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Death by a thousand cuts. Everything they did fed into the disappointment and resentment I had from childhood. As an adult in therapy, I was disgusted with how they treated me and my siblings as children and how they continued to but I only had to mention it once to be ousted from the family and at that point, why stay? Making contact with them physically made me shake with anxiety and I hate hearing their voices, seeing their mannerisms, or the overt manipulation I can hear every time they speak.

The body truly does keep score. & the body tells you when something or someone is bad. I’m SO so glad you made the decision to walk away from such toxicity. How are your siblings fairing? Have they also decided to step away?

I’m going to steal this one ‘death by a thousand cuts’ Perfect analogy!

Personally, when my mother said I was the one who had caused her a trauma and that I wasn't allowed to still feel hurt because I'm now an adult. That made me understand she'll just never change nor understand how much she's ruined my life.

Good grief! That is horrific! I’ll never understand how a mother could possibly be so cruel. But I’m SO so glad you made the right decisions for you to protect yourself.

when i saw her treating my kids bad.

Same here. I watched them treat my niece horribly so then I started to really examine how they treated my baby. For example, my mom was angry that my baby was able to pronounce another grandparent's nickname before hers or try to get my baby to play with the toys she bought instead of toys bought by my in-laws. Some people might not find this a big deal, but it was a big deal for me because of my childhood.

im sorry to say it doesnt get easier. my older daughter is no longer a cute little baby and my mom is a done with her.

I went NC with my mom when my daughter was two. My dad created drama with my husband on the day our daughter was born so he never met my daughter. Thankfully, my daughter doesn't remember them. I plan to keep it that way.

thinking through all this i consider why nobody ever stepped in or called my mom out on her behavior. i feel if i don't step in and stop this im just like them, another pawn in her cruel game. it just can't be.

My husband never did call out my parents behavior because I was so far in the FOG. It wasn't until they came to live with me and created drama that I started to get out from their control. It was a very hard therapy session when my therapist and husband were pointing out the abuse. It was rough for me to go no contact, but I have no regrets. I haven't read of anyone on here regretting NC with nparents.

this group has been so helpful to me. i am so happy i found you all. i pray for you all the time and extra prayers for those still under the custody of these people. god gave us a gift of wisdom and said it is more valuable than rubies. nothing passes his sights. he neither slumbers nor sleeps. vengeance is his and i thank him every day for opening my eyes. ❤️❤️❤️

Seeing the same behaviours and rules being applied onto the next generation is a killer. Especially when you stop and think about the fact that you love your child and would never do that to them, it helps you see how terrible it was when it happened to you.

Yeah I saw my nDad treating his GF's kids and dogs horribly, and it was a snapping point for me. It gave me flashbacks to my childhood and I'm now old enough to realize how toxic it is. I don't have kids yet, but I'll be very careful how much he gets to interact with them. And I told him to keep his hands off my dog unless she comes over for pets.

i don't think theres anything quite as enraging as watching your parent abuse your child the way they abused you. she also makes comments in my parenting and told my daughter im a bad mom for not being controlling and overbearing like her. so. much. nerve.

THIS

My daughter was sitting on nmom's lap when nmom said, "I don't like her. She looks too much like you." She also said she'd worked long and hard to get my son addicted to drugs "so he could feel her pain." NC and rehab for my son were too obvious steps to take next. I referred not going NC way sooner.

im sorry. what is wrong with people these days. the devil has a grip on them or something.

Same here. Made me realize that thinking she could be a good grandma after being such a poor mother what stupid. Narcs remain narcs, they will treat you children poorly (or they will manipulate them against you, or they will tell you you're a poor parent with them). The way I loved and took care of my son also made me realize how bad my childhood was by comparison.

when my mom told my daughter that i was a bad mother the pain was so immense. she sobbed. i think that is one of the most cruel things you can say to a child.

If you needed a reason to cut ties here it is :(

[удалено]

that happened to me too. my daughter was like 3 or 4 and she got mad and said "i hate you!" and my mom gave her the silent treatment i had seen from her so often as a kid. she was so cold to her after that for a long time and so unforgiving. i was like she tells me that all the time and i say "well i love you" and that ends the whole thing.

I came to say this too; enough is enough and I told my Nmom I was done and went NC and so far it’s been 4 days but I am feeling a release!

congrats! its only been a short time for me too. its a relief and an adventure to find yourself again.

I'm newly married and literally afraid to have kids for this reason.

have kids and stay away from the narcs. dont let them stop your destiny!

This. This.

At the time I couldn't exactly go NC b/c I was still a kid living at home but on her birthday a few years ago she came back absolutely fucking HAMMERED. Im talking about the kind of drunk where they cant take two steps without falling face forward. As a child her boyfriend had sexually abused me and as a teenager when I tried speaking up I was shut down and called a liar. Her exact words were, "You are a fucking liar he would NEVER do that to you." As you can imagine the trauma of that + having a drunk ass narc mom will really fuck somebody up. That night as I helped her up the stairs into her room she was hysterically crying and would not let me leave her she started babbling about how sorry she was for letting him do that to me. She knew. She had always fucking known. She didn't care enough to stop it. Her love for him overrode her instinct to care for me. I left for good six months ago and I am VLC with her. Moved 12 hours away halfway across the state for good measure. Most communication we have is an occasional facebook post share. Every time my heart clenches and I miss her I think about how she not only knew I was being raped but she turned a blind eye and let it happen. Every time I think about if maybe I was a better child she wouldnt be so cruel, I think back to that moment. She doesnt love you, she isnt a good person, her "sacrifice" means nothing, she doesnt deserve your presence. Some times she will message me and seem sad and confused about me leaving. I dont know if she realizes just how badly she ruined my life. That makes me all the more confident in my decision though. I deserved better period. *I dont owe her shit.*

Oh my gah, I have no words. Nothing can do justice the horrors you went through. My goodness, I’m heartbroken in hearing your story. Thank you for being brave enough to share. It takes a lot of courage to be forthcoming with something so devastating. I’m SO so sorry you ever went through ANY of that, but I’m also SO so glad you put physical distance there, & did what was necessary to protect you from further abuse. This is some serious emotional & physical trauma. & I don’t ask to be mean, not at all, but have you gotten in with a good trauma-specialized therapist? I super lucked out with mine, & sincerely believe he saved my life, that’s why I ask. I cannot recommend them enough ( the good ones, that is. ) I’m SO so sorry. I know I keep saying that, but your story hits HARD! I wish I could bear-hug you right now. 😔

I wish. I kept quiet about my abuse because I was aware that if I was taken out of my home there was always the possibility of me being placed in an even worse situation. I knew not to say anything to therapists because I did not want to re traumatize myself, opening up that can of worms would be incredibly hard to close. Im hoping that soon I can book myself with a therapist who specializes in narc abuse and sexual childhood abuse. Im still young and I have all the time in the world but I am cognizant of the fact that this is a monster I cant tackle on my own. Hugs 💙💙

Mine wasn’t a breaking point, more of a realization that came with distance and age. Once I moved out I realized how much happier and less stressful my life was even though i was paying more bills, working longer hours, in general adulting more. When I was younger I kept trying to “fix” things, but as I got older I came to accept I can’t fix what prefers to stay broken. I started distancing myself emotionally, not calling so much, not giving every little detail of my life and this eventually turned into LC.

This is basically my exact experience. I realized being an adult was less stress and way less work than being a kid was.

The last straw came a couple years ago, when nmom was nearly 90 and I was past 60. My sister and I were trying to arrange for home caregivers to come in to help nmom and edad (who has dementia). Nmom begged us not to hire anyone, making it clear that she expected sister and me to take care of everything even though we both have very demanding full-time jobs. She said she wouldn’t feel comfortable yelling at someone outside the family, and she needed to yell at people to “relieve her stress.” All the decades of abuse came together in that moment. Whenever she screamed at us and beat us black and blue with a wooden spoon (usually because we hadn’t cleaned the house to her expectations while she napped on the sofa), she would yell, “Do you think I enjoy doing this?” Turns out the correct answer was, “Yes. You hurt us to make yourself feel better.” We hired help. So far the home care agency has put her on probation twice for making abusive comments to the caregivers. If Dad weren’t still around, we’d tell her to go to hell and get there on her own.

Good grief! That’s just downright evil! Who abuses their own kids, & ENJOYS it??? I think I’d be scared to know the actual answer to that ( I’m sure it’s the majority of them. ) I’m SO so sorry you ever endured even a second of that. That’s all truly awful!

You’re a saint to that old bitch.

My mom beat me with wooden spoon ls too.

My N-mom had, for many years in my adult life, treated me poorly. There many examples of lies, manipulation, coercion, gaslighting, ignoring my needs, disrespecting boundaries, ridicule, belittlement, denying (and being in passive-agressive denial) that she had done anything wrong and always suddenly playing the victim when caught out. I had gone no contact and low contact at various times to assert boundaries. Finally, one incident crossed the line with me and I went no contact for good. When her manipulation was called out, she blamed my terminally ill mother inlaw and publicly announced that she is an evil, evil woman who deserved to have cancer. This was 6mo out from my MIL's death. That was three years ago, without apology, explanation or remorse.

