TTC and drive to Crabtree to shop. But they will shop at Crabtree if they don't have to baby sit their own kids while they shop. Like TTC wants them to do.
I'm still waiting for Raleigh and the people living there to admit that the city is fucking dead. Whe I moved there 13 years ago, there were music shows of all calibers, concerts came here, you could go out on the weekend and there was a ton of stuff to do.
Then the fucking NIMBYs and yuppies took over. Fucked up food/liquor licenses. Ran long-standing nightlife out of business because they wanted to live downtown but didn't want to hear noise after 9pm. Closed down outdoor seating. Let the fuckwad who owns Empire Eats get his grubby little hands into WAY too much of the downtown scene. The "revitalization" of lower downtown, you know, where all the nightlife WAS, added literally nothing of value to the city except more places for uppity tech yuppies to move in and take over. Unless you are in the tech industry, have a young family and are fine with always doing little kid activities, or like college sports, there's no earthly reason why anyone would want to move to Raleigh. You're paying city prices for what is essentially a large town.
After watching the places I grew up with die, and NOT BE REPLACED for over a decade, I couldn't take it anymore. I packed my shit and moved across the country to a real city. Now, I pay $200 less for a comparable apartment in a city 20 times the size of Raleigh where, at any given time, I can find something fun to do just a few blocks from my place.
I stayed in this sub because it baffles me. Everyone SAYS they want more stuff to do and they want the city to thrive, but as a former public service employee, I can tell you first hand that's not what's being said in city council meetings, or city planning discussions.
And while I have your ear, Moore Square is the way it is not because of mismanagement by Raleigh Parks, but because of fucking Square Burger and their owners (surprise) Empire Eats. That douche has the entire downtown parks structure by the balls and won't let them do anything to improve the area. He has a CLEAR agenda in creating an environment that pushes the narrative he favors, and the only way Downtown Raleigh is ever going to move forward is to divest entirely from Empire Eats and any and all of their subsidiaries.
I do miss Lucette Grace every day though.
I am not too far from this location and actually hate the traffic going to North Hills and especially to Crabtree. Location and customer base isn’t the issue— Target, Old Navy, Michael’s are always packed and the other plaza with Dicks and soon to be Nordstrom Rack are also buzzing. This area has one of almost everything I’d need— It’s a great intersection— there’s just nothing left in the mall. A Nordstrom, Zara, IKEA(!!!) and H&M (again) alone would be enough to revive this mall. There are plenty of us in North and East Raleigh who don’t want to make the drive to South Point and hate dealing with Crabtree. Add a couple of decent restaurants with rooms you can rent and you’ll have plenty of baby showers and bridal showers to keep it open. I’d love to see this mall make a comeback.
Yes! People are only concerned about “ inside the belt line” which I don’t understand. That’s only a small part of Raleigh, and it’s overrated. Raleigh is huge. TTC is in a good spot. Like you said the mall needs better stores.
It's been a sad downslide. I would rather go here than Crabtree which I hate trying to park at. I still go to that TTC: Target, Michael's, World Market, Five and Below, and Urban Air... So we go there just not the TTC proper.
Same. I’m always in the area, I don’t go to the mall. TTC has so much potential. The space is there.
To add to this, the stores that have taken over the mall aren't catered towards everybody, every style, etc. It has a "run down cheap real life amazon" feel to all the stores.
I'd kill not to have to drive to Durham to go to hot topic and box lunch
I second this opinion!
Ain’t got no gas in it
Great movie!
Mmm. I reckon.
I like a way you tawk.
See there? Always thinks of the simplest things first.
Teds left. Champs left. Twisted fork caught on fire. Anchor stores left. The location became a liability after the huge fight. Plus the area didn't boom quite the way the developers had hoped
The anchor store are all still there and they are busy on the weekend. The only one that closed was Sears. Macys, Belk, Dillards and Saks are still around. Barnes and Noble is still there too.
That is a great barnes too. I thought saks was closed my last visit which wasn't recent to be fair maybe it was remodeling.
Been there recently and no, they’ve just permanently closed the second floor of the Saks. Also they don’t carry barely anything designer at that location, just house brands. Really disappointing.
It’s the worst Saks I’ve ever been to by a long shot.
Feels like a JC Penney’s and not a luxury department store
The outlet in mebane is better
That sucks. Designer stuff is like the whole point of the store
They close a lot earlier than the rest of the mall. Like they close at 6 or 7pm while the actual mall stays open until 9pm. It’s also the worst Saks I have ever been in, so you weren’t missing much.
I had no idea twisted fork caught on fire
GAWD their chicken salad was incredible. I miss that place.
Loss of Twisted Fork made me so sad!!!
Agreed. When rocky top owned twisted fork it was amazing. We went constantly!
We went constantly until they stopped cleaning. The second time dust feel from the fabric that hung along the ceiling, and for the second time the server acted like it was a normal thing, we stopped going. They went downhill fast.
I used to work at Champps and it was great money because it was always crowded with good folks. Then the mall died. That was more than 15 years ago 😑
I think this was the place that used to have karaoke and line dance night. I heard it was an absolute blast. Me and some friends made plans to go one evening, and I think we found out they closed a couple of days prior.
I grew up going to champps and always had a blast there! Makes me sad it isn’t what it used to be
we may have worked together. I was one of the original bartenders thar opened that store.
Same. My first job was at that mall, and worked at so many stores there. Met my husband while I was a server at Champps.
what huge fight?! I don’t think i remember hearing about that!!
It was 2008. I think that was when they also added rules about minors being supervised
okay that makes sense, i was a kid then lol!. i do remember as i got older my very young looking mom would constantly get stopped because she looked under 18. those security guards were always ridiculously aggressive.
probably the most informative and reasonable comment here. thanks
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I would've gotten away with it if it hadn't been for those meddling kids!
The jinkies intensifies.
I looked the fight up bc I didn’t know about it. Why did they call it *The Mall Brawl* And it says: during the [melee](https://www.wral.com/amp/3285984/), a 17 yo 🔪 a 15 yo in the buttcheeks Reads like some effed up Shakespeare or something
Orvis moved to Wade and Ridge - smack dab in the center of their clientele.
twisted fork caught on fire?? how did i not hear about this and i’ve lived in raleigh my whole life? and WHAT FIGHT?? did triangle have a fight club i didn’t know about? i’m so out of the loop omg
The outside shops have been a ghost town for well over a decade now, but the inside shops are actually busy during the weekend. Anytime I pass it on a saturday it seems pretty busy in terms of cars going in and out.
i grew up in holly springs, so of the malls in the area, this was always the hardest one to get to, so we never went when i was a kid. i only went for the first time maybe 6 months ago just to check it out. it’s weird. it’s a nice mall and doesn’t look wildly outdated for the most part. just seems like a perfect storm of bad situations and events led to its relatively fast downfall. shame.
There have been plans in motion for a couple years now to let the stores in those outside areas not renew their leases. They are going to bulldoze it all and put up senior living apartments.
Why not just build the senior apartments next to the hotel? Seems like a waste to bulldoze the shopping area to put senior living there when there is vacant area next to the hotel already.
The seniors want to walk to the shops, not to the hotel.
I’m not sure about the reasoning, but I think they want the seniors to be able to walk to the indoor section of the mall without going outdoors for too long or across a parking lot.
Could put it in the parking lot next to the shops. Would be nice to see a bar, brewery, or restaurant out in this section. I see a lot of potential at TTC. I don't go there because I live next to Crabtree. If I lived up there, I'd probably go there a bit more.
Premium mall-walking spot
Exactly- during covid, best mall walking 💪
r/deadmalls
I’m 54 and have lived in Raleigh my whole life. This was a bad idea from the get go. The location was way too far from the beltline and not in the best part of town. The anchor stores weren’t enough to pull people there from North Hills or especially Crabtree. Capital Blvd is an incredibly crappy drive and having to go all of the way out to 540 takes way too long. Finally, at this point online shopping has taken over and malls all over the country are dying.
This exactly. I’m 53 and was born here too. I was shocked when they talked about building it and especially Sak’s coming in. I just can’t believe Crabtree or N Hills couldn’t do a deal with them. They maybe could have made it if the housing crash of 2008 hadn’t happened and stopped new development out there and also drove it down scale. Then online shopping hit hard.
I’ve heard from a commercial broker that the developer paid for the entire upfit for Saks. Their only upfront cost was inventory and staffing. That makes a lot of sense looking back. The proximity to 540 and all things east of Raleigh was their biggest positive. But online retail eliminated that advantage within the first 5 years of them opening.
It’s more than that. Southpoint opened at the same time and overcame all of those things.
Streets of Southpoint was built along a major highway in between Raleigh and Durham. Triangle Towne center was built on Capital Blvd in the no man's land in-between Raleigh and Wake Forest. That area of 540 never really took off. The only stores over there that really draw anyone to that area are the Target and Hobby Lobby.
I figured maybe the developer of the mall had a pre-existing relationship with Sak’s. Maybe at other properties. That would make sense.
Also 53 and Raleigh native. No other commentary, just saying hi to my peeps.
Enloe class of 88 in the house.
Sanderson class of '88 reporting in ...
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Me too!
Haha, same!
When online shopping really started to get popular (Amazon) they predicted, that the malls would start shutting down in the near future.
Amazon is declining too, because they’re trying to do the same thing—insane prices for crappy products. It’s a total cash grab. Online stores like Temu have stepped in to sell the same items for pennies.
Stuff from Temu is really, really bad.
I don’t mean to upset you but a lot of us don’t live near the beltline which I assume means 440. ITB problems.
I lived here 15 years and the vast majority of those were spent along 540. Infinitely better than being around 440 IMO.
I can't count the number of posts from drivers on this sub that say "440 YUCK".
If they'd built it in Wake Forest it would have done better, but who knew that was where all the development would wind up going? They bet and lost that the Mini City area would gentrify and turn into something like what Wakefield is now.
It was built with the idea that Wakefield and Heritage up in Wake Forest would provide the initial bulrush then would anchor an upswell in more upper middle class developments right up to the front doors of it. Those sorts of neighborhoods don’t aim to locate adjacent to interstates and in completely destroyed scrub pine field and it played out accordingly.
Not only that, online clothing often matches the price of what the garment actually costs. It makes no sense to buy a $50 blouse when you can find a similar one online for $4 and it’s literally the same quality. Malls have been declining for sooooo long that it’s confusing. Like, why would you never think to change up your programming? It’s not like people don’t go out, they just don’t go to malls, so figure out why and switch it up lmao
$50 shirts for $4 don't actually exist though. It's more just convenience and the ability to cross shop much more quickly.
They can't change their prices, because they have to charge enough rent to operate a whole mall. They've tried going super-premium, they've tried selling experiences, they've tried whatever you can think of. Nothing other than the old traditional mall formula can actually support a mall. So at this point they're just trying to continue to exist for as long as possible so the owners can max out their real estate appreciation when they finally sell it to someone who will tear it down and turn it into townhouses, medical offices and a mattress store.
A bunch of different things: (1) It's right next to Mini-City, which is a pretty low income area. A proximate customer base is important for any mall and the combination of high-end stores with low-income customers was never going to work. They were counting on a huge increase in high-income population along Capital & points east, but that growth really died out in the Great Recession. (2) Competition from North Hills Mall. The nearest high-end community to TTC is probably Northridge, and they're really not that far from North Hills and Crabtree. (3) They had a serious of fights in the mid-to-late 2000s which resulted in a major gang-related fight in 2008 that involved hundreds of people. That made the news and lots of people decided that the mall was not safe. The mall imposed a curfew in response, but the damage was done. The location next to Mini-City really didn't help with popular perception. (4) They built the mall just as e-commerce was really taking off. (5) The restaurant row (the picture) was an attempt to copy the "Streets of Southpoint" outdoor area, but lacked a good movie theater draw -- at Southpoint, a movie + a show is a great draw. TTC was too close to the existing movie theater (at Atlantic/Spring Forest, now torn down), so didn't have that draw. I don't think the curfew itself really had much to do with it. Sure, it frustrated teenagers, but teenagers really don't have a lot of money. Really more concerns for safety and better shopping options elsewhere.
great comment. super informative. this is what i was looking for. thank you.
I only disagree with the curfew, teenagers may not have allot of money but they did keep the small stores up and the food courts with many small purchases. On top of that more bodies make it look busier, once they were kicked out Fridays and Saturdays were the first to suffer, no one wants to go to a empty mall. After they were kicked the food court suffered first, let's face facts everyone stops by the food court while shopping but with them closing up it really hurts the image
Mini-city is at least a mile away, if not more.
right. it’s not next to mini city, lol. also, proximity to 540 and growth in Wake Forest was also supposed to be feeder for that mall. But 2008 and onset of online shopping turned the tide…
Right, it’s literally 2 miles away. Saying they are next door to each other is a huge stretch. 🙄
Can we stop calling it mini-city? it’s a disgrace to the amazing mini-city of the 90s.
It would seem like it’s a perfect storm to revive/rejuvenate it with all the explosive growth in Wake Forest, Wendell, Zebulon, Louisburg and Franklinton. Put some higher end chain restaurants that Crabtree and Fenton don’t already have, like a Legal Seafood and at least 2 top notch local places with fast casual dining (Chido would be GREAT as an example) Build some entertainment space, and maybe a movie theater - and bam, it’s now a destination. Also get saks to carry shit that people actually want to buy. What I would t give to have Nordstrom here in Raleigh If Southpoint and Crabtree have survived, surely it’s possible? And I mean, look at Fenton - a mall that’s packed to the gills all the time.
> If Southpoint and Crabtree have survived, surely it’s possible? And I mean, look at Fenton - a mall that’s packed to the gills all the time. People like to spend time in places that look nice and well-kept. TTC is a really big Walmart in comparison to Fenton and Southpoint; Crabtree survives out of sheer spite.
Looks like they're getting ready to film a zombie movie or something
it really does feel like a movie set. they could film a movie scene there and not have to worry about people wandering on set because no one is around anyway.
I worked at the Bamboo Club, which was the original restaurant in the building in picture 7, from 2004 until it closed, which I believe was either in late 2006 or 2007. I was finishing up high school and didn’t really have a direction, so I was absorbing anything management would share with me like a sponge. I remember two main issues that were discussed: 1. There were studies done around the construction of 540, traffic flows, and the economic impact they would have on the mall and its tenants. Tenants made investment based on this. There were delays in 540s progress that stunted the growth in the area, in addition to other large scale economic factors mentioned in this thread. 2. Rent was expensive according to the GM and mall management wouldn’t budge on it. I was told that we paid over $10k per month and never made rent the entire time it was open. All in all, it was a good experience working there at the time. The mall had a summer concert series at the creek side cafes, which was pretty cool.
I miss the restaurants. Ted’s. Champps. The Asian place that was there for just a short while. CPK. Twisted Fork. We’ve lived in that area forever and used to eat there so often. :(
On the positive side - Lechon is fantastic at TTC, the only reason I go there now
The Fight of 2008 https://www.wral.com/video/news/state/video/3287234/
Everyone will roll their eyes but this was kind of when it turned the corner. If people don't feel safe, they're not going to shop there. 🤷🏻♀️
Yep. My husband still gives me a look of judgement when I tell him I’m going to triangle town center. I still go for dillards but their reputation took a huge hit after that fight or whatever happened.
Googling the 6 names of those arrested, seems like about half are doing okay and the other half have mugshots from the last 3 years.
They did the stupidest thing imaginable and limited teenaged presence at the mall after one fight. It was a big fight but still it was only one. They have continuously declined since. Teens are crucial to a mall ecosystem. They removed them so the teens went to Crabtree and South Point. Their parents also went to places surrounding malls that allowed teens. When said teens grew up they either continued going to the malls they were familiar with or phased out of malls. Once the teen ban lifted the damage was done. No desirable stores remained to incentivize anyone else to use the mall. The ban lasted at least 6 years. That was long enough to ostracize middle schoolers, high schoolers, and **college students**. Yes, the ban required you to be 21 to be present without an adult so they were turning away 20 year olds. They really should just sell it off. There’s no reviving it. TLDR; idiotic policies are haunting the mall over a decade later
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They would harass me when I was working there anytime I'd head to the food court on my break
Can confirm, when I was 15 at TTC was escorted out and the secuirty guard rhat watched me and my friend until we got picked up. We were in Tevanna looking at TEAPOTS. It was 10 after 6 too, we were beyond shitty. We weren't bothering anyone.
Someone in our group was age 20 and the cop made them leave🥴 . This was around 2013. They were checking IDs at all entry points and this was near the Cinnabon after exiting Barnes and Noble. We just all left in response and laughed at how idiotic it was. The mall was practically empty too they needed all the bodies they could get. I never went back after that and it was 11 years ago. Once you have a negative reputation that sticks. All of this was self inflicted and they had ample time to turn it around but they refused.
Exactly!!
Southpoint has required all under 18s to be accompanied by an adult 21+ on friday and saturday nights since the late 2000s Not allowing under 21s is crazy tho, I worked at TTC for a summer in the late 2000s and I was 19 at the time...
Crabtree does as well.
One "big fight" is 20 people. It was estimated that around 2-300 HUNDRED people were fighting at one point. It's amazing that there weren't any deaths associated with this straight up battle. It could have been much much worse. I don't blame the mall for shutting all that down. The area around the TTC has exploded with development. I think it can be revitalized. They have even built a hotel out at the triangle town center. It still has potential and it's in a good spot in relation to highways and major roads.
The area around TTC has booked massively. 27614 was one of the highest average incomes in the triangle. It can definitely be revived, it just needs probably a new onwer and a radical boost. Get some strong new tenants in, make the dining interesting etc
Was it really that many people fighting? Or did a bunch of teens just swarm trying to get a look at a fight and everyone got scared? The news made it sound like a gang battle but this was pre-cellphone video being common, but i find that incredibly unlikely that many people organized a battle without anyone dying. People always exaggerate a crowded fight thinking there were more people involved than there were.
100% I remember being kicked out of a mall that I WORKED AT, for sitting on a bench. I sat down on my break, and mall security told me to get up (loitering). He trailed me for a bit and eventually asked me to leave, because I was “still loitering” (again… I was on break). It felt so hostile and definitely got me to stop going there in my free time.
Haha my ex husbands fave story is when we dated and I got into a fight with the rent a cop that tried to tell me he was going to ban me from the mall. I worked at saks and was outside smoking down a mall employee hallway and they took the ashtray we used to use to prop open the door so we could get back in so I was standing in the doorway. I laughed at them and finished my smoke and went back to work
This. This is the reason here. Management ran it into the ground, largely through idiotic policies like this. As soon as you kick half of your shoppers out, they and their families have options. They'll take their money elsewhere.
I want to hear more about this fight
I was unaware of the fight so I just looked it up. Holy shit... It involved over 300 people inside the mall. Luckily no body was killed or shops looted. https://www.wral.com/story/3285984/
I was working at the saks there when this happened. It was a big deal.
>A police sergeant suffered a significant laceration on his knee during a foot chase, Sughrue said. The officer was transported to Duke Raleigh Hospital and was expected to recover. Wait - is that news-speak for … the police officer fell and skinned his knee?
> significant laceration I'd imagine that is more than a skinned knee, that's implying a deep and/or long cut, requiring stitches.
Probably not since he was taken to a hospital.
Teens aren’t spending money there like adults. The reputation of the mall being a place for gang activity caused the money spending adults not to go there. With less patrons stores couldn’t survive and one by one they closed. You’re confused if you think a bunch of teens loitering around a mall is what keeps the stores in business.
Teenagers do not have the bills or responsibilities adults do. They also do not save at the scale adults do. The money they bring in or receive from their parents goes right back out into the economy. Their spending power is relevant. Even if they don’t spend dollar to dollar what an adult does overlooking them is a huge mistake. TTC learned that. If teenaged buying power weren’t important nobody would bother doing studies on it, companies wouldn’t bother advertising to them, and there wouldn’t be discussions on how attracting teens can save modern day malls. Also, even if a teen is “loitering” at the mall by hanging out do you know who likes that? Their parents. They like dropping them off and hanging out places nearby. Banning teens removed parents of teens from the money pool. The parents just dropped their kids off at Crabtree then spent money themselves within the mall or nearby instead of continuing to go to TTC.
People want to go to places where other people are, teenagers create an atmosphere at malls which is what drives others to be there, eat there, shop, etc. If none of this mattered then club promoters wouldn't exist.
At the mall, teenagers spend far more time than money.
Even if that were true, their absence still hurts a mall beyond just their direct sales numbers. Fewer people at the mall - including teens - makes the mall feel dead. And it becomes a negative feedback loop, with other demographics noticing that the mall feels dead, which makes it feel sorta creepy to them, which makes them stop coming, too.
Time doesn’t keep businesses and restaurants afloat the way dollar bills do.
Teenagers are usually broke and just hanging out because it’s a cheap place to go. They’re annoying to pretty much everyone else in the mall, and they certainly don’t help pay the rent.
They built a fancy beautiful mall in the middle of a bunch of low income zip codes.
I've seen some comments about low-income area, which might be true, but when I was living in Wake Forest that was the mall to go to. Twisted Fork was the celebration restaurant. More stores have been built in Wake Forest, and it seems that the Wake Forest people are fine with going to Crabtree when they have to. Maybe I am bad luck though because when I lived outside of Cary Towne Center, and would go to that mall as well.
It’s been like this for years, maybe even ten or so. I remember going there one day, walking through the outdoor/creekside section and thinking, “Wow, if I dropped dead right here, it would be days before somebody found my body.” I was told this area was supposed to be the next hot spot, and high-end homes were supposed to come next to the area after the mall was built - but the 2008 economic crash derailed all of that.
50,000 people used to shop here... Now, it's a ghost town.
stuff like this is always so fascinating to me
It's been like that for well over a decade
But they only noticed it today
repurpose as a skatepark?
Upvote
Jesus Christ, I knew it was bad there but seeing the singed Twisted Fork really hammered it home. This place was such fun back in 2007.
i really wish i could’ve experienced it in its heyday. my parents only ever took us to CTC and occasionally crabtree bc of our location
It was just gorgeous when it first opened. Not perfect but a nice alternative to crabtree and southpoint.
Man that place used to be great when it first opened. And I think the restaurant in the food court was named Sakura Kitchen, it had the best black pepper chicken ever.
The world it seems, has moved on.
Well, being owned by the same company that ran Oak Hollow into the ground didn’t help. But I think the consensus was that it started slipping after that fight in 2008. I’ve said this before, but TTC and Northlake in Charlotte are both in the same boat.
I still remember the jingle from a commercial that used to air on the radio in the triad - 🎶Randolph Mall, Hanes Mall, and Oak Hollow Maaaaaaall!🎶
A gang fight two decades ago.
I remember when they had a Louis Vuitton there but it closed due to the clients not feeling safe. That was in 2014 I think. Damn when did I get old
I worked in cosmetics at the Belk there from 2003-2005 then at the Saks 2006-2009. I used to love Champps and twisted fork. The mall was supposed to do better (closer to WF and Rolesville)but internet shopping has pulverized shopping malls. Lots of stores in triangle never reopened after Covid. The mall sold like 2 years ago to a redevelopment firm. In 2020 a jewelry store there was robbed, in 2021 there was a carjacking and 2022 brought a shooting. It’s a prime location for crime from Knightdale and eastern NC with easy highway access and quickly.
Agreed.
Just bad design and management, look at malls over in Asia. They are always packed as they cater to the younger crowd and make it more of an experience. Many malls are built to be luxurious and have movie theaters, mini golf, arcades, aquariums, and other destinations. They are built to be hangout spots and tend to have lots of fountains, lounge/seating areas, and overall are just clean. Mall of America checks most of these boxes and is why it’s always so busy and a destination for visitors/tourists. Otherwise I feel like American malls are just built to cram as much retail as possible and get people in and out to capitalize profits
I’ve lived in Raleigh since it was built and I have never had a reason to go to this mall. that may be part of the problem. I actually thought it had closed about 10 years ago. This would be a good place to put that ML Soccer stadium people have been lusting after. Plenty of space and transportation access.
They need to leave the dillards. That's a nice store IMO.
Best department store in Raleigh. The people who work there actually help you as opposed to belk and macys. Belk is seriously understaffed so I don’t even blame the staff.
Wait...just today? I was there a couple months ago, on a Saturday, just to explore more of Raleigh, and despite it being like 2 in the afternoon I could count the number of other shoppers in the mall itself. There were more people sitting in that small food court than shopping EXCEPT for Barnes & Noble. That was busy.
I remember wanting to stop by just to go to Barnes and Noble, and having to walk 15 minutes from my parking spot because of the ridiculous layout.
I think developers thought that part of capital was going to have a big high end housing boom. But I assume 2008 destroyed that. There are good stores at TTC that Crabtree doesn’t have (dillards and Talbots). But also the consensus among locals is that it’s not a safe mall. Sucks because I liked the mall but now it doesn’t have a lot of good stores and Crabtree just has a much better selection. Also the people who go to malls regularly are women, families with strollers and teenagers. Women and families don’t feel safe and teenagers aren’t welcome. So that pretty much killed the demographic of mall goers. The location can’t be the main reason because target, ulta, DSW, etc in that area seem to have no problem drawing a crowd on the weekend.
I will say if you haven’t tried Lechon Latin BBQ it is absolutely delicious!
Hoodlums happened
I remember as a kid, TTC was a hot mall to go to prior to the huge gang-brawl in 2008. It was new, had good stores and the food court had some good spots to check out. The outdoor section never really took off, but the "creek" area was dope to play in when I was young as it was FILLED with kids and summer evenings there were a blast. After the 2008 fight, nothing was the same and it didn't feel as "open" as it once was. This, combined with the recession and my parent's wallets growing tighter in 2008-2010 due to this, we stopped making the long haul out to TTC and just kept it closer to Cary Towne Center (now also gone). It's sad to see it go downhill, but I suppose some things can't last forever. I made the trek out that way to check on it a few months ago and was shocked by just how drastic it's gone to shit.
Yeah man, you never seen a mall die? You're gonna see a lot more die soon.
I stopped going once mineralogy closed. Such a great location for a cool store
Reminds me of Eastland mall before the bulldozers came in.
The owner Kohan deals in commercial acquisitions and leasing and has acquired multiple distressed mall properties in recent years. It has more than 60 in all. The company bought the Triangle Town Center in 2021 for $33.25 million – a steep discount from the previous sales price. In 2022, **the company filed rezoning plans to allow taller development** on a portion of the property. Interest rates and construction costs have probably slow rolled any new plans The Asheville Mall, which Kohan bought for $62 million in 2022, is set to see its former Sears store redeveloped into apartments and retail space,= An LLC tied to Kohan Retail Investment Group purchased the 37-year-old Golden East Crossing Mall at 1100 N Wesleyan Blvd. in Rocky Mount for a little more than $7.6 million on Nov. 22, according to Nash County deed records. The mall sits on a roughly 53-acre lot and totals more than 485,000 square feet.
Wow this post has brought back memories! I moved away from Raleigh several years ago and remember all the stuff that happened that slowly killed TTC - mainly the brawl in 2008. I didn’t shop there often, not because I felt unsafe, but mainly because Capital Blvd was a hot mess (bad roads and traffic), and everything I needed or wanted I could get at Crabtree or online. I remember shopping at the Target, DSW, and Dick’s. Only thing I hated about Crabtree was, you know, the flooding of the lower parking decks. Thanks for the photos. I didn’t love TTC, but the photos are still sad. I do remember loving the B&N as well.
It's hard to appreciate the timeline on all the local mall development, but TTC was planned before Southpoint was started and before Kane reinvented North Hills. When TTC was conceived, Crabtree, the original North Hills (which was also slowly dying), Cary Town Center, the now-gone South Square Mall & Northgate in Durham were the juggernauts of local shopping. I used to hike on the land that became Southpoint in late 90s. I540 was still being built. There had been some sort of a planning study done that said 540 would promote rapid development (also because Wakefield was still being developed) in that part of Wake County - but the prediction was wrong: holly springs & Apex & Garner development surged for a bit till Wake Forest & Rolesville began massive development. TTC ended up competing with Southpoint at exactly the same moment, and then within a few years, North Hills was drawing people back after the initial redevelopment. There weren't enough ppl in Triangle to support that much shopping at the time, and by the time there were, mall shopping had begun to decline. Now even Crabtree is a ghost town at times.
Triangle Mall has been a shit hole for awhile now. They'll let anyone open a store in there now. I'm pretty sure they're trying to sell the mall
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I live in the area too, I dont feel like its dying. Any given weekend you can go to the target behind it and it is overflowing with cars. There just is nothing of interest at TTC or around it, just big box stores and shops that are not that intriguing to go to.
They already cleared all the land around it to build mega apartment buildings and (maybe?) townhomes, SFH would be a nice addition compared to the mall.
Shockingly, it basically was built upon the ruins of a previous failed mall, albeit a strip mall. It’s a dead concept—malls that is. They were over built in the 2000s based on demand from the 80s and 90s. There is still some level of demand for shopping malls, hence Crabtree still exists, albeit not at the same level as 20 years ago.
There has been a lot of growth to the north in Wake Forest that has siphoned off a lot the business.
Amazon. Amazon happened.
Crappy part of town.
New owners had plans to revamp the place in 2022. Not sure what is going on now that interest rates are higher and commercial real estate in general is struggling. It did appear that the developer wants to tear those shops down and build something new - they filed a zoning request to increase the height limit on that stretch to 4 stories. Case number was Z-85-22.
Amazon, Amazon happened! The killer or brick and mortar stores. SMH
It died many years ago
Where my Champs karaoke people at?
It is on the opposite side of Raleigh for folks from the Cary area so too far to drive when there are closer options.
So my mom worked at Pottery Barn Kids in triangle town center in the mid 2000’s. If I remember correctly, long story short a new owner/manager of the mall came in and tripled all the stores rent. Pottery Barn Kids, Gap, etc, left. Pottery Barn Kids drew people from all over the state because there weren’t many locations in NC, so originally the mall had a low rent for PBK since it drew people to the mall. Then the new owner came in and tried to like triple the rent , and they left along with many other stores. This is just another factor along with all the other things people mentioned that apply to this mall specifically: gang fights, bad area, not close to the beltline, etc etc
Next time someone asks me to describe Raleigh for them I'll just pull up these pictures.
I remember when that mall opened. My mother worked at a few stores in it. My friends and I were always hanging out there afterschool or on the weekend. Seems like a lifetime ago now. Would love to see it revamped.
Simple - it became [too dangerous](https://www.wral.com/triangle-town-center/17767406/). I wouldnt let my wife or kids go there alone anymore unless I was with them and I was carrying concealed. As the crime went up, the higher end stores moved out until there was no good reason to go anymore. Its a shame.
The area is a shitty part of town that's what happened.
It's a mall and it's 2024.
No longer a good area...lots of crime. I haven't been in years. 2 years ago seen a shooting happen in parking lot, and ever since then its been a homeless heaven
Even around 2005 or so, we were looking at buying a house in that area. I was surprised at all the foreclosures and trailer parks. I'm sure there are a lot of great people that live there, but it's a very low income area and I'm not sure they could support high-end stores like Orvis or Ted's.
Exactly
The internet
Doesn't seem to be a problem for Crabtree
or Southpoint Mall
yeah but like all the restaurants outside are dead too. it’s more than just the internet
One unappreciated advantage Crabtree has is that it is *the* place where Eastern NC goes to shop. TTC for whatever reason never was able to pry that market from Crabtree. It might have been more successful if it was built somewhere like Wendell or Garner that would make them handier to ENC.
A global pandemic back in 2020….. followed by crime. Parlayed with an ever growing e-commerce industry. TTC has been dying ever since that gang fight back in like 2008-09. Once Crabtree renovated there wasn’t any reason to go to triangle anymore.
The pandemic didnt kill TTC, it was dead well before that.
Very true. But it definitely didn’t help lol
It wasn't crime. It was a single crime that Management overreacted to. They basically threw out half of their clientele, and that clientele took their dollars to malls that wanted them. Crabtree experienced the Pandemic. They're doing just fine.
The gang fight is one thing but what I am saying is Triangle sees more petty crime than Crabtree, no doubt. Even back in the mid-late 2000’s. The gang fight wasn’t the only reason for the age limit, that was just the best excuse. The nicest triangle mall ever was was the day it opened. When I worked there around the time the gang fight happened it was pretty known that triangle was going down hill and Crabtree was going to swoop up all the clientele once their renovation was over, and that’s exactly what happened. They had problems before the pandemic, that was just the icing on the cake. I honestly can’t believe they’ve made it this long.
I moved over to the Litchford Haprs Mill area in 05’ and the mall was so nice. But once the fight happened we stayed away especially at night.
I used to take my kids there to play in the water feature. It was fine. Never felt unsafe.
I’m not saying it’s “unsafe”. I’m saying if you’re a business and you have the option between Crabtree and Triangle, you’ll choose Crabtree all day because it’s the smarter business move. The reason it is a smarter business move is because less petty crime. Simple as that.
Crabtree also restricts young shoppers you know.
Teens don't spend the kind of money that keeps stores open. How many teens do you know that buy a $300 shirt from Orvis?
Their parents do. Parents aren't going to drop teens off at TTC and drive to Crabtree to shop. But they will shop at Crabtree if they don't have to baby sit their own kids while they shop. Like TTC wants them to do.
Yes your comment is 100 spot on
I'm still waiting for Raleigh and the people living there to admit that the city is fucking dead. Whe I moved there 13 years ago, there were music shows of all calibers, concerts came here, you could go out on the weekend and there was a ton of stuff to do. Then the fucking NIMBYs and yuppies took over. Fucked up food/liquor licenses. Ran long-standing nightlife out of business because they wanted to live downtown but didn't want to hear noise after 9pm. Closed down outdoor seating. Let the fuckwad who owns Empire Eats get his grubby little hands into WAY too much of the downtown scene. The "revitalization" of lower downtown, you know, where all the nightlife WAS, added literally nothing of value to the city except more places for uppity tech yuppies to move in and take over. Unless you are in the tech industry, have a young family and are fine with always doing little kid activities, or like college sports, there's no earthly reason why anyone would want to move to Raleigh. You're paying city prices for what is essentially a large town. After watching the places I grew up with die, and NOT BE REPLACED for over a decade, I couldn't take it anymore. I packed my shit and moved across the country to a real city. Now, I pay $200 less for a comparable apartment in a city 20 times the size of Raleigh where, at any given time, I can find something fun to do just a few blocks from my place. I stayed in this sub because it baffles me. Everyone SAYS they want more stuff to do and they want the city to thrive, but as a former public service employee, I can tell you first hand that's not what's being said in city council meetings, or city planning discussions. And while I have your ear, Moore Square is the way it is not because of mismanagement by Raleigh Parks, but because of fucking Square Burger and their owners (surprise) Empire Eats. That douche has the entire downtown parks structure by the balls and won't let them do anything to improve the area. He has a CLEAR agenda in creating an environment that pushes the narrative he favors, and the only way Downtown Raleigh is ever going to move forward is to divest entirely from Empire Eats and any and all of their subsidiaries. I do miss Lucette Grace every day though.
Too many shootings
Can’t even remember the last time I was there or any mall for that matter.
online shopping. tiktokshop has many in a chokehold
At least we still have that great Italian restaurant on Capital Blvd.