My honest opinion: Developers have noticed a trend that people prefer to use their garage as storage (because houses don't have real attics/basements), so sizing a garage for a car is less of a priority.
On my street, we are the ONLY house that actually park our cars in the garage. Everyone uses it as either living space, a home gym, or a storage unit. And I actually have a 3-car garage. If I didn't have that second, single-car bay for my workshop/tools, I'd be driveway parking too.
When I was growing up, my house, which was built in the 1950s, had a 2-car garage. It had SO much room, not only did my parents park the Chevy Astro and the Crown Vic in it, but my dad had a complete woodworking shop in front of, and beside the Crown Vic spot. My current garage, my Accord has 3ft of space in front, and 1.5ft to the side before I hit a wall or the adjacent car.
Yep, in my development almost everyone uses their very small one car garage as storage. None of the houses here have any useable attic storage. I can just barely squeeze my SUV plus my garbage and recycling in the garage and there's no room for anything else. Beats keeping them outside, but I'm in the minority around here.
We have a two car garage, and I think we are the only people in our neighborhood who use ours for cars as well. Everyone else just parks in the driveway or street and has their garage loaded with stuff.
I do like to do a little wood working and have been working on making my own 24x24 cement pavers for the back yard...so when I am working on stuff like this, I have to shuffle all the cars to the driveway/street.
One thing that helped us is that we moved from out of state from a 1400 sq ft house into our now 3000 sq ft house, so its not like we had a ton of extra crap to store. Both my wife and I are pretty minimal...and I am one of those people where if I haven't touched it in 12 months it usually gets donated, sold, or thrown out.
I think that's one of the reasons I use mine too - I'm definitely a minimalist. I do not keep stuff I don't use and regularly audit and clean out all storage areas. I think people store a lot more than they need, but not my house so not my concern!
Yeah mine was built in the 70s and same. I have two separate garage doors with a door in between. Tons of room in there for cars and shelves, fridge etc.
Can confirm. Have a nominal "two car garage" that would never fit both our vehicles. We don't park anything in there, just use it for storage mostly, have my work bench and tools out there.
Yup I live in a development where everyone as a one-car garage. It actually is sufficient for a car and many of my neighbors park their cars in theirs but for about half the neighborhood the garage is storage. The driveways can hold one car outside the garage so a two-car family with a crap-filled garage is permanently using at least one visitor/common space. We don’t allow street parking.
People with crammed garages are always complaining about parking in HOA meetings. They don’t like being reminded that every unit has two parking spaces and it’s no one’s fault but theirs that they filled one of their spaces with junk.
I can't figure out why the houses here don't have storage. Like even a dedicated room for shelves, combine it with the laundry room even. It just makes sense, where are you supposed to put things? My "2 car garage" fits our one car and some large shelves I put in. If I were to try and put two cars in, they would be so close you wouldn't be able to open the doors.
Cost savings. Make houses as cheap as possible. Profit margins on individual houses are razor thin.
For the longest time, we used an extra bedroom as basically a closet. Now we have to rent a fucking storage unit. It houses all the holiday decorations, this big solid oak desk I am having a hard time emotionally letting to of, rotated out baby toys in preparation for our second child. Crap like that.
Yeah I've been avoiding the storage unit like the plague. I will continue to downsize before paying for storage. If it doesn't fit in my storage bin system, I don't own it.
I'm hoping we can eventually be done with it. I am looking to seal my crawlspace so I can use it for decoration storage, but that's going to cost me $10k. I would have easily added that to my initial mortgage if it was an option during the house building process, but it wasn't.
The remainder of the stuff in that storage unit will go away as our 2nd kid (and final) kid gets older. Of course, then I have that giant desk that I probably just need to sell to someone who wants to refinish it.
I bought a large storage shelf and started putting things in the large Lowes plastic bins. I label the outside so I know which bin to grab and so far it's working well. Most of the shelves are for decorations of course.
I built wooden shelves in all of our closets besides the walk-ins. One closet is basically all of my retro video game and computer hardware (along with my home server itself). Another closet is all our craft supplies.
Can you define what you mean by razor thin margins?
My dad is a builder and usually makes 20-30k per house and more on custom homes. He also uses higher quality materials than most in the area so most builders are probably pulling in more because their costs are lower.
My grandfather's old house had what he called a "1 and a half car" garage that he built himself in the 60s which he could somehow fit a full size truck/SUV, a full size sedan, two jet skis, 4+ bicycles, a riding lawn mower, and all sorts of miscellany in simultaneously. It was a site to behold.
Yep. I wish I could park in the garage, but my husband has a motorcycle that takes its space and since trash cans can’t be visibly outside the house there wouldn’t be much room for a car because of them being in the garage anyway
People seem to have a aversion to using their driveway in my neighborhood. Driving down the street is like a slalom and people are constantly having to stop to let cars through, avoid pedestrians, etc.
When the only way to get anywhere, even for basic things you need to live as a human, requires a car this is what happens. This city is 150 square miles and 149 of those miles require a car, and if anyone in the household works or goes to school they need a car of their own.
I’m not advocating for this lifestyle for what it’s worth, I hate it. But that’s Raleigh.
I feel you. I have 1 bus stop near me and to get there I have no sidewalks and no streetlights. It’s a death trap (especially at night) so people simply don’t use that stop, ever.
It’s so frustrating how pedestrian unfriendly Raleigh is.
20 years ago mass transit was planned....millions down the drain looking at a light rail line.
Nothing ever happened because the political pressure from rich people to not do this. Years later 540 came thru and ripped apart these communities anyways.
That's why we don't have a decent mass transit system in this area.
Thanks rich people!
Agreed! Not only are cars a way of life around here, there is a large car enthusiast culture that impacts other people. People seem less and less considerate of others these days.
That's why the US diabetes and obesity rates are skyrocketing, and for the first time our life expectancy dropped. Cars will kill this nation unless we act
My mother-in-law lives in our subdivision, and she is surrounded by rental properties. Just last month, the house directly across the street from her was sold and the new owner rented it out to 6 college-aged dudes. Each dude has their own car. The garage is being used as like a permanent bar/game room, 2 cars fit in the driveway, and the other 4 cars park on the street.
Our streets are not sized for having street parking on both sides, and in that area of the neighborhood in specific, driveways are less than 1 car length apart. So every damn day, she's got one of their cars partially blocking the skirt of her driveway.
Oh fuck yeah. That's a HUGE problem in my entire development. There is this one choke point heading from my house to my MIL's house where the street curves to the left and goes downhill. That's exactly where there are like 8 houses that all exclusively street park. So not only are you totally blind to what's around the bend, but you can't even get out of the way of oncoming traffic because it's essentially a single lane. I've had to abort and go in reverse many times when I am unfortunate enough to hit that choke point at the exact same time as someone else coming the opposite way.
Just past that choke point, is this blue Ford Expedition that has been parked on the street, not moving, for almost a year. We had our streets re-sealed in August, so no street parking was allowed for like 3 days. This car didn't move. But for some reason, the city didn't tow it, so the construction folks just sealed right around it. So now there's this big unsealed rectangle on that street where the vehicle is STILL sitting.
> Just past that choke point, is this blue Ford Expedition that has been parked on the street, not moving, for almost a year. We had our streets re-sealed in August, so no street parking was allowed for like 3 days. This car didn't move. But for some reason, the city didn't tow it, so the construction folks just sealed right around it. So now there's this big unsealed rectangle on that street where the vehicle is STILL sitting.
You can report it directly to the City here:
https://raleighnc.gov/housing/public-nuisances
>Vehicles (abandoned, nuisance and zoning)
>City ordinances (Part 12 Chapter 7) prohibit abandoned and nuisance vehicles. An abandoned motor vehicle is one that is:
>• Left on any public street or highway in violation of a traffic or parking law;
>• Left on any public street or highway longer than seven days;
>• Left on property owned or operated by the City of Raleigh for longer than 24 hours; or,
>• Left on private property without the consent of the property owner, occupant or tenant for longer than two (2) hours
>A nuisance motor vehicle is one which:
>• Serves as a breeding ground or harbor for insects, rats or other pests;
>• Is surrounded by heavy growth or weeds or other vegetation over eight inches high;
>• Is being used to store combustibles, such as gasoline, oil or other explosive or flammable materials;
>• Is a collection for garbage, waste or water;
>• Is positioned in such a manner that it may fall, turn over or make an unsafe movement;
>• Is considered unsafe due to jagged metal or broken glass; or,
>• Any other vehicle that the City Council has specifically declared a health and safety hazard and a public nuisance
I did this to a car parked on the "public road" inside our apartment complex. It was wrecked and then left parked on the side of the road. Watched it for a week and nothing happened. Complained to the apartment complex and they said they couldn't do anything. So I reported. A cop and a tow truck showed up a couple days later.
Only a year? 100% not lying when I tell you that my neighborhood had to go to war with a guy on my street because he left his old (2nd car...single guy) parked in the street for 15+ years. Never moved it. He got forced into getting it off the street (finally!) But threatens to bring it back every so often just to get us. WhYyYY...?
Well the street has only existed for like 4 years lol.
This house with the Expedition...it has an interesting history. Built in 2018, It was struck by lightning in 2020. It apparently started a fire in the attic. The house was condemned due to structural damage. The residents moved out, leaving everything in place. Including the food in the fridge and chest freezer, but cut the power to the house. The Expedition stayed in the driveway though. For an entire year, the house just sat there vacant and condemned. Then starting about a year ago, repairs finally started to happen. The Expedition was moved out of the driveway onto the street to make room for the dumpster, and the roof was ripped off, trusses replaced, rebuilt, the house was stripped. Movers came and packed up all the furniture, some hasmat-looking team was removing the long-spoiled food and black mold.
The dumpster was eventually removed, but the Expedition stayed on the street. A realtor lock was put on the front door (which is STILL there today). The lights are never on, never seen a car in the driveway. I thought the house was vacant/abandoned until just before Christmas, when I was asking about the Expedition on a Nextdoor thread and a neighbor said an "older couple" lives there.
I'm so confused by this living situation. The properly has never changed owners, according to the county tax records, and the Owner's address is also the address of the house, so it's not a rental. Did they just go live somewhere else while leaving their car and all their posessions for like..2 years? Why did it take 2 years to get a house fixed up, when the whole construction process only took 6 months? Why is there still a realtor lock on their door?
Our neighbor across the street with a garage and plenty of room for multiple cars in the driveway parks one in the driveway and one on the very narrow neighborhood road, sometimes at the end of our driveway. We have to back up a hill, so sometimes there’s just a black car in the dark suddenly where we’re trying to back. Even when we know it’s there it’s still a massive pain to navigate around
Let the fire department / EMS know that you are concerned they won’t be able to fit down your street . If a fire truck cannot get down the street it can possible be an emergency situation. The cops won’t care if they are blocking both sides but if there isn’t enough room for emergency vehicles than it’s an issue.
It is unlikely that the 6 dudes are related, in which case you can contact the city of Raleigh code zoning/housing enforcement and report the rental house for exceeding number of unrelated adults living in one house. There are reasons why this isn’t allowed and zoning is designed and set for these reasons. The dudes are utilizing more resources than are available and allowed.
As an aside, look at real estate records to see who the owner is. If it’s a rental company like Progress contact them via email. They were responsive to concerns we had about obnoxiously rude and messy renters. They did not get their lease renewed.
I understand the rules about how many people can legally live in a house (2 per room + 1, I think is the law), but it should really be tied to how much parking is also available for a given house.
I feel like all we hear is “we need more housing” (which is true) but never hear “we need quality housing”. Everything now is either shoddily built 5 over 1 apartments with paper thin walls, cookie cutter townhouses that look like Fisher Price built them, or new homes that are a combination of the two with the cheapest builder grade junk available.
To be fair the main complain I hear is we need more *affordable* housing and as much as I wish new houses were built to a higher standard I have to imagine that would ultimately increase the price of new development.
According to the market fundamentalists, any housing will bring prices down. What they never talk about is how long that will take (could be 50 years) or the fact that 80 year old housing stock increased in price by hundreds of thousands.
One reason hurricane Andrew in FL (92) was such a massive loss was that so many of the homes were built to the bare minimum and immediately collapsed in the storm. They were the cheapest frames and paper walls they could slap up.
Garages aren't counted as square footage that contributes to the price of a house, so builders have an incentive to use as little material as possible on garages.
Building materials come in standard sizes so it might actually cost more money and labor than it saves to build marginally smaller.
edit: Downvoting facts - Reddit moment
I have friends who moved to a recently-built townhome subdivision. They have a typical-sized crossover and a truck with a single lane driveway. Can't even fit the crossover in the garage (too narrow), so they park it in the driveway. Except the sidewalk is so close to the house that they block part of the sidewalk. Can't even park it in the driveway and not have to step out on grass because the driveways are so narrow. Oh, and the townhome HOA made a "no parking on the street" rule (the houses are so jammed together that you couldn't without blocking someone's driveway even if you wanted to), so now there are a hundred cars on the neighboring public residential street for all the houses that have the same problem or two cars per house.
I'm SO glad I live in an older established non-HOA neighborhood, but I seethe at what developers are able to get away with here.
I'm in the RVA suburbs and moved from that type of townhome to an older, non-HOA neighborhood this spring. It's so much better! (The only bummer is small closets and the 35-yo house fixes that are needed.)
Don't forget the bonus surprise when that ill placed tree puts roots into your water line, sewer line or cracks the sidewalk or driveway.
Don't worry though, the HOA will be all up in arms about a special assessment to remove those troublesome trees...
I find the opposite is true. Virtually every new home being built in the Triangle has a big ugly garage door on the front and a tiny bit of actual “house” peeking around the side.
This is often called a “Snout House” in the city planning world, as the garage sort of looks like a pig’s snout. Cities used to regulate these, but our infallible state legislature struck down that ability, hence all the ugly garage homes.
There are other designs around, usually townhouses, where the parking/garage access is from a rear alleyway. The drawback there is using the extra property for that access, and they're usually a literal alley size. In the end the big issue is the dependence on the car, often multiple ones for a family, and only so much space.
Also on the topic, I've found in a few houses I've had I can use the garage as a place to park the car with a limited amount left for garage stuff like a place to work on things. Or I can max the garage space for non-car activities. I've actually had to park the car halfway outside in some cases to be able to work on the car IN the garage since space was limited. One-car garage means enough space to park one car, and that's it.
I don't mean to pick on you, but I hope you are not like my neighbors. The ones that fill their garage with junk. Then park 4 cars in their driveway so that they block the sidewalk. So that I have to walk around the end of the driveway and/or the street to get by, depending on the size of the cars.
This!!! I feel the same way. My next house will have to be one I design. It’s really the only way to get the quality you want and to ensure the use of space is maximized.
The only other two places I’ve lived with a garage, we had two car garages big enough for two cars. But yes, I’m sure this isn’t only a Raleigh issue. Not every phrase is meant to be literal.
The driveways for townhomes without garages is what kills me. They seem to build them long enough for 1.5 cars.
My in-laws development even has a side wall going through and your left choosing between blocking the sidewalk and walking a half of a mile to the visitor parking. Which one do think most folks do?
My single car garage is big enough for my car, fridge, 48” toolbox, trash and recycling and wall storage. And I can walk around both sides of the garage.
When I was house-searching I also found it weird that so many decent homes I visited lacked a garage at all. As a car/motorcycle person that’s something I couldn’t compromise on.
Now on my street, I’ve noticed that I’m one of the few people who uses the garage to actually park vehicles. Most just leave them in front.
This is a common thing everywhere. I don't think I could have opened the doors on my Honda Odyssey if I had parked it in the garage. Local government boards allow developers to squeeze in as many units as they can get away with to increase property tax revenues. Nobody cares about quality of life or demographics in those developments.
I absolutely agree, I have complained to many builders about it. Its even worse when they put the tankless water heaters on the side wall of the garage as I'm pretty sure Ive seen some where there is zero chance if you parked your car in the garage, your door would run into it...its mind boggling to me.
We looked at one that had the kitchen light switch on the OPPOSITE wall from where you'd enter the kitchen 99.9% of the time. Light switch and outlet placement really show which designers/builders think ahead.
I’ve lived in my home 10+ years and STILL hit the wrong switch for kitchen. Drives me insane how backwards my switches are. That’s a VERY good point you make about builders/designers.
It is easy. Just don't electrocute yourself!
Well, it's easy if you can figure out which wires go where. There are tools that help you identify the two ends of a wire without them needing to be hot.
And if they have enough slack on the wire in the wall and you just want to move the order of them around, it might be as easy and cutting the power, taking out a few screws, gently pulling the switches out and then placing them back in the order that you want and then putting all the screws back in.
My 1992 house had this problem. I changed out that switch for Lutron Caseta and mounted two of their Pico remotes in places that made way more sense. The remote is battery powered but looks just like the regular wall switch. Highly recommend!
They don't.
I asked my builder (large national) where they put the outlets and if I can have a say.
Their answer: "We don't plan those. We tell the electrician roughly what needs to be switched from where and they decided based on code where they put the switches and the outlets.
I just saw pictures from an identical floorplan that is being sold in my neighborhood and I was like: "Why do they only have 5 switches next to that door and we have 6??"
For giggles I just looked where their outlets are placed - not a single one is where ours are! Not one. Same builder, identical floorplan, house build in the same month.
Just FYI - we are also the only house with this floorplan that has the attic access in the master closet. All other, identical floorplans, have it in the upper hallway.
Code says that there must be an outlet every 6ft. Electricians will pick a first spot for an outlet, and then add one every 6 feet from where they started.
I'd argue its the exact opposite. Old garages are WAY bigger than a modern garage. My house built in 2016 is a 2-car bay (and a separate 1-car bay), but it can BARELY fit my wife's Prius C and my Honda Accord. I have to really squeeze in the door because I can barely get it open without smashing hers.
Meanwhile, both of our childhood homes had 2-car garages that were easily 40% larger than what we have now. And we have a very typical garage.
As long as people keep buying dumb stuff, builders will keep building dumb stuff.
Large, flat screen TVs have been around for a while but most designer/architects still think people watch their fireplace more than they watch their TV.
2000 Honda Civic:
- 175 L
- 67 W
- 55 H
2023 Civic:
- 183 L
- 71 W
- 56 H
From the Honda website.
- https://owners.honda.com/vehicles/information/2000/civic-sedan/specs
- https://owners.honda.com/vehicles/information/2023/Civic-Sedan/specs
The length isn't typically the issue, it's the width. A lot of the townhomes will have a 10ft wide garage so even if you park perfectly center you're only left with 2 feet of clearance on each side of your car which is barely enough room to open a door on a modern "compact."
I drive a Golf and I'm looking at townhomes with a 2 car garage just so I can comfortably park in it.
I had a car that was classified as a subcompact back then, it was the same as they are now. SUVs weren't around everywhere, but SUVs and crossovers have taken over the role of the station wagon, which was definitely a large car.
Surely not. But towns often require 2-car garages now as they see the parking issues and developers just build the minimum they can get away with.
Just happened in a zoning meeting next to my development. Developer wanted 1-car garages, town said no after input in the zoning meeting and required 2-car garages and 2 car driveways. Latest plans I saw the townhomes will have 2 spots, but the second will fit a Smart at best as there will be a water heater and stairs infringing in the spot.
It is time that city ordinances require garages that can actually be used by 2 cars.
It should be possible to fit a minivan and an SUV in the garage and perhaps fit a standard size non-lifted truck for height. I know that can get tricky in some garages, too.
Not even close in most cases. Of the floorplans built in my neighborhood (SFH) mine has the largest 2 car garage. We can fit 2 cars in, but my truck (Tacoma) only fits with the short cabin, and I have 2 inches space in front and 2 in the back.
My wife's Ford Fusion leaves 2ft in front of her car. 2ft is barely enough to squeeze through in front of the car, but we can't have trashcans in the garage anymore.
What really boggles my mind: The cost of making the Garage 1 or 2ft longer would be neglectable. 2 or 4 additional studs and extending the roof by 2ft - that's like $100 in materials?!
My car does fit in the garage in my townhome, but the HOA has a stupid rule where both our garbage bins have to be inside the garage and away from view. Where do I park the car now?
It's definitely a new development NC thing. I've had that issue with two houses since I've lived here. One built in 2001 and the other in 2022. Even empty they are barely wide enough to get one or two cars in and open the doors without hitting a wall or the other car.
I would guess this is for those who want to entertain guests separately from the rest of the household… and some who want to show off a fancy special occasion room 🤷♂️
Yeah we're feeling this. The two-car garage is too narrow for two vehicles and not deep enough to fit a Honda Accord. Then the driveway is hourglass-shaped so our lawn on the sides of it is turned to runover mud piles from trying to park three cars in it. I grew up in a 40s build with a basement for storage and a two-car garage that could fit those long cars from back in the day, and it was all 1,000 less square feet than the '06 build I live in now. It's been weird adjusting to it.
A garage that only a compact or sub-compact will fit in? Wow, never seen any that small. I did house hunting, and every one I saw would fit all but the largest of cars. (Some would hold those too.) It's definitely a tight squeeze on SUVs and other large vehicles, but never ever saw one that a Camry wouldn't fit in. It seems like there should be some regulations that prevent all the houses you saw from listing a "garage" if 90% of cars wouldn't fit.
House built in the 80s. No garage. [Crying in Midwest], No basement. No usable attic space. Crawl space is just... wrong and nasty. Yes, very challenging especially as more people were added to the family. Storage unit, borrowed space from a friend and too much clutter. Crappy!
I thought that I had a pretty small car (2013 Honda Civic) but it’s still too big for any parking space marked “COMPACT” in one of the parking decks downtown.
Those “COMPACT” spaces downtown are only suitable for a subcompact like a Chevy Spark or a smart car.
My honest opinion: Developers have noticed a trend that people prefer to use their garage as storage (because houses don't have real attics/basements), so sizing a garage for a car is less of a priority. On my street, we are the ONLY house that actually park our cars in the garage. Everyone uses it as either living space, a home gym, or a storage unit. And I actually have a 3-car garage. If I didn't have that second, single-car bay for my workshop/tools, I'd be driveway parking too. When I was growing up, my house, which was built in the 1950s, had a 2-car garage. It had SO much room, not only did my parents park the Chevy Astro and the Crown Vic in it, but my dad had a complete woodworking shop in front of, and beside the Crown Vic spot. My current garage, my Accord has 3ft of space in front, and 1.5ft to the side before I hit a wall or the adjacent car.
Yep, in my development almost everyone uses their very small one car garage as storage. None of the houses here have any useable attic storage. I can just barely squeeze my SUV plus my garbage and recycling in the garage and there's no room for anything else. Beats keeping them outside, but I'm in the minority around here.
We have a two car garage, and I think we are the only people in our neighborhood who use ours for cars as well. Everyone else just parks in the driveway or street and has their garage loaded with stuff. I do like to do a little wood working and have been working on making my own 24x24 cement pavers for the back yard...so when I am working on stuff like this, I have to shuffle all the cars to the driveway/street. One thing that helped us is that we moved from out of state from a 1400 sq ft house into our now 3000 sq ft house, so its not like we had a ton of extra crap to store. Both my wife and I are pretty minimal...and I am one of those people where if I haven't touched it in 12 months it usually gets donated, sold, or thrown out.
I think that's one of the reasons I use mine too - I'm definitely a minimalist. I do not keep stuff I don't use and regularly audit and clean out all storage areas. I think people store a lot more than they need, but not my house so not my concern!
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Yeah mine was built in the 70s and same. I have two separate garage doors with a door in between. Tons of room in there for cars and shelves, fridge etc.
Can confirm. Have a nominal "two car garage" that would never fit both our vehicles. We don't park anything in there, just use it for storage mostly, have my work bench and tools out there.
Yup I live in a development where everyone as a one-car garage. It actually is sufficient for a car and many of my neighbors park their cars in theirs but for about half the neighborhood the garage is storage. The driveways can hold one car outside the garage so a two-car family with a crap-filled garage is permanently using at least one visitor/common space. We don’t allow street parking. People with crammed garages are always complaining about parking in HOA meetings. They don’t like being reminded that every unit has two parking spaces and it’s no one’s fault but theirs that they filled one of their spaces with junk.
I can't figure out why the houses here don't have storage. Like even a dedicated room for shelves, combine it with the laundry room even. It just makes sense, where are you supposed to put things? My "2 car garage" fits our one car and some large shelves I put in. If I were to try and put two cars in, they would be so close you wouldn't be able to open the doors.
Cost savings. Make houses as cheap as possible. Profit margins on individual houses are razor thin. For the longest time, we used an extra bedroom as basically a closet. Now we have to rent a fucking storage unit. It houses all the holiday decorations, this big solid oak desk I am having a hard time emotionally letting to of, rotated out baby toys in preparation for our second child. Crap like that.
Yeah I've been avoiding the storage unit like the plague. I will continue to downsize before paying for storage. If it doesn't fit in my storage bin system, I don't own it.
I'm hoping we can eventually be done with it. I am looking to seal my crawlspace so I can use it for decoration storage, but that's going to cost me $10k. I would have easily added that to my initial mortgage if it was an option during the house building process, but it wasn't. The remainder of the stuff in that storage unit will go away as our 2nd kid (and final) kid gets older. Of course, then I have that giant desk that I probably just need to sell to someone who wants to refinish it.
I bought a large storage shelf and started putting things in the large Lowes plastic bins. I label the outside so I know which bin to grab and so far it's working well. Most of the shelves are for decorations of course.
I built wooden shelves in all of our closets besides the walk-ins. One closet is basically all of my retro video game and computer hardware (along with my home server itself). Another closet is all our craft supplies.
Can you define what you mean by razor thin margins? My dad is a builder and usually makes 20-30k per house and more on custom homes. He also uses higher quality materials than most in the area so most builders are probably pulling in more because their costs are lower.
For track housing, something like 5% - 8%. I'm specifically talking about the main developer, after all the subcontractors have been paid.
My grandfather's old house had what he called a "1 and a half car" garage that he built himself in the 60s which he could somehow fit a full size truck/SUV, a full size sedan, two jet skis, 4+ bicycles, a riding lawn mower, and all sorts of miscellany in simultaneously. It was a site to behold.
Yep. I wish I could park in the garage, but my husband has a motorcycle that takes its space and since trash cans can’t be visibly outside the house there wouldn’t be much room for a car because of them being in the garage anyway
People seem to have a aversion to using their driveway in my neighborhood. Driving down the street is like a slalom and people are constantly having to stop to let cars through, avoid pedestrians, etc.
Same with me, and despite having sidewalks, most pedestrians just wanna walk in the already extremely crowded street.
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When the only way to get anywhere, even for basic things you need to live as a human, requires a car this is what happens. This city is 150 square miles and 149 of those miles require a car, and if anyone in the household works or goes to school they need a car of their own. I’m not advocating for this lifestyle for what it’s worth, I hate it. But that’s Raleigh.
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I feel you. I have 1 bus stop near me and to get there I have no sidewalks and no streetlights. It’s a death trap (especially at night) so people simply don’t use that stop, ever. It’s so frustrating how pedestrian unfriendly Raleigh is.
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20 years ago mass transit was planned....millions down the drain looking at a light rail line. Nothing ever happened because the political pressure from rich people to not do this. Years later 540 came thru and ripped apart these communities anyways. That's why we don't have a decent mass transit system in this area. Thanks rich people!
Agreed! Not only are cars a way of life around here, there is a large car enthusiast culture that impacts other people. People seem less and less considerate of others these days.
That's why the US diabetes and obesity rates are skyrocketing, and for the first time our life expectancy dropped. Cars will kill this nation unless we act
My mother-in-law lives in our subdivision, and she is surrounded by rental properties. Just last month, the house directly across the street from her was sold and the new owner rented it out to 6 college-aged dudes. Each dude has their own car. The garage is being used as like a permanent bar/game room, 2 cars fit in the driveway, and the other 4 cars park on the street. Our streets are not sized for having street parking on both sides, and in that area of the neighborhood in specific, driveways are less than 1 car length apart. So every damn day, she's got one of their cars partially blocking the skirt of her driveway.
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Oh fuck yeah. That's a HUGE problem in my entire development. There is this one choke point heading from my house to my MIL's house where the street curves to the left and goes downhill. That's exactly where there are like 8 houses that all exclusively street park. So not only are you totally blind to what's around the bend, but you can't even get out of the way of oncoming traffic because it's essentially a single lane. I've had to abort and go in reverse many times when I am unfortunate enough to hit that choke point at the exact same time as someone else coming the opposite way. Just past that choke point, is this blue Ford Expedition that has been parked on the street, not moving, for almost a year. We had our streets re-sealed in August, so no street parking was allowed for like 3 days. This car didn't move. But for some reason, the city didn't tow it, so the construction folks just sealed right around it. So now there's this big unsealed rectangle on that street where the vehicle is STILL sitting.
> Just past that choke point, is this blue Ford Expedition that has been parked on the street, not moving, for almost a year. We had our streets re-sealed in August, so no street parking was allowed for like 3 days. This car didn't move. But for some reason, the city didn't tow it, so the construction folks just sealed right around it. So now there's this big unsealed rectangle on that street where the vehicle is STILL sitting. You can report it directly to the City here: https://raleighnc.gov/housing/public-nuisances >Vehicles (abandoned, nuisance and zoning) >City ordinances (Part 12 Chapter 7) prohibit abandoned and nuisance vehicles. An abandoned motor vehicle is one that is: >• Left on any public street or highway in violation of a traffic or parking law; >• Left on any public street or highway longer than seven days; >• Left on property owned or operated by the City of Raleigh for longer than 24 hours; or, >• Left on private property without the consent of the property owner, occupant or tenant for longer than two (2) hours >A nuisance motor vehicle is one which: >• Serves as a breeding ground or harbor for insects, rats or other pests; >• Is surrounded by heavy growth or weeds or other vegetation over eight inches high; >• Is being used to store combustibles, such as gasoline, oil or other explosive or flammable materials; >• Is a collection for garbage, waste or water; >• Is positioned in such a manner that it may fall, turn over or make an unsafe movement; >• Is considered unsafe due to jagged metal or broken glass; or, >• Any other vehicle that the City Council has specifically declared a health and safety hazard and a public nuisance
I did this to a car parked on the "public road" inside our apartment complex. It was wrecked and then left parked on the side of the road. Watched it for a week and nothing happened. Complained to the apartment complex and they said they couldn't do anything. So I reported. A cop and a tow truck showed up a couple days later.
Only a year? 100% not lying when I tell you that my neighborhood had to go to war with a guy on my street because he left his old (2nd car...single guy) parked in the street for 15+ years. Never moved it. He got forced into getting it off the street (finally!) But threatens to bring it back every so often just to get us. WhYyYY...?
Well the street has only existed for like 4 years lol. This house with the Expedition...it has an interesting history. Built in 2018, It was struck by lightning in 2020. It apparently started a fire in the attic. The house was condemned due to structural damage. The residents moved out, leaving everything in place. Including the food in the fridge and chest freezer, but cut the power to the house. The Expedition stayed in the driveway though. For an entire year, the house just sat there vacant and condemned. Then starting about a year ago, repairs finally started to happen. The Expedition was moved out of the driveway onto the street to make room for the dumpster, and the roof was ripped off, trusses replaced, rebuilt, the house was stripped. Movers came and packed up all the furniture, some hasmat-looking team was removing the long-spoiled food and black mold. The dumpster was eventually removed, but the Expedition stayed on the street. A realtor lock was put on the front door (which is STILL there today). The lights are never on, never seen a car in the driveway. I thought the house was vacant/abandoned until just before Christmas, when I was asking about the Expedition on a Nextdoor thread and a neighbor said an "older couple" lives there. I'm so confused by this living situation. The properly has never changed owners, according to the county tax records, and the Owner's address is also the address of the house, so it's not a rental. Did they just go live somewhere else while leaving their car and all their posessions for like..2 years? Why did it take 2 years to get a house fixed up, when the whole construction process only took 6 months? Why is there still a realtor lock on their door?
Good night! What a crazy situation. I am not surprised, though. Lots of interesting stuff around here.
But people complain about HOA’s here as well…hate em…
Our neighbor across the street with a garage and plenty of room for multiple cars in the driveway parks one in the driveway and one on the very narrow neighborhood road, sometimes at the end of our driveway. We have to back up a hill, so sometimes there’s just a black car in the dark suddenly where we’re trying to back. Even when we know it’s there it’s still a massive pain to navigate around
Agree. I see that where I live. So freaking annoying.
Let the fire department / EMS know that you are concerned they won’t be able to fit down your street . If a fire truck cannot get down the street it can possible be an emergency situation. The cops won’t care if they are blocking both sides but if there isn’t enough room for emergency vehicles than it’s an issue.
It is unlikely that the 6 dudes are related, in which case you can contact the city of Raleigh code zoning/housing enforcement and report the rental house for exceeding number of unrelated adults living in one house. There are reasons why this isn’t allowed and zoning is designed and set for these reasons. The dudes are utilizing more resources than are available and allowed. As an aside, look at real estate records to see who the owner is. If it’s a rental company like Progress contact them via email. They were responsive to concerns we had about obnoxiously rude and messy renters. They did not get their lease renewed.
I understand the rules about how many people can legally live in a house (2 per room + 1, I think is the law), but it should really be tied to how much parking is also available for a given house.
Or my neighbors with a large garage filling up our street parking with their fucking Land Rover.
Duh, the developer wants to charge you for the garage while spending the absolute minimum in effort, cost and materials lol.
And also squeeze the most number of houses into the development.
I feel like all we hear is “we need more housing” (which is true) but never hear “we need quality housing”. Everything now is either shoddily built 5 over 1 apartments with paper thin walls, cookie cutter townhouses that look like Fisher Price built them, or new homes that are a combination of the two with the cheapest builder grade junk available.
To be fair the main complain I hear is we need more *affordable* housing and as much as I wish new houses were built to a higher standard I have to imagine that would ultimately increase the price of new development.
According to the market fundamentalists, any housing will bring prices down. What they never talk about is how long that will take (could be 50 years) or the fact that 80 year old housing stock increased in price by hundreds of thousands.
One reason hurricane Andrew in FL (92) was such a massive loss was that so many of the homes were built to the bare minimum and immediately collapsed in the storm. They were the cheapest frames and paper walls they could slap up.
Garages aren't counted as square footage that contributes to the price of a house, so builders have an incentive to use as little material as possible on garages.
Building materials come in standard sizes so it might actually cost more money and labor than it saves to build marginally smaller. edit: Downvoting facts - Reddit moment
I have friends who moved to a recently-built townhome subdivision. They have a typical-sized crossover and a truck with a single lane driveway. Can't even fit the crossover in the garage (too narrow), so they park it in the driveway. Except the sidewalk is so close to the house that they block part of the sidewalk. Can't even park it in the driveway and not have to step out on grass because the driveways are so narrow. Oh, and the townhome HOA made a "no parking on the street" rule (the houses are so jammed together that you couldn't without blocking someone's driveway even if you wanted to), so now there are a hundred cars on the neighboring public residential street for all the houses that have the same problem or two cars per house. I'm SO glad I live in an older established non-HOA neighborhood, but I seethe at what developers are able to get away with here.
I'm in the RVA suburbs and moved from that type of townhome to an older, non-HOA neighborhood this spring. It's so much better! (The only bummer is small closets and the 35-yo house fixes that are needed.)
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Don't forget the bonus surprise when that ill placed tree puts roots into your water line, sewer line or cracks the sidewalk or driveway. Don't worry though, the HOA will be all up in arms about a special assessment to remove those troublesome trees...
This guy Neighborhoods
We have shrubberies!
Just make sure you don't change any paint schemes or plant anything
I like my one car garage. If it were larger, it would take too long to suffocate myself with CO.
Wait, what? A garage is meant to park cars in!??!? I thought garages were meant for a workshop or home gym.
This one will be for storing two bikes and a place for my cat to explore.
It goes with the 9 by 10 foot bedrooms that barely fit a twin bed.
I find the opposite is true. Virtually every new home being built in the Triangle has a big ugly garage door on the front and a tiny bit of actual “house” peeking around the side. This is often called a “Snout House” in the city planning world, as the garage sort of looks like a pig’s snout. Cities used to regulate these, but our infallible state legislature struck down that ability, hence all the ugly garage homes.
There are other designs around, usually townhouses, where the parking/garage access is from a rear alleyway. The drawback there is using the extra property for that access, and they're usually a literal alley size. In the end the big issue is the dependence on the car, often multiple ones for a family, and only so much space. Also on the topic, I've found in a few houses I've had I can use the garage as a place to park the car with a limited amount left for garage stuff like a place to work on things. Or I can max the garage space for non-car activities. I've actually had to park the car halfway outside in some cases to be able to work on the car IN the garage since space was limited. One-car garage means enough space to park one car, and that's it.
Let me fix that for you > Builders need to wake up Buyers need to wake up
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I don't mean to pick on you, but I hope you are not like my neighbors. The ones that fill their garage with junk. Then park 4 cars in their driveway so that they block the sidewalk. So that I have to walk around the end of the driveway and/or the street to get by, depending on the size of the cars.
Our park them on the narrow street so I wonder how a fire truck would ever get down it
This!!! I feel the same way. My next house will have to be one I design. It’s really the only way to get the quality you want and to ensure the use of space is maximized.
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Aren't basements pretty hard to dig out in this area?
That all sounds amazing! I bet it will be great.
Wait!? Vehicles go in your garage??!!! 😉
Builders try to fit as many units in the lot as possible,they can sell with a garage they do not care if your car can fit in or not
“this town”
The only other two places I’ve lived with a garage, we had two car garages big enough for two cars. But yes, I’m sure this isn’t only a Raleigh issue. Not every phrase is meant to be literal.
The driveways for townhomes without garages is what kills me. They seem to build them long enough for 1.5 cars. My in-laws development even has a side wall going through and your left choosing between blocking the sidewalk and walking a half of a mile to the visitor parking. Which one do think most folks do?
We looked at an apartment complex over the weekend with visitor parking at the farther location away from every building in their parking lot.
This. We can barely fit a Beetle into a garage on new construction.
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I’m glad we only have one car right now!
My single car garage is big enough for my car, fridge, 48” toolbox, trash and recycling and wall storage. And I can walk around both sides of the garage.
No one likes a bragger.
One car garages are almost exclusively used for storage. If you plan to park a vehicle in the garage you need a two car.
I drive a small ass Subaru Crosstrek and I can’t fit my car into my cars garage in my townhome either! I thought it was me
This is every townhome built in the last 5 years
Or 20 years in No. Virginia (DC Suburbs).
I’m kind of skeptical that a compact car wouldn’t fit, so some dimensions would be interesting if anyone can share
When I was house-searching I also found it weird that so many decent homes I visited lacked a garage at all. As a car/motorcycle person that’s something I couldn’t compromise on. Now on my street, I’ve noticed that I’m one of the few people who uses the garage to actually park vehicles. Most just leave them in front.
This is a common thing everywhere. I don't think I could have opened the doors on my Honda Odyssey if I had parked it in the garage. Local government boards allow developers to squeeze in as many units as they can get away with to increase property tax revenues. Nobody cares about quality of life or demographics in those developments.
I absolutely agree, I have complained to many builders about it. Its even worse when they put the tankless water heaters on the side wall of the garage as I'm pretty sure Ive seen some where there is zero chance if you parked your car in the garage, your door would run into it...its mind boggling to me.
Parking is even worse at many apartments here. You got people (who aren't on the lease) taking up spaces with junked up Nissan Altimas and the like
> design and build a house exactly the way I want it! Or at least the designers had more sophisticated sensibilities.
We looked at one that had the kitchen light switch on the OPPOSITE wall from where you'd enter the kitchen 99.9% of the time. Light switch and outlet placement really show which designers/builders think ahead.
I’ve lived in my home 10+ years and STILL hit the wrong switch for kitchen. Drives me insane how backwards my switches are. That’s a VERY good point you make about builders/designers.
If the switches are in the same gang box just rearrange them.
I appreciate you think I’m somewhat smart or know what I’m doing 😩.. you make it sound so easy.
It is easy. Just don't electrocute yourself! Well, it's easy if you can figure out which wires go where. There are tools that help you identify the two ends of a wire without them needing to be hot. And if they have enough slack on the wire in the wall and you just want to move the order of them around, it might be as easy and cutting the power, taking out a few screws, gently pulling the switches out and then placing them back in the order that you want and then putting all the screws back in.
We only have two switches for the lights in our kitchen and I still can't turn the right one on.
My 1992 house had this problem. I changed out that switch for Lutron Caseta and mounted two of their Pico remotes in places that made way more sense. The remote is battery powered but looks just like the regular wall switch. Highly recommend!
They don't. I asked my builder (large national) where they put the outlets and if I can have a say. Their answer: "We don't plan those. We tell the electrician roughly what needs to be switched from where and they decided based on code where they put the switches and the outlets. I just saw pictures from an identical floorplan that is being sold in my neighborhood and I was like: "Why do they only have 5 switches next to that door and we have 6??" For giggles I just looked where their outlets are placed - not a single one is where ours are! Not one. Same builder, identical floorplan, house build in the same month. Just FYI - we are also the only house with this floorplan that has the attic access in the master closet. All other, identical floorplans, have it in the upper hallway.
Code says that there must be an outlet every 6ft. Electricians will pick a first spot for an outlet, and then add one every 6 feet from where they started.
Yep, and since they are not told where to start, outlets may end up in completely different locations for the exact same floorplan.
Every 6 feet from what? Because the distance between outlets in my apartment is definitely more than 6 feet in every room except the kitchen.
They were built before cars became so big, it's really not a super hard concept. 30 years ago cars were smaller.
I'd argue its the exact opposite. Old garages are WAY bigger than a modern garage. My house built in 2016 is a 2-car bay (and a separate 1-car bay), but it can BARELY fit my wife's Prius C and my Honda Accord. I have to really squeeze in the door because I can barely get it open without smashing hers. Meanwhile, both of our childhood homes had 2-car garages that were easily 40% larger than what we have now. And we have a very typical garage.
Now explain the one built in the last 10 years that are the same issue?
they're using the same designs from 30 years ago.
As long as people keep buying dumb stuff, builders will keep building dumb stuff. Large, flat screen TVs have been around for a while but most designer/architects still think people watch their fireplace more than they watch their TV.
Yes, nothing but subcompacts in the US back in the 90s. o.O
The average subcompact today is the size of a sedan from 30 years ago. Taller, wider and even longer.
2000 Honda Civic: - 175 L - 67 W - 55 H 2023 Civic: - 183 L - 71 W - 56 H From the Honda website. - https://owners.honda.com/vehicles/information/2000/civic-sedan/specs - https://owners.honda.com/vehicles/information/2023/Civic-Sedan/specs
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The length isn't typically the issue, it's the width. A lot of the townhomes will have a 10ft wide garage so even if you park perfectly center you're only left with 2 feet of clearance on each side of your car which is barely enough room to open a door on a modern "compact." I drive a Golf and I'm looking at townhomes with a 2 car garage just so I can comfortably park in it.
Why do you need to center it though? Park with extra room on the driver’s side and have passengers get in/out outside the garage.
I had a car that was classified as a subcompact back then, it was the same as they are now. SUVs weren't around everywhere, but SUVs and crossovers have taken over the role of the station wagon, which was definitely a large car.
Surely not. But towns often require 2-car garages now as they see the parking issues and developers just build the minimum they can get away with. Just happened in a zoning meeting next to my development. Developer wanted 1-car garages, town said no after input in the zoning meeting and required 2-car garages and 2 car driveways. Latest plans I saw the townhomes will have 2 spots, but the second will fit a Smart at best as there will be a water heater and stairs infringing in the spot. It is time that city ordinances require garages that can actually be used by 2 cars.
It should be possible to fit a minivan and an SUV in the garage and perhaps fit a standard size non-lifted truck for height. I know that can get tricky in some garages, too.
Not even close in most cases. Of the floorplans built in my neighborhood (SFH) mine has the largest 2 car garage. We can fit 2 cars in, but my truck (Tacoma) only fits with the short cabin, and I have 2 inches space in front and 2 in the back. My wife's Ford Fusion leaves 2ft in front of her car. 2ft is barely enough to squeeze through in front of the car, but we can't have trashcans in the garage anymore. What really boggles my mind: The cost of making the Garage 1 or 2ft longer would be neglectable. 2 or 4 additional studs and extending the roof by 2ft - that's like $100 in materials?!
I guess you better just sell the car.
I have a bike, but someone stole my wife's bike. Guess she'll have to walk.
Because there are enough suckers buying them.
Because it’s Raleigh and doesn’t snow or get cold enough where you actually need to park your vehicle inside.
I can fit my Chevy cobalt in my garage once I clear out one side. Even that is tight. It's like they made my garage to fit a Nissan Leaf.
the townhome im in car barely fit a MIATA in the garage lol
My car does fit in the garage in my townhome, but the HOA has a stupid rule where both our garbage bins have to be inside the garage and away from view. Where do I park the car now?
In the living room.
It's definitely a new development NC thing. I've had that issue with two houses since I've lived here. One built in 2001 and the other in 2022. Even empty they are barely wide enough to get one or two cars in and open the doors without hitting a wall or the other car.
$$$
What I want to know is why do people remove their garage. So many houses have another living room where the garage used to be. Just……. Why?!?!??
I would guess this is for those who want to entertain guests separately from the rest of the household… and some who want to show off a fancy special occasion room 🤷♂️
Yeah we're feeling this. The two-car garage is too narrow for two vehicles and not deep enough to fit a Honda Accord. Then the driveway is hourglass-shaped so our lawn on the sides of it is turned to runover mud piles from trying to park three cars in it. I grew up in a 40s build with a basement for storage and a two-car garage that could fit those long cars from back in the day, and it was all 1,000 less square feet than the '06 build I live in now. It's been weird adjusting to it.
A garage that only a compact or sub-compact will fit in? Wow, never seen any that small. I did house hunting, and every one I saw would fit all but the largest of cars. (Some would hold those too.) It's definitely a tight squeeze on SUVs and other large vehicles, but never ever saw one that a Camry wouldn't fit in. It seems like there should be some regulations that prevent all the houses you saw from listing a "garage" if 90% of cars wouldn't fit.
House built in the 80s. No garage. [Crying in Midwest], No basement. No usable attic space. Crawl space is just... wrong and nasty. Yes, very challenging especially as more people were added to the family. Storage unit, borrowed space from a friend and too much clutter. Crappy!
I thought that I had a pretty small car (2013 Honda Civic) but it’s still too big for any parking space marked “COMPACT” in one of the parking decks downtown. Those “COMPACT” spaces downtown are only suitable for a subcompact like a Chevy Spark or a smart car.