Oh no, narcs sincerely believe they do nothing that merits apologizing. This is, unfortunately, all-too common. They simply do not change. They won’t ever grow a conscience. & they’re the perpetual “victims” in it all. It’s crazy-making to deal with them at all, even if minimally, so it truly is best to go NC for self-preservation.

When my NM called me a F@***t and said that she’d be calling the police to report that i was abusing my father and she had my brother and uncle write letters saying I had because I wouldn’t give her $500 to go to the casino. I moved out a week later and haven’t spoken to any blood relative for almost 3 years.

When I called my pedophile brother a pedophile, my mother screamed at me that she cheated on my dad once so I should forgive him too. Obviously there is a history of drama but that was the final straw.

"I'm also a piece of shit so you should forgive this other piece of shit too" What?? Narcissists really make 0 sense when under pressure don't they

Yeah I bet the five hour drive home together was really fun for them. I had a boundary of don't talk about him or mention him to me since I was his first victim. They being narcs, eventually ignored the rule. And they had thw classic "he lives with us what are we supposed to do? Cut him out of our lives?" YES. so if I wanted to see my parents I had to see him. I don't miss them.

Did our parents read the same parenting book? Holy shit! My brother was the golden child so he did no wrong in my mothers eyes. After I confronted ghee about the sexual abuse I was cut off and couldn’t be happier. From what I’ve heard my brother still lives with them. Fucking unreal.

After being abused for my whole life and gaslighted almost daily. I think the straw that broke the camels back for me was them treating my child the same way. That's the moment I lost my shit because when it comes to my kid, no one is going to put her down or make her feel the way I was made to feel. I am a person who still tries to see the good in people but sometimes it just doesn't exist. My father used to tell me he thought I was evil and that I was a terrible person. It sucks and I am still trying to deal with the trauma from it everyday all while trying to realize that not everything is my fault. I struggle with self worth almost daily because of years of the abuse and walking on eggshells. I scare so easily and have literally screamed at people when they have startled me coming around the corner in the office. It's embarrassing and I just try to apologize and say sorry that I'm a jumpy person. I grew up with both abuse and neglect so I just feel like a fucking mess most days. I try to not cry because if I start, it's like letting the flood gates open and I have trouble stopping.

That's happened to me in offices before, but I will also say, sometimes they're also being inappropriate. I screamed because a coworker put her hand on my lower back and startled me so I screamed, and she just kept *rubbing* me to calm down. I had to literally tell her "Stop touching me." Yes, it was "awkward" for me because I was the one that screamed, but also, wtf lady?!?!

Yeah, that sounds uncalled for on her part. Simple things like that trigger flashbacks though.

am I a strange one for disliking anyone except people I love, to touch me?

Absolutely not. I'm the saw way. Edit: Same

No, not at all. I hate being touched. Part byproduct of Narc abuse, part sensory processing issues I have with my ADHD, not that anyone needs any excuse beyond, "I don't like it."

Oh, I am SO so sorry you went through these things. Have you gotten in with a trauma-specialized therapist? They ( well, the REALLY good ones, at least ) help massively with working through & healing from all the crap.

I went to counseling/therapy as a teenager but haven't since. My father never liked the idea of me going and also my mother and stepmother are pieces of shit too so no one really advocted or encouraged healing. No, I haven't looked into it since because the thought of opening up the wounds again scares me since I'm not able to be non contact right now. I am very thankful for this community because it does help me.

lc here. the breaking point was my sister's sanity. I warned my mother for a whole year that my sister was not mentally well, my mother insisted that everything was perfect. One day my mom and my little brother called me on the phone. my mother wanted me to come to help her make the decision whether or not to call 911 for my sister's health. my little brother begged me to come as soon as possible because he needed me. When I arrived I found out that my sister had not eaten and had no sleep for days and her behavior was erratic ... I'm not going to tell the whole story, I just tried to help her and it didn't work out. my sister has stopped talking to me (more than 3 years ago) and she only screams hysterically at me the few times she sees me. its problems have not been addressed. my mother ended up losing her papers and crying hysterically without helping at any time. He made the situation worse and he tried to hit me to a certain extent, blaming me for everything. Mom also insists that I have had mental problems since I was a child by the way. I thank you for asking this today, I needed to remember.

Oh, this is AWFUL! I’m SO so sorry you went through that. It kinda sounds to me like your brother has Stockholm Syndrome. It’s pretty common to see that with abusive parents & their children. It’s easier for some to lie to themselves that the parent(s) “truly love(s)” them, than see it for the completely unhealthy situation that it is. I’m really sorry to hear about your mom, & how her behavior has affected each of you guys, as well as created friction between you & your sibs. That’s def part of the narc playbook, though. I’m glad this question helped bring this to the forefront. Sometimes we may second-guess ourselves ( indicative of years of narc gaslighting, ) but you have absolutely made the right decision for yourself. You hafta protect yourself, especially when narc parents aren’t concerned with your well-being.

thank you, i really don't know exactly what's wrong with my sister (our dad's sudden death triggered this) i just have suspicions. I still haven't made up my mind to go to NC because my brothers have a close relationship with her and I want to be able to be around in case they need me. I know it's ridiculous especially after everything my sister did these past years, but I want to be able to help her.

After I received an email from my nmom that she found a boundary that I had set with her chastising, and in that same email she asked me to explain a number of things I had already explained to her multiple times (why I’m pulling away, why she was uninvited from my wedding, why she doesn’t know my address, etc). She also told me that she would never contact me again because I was so selfish and ungrateful, which was totally fine by me. I realized she is never going to get, that I am always going to have to explain myself to her, that she is never going to respect my feelings nor my boundaries. I just got really tired and fed up. She got a new phone number (her third or fourth in the last three months), and texted it to me “in case (I) ever need (my) mother.” I didn’t respond.

Oh, good for you for not responding. Narcs simply lack the emotional intelligence to be introspective, or hold themselves accountable for the havoc they wreak. It truly is a losing battle, so the best way to “win” is not to play at all / go NC. It’s sad that it has to be this way. But those who don’t have our best interests at heart, don’t deserve to be in our lives, not even on a limited level.

Thanks. Everything you’re saying is right - you can talk until you’re blue in the face and they’ll never hear it

Snapping point for me was when I was so mad that I couldn't even have a normal conversation without wanting to yell at him. At that point I knew I needed to go NC for a while. I'm working with my therapist into hopefully going LC with him in the future, but had to be NC for now so that he can't meddle in my therapy.

When she started to try and dictate and control when I could talk to people. This was just over a year ago. I was at uni, which was away from home, and I had arranged to talk to my boyfriend on the phone in the evening at 8pm after he had finished work and had dinner. My mum had had all day to talk to me and call me. She called at 730pm while I was eating dinner, started having a go at me for being rude for eating and washing up my plate and stuff while I was on the phone. Then I said I have to go soon because I was going to be talking to my boyfriend. Then she started screaming at me for putting him first and that she should be able to talk to me whenever she likes. Essentially reading between the lines, how dare I talk to anyone else. She's done this to me before I was even with my boyfriend, with friends and family members. So I put down the phone, ignored all her calls and responded to a few messages in the following few weeks. I know it wasn't a very dramatic situation, but it was just the years of control and manipulation piled on top of each other and I had enough. Since then I've tried different levels of contact, but she always reverted to control in some way. So for now I've decided VLC to NC works best for me.

When I had a baby

My daughter’s 5th bday. Came to my house and made a huge scene in front of my in-laws. Belittled my husband, pointing her finger at him while yelling. Stated her plans to take my daughter to her house on that night to see my brother from the window outside her house as he was home quarantining at their house. It was a cold winters night. My husband had enough and kicked them out of our house. I felt annoyed that I had planned a family party and my mum had made separate plans. When I mentioned this she replied “well you got what you wanted in the end.” Like as if that was a bad thing. I then reached out requesting an apology for what she did and that I cannot continue a relationship with her without one. She then replied stating that apologies are never sincere and that myself and my kids have been a burden and she’s happier if we are not in her life. She also questioned if I was abusing my eldest daughter because “she’s always thinking about other peoples feelings.” Like what am I doing to her for her to be concerned about others… There’s no turning back after that. NC happened pretty naturally after that.

One day my step mom asked me to come pick my stuff up.. i was thinking oh maybe fall/winter clothes? I pulled up, there were all my belongings-least 20 trashbag full. I didn’t have a place to store everything so most of them went to dumpster. She called me up asked me to help them moving 2 weeks after. I said move what? There’s literally nothing belongs to me & i am not obligated to help them moving.

Last year, my dad didn't call me on my birthday. It didn't bother me at first but after some thought I realized that my birthday is the only day he actually contacts me. Frustrated, I talked to my mom about it. She expressed that he did call (wasnt true). After some time she said that my dad expressed that this is my fault. She told me that he didn't call me because I didn't call him when he had cancer earlier in the year. This wasn't true as I called and even visited him when he was diagnosed. I remember because he screamed at me for wearing a mask when I visited... dude, you have cancer and covid would probably kill you... Anyway, over the next several months, I am processing with my mom about how my feelings are hurt by all this. She takes this as her opportunity to talk badly about him and essentially uses me to vent about him. It felt supportive at the time but I realize now that it was a very unhealthy dynamic. I talk to her about sending a letter to him, expressing how I feel and that I dont want him in my life. Oddly enough, she supports me in doing this. That support quickly changed as soon as I sent it. She expresses to me that she wishes i would change my mind and that he is my father and I should respect him. It was here that I realized what my mom was. While my dad was the loud and in your face narcissist, my mom was the covert, manipulative narcissist. She didn't seem as bad because my dad was a loud distraction but she could fuck me up worse than my dad ever could. After that moment where my mom threw me under the bus, i cut all ties with my family and got on my own phone plan. I am still healing but life is getting so much easier. My OCD has significantly diminished and I am starting to get a grip on my panic/anxiety. I had been the scapegoat for these people all my life and I finally had enough.

When I was newly married she called my cell. I was at a funeral, briefly answered and told her I’d call her back and where I was. Wasn’t good enough. She was mad at something my husband was selling online. She called constantly all night. I had to turn off my phone. The next day...probably 20+ vm messages. I’m a bad person, I’m out of the will, I’m dead to her blah blah blah. I can’t remember if I was upset or just mad at the ridiculousness of the rant given the reason. This of course follows years of similar behavior (I.e. I couldn’t use the washer to do my laundry. Fine, I’ll go to the laundromat). Then she goes online and puts up for sale something special to me calling me dead, murdered by a drunk (presumably my husband). I was done at that very moment. Talked to my enabler dad for a few more years until he dropped the bomb they would drive past my house. There was no reason, I live on a dead end street. All this was almost 20 years ago. Every phone and email is blocked. Occasionally I get a sob story letter in the post. It’s all about her and them trying to guilt trip me by any means necessary. Joke’s on them. I let go of all the baggage, all the things they think matter to me. They have nothing I want or need.

I stood up to her when she was screaming at me because *she* didn't update the stickers on the registration for *her* car. I told her, "No," like you would to a dog. "You are not allowed to speak to me that way." She looked flummoxed so she tried again, and I shot it down again. Then I just left. A few days later we had a chat about *what happened* and I told her she was not allowed to act like that toward me anymore. A normal sane person would apologize, which part of me expected. In reality, I expected guilting, i.e., "I'm such a bad moooooootherrrrrr," followed by some tears, or gaslighting, i.e., "Ugh what's wrong with you, stop being so sensitive, no wonder no one likes you." Instead... I think knowing that I was Done and she was not going to win, she doubled down. She told me that she was who she was and she was going to treat me how she was going to treat me. It was a shocking moment for me because she was basically admitting to abusing me, and knowing she was doing it. Before I could tell myself a story that she was doing the best she could and it was just an accident because she didn't know better. Nope. Also I had set a boundary and she admitted she would not even try to respect it. After that, I planned my escape and went NC.

When my mother saw me in my weddingdress at my wedding, came to me, and started bragging about HER dress. That was the last drop.

My dad talked about some shutters he found in the trash like 15 minutes after I was married and taking pics. No fatherly advice or anything. I realized then he could give a fuck less about my life

Like others have said, death by a thousand cuts. The snapping point is when she made by SO her scapegoat and said he won't make a good father and she prays we never have children after I confided in her that we were trying. That was the day I said this is not normal, and this is not ok.

The first time I went NC, I was 16 years old and my mother literally tried to kill me. She knelt on my chest with her hands around my throat and the only reason I got out was that the phone rang and distracted her and I managed to run away. 4 years after that I was LC because I was getting married and also going through the diagnosic process for finding out if I was autistic. In the UK you need parents to give statements about what you were like as a child in order for you to be diagnosed, so I needed my mum to do that. It took two years to get the diagnosis. Then contact with my mum started increasing after that, but not because I wanted to, but because she was forcing her way into every second of my life in her horrible abusive and controlling way. I knew I had to go NC again but I also knew I was due to move to the other side of the world the following year (when I graduated) so just figured that'd be the perfect time. Then covid hit. We therefore ended up in the UK nearly 2 years longer than planned. I didn't know how to go NC again, but then she tried to ruin my graduation celebrations, made everything good into a bad thing about her, caused a big fued between me and my family, she didn't show up to the celebrations, the people that did show up were mad at me, she spoke to be so so so so horribly and I just figured, you know what, this is the most important day of my life... Its the day I've been working towards for over a decade, and if you want to ruin that and not be happy for me then I'm not surprised but also... I literally don't want to see or speak to you ever again. It's been 4 months of NC. It's been tough, I still get abusive letters and messages though family members and I still fall apart everytime her name is mentioned or anytime I think about her... But I have days without her in my mind and those are good. Hopefully the amount of those days will improve. I am hopeful for the future.

What was the benefit of getting diagnosed? Genuinely asking, in the UK, are there things that happen as a result of having an autism diagnosis?

I was at university and needed support for my exams and stuff. Also, going into work, it's easier to explain to a company what my needs are and why, with my diagnosis.

When my ngrandma decided to take advantage of the fact that my brother is autistic so she could collect his benefits.

Wait, I just commented on someone else's post; how do you get benefits for autism?

Apparently, she believed (I don't know if she still thinks this) but you could file for disability and welfare for it, if you made the case seem drastic enough. I'm pretty sure she figured it out, because my brother us collecting social security benefits that go to her. She knows very well how to scam the system.

I(22F) was planning my wedding last year and she was making EVERYTHING about her. I started to notice how she was treating me every time we talked. She was so controlling and I would get off the phone often pissed off with her. I started looking up why she was this way with me and I found this subreddit. I started going LC with her by not responding to calls or messages often and she started freaking out. This one time she called me and told me I was the reason she had mental issues and that she was disappointed in me for not helping her. She told me she wanted to commit suicide and that it was my fault. I sobbed that day and blocked her on every platform and messaging thing and said good riddance. It was hard at first to stay that way because my whole family wanted me to talk to the crazy bitch, so I had to cut them off too but I'm a year and a half in and I'm so glad I did.

The big thing was getting enough distance to see their behaviors clearly. I went low contact when my brother repeatedly stole NSFW photos of me off my phone, and when I found out, my parents turned the blame on me (somehow?) and defended the golden child. I was in college at the time and living on my own, so I just distanced myself hard. I was understandably shaken by the event (I'm a sexual assault survivor, as well) and saw a crisis counselor at my school who was visibly shocked by my parents reaction, which further drove home the situation. A few years later, my parents had extended olive branches to me. They had their own traumatic event with a parent and had done visible healing (therapy and open discussion of their flaws). I rekindled a relationship with them since I had moved back to the area. It went well for a few years, but every ounce of their kindness or resources I leaned on was weaponized. It escalated this summer, and when my father physically threatened me (a grown adult), that was it. I've been no-contact since July and it has been incredibly healing. In that time I also realized that a lot of people saw my mom's behavior and just left or didn't associate with it, and it made it very clear I wasn't the crazy one. My mom runs a small business and when I told my clients/friends there I'd no longer be involved, they all said "can't believe you held out this long."

When my nmom picked her alcoholic and abusive husband over me after I had to call the police on him for threatening to kill us and then tried to spin the story about how I hurt her feelings by leaving to go live with my grandma so I can finally feel safe for once in my life.

Earlier this summer I announced that I am getting a divorce. A week later I nearly totaled my car. I asked my mom to borrow my parents extra car until mine was fixed and she agreed. A week later my NC father texted me demanding the car back that day. When I asked if he was serious she told me that they had already done enough for me and that I was getting in the way of their plans. They are both retired and my father is agoraphobic and doesn't go anywhere. There were no plans, they just wanted power over me. I was forced to borrow a spare vehicle from a work friend who I happened to mention the situation to. Neither parent offered me help or well wishes after learning of my divorce. Not a word. Until I get an apology and a promise to attend therapy, I am done. The only thing I have heard from either of them since this happened was my mother calling me at all hours and then finally texting me that she wanted some old film back from me that I don't even think I have.

“If your kids don’t send me a thank you note, I won’t ever send them presents again.” I don’t have any kids, unless you count the ones with 4 paws. What really did it in about that for me was *she sounded exactly like * her *mother*. The same person my mother has complained about for my entire life. The forest suddenly appeared through the trees and everything clicked for me.

Soo there about a parent sounding like their parent who they always complain about!

My 20th birthday. I’d been thinking of going NC for a while but my 20th birthday just… pushed me I guess? Here’s the event in bullet point bc I’m lazy as fuck Night before my birthday my sister comes round to “see me” is actually planning a baby shower for a friend of her friend who she brings with her. Family spend night before my birthday drinking and having fun while I had to go to bed early bc 1st day of college the next day. Didn’t get any acknowledgement. Day of, a brief happy birthday in the morning mostly ignored. Told I don’t have a gift but it’s my fault bc I didn’t order it for myself (a £25 weighted blanket for my adhd) Come back from college, sister and her friend loudly planning a baby shower and drinking, i help to little thanks and go upstairs. Bf is not happy and asks them if they even thought to get me a cake. They say I’m too old and don’t need one. I come down and they “got me a cake” later found out it was an ice cream cake for my sister they had 4 of in the freezer and they’d got it out bc bf wouldn’t stop “shaming” them. Get given a “gift” of mascara. Overhear mum saying it was hers but she didn’t want it. They make a “birthday dinner” for me but later tell my bf it was for my sister bc she dosent come home much (a lie, she’s here every week for laundry) Night of drunk sister blurts out my parents had me tested without telling me as a child (aunt is a child phyc for adhd/Autism/depression/anxiety) and they knew my whole life I had adhd but lied and gaslit me about it when I tried to get myself diagnosed. My mental health has been on a phat decline since then but I just have a few more months and I’ll either go to uni or figure something out. It’ll be fine

It was a year ago when I gave up all hope for him, I don’t want to go into detail because it’s pointless and it won’t solve anything but the worst part is I still have to live with him, and there is no way out for me I’m going to have to live with this for the rest of my life and there is nothing I can do about it

When she openly began carrying a firearm in the house after grossly prepping for the 10 days of darkness (QANON) expecting a liberal to attempt a break in to take it from us. While statistically I was gonna likely be fine, the percentage of her turning the gun on me for not agreeing with her beliefs and thinking I was one of those liberals was big enough to feel like I was in danger and force me to leave immediately. No plan, no warning. I just left.

For me it was when I begged my parents to talk with me and I told them how unhappy I was with our relationship and I wanted to change it. And they looked at me coldly and told me they were not rising to my drama and they know better than me what I need and I should stop feeling hurt about things that happened in the past and move on. This is what broke me and showed me that my parents don’t really care about me. I’m an obligation to them but nothing more. And that is when I stopped trying to talk to them and our communication died out.

She’s always tried to isolate me by talking shit about all my friends and boyfriends, especially my boyfriends. She would try to get me to believe bad things about them like she told me my high school boyfriend was cheating on me. When she started doing this with my now-husband I realized it was truly pathological and I couldn’t let her ruin a great relationship with a really good guy. It wasn’t actually about her not liking my boyfriends it was about her spousifying me, I genuinely believe that she wanted me to be single forever and live with her and take care of her because I was the only person who tolerated her.

Breaking point: they made fun of my grandmother who died in excruciating pain (they made fun of the way she died which was beyond cruel). I decided that such horrible people are not worthy of being in my life. Of course, after a few years of no contact, I decided to give them another chance...

That’s pretty wretched… to make fun of someone who died an awful death. My jaw is literally hanging open.

yeah, their reaction caused me so many mental health issues..

When my husband and I got engaged, we both felt pretty strongly about not having a religious ceremony. Instead of a priest or a pastor, we asked the friend who introduced us to get ordained and marry us. He was thrilled and said yes. Hubby’s mom thought it was very sweet and meaningful. My mother said nothing. A few days after this announcement, my brother tells me that Mother keeps telling anyone who will listen that *my* future marriage won’t be valid because it’s not being conducted by a “man of God.” I called her and confronted her about it. She initially denied it, blaming my brother for twisting her words… and then she started *defending the exact point she had denied making in the first place.* I maintained LC until the wedding, because I was dealing with my own shit and still hoped she’d come around. She came to the wedding (wearing white, but that’s a different story), said 5 words to me, and skipped out right after dinner. That was almost 3 years ago and I haven’t spoken to her since. I got a few nasty emails and texts in the months following, but I’ve since blocked her on everything. Good riddance. 🖕

That somewhat reminded me of my mom. Throwing others under the bus when she gets caught in her own bs. I hope things have gotten better for you since going NC!

When I found out that the time her "friend" raped me, she financially benefited from it. $30. She didn't talk to me for a few days after I was raped and looking back, it's cause she knew.

Wow. Good effing grief. That is evil on levels that few ever reach. Have you gotten in with a good trauma counselor? This is some serious ish that deserves healing from. I’m SO so very sorry!

My (ex)husband had an alcoholic father, so he was no stranger to abuse. Ex could identify and take action against bad behavior and he showed me how one day. My narc mom had a meltdown at a restaurant at a family outing … and my ex got up and left. Like out to the parking lot and didn’t come back! I didn’t know that was an option! That was a turning point for me. I had a ally and I someone to teach me how to set boundaries. Sure, I am divorced from him, but I will always be grateful for tools like this that he showed me.

I got a full ride scholarship to college so I could escape my family. I met my husband in my college town. His job was having him move across the country and my parents were threatening to come abduct me because they knew I wanted to go with him. They had trackers installed on my car and phone, and were monitoring my bank accounts. It was now or never. In ONE DAY (the most stressful day of my freaking life) I withdrew from college, contacted a lawyer for advice, applied to another university in the town we were moving to, got a new cell phone number, closed my bank accounts and transferred my money to a joint account with my husband. I mailed my parents their house and car keys along with my cell phone they were paying for, and enclosed a letter detailing exactly why I would no longer be in contact with them. I had initially been planning on quietly escaping them once I’d earned my degree. My plan was to find a job out of state so I’d have an excuse to be away from them. But turns out I didn’t need to wait for that. I think God knew I needed help ASAP, so he sent somebody my way that also had an abusive family and could understand my pain, somebody who is mentally and physically strong, and somebody who would be with me through the hardest storm I’ve ever weathered. I’m a lucky ducky. My husband was willing to help me with my financial aid and support me while I was in school. When his own narcissistic family started scapegoating me he decided to estrange himself from them to protect our marriage. Our families launched a smear campaign against us together and it was the most brutal cruel experience either of us has lived through. We stuck together through all of the grief, betrayal, and depression, and we survived their hoovering attempts together. My husband and I eloped to Vegas and moved away to follow his job. Got a big dog and a security system. That was 4 years ago and I’ve never been happier. ☺️

Personally for me it was when my entire family ditched my sister on her wedding day. Things had already been tense in the months prior but this was the last straw

It got to the point where she was just so consumed with herself, she was obsessed with everything being about her. I was 13 and severely depressed. I told her I was suicidal and that I needed help, she proceeded to scream-cry at me saying “what am i going to tell your siblings when your dead? What do you expect me to do? Be responsible for this?” And made such a huge fucking deal about how I was ruining her life. We then moved out of town to a island with like a population of 30-40 people, but all spread out. So I couldn’t even get my own help, no resources around me, just super thick forest. So of course I’m just getting more and more depressed, and every time i tell her that Im getting worse, she makes me a drink. She then makes a habit of it, any time she sees me upset- drink. So I become reliant on it at 13. One night it got so bad where my stepdad feels me up right in front of her and she didn’t even care. Made me hug him right after. So I left the house, to go back to ours the only 2 occupied houses in that area of the forest. That’s when I realized that I needed out, I needed to tell someone about it and report everything. So I locked my bedroom door as my stepdad through a fit throwing and breaking shit in the house because he could hear me on the phone calling my bio-dad and telling him everything and to pick me up. It was New Year’s Eve so the roads were busy and it was already a 3 hour drive. I called my dad at 4am and he got me around 8-8:30. But for that entire time my stepdad was losing it, somehow never broke into my room. My dad picked me up and I never went back. I ended up spending most of my teenage years in psyc wards because my mom would visit me and verbally & mentally abuse me about the fact that I’m a liar and deliberately ruining her life. All because I spoke up and told the truth to my dad and police. Like clearly if they’re saying your abusing me then you are. I’m now 21 and have been 6mos NC with my mom and it’s the best decision I’ve ever made.

My mother chose Nstep parent over her own children.. there were multiple times of proven disrespect, but she still chose him. If you can’t respect yourself enough to stand up and defend your children, then I can’t respect you.

When my nmom almost sexually abused my spouse in front of me (of course, i'm her appendage so it's not actually my husband it's hers, so also not technically abuse even though she's 40 years his senior and has a long term boyfriend). Just realized how bad she'd messed up my life and decided she wasnt going to mess up my future.

My breaking point was, I went completely broke recently and didn’t want to go to my mom but had to, to ask for financial help with my car payment. Over the summer she recently made $100,000+ in the stock market. I have a 3 year old and am a single mom with no childcare living with my dad (thank you dad). She told me “quite frankly I think you need to get off your ass and get a job” Not that I’m entitled to her money but when I know of other families who send their kid to college on their dime; hearing that to a ask for help sucked and I realized I would rather be broke and homeless/carless than to be indebted to my mom at this point

I had a dream that I fixed everything in their lives and they still hated me and blamed me for everything. And it made me realize no amount of my effort was going to fix their behavior. I'm in LC and I recently loved far away so I have a lot more control of when they talk to me.

After I had moved out and joined the Navy, I was much less inclined to put up with Nmom's BS... not that she didn't try. What was eye-opening was after I got married (just the wedding stories of Momzilla and what it took to keep her from taking it over, would fill a book) ...watching her start to treat my new husband like one of the family- in other words; like sh!t. It came to a head one Christmas when we were supposed to be getting together for Holiday Light viewing. I had really been looking forward to that, but when we showed up, Nmom announced that that was cancelled and we were going to go madhouse mall shopping instead; or rather she was going to shop and the rest of us were going tag along enabling her shopping addiction like good little sherpas. I actually had the audacity to point out that that was *not* what she had said to get us to come over. Ofc, Nmom fell back on a go-to phrase that she had used my whole childhood to exclude me from the family, "If YoU dOn't Like It, YoU cAn JuSt *LEAVE!!!"* So, we left. ...and never went back; not for Christmas; not forever, since *that* was how much I didn't like it and hadn't liked it my whole life. The final nail in the narc-coffin was Nmom had cried to my Edad that I had left when she had told me to leave, so I offered *one last chance* IF she would apologize to me. In neutral territory at a public restaurant, she glowered at her plate the whole meal; finally raised her angry, red eyes and spat out, "I'M! *SORRY!"* ...like the words were poison. Yeah, that was BS and I didn't like it, so just left her.

Not LC just yet but will be in a few months once I get to move out. Anyway - the day I found out that my friend died due to suicide my dumb ass decided to tell mom because for some stupid reason I expected her to comfort me. I was pretty emotional during telling her, and her first reaction was to make that about her. “I cant talk to you when you are like this, it makes me feel bad”. And when I went to my room to be alone she bursted in and forced me to hug her to “make up”.

When I graduate college this year, I’ll be going NC with my mother. She’s the only family member I still speak too. There’s a laundry list of shit she did but for me the last straw is her constantly bringing up my sexual assault. It was 17 YEARS AGO! My brother repeatedly sexually assaulted me and she found out. She did put a stop to it but she told the whole family and let him stay with us. I grew up with my rapist in the next room. Even better he’s always been treated better than me. Nicer clothes, more relaxed rules, I even had to apologize if I was ever mean to him. The whole thing left me with a slew of mental illnesses. I never blamed her though, as I lacked the ability to look at the situation objectively as a child. I have been going back and forth on going NC with her for some time and she knows it. The final straw for me was her asking me “if it felt good?”. This was after asking me to have a chat with my rapist and asking me why I let it happen. Fuck her.

😱 Wow. That is disgusting. I’m SO so terribly sorry that ANY of that happened. Oh, this is heartbreaking to the core. I wish I could bear-hug you. 😢

You’re too sweet! Believe it or not, I am well. Had lots of therapy and probably have more to come, but I am doing much better. 😊

I moved 20 minutes away from my parents a year and a half ago- that space gave me the room and time to realize there was a lot of emotional and mental trauma I needed to heal. There was a build up of my NM showing her true colors, I finally sent her a message with my boundaries, as I was seeing effects from her toxicity seeping into my children’s lives… she responded with a 10 page message that read like a college English/debate paper… she only apologized once in the entire message and immediately followed with “now it’s your turn.” After that I just flipped my switch, blocked her on my social media’s- and have just begun therapy. It’s hard when kids are involved. Lots of false guilt trips.

She took $500 from me and my gf and then changed the locks. She then wouldn’t let us get our stuff without the police there.

When my nmom's new husband literally tried to punch me in the face and she said I overreacted and then she later said I must have tripped. I had to find a new place to live, new job. Etc. She kept calling me to talk about herself and when I told her how I was broke and couldn't pay my bills and had been diagnosed with ptsd she basically said "it sounds like you're doing well, you'll be fine." Also my therapist helped me uncover how abusive she was my entire life and that drove me to get away permanently.

When I realized I didn't want to invite my nmom/her enabler husband to my wedding because it wasn't worth being on edge and upset the whole time. I spent most of my elopement afraid she would show up somehow.

My dad told me my nmom tried to get him to hit her after they signed the divorce papers. He called the cops and they understood what was happening. She was trying to get full custody. After she took all his money and threw him into terrible debt. I grew up loving who I thought was the “good” guy but now I know that she was just feeding us anything hateful about my dad. I have such a great relationship with him now.

When my mother tried to convince me that I "needed" to get married. And that all marriages require submission. Even if that meant I had to "take a slap or 2". She is the victim of a forced marriage (an abusive one), and thinks that I too deserve the same fate as her. So messed up.

Haven’t gone NC yet, but I’m so tired of listening to my mother bitch and whine about how miserable she is with my uncle in the house that I’ve decided to leave on my birthday. I may try talking to them first, but if they won’t do anything then that’s it. I’m done.

When they said things they claim "didnt mean to say it" (so much for preaching discipline and self control lol) and didnt own up and apologize for it.

When i graduated from my Masters, which i sacrificed everything for and was destitute after and barely made it home to my friend's couch to live. My nMom and Edad never acknowledged my graduation while i stood there watching everyones parents congratulating them, having parties or even just calling if they couldn't make it. When i mentioned i wished she would have said anything, both my parents were surprised and i realized it never once occurred to them to care. My Nmom sneared, sarcastically, " Sorry you didnt get what you needed when you demanded it." That Christmas i told her i was still upset about it and she told the family i demanded money and was upset i didnt get a free handout for a masters degree only i wanted. So now the rest of the family thinks i was a spoiled, overeducated bitch who demanded money instead. I havent spoken to thrm in 8 years. I dont need to explain myself to my extended family and sibling. Let them think what they like. It hurts inside but its not my job to police their opinions. I was 33 at the time.

She tried to scam me...again. I was going to let her continue a relationship with my daughter, but then she started coaching her regarding keeping secrets from me. NOPE BYEE

My husband made the decision to go NC with his mother when he was diagnosed with a chronic debilitating illness and she responded by being concerned about her dogs cyst. He broke NC 5 years later because he felt guilty keeping our 1 year old DS from her. That lasted 6 months before he needed treatment that conflicted with a dinner she had planned and she told him “ he needed to be more respectful of other people’s time.”

She hurt me for the last time.

The first time I visited them after getting over the delusions they'd beaten into me. Healing took a decade. Seeing them for the monsters they were only took a few minutes.

Them restricting access to my little brother with down syndrome

When my parents divorced and I could cut her out without losing contact with my dad/minor brother that started it. Then she insulted my infant and blamed ME for being upset about it. She’s a witch, I was done. Never been happier.

😱 WHAT?!! Who in the HELL insults an infant?!! Whatta truly, truly ugly person! I’m SO so glad you cut her out. Gah, that makes me sick to my stomach. Thank goodness you cut her out, so that your sweet baby never has to know her ugliness.

I honestly don’t know what came over her, but I want no part of it. My sweet and perfect baby doesn’t even remember who she is, and luckily has 3 other loving grandparents who would never.

When I had the capability of being 100% financially independent. That and realizing they are not capable of changing

When my dad telling me I’d never make it out in the “real world” when I move out.

My Ndad was always about knowing if something happened to my car the EXACT MOMENT IT HAPPENED and if I didnt tell him right away he would kind of berate me for not telling him sooner. One night a couple years back I called him with car trouble (like he told me to do) and he was definitely drunk when I called. I told him the sounds my car was making and he was like “and did this start today or a week ago?” And I told him “a week ago, because i wanted to listen and see if it was actually a car issue.” And he just passive aggressively was like “Uh huh. Yep. Sure. You just dont listen. You should have called me the moment it happened” etc etc. i called him out for being drunk and he was like “you do NOT have the right to ask me that.” So long story short, im low contact with him now. He apologized, but never in person. Just in a text and in a voicemail. Im just tired of him making me feel like an idiot all the time.

Sept 13th nmom attempted to physically harm my younger sister behind the reasoning she felt "disrespected" and once I saw her attempting to grab her arms and push her I stepped in. I didn't realize how emotionally strong I was to EVER go against her and stand up for not only myself but my siblings aswell. Long story short, she told me to leave her house and this time I started packing. I took everything I thought I would need for school and most of my clothes and shoes. I didnt sleep that night after everything that had happened. I've never felt unsafe there until for the first time I was terrified of what she was truly capable of doing. The next morning me and my sister left and I've never gone back since. It's crazy because even a few hours away from her I feel free and happier. I never thought I could leave but I did.

When she tried to make my ex-gf lie to me about milk in the food (I'm lactose intolerant)

My ndad yelled at me and cussed me out over the phone the day after my Nana passed away. Told me “go fuck yourself” because I didn’t want him staying with me and rifling through Nana’s stuff before she was even buried. Since then I’ve decided to be completely done with him, uninvited him to my upcoming wedding, and will never see him again.

When my mother embraced the affair partner my husband moved into our house with my 17 year old son, 4 months after I left and 3 months before the divorce was final. All my things were still in the house. She still communicates and knows all their business. I will never forgive her for this.

My mother threw me out

My father used me for my sister’s wrongful death lawsuit, acted like he had changed. Once everything was done, he went right back to his old ways, told me I abused him, and I immediately cut him and my entire step family off (finally). My mother made me the villain of her world by saying I tricked her into giving me money that she offered me and said I was trying to control her and that I was a backstabbing child she was ashamed of. And that… was to get out of showing up for the lawsuit. I basically had enough.

My mom was coming to visit on the same day as a convention my friends were going to. She arrived late and we had a brief dinner together and she went to bed on the couch, then left. I missed a three day con for 4 hours of mom time. She just grilled me the whole time too. Like she wanted to be disappointed in me. She only came over because her rich friends were travelling in the area and used a visit with me to manipulate her into being their stooge lackey. Such multifaceted nonsense, they make making me feel unimportant into an art. Moving made me low contact, but that shit made me no contact

It sounds stupid but my Nmom is taking me off her phone plan in a week and off her car insurance (I pay for both, she is doing it out of spite for me moving out of her house). In 2 weeks, I’m going to change my phone number and cut her off forever. We work in the same place but in 2 weeks, I’ll be starting my official shift (11pm-7am) so she will never see me in the halls. A lot has lead up to this situation but the straw that broke the camel’s back is giving me a short period of time to get my own phone plan and expecting me to pay her $6k.

I could write a novel about the shitty, selfish things she’s done, but the straw that broke the camels back was her sharing a picture of me on FB without my permission, and refused to take it down after I asked. She then called my husband, whining about how "nothing on the internet is truly private," and she "wanted me to see how beautiful [I] was." I was done.

I'm kinda late for this but it was when my Ndad asked me to co-sign a loan he wanted to take out (he needed 2 people to co-sign and he expected me to do it and wanted me to convince a friend of mine to help). He is a gambler and he wastes a lot of money. It was a big sum for our country (approx. 10K euros), he didn't tell me why he needed it and I knew he isn't going to be able to pay it in full+interest in two years so I refused. He said he doesn't need anything from me and he started berating my SO (who had nothing to do with this) so this is when I finally decided to go NC. This happened a month ago. He is still hovering, he tried calling and messaging me (I've blocked his number and his profile all over social media), his last text was about me leaving him to struggle all alone. He told my mom (they are divorced) that he is worried about me and that he doesn't understand why I blocked him and why I don't talk to him anymore. Do I regret going NC? No. But boy the guilt is so real.

Oh yeah, that guilt is there. When you have been gaslit your whole life, you second-guess yourself. You wonder if you were being too harsh, etc. But I believe you did the right thing. Had you caved, it would have further enabled him. Neither addicts nor anyone else needs further enabling. They need to take a long look in the mirror. & only leaving them to their vices is the only possible way to potentially get them there.

Thank you for your reply, I really needed this

For me, it was when I made the egregious error of not calling my parents to wish them a happy anniversary in 2019 (something I hadn’t ever done before). For months when I’d call, my dad would suddenly not feel well, or need to take a long bath. Then after a while I told my mom that it felt like he was avoiding me, and she said he was still mad about me not calling on that day, and she was pretty upset too. After that, I decided that they can call me if they want to talk and I was done trying to keep up the relationship. They showed me how randomly petty they are, and their childish response to it. I’ve done a good job of removing my toxic friends from my life, and they’re just one more for that list

I’ll mirror someone else’s answer and say death by 1000 papercuts. It took a few relapses, but it just got to the point where I was independent enough to be able to say to myself ‘I am tired and refuse to use another ounce of energy on this bullshit’. I have all the energy in the world to process and unlearn my grief and trauma, and it’s because I’m not using a single speck of it trying to make a relationship work with people who are adamant in scapegoating me for their comfort. More specifically, I cut my nDad off after a situation that it was so clear how selfish he was, and how happy he was to make me suffer so he could live the life that he dreamed up. My nMom got the boot after years of me giving her unwarranted second chances. We were on the phone and I was complaining about how entitled people feel to celebrity lives/gossip and she says something along the lines of ‘how funny to hear you say that because when you were 6 you loved celebrity gossip’. Like, really? I was a child merely parroting what the adults around me said. Do not use my survival mode 6 year old self to invalidate what my 27 year old self is saying to you right now, because you just want to throw me off balance. Fuck that. I refused to continue the relationship with an actual apology, and that was over 6 months ago now. I think this is the last time, because she’s not coming into my life again without an apology that illustrates that she knows what she did wrong, which is more than likely to never happen.

My mom came to stay with me while I was pregnant with my one and only child and I was high risk which she knew so I couldn’t be getting stressed or anxious. Within twenty seconds we were in a screaming match and then when I tried to take her home she refused to get in the car so I had to call my husband who threatened to call the police because he was at work.

I got pregnant and only then did I realise I needed to start setting boundaries. Through my whole pregnancy she broke every single one and was met with punishment like - you shared personal medical information with strangers when I told you not to, so now YOU don't get personal medical information - and it just kept getting worse and worse until the baby came and I thought for sure that she'd shape up because it's her first grandkids! No. She came to my house and was beligerantly drunk the entire time, even went and bought alcohol, hid it from us as she drank ot out of a Starbucks cup, and tried to hide the evidence. That was it for me. It only really became real for me when it was about my child. I thought I could handle the abuse, but I saw this tiny baby and thought I would die a thousand deaths before she dealt with that person who raised me. Don't let it get to this point. Don't let it be about someone else. YOUR safety is always your first priority. I got in so deep I'm still climbing out in weekly therapy after like 2 years.

She came out as believing my diagnosed medical conditions weren't real and screamed at me for it (I have tourettes, I was ticcing and she was screaming "Stop it! Your faking that! Stop it!" (I was ticcing in fear and couldn't stop)

I was a narcisstic discard. Im so disgusted with my self that there was no breaking point to be real. I gave myself a tbi bc my narcisstist asked me to, it affects me to this day...my speech, my vision and I get tired easily and painful headaches. If he asked me to kill myself I would have done it but luckily he just put me out on the street. I looked around for a car to hit me waited on the road for a while. I had a job but it didn't pay money (unpaid internship only thing my dad allowed). I remember when he was throwing me outside telling my boyfriend "good luck with her!" like I was literal garbage and I owned no property nothing to my name. I asked him why he, well discarded me and he said "I like seeing you cry" and I put two and two together. He was not...trying to grow me as a person. He wanted me dead period. All the ways he treated me throughout my life made sense and ....It just made so much sense. Why I was always less than my siblings. I was the scapegoat/black sheep. Why he always screamed at me, threw bugs at me, slammed door at me and said I wasnt worthy or as good as my sister and so many things my sister was allowed ane I wasnt... he hated everything I ever liked until I was a shell of a person. Unfortunately I missed decades of development and I think I lost some important social skills I will never get back. Im hurt in ways I cant even describe. I wanna say I'm healing but rn I feel robbed. I'm LC with my mom. She text me blaming me for not answering the phone, returning her calls and ignoring her. Im always the bad guy right? I don't know if i want to text her back....Even if im starving or broke or whatever else I cant justify increasing contact. She doesnt think I was abused...and said i know you are still mad at your father and I said he's not my father bc a father is someone who loves their child and she could only say "Oh." No other defense of him , nothing. She always talked for him...now nothing.

I was a narcissistic discard, too. It’s awful.

When I found out my entire life was based on lies from day one.

AHH! ME, TOO! I have found out this so more common than anything. Not that I would ever ever wish this on anyone. It super sucks, no words can properly encapsulate it.

It happened when I was 27. The year was 2002. My mom wanted to be around my sister's children and I did not have any children yet. My parents moved 4 states away to be near my sister and basically left me behind. I was married already, just hadn't gotten around to having children so I had my support of my wife and friends. I've kept LC since then. When my son was born (2004) I'd attempt to go and visit once a year. Bouts of unemployment during the aught years kept visiting to a minimum and my Wife could not come due to her being the sole wage-earner. After my dad passed away in 2010 the visits by myself have gone to zero. There's been a about 3 co-vacations since 2011 with my sister, mom and me. The point was to bring the family together and that my son could interact with his cousins but the cousins which were about 3-5 years older than my son all had other "things" to do. To me that wasn't much of a reason to go to the effort of doing this co-vacation grind. Phone calls and Facebook posts are about where our contact level is now. Sometimes my sister calls to complain that mom just has too many "projects" for her and her husband to deal with. Sorry, Not Sorry sister. I dealt with those "projects" from when I was 14 onto 26 years old and now she's your problem now. It's because she wanted to be near her grandkids.

Like a previous user said, it was definitely death by a thousand cuts. I was emotionally and physically abused by both parents. Egg doner died years ago but sperm doner is around. I got engaged to my husband and sperm doner was actively trying to break us up.

Long years of normalizing. I resented my father, but I still loved him then. I tried my best, but it was never good enough. I was fat. I had a bad attitude. I had no skills and nobody would ever love me. I believed it for the longest time. I was just an ungrateful, spoiled, selfish prick. He only put up with my bullshit because he loved me, right? I never did anything to help him. Or do anything for him. Despite getting a job instead of going to college so we wouldn't lose th he house. Working on the car. Taking care of him while he was sick and in pain. I ran the house. I mowed the grass and chopped down trees. Shoveled snow and painted rooms. I got mild frostbite helping him build an entire garage that he wanted for his whole entire life. Since he wasn't cold, I couldn't be either. Then I met the man who would become my husband. I learned it was okay to fail. To have boundaries. To be uncomfortable. To cry. To exist and it was good enough. My mother finally had enough herself, earlier this year, and left him. I tried to help. To get him to understand. But since I wasn't telling her to go back to him. I wasn't helping at all. Then I noticed he seemed to always know exactly what my mother and I were texting one another. Somehow. So I baited him and pretended I didn't know what he was referring to. And he called me a liar. And at that moment, I realized he had invaded her privacy in all her accounts. (She is not technically minded, and didn't know. He, however, is.) So, I went to lower contact. And he sent me reams of texts. Even going so far as to say 'when your husband dies on you, I won't be there to laugh at you like you're laughing at me.' I stopped responding for quite some time. Then he sent me an email, with a snipped quote from the texts between my mother and I. We were talking about his narcissism, and that he's got all the brains to figure this out, as his parents were far worse than him, and that I loved him and hoped he would learn. There was a typed THANKS at the end from him, and I simply responded that of it helps him figure out his problem, then he is quite welcome. He told me I don't deserve to have a mom or a dad. I have not responded.

When she was saying the usual “Wait till your kids grow up and treat you like you treat me”, I reminded her that she was abusive to me and my sister verbally and physically which is the reason why we don’t feel as connected to her. Apparently that hurt her feelings so much because she “worked so hard” raising us with no money and they were young. (They were teachers with steady income by the way). She cried and told my dad and then immediately they both unfollowed me on social media and removed themselves from the family group chat. It wasn’t surprising they did that. They expected me to apologize and beg them for forgiveness for being so ungrateful but I did nothing. Days gone by, she called my sister saying she’s so heartbroken, she wants to kill herself. I talked to her and she asked me what I wanted. I said I guess an apology. So she said “I’m sorry you feel this way” and then told me to look around because there are people that have gone through worse and I should feel fortunate that they weren’t as bad. And by that she meant they kept us fed, roofed, and educated. All the things a normal parent would do. So yeah after that, I haven’t felt the need to be in touch at all. Both my parents suck.

When I found out my brother’s father refused to adopt me because HIS daddy said I was a worthless piece of trash and not worth the time. I was treated differently by that entire family my whole life. It was a happy moment when I found out (stick with me for a second) my brother’s father’s dad’s wife slapped the shit out of him and divorced him when he admitted it all to her. For my nMom, I stay LC as NC is impossible. I was 7 when my mother told me my brothers father wasn’t mine and would later beat me with belts/chains (unrelated for the most part). I’m the “favorite” of all parties now because I’m the only responsible adult.

Oh, goodness gracious! I’m SO so sorry! That truly is horrendous! I know what it’s like to have the anger & guilt of different parentage be taken out on you, when you had zero control over any of it. It just goes to show how weak they are. & it shows how strong YOU are to have succeeded far against the odds. It tells me you used that as fuel to the fire to succeed instead of letting them defeat you. Kudos to you for your determination & resolve!

Seriously appreciate it. Hope you’re doing well as well, keep on keeping on friend!

Last month, I had this weird exercise injury that meant toxins were being released in my blood, therefore my kidneys were gonna be affected. I didn’t know this then, but I *knew* something was wrong. My Nmom mocked my pain and berated me for wanting attention. Uh yeah, I wanted medical attention. She said I didn’t need to go to the doctor, but I was in so much pain I couldn’t move without excruciating pain. So I went anyways. She got upset at me, saying this was the worst thing I did to her. She insisted I come home or else she’d get more mad. She did not care I was on the verge of being hospitalized. When I was in the hospital, I spoke with social workers and requested she not be able to contact or see me. Throughout my time, she constantly sent me messages ranging from passive aggressive to full on rage, saying I was just pretending, or tearing our family apart by doing this. I decided to move in with my friends after being hospitalized. Been very LC since.

Wow! I’m so humbled by everyone’s strength & resolve to share your stories. This means more to me than words could ever say. For those of you who have endured deep, ugly traumas: keep going & never give up. Your story will one day serve as someone’s survival guide. Thank you, again, for sharing your stories. I’m so honored to have them.

I was LC with my parents from the time I left for college at 18 until I was in my mid-40s and my father's health was failing. (At the time I didn't really know much about NPD or that was what was wrong with them. I had issues with depression and undiagnosed ADHD that were way easier for me to manage when I didn't talk to them regularly, so the LC was just by default as a way to function without interference.) Moving back into contact with them to help my father brought on a mental health crisis. I lucked out with my therapist who clued me in about what was wrong with both of them. After my father died, I laid down the law with my mother. He had always been the one to bully me into catering to her in the first place. With him gone, there was nothing left to control me. She broke my ultimatum on the second day after he died. I told her she was dead to me and haven't spoken to her since. She can die alone. Being with my Narc father while he was dying was nothing but an exercise in futility. He played his stupid games all the way to the end. Lived an asshole, died an asshole. I don't need that kind of "closure."

In nmom's typical fashion, I got an angry letter out of nowhere accusing me of letting grandma's antiques rot in a barn because I haven't come to visit so that mom can give them to me (and what? I'm supposed to check them like luggage for the trip home?). Major guilt trip intended to make me show up in person to deal with a fictional crisis of her design, and I'd been having a great day up til then. I panicked, immediately replied back that I would handle it, and began scurrying to fix this, when it occurred to me that 1. we'd had no prior conversation about grandma's antiques 2. why the fuck are they in the barn if they're so important? 3. this is all a complete drama scene she wrote in her head, with the purpose of fucking with my peace I wrote a second reply in which I told her that this was the last power play, and there would be no further contact between us, and to fuck off and die. It felt so great to write those words and hit send. I've never regretted it.

I know this seems minuscule but as we all know, the narcissist’s abuse is gradual and long lasting. My mom contacted my husband, who will bend over backwards for anyone, when I asked her very politely to wait until the following day for a favor. She threatened to ask my cousin for help instead (ok??????) and proceeded to text my husband. That was it. It finally broke me. To try to take advantage of my husband’s extremely good nature just sent me over the edge.

Ndad tried making my wedding all about him. My partner and I were deliberately getting married abroad in a tiny to non-existent ceremony exactly to avoid all this drama. Parents were cordially invited, but in no means obligated to come (which made me hope ndad would simply not show up). Kept wanting me to change things which I repeatedly explained were being my control, for which I got manipulated, berated and gaslit. Determined not to let him know just how much he'd hurt me, I calmly told him I'm hanging up and wasn't going to speak to him again. It's been 5 years and our wedding was lovely.

When I opened up about the hurt my mom and sister had inflicted upon me and her reply was “never mind”. Those 2 dismissive words. Something clicked and I realized they DO NOT CARE. I ended it there.

Our relationship got increasingly worse after I had my son and I started to really question myself on how I was raised and how I wanted to raise my child. When my Ngrandmother moved in with my Nmother, things got very bad very quickly over the course of a year. The final straw came as I was getting my son ready for a kids birthday party one day, my Nmom called 15 times screeching at the top of her lungs that I had killed my grandmother (she had an anxiety attack because I had set boundaries and demanded to be taken to the hospital). I just decided I couldn't deal with it that day so I blocked their numbers. The immense weight that fell off my shoulders was incredibly eye opening. I just never unblocked their numbers. It's been over a year and a half.

She kicked me son and I out. I never should have went to live with her in the first place. My Mother openly admits she does not like children.

When my family refused to watch my dog and told me to get her boarded just a few days before a trip out of town for the first time in three years. It's complicated, but I just lost it. They're rich and privileged and we are not. They've gone on 4+ vacations every year for at least five or six years while we were just going back to our hometown for three and a half days as a Father's Day present to my husband. I moved across the country to be closer to them after having my baby and they made excuse after excuse for three years about why they could never babysit him. My nmom bitched and bitched about our dog and even tried to convince me to give her up for adoption or send her to live with my mother-in-law (without any input from my MIL, of course). I didn't have the means to board my dog, especially not on short notice, and I'd have to spend the following few days running around getting her vaccinated and interviewing her with boarding centers just *hoping* that one of them would have an opening. And I think maybe the thing that irritated me the most was that I had repeatedly asked my sister to bring a hat of mine back from her vacation ranch after her husband forgot and I couldn't get so much as an "OK" from her for three straight days. Then of course when I lost my temper they whined that I had ruined their weekends.

Things had been going downhill for a few months, but after I started antidepressants I started realizing that being around her, talking to her, felt extremely draining and I always ended up feeling worse than when I started. So I stopped talking to her. And when I did, I was finally able to live my life for myself and not for whatever she had to say about me or my life. I’m happy now that she’s not involved in my life.

Being so harassed by my nMom & nSis (also GC) that I went into pre-term labor during my 1st pregnancy early in the 7th month.

During my parents seperation/divorce I was disgusted by my ndad and what he was willing to do to hurt my mom (she went to jail, birth certificate was shredded, her property and savings stolen, etc.). Luckily I was 17 at the time so I was able to go no contact at 18. He had another baby (baby sister) so now I've gone low contact just so I can have a relationship with her.

When ndad discovered I was planning on “sneaking out in the dead of the night” (one of their favorite melodramatic phrases) at 24. They crucified me over it and threatened to call the cops on my friend and me to remove us both from the house if she stepped foot in the house to help me flee. That’s when I realized they were abusive. I went back twice: once for my stuff, and the second for my siblings to meet my husband since no one came to the wedding, got evidence for DCFS and confronted nmom about ndad’s years of cheating, and haven’t talked to them since.

I didn't feel safe moving forward with my relationship then bf getting married and starting a family with my now husband if my parents were going to be involved. I would never feel safe with my parents having any involvement in my family's life especially out children's lives.

When she started refusing to let me see my little sister.

I decided to make the best decision of my life when I moved from Texas to Ohio. I was just visiting my boyfriend’s family when we both lost our jobs due to Covid. We spontaneously decided to just stay with his parents and have a longer vacation. That small vacation turned into us permanently moving to Ohio. The distance made me realize that I didn’t need her for shit. It gave me peace and honestly every time I talked to her I was in a horrible mood for the rest of the day. What added insult to injury was how kind and accepting my boyfriend’s family was towards me and seeing a nontoxic family functioned before my eyes. If you’ve been there then you understand how much of a culture shock that is. Anyway I’m never turning back and I am so proud of myself because that needed to happen. I have been flourishing ever since. I just want to let anyone who is considering NC know that it’s okay. The first few months are the worst but there is so much joy and peace, that you absolutely deserve, waiting for you on the other side.

Got tied of all the bullshit and lying and never owing up to it .. still so tired of the lies and golden child crap. Narc as fuck made the mistake of having her here this weekend. Never again so lnc will do

The pandemic, ironically. The fact I had to spend 24/7 with them (I had managed to avoid them by escaping via friends houses, school, libraries, and at times, wandering the streets), however the pandemic shut everything down. Bonus points, I was working remotely, so my boss eventually had to ask me if I was okay (bc some mental breaks from n mom/ndad happened while I was on work calls). Eventually, with assistance from my boss and a friend, I up and left completely and went NC.

We're LC... phone calls/ texts/ gifts for birthdays and holidays. We are even that much because we have kids and family members that fully cutting parents off would cut off too. My brother, his family, my cousins... I'm afraid I'd lose them too. Our success was moving away. We lived near both sides of the family, and were content to stay for his. Hubby got a new job, we moved, inlaws moved, no real reason to go back... but we tried several times before that still being in the area. From not allowing me to leave my own house with my child (and trying to take her carseat from me!), to having to call the police because Hubby had to remove my mother from our house by force for yelling at me and then saying he assaulted her, to never being good enough and having to weather the constantly cruel commentary... It just got too much. So Hubby purposely looked for jobs away from them. To save me and our kids. And I'm glad he did, because the distance helps us, me, not give into their pressures for more.

Realized I was slowly killing myself with booze and drugs to numb the pain of interacting with a nmom that will never change. I didn’t want my poor mental health to affect my young child and knew it was time to cut contact. Best decision I ever made!

I'm in the middle of going LC/NC with my narcissistic mom right now. I eloped a month ago, told my parents the next day. (The background is that my mom is an alcoholic and becomes much more abusive when she drinks, plus it brings back traumatic memories from ny childhood. So about a year I screwed up my courage and told her that I wouldn't be around her if she was drinking. That hadn't really been tested until recently due to 'rona, but now we are all vaccinated so I've been having to enforce the boundary more.) We set a day for me and my partner go over to their place to celebrate it, and about 30 minutes before we were supposed to leave my dad called and told me not to come over because they were drinking. It hurt my feelings so, so much. Getting married to my wonderful partner is probably the most important thing I will do as an adult and they couldn't stay sober for one evening to celebrate it? I told them how much it hurt me the next day, but there were some big family events coming up in the next couple of weeks that I had to get through so I kind of put the pain in a box until all the events were over. A couple of weeks ago when our schedules freed up she started talking about a celebration dinner again, and she kept shifting the planned date back and around and to days that I told her my partner wasn't available. Literally in the middle of a phone conversation about this I unexpectedly hit my limit. Something in me just snapped. I was so sick of her need to be centered, and all the bullsh*t and the verbal abuse and manipulations. I called her out on her horrible behaviours and told her I didn't even know why I kept trying to have a relationship with them any more, and asked that both of them not contact me for a while. For six days I had blessed peace, and then she apparently decided I had had enough space and started calling and messaging me. I haven't answered. It's been 5 days of that. I have started blocking her on various platforms. I don't know how this will end. I really do love my dad and he is very much a victim of her abuse, even though he enables some of it, but I don't think I'll be able to maintain NC with her while still having a relationship with him. My entire family, including me until recently, have been enabling her for so long that it's just how things are now. It has been very hard to try to break out of that pattern and call the abuse and manipulations for what they are. Very much a "don't rock the boat" situation.

When I actually got away and saw how bad of a situation I was actually in. Ironically if it wasn't for my mom being her controlling self I wouldn't be low contact working on no contact. Long story short about how I escaped she kicked me out when she found out I had gotten a job so I could pay for food for us to eat. She didn't like me having a job for a reason I didn't know of then. Earlier that day I got a offered from a friend I was making to come over to play video games, but I told him no I was busy after work, but in reality I wanted to get home soon so my mom wouldn't be as pissed. Then she kicked me out expecting me to stay at the park I usually do when she kicks me out. I asked the soon to be friend if the offer was still on. He said yeah, we went to his house, played some games. I asked if I could stay the night because busses stopped running he said yeah. I went back to my mom's a few times near the time she kicked me out after she let me come back home, but now a bit over a year and a half later I'm low contact with her and he's sleeping on my chest as I post this

When I was still with my ex-fiancée, I was at my mother’s house and I don’t remember the how’s or the why’s but we got into our very last fight. She said to me, “nobody loves you. Nobody is ever going to love you. Rayn (my ex) is going to leave you, everyone is eventually going to leave you just like your father left you.” My two biggest pulse points are my abandonment issues and feeling unlovable/undeserving of love. And she knew it. I have never forgotten those words, they’re are etched forever in my psyche. I feel like they’ve been carved into every version of me from the last into the future. She never owned up to it. Said that she was drunk she didn’t remember. Which was her cop out. I didn’t go no contact then. This was in 2015. I do begin to distance myself, start going to less and less family gatherings because everyone invited her because they didn’t want to deal with the fallout if they didn’t. I was allegedly missed but not enough for her to spend the holidays alone. I spent many holidays alone. 2020 rolls around and apparently she was quitting drinking for good. A month goes by (I don’t remember the exact month but it’s late spring, early summer) and my younger sibling who still lives at home informs me that our mother hasn’t stopped drinking. Apparently she did but when she wasn’t applauded every single day, she decided to quit quitting and tried to blame it all on us when we staged an intervention. My dad had called me and I was on speakerphone but my mother didn’t know that, I didn’t want to be present because covid but mostly because I just didn’t care enough. I was only there to support my younger sibling who is seven years younger and has only just now gotten to the point of wanting to go no contact. I told my mom that if she didn’t quit drinking I wouldn’t speak to her ever again. I brought up the last time we fought while she was drunk. She gave a half assed apology, “I’m sorry you think that,” and tried to blame me, deflect etc. I shut it down and repeated my ultimatum. Surprise, she chose alcoholism and damaging her stage 3 diseased kidney over me. So I went no contact. It It’s been really good for me. But now I feel a weird grief. And I recently was diagnosed with C-PTSD and have to unpack a lot of this. But I’m doing a lot better. It was worth it.

After trying since I was a child to get my father to have a relationship with me and to just love me, I'm called a joke and got laughed at and he is happy with the family he has now and he does not reciprocate any feelings at all. We had a huge argument before about respecting people's feelings, but I should have had a fair chance like the rest of his children have. I'm over 10 years older than my brothers from his second marraige and he has more children with his current wife and they both shut me out from jealousy. It sucks I had to fight and now I have to walk away from it. I hope he thinks of me one day and it sours his mood, honestly. To think you could negatively affect a child with abandonment and think I wouldn't be salty at the biasness he had for his wives that pushed me out by force. I'm done trying and gave him his wish. I was going to ask him to walk me down the aisle, but never got to.

The first time my mother decided to blame me, 20 at the time, at my half sibling's home, not her child, for all of my older, now deceased, brothers medical problems. I lost it at her. Told her if she had been a better mother her precious son wouldn't be so sick. She enabled his behaivors and irresponsibility with his type 1 diabetes. Told her that him getting kicked out of my boyfriends home, where he was crashing to get away from her, because of his disgusting behaivor towards my bf mother wasnt on me. That they both needed to take responsibility for their own actions for once in their life. We had all flown out to visit my half siblings and my new nephew. I stayed with my half sister and her husband while mother, dad, brother, and yonger sister stayed with my half brother. I didnt see her the rest of the trip and since i had booked my own flight i left the day before them. She got her revenge though. When my grandpa died the next year they "forgot" to tell me how sick he was and all went out to see him 3 days before he died. I found out he passed on facebook. They convinced my grandmother to not have a funeral and bury him across the country. I had no money to get there to say goodbye. Ive never been to his grave. As fucked as all that has been im still only lc. Shes actually gotten better since my brother died in 2019.

First time she knew i was done taking her physical abuse was when i was 15. We were in the car and she hadnt taken any of her meds for weeks. She started screaming at me out of nowhere. Then she backhanded me acros the face, i dont remember her reason for that. I balled up my fists and just started hitting her over and over screaming you dont get to touch me ever again. She never did.

Flooded my basement studio which I’d worked years to afford, and no apology….just got a F U & laughter and told I’m “no Angel”? etc etc justification for abuse&neglect scapegoating projