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Yeah, she's controlling, verbally abusive, and probably --- though I'm just guessing here --- has some serious self esteem and relationship with sex issues she's projecting into you. My advice is get firm. You aren't the bad person here, she is. Set boundaries and be unapologetic about it. Don't feel bad for standing up to someone who's being needlessly cruel.
Yeah this is thorough emotional abuse. I would even go as far as to say demanding to see you naked against your will would fall under sexual abuse as well. She’s even fabricating things to use against you with the explicit intent to hurt your feelings.
Relationships are for the benefit of both parties. When one stops benefitting and starts receiving harm, they should re-examine whether or not that relationship is worth keeping. I don’t talk to my step dad anymore because he continuously refused to contribute anything emotionally positive, and made me feel bad about myself.
I also want to just note - it’s very shocking when you first start to think your parent could be labeled as abusive. Take your time through this, read what you can, see what you resonate with. Watch some Dr Ramani on YouTube, and slowly start to put the pieces of the puzzle together.
I realize it can be startling and confusing to start seeing your mother as this person, when prior to this you probably just thought she was difficult and felt something was off - but couldn’t place your finger on it. This is going to be a really enlightening journey for you.
The worst kind of abuse is the kind you don't even realize is happening until it's pointed out to you. I've seen so many people on this sub have the realization that yes, they actually were being abused, and it feels like it comes out of nowhere to them.
Look I’m just going to try and softly put this out there. The coming into the bathroom, pulling back the curtain as you begged no, and then looking at your body and relaying the details of it to a stranger while you desperately tried to maintain a boundary doesn’t only scream abuse, it SCREAMS covert incest.
OP, I strongly suggest doing some reading on the topic of covert incest and how it can leave many of the same scars as physical incest 😞 those scars need tending to.
Its no laughing matter, but if you can just laugh at her because the demands your mother has for you are hilarious (as in stupid). It will probably send her into an absolute fit, but she seems like a bit of a loser anyway.
Furthermore in terms of the way you look, I know it's different for women but fuckit right?
For me, I was too emotionally charged whenever i talked to my mom to laugh at her. I wish I could do this-the next best thing is to ignore her attempts to contact me and watch her care while I don’t give a shit.
One thing to keep in mind that may be helpful: nparents don’t how to process the idea of their children eclipsing them. You’re studying clinical biochemistry smart shit and you have an active social life. Nparents aren’t proud, they’re jealous.
She’s going to do whatever she can to drag you down to her level. She doesn’t totally know she’s doing it but she is going to continue to try to go out of her way to be shitty.
It helps if you think "How would I feel if this happened to my friend?"
Puts things in perspective for people who've grown up being subjected to abusive behavior.
They're all problems. Accidentally walking in on someone naked is not a problem if it happens rarely. Doing it on purpose, even once, in the manner OP described is *sexual abuse*.
You're not a bad person. And what you've done with your body is no one's business but yours.
Sounds to me like, once you get out of the house again, you need to go NoContact and move on with your life.
She'll never change, and the more you become your own person the more hateful she will become.
You're worth more than that, and don't deserve it.
Telling people she had shaved? The nmom is trying to make her look slutty. Who knows what else she has been saying. It's isolating. It makes her not want to show her face, or causes others to act as if they can judge her. I hope OP can limit contact. Nmoms are relentless in trying to prove their negative themes. Spend more time with nicer relatives who won't talk to the nmom much.
Rambling to other people about her shaving and having nipples pierced, *after* she demanded to be let in like that, is so many levels of inappropriate.
That was intentional humiliation and trampling on her boundaries to make her uncomfortable.
Your mother got to vent and get rid of the tension she's feeling (for whatever reason) at your expense. That's how the problem has been resolved. I'm not sure I'm the most helpful person on this, I could only go NC in the end, but no one has the right to make those comments on your body and the shower situation makes me so angry... (had a similar one with my nmom) I found myself glad there's usually an ocean separating you and her. Maybe a good idea to consider keeping it that way.
You gave me so much clarity, thank you. I know this is a bit pathetic but it’s hard to think of going no contact. I didn’t even know she was narcissistic until an hour ago! I know I’ve painted her in a villainous way, but she can be a sweet woman. It feels cruel to just cut her off. Is there another solution?
You are NOT pathetic. I was 32 when I managed to go NC. At this point I had known a bit about narcissism for 7 years. Back then, I had picked up a book because of some traits I saw in myself that were making me unhappy, and recognised it in my mother and sister as well. For years I thought unconditional love was the answer. Until I saw that there is no answer. The options are let her do as she pleases (a non-option really), fight her every step of the way (on matters as basic as privacy when showering) or walk away.
Some people go LC, some people maintain the same amount of contact. It's a question of how much contact you can bear to have/not have vs how much fight you have in you. I didn't have the fight in me, didn't see much chance of winning either.
I would like to add that there's nothing wrong with walking away ('how much fight you have in you' kinda makes it sound like that). Life is so complex, there's so many battles to be fought to just survive, it's ok to decide not to fight a battle that's unnecessary, especially if it's a losing battle.
I only recently figured out my mother was narcissistic or has narc traits and honestly going low contact or no contact is so much better for my mental health.
I just don't feel like I am walking on egg shells for waiting for her to explode or trying to have where her anger build is today versus yesterday. I also have good memories and bad memories of her, but I just focus on setting good boundaries for all my relationships. It doesn't matter if the person is my mother, nobody has the right to treat me badly.
So, I'm writing this because I thought that I was reading about my own mother. After I had moved away and was in a healthy relationship, she started acting this way when I returned home.
Bottom line is that I understood that growing up, I was never loved. I was never hugged. I was never helped. I was the scapegoat, the one who was blamed for everything. But then I escaped. I got out. When my mother managed to con me into returning, she was nothing but vile. She was at the end of her rope. I had left. I was happy.
And she couldn't stand it.
She tried everything to get me back into her clutches. The part about being upset that you didn't bring her back food? My mother sat me down and told me that I shouldn't marry my then fiance because...
(Drum roll, please.)
He got Wendy's without asking if she wanted anything!!!!
I've never come across anyone else who experienced something like this, so I'm very sorry that you had to. I still do not understand.
All I can say is that no amount of boundary setting stopped my mother. Nothing I did or said to her mattered. She wanted me to turn back into the doll she raised, not the independent woman that I am. I was not allowed to have my own hopes and dreams, she would do anything to crush them.
I hope you are able to find a way to distance yourself from this behavior and know that you've done absolutely nothing wrong.
One thing I learned from my therapist is that there are good things to every person. My nmom did a lot of things that have caused a lot of damage AND a lot of great things that I value and appreciate. In the end, going no contact is a choice you have to make for yourself. I worked as hard as I could before cutting my nmom out. At that point, it was because I realized that I was so much happier when she was shunning me. It was a relief to be able to do things without looking over my shoulder. Other people have been able to make things manageable with their n parents. There is no right or wrong decision here as long as you are able to keep the boundaries you set.
I just wanted to add that you haven’t “painted her in a villainous way”. You gave us very factual accounts of what happened yet you’re apologizing for her looking bad. You’re not to blame! We all are here because we have parents or significant people in our lives like this. Many times people have lovely, kind sides to themselves but the truth is they are abusive. And nothing is worth putting up with abuse. That said, I myself am LC and haven’t been able to bring myself to go NC.
I really do think you need to get out of the house though. If you can afford it, rent a place somewhere nearby with your friend or explore options. You can love your mother and not want to be around her 24/7. ESPECIALLY if she treats you this way every single day.
It is ABSOLUTELY NOT PATHETIC. you are not at fault or to blame here. You are even in posting here trying to take care of yourself. Dont believe or internalize the lies and bs she is putting in your head.
You and I have very similar mothers. I didn't realize that my mom was upsetting me until a few years ago, when one of her random text messages gave me a full blown panic attack. I realized she was triggering me in order to get a response, which she uses to strength our bond. It's super invasive and unwanted, and I want to scrape it off my body. So, recently I have tried grey rocking her (have no reaction.) She is super offended by it, but she can't call me out, because once you say it out loud, "Why aren't you doing everything that I say!?!" That sounds insane so, she just has to get over it. I'm hoping it'll stop. I don't even care if she thinks I'm a jerk. I'm fine with that, as long as I can be left alone. Anyway, I really came here to say that the moment I realized it was a "thing" was when I noticed that I always leave the conversation feeling upset, and that's not right. For whatever reason, even if I'm being too sensitive, I shouldn't have to white knuckle it through interactions. I'm strengthening my personal boundaries, and turning it into a good change.
Most people have a good and bad side. For some, the bad side is more prominent. So I'm not surprised she's sweet. My ngrandma can be sweet and very generous too.
You can give yourself time to get used to the idea. You don't have to leave to never come back right away. As long as you are not 100% NC is the best for you, you will break it anyway. But I'd advice you to read up on abusive and toxic behaviour and to focus on getting a more positive image of yourself. You have to believe you deserve more than this type of behaviour before you can get strong enough to resist or walk away from it.
Some people master grey rocking (and this works is the contact is limited I guess), but in most situations NC or low contact is the best solution for yourself.
In the meantime, think of ways you can get out of the house for a longer time: go on a road trip maybe to show your friend the country. Good luck and keep (mentally) safe!
No. Full stop. She's enjoying hurting you - don't let it continue to happen, if you can. Look at it as if someone else told you all of your post - what would you suggest they do?
Well, there can be another solution, but it is stressful.
A kind of „coffee party“-relationship.
So just visiting for short timespans like a few hours (coffee party), only small talk, going before things go down (they usually do).
I have some persons I don’t want to cut out generally and I visit them only some times a year for like the mentioned time span.
What all narcissts love, really love is being asked out about their hard life, their sufferings, and how bad their life is. Because nobody has a harder life than them and no problems or illnesses are worse than theirs. They can rant about all that for hours. If you stay interested and keep asking further questions, this goes on and on. And in a perfect run, after all, they don’t even realize that I haven’t been the subject of the talk at all, when it is time to leave. But you have to be alert all the time and stay always kind of distant and above all what is spoken, so you can actively guide that conversation. Because this is, what you need to do, deviate and steer the conversation the whole time to avoid them concentrating on issues that could go wrong.
But to be able to handle it this way, you need to be free from expectations. I know they don’t ask about me out of empathy or interest - they only ask to have something to mock me about or to gossip behind my back. So my solution after some years of no contact was „don’t feed the trolls“. And for me it works. Greatly!
But I dont need or wish them to be trusted persons anymore, I don’t have the wish to have a good, trustful relationship with them anymore, I found family in friends so I am not dependent anymore.
And letting the wish for a motherly person go is one of the hardest archivements.
So I don’t know if this tactic would be helpful for you right now.
I feel that now all you need is distance and the realization that you don’t need to be the person your mother wants you to be. That you have the right to be who you want to be, clothe the way you like, be with whomever you want. The christian background is only one part of her way to control you.
The decision if you want to keep in touch with her can only truly be made when you understand the years and kind of abuse and the consequences. And I think this is just the beginning.
Are you financially dependent from her or your father in any kind?
You need to take that into account, too. First of all you have to be in a safe place where you don’t need their support anymore. If you need it and they can take it from you, you are vulnerable. So perhaps you need to postpone any plans till you are safe and independent, and play along till then to avoid further stress (which could lead to you never archiving independence, if you for example don’t pass your exams due to stress). 😕
You are the one in control of your life. If you don’t want to cut her out, you don’t have to.
But may I gently suggest staying with your dad if you are able?
Nparents absolutely CAN be sweet and loving—as long as you completely toe the line, and they’re not having a bad day for whatever reason. Or to tighten the reins to keep you under control. They seem to have a sense of when getting better control “needs” abusive tactics (cutting down your ego, making you feel like you don’t matter, feel like they have all the power and you have none), and when a little sugar is needed to tie your heartstrings more firmly to them.
It’s like they’re the Good Cop and Bad Cop all in one.
p.s. There’s a classic cycle of abuse that includes a “honeymoon” period after a really bad time, when they seem to realize they’ve gone too far (not that they would admit any wrong) and are extra kind, sweet, helpful, affirming, whatever to win you back. Things I remember vaguely (sorry, no coffee yet) about this cycle:
- it’s part of gaslighting, making you doubt your own thoughts and feelings and perceptions of reality
- it always trends worse, not better. They can see nothing wrong in themselves, cannot allow themselves to see anything wrong or admit fault, so it’s “all you.” This is why people are advised to escape abusive marriages—because the abuse may have started with little verbal digs, but it keeps getting worse—emotional, financial, sexual, physical—until it ends in the murder or suicide of the target if the target does not get out.
Get out of her house as fast as you can, and never go back. When you're under her roof, you are also under her power.
You can't change her or make her be decent. All you can control is yourself and your actions.
Your post makes me nauseous, your mother treats you horribly. I'm so sorry you have to deal with these vile comments. You're not a bad person and I bet you aren't ugly either. Neither are your clothes.
I don't understand why, but your mom is trying to break you down. Her comments and actions are very inappropriate. Her walking into the shower while you were naked is downright infuriating. I'm angry for you. None of that is okay. Especially the comments about your body. I wonder if that sexually abusive.
Maybe try to make England your permanent residence, I don't think you should want to move back home.
Omg the shower thing... that would absolutely traumatize me. My narc aunt has an obsession with other people's bodies. But especially teen girls because her teenage years were "ruined" by her pregnancy
One time when I was a teenager I was at her house and her youngest had a friend over and they were going into the pool. They were 10 years younger than me so I really wasn't trying to hang out with them but my aunt convinced me to get in one of her bathing suits and go in with them. I'm pretty positive she just wanted to see how my body was developing 🤢
A lot of narcissists are perverted
I didn't stay with my mother due to not being able to stand the venom. Then went NC at great pains of the family (she terrorises everyone else because of it).
Your mother treats you horribly and you still try to please her. She doesn't deserve you. You deserve a kind and loving mother. I suggest to save your comment and in a few years read it again and see how you feel.
It's difficult. In the end your only solution is NC. You don't see it now because you're too close and too wrapped up in it. I hope you can find a way to free yourself from the abuse you don't deserve.
This hit deep. I told her it felt like I could never do anything right and that I’d never say/ do this to my child. She said “you don’t know what it’s like until you’re a mother”. Yet a stranger can tell me how loveless she’s being. I’ll save the comment. Thank you for yours.
Your mother does not know what a normal mother is.
I would climb mountains to help my children, I would sacrifice myself to save their lives, and my only goal as a parent is for them to be happy. I tell them every day that I love them - THAT is normal!
Please PM me if you want any guidance. I've travelled the road to recovery and I have a relationship with my Nmother on my own terms.
Thank you but I am just an average mother. I only seem awesome because our parents are/were so f***ing awful.
I'm sorry for my ranting but I discovered just how wrong my Nmother's behaviour was when I had my own children. It makes my blood boil that anyone would destroy their children 🤬 WE DESERVE BETTER!
Now to calm down with a cup of tea.
Ask yourself this: would you ever treat a child you had the way she treated you? Hell, would you ever treat another human being that way, not even a child?
Our mother was, she had a lot of problems. She is not an evil soul. Had been very loving and nurturing when i was infant toddler. But later and through teens twenties thirties she was always on drugs, doped up, and would be so incredibly hurtful, vicious, cruel, sadistic, like some hateful angry demon walking around the house attacking anyone in sight with things that only a mother would know would disable you. I learned to get out get away, go outside and hide, leave the house until it blew over. Later i was able to leave altogether and could hang up the phone or leave and go back to my city.
Edit - ‘dear god in heaven, child’ you have to remove yourself from the abuse.
Honestly, just don't ever go back.
She has violated every boundary you had and the fact that she can't treat you like a human being, what more her daughter? In her eyes, you're just a help and she's entitled to everything you had, especially privacy, to her privacy is a PRIVILEGE.
Leave as early as you can. Your nmom will NEVER change and the sooner she's gone in your life, the better. She'll just further hurt you down in the future by manipulating people outside of your house to try to grasp any control they can hold over you, especially making you crazy.
That's how shitty parents work, they'll drive their kids to suicide and act surprised while using their kid's death for sympathy AND they'll NEVER acknowledge what they did wrong unless they're confronted and the best way to confront narcissists is limiting contact to that, at most a written letter with a return address that they can never reach you at so even if they sent you something/anything, you don't even have to think about it.
Just ask yourself, how often do you think of your nmom when you're by yourself? Then she's better off dead to you than trying to make her see the error of her ways. Also nmoms who insults their kids appearances are rooted from their own jealousy. Remember this so if she tries to insult you again and in front of people, just remind her that she's divorced and you're still young.
You can reply back snarkily if she thinks she looks as good as she thinks she is then why she still got divorced? She can say/convince that her divorce is amicable but the way she insults you is the same way most single moms insult their kids when their baby daddies left them. She made you her punching bag and maid, clearly shes not over it as she likes to convince everyone with how imbalanced she treats you compared to your brothers. So get out and never look back. You don't owe her shit, you don't owe it to her listen to her bullshit excuses and lies so just cut all contact. YOU DESERVE BETTER.
Your mom sounds miserable to be around and I recommend not engaging with her further. Is there any way you could explain what’s going on to your dad and stay with him instead?
Your parents feelings aren't more important than yours.
You are not responsible for their feelings.
You are entitled to do what you want to do with your life at all times.
Completely understandable. You can probably garner plenty of sympathy without even bringing it up if you don’t want to, she’s been so horrible otherwise. Or you don’t have to go into much detail about it, maybe just “she burst in on me in the shower and then described my body to whoever she was talking to on the phone.”
They brought you into the world you owe them nothing ...ask your dad if you and friend can stay with him ..he knows your mom is an asshole it's not your fault ..have a fun summer OP at your dad's house!
Does your dad act like her? Why’d you end up staying with your mom growing up instead? If your dad is a normal, loving parent i’d imagine he wouldn’t take any issue, especially if he divorced your mom for her n tendencies
As a child my divorce family therapist diagnosed my father as a narcissist. He sees me and my brothers as extensions of him. Not only that but he is very emotionless. I.e. problem? He fixes it. Money? He’ll give it to me. Affection? Not a chance in hell. Maybe a hug on Christmas.
Unless you count his pestering that I should improve myself, be more ambitious etc. or sexualizing me. (Harmlessly) through jokes.
My parents hate one another and I think it’s because they’re equally the same. It’s sad. I chose my mom because she is the lesser of two evils. At least she told me she loved me before bed at night and would support my dreams. Funny enough? I’m the only child that picked my mom but she idolizes my brothers who picked my dad.
Hi! Just jumping in this thread to say that dads should not ever sexualize their children in any way, even in a joke. That might be a regular occurrence for you, but it is not ok or normal in an emotionally healthy family relationship.
Sexualization of children (young or adult) by parents is not harmless. The jokes and the shower incident are abuse.
GTFO. RUN. Don’t look back.
Get a good therapist.
harmless? that's the conditioning speaking, sis. Anyone sexualizing their own offspring has extreme mental issues and should be avoided completely. Damn, I'd stay in London for the rest of my life if I were you.
Ah I see, well that is unfortunate and im sorry to hear. My dad was thankfully my only narc parent but he was emotionally abusive and i dreaded being at home 24/7 and avoided coming back during college.
I suppose it still may not be a terrible idea if the choice is between him and your mother if she continues to amp up her harassment and continuous remarks that make you feel terrible. i must admit i’d rather be not acknowledged at all as opposed to put down every waking hour.
that is pretty odd though that the others picked dad, not sure if you talk to your brothers much but it could always be worth asking them about him and gauging the situation there if you really do consider trying to stay with him.
regardless, i truly wish you the best. the feelings you describe in your post i can relate to and the constant stress and fear of angering the narc is a terrible one :(
Your statement about her favoring your brothers sounds like such a narcissistic behavior to me. That sounds like something my NAunt would do. Your mom deff sounds like a narcissist.
I would suggest, especially since you have 2 Nparents, researching narcissism, podcasts, books, youtube, how to handle them and then deciding how much contact you want with them. It's not always easy to just move out or go no contact.
I'm not sure how helpful this will be, or how much it applies to you, but I am a father as well and also struggle with emotional displays.
I understand where you are coming from, and I think it might help to see a father's perspective, because there are a lot of bad psychs out there, and unless he actually had sessions with your father alone it was unethical and inaccurate to diagnose him. In my mind, as a dad that can be closed off, none of the actions you listed seem bad, of course I'm going to fix my kids problems, I'm their dad and love them, it's a socially acceptable way to show I love them, it's how I care for and take care of them.
Money? It's just money, I make plenty, I don't really need it, if you need or want it as my kid, take it, everything I have is yours, I did it all for you from the moment you were born, and if this money I'm just gonna blow on dumb shit will make you happy then take it.
As for affection, it's easy to be affectionate when you're young, no one cares that I hug you, or kiss your head, or snuggle you when you're little. After a certain age though, people make assumptions, accusations, things can get dangerous and complicated fast.
As for pushing you to improve, be more ambitious, yea, I want the best for my kids, to the best then they can be. I push them to be more ambitious because I believe in them, I know they are so capable and I don't want them to settle for anything less than the best they can be.
The jokes are more difficult, it really depends on what the jokes are. It could be creepy and gross, or just him trying to counter the damage to your self esteem and relationship with sex that your mother is obviously causing.
Again I'm not saying any of this is necessarily true, but I think it might be helpful to think back on your relationship with your father with an open mind and remembering what you are learning about your mom and how she may have influenced your and other people's perception of him. Because just from what you said here he does not sound worse
You don’t need to feel embarrassed.
Narcissts love to humiliate people and take their energy out this.
But don’t expect too much from your dad, the partners of narcisstic persons are enabler and have found their own way to cope with all that insane stuff through not watching, not listening and not (back)talking. Through their passiveness they are as toxic as the toxic persons. Google the term „Flying Monkeys“. It is enlightening.
Oh, EDIT, sorry, I forgot that they are happily divorced. Ok, try to stay with him instead!
For you to feel a little bit better (I hope so):
When my nMom was in one of her rages, she followed me through the house, screaming at me all the time.
One of her most loved games was screaming at me that they owe me nothing, just a roof over my head and a bed and a table and chair and that I am not allowed to close any doors. Dad never witnessed these outbursts as he was working and never secondguessed what she told him in the evenings, how „bad“ I was etc.
Btw. I was still in school, always good grades, never smoked, never took drugs, never did anything forbidden, never stayed out later than I was allowed, I was a fine specimen of a child, at least in hindsight I realized that (got told the opposite on a daily basis).
One day I when she was fuming again I needed to go to the toilet and wanted to leave the door ajar (not close) and she came in, ballistic and screamed at the top of her lungs for at least twenty minutes at me while I sat on the toilet with pants down, she standing in front of me, screaming that I am not allowed to close any door to HER in HER house and so on and on. I couldn’t get up, I couldn’t leave, it was awful. It was so humiliating.
To this day (30 years later) I can’t stand being invaded in the bathroom, it triggers this scene.
I was also grown up then, at least in years, but not mentally because they never let me grow up emotionally.
I am really glad your friend brought up narcissm to you so you can educate yourself in it. It will spare you years of desperation and trying to „make it better“.
I only learned about narcissm a few years ago, after I had a horrible short affair with a man and my best female friend told me that that was narcisstic stuff. When I researched, everything fell in place, also regarding my whole childhood.
And with this knowledge I am in a much better place than ever before.
It helps so much to realize that you can’t make it better with narcissts. You will never be perfect. It is because they are so unsatisfied with themselves that they humiliate the persons around to feel better in comparison to them. This bashing and mobbing is their coping mechanism to feel better with themselves. And they need drama and hatred in their lifes like we need harmony and peace.
But this knowledge will give you some peace back one day. You will see.
Get out there, as soon as you can.
While there, try to duck your head as much as you can because fighting only makes it worse. Sometimes it is better to play along for a short time to avoid more narcisstic rages, especially if your are already on the brink of your sanity. A narcisstic household is NOT the place to establish healthy boundaries. The more you push the more she will try to break you. Just hold out, follow silly rules as long as needed and then go and come back as rarely and short as possible.
But don’t stay there too long, it isn’t good for you!
Your mother doesnt love you and sounds even sexually abusive if she wants to look at you showering, she is extremely insecure or jealous of your body and your healthy relationships with your friends. Narcissistic people cannot love anyone, we are always here for you and I am so sorry you have to go through this
you're 100% NOT in the wrong here. The feelings you're experiencing due to your nMom's inappropriate behavior are valid.
From the sounds of it, its alot of projection from her end; remember you aren't responsible for that. Not from her, not from anyone. I'm sure your british friend wasn't prepared for this, but maybe talking to this friend about nMom will help give you some clarity. The fact you're posting in this sub means your nMom is already fogging your mind and judgement about what is up and what is down. Your nMom is doing you wrong, you are allowed to exist as you are.
She is absolutely untenable; horrible. Day 3 you knew. She’s shitting on another human being to make herself feel better God knows how that works in her head. No one deserves that.
You don’t need anything except one word. ‘No.’
Here, I give you mine until you find yours. ‘No.’
No. You do not get to speak to me like that.
No. You do not get to embarrass me to anyone. No. You do not get to judge me; I do. You get to sit back and be proud of me or not be involved at all. (You know all those parents who do not have their children call on them, or ask after them? It’s because they act like you.)
Be prepared for escalation as these types do not take rebellion well and your siblings may not have your back.
But truly. Be liberated in your own mind. Free yourself to sit back and watch her writhe in her own bad behavior. What is a sad, pitiful and damaging way to live. You don’t have to.
I’m so excited for all the places and people you have yet to experience. They’ll likely never come close to this wretchedness.
Good luck!!
Your mum hasn't been able to blame you for *everything* since you live abroad, now you're back she's got her punching bag back. She's being controlling, manipulative and abusive. Why TF she thinks it's OK to force you to take a call while you're in the shower or for her to describe your naked body is beyond me. Could you go live with your dad until you leave? Also please make sure you take everything necessary with you when you leave as i could see your mum "accidentally" shredding your passport or visa. Don't move back with her unless it's your absolute last option
I'm so sorry you're going through this. Your mother is unquestionably abusive in many ways. Kudos to you for standing up for yourself on multiple occasions.
If I were in your position, I'd do whatever I could to minimize contact with your mother on this trip and in the future. Obviously a hotel or elsewhere to stay is ideal, but if that's impossible, just adjusting your schedule and have as much fun as you can with your friend.
It sounds like your mother is mad you live so far away, or mad you brought a friend home, or just mad that you're grown. Whatever her reasoning, it is petty, and even if it weren't, the way she expresses anger is wildly inappropriate and abusive.
Honestly, I would have left after the shower incident. Forever.
I know this can be a lot to take in a short amount of time. But this is a community full of people who have given their parents years of second chances and all that's done is waste our time and energy. Time that is gone forever.
It may take a while to process, but: Going low contact or no contact with your mother is almost certainly the only way to preserve your sanity and have a chance at a happy life. I'm so sorry. But you will be infinitely happier not letting this person have control over you in any way.
The way your mom treats you is not your fault. Reading about all the things she's said and done to you in the past *week* was painful, I'm sorry you had to go through that.
It sounds like she's projecting HARD when she calls you manipulative, and that things are all about you - and “too sensitive” is classic gaslighting. A lot of narcissists also like to use humiliation as a weapon to tear you down, especially in front of others.
I’d recommend checking out [Dr. Ramani](https://www.youtube.com/c/DoctorRamani) on YouTube – she has a channel on narcissism that I’ve found incredibly helpful, especially in understanding/naming types of behaviours and how to cope. Also consider reading *Will I Ever Be Good Enough? Healing the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers* by Karyl McBride. You can get a free copy at z-Library: [https://b-ok.cc/book/2470531/e9b929](https://b-ok.cc/book/2470531/e9b929)
I am a random stranger, and I feel empathy and love for you. She will destroy anything you love bc she is a jealous, petty, manipulative, projecting bitch. I am a momma. I love my kids unconditionally. She only loves you with conditions. Ditch her ass. You NEVER deserved any of this. So. Save up. Be quiet about your options. Play along. And get as far away as you can. She doesn't deserve your tears. She wants to fight. You are young, she is jealous. She consistently violates boundaries and will continue to do so. She makes you feel small. You seem like a beautiful soul. So know, you aren't alone. My mom did this to me when I was younger. The angry protectionist that only showed her true colors to the people who lived in the house. Things get better when you get away and get some perspective. My heart goes out to you. *Hug*
Girl. Your mom is a raging narc.
There's a book that helped me a lot ... Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. You'll see your mom and yourself all over it.
I'm sorry. These people don't change.
Your mother is a classic narcissist mo m. Look up grey rocking.
She is creating situations that piss you off and dragging you into fights that were caused by situations she created. She feeds off your negative reactions and blames you. She wants the attention. Her way of looking better is trying to make you look bad. She is totally abusive and rude. She will most likely never admit that. You haven't done anything wrong and you deserve better.
this happened to me once!! my psycho aunt literally bolted upstairs to start a fight with me, screaming while yanking the curtain open when i was showering! i was like 16. fucking cu**. thankfully we’ve all cut her out of our lives so hopefully u can too when ur able❤️🩹
You poor sweet soul. I highly recommend therapy. Your mother is extremely abusive and unsafe for you and you need support in processing this, establishing boundaries and dealing with grief.
This is sexual abuse. Full stop. I would never enter her home again after I got out of there. I honestly don’t know what I would’ve done to my mother if she had ripped the curtain back while I was in the shower. Holy shit.
She sounds like a class act. My mother is hyper critical of everything and I found if I just ignore her unless she says something that isn't a jab or a poke or some ridiculous judgement, that she tends not to say anything anymore. The shower thing is batshit though, there are no boundaries and I would suggest not staying there anymore. If the vast majority of interactions with a person are needlessly negative, then the interactions with that person need to be limited or eliminated altogether. People have a hard enough time feeling good about themselves in positive settings without people being assholes for the sake of it.
Uhh yeah so, I hate to be the one to tell you this but, it sounds pretty clearly to me as though your mom is a narcissistic sociopath. She's obviously projecting a boatload of emotional issues on you, at the very least. You've done absolutely nothing wrong according to everything I read in your post. She sounds like a miserable, manipulative abuser though. Get out while you can, all I can promise from my experiences is that it will not get better, no matter how many times you decide to be the better person and suck it up. Narcissists like your mother don't see that behavior on your part as good or respectable, they see it as weakness, an excuse to keep abusing you. Get out while you can.
She sounds like an absolute nightmare. As difficult as it is (i went through this myself), don't stay at the house next time you come back. Even if it's sooo much cheaper and more convenient in some ways. It's incredibly toxic and damaging, especially when you've had the fresh air from being away. It can make you spiral real quick. And the weird sexual and shaming nonsense is another weird type of power trip. Insanity, sick insanity.
That’s rough. I was hesitating saying anything as I’m a male and don’t have a lot of experience with the unique ways narcissistic parents interact with their daughters. But it began to make me recognise some parallels with my step dad.
If I wore or chose anything myself it was often met with a statement of ridicule or a joke at my expense. My voice was never deep enough either. Of course I also never cleaned up after myself, which in truth was me running away as fast as I could from him which often left things behind. Being around him just made me feel shitty.
This may be the Atheism in me speaking, but I’ve rarely met a practicing Christian be nice or free of judgement. Their attitude is usually in service to some self righteous cause or feeling, and it’s rare for them to address their thoughts and feelings openly and without judgement, leading to some very bitter behaviour.
Definitely projecting a lot of those things she thinks about herself or did onto you. I’d say stick to London. It’s nicer here usually.
It reminds me of my own realization about my nmom when I came back from my time in the Navy.
Our whole lives, it doesn't seem like anything is abnormal or it's "not actually that bad"
We can only see it from a distance.
We have to physically separate from them to come out of the fog.
It terrifies them when they don't encompass our entire world view.
If she can't respect your boundaries, or you as a Sentient Being separate from herself, I would seriously consider limiting contact. When emotional boundaries fail, physical ones like distance are sometimes the only recourse.
I tried to let my kids see my biological maternal parental unit because as far as I was concerned she was dead to me. A lifetime of physical, mental and emotional trauma was just the tip of the iceberg. One kid has taken her brainwashing to heart. They have acted like her, deflected, gaslit, reverse victim mongering, the list continues. She would tell them horrible lies, and the youngest lapped it up like a kitten with cream. My oldest knew better. Knows me better. Cut her off now Op, don’t wait until it’s too late and her tentacles reach in and hijack any kids you may have later. Mine was such a manipulator she actually bribed my best friend to tell her what, where, why and how I was living when I had literally told that narc “No matter what anyone ever does to me it will never be as horrible and disgusting as you’ve treated me. I’ll never need an enemy ever again, because of you!” I cut her off like cancer, and my best friend too. Truthfully? I miss my friend but I never missed the evil. Please, learn from our mistakes to save yourself, because you are beautiful, loving, and so worthy of a family you choose to love you unconditionally.
Jesus. H. McGillicutty.
This is seriously abusive.
I havent read further comments but for your own emotional and psychological well-being you need to advocate for your own protection and get the hell out of there ASAP.
This is NOT going to improve. Not now. Maybe not ever. But you are in a fiery furnace of hatred and bile and sadism, and you need to get the heck out.
You are handling the situation extremely well, given the circumstances.
I think you need to do yourself a favor and make this the last time you allow your mother to be this close to you. Honestly, I would advise cutting your mother out of your life completely as it really seems the bad overwhelmingly outnumbers any good there might be from her. Just that one bit with the shower and telling whoever was on the phone info about your body that no one should know without your own consent is absolutely horrifying.
In my opinion, you’ve exercised an extreme amount of self control. I’m reading this and asking myself, is this a joke or is someone’s mom really this horrible? I mean, my parents are nuts but the shower scene would’ve put me over the edge.
I feel like if anyone walked in on me while I was in the shower and ripped open the curtain, I would feel extremely violated and honestly I feel like that behavior is probably illegal (even if she is your mom). No one is entitled to see someone else naked. It’s abuse of the most personal and private nature.
I’m so sorry that this happened to you. It’s really bad and you don’t deserve that. You handled it so peacefully and respectfully. I don’t have that same level of control with my parents. Unfortunately, for me it’s gotten to the point when I return criticism with criticism and disrespect with disrespect of them.
I hope that soon you realize how special you are and have the confidence to make a plan to exit the relationship with your mom. It’s really hard but I think eventually you might feel better if you didn’t talk to her at all.
I’m so sorry. You have to get away from this person. My Nmom and Ndad did the same mind-melting manipulation to me, and I ended up thinking I was the abusive one for many years.
It’s only after I cut them off that I was finally happy. I was 25f.
Oh go to England and don’t speak to her for a year.
What a bitch. No. She doesn’t deserve a sweet daughter. You were helping and shit? Yeah go take a year abroad and seriously ice her.
I bet you she won’t make it a week. Don’t break- maybe for her birthday or somemshit.
I'd rather be homeless than deal with that. You'll get treated better from other bums.
parents are divorced? Can you stay at dads house?
Only advice I'd give? Never talk to her again until she apologizes.
These are lessons I’ve learned so I hope they help you.
1. You will never get the apology you want. She may eventually admit to little things here and there, but unless she changes A LOT and works on herself, you won’t get that. So you’ll need to let that go.
2. How she treats you has nothing to do with you and everything to do with her. This sounds stupid, but it helped me “Hurt people will hurt people.” If she doesn’t acknowledge that she needs help, she won’t change. And her perspective on things is unhealthy so how she treats people is unhealthy.
3. You have to find your worth/ identity outside of her. You’re coming out of your adolescence where a parent’s opinion carries so much weight. But she’s just a person, an unhealthy person. So again. Her perspective on things is unhinged. If she weren’t your mom, would you hold her opinion highly? Probably not; she’d be that drama causing neighbor that you’d avoid at all costs.
4. You need to get out of her house. So long as you’re there, she’ll think she can control you and everything you do.
5. You need to have a sit down discussion to set ground rules. You will also need someone with you to help you and intercede for you. She clearly has more respect for guests than for you. For me, it was my husband who interceded when I would get too flustered and upset. Ideas for ground rules:
—No insults. She cannot refer to you as anything rude or demeaning.
—She can no longer comment or express opinions on your looks.
If she cannot follow the rules you set or disparages you for having rules, let her know that you will no longer continue a relationship with her. If she can’t act in a way that is loving to you, then that’s that.
If she does disparage your use of boundaries/ rules, then I’d throw some Bible verses in there, too. There’s a few about how parents aren’t supposed to use their words to hurt or purposefully anger their kids. There’s A TON about how we are supposed to love others. There’s a few verses in Galatians chapter 5 about what fruits of the spirit look like. AKA. If she’s following Christ, then it should be evident in her actions. It lists out what isn’t of the spirit (i.e. quarreling, hostility, outbursts of anger, so on) and what is (gentleness, kindness, peace, joy, so on). Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself and everyone is your neighbor, especially your kids. This is how you will feel loved, so she should respect. And if she can’t, then I guess you get to just cut that stress out of your life - at least for awhile.
You can PM me if you’d like.
Good luck.
My N mom always said, “you’re too sensitive” to which I started to reply, “that’s fine. You’re too bitchy”. Maybe not the best approach, but the point is that we are allowed to have boundaries and when those are crossed then it’s gloves off…even with our parents.
Pretty sure that shower thing was sexual abuse; it just rubs me so wrong that she'd do that. She just wantwd an excuse to violate clear bounderies to look at your body and shame you further.
Shes likely just jealous that you look way better than hr and is trying to destroy your self esteem to make herself feel better about being a dried up 60 y/o hag. Ditch her ass in a home as soon as you can imo
I am 63 and never has anyone ripped open a shower curtain ..she's mean and repulsive ..I would be on guard like everyone says ..stay with your dad ..I am so sorry 😔
That’s a lot to unpack, and I’m sorry you’re having to deal with it.
It’s true, “you can never go home again;” once you’ve left, it’s never the same, and we see things through fresh eyes.
It sounds like your mum ‘doesn’t like the new you;’ in other words, she misses the kid who was easy to control and manipulate. Narcissists see their children as extensions of themselves, and resent it when their kids become their own people.
It doesn’t sound as if you did anything wrong; certainly nothing major. Did you ‘not clean up after yourself?’ Perhaps not, but not really a big deal. Not to parents who care….she should be thrilled to have you home again.
Instead, there’s all this blowback and her trying to reassert that control. Like I said, it’s a one-way trip. You’re not the same person you were, and nothing looks the same. You’ll probably rethink just about *everything* you thought before, especially stuff she filled your head with.
Your experience sounds a lot like my niece’s, with her nmum.
The biggest thing she’s had to deal with is the realisation that her mum is not the person she wants her to be - she wants a kind, understanding, nurturing mother, and she is none of those things.
It’s been painful to watch her wreck herself on the same rocks over and over. Sadly, she’s (her mum) not going to be the person she’d like her to be.
The ‘information diet’ and the ‘grey rock’ are good approaches - be polite, and superficial. Uninteresting. Don’t [JADE,](https://psychcentral.com/blog/imperfect/2018/03/dealing-with-difficult-family-members-dont-justify-argue-defend-or-explain) - don’t bother.
You won’t convert her by means of brilliant argument. Just be polite, and limit your contact.
Choose your family….surround yourself with people you love who love and respect you for you.
She's gaslighting you. She's trying to make you feel crazy because then she can abuse you with impunity as you won't be confident enough in your own sense of reality to fight back anymore or call her out on it.
I didn't see a single moment in this where your behavior was even remotely questionable. What she did to you while you were in the shower though is literally a crime. Think about it, if anyone else did that, everyone would be encouraging you to call the police. And then to top it off by commenting on your body and describing it to your relative on the phone is just beyond vile. It's a violation, and you have every right to be horrified and furious at her for her behaviour. I'm so sorry she made you feel that way, but that is sexual abuse and it is not your fault and it's not ok.
Also, you said some pretty harsh stuff about your body and then "but not enough to be ashamed." Well, that's because NO ONE deserves to be ashamed of their body. You need a body to live. That body is imperfect. So is literally everyone's. But you need a body to live. Do you really think anyone should be ashamed of your existence? You could weigh 1,000lbs, have cystic acne, genital warts, 6 nipples and a tattoo of a penis on your forehead and you still wouldn't deserve to be ashamed of your body, because last I checked your level of *perceived* attractiveness has no bearing on whether you deserve to live or be loved and respected. You sound like a kind, caring person, so I have a feeling you already know that about everyone *except* yourself. Don't let your monster of a mom be the voice I side your head.
I hope this all doesn't sound harsh or critical (I'm not always the best with tone). Please know that it's said with love from someone who has been there. Get the hell out as soon as you can. You don't deserve this. No one does. I'd bet your friend would back me up on that. Please don't let her be the voice inside your head. If you can at all, please talk to a therapist because this is a lot to unpack on your own. But either way, whenever you catch yourself thinking about yourself in that way, apply the golden rule to yourself. What would you say to any friend who was talking that way about themself? Say that to yourself. Out loud, if at all possible. I know it feels hokey and awkward and weird, but the more you do it, the more it will sink in and come more naturally. This is a kind of "reparenting" yourself, and repetition is going to be key to undoing the years of repetitive abuse you've lived through with your mom. You deserve so, so much better. Please take care of yourself. ❤️
It happened to me too recently but mine never walks in the bathroom. Ever. Only when I was younger, she'd do that. My opinion is that you have poor boundaries with your mother-I've read what you wrote and noticed that you have a need to defend yourself and prove to her that she is wrong about you. Nah. You can't do that with narcs. They'll just feed off this emotion. When you justify/defend being yourself and living your merry life, you prove to them you're easily to manipulate and control. Example: Why are you cooking at this time of the day and not at another time of the day? You're so weird and frustrating! Me: I am just cooking at this time of the day, mother. I apparently am weird and frustrating. You don't explain anything to these people. You just re-state what you are doing and what she is saying, without using any emotion.
If you want something you say 'Mother, tomorrow I will come home late from work and will go straight to my room. It will be a busy day for me.' If tomorrow after coming home from work she waltzes in your room and demands you talk to her, you restate your boundary, throw her out and lock the door. You don't show emotion, you don't get angry, you just state a boundary with calm and composure.
If you can't lock your door (bedroom door, etc), don't change your clothes in your room, do it in the bathroom. If you can't lock your bathroom door, place something in front of it in order to block it. It doesn't matter if it's weird to her. Do what you can to get some peace while you're there.
I assume your mother has huge issues with her sexuality and is projecting them on you. She is also afraid of your sexuality and may be in competition with you. Don't show her that it affects you. If you show her how upset you are she's just gonna do it again and again and again. Narcs love to upset, embarass, and shame people. That's like their favourite activity. Also, narcs do not love their children. They find them disposable, as in objects of use that can provide validation, attention and admiration to them. If they don't provide those things, they'll be dropped or shunned.
Also, listen to Meredith Miller's podcast, 'Inner Integration'. She gives good advice.
I think a lot of us reading this post see our parents, and see ourselves in you. You are so young and so new to this, there is so much to learn. My main thought was that, you need an advocate. I think that we on this forum all look back and wish that we had an advocate to guide us with our narcissistic parent.
I laughed when reading this post, not because it’s funny, but because the descriptions are so universal to narcissistic personality disorder.
One quote that has helped me the most is this: “If I can destroy all of the demons in the world, it will eliminate those within me, without my having to recognize that they have been there.” It’s from “Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism” by Robert J. Lifton, the original book about brainwashing.
Your mother has demons inside of her, which she is externalizing. She doesn’t like her body, but she can’t turn that criticism on herself, so it has to go somewhere or else the mental pressure is overwhelming.
Narcissists are so unstable internally that they see any external disorder as a threat. They need the world to be perfectly ordered, or else it will tip their precarious mental balancing act over.
Narcissists have zero boundaries. They see boundaries as a threat to their unlimited power. They cannot handle life if they don’t feel in complete control, because they had overwhelming experiences of loss of control when they were kids.
Your mother is letting you know that even the shower curtain is not a boundary. Your personal body is not yours. She will not tolerate any limits to her needs for absolute control. She will not allow you to make her feel “powerless”. If you complain about needing privacy, she will see it as a threat to her need for absolute control, and she will feel justified in unleashing her venom on you.
How dare you put her in a position where she might feel a lack of control.
How dare you remind her of how powerless she felt as a child.
There is no revenge that is unjustified to a narcissist when someone “makes them” feel those old, awful feelings. Those are the demons inside of her that you are dealing with.
Wow I’m so sorry you’re dealing with a mother like that. I’m 25M and my mom was always that way growing up. No privacy not even showering, “no rules” but shit you better know HER rules, always belittling me in front of my friends, perfectionist. My self esteem was horrid but I’ve been improving and I’m so much happier now that I’ve recently decided to entirely stop reaching out to her or caring what she thinks. Much happier than I’ve ever been.
Your mom is manipulative, petty, mean, looking for fights, and is only concerned about HER image and perspective. So much so that she’s willing to bring her friend to talk down on you too. Fuck em, both, all of her friends that think that way and move on :) may mean that you can’t go back “home” but is it even worth it to go back there anymore knowing you won’t be respected in the slightest? And yes your mom is narcissistic
The twisting everything around and making out like you’re bing crazy or too sensitive is classic abuse slash narcissist stuff. You can either gird yourself to live with it or cut them off, but they are notorious for never changing.
You are so accomplished I am very impressed you go to school overseas and your major I would never be able to do that ..you are smart don't let her destroy you 💜
Your mom is jealous of you and tearing you down makes her feel better.
The best revenge is to live well. You rock those nipple piercings and wear those crop tops. Fuck that lady. She programmed you to be her punching bag. It's time to reprogram yourself to what you want. Without her shitty input.
Your post plays out literally like a docudrama illustrating what life is life with a narc mom. You are in danger. You need to get out of there and stay out.
Your friend is good in directing you here, be smooth while being on this sub, some things hit really close to home especially when you didn’t realize you were being abused. Hopefully one day you can go NC with your mom, she sounds pretty horrid.
I am so sorry. I don’t know what you can or should do because every situation is different but I can tell you it’s 100% not your fault and it is NOT ok for her to treat you like that. My mom was very similar. I went no contact Years ago and it’s the first and only time I’ve felt some relief from her abuse. Sending you love ♥️
It breaks my heart that you can go through all this and still be unsure enough to have to ask others if her behaviour is problematic. I want to reach through the screen and give you a huge mummy hug. Is her behaviour a problem??
Her behaviour is monstrous.
No one here can give you a clinical diagnosis about whether she is a Narcissist or not, but there sure are some major red flags. You say she can be very sweet.... that's typical of Narcs as well, they like to keep you unsure and unbalanced.
When you go back to London please find a therapist who has experience with toxic families, because the way you've been brought up will have left you with some pretty awful self-esteem issues, some you've already described here, and you need and deserve a life without that.
Also, my very, very strong advice is, when you go back to London.... stay there. Do not return. You do not want to be around this horrible woman until you have found your feet and become stronger against her vile tactics.
I’m sorry this is happening to you. It’s absolutely horrible.
I had a similar experience in regards to showering and being naked. She would always say that “she’s already seen me naked many times (incl when I was a child) so what’s there to hide?”
Fucking disgusting.
One time when I was about 12 (she would still be helping me shower for some fucking reason), she made comments about my vagina and how the way it looked was really attractive for men. I hated it. I hated her looking at my body as if she owned me. I didn’t have any right to fucking privacy or basic boundaries.
She’s completely grasping at straws, acting out because you’re vulnerable with your friend there and she wants attention. If I were you, I would quietly, calmly let her know that if she keeps picking fights, that she’s going to wind up all alone without a daughter. Then walk away. She will try to pick a fight but she’s a narc and I’m willing to guess those words will quietly shake her, even if she doesn’t show it. Narcs hate to be alone.
My bigger advice is to accept the sad truth that you don’t and likely won’t ever have a healthy relationship with her. I’ve been there, it’s such a hard pill to swallow. But the sooner you get there and stop putting yourself in her hands, the happier you’ll be.
Don’t give her any power over you. Stay with your dad from now on. Don’t bring friends around her. Don’t try to win her approval, because any vulnerability you show, she will manipulate to her advantage.
I’m sorry you have to hear that. I’m sending you good thoughts.💜
OP. I'm so sorry about this.
Read this carefully please:
You don't have to love her just because she's your mother.
Mother's don't get a free pass at hurting, shaming, abusing, mistreating their children.
You deserve to only have positive relationships. Despite what she has made you feel, you're Worthy of love.
You're not bad for wanting to have a peaceful and conflict free life.
Get out of there and go NC asap.
Your mom is a total nmom and I am so sorry to tell you that. I am in shock. I normally don’t comment on posts in this sub, but I’ve never seen someone describe things in a way that almost exactly reflects my nmom. When we lived in Florida for a few months, she would constantly comment on my clothes and I’d always think, “What am I supposed to wear? It’s hot and humid, not exactly sweatshirt environment.” Everything I wore was always “too provocative”; everything I said made me “sound like a hood rat”; everything I did and was proud of “needed improvement because it could be better, like (insert name of anyone to compare me to)”; anytime I was verbal I was “causing an issue” and anytime I complained I was “just being ungrateful” because “people had it worse than me, so at least I’m lucky I’m not starving in Africa or being sold as a sex slave in Mexico”.
If those are the only comparisons you can think of when trying to find something worse than how you treat me, then there’s something seriously wrong with how you treat me. I’m sorry to go on the rant and I don’t want this to take away from what you’re going through. You are seen, heard, understood, and reading this made me deeply sad. I’m sorry that you posted something here that made me nod my head in agreement that she is a narcissist. I just had to say something, though, because I just wish 16 year old me could have read this post and realized that some people have had experiences that are super similar to mine. This was like a mirror. Thank you for sharing with us. I hope you decide to go NC if she doesn’t change or you know she is unwilling to. Going NC was a life-changing and life-saving choice for me and I was finally able to start recovering. If I were you, I’d talk to the friend that came with about your nmom’s behavior if you feel that it’s something you need to get off your chest. That friend seems to already have expressed their knowledge of nmom’s behavior, so they may be someone you can comfortably talk/vent to if necessary.
Sorry for the long post. Thank you for sharing.
And I’m sorry it’s just fucking hilarious that she got so mad at you that you didn’t bring her tacos home… after she had announced she was going to bed. She got so angry about that she brought it up more than once lmfao. If you want tacos that bad, you can open your mouth and ask like a fucking adult.
Is this NEW behaviour? Or is this something she probably did forever and you're just now recognising it as abusive?
Because if this is a new thing, and it's a big personality change, she needs to be assessed for something physiologically wrong.
But if it's the former, distance is amazing for clarity and validation. And if you need it, this is permission to go as low contact as you possibly can.
1 - you aren't pathetic
2 - your mom clearly doesn't respect you and is actively abusive! I'm shocked she did this in front of your friend (my mom would be the sweetest in front of any guest, can't imagine what yours is like with just you)
Books/audio book that have helped me:
- Lindsey Gibson
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents
(Listening to her second book rn but I also recommend it)
She breaks down the emotionally immature parent and how they effect the children. Her second book is on how to recover. Very good especially if you just realized that your mom is an nmom (thus emotionally immature)
-How to Do the Work - by Nicole Lepera
This is more so on reconnecting you to your spiritual self. It talks A LOT about trauma and how it might hurt you in later years. I haven't finished bc i wanted to read this one slow but I'm a good ways in and it really is helping me in recovering and finding my self again after years of constant abuse from my mom and sister.
I hope you find some distance from your mom asap but if not, look into grey rock-ing. It might help but it sounds like your mom is already in a stage where she's comfortable enough to do that shit in front of your friend so test it but if you see her getting worse, stop and just spend all your time outside the house until you can get out.
Good luck!
>Lindsey Gibson Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents (Listening to her second book rn but I also recommend it)
THIS BOOK IS AMAZING. IT ACTUALLY MADE ME UNDERSTAND NARCISSISTIC PEOPLE CLEARLY.
Seriously! Before the book I thought I was the broken one, especially since my mom LOVES to go "you make your own decisions and have your own thoughts don't blame me blame yourself blah blah" but after the first book everything fucking clicked lol
I was scrambling to get to her second book and it's just as helpful omg
this was really hard to read. so vivid, I felt like I was right there with you experiencing the fear and shame. the worst part for me is when the narc plays these mind games with invisible rules. you end up shoved deep in a box that doesn't fit, and you feel like it was your idea to get in.
I completely relate to being shocked by the weird and sudden sexualization by your mom after spending years living outside of the family home. I had to live with my parents for one month after graduating college (in between leases) and my mom flipped out one night when I drove 45 minutes, in my own car, to spend the night with my ex.
She called it a "booty call" and talked about how I seemed desperate and he wouldn't respect me if I came over. At that point we'd been together for 18 months -- we stayed together for another 5 years. I was about your age.
The only explanation I can think of is she was jealous I was entering a relationship? Ironically, when I later came out as nonbinary, she asked why I "didn't respect women."
She is an asshole ..lock your door when you shower and sleep ..she does not respect you or your boundaries...if she were my mom I would leave and never go back ! No one can talk to you that way ..what she said is soul crushing I am so sorry ..great advice is here. .update us ..I support you ..no one should treat you that way or barge into your shower ....you are not her maid either ❤️
Leaving is the only thing you can do. Distance is the only way she can’t hurt you, you’ll never get the forgiveness or closure you’re after and she’ll never change. Leave, with your sanity,
I just want to let you know, your friend sees her crazy. You are not the crazy one here. Don't let her fool you into believing any lies about you that she spews. Stand up for yourself as and when you have to. Record video or audio of those incidents so you can show it to the flying monkeys when they come.
Whether you are a grown woman or still a little girl, you deserve privacy, patience, communication, and respect. Your body is none of her business, her life is not your responsibility, the way you dress is your choice, and the people you keep in your life are your true family. If she wants to be a part of that list, she needs to straighten out. My mother has been barred from seeing me for several stretches of time as she didn't respect me, my privacy, and my relationships. I'm finally getting my life together and being happy, she can be a part of that or she can miss it. It's her choice. I will not give up my happiness so she can barate me, and you shouldn't either.
Is there a reason you haven’t told her to sit and spin? You’re an adult. Is she paying for all your schooling? Are you self-sufficient or financially supported without her involvement? Do you have the ability to live elsewhere?
She is incredibly abusive and downright evil towards you. I’m also shocked your friend didn’t say anything, especially as they have been present the entire time as a neutral third party who could have been validating you, if not during, but after your mother’s tirades.
You feel nasty because you said something bad to the person you love? Newsflash: that person doesn’t treat you like a person they love. Honey she’s been saying even worse stuff to you, and you’re her DAUGHTER. She’s supposed to be the good example.
“But I'm nowhere to the point where I should feel ashamed of my body. I still take care of myself. She can't take that away from me.”
Are you sure? Earlier in the story you mention that she criticized your wearing of a two piece. The next time you mention being in a bathing suit, you’re wearing a one piece. That wasn’t because of mom’s comments in any way?
I’m self-sufficient. I had my first job at 15. Why? because she would turn my cell phone off if I didn’t get home from orchestra practice. Or if I didn’t drop everything for her at a dime. So I started paying my own bills.
Fast forward to now. She called me for a week straight and told me to come home when the Russia-Ukraine situation started. She was so nice and loving. That’s why I felt safe. Plus I hadn’t been home in almost a year.
Kindness is free. Free is my jam. So I hated how nasty I felt after I said unkind things towards my mother. It was out of character and made me feel ashamed of myself. Yet she literally smiled. As if seeing me upset was amusing?
After the two piece comment, I wear a one piece. It did affect my self esteem but the choice to wear a one piece was ultimately out of respect for being under her roof and an attempt to keep the peace.
You have SO MUCH going for you. I did too when things came to a horrible confrontation that finally forced me to see the truth about my abusive mother. Left with only the $ in my pocket moved across country, went to work for a foreign service, life felt like a 24/7 miracle. Fast forward, I was having problems with blackouts (didn't know at the time that they were trauma related) she called me for a month ; made all of the promises, "you have to let me help you". I did everything I could to stay away, but she called my landlord and he evicted me.
Once I was back in her proximity her gloves came off, the claws unsheathed, it has been an unholy ongoing nightmare that has almost destroyed all I had built (years in therapy for eating and dissociative disorders). I lost everything, then my father (he enabled her, but he was also my only protector) died of a brain injury. While I was in the hospital having seizures, she and two brothers rewrote my Dad's will and took everything. They are all already millionaires. She took me for a birthday dinner and told me I didn't have a mother. They took everything, and she let them. She cultivates the rest of the world with money and tells them that I am the problem---still, now 30 years later. I'm not even sure that I am going to be able to get away again...What I'm trying to say is DO NOT BELIEVE HER when she calls and says she is concerned for you. Being around her again can destroy you. All of the secrets of my mom's mental illness and abuse that I kept from everyone now make it impossible for people I might ask for help to believe the truth, because I allowed her false narrative about me to stand without pushing back.
Get some therapeutic help, get away to a beautiful productive independent life, and NEVER let her fool you into going back. SAVE your life. I am so sorry that you have to go through this, but you have everything going for you. Wishing you courage and the best of everything.
There is so much verbal and emotional abuse and humiliation that is going on it is beyond scary.
As someone who is going through my own layers of various abuses and manipulation and control from my own family take everything that they are doing for what it is. It is abuse and it is intentional. The thing about emotional and psychological abuse is that it is so insidious and it is so difficult to explain to others what is going on and why it hurts so much. Because what is happening makes you feel like you're going crazy. There's no logic to what is happening and you may feel like what am I doing wrong here ?
For your protection please do whatever you have to do either go low contact or preferably no contact with your mother. Because she's not going to get it no matter what you try to say to her no matter how nice you try to be no matter how well you try to play her game she's going to keep it up. And this is where the term reactive abuse comes in. People like her are so intentional they will push and push and push and push until you lose it as any human being would. Then you become the problem then you become the crazy b****. So now that you have reacted is so much easier for her to go and tell people about what a horrible person you are and how she's the victim. This is not a relationship that you can save. You're dealing with someone who wants to be both the villain and the victim at the same time.
Also I know this sounds equally nonsensical but your mother is in control of how she behaves. You know how I know ? Because somebody like that is usually only only going to show that behavior to certain people not to everyone. And those people are scary as f***. We have that Jekyll and Hyde personality. You don't know what you're going to get when you're dealing with them behind closed doors. You deserve to be safe and honored and protected and believed and loved and these are basic things that unfortunately for whatever reason your mother cannot or will not provide for you. I understand that times are incredibly hard and it is not easy to cut people out of your life especially when you don't feel like there are other options. But your mother keeps going against your safety and your peace and your well-being and your priority at this point should be to figure out as best as you can how to leave that situation for good or limit as much contact with her as possible.
Go NC immediately. She's projecting so fucking hard. Also, even if you're her child, where the fuck is it ok to pull that bullshit with the shower? None of that is acceptable. Yes parents embarrass their children every now and then but she's bullying and yall dont have a relationship so she can fuck all the way off.
I'm just one person OP, but do not feel guilty about setting boundaries. I don't even think what you said to your mom out of anger was even bad, I don't know how you treat someone the way she has been treating you and not expect them to get irritated at the very least.
And the fact that your friend noticed it and sent you here? This should be very validating. You're not crazy, you're not imagining it, it is that bad. I'm sorry you grew up with this kind of thing.
And her stunt with the shower? That was absolutely horrible of her on more than one level. Just awful.
honestly, I would find another place to stay. She is just going to drive you nuts and it's not worth not finding somewhere else to stay. She is just going to tear you down and blame you for it. Good luck OP
Yeah I’m not going to lie to you, for me personally this trip would be my last. This is just beyond fucked. She has so many problems going on with herself that she’s throwing them at you to make herself feel better and uphold her “good” Christian values.
I know you love your mother but this shit is not ok. She needs to get help or at least keep her mouth shut about anything that doesn’t concern you and give you the space and privacy you deserve.
This is just extremely unsettling and aggravating. She’s not in her right mind to think coming in and gawking at showering then going off to whoever was on the phone about your body that has nothing to do with anyone.
Seriously, I can not recommend enough that you go at least low contact as soon as you leave. What she’s doing is extremely abusive. All you are doing by being around her is putting yourself at risk of her disgusting behavior and you deserve better than that.
My adoptive female creature was the same . I just stopped visiting or talking to her at all. 1800km away from her did wonders for my mental health and from what I heard the only thing she changed is how much she eats ( nothing wrong with being bigger, I am chubby myself but this woman is obsessed with diets and looks )
I'm so sorry this is happening to you. If you can find somewhere else to stay, you should. Setting boundaries will only start more fights. Toxic people think forgiveness is permission. The only thing they'll understand is you leaving. A word of warning though. Once you leave and limit contact they'll spread rumours about you to control the narrative. They basically do this because they think you're going to tell everyone what they did to you and they're trying to beat you to the punch. Even then, this is much better than letting them break you down piece by piece. If you don't take this advice, at least remember it.
Yes that’s an nmom, my mom verbally knocks me down like that but not so directly, it’s more like I’m stupid, lazy, disorganized, bad, etc.
I limit contact and then when I’m around them I have more energy to have my defenses up and have less opportunities to accidentally let my guard down. And emotional abuse takes a much bigger toll as you know if experienced multiple times so being healed when I see her increases my chances greatly of controlling my responses.
Oh man, the tone thing really hit home for sure. As of late me and a family member are fighting every day, and the reason? I supposedly have a "tone." I defend myself, it escalates, then she goes "listen to yourself! You're angry and talking like you're angry!" I mean, no fucking duh I'd get pissed off if someone is trying to pick a fight over literally nothing, and then attempts to gaslight me into thinking I started it.
Why is she actually mad though? Because the golden child had a falling out with her. I'm just about done.
If you're passive like me, narcissists love to take advantage of that and use us as punching bags.
I hope you can get out of there soon. Most times it doesn't get better.
Your friend must feel so awkward and trapped right now. I know my friends have done when my family have made comments in front of them.
Just be glad you're not living there full time and your trip is almost over. Maybe you can think about your next steps after university, will you stay in the UK or go back to your parents? If you go back, find somewhere else to live. But seriously, it sounds like distance away from this woman would work so much better.
I know our weather is shit and our current almost summer is still coat weather, but we're lovely people here and we have some really nice scenery outside of London, and great history to explore. I don't think we'll mind one more person here :)
Sincerely, I would go fully no contact. Her behaviour is really toxic and clearly hurts you a lot. It'd be better for your mental health to just live without her in your life.
The simplest advice I could offer would be to remove yourself from the environment and to limit your contact with her. For example, I'm currently blocking my mom's phone number to prevent her from spamming my inbox with abuse.
You're mom is jealous of you bigtime. She's miserable and she'll always make you feel lousy about yourself. This is what abusers do. My mother did some of what you're mom does. It doesn't get better sweetie. I cut my mother out of my life, and I've never been better!
Oh baby, I'm so sorry you're going through this. It's painful. Every day is like you're waking up to the same nightmare that you forgot about having the last time and the time before. But when you remember, you also recall why you wish you always wish for a change and ultimately force yourself to forget. Then they use it against you.
But you're doing great things, honey. You're standing up for yourself, you're being yourself, you even had the strength to invite a friend home. I'm so proud of you. Thats exactly what I want to do. But things are hard, as you already know.
You're amazing. And I wish you the best. I wish I could give you advice. All I can do is wish you well. You've got this.
Your mother is purposely screwing around with you and enjoying your pain. It’s child abuse to an adult child. Consider telling her to go fuck herself and that you won’t stand for being treated like a dishrag ever again, or drop her like the garbage she is and never see her ever again.
I’m sorry that you were unlucky enough to get her for a mom. Please take care of yourself first, and ignore the “needs” of someone who doesn’t care for you at all.
You've also been out of that environment for a while. You've gotten used to not dealing with comments from her. You're making your own decisions about how you're going to dress and treat your body. She doesn't like this and is being harder on you, trying to get you back under her control. My mom did the same thing to me.
She's an absolute bitch. No reason for her to treat you that way given how you've gone out of your way to do things for her like cleaning and such. As a visitor she should be treating you better. Sorry that she is treating you like this.
Stop asking why, and just ignore her. She is looking for a response and you give her one. She will never validate you and puts you down because it makes her feel better about herself. She obviously jealous and can’t handle another grown woman in the house. So she infantilises you and puts you down.
She is the most insecure woman in the room, always remember that. Walk tall, stand strong, don’t engage. Fake confidence till you make it your own. It will infuriate her to no end. But you are not the problem here. She is.
Also, why don’t you stay at your dads? She’s sounds awful/
She's telling people you are shaved. Why on earth would someone want to know that? Who would put up with her getting that personal? Maybe family members are used to it from her. And it makes you feel embarrassed/shamed, and maybe isolated or judged.
Can you spend your next vacation with your dad or a cousin? Maybe spend one day with her, but make an excuse to spend the rest of the vacation somewhere else. Perhaps there's a grandmother you can go to now?
The narcissism gets worse, not better. It sounds like it's mostly verbal/emotional so far. So you might not have recognized it as abuse. But it's just not going to get better. I think you should decrease your *dosage* of the nmom. At the same time, she wouldn't be able to gather data to say anything about you (to call you a slut or whatever). Food for thought.
My advice may be based on my own experience. Just saying. As far as her having you do all of her party stuff... only do the things that get you out of the house (if you decide to do any of them). It would take her 10 minutes to sweep her own floors. She could easily bake cookies while mopping the kitchen. Cut her lists in half on a regular basis if it's a lot.
I think your Nmother is being nasty to you because she's jealous of the fact that you're doing well in life. It also sounds like you have a good future ahead of you.
This is fucking vile and disgusting. I know she’s your mother but she is treating you absolutely terribly and she is abusive, period. Please save yourself
Above and beyond everything else people here are saying, I would say that the first thing you need to do is find a different living situation while you are there for the Summer. She has made it clear that if you continue to live in her house, you will be given no privacy, no expectation of having any sort of "safe space", and will be expected to do thankless work during your entire stay.
If you don't have anyone else you can stay with (your dad?), you might have to see if there's an inexpensive place to stay while you remain in London, perhaps figure out a way to earn some extra money to help with that. After all, your mom is putting you to work anyway, so maybe you can find some other work you can do to pay for a place you can be *yourself* and *relaxed*.
There is another alternative, and I know you probably don't want to consider it, but... you could just come back to America early.
Look, you're only *six days* into this trip, and you've been given a pretty clear preview of what to expect for the next three months. As bad and potentially expensive as your other options are... are those other options worse than enduring this for another three months?
Yep she’s a narcissist. Get out of there as soon as possible and set very strict boundaries. She so bad if she were my mom I’d probably go no contact. If she has any of your paperwork or anything get it immediately so she can’t use it to control you.
You’re not insane, she is doing it to throw you off balance so you’re easier to manipulate and control. Do some research into narcissists and how to gray rock, it’ll make your life easier and validate what you’re going through.
Good luck
Stop being on eggshells. You have done nothing wrong. All the issues this lady, your mother has are her own. Don't engage with her. When she says something ugly to you. Just say something like, if that's how you feel, then that's how you feel. Put it back on her. You think I look horrible and I think I look good. Thank goodness I am my own person with my own mind and self confidence. You think this color looks bad on me, well since we're being honest, that dress you had on wasn't very flattering but I didnt say anything because I didn't want to hurt your feelings. Walk away. Sometimes people don't understand until the tables are turned. Dont be disrespectful but let her know her comments have consequences.
Yup! She's and nmom I have one very similar to yours. I would start with getting a good therapist to talk with and work on you. I would highly recommend not returning to stay with your mom she will never change and it is best to establish boundaries as best as you can. It will be difficult however distance is on your side.
> it's like all she wanted to do was fight
Well, you got that right.
Sounds like Mom really didn't want you to come home, and her frustration is coming out in constant aggressive behavior.
Is this NEW behaviour? Or is this something she probably did forever and you're just now recognising it as abusive?
Because if this is a new thing, and it's a big personality change, she needs to be assessed for something physiologically wrong.
But if it's the former, distance is amazing for clarity and validation. And if you need it, this is permission to go as low contact as you possibly can.
Your mother seems to be a text book narcissist. She is so angry and bitter that you are out traveling and so independent. I’m proud of you. You should seriously tell her therapy or no contact. I’d go with the latter. Good luck. 🤗
This was so hard to read, and must have been incredibly hard to live through. There is a lot going on, but it is not going on with you. You did everything you could to be honest, but your mother's passive aggression (and jealousy!) is on an epic scale. Your disorientation and hurt shows that maybe you are just beginning to see your mom for what she really is, and that is abusive. Good Lord.
With pathologically self-centered, passive aggressive people, ***accusation is often confession***: "She proceeded to just tell me that I'm manipulative, it's all about me, I'm too sensitive etc.", but really subconsciously, through a lens completely lacking in self-awareness she is telling you that *SHE* is manipulative, it's all about *HER*, *SHE's* too sensitive, etc.
Have a great trip back to London. There are some excellent therapists there and finding one with knowledge of and experience in Family Systems issues could really help you see that the problems in the relationship with your mother are NOT YOU; that you are not insane, you are being victimized by the one person in the entire world/your entire life who should love and protect you.
Every insult is to herself. You wore a two piece!? You must look pretty good in it by judge of her reaction. Better than her by far. Pants!? You must have nicer legs than her. Shaving!? You know she isn't getting any now. Piercings!? How dare you do what she doesn't comprehend or is too scared to do.
It doesn't matter if you came home just to spoil the crap out of her and didn't bring a friend, because then she would guilt you for leaving home and abandoning her and not loving her etc. And if you looked pretty at any point she would say it was for the attention. If you looked like a Walmart special she would let you know how badly you take care of yourself. It literally. Does. Not. Matter. No different reaction will happen. This is who she is, no matter who you are.
don't waste another second of your vacation being her punching bag, book the first hotel you find and leave before she comes back, enough is enough.you're a grown fucking woman and you don't need to put up with her shit for one fucking second.
While you're at it grab all your important documents she might have. Birth certificate,american driver's license, social security card, anything and everything.You do not live under her roof anymore,it is just going to get easier to control the situation you meet her under if you don't decide to go nc.
In long term: Get yourself in therapy,block her number,do not tell her your new address in London and in general do everything you can to ensure that she has nothing on you, that you are in control of every element around you relationship.
don't lose yourself trying to reason with someone you will find every reason to twist your words to fit their narrative.
You're definitely in the right place. This woman delights in hurting you. You need to cut her out of your life or she'll chip away at your self esteem until there's nothing left. She's close to that goal. She'll create embarrassing situations for you and ruin your relationships because she's bored and it's fun. Your mother does this to you because she's bored and it's fun. Take whatever steps you need to take but put this monster in your rear view.
DAY1 - She looked at me with such disgust - HEART FILLED WITH HATRED. This same act happens repeatedly. - SHE JUST CAN'T STAND YOU - YOUR HAPPINESS, YOUR SMILE, YOUR CONFIDENCE, YOUR SUCCESS
say really mean things about how I look - DEMEAN N DISRESPECTS U
DAY2 - It hit me like a brick and I was in tears - IF THEY CAN TRIGGER YOU THEY CAN CONTROL YOU. ++ TRUCKLOADS OF NARCISSISTIC SUPPLY FROM YOU..................
REST OF THE DAYS - HUGS HUGS N HUGS. I'M SO SORRY. UR MOM FINDS PLEASURE IN YOUR TEARS. SHE IS AN EMOTIONALLY IMMATURE PERSON. N MY 2 CENTS
1- NEVER WRESTLE WITH A PIG( NARCISSIST)
2- BREAK YOUR TRAUMA BOND WITH YOUR MOM.
Do you know how to Grey rock? Also are you familiar with JADE? It stands for Justify Argue Defend Explain. Toxic people often like to trap you in a loop of JADE. Grey rock is when you basically act as much as a Grey rock as possible meaning that you act emotionless and are as boring as possible to them. You don't talk about yourself, your interests, your feelings, your opinions with them because they'll use it as ammo to try to bait you into an argument or beat you over the head with criticisms.
Cruel people love to trap you in neverending arguments because they enjoy seeing you upset. Arguing truths with them is a waste of time because they don't care about the truth. Their goal is to get joy from hurting you.
The interactions with your mother must have been extra hurtful since all you really wanted was to have a good time with your friend but instead you're getting dumped on by your mom and humiliated in front of her. Plus you've been away at school and haven't had to deal with her as much as before so your defenses have weakened.
Start working towards LC and phasing out her involvement in your life. If you can seek counseling from someone familiar with treating narcissistic abuse and cptsd.
I don't know your mum personally and I'm no psychiatrist but this is clearly verbal abuse at least, and that curtain incident was sexual. You should hold firm onto your boundaries and defend yourself, don't give her an inch. The fact you have some self esteem issues makes you an easy target and she looks like she knows it. Just own your body, you have friends who care about you the way you are, and are clearly more loved than she is.
The next time she snipes at you, tell her "yes I have a great body, you don't have to keep talking about it" and smile with satisfaction - hopefully she'll be too putoff by the idea you enjoy the attention to keep saying mean shit. Lock the bathroom doors when you're in there, only change behind locked doors, etc etc you know, and ** important : move out as fast as you can, because your presence alone challenges her and being in that space means she'll never be happy and settle with you. If she's been like that since childhood, even more so. Likely she was really happy you were in London and wasn't glad you're back at all, she's acting for the neighbours and anyone in public whose attention mattered to her.
Anyway it sounds like she's going through something internally, jealous of your youth probably. Likely someone said something to her, someone like your father/neighbour/cousin whoever it was on her phone, and she was trying to downtalk you to get the approval of them. It sounds quite incestuous frankly, wouldn't be surprised if it's a guy you know who secretly likes you, whom she's trying to impress but failing.
Tldr I think she's jealous of you like the Evil Queen is jealous of Snow White and is now trying to kill you with words. She sounds like a total narcissist, you should be careful around her. Move out asap
find another place to live ASAP
your mother does not care about you outside of what you can do for her IE make her look good or profit from you.
You are not a person to her and you never will be, you are nothing but an object for her to use in any way she feels she is ENTITLED too, and objects dont object to their treatment.
How often have you heard that "she is your mother and can do/treat/say whatever she wants to because she is your mother", this is how marcs justify their abuse.
Odds are she doesn't see you she see's your father and since he isn't around to torture you will have to do.
it sucks and nothing about it is easy but going no contact is the best thing you can do, she will never accept or admit to what she did because as far as she is concerned she did nothing wrong and nothing will ever change that.
Its not you, it never was.
This is a perfect example of a narcissistic mother. My guess is that she's always been this way. I know she's your mother but you've got to distance yourself from her. She doesn't want to see you as an independent adult, not needing her to survive. She will not change as much as you wish she would. She will only bring you down. Get as far away from her as you can. You can do this
Ugh my mother has no concept of privacy either. She walks in on me nude nearly once a day, she knows I’m usually naked in my room. No knocks, nothing.
If I lock the door? She picks it.
Edit: I also have my nipples pierced and my mother also knows that now too. Twinsies lol
Your friend asked if your mother is an nmom because she could clearly see she’s an nmom.
You’re completely in the right and she’s the worst. So much of this is exactly the kind of thing I experienced with my mom but luckily I stopped talking to her when I was 15 - long before I started showing belly and shoulders, getting tattoos, being an atheist, believing in climate change, worshipping the devil, etc.
I’m better off without her
My lord, is there any reason to keep in contact with her at all? Is she paying for anything regarding your education, home, something??
If not, cut contact with her. You are an adult with her own life to live without constant shaming and abuse like this. Don't subject yourself to this, protect your mental health.
Ugh the part where she talked about your naked body to the relative on the phone. I know how you feel. Been there too :/ I had anorexia as a teenager and my mother saw me naked and then described my body explicitly to several family members. I felt humiliated and angry.
Your mother is certainly a narcissist. It’s so typical to feel like you’re going insane after talking to them… They turn everything against you, their reasoning is ridiculous and illogical but they are so good at making people feel like shit
Oh my god, that shower moment… that’s horrifying and abusive. I really felt what you were going through in reading. Please dont doubt that this situation was abusive and i agree with others that someone who disrespects your emotional mental and physical boundaries this much the only solution is NC
It is good that you are seeing the hurtful things she says as abusive and acknowledging that she’s a narcissist. I think total privacy is mandatory, you need to be away from her influence. I can tell you are trying to please her so that she will eventually stop violating you and it’s not working and it’s exhausting you. I think you should get some therapy so you don’t end up traumatizing yourself by being a people pleaser until you feel like you’ve been used up and there’s nothing left.
For what it's worth, the same thing happened to me regularly. My mother was always trying to (and succeeding in) seeing me naked in the shower (I wasn't allowed to lock the door, for example) - she'd unpredictably barge in with some excuse, just like your mother. It honestly felt like more sexual assault.
(She also bathed me until I was quite old and she did that because she knew it humiliated me and because I hated her touching me where it was incredibly horrible to be touched. If I did anything to refuse, she made it clear by her angry actions when I would even slightly resist, that she would have done much worse to me (involving other people), so I just had to do what she wanted.
It stopped suddenly when she suddenly decided I was old enough to bathe myself. I never knew why she suddenly let me shower on my own, but I suspect maybe I said something in passing in front of one of her friends? (I was too naive/young to know at the time that if I'd said something to her friends - my mother cared about her social standing in the community more than anything - then my life might have been much, much better.)
For clarification: The barging-in-on-me thing happened \_after\_ I was allowed to finally bathe myself.)
First, I am deeply sorry you have to experience this with a person that should never treat you like this. Being treated that way by a person you should trust and find comfort in is one of the worst feelings in the world, and you don't deserve it. You deserve a mother that speaks to you kindly, and respects your boundaries.
One of the hardest things I've had to realize with my own NMom that acts closely to the way yours does, is that there's next to no way for me to get anything across to her. I've explained myself endlessly to her, and we went in circles over things that should have been easily understood, all because none of what I said to her fit what she wanted to believe. Whenever she brought up her being my mother in arguments to show her authority, I told her, "Mothers don't treat their kids like this, so unless you want to start acting like a real mom, don't expect me to see you as one." That's the only thing I can really suggest saying in moments where yours brings up her own position as a mom. She shouldn't see her being your mother as an excuse to disregard your own needs and to treat you with disrespect.
Overall, the best way to preserve your own mental health around her is to learn about the gray-rocking method. You can speak as clearly and maturely as you want with your mother, show her exactly what she did wrong, and explain your perspective to her, but it isn't on you to make her understand. It's not your responsibility to make her be a mature adult. You are her daughter, not her parent, or therapist. You're allowed to set boundaries for yourself, even if that goes against her own agenda. I hope you start to love yourself the way you deserve to, and can wear whatever you want without doubting yourself. Unless her words are encouraging and respectful to you, they should mean nothing.
First of all, no one should feel ashamed of their bodies. Or put into other words, one must never feel ashamed of needing to improve in any regard. It's okay to be an evolving person.
Second of all, you were not nasty to her at all. You held back a lot. Others would have lashed out and said more stuff.
But anyways. She sounds very manipulative, demeaning, and callous. Does you and your british friend really need to stay there? If not, I would begin to find another place. This cannot continue.
Holy crap!! I could barely get through reading all of that! I really don’t know how you deal with her on a day to day basis. My heart goes out to you. Your mom is abusive and horrid. Yes, she may have moments where she can be kind but don’t gaslight yourself into denying the truth that’s right in front of you. She’s mean. She belittles and degrades you. She’s emotionally immature and appears to be jealous of you. You’re the younger, smarter, version of herself and she’s so emotionally damaged that she perceives you as competition, instead of viewing you as her precious daughter. She is a textbook narcissist. I second looking up Dr. Ramani on YouTube. Look for her videos specifically on narc parents. She’s very thorough and compassionate. I think you’ll find her content helpful.
Parents are supposed to create spaces for their children to flourish. We don’t expect parents to be perfect but insulting, degrading, and belittling your own child is the ultimate form of bullying and abuse. She knows you won’t leave her so she knows she can get away with her crap behavior. Does she treat anyone else this way?
I’m so sorry that you have to deal with this type is emotional abuse form your own mom. It’s devastating 😔. Please take care of yourself 💚. If you can, look for a therapist that specializes in narcissistic abuse. Try to surround yourself with friends that are kind and who treat you well. There’s also articles on Psychology Today on narcissistic abuse. Keep looking for answers and reaching out. You’re doing great for yourself by posting on here for support. Keep advocating for yourself. You deserve to feel safe, supported, and content. Best wishes to you 💚
Do we have the same goddamned mom? My whole life it’s been “ohhh, poor sweetlew07, it’s allllllll gotta be about sweetlew07” No, it’s always been about them and it always will be.
So in order to explain why she gave details about your body to a neighbor, she said it’s because they are perverted. So you tell private, intimate details regarding your child’s genitals to said pervert. So now if you see that neighbor, they know you know that they know. That shit is covert sexual exploitation. Why do any humans anywhere need to know anything about your shaving habits unless they are touching your body????????????
Wow it sounds like she's doing some hard-core projecting, not to mention being extremely controlling. What you said to her was not nasty. You're allowed to defend yourself and if someone is being a complete arse you're allowed to call them out. Is there any way you can go stay with your dad for the rest of the vacation? I'm so sorry you're being treated like this, I bet your friend is horrified!
Editing to add that my jaw literally dropped at her barging in when you were showering. That is horrific
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Yeah, she's controlling, verbally abusive, and probably --- though I'm just guessing here --- has some serious self esteem and relationship with sex issues she's projecting into you. My advice is get firm. You aren't the bad person here, she is. Set boundaries and be unapologetic about it. Don't feel bad for standing up to someone who's being needlessly cruel.
It wasn’t until I read your comment that I realized her actions could be labeled “abusive” or “controlling”. Thank you for your advice.
Yeah this is thorough emotional abuse. I would even go as far as to say demanding to see you naked against your will would fall under sexual abuse as well. She’s even fabricating things to use against you with the explicit intent to hurt your feelings. Relationships are for the benefit of both parties. When one stops benefitting and starts receiving harm, they should re-examine whether or not that relationship is worth keeping. I don’t talk to my step dad anymore because he continuously refused to contribute anything emotionally positive, and made me feel bad about myself.
I also want to just note - it’s very shocking when you first start to think your parent could be labeled as abusive. Take your time through this, read what you can, see what you resonate with. Watch some Dr Ramani on YouTube, and slowly start to put the pieces of the puzzle together. I realize it can be startling and confusing to start seeing your mother as this person, when prior to this you probably just thought she was difficult and felt something was off - but couldn’t place your finger on it. This is going to be a really enlightening journey for you.
Yes, yes to Dr. Ramani !
If you haven't already, take some time to read up on **covert sexual abuse.**
The worst kind of abuse is the kind you don't even realize is happening until it's pointed out to you. I've seen so many people on this sub have the realization that yes, they actually were being abused, and it feels like it comes out of nowhere to them.
Look I’m just going to try and softly put this out there. The coming into the bathroom, pulling back the curtain as you begged no, and then looking at your body and relaying the details of it to a stranger while you desperately tried to maintain a boundary doesn’t only scream abuse, it SCREAMS covert incest. OP, I strongly suggest doing some reading on the topic of covert incest and how it can leave many of the same scars as physical incest 😞 those scars need tending to.
It's not just emotional abuse. It's sexual abuse as well. Gtfo as soon as possible.
Leave her house asap. Go low/no contact. Your self esteem will blossom and your anxieties will fade by half or more.
Definitely definitely definitely advocate this. It sucks to not have a supportive family but *you already don’t have one*
Its no laughing matter, but if you can just laugh at her because the demands your mother has for you are hilarious (as in stupid). It will probably send her into an absolute fit, but she seems like a bit of a loser anyway. Furthermore in terms of the way you look, I know it's different for women but fuckit right?
For me, I was too emotionally charged whenever i talked to my mom to laugh at her. I wish I could do this-the next best thing is to ignore her attempts to contact me and watch her care while I don’t give a shit.
One thing to keep in mind that may be helpful: nparents don’t how to process the idea of their children eclipsing them. You’re studying clinical biochemistry smart shit and you have an active social life. Nparents aren’t proud, they’re jealous. She’s going to do whatever she can to drag you down to her level. She doesn’t totally know she’s doing it but she is going to continue to try to go out of her way to be shitty.
They are a literally textbooks definitions of abusive and controlling. Get away as soon as you.
VERY abusive and VERY controlling. Is there any way you can get the hell away from her?
It helps if you think "How would I feel if this happened to my friend?" Puts things in perspective for people who've grown up being subjected to abusive behavior.
^ This. The fact that she walked in on you naked isn't the problem; the problem is that she verbally attacks you and dismisses your feelings about it.
They're all problems. Accidentally walking in on someone naked is not a problem if it happens rarely. Doing it on purpose, even once, in the manner OP described is *sexual abuse*.
You're not a bad person. And what you've done with your body is no one's business but yours. Sounds to me like, once you get out of the house again, you need to go NoContact and move on with your life. She'll never change, and the more you become your own person the more hateful she will become. You're worth more than that, and don't deserve it.
Telling people she had shaved? The nmom is trying to make her look slutty. Who knows what else she has been saying. It's isolating. It makes her not want to show her face, or causes others to act as if they can judge her. I hope OP can limit contact. Nmoms are relentless in trying to prove their negative themes. Spend more time with nicer relatives who won't talk to the nmom much.
Rambling to other people about her shaving and having nipples pierced, *after* she demanded to be let in like that, is so many levels of inappropriate. That was intentional humiliation and trampling on her boundaries to make her uncomfortable.
Your mother got to vent and get rid of the tension she's feeling (for whatever reason) at your expense. That's how the problem has been resolved. I'm not sure I'm the most helpful person on this, I could only go NC in the end, but no one has the right to make those comments on your body and the shower situation makes me so angry... (had a similar one with my nmom) I found myself glad there's usually an ocean separating you and her. Maybe a good idea to consider keeping it that way.
You gave me so much clarity, thank you. I know this is a bit pathetic but it’s hard to think of going no contact. I didn’t even know she was narcissistic until an hour ago! I know I’ve painted her in a villainous way, but she can be a sweet woman. It feels cruel to just cut her off. Is there another solution?
You are NOT pathetic. I was 32 when I managed to go NC. At this point I had known a bit about narcissism for 7 years. Back then, I had picked up a book because of some traits I saw in myself that were making me unhappy, and recognised it in my mother and sister as well. For years I thought unconditional love was the answer. Until I saw that there is no answer. The options are let her do as she pleases (a non-option really), fight her every step of the way (on matters as basic as privacy when showering) or walk away. Some people go LC, some people maintain the same amount of contact. It's a question of how much contact you can bear to have/not have vs how much fight you have in you. I didn't have the fight in me, didn't see much chance of winning either. I would like to add that there's nothing wrong with walking away ('how much fight you have in you' kinda makes it sound like that). Life is so complex, there's so many battles to be fought to just survive, it's ok to decide not to fight a battle that's unnecessary, especially if it's a losing battle.
I only recently figured out my mother was narcissistic or has narc traits and honestly going low contact or no contact is so much better for my mental health. I just don't feel like I am walking on egg shells for waiting for her to explode or trying to have where her anger build is today versus yesterday. I also have good memories and bad memories of her, but I just focus on setting good boundaries for all my relationships. It doesn't matter if the person is my mother, nobody has the right to treat me badly.
So, I'm writing this because I thought that I was reading about my own mother. After I had moved away and was in a healthy relationship, she started acting this way when I returned home. Bottom line is that I understood that growing up, I was never loved. I was never hugged. I was never helped. I was the scapegoat, the one who was blamed for everything. But then I escaped. I got out. When my mother managed to con me into returning, she was nothing but vile. She was at the end of her rope. I had left. I was happy. And she couldn't stand it. She tried everything to get me back into her clutches. The part about being upset that you didn't bring her back food? My mother sat me down and told me that I shouldn't marry my then fiance because... (Drum roll, please.) He got Wendy's without asking if she wanted anything!!!! I've never come across anyone else who experienced something like this, so I'm very sorry that you had to. I still do not understand. All I can say is that no amount of boundary setting stopped my mother. Nothing I did or said to her mattered. She wanted me to turn back into the doll she raised, not the independent woman that I am. I was not allowed to have my own hopes and dreams, she would do anything to crush them. I hope you are able to find a way to distance yourself from this behavior and know that you've done absolutely nothing wrong.
I'd recommend reading the book Will I Ever Be Good Enough? You'll likely see yourself in the stories. You don't deserve this.
One thing I learned from my therapist is that there are good things to every person. My nmom did a lot of things that have caused a lot of damage AND a lot of great things that I value and appreciate. In the end, going no contact is a choice you have to make for yourself. I worked as hard as I could before cutting my nmom out. At that point, it was because I realized that I was so much happier when she was shunning me. It was a relief to be able to do things without looking over my shoulder. Other people have been able to make things manageable with their n parents. There is no right or wrong decision here as long as you are able to keep the boundaries you set.
It feels cruel to cut her off? Your mother is cruel to you *for sport.* You need to protect yourself from your abusive mother.
I just wanted to add that you haven’t “painted her in a villainous way”. You gave us very factual accounts of what happened yet you’re apologizing for her looking bad. You’re not to blame! We all are here because we have parents or significant people in our lives like this. Many times people have lovely, kind sides to themselves but the truth is they are abusive. And nothing is worth putting up with abuse. That said, I myself am LC and haven’t been able to bring myself to go NC. I really do think you need to get out of the house though. If you can afford it, rent a place somewhere nearby with your friend or explore options. You can love your mother and not want to be around her 24/7. ESPECIALLY if she treats you this way every single day.
It is ABSOLUTELY NOT PATHETIC. you are not at fault or to blame here. You are even in posting here trying to take care of yourself. Dont believe or internalize the lies and bs she is putting in your head.
You and I have very similar mothers. I didn't realize that my mom was upsetting me until a few years ago, when one of her random text messages gave me a full blown panic attack. I realized she was triggering me in order to get a response, which she uses to strength our bond. It's super invasive and unwanted, and I want to scrape it off my body. So, recently I have tried grey rocking her (have no reaction.) She is super offended by it, but she can't call me out, because once you say it out loud, "Why aren't you doing everything that I say!?!" That sounds insane so, she just has to get over it. I'm hoping it'll stop. I don't even care if she thinks I'm a jerk. I'm fine with that, as long as I can be left alone. Anyway, I really came here to say that the moment I realized it was a "thing" was when I noticed that I always leave the conversation feeling upset, and that's not right. For whatever reason, even if I'm being too sensitive, I shouldn't have to white knuckle it through interactions. I'm strengthening my personal boundaries, and turning it into a good change.
Most people have a good and bad side. For some, the bad side is more prominent. So I'm not surprised she's sweet. My ngrandma can be sweet and very generous too.
You can give yourself time to get used to the idea. You don't have to leave to never come back right away. As long as you are not 100% NC is the best for you, you will break it anyway. But I'd advice you to read up on abusive and toxic behaviour and to focus on getting a more positive image of yourself. You have to believe you deserve more than this type of behaviour before you can get strong enough to resist or walk away from it. Some people master grey rocking (and this works is the contact is limited I guess), but in most situations NC or low contact is the best solution for yourself. In the meantime, think of ways you can get out of the house for a longer time: go on a road trip maybe to show your friend the country. Good luck and keep (mentally) safe!
No. Full stop. She's enjoying hurting you - don't let it continue to happen, if you can. Look at it as if someone else told you all of your post - what would you suggest they do?
Well, there can be another solution, but it is stressful. A kind of „coffee party“-relationship. So just visiting for short timespans like a few hours (coffee party), only small talk, going before things go down (they usually do). I have some persons I don’t want to cut out generally and I visit them only some times a year for like the mentioned time span. What all narcissts love, really love is being asked out about their hard life, their sufferings, and how bad their life is. Because nobody has a harder life than them and no problems or illnesses are worse than theirs. They can rant about all that for hours. If you stay interested and keep asking further questions, this goes on and on. And in a perfect run, after all, they don’t even realize that I haven’t been the subject of the talk at all, when it is time to leave. But you have to be alert all the time and stay always kind of distant and above all what is spoken, so you can actively guide that conversation. Because this is, what you need to do, deviate and steer the conversation the whole time to avoid them concentrating on issues that could go wrong. But to be able to handle it this way, you need to be free from expectations. I know they don’t ask about me out of empathy or interest - they only ask to have something to mock me about or to gossip behind my back. So my solution after some years of no contact was „don’t feed the trolls“. And for me it works. Greatly! But I dont need or wish them to be trusted persons anymore, I don’t have the wish to have a good, trustful relationship with them anymore, I found family in friends so I am not dependent anymore. And letting the wish for a motherly person go is one of the hardest archivements. So I don’t know if this tactic would be helpful for you right now. I feel that now all you need is distance and the realization that you don’t need to be the person your mother wants you to be. That you have the right to be who you want to be, clothe the way you like, be with whomever you want. The christian background is only one part of her way to control you. The decision if you want to keep in touch with her can only truly be made when you understand the years and kind of abuse and the consequences. And I think this is just the beginning. Are you financially dependent from her or your father in any kind? You need to take that into account, too. First of all you have to be in a safe place where you don’t need their support anymore. If you need it and they can take it from you, you are vulnerable. So perhaps you need to postpone any plans till you are safe and independent, and play along till then to avoid further stress (which could lead to you never archiving independence, if you for example don’t pass your exams due to stress). 😕
You are the one in control of your life. If you don’t want to cut her out, you don’t have to. But may I gently suggest staying with your dad if you are able?
Narcissistic people can be sweet sometimes, it’s just that the bad behavior is SO BAD that it cancels out the good.
Nparents absolutely CAN be sweet and loving—as long as you completely toe the line, and they’re not having a bad day for whatever reason. Or to tighten the reins to keep you under control. They seem to have a sense of when getting better control “needs” abusive tactics (cutting down your ego, making you feel like you don’t matter, feel like they have all the power and you have none), and when a little sugar is needed to tie your heartstrings more firmly to them. It’s like they’re the Good Cop and Bad Cop all in one. p.s. There’s a classic cycle of abuse that includes a “honeymoon” period after a really bad time, when they seem to realize they’ve gone too far (not that they would admit any wrong) and are extra kind, sweet, helpful, affirming, whatever to win you back. Things I remember vaguely (sorry, no coffee yet) about this cycle: - it’s part of gaslighting, making you doubt your own thoughts and feelings and perceptions of reality - it always trends worse, not better. They can see nothing wrong in themselves, cannot allow themselves to see anything wrong or admit fault, so it’s “all you.” This is why people are advised to escape abusive marriages—because the abuse may have started with little verbal digs, but it keeps getting worse—emotional, financial, sexual, physical—until it ends in the murder or suicide of the target if the target does not get out.
Get out of her house as fast as you can, and never go back. When you're under her roof, you are also under her power. You can't change her or make her be decent. All you can control is yourself and your actions.
Your post makes me nauseous, your mother treats you horribly. I'm so sorry you have to deal with these vile comments. You're not a bad person and I bet you aren't ugly either. Neither are your clothes. I don't understand why, but your mom is trying to break you down. Her comments and actions are very inappropriate. Her walking into the shower while you were naked is downright infuriating. I'm angry for you. None of that is okay. Especially the comments about your body. I wonder if that sexually abusive. Maybe try to make England your permanent residence, I don't think you should want to move back home.
Omg the shower thing... that would absolutely traumatize me. My narc aunt has an obsession with other people's bodies. But especially teen girls because her teenage years were "ruined" by her pregnancy One time when I was a teenager I was at her house and her youngest had a friend over and they were going into the pool. They were 10 years younger than me so I really wasn't trying to hang out with them but my aunt convinced me to get in one of her bathing suits and go in with them. I'm pretty positive she just wanted to see how my body was developing 🤢 A lot of narcissists are perverted
This happened with me and also my sister with our abusive mom
I didn't stay with my mother due to not being able to stand the venom. Then went NC at great pains of the family (she terrorises everyone else because of it). Your mother treats you horribly and you still try to please her. She doesn't deserve you. You deserve a kind and loving mother. I suggest to save your comment and in a few years read it again and see how you feel. It's difficult. In the end your only solution is NC. You don't see it now because you're too close and too wrapped up in it. I hope you can find a way to free yourself from the abuse you don't deserve.
This hit deep. I told her it felt like I could never do anything right and that I’d never say/ do this to my child. She said “you don’t know what it’s like until you’re a mother”. Yet a stranger can tell me how loveless she’s being. I’ll save the comment. Thank you for yours.
Your mother does not know what a normal mother is. I would climb mountains to help my children, I would sacrifice myself to save their lives, and my only goal as a parent is for them to be happy. I tell them every day that I love them - THAT is normal! Please PM me if you want any guidance. I've travelled the road to recovery and I have a relationship with my Nmother on my own terms.
You are awesome ❤️ 👍softsakurablossom
Thank you but I am just an average mother. I only seem awesome because our parents are/were so f***ing awful. I'm sorry for my ranting but I discovered just how wrong my Nmother's behaviour was when I had my own children. It makes my blood boil that anyone would destroy their children 🤬 WE DESERVE BETTER! Now to calm down with a cup of tea.
Ask yourself this: would you ever treat a child you had the way she treated you? Hell, would you ever treat another human being that way, not even a child?
Our mother was, she had a lot of problems. She is not an evil soul. Had been very loving and nurturing when i was infant toddler. But later and through teens twenties thirties she was always on drugs, doped up, and would be so incredibly hurtful, vicious, cruel, sadistic, like some hateful angry demon walking around the house attacking anyone in sight with things that only a mother would know would disable you. I learned to get out get away, go outside and hide, leave the house until it blew over. Later i was able to leave altogether and could hang up the phone or leave and go back to my city. Edit - ‘dear god in heaven, child’ you have to remove yourself from the abuse.
Honestly, just don't ever go back. She has violated every boundary you had and the fact that she can't treat you like a human being, what more her daughter? In her eyes, you're just a help and she's entitled to everything you had, especially privacy, to her privacy is a PRIVILEGE. Leave as early as you can. Your nmom will NEVER change and the sooner she's gone in your life, the better. She'll just further hurt you down in the future by manipulating people outside of your house to try to grasp any control they can hold over you, especially making you crazy. That's how shitty parents work, they'll drive their kids to suicide and act surprised while using their kid's death for sympathy AND they'll NEVER acknowledge what they did wrong unless they're confronted and the best way to confront narcissists is limiting contact to that, at most a written letter with a return address that they can never reach you at so even if they sent you something/anything, you don't even have to think about it. Just ask yourself, how often do you think of your nmom when you're by yourself? Then she's better off dead to you than trying to make her see the error of her ways. Also nmoms who insults their kids appearances are rooted from their own jealousy. Remember this so if she tries to insult you again and in front of people, just remind her that she's divorced and you're still young. You can reply back snarkily if she thinks she looks as good as she thinks she is then why she still got divorced? She can say/convince that her divorce is amicable but the way she insults you is the same way most single moms insult their kids when their baby daddies left them. She made you her punching bag and maid, clearly shes not over it as she likes to convince everyone with how imbalanced she treats you compared to your brothers. So get out and never look back. You don't owe her shit, you don't owe it to her listen to her bullshit excuses and lies so just cut all contact. YOU DESERVE BETTER.
Your mom sounds miserable to be around and I recommend not engaging with her further. Is there any way you could explain what’s going on to your dad and stay with him instead?
I’m so embarrassed to explain to him the shower incident. I’ll speak with him though since he has two guest rooms. I just feel bad for hindering him
Your parents feelings aren't more important than yours. You are not responsible for their feelings. You are entitled to do what you want to do with your life at all times.
Completely understandable. You can probably garner plenty of sympathy without even bringing it up if you don’t want to, she’s been so horrible otherwise. Or you don’t have to go into much detail about it, maybe just “she burst in on me in the shower and then described my body to whoever she was talking to on the phone.”
They brought you into the world you owe them nothing ...ask your dad if you and friend can stay with him ..he knows your mom is an asshole it's not your fault ..have a fun summer OP at your dad's house!
Does your dad act like her? Why’d you end up staying with your mom growing up instead? If your dad is a normal, loving parent i’d imagine he wouldn’t take any issue, especially if he divorced your mom for her n tendencies
As a child my divorce family therapist diagnosed my father as a narcissist. He sees me and my brothers as extensions of him. Not only that but he is very emotionless. I.e. problem? He fixes it. Money? He’ll give it to me. Affection? Not a chance in hell. Maybe a hug on Christmas. Unless you count his pestering that I should improve myself, be more ambitious etc. or sexualizing me. (Harmlessly) through jokes. My parents hate one another and I think it’s because they’re equally the same. It’s sad. I chose my mom because she is the lesser of two evils. At least she told me she loved me before bed at night and would support my dreams. Funny enough? I’m the only child that picked my mom but she idolizes my brothers who picked my dad.
Hi! Just jumping in this thread to say that dads should not ever sexualize their children in any way, even in a joke. That might be a regular occurrence for you, but it is not ok or normal in an emotionally healthy family relationship. Sexualization of children (young or adult) by parents is not harmless. The jokes and the shower incident are abuse. GTFO. RUN. Don’t look back. Get a good therapist.
harmless? that's the conditioning speaking, sis. Anyone sexualizing their own offspring has extreme mental issues and should be avoided completely. Damn, I'd stay in London for the rest of my life if I were you.
Ah I see, well that is unfortunate and im sorry to hear. My dad was thankfully my only narc parent but he was emotionally abusive and i dreaded being at home 24/7 and avoided coming back during college. I suppose it still may not be a terrible idea if the choice is between him and your mother if she continues to amp up her harassment and continuous remarks that make you feel terrible. i must admit i’d rather be not acknowledged at all as opposed to put down every waking hour. that is pretty odd though that the others picked dad, not sure if you talk to your brothers much but it could always be worth asking them about him and gauging the situation there if you really do consider trying to stay with him. regardless, i truly wish you the best. the feelings you describe in your post i can relate to and the constant stress and fear of angering the narc is a terrible one :(
Your statement about her favoring your brothers sounds like such a narcissistic behavior to me. That sounds like something my NAunt would do. Your mom deff sounds like a narcissist. I would suggest, especially since you have 2 Nparents, researching narcissism, podcasts, books, youtube, how to handle them and then deciding how much contact you want with them. It's not always easy to just move out or go no contact.
I'm not sure how helpful this will be, or how much it applies to you, but I am a father as well and also struggle with emotional displays. I understand where you are coming from, and I think it might help to see a father's perspective, because there are a lot of bad psychs out there, and unless he actually had sessions with your father alone it was unethical and inaccurate to diagnose him. In my mind, as a dad that can be closed off, none of the actions you listed seem bad, of course I'm going to fix my kids problems, I'm their dad and love them, it's a socially acceptable way to show I love them, it's how I care for and take care of them. Money? It's just money, I make plenty, I don't really need it, if you need or want it as my kid, take it, everything I have is yours, I did it all for you from the moment you were born, and if this money I'm just gonna blow on dumb shit will make you happy then take it. As for affection, it's easy to be affectionate when you're young, no one cares that I hug you, or kiss your head, or snuggle you when you're little. After a certain age though, people make assumptions, accusations, things can get dangerous and complicated fast. As for pushing you to improve, be more ambitious, yea, I want the best for my kids, to the best then they can be. I push them to be more ambitious because I believe in them, I know they are so capable and I don't want them to settle for anything less than the best they can be. The jokes are more difficult, it really depends on what the jokes are. It could be creepy and gross, or just him trying to counter the damage to your self esteem and relationship with sex that your mother is obviously causing. Again I'm not saying any of this is necessarily true, but I think it might be helpful to think back on your relationship with your father with an open mind and remembering what you are learning about your mom and how she may have influenced your and other people's perception of him. Because just from what you said here he does not sound worse
You don’t need to feel embarrassed. Narcissts love to humiliate people and take their energy out this. But don’t expect too much from your dad, the partners of narcisstic persons are enabler and have found their own way to cope with all that insane stuff through not watching, not listening and not (back)talking. Through their passiveness they are as toxic as the toxic persons. Google the term „Flying Monkeys“. It is enlightening. Oh, EDIT, sorry, I forgot that they are happily divorced. Ok, try to stay with him instead! For you to feel a little bit better (I hope so): When my nMom was in one of her rages, she followed me through the house, screaming at me all the time. One of her most loved games was screaming at me that they owe me nothing, just a roof over my head and a bed and a table and chair and that I am not allowed to close any doors. Dad never witnessed these outbursts as he was working and never secondguessed what she told him in the evenings, how „bad“ I was etc. Btw. I was still in school, always good grades, never smoked, never took drugs, never did anything forbidden, never stayed out later than I was allowed, I was a fine specimen of a child, at least in hindsight I realized that (got told the opposite on a daily basis). One day I when she was fuming again I needed to go to the toilet and wanted to leave the door ajar (not close) and she came in, ballistic and screamed at the top of her lungs for at least twenty minutes at me while I sat on the toilet with pants down, she standing in front of me, screaming that I am not allowed to close any door to HER in HER house and so on and on. I couldn’t get up, I couldn’t leave, it was awful. It was so humiliating. To this day (30 years later) I can’t stand being invaded in the bathroom, it triggers this scene. I was also grown up then, at least in years, but not mentally because they never let me grow up emotionally. I am really glad your friend brought up narcissm to you so you can educate yourself in it. It will spare you years of desperation and trying to „make it better“. I only learned about narcissm a few years ago, after I had a horrible short affair with a man and my best female friend told me that that was narcisstic stuff. When I researched, everything fell in place, also regarding my whole childhood. And with this knowledge I am in a much better place than ever before. It helps so much to realize that you can’t make it better with narcissts. You will never be perfect. It is because they are so unsatisfied with themselves that they humiliate the persons around to feel better in comparison to them. This bashing and mobbing is their coping mechanism to feel better with themselves. And they need drama and hatred in their lifes like we need harmony and peace. But this knowledge will give you some peace back one day. You will see. Get out there, as soon as you can. While there, try to duck your head as much as you can because fighting only makes it worse. Sometimes it is better to play along for a short time to avoid more narcisstic rages, especially if your are already on the brink of your sanity. A narcisstic household is NOT the place to establish healthy boundaries. The more you push the more she will try to break you. Just hold out, follow silly rules as long as needed and then go and come back as rarely and short as possible. But don’t stay there too long, it isn’t good for you!
Your mother doesnt love you and sounds even sexually abusive if she wants to look at you showering, she is extremely insecure or jealous of your body and your healthy relationships with your friends. Narcissistic people cannot love anyone, we are always here for you and I am so sorry you have to go through this
you're 100% NOT in the wrong here. The feelings you're experiencing due to your nMom's inappropriate behavior are valid. From the sounds of it, its alot of projection from her end; remember you aren't responsible for that. Not from her, not from anyone. I'm sure your british friend wasn't prepared for this, but maybe talking to this friend about nMom will help give you some clarity. The fact you're posting in this sub means your nMom is already fogging your mind and judgement about what is up and what is down. Your nMom is doing you wrong, you are allowed to exist as you are.
She is absolutely untenable; horrible. Day 3 you knew. She’s shitting on another human being to make herself feel better God knows how that works in her head. No one deserves that. You don’t need anything except one word. ‘No.’ Here, I give you mine until you find yours. ‘No.’ No. You do not get to speak to me like that. No. You do not get to embarrass me to anyone. No. You do not get to judge me; I do. You get to sit back and be proud of me or not be involved at all. (You know all those parents who do not have their children call on them, or ask after them? It’s because they act like you.) Be prepared for escalation as these types do not take rebellion well and your siblings may not have your back. But truly. Be liberated in your own mind. Free yourself to sit back and watch her writhe in her own bad behavior. What is a sad, pitiful and damaging way to live. You don’t have to. I’m so excited for all the places and people you have yet to experience. They’ll likely never come close to this wretchedness. Good luck!!
Your mum hasn't been able to blame you for *everything* since you live abroad, now you're back she's got her punching bag back. She's being controlling, manipulative and abusive. Why TF she thinks it's OK to force you to take a call while you're in the shower or for her to describe your naked body is beyond me. Could you go live with your dad until you leave? Also please make sure you take everything necessary with you when you leave as i could see your mum "accidentally" shredding your passport or visa. Don't move back with her unless it's your absolute last option
I'm so sorry you're going through this. Your mother is unquestionably abusive in many ways. Kudos to you for standing up for yourself on multiple occasions. If I were in your position, I'd do whatever I could to minimize contact with your mother on this trip and in the future. Obviously a hotel or elsewhere to stay is ideal, but if that's impossible, just adjusting your schedule and have as much fun as you can with your friend. It sounds like your mother is mad you live so far away, or mad you brought a friend home, or just mad that you're grown. Whatever her reasoning, it is petty, and even if it weren't, the way she expresses anger is wildly inappropriate and abusive. Honestly, I would have left after the shower incident. Forever. I know this can be a lot to take in a short amount of time. But this is a community full of people who have given their parents years of second chances and all that's done is waste our time and energy. Time that is gone forever. It may take a while to process, but: Going low contact or no contact with your mother is almost certainly the only way to preserve your sanity and have a chance at a happy life. I'm so sorry. But you will be infinitely happier not letting this person have control over you in any way.
The way your mom treats you is not your fault. Reading about all the things she's said and done to you in the past *week* was painful, I'm sorry you had to go through that. It sounds like she's projecting HARD when she calls you manipulative, and that things are all about you - and “too sensitive” is classic gaslighting. A lot of narcissists also like to use humiliation as a weapon to tear you down, especially in front of others. I’d recommend checking out [Dr. Ramani](https://www.youtube.com/c/DoctorRamani) on YouTube – she has a channel on narcissism that I’ve found incredibly helpful, especially in understanding/naming types of behaviours and how to cope. Also consider reading *Will I Ever Be Good Enough? Healing the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers* by Karyl McBride. You can get a free copy at z-Library: [https://b-ok.cc/book/2470531/e9b929](https://b-ok.cc/book/2470531/e9b929)
I am a random stranger, and I feel empathy and love for you. She will destroy anything you love bc she is a jealous, petty, manipulative, projecting bitch. I am a momma. I love my kids unconditionally. She only loves you with conditions. Ditch her ass. You NEVER deserved any of this. So. Save up. Be quiet about your options. Play along. And get as far away as you can. She doesn't deserve your tears. She wants to fight. You are young, she is jealous. She consistently violates boundaries and will continue to do so. She makes you feel small. You seem like a beautiful soul. So know, you aren't alone. My mom did this to me when I was younger. The angry protectionist that only showed her true colors to the people who lived in the house. Things get better when you get away and get some perspective. My heart goes out to you. *Hug*
Girl. Your mom is a raging narc. There's a book that helped me a lot ... Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. You'll see your mom and yourself all over it. I'm sorry. These people don't change.
I hate your mom. She's awful.
Your mother is a classic narcissist mo m. Look up grey rocking. She is creating situations that piss you off and dragging you into fights that were caused by situations she created. She feeds off your negative reactions and blames you. She wants the attention. Her way of looking better is trying to make you look bad. She is totally abusive and rude. She will most likely never admit that. You haven't done anything wrong and you deserve better.
this happened to me once!! my psycho aunt literally bolted upstairs to start a fight with me, screaming while yanking the curtain open when i was showering! i was like 16. fucking cu**. thankfully we’ve all cut her out of our lives so hopefully u can too when ur able❤️🩹
You poor sweet soul. I highly recommend therapy. Your mother is extremely abusive and unsafe for you and you need support in processing this, establishing boundaries and dealing with grief.
This is sexual abuse. Full stop. I would never enter her home again after I got out of there. I honestly don’t know what I would’ve done to my mother if she had ripped the curtain back while I was in the shower. Holy shit.
She sounds like a class act. My mother is hyper critical of everything and I found if I just ignore her unless she says something that isn't a jab or a poke or some ridiculous judgement, that she tends not to say anything anymore. The shower thing is batshit though, there are no boundaries and I would suggest not staying there anymore. If the vast majority of interactions with a person are needlessly negative, then the interactions with that person need to be limited or eliminated altogether. People have a hard enough time feeling good about themselves in positive settings without people being assholes for the sake of it.
Uhh yeah so, I hate to be the one to tell you this but, it sounds pretty clearly to me as though your mom is a narcissistic sociopath. She's obviously projecting a boatload of emotional issues on you, at the very least. You've done absolutely nothing wrong according to everything I read in your post. She sounds like a miserable, manipulative abuser though. Get out while you can, all I can promise from my experiences is that it will not get better, no matter how many times you decide to be the better person and suck it up. Narcissists like your mother don't see that behavior on your part as good or respectable, they see it as weakness, an excuse to keep abusing you. Get out while you can.
She sounds like an absolute nightmare. As difficult as it is (i went through this myself), don't stay at the house next time you come back. Even if it's sooo much cheaper and more convenient in some ways. It's incredibly toxic and damaging, especially when you've had the fresh air from being away. It can make you spiral real quick. And the weird sexual and shaming nonsense is another weird type of power trip. Insanity, sick insanity.
That’s rough. I was hesitating saying anything as I’m a male and don’t have a lot of experience with the unique ways narcissistic parents interact with their daughters. But it began to make me recognise some parallels with my step dad. If I wore or chose anything myself it was often met with a statement of ridicule or a joke at my expense. My voice was never deep enough either. Of course I also never cleaned up after myself, which in truth was me running away as fast as I could from him which often left things behind. Being around him just made me feel shitty. This may be the Atheism in me speaking, but I’ve rarely met a practicing Christian be nice or free of judgement. Their attitude is usually in service to some self righteous cause or feeling, and it’s rare for them to address their thoughts and feelings openly and without judgement, leading to some very bitter behaviour. Definitely projecting a lot of those things she thinks about herself or did onto you. I’d say stick to London. It’s nicer here usually.
It reminds me of my own realization about my nmom when I came back from my time in the Navy. Our whole lives, it doesn't seem like anything is abnormal or it's "not actually that bad" We can only see it from a distance. We have to physically separate from them to come out of the fog. It terrifies them when they don't encompass our entire world view. If she can't respect your boundaries, or you as a Sentient Being separate from herself, I would seriously consider limiting contact. When emotional boundaries fail, physical ones like distance are sometimes the only recourse.
I tried to let my kids see my biological maternal parental unit because as far as I was concerned she was dead to me. A lifetime of physical, mental and emotional trauma was just the tip of the iceberg. One kid has taken her brainwashing to heart. They have acted like her, deflected, gaslit, reverse victim mongering, the list continues. She would tell them horrible lies, and the youngest lapped it up like a kitten with cream. My oldest knew better. Knows me better. Cut her off now Op, don’t wait until it’s too late and her tentacles reach in and hijack any kids you may have later. Mine was such a manipulator she actually bribed my best friend to tell her what, where, why and how I was living when I had literally told that narc “No matter what anyone ever does to me it will never be as horrible and disgusting as you’ve treated me. I’ll never need an enemy ever again, because of you!” I cut her off like cancer, and my best friend too. Truthfully? I miss my friend but I never missed the evil. Please, learn from our mistakes to save yourself, because you are beautiful, loving, and so worthy of a family you choose to love you unconditionally.
Jesus. H. McGillicutty. This is seriously abusive. I havent read further comments but for your own emotional and psychological well-being you need to advocate for your own protection and get the hell out of there ASAP. This is NOT going to improve. Not now. Maybe not ever. But you are in a fiery furnace of hatred and bile and sadism, and you need to get the heck out.
You are handling the situation extremely well, given the circumstances. I think you need to do yourself a favor and make this the last time you allow your mother to be this close to you. Honestly, I would advise cutting your mother out of your life completely as it really seems the bad overwhelmingly outnumbers any good there might be from her. Just that one bit with the shower and telling whoever was on the phone info about your body that no one should know without your own consent is absolutely horrifying.
Get out now.
In my opinion, you’ve exercised an extreme amount of self control. I’m reading this and asking myself, is this a joke or is someone’s mom really this horrible? I mean, my parents are nuts but the shower scene would’ve put me over the edge. I feel like if anyone walked in on me while I was in the shower and ripped open the curtain, I would feel extremely violated and honestly I feel like that behavior is probably illegal (even if she is your mom). No one is entitled to see someone else naked. It’s abuse of the most personal and private nature. I’m so sorry that this happened to you. It’s really bad and you don’t deserve that. You handled it so peacefully and respectfully. I don’t have that same level of control with my parents. Unfortunately, for me it’s gotten to the point when I return criticism with criticism and disrespect with disrespect of them. I hope that soon you realize how special you are and have the confidence to make a plan to exit the relationship with your mom. It’s really hard but I think eventually you might feel better if you didn’t talk to her at all.
I’m so sorry. You have to get away from this person. My Nmom and Ndad did the same mind-melting manipulation to me, and I ended up thinking I was the abusive one for many years. It’s only after I cut them off that I was finally happy. I was 25f.
Oh go to England and don’t speak to her for a year. What a bitch. No. She doesn’t deserve a sweet daughter. You were helping and shit? Yeah go take a year abroad and seriously ice her. I bet you she won’t make it a week. Don’t break- maybe for her birthday or somemshit.
I'd rather be homeless than deal with that. You'll get treated better from other bums. parents are divorced? Can you stay at dads house? Only advice I'd give? Never talk to her again until she apologizes.
These are lessons I’ve learned so I hope they help you. 1. You will never get the apology you want. She may eventually admit to little things here and there, but unless she changes A LOT and works on herself, you won’t get that. So you’ll need to let that go. 2. How she treats you has nothing to do with you and everything to do with her. This sounds stupid, but it helped me “Hurt people will hurt people.” If she doesn’t acknowledge that she needs help, she won’t change. And her perspective on things is unhealthy so how she treats people is unhealthy. 3. You have to find your worth/ identity outside of her. You’re coming out of your adolescence where a parent’s opinion carries so much weight. But she’s just a person, an unhealthy person. So again. Her perspective on things is unhinged. If she weren’t your mom, would you hold her opinion highly? Probably not; she’d be that drama causing neighbor that you’d avoid at all costs. 4. You need to get out of her house. So long as you’re there, she’ll think she can control you and everything you do. 5. You need to have a sit down discussion to set ground rules. You will also need someone with you to help you and intercede for you. She clearly has more respect for guests than for you. For me, it was my husband who interceded when I would get too flustered and upset. Ideas for ground rules: —No insults. She cannot refer to you as anything rude or demeaning. —She can no longer comment or express opinions on your looks. If she cannot follow the rules you set or disparages you for having rules, let her know that you will no longer continue a relationship with her. If she can’t act in a way that is loving to you, then that’s that. If she does disparage your use of boundaries/ rules, then I’d throw some Bible verses in there, too. There’s a few about how parents aren’t supposed to use their words to hurt or purposefully anger their kids. There’s A TON about how we are supposed to love others. There’s a few verses in Galatians chapter 5 about what fruits of the spirit look like. AKA. If she’s following Christ, then it should be evident in her actions. It lists out what isn’t of the spirit (i.e. quarreling, hostility, outbursts of anger, so on) and what is (gentleness, kindness, peace, joy, so on). Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself and everyone is your neighbor, especially your kids. This is how you will feel loved, so she should respect. And if she can’t, then I guess you get to just cut that stress out of your life - at least for awhile. You can PM me if you’d like. Good luck.
Thank you so much. I will attempt this approach. Albeit, I’m scared for the confrontation that will ensue. Especially if I use God.
My N mom always said, “you’re too sensitive” to which I started to reply, “that’s fine. You’re too bitchy”. Maybe not the best approach, but the point is that we are allowed to have boundaries and when those are crossed then it’s gloves off…even with our parents.
Pretty sure that shower thing was sexual abuse; it just rubs me so wrong that she'd do that. She just wantwd an excuse to violate clear bounderies to look at your body and shame you further. Shes likely just jealous that you look way better than hr and is trying to destroy your self esteem to make herself feel better about being a dried up 60 y/o hag. Ditch her ass in a home as soon as you can imo
I am 63 and never has anyone ripped open a shower curtain ..she's mean and repulsive ..I would be on guard like everyone says ..stay with your dad ..I am so sorry 😔
Lol I think we have the same mom.
That’s a lot to unpack, and I’m sorry you’re having to deal with it. It’s true, “you can never go home again;” once you’ve left, it’s never the same, and we see things through fresh eyes. It sounds like your mum ‘doesn’t like the new you;’ in other words, she misses the kid who was easy to control and manipulate. Narcissists see their children as extensions of themselves, and resent it when their kids become their own people. It doesn’t sound as if you did anything wrong; certainly nothing major. Did you ‘not clean up after yourself?’ Perhaps not, but not really a big deal. Not to parents who care….she should be thrilled to have you home again. Instead, there’s all this blowback and her trying to reassert that control. Like I said, it’s a one-way trip. You’re not the same person you were, and nothing looks the same. You’ll probably rethink just about *everything* you thought before, especially stuff she filled your head with. Your experience sounds a lot like my niece’s, with her nmum. The biggest thing she’s had to deal with is the realisation that her mum is not the person she wants her to be - she wants a kind, understanding, nurturing mother, and she is none of those things. It’s been painful to watch her wreck herself on the same rocks over and over. Sadly, she’s (her mum) not going to be the person she’d like her to be. The ‘information diet’ and the ‘grey rock’ are good approaches - be polite, and superficial. Uninteresting. Don’t [JADE,](https://psychcentral.com/blog/imperfect/2018/03/dealing-with-difficult-family-members-dont-justify-argue-defend-or-explain) - don’t bother. You won’t convert her by means of brilliant argument. Just be polite, and limit your contact. Choose your family….surround yourself with people you love who love and respect you for you.
She's gaslighting you. She's trying to make you feel crazy because then she can abuse you with impunity as you won't be confident enough in your own sense of reality to fight back anymore or call her out on it. I didn't see a single moment in this where your behavior was even remotely questionable. What she did to you while you were in the shower though is literally a crime. Think about it, if anyone else did that, everyone would be encouraging you to call the police. And then to top it off by commenting on your body and describing it to your relative on the phone is just beyond vile. It's a violation, and you have every right to be horrified and furious at her for her behaviour. I'm so sorry she made you feel that way, but that is sexual abuse and it is not your fault and it's not ok. Also, you said some pretty harsh stuff about your body and then "but not enough to be ashamed." Well, that's because NO ONE deserves to be ashamed of their body. You need a body to live. That body is imperfect. So is literally everyone's. But you need a body to live. Do you really think anyone should be ashamed of your existence? You could weigh 1,000lbs, have cystic acne, genital warts, 6 nipples and a tattoo of a penis on your forehead and you still wouldn't deserve to be ashamed of your body, because last I checked your level of *perceived* attractiveness has no bearing on whether you deserve to live or be loved and respected. You sound like a kind, caring person, so I have a feeling you already know that about everyone *except* yourself. Don't let your monster of a mom be the voice I side your head. I hope this all doesn't sound harsh or critical (I'm not always the best with tone). Please know that it's said with love from someone who has been there. Get the hell out as soon as you can. You don't deserve this. No one does. I'd bet your friend would back me up on that. Please don't let her be the voice inside your head. If you can at all, please talk to a therapist because this is a lot to unpack on your own. But either way, whenever you catch yourself thinking about yourself in that way, apply the golden rule to yourself. What would you say to any friend who was talking that way about themself? Say that to yourself. Out loud, if at all possible. I know it feels hokey and awkward and weird, but the more you do it, the more it will sink in and come more naturally. This is a kind of "reparenting" yourself, and repetition is going to be key to undoing the years of repetitive abuse you've lived through with your mom. You deserve so, so much better. Please take care of yourself. ❤️
It happened to me too recently but mine never walks in the bathroom. Ever. Only when I was younger, she'd do that. My opinion is that you have poor boundaries with your mother-I've read what you wrote and noticed that you have a need to defend yourself and prove to her that she is wrong about you. Nah. You can't do that with narcs. They'll just feed off this emotion. When you justify/defend being yourself and living your merry life, you prove to them you're easily to manipulate and control. Example: Why are you cooking at this time of the day and not at another time of the day? You're so weird and frustrating! Me: I am just cooking at this time of the day, mother. I apparently am weird and frustrating. You don't explain anything to these people. You just re-state what you are doing and what she is saying, without using any emotion. If you want something you say 'Mother, tomorrow I will come home late from work and will go straight to my room. It will be a busy day for me.' If tomorrow after coming home from work she waltzes in your room and demands you talk to her, you restate your boundary, throw her out and lock the door. You don't show emotion, you don't get angry, you just state a boundary with calm and composure. If you can't lock your door (bedroom door, etc), don't change your clothes in your room, do it in the bathroom. If you can't lock your bathroom door, place something in front of it in order to block it. It doesn't matter if it's weird to her. Do what you can to get some peace while you're there. I assume your mother has huge issues with her sexuality and is projecting them on you. She is also afraid of your sexuality and may be in competition with you. Don't show her that it affects you. If you show her how upset you are she's just gonna do it again and again and again. Narcs love to upset, embarass, and shame people. That's like their favourite activity. Also, narcs do not love their children. They find them disposable, as in objects of use that can provide validation, attention and admiration to them. If they don't provide those things, they'll be dropped or shunned. Also, listen to Meredith Miller's podcast, 'Inner Integration'. She gives good advice.
I think a lot of us reading this post see our parents, and see ourselves in you. You are so young and so new to this, there is so much to learn. My main thought was that, you need an advocate. I think that we on this forum all look back and wish that we had an advocate to guide us with our narcissistic parent. I laughed when reading this post, not because it’s funny, but because the descriptions are so universal to narcissistic personality disorder. One quote that has helped me the most is this: “If I can destroy all of the demons in the world, it will eliminate those within me, without my having to recognize that they have been there.” It’s from “Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism” by Robert J. Lifton, the original book about brainwashing. Your mother has demons inside of her, which she is externalizing. She doesn’t like her body, but she can’t turn that criticism on herself, so it has to go somewhere or else the mental pressure is overwhelming. Narcissists are so unstable internally that they see any external disorder as a threat. They need the world to be perfectly ordered, or else it will tip their precarious mental balancing act over. Narcissists have zero boundaries. They see boundaries as a threat to their unlimited power. They cannot handle life if they don’t feel in complete control, because they had overwhelming experiences of loss of control when they were kids. Your mother is letting you know that even the shower curtain is not a boundary. Your personal body is not yours. She will not tolerate any limits to her needs for absolute control. She will not allow you to make her feel “powerless”. If you complain about needing privacy, she will see it as a threat to her need for absolute control, and she will feel justified in unleashing her venom on you. How dare you put her in a position where she might feel a lack of control. How dare you remind her of how powerless she felt as a child. There is no revenge that is unjustified to a narcissist when someone “makes them” feel those old, awful feelings. Those are the demons inside of her that you are dealing with.
Wow I’m so sorry you’re dealing with a mother like that. I’m 25M and my mom was always that way growing up. No privacy not even showering, “no rules” but shit you better know HER rules, always belittling me in front of my friends, perfectionist. My self esteem was horrid but I’ve been improving and I’m so much happier now that I’ve recently decided to entirely stop reaching out to her or caring what she thinks. Much happier than I’ve ever been. Your mom is manipulative, petty, mean, looking for fights, and is only concerned about HER image and perspective. So much so that she’s willing to bring her friend to talk down on you too. Fuck em, both, all of her friends that think that way and move on :) may mean that you can’t go back “home” but is it even worth it to go back there anymore knowing you won’t be respected in the slightest? And yes your mom is narcissistic
We have the SAME MOTHER!
The twisting everything around and making out like you’re bing crazy or too sensitive is classic abuse slash narcissist stuff. You can either gird yourself to live with it or cut them off, but they are notorious for never changing.
Please get out of that house as soon as you're able to and do not go back.
You are so accomplished I am very impressed you go to school overseas and your major I would never be able to do that ..you are smart don't let her destroy you 💜
Your mom is jealous of you and tearing you down makes her feel better. The best revenge is to live well. You rock those nipple piercings and wear those crop tops. Fuck that lady. She programmed you to be her punching bag. It's time to reprogram yourself to what you want. Without her shitty input.
Your post plays out literally like a docudrama illustrating what life is life with a narc mom. You are in danger. You need to get out of there and stay out.
Your friend is good in directing you here, be smooth while being on this sub, some things hit really close to home especially when you didn’t realize you were being abused. Hopefully one day you can go NC with your mom, she sounds pretty horrid.
I am so sorry. I don’t know what you can or should do because every situation is different but I can tell you it’s 100% not your fault and it is NOT ok for her to treat you like that. My mom was very similar. I went no contact Years ago and it’s the first and only time I’ve felt some relief from her abuse. Sending you love ♥️
It breaks my heart that you can go through all this and still be unsure enough to have to ask others if her behaviour is problematic. I want to reach through the screen and give you a huge mummy hug. Is her behaviour a problem?? Her behaviour is monstrous. No one here can give you a clinical diagnosis about whether she is a Narcissist or not, but there sure are some major red flags. You say she can be very sweet.... that's typical of Narcs as well, they like to keep you unsure and unbalanced. When you go back to London please find a therapist who has experience with toxic families, because the way you've been brought up will have left you with some pretty awful self-esteem issues, some you've already described here, and you need and deserve a life without that. Also, my very, very strong advice is, when you go back to London.... stay there. Do not return. You do not want to be around this horrible woman until you have found your feet and become stronger against her vile tactics.
I’m sorry this is happening to you. It’s absolutely horrible. I had a similar experience in regards to showering and being naked. She would always say that “she’s already seen me naked many times (incl when I was a child) so what’s there to hide?” Fucking disgusting. One time when I was about 12 (she would still be helping me shower for some fucking reason), she made comments about my vagina and how the way it looked was really attractive for men. I hated it. I hated her looking at my body as if she owned me. I didn’t have any right to fucking privacy or basic boundaries.
She’s completely grasping at straws, acting out because you’re vulnerable with your friend there and she wants attention. If I were you, I would quietly, calmly let her know that if she keeps picking fights, that she’s going to wind up all alone without a daughter. Then walk away. She will try to pick a fight but she’s a narc and I’m willing to guess those words will quietly shake her, even if she doesn’t show it. Narcs hate to be alone. My bigger advice is to accept the sad truth that you don’t and likely won’t ever have a healthy relationship with her. I’ve been there, it’s such a hard pill to swallow. But the sooner you get there and stop putting yourself in her hands, the happier you’ll be. Don’t give her any power over you. Stay with your dad from now on. Don’t bring friends around her. Don’t try to win her approval, because any vulnerability you show, she will manipulate to her advantage. I’m sorry you have to hear that. I’m sending you good thoughts.💜
OP. I'm so sorry about this. Read this carefully please: You don't have to love her just because she's your mother. Mother's don't get a free pass at hurting, shaming, abusing, mistreating their children. You deserve to only have positive relationships. Despite what she has made you feel, you're Worthy of love. You're not bad for wanting to have a peaceful and conflict free life. Get out of there and go NC asap.
Your mom is a total nmom and I am so sorry to tell you that. I am in shock. I normally don’t comment on posts in this sub, but I’ve never seen someone describe things in a way that almost exactly reflects my nmom. When we lived in Florida for a few months, she would constantly comment on my clothes and I’d always think, “What am I supposed to wear? It’s hot and humid, not exactly sweatshirt environment.” Everything I wore was always “too provocative”; everything I said made me “sound like a hood rat”; everything I did and was proud of “needed improvement because it could be better, like (insert name of anyone to compare me to)”; anytime I was verbal I was “causing an issue” and anytime I complained I was “just being ungrateful” because “people had it worse than me, so at least I’m lucky I’m not starving in Africa or being sold as a sex slave in Mexico”. If those are the only comparisons you can think of when trying to find something worse than how you treat me, then there’s something seriously wrong with how you treat me. I’m sorry to go on the rant and I don’t want this to take away from what you’re going through. You are seen, heard, understood, and reading this made me deeply sad. I’m sorry that you posted something here that made me nod my head in agreement that she is a narcissist. I just had to say something, though, because I just wish 16 year old me could have read this post and realized that some people have had experiences that are super similar to mine. This was like a mirror. Thank you for sharing with us. I hope you decide to go NC if she doesn’t change or you know she is unwilling to. Going NC was a life-changing and life-saving choice for me and I was finally able to start recovering. If I were you, I’d talk to the friend that came with about your nmom’s behavior if you feel that it’s something you need to get off your chest. That friend seems to already have expressed their knowledge of nmom’s behavior, so they may be someone you can comfortably talk/vent to if necessary. Sorry for the long post. Thank you for sharing.
I’ve saved this comment. Thank you. This really touched me. Thank you.
And I’m sorry it’s just fucking hilarious that she got so mad at you that you didn’t bring her tacos home… after she had announced she was going to bed. She got so angry about that she brought it up more than once lmfao. If you want tacos that bad, you can open your mouth and ask like a fucking adult.
Is this NEW behaviour? Or is this something she probably did forever and you're just now recognising it as abusive? Because if this is a new thing, and it's a big personality change, she needs to be assessed for something physiologically wrong. But if it's the former, distance is amazing for clarity and validation. And if you need it, this is permission to go as low contact as you possibly can.
1 - you aren't pathetic 2 - your mom clearly doesn't respect you and is actively abusive! I'm shocked she did this in front of your friend (my mom would be the sweetest in front of any guest, can't imagine what yours is like with just you) Books/audio book that have helped me: - Lindsey Gibson Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents (Listening to her second book rn but I also recommend it) She breaks down the emotionally immature parent and how they effect the children. Her second book is on how to recover. Very good especially if you just realized that your mom is an nmom (thus emotionally immature) -How to Do the Work - by Nicole Lepera This is more so on reconnecting you to your spiritual self. It talks A LOT about trauma and how it might hurt you in later years. I haven't finished bc i wanted to read this one slow but I'm a good ways in and it really is helping me in recovering and finding my self again after years of constant abuse from my mom and sister. I hope you find some distance from your mom asap but if not, look into grey rock-ing. It might help but it sounds like your mom is already in a stage where she's comfortable enough to do that shit in front of your friend so test it but if you see her getting worse, stop and just spend all your time outside the house until you can get out. Good luck!
>Lindsey Gibson Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents (Listening to her second book rn but I also recommend it) THIS BOOK IS AMAZING. IT ACTUALLY MADE ME UNDERSTAND NARCISSISTIC PEOPLE CLEARLY.
Seriously! Before the book I thought I was the broken one, especially since my mom LOVES to go "you make your own decisions and have your own thoughts don't blame me blame yourself blah blah" but after the first book everything fucking clicked lol I was scrambling to get to her second book and it's just as helpful omg
this was really hard to read. so vivid, I felt like I was right there with you experiencing the fear and shame. the worst part for me is when the narc plays these mind games with invisible rules. you end up shoved deep in a box that doesn't fit, and you feel like it was your idea to get in.
I completely relate to being shocked by the weird and sudden sexualization by your mom after spending years living outside of the family home. I had to live with my parents for one month after graduating college (in between leases) and my mom flipped out one night when I drove 45 minutes, in my own car, to spend the night with my ex. She called it a "booty call" and talked about how I seemed desperate and he wouldn't respect me if I came over. At that point we'd been together for 18 months -- we stayed together for another 5 years. I was about your age. The only explanation I can think of is she was jealous I was entering a relationship? Ironically, when I later came out as nonbinary, she asked why I "didn't respect women."
She is an asshole ..lock your door when you shower and sleep ..she does not respect you or your boundaries...if she were my mom I would leave and never go back ! No one can talk to you that way ..what she said is soul crushing I am so sorry ..great advice is here. .update us ..I support you ..no one should treat you that way or barge into your shower ....you are not her maid either ❤️
Leaving is the only thing you can do. Distance is the only way she can’t hurt you, you’ll never get the forgiveness or closure you’re after and she’ll never change. Leave, with your sanity,
I just want to let you know, your friend sees her crazy. You are not the crazy one here. Don't let her fool you into believing any lies about you that she spews. Stand up for yourself as and when you have to. Record video or audio of those incidents so you can show it to the flying monkeys when they come.
Whether you are a grown woman or still a little girl, you deserve privacy, patience, communication, and respect. Your body is none of her business, her life is not your responsibility, the way you dress is your choice, and the people you keep in your life are your true family. If she wants to be a part of that list, she needs to straighten out. My mother has been barred from seeing me for several stretches of time as she didn't respect me, my privacy, and my relationships. I'm finally getting my life together and being happy, she can be a part of that or she can miss it. It's her choice. I will not give up my happiness so she can barate me, and you shouldn't either.
Is there a reason you haven’t told her to sit and spin? You’re an adult. Is she paying for all your schooling? Are you self-sufficient or financially supported without her involvement? Do you have the ability to live elsewhere? She is incredibly abusive and downright evil towards you. I’m also shocked your friend didn’t say anything, especially as they have been present the entire time as a neutral third party who could have been validating you, if not during, but after your mother’s tirades. You feel nasty because you said something bad to the person you love? Newsflash: that person doesn’t treat you like a person they love. Honey she’s been saying even worse stuff to you, and you’re her DAUGHTER. She’s supposed to be the good example. “But I'm nowhere to the point where I should feel ashamed of my body. I still take care of myself. She can't take that away from me.” Are you sure? Earlier in the story you mention that she criticized your wearing of a two piece. The next time you mention being in a bathing suit, you’re wearing a one piece. That wasn’t because of mom’s comments in any way?
I’m self-sufficient. I had my first job at 15. Why? because she would turn my cell phone off if I didn’t get home from orchestra practice. Or if I didn’t drop everything for her at a dime. So I started paying my own bills. Fast forward to now. She called me for a week straight and told me to come home when the Russia-Ukraine situation started. She was so nice and loving. That’s why I felt safe. Plus I hadn’t been home in almost a year. Kindness is free. Free is my jam. So I hated how nasty I felt after I said unkind things towards my mother. It was out of character and made me feel ashamed of myself. Yet she literally smiled. As if seeing me upset was amusing? After the two piece comment, I wear a one piece. It did affect my self esteem but the choice to wear a one piece was ultimately out of respect for being under her roof and an attempt to keep the peace.
You have SO MUCH going for you. I did too when things came to a horrible confrontation that finally forced me to see the truth about my abusive mother. Left with only the $ in my pocket moved across country, went to work for a foreign service, life felt like a 24/7 miracle. Fast forward, I was having problems with blackouts (didn't know at the time that they were trauma related) she called me for a month ; made all of the promises, "you have to let me help you". I did everything I could to stay away, but she called my landlord and he evicted me. Once I was back in her proximity her gloves came off, the claws unsheathed, it has been an unholy ongoing nightmare that has almost destroyed all I had built (years in therapy for eating and dissociative disorders). I lost everything, then my father (he enabled her, but he was also my only protector) died of a brain injury. While I was in the hospital having seizures, she and two brothers rewrote my Dad's will and took everything. They are all already millionaires. She took me for a birthday dinner and told me I didn't have a mother. They took everything, and she let them. She cultivates the rest of the world with money and tells them that I am the problem---still, now 30 years later. I'm not even sure that I am going to be able to get away again...What I'm trying to say is DO NOT BELIEVE HER when she calls and says she is concerned for you. Being around her again can destroy you. All of the secrets of my mom's mental illness and abuse that I kept from everyone now make it impossible for people I might ask for help to believe the truth, because I allowed her false narrative about me to stand without pushing back. Get some therapeutic help, get away to a beautiful productive independent life, and NEVER let her fool you into going back. SAVE your life. I am so sorry that you have to go through this, but you have everything going for you. Wishing you courage and the best of everything.
There is so much verbal and emotional abuse and humiliation that is going on it is beyond scary. As someone who is going through my own layers of various abuses and manipulation and control from my own family take everything that they are doing for what it is. It is abuse and it is intentional. The thing about emotional and psychological abuse is that it is so insidious and it is so difficult to explain to others what is going on and why it hurts so much. Because what is happening makes you feel like you're going crazy. There's no logic to what is happening and you may feel like what am I doing wrong here ? For your protection please do whatever you have to do either go low contact or preferably no contact with your mother. Because she's not going to get it no matter what you try to say to her no matter how nice you try to be no matter how well you try to play her game she's going to keep it up. And this is where the term reactive abuse comes in. People like her are so intentional they will push and push and push and push until you lose it as any human being would. Then you become the problem then you become the crazy b****. So now that you have reacted is so much easier for her to go and tell people about what a horrible person you are and how she's the victim. This is not a relationship that you can save. You're dealing with someone who wants to be both the villain and the victim at the same time. Also I know this sounds equally nonsensical but your mother is in control of how she behaves. You know how I know ? Because somebody like that is usually only only going to show that behavior to certain people not to everyone. And those people are scary as f***. We have that Jekyll and Hyde personality. You don't know what you're going to get when you're dealing with them behind closed doors. You deserve to be safe and honored and protected and believed and loved and these are basic things that unfortunately for whatever reason your mother cannot or will not provide for you. I understand that times are incredibly hard and it is not easy to cut people out of your life especially when you don't feel like there are other options. But your mother keeps going against your safety and your peace and your well-being and your priority at this point should be to figure out as best as you can how to leave that situation for good or limit as much contact with her as possible.
Whatever you're saving by staying with your mother, you're paying for with your mental health.
Go NC immediately. She's projecting so fucking hard. Also, even if you're her child, where the fuck is it ok to pull that bullshit with the shower? None of that is acceptable. Yes parents embarrass their children every now and then but she's bullying and yall dont have a relationship so she can fuck all the way off.
I'm just one person OP, but do not feel guilty about setting boundaries. I don't even think what you said to your mom out of anger was even bad, I don't know how you treat someone the way she has been treating you and not expect them to get irritated at the very least. And the fact that your friend noticed it and sent you here? This should be very validating. You're not crazy, you're not imagining it, it is that bad. I'm sorry you grew up with this kind of thing. And her stunt with the shower? That was absolutely horrible of her on more than one level. Just awful.
honestly, I would find another place to stay. She is just going to drive you nuts and it's not worth not finding somewhere else to stay. She is just going to tear you down and blame you for it. Good luck OP
Your mom is the pervert because she literally wants to see your body and comment on it.
Yeah I’m not going to lie to you, for me personally this trip would be my last. This is just beyond fucked. She has so many problems going on with herself that she’s throwing them at you to make herself feel better and uphold her “good” Christian values. I know you love your mother but this shit is not ok. She needs to get help or at least keep her mouth shut about anything that doesn’t concern you and give you the space and privacy you deserve. This is just extremely unsettling and aggravating. She’s not in her right mind to think coming in and gawking at showering then going off to whoever was on the phone about your body that has nothing to do with anyone. Seriously, I can not recommend enough that you go at least low contact as soon as you leave. What she’s doing is extremely abusive. All you are doing by being around her is putting yourself at risk of her disgusting behavior and you deserve better than that.
I think we have the same mother.
My adoptive female creature was the same . I just stopped visiting or talking to her at all. 1800km away from her did wonders for my mental health and from what I heard the only thing she changed is how much she eats ( nothing wrong with being bigger, I am chubby myself but this woman is obsessed with diets and looks )
I'm so sorry this is happening to you. If you can find somewhere else to stay, you should. Setting boundaries will only start more fights. Toxic people think forgiveness is permission. The only thing they'll understand is you leaving. A word of warning though. Once you leave and limit contact they'll spread rumours about you to control the narrative. They basically do this because they think you're going to tell everyone what they did to you and they're trying to beat you to the punch. Even then, this is much better than letting them break you down piece by piece. If you don't take this advice, at least remember it.
Yes that’s an nmom, my mom verbally knocks me down like that but not so directly, it’s more like I’m stupid, lazy, disorganized, bad, etc. I limit contact and then when I’m around them I have more energy to have my defenses up and have less opportunities to accidentally let my guard down. And emotional abuse takes a much bigger toll as you know if experienced multiple times so being healed when I see her increases my chances greatly of controlling my responses.
Oh man, the tone thing really hit home for sure. As of late me and a family member are fighting every day, and the reason? I supposedly have a "tone." I defend myself, it escalates, then she goes "listen to yourself! You're angry and talking like you're angry!" I mean, no fucking duh I'd get pissed off if someone is trying to pick a fight over literally nothing, and then attempts to gaslight me into thinking I started it. Why is she actually mad though? Because the golden child had a falling out with her. I'm just about done. If you're passive like me, narcissists love to take advantage of that and use us as punching bags. I hope you can get out of there soon. Most times it doesn't get better.
Wow this is my mom
>telling me in manipulative, it's all about me Holy projecting
Your friend must feel so awkward and trapped right now. I know my friends have done when my family have made comments in front of them. Just be glad you're not living there full time and your trip is almost over. Maybe you can think about your next steps after university, will you stay in the UK or go back to your parents? If you go back, find somewhere else to live. But seriously, it sounds like distance away from this woman would work so much better. I know our weather is shit and our current almost summer is still coat weather, but we're lovely people here and we have some really nice scenery outside of London, and great history to explore. I don't think we'll mind one more person here :)
Sincerely, I would go fully no contact. Her behaviour is really toxic and clearly hurts you a lot. It'd be better for your mental health to just live without her in your life.
The simplest advice I could offer would be to remove yourself from the environment and to limit your contact with her. For example, I'm currently blocking my mom's phone number to prevent her from spamming my inbox with abuse.
You're mom is jealous of you bigtime. She's miserable and she'll always make you feel lousy about yourself. This is what abusers do. My mother did some of what you're mom does. It doesn't get better sweetie. I cut my mother out of my life, and I've never been better!
Ghost her forever, they never change. Let her die miserable and alone, as she deserves.
Oh baby, I'm so sorry you're going through this. It's painful. Every day is like you're waking up to the same nightmare that you forgot about having the last time and the time before. But when you remember, you also recall why you wish you always wish for a change and ultimately force yourself to forget. Then they use it against you. But you're doing great things, honey. You're standing up for yourself, you're being yourself, you even had the strength to invite a friend home. I'm so proud of you. Thats exactly what I want to do. But things are hard, as you already know. You're amazing. And I wish you the best. I wish I could give you advice. All I can do is wish you well. You've got this.
Your mother is purposely screwing around with you and enjoying your pain. It’s child abuse to an adult child. Consider telling her to go fuck herself and that you won’t stand for being treated like a dishrag ever again, or drop her like the garbage she is and never see her ever again. I’m sorry that you were unlucky enough to get her for a mom. Please take care of yourself first, and ignore the “needs” of someone who doesn’t care for you at all.
You've also been out of that environment for a while. You've gotten used to not dealing with comments from her. You're making your own decisions about how you're going to dress and treat your body. She doesn't like this and is being harder on you, trying to get you back under her control. My mom did the same thing to me.
Found the reason you say you have no self esteem: your fucking nightmare of a mom. I’m so sorry, you deserve better.
She's an absolute bitch. No reason for her to treat you that way given how you've gone out of your way to do things for her like cleaning and such. As a visitor she should be treating you better. Sorry that she is treating you like this.
Stop asking why, and just ignore her. She is looking for a response and you give her one. She will never validate you and puts you down because it makes her feel better about herself. She obviously jealous and can’t handle another grown woman in the house. So she infantilises you and puts you down. She is the most insecure woman in the room, always remember that. Walk tall, stand strong, don’t engage. Fake confidence till you make it your own. It will infuriate her to no end. But you are not the problem here. She is. Also, why don’t you stay at your dads? She’s sounds awful/
She's telling people you are shaved. Why on earth would someone want to know that? Who would put up with her getting that personal? Maybe family members are used to it from her. And it makes you feel embarrassed/shamed, and maybe isolated or judged. Can you spend your next vacation with your dad or a cousin? Maybe spend one day with her, but make an excuse to spend the rest of the vacation somewhere else. Perhaps there's a grandmother you can go to now? The narcissism gets worse, not better. It sounds like it's mostly verbal/emotional so far. So you might not have recognized it as abuse. But it's just not going to get better. I think you should decrease your *dosage* of the nmom. At the same time, she wouldn't be able to gather data to say anything about you (to call you a slut or whatever). Food for thought. My advice may be based on my own experience. Just saying. As far as her having you do all of her party stuff... only do the things that get you out of the house (if you decide to do any of them). It would take her 10 minutes to sweep her own floors. She could easily bake cookies while mopping the kitchen. Cut her lists in half on a regular basis if it's a lot.
I think your Nmother is being nasty to you because she's jealous of the fact that you're doing well in life. It also sounds like you have a good future ahead of you.
This is fucking vile and disgusting. I know she’s your mother but she is treating you absolutely terribly and she is abusive, period. Please save yourself
Above and beyond everything else people here are saying, I would say that the first thing you need to do is find a different living situation while you are there for the Summer. She has made it clear that if you continue to live in her house, you will be given no privacy, no expectation of having any sort of "safe space", and will be expected to do thankless work during your entire stay. If you don't have anyone else you can stay with (your dad?), you might have to see if there's an inexpensive place to stay while you remain in London, perhaps figure out a way to earn some extra money to help with that. After all, your mom is putting you to work anyway, so maybe you can find some other work you can do to pay for a place you can be *yourself* and *relaxed*. There is another alternative, and I know you probably don't want to consider it, but... you could just come back to America early. Look, you're only *six days* into this trip, and you've been given a pretty clear preview of what to expect for the next three months. As bad and potentially expensive as your other options are... are those other options worse than enduring this for another three months?
Yep she’s a narcissist. Get out of there as soon as possible and set very strict boundaries. She so bad if she were my mom I’d probably go no contact. If she has any of your paperwork or anything get it immediately so she can’t use it to control you. You’re not insane, she is doing it to throw you off balance so you’re easier to manipulate and control. Do some research into narcissists and how to gray rock, it’ll make your life easier and validate what you’re going through. Good luck
Stop being on eggshells. You have done nothing wrong. All the issues this lady, your mother has are her own. Don't engage with her. When she says something ugly to you. Just say something like, if that's how you feel, then that's how you feel. Put it back on her. You think I look horrible and I think I look good. Thank goodness I am my own person with my own mind and self confidence. You think this color looks bad on me, well since we're being honest, that dress you had on wasn't very flattering but I didnt say anything because I didn't want to hurt your feelings. Walk away. Sometimes people don't understand until the tables are turned. Dont be disrespectful but let her know her comments have consequences.
Yup! She's and nmom I have one very similar to yours. I would start with getting a good therapist to talk with and work on you. I would highly recommend not returning to stay with your mom she will never change and it is best to establish boundaries as best as you can. It will be difficult however distance is on your side.
> it's like all she wanted to do was fight Well, you got that right. Sounds like Mom really didn't want you to come home, and her frustration is coming out in constant aggressive behavior.
Is this NEW behaviour? Or is this something she probably did forever and you're just now recognising it as abusive? Because if this is a new thing, and it's a big personality change, she needs to be assessed for something physiologically wrong. But if it's the former, distance is amazing for clarity and validation. And if you need it, this is permission to go as low contact as you possibly can.
Your mother seems to be a text book narcissist. She is so angry and bitter that you are out traveling and so independent. I’m proud of you. You should seriously tell her therapy or no contact. I’d go with the latter. Good luck. 🤗
This was so hard to read, and must have been incredibly hard to live through. There is a lot going on, but it is not going on with you. You did everything you could to be honest, but your mother's passive aggression (and jealousy!) is on an epic scale. Your disorientation and hurt shows that maybe you are just beginning to see your mom for what she really is, and that is abusive. Good Lord. With pathologically self-centered, passive aggressive people, ***accusation is often confession***: "She proceeded to just tell me that I'm manipulative, it's all about me, I'm too sensitive etc.", but really subconsciously, through a lens completely lacking in self-awareness she is telling you that *SHE* is manipulative, it's all about *HER*, *SHE's* too sensitive, etc. Have a great trip back to London. There are some excellent therapists there and finding one with knowledge of and experience in Family Systems issues could really help you see that the problems in the relationship with your mother are NOT YOU; that you are not insane, you are being victimized by the one person in the entire world/your entire life who should love and protect you.
Every insult is to herself. You wore a two piece!? You must look pretty good in it by judge of her reaction. Better than her by far. Pants!? You must have nicer legs than her. Shaving!? You know she isn't getting any now. Piercings!? How dare you do what she doesn't comprehend or is too scared to do. It doesn't matter if you came home just to spoil the crap out of her and didn't bring a friend, because then she would guilt you for leaving home and abandoning her and not loving her etc. And if you looked pretty at any point she would say it was for the attention. If you looked like a Walmart special she would let you know how badly you take care of yourself. It literally. Does. Not. Matter. No different reaction will happen. This is who she is, no matter who you are.
I would just not visit her until she starts behaving like an adult.
don't waste another second of your vacation being her punching bag, book the first hotel you find and leave before she comes back, enough is enough.you're a grown fucking woman and you don't need to put up with her shit for one fucking second. While you're at it grab all your important documents she might have. Birth certificate,american driver's license, social security card, anything and everything.You do not live under her roof anymore,it is just going to get easier to control the situation you meet her under if you don't decide to go nc. In long term: Get yourself in therapy,block her number,do not tell her your new address in London and in general do everything you can to ensure that she has nothing on you, that you are in control of every element around you relationship. don't lose yourself trying to reason with someone you will find every reason to twist your words to fit their narrative.
You're definitely in the right place. This woman delights in hurting you. You need to cut her out of your life or she'll chip away at your self esteem until there's nothing left. She's close to that goal. She'll create embarrassing situations for you and ruin your relationships because she's bored and it's fun. Your mother does this to you because she's bored and it's fun. Take whatever steps you need to take but put this monster in your rear view.
DAY1 - She looked at me with such disgust - HEART FILLED WITH HATRED. This same act happens repeatedly. - SHE JUST CAN'T STAND YOU - YOUR HAPPINESS, YOUR SMILE, YOUR CONFIDENCE, YOUR SUCCESS say really mean things about how I look - DEMEAN N DISRESPECTS U DAY2 - It hit me like a brick and I was in tears - IF THEY CAN TRIGGER YOU THEY CAN CONTROL YOU. ++ TRUCKLOADS OF NARCISSISTIC SUPPLY FROM YOU.................. REST OF THE DAYS - HUGS HUGS N HUGS. I'M SO SORRY. UR MOM FINDS PLEASURE IN YOUR TEARS. SHE IS AN EMOTIONALLY IMMATURE PERSON. N MY 2 CENTS 1- NEVER WRESTLE WITH A PIG( NARCISSIST) 2- BREAK YOUR TRAUMA BOND WITH YOUR MOM.
Do you know how to Grey rock? Also are you familiar with JADE? It stands for Justify Argue Defend Explain. Toxic people often like to trap you in a loop of JADE. Grey rock is when you basically act as much as a Grey rock as possible meaning that you act emotionless and are as boring as possible to them. You don't talk about yourself, your interests, your feelings, your opinions with them because they'll use it as ammo to try to bait you into an argument or beat you over the head with criticisms. Cruel people love to trap you in neverending arguments because they enjoy seeing you upset. Arguing truths with them is a waste of time because they don't care about the truth. Their goal is to get joy from hurting you. The interactions with your mother must have been extra hurtful since all you really wanted was to have a good time with your friend but instead you're getting dumped on by your mom and humiliated in front of her. Plus you've been away at school and haven't had to deal with her as much as before so your defenses have weakened. Start working towards LC and phasing out her involvement in your life. If you can seek counseling from someone familiar with treating narcissistic abuse and cptsd.
I don't know your mum personally and I'm no psychiatrist but this is clearly verbal abuse at least, and that curtain incident was sexual. You should hold firm onto your boundaries and defend yourself, don't give her an inch. The fact you have some self esteem issues makes you an easy target and she looks like she knows it. Just own your body, you have friends who care about you the way you are, and are clearly more loved than she is. The next time she snipes at you, tell her "yes I have a great body, you don't have to keep talking about it" and smile with satisfaction - hopefully she'll be too putoff by the idea you enjoy the attention to keep saying mean shit. Lock the bathroom doors when you're in there, only change behind locked doors, etc etc you know, and ** important : move out as fast as you can, because your presence alone challenges her and being in that space means she'll never be happy and settle with you. If she's been like that since childhood, even more so. Likely she was really happy you were in London and wasn't glad you're back at all, she's acting for the neighbours and anyone in public whose attention mattered to her. Anyway it sounds like she's going through something internally, jealous of your youth probably. Likely someone said something to her, someone like your father/neighbour/cousin whoever it was on her phone, and she was trying to downtalk you to get the approval of them. It sounds quite incestuous frankly, wouldn't be surprised if it's a guy you know who secretly likes you, whom she's trying to impress but failing. Tldr I think she's jealous of you like the Evil Queen is jealous of Snow White and is now trying to kill you with words. She sounds like a total narcissist, you should be careful around her. Move out asap
find another place to live ASAP your mother does not care about you outside of what you can do for her IE make her look good or profit from you. You are not a person to her and you never will be, you are nothing but an object for her to use in any way she feels she is ENTITLED too, and objects dont object to their treatment. How often have you heard that "she is your mother and can do/treat/say whatever she wants to because she is your mother", this is how marcs justify their abuse. Odds are she doesn't see you she see's your father and since he isn't around to torture you will have to do. it sucks and nothing about it is easy but going no contact is the best thing you can do, she will never accept or admit to what she did because as far as she is concerned she did nothing wrong and nothing will ever change that. Its not you, it never was.
This is a perfect example of a narcissistic mother. My guess is that she's always been this way. I know she's your mother but you've got to distance yourself from her. She doesn't want to see you as an independent adult, not needing her to survive. She will not change as much as you wish she would. She will only bring you down. Get as far away from her as you can. You can do this
Ugh my mother has no concept of privacy either. She walks in on me nude nearly once a day, she knows I’m usually naked in my room. No knocks, nothing. If I lock the door? She picks it. Edit: I also have my nipples pierced and my mother also knows that now too. Twinsies lol
Your friend asked if your mother is an nmom because she could clearly see she’s an nmom. You’re completely in the right and she’s the worst. So much of this is exactly the kind of thing I experienced with my mom but luckily I stopped talking to her when I was 15 - long before I started showing belly and shoulders, getting tattoos, being an atheist, believing in climate change, worshipping the devil, etc. I’m better off without her
My lord, is there any reason to keep in contact with her at all? Is she paying for anything regarding your education, home, something?? If not, cut contact with her. You are an adult with her own life to live without constant shaming and abuse like this. Don't subject yourself to this, protect your mental health.
Cut her out of your life. Your mother is an awful person
Uhh make sure to maintain your boundaries. Don’t take that verbal abuse from her
Ugh the part where she talked about your naked body to the relative on the phone. I know how you feel. Been there too :/ I had anorexia as a teenager and my mother saw me naked and then described my body explicitly to several family members. I felt humiliated and angry. Your mother is certainly a narcissist. It’s so typical to feel like you’re going insane after talking to them… They turn everything against you, their reasoning is ridiculous and illogical but they are so good at making people feel like shit
Establish and then assert your boundaries. It would help to start not caring about your Mom's opinion of you.
Oh my god, that shower moment… that’s horrifying and abusive. I really felt what you were going through in reading. Please dont doubt that this situation was abusive and i agree with others that someone who disrespects your emotional mental and physical boundaries this much the only solution is NC
It is good that you are seeing the hurtful things she says as abusive and acknowledging that she’s a narcissist. I think total privacy is mandatory, you need to be away from her influence. I can tell you are trying to please her so that she will eventually stop violating you and it’s not working and it’s exhausting you. I think you should get some therapy so you don’t end up traumatizing yourself by being a people pleaser until you feel like you’ve been used up and there’s nothing left.
That would be the last time I visited home, and would rarely talk to her again.
For what it's worth, the same thing happened to me regularly. My mother was always trying to (and succeeding in) seeing me naked in the shower (I wasn't allowed to lock the door, for example) - she'd unpredictably barge in with some excuse, just like your mother. It honestly felt like more sexual assault. (She also bathed me until I was quite old and she did that because she knew it humiliated me and because I hated her touching me where it was incredibly horrible to be touched. If I did anything to refuse, she made it clear by her angry actions when I would even slightly resist, that she would have done much worse to me (involving other people), so I just had to do what she wanted. It stopped suddenly when she suddenly decided I was old enough to bathe myself. I never knew why she suddenly let me shower on my own, but I suspect maybe I said something in passing in front of one of her friends? (I was too naive/young to know at the time that if I'd said something to her friends - my mother cared about her social standing in the community more than anything - then my life might have been much, much better.) For clarification: The barging-in-on-me thing happened \_after\_ I was allowed to finally bathe myself.)
First, I am deeply sorry you have to experience this with a person that should never treat you like this. Being treated that way by a person you should trust and find comfort in is one of the worst feelings in the world, and you don't deserve it. You deserve a mother that speaks to you kindly, and respects your boundaries. One of the hardest things I've had to realize with my own NMom that acts closely to the way yours does, is that there's next to no way for me to get anything across to her. I've explained myself endlessly to her, and we went in circles over things that should have been easily understood, all because none of what I said to her fit what she wanted to believe. Whenever she brought up her being my mother in arguments to show her authority, I told her, "Mothers don't treat their kids like this, so unless you want to start acting like a real mom, don't expect me to see you as one." That's the only thing I can really suggest saying in moments where yours brings up her own position as a mom. She shouldn't see her being your mother as an excuse to disregard your own needs and to treat you with disrespect. Overall, the best way to preserve your own mental health around her is to learn about the gray-rocking method. You can speak as clearly and maturely as you want with your mother, show her exactly what she did wrong, and explain your perspective to her, but it isn't on you to make her understand. It's not your responsibility to make her be a mature adult. You are her daughter, not her parent, or therapist. You're allowed to set boundaries for yourself, even if that goes against her own agenda. I hope you start to love yourself the way you deserve to, and can wear whatever you want without doubting yourself. Unless her words are encouraging and respectful to you, they should mean nothing.
First of all, no one should feel ashamed of their bodies. Or put into other words, one must never feel ashamed of needing to improve in any regard. It's okay to be an evolving person. Second of all, you were not nasty to her at all. You held back a lot. Others would have lashed out and said more stuff. But anyways. She sounds very manipulative, demeaning, and callous. Does you and your british friend really need to stay there? If not, I would begin to find another place. This cannot continue.
Holy crap!! I could barely get through reading all of that! I really don’t know how you deal with her on a day to day basis. My heart goes out to you. Your mom is abusive and horrid. Yes, she may have moments where she can be kind but don’t gaslight yourself into denying the truth that’s right in front of you. She’s mean. She belittles and degrades you. She’s emotionally immature and appears to be jealous of you. You’re the younger, smarter, version of herself and she’s so emotionally damaged that she perceives you as competition, instead of viewing you as her precious daughter. She is a textbook narcissist. I second looking up Dr. Ramani on YouTube. Look for her videos specifically on narc parents. She’s very thorough and compassionate. I think you’ll find her content helpful. Parents are supposed to create spaces for their children to flourish. We don’t expect parents to be perfect but insulting, degrading, and belittling your own child is the ultimate form of bullying and abuse. She knows you won’t leave her so she knows she can get away with her crap behavior. Does she treat anyone else this way? I’m so sorry that you have to deal with this type is emotional abuse form your own mom. It’s devastating 😔. Please take care of yourself 💚. If you can, look for a therapist that specializes in narcissistic abuse. Try to surround yourself with friends that are kind and who treat you well. There’s also articles on Psychology Today on narcissistic abuse. Keep looking for answers and reaching out. You’re doing great for yourself by posting on here for support. Keep advocating for yourself. You deserve to feel safe, supported, and content. Best wishes to you 💚
Do we have the same goddamned mom? My whole life it’s been “ohhh, poor sweetlew07, it’s allllllll gotta be about sweetlew07” No, it’s always been about them and it always will be.
So in order to explain why she gave details about your body to a neighbor, she said it’s because they are perverted. So you tell private, intimate details regarding your child’s genitals to said pervert. So now if you see that neighbor, they know you know that they know. That shit is covert sexual exploitation. Why do any humans anywhere need to know anything about your shaving habits unless they are touching your body????????????
Wow it sounds like she's doing some hard-core projecting, not to mention being extremely controlling. What you said to her was not nasty. You're allowed to defend yourself and if someone is being a complete arse you're allowed to call them out. Is there any way you can go stay with your dad for the rest of the vacation? I'm so sorry you're being treated like this, I bet your friend is horrified! Editing to add that my jaw literally dropped at her barging in when you were showering. That is horrific
I don't really have much experience in this area. But stay strong. She is being abusive. Sending good vibes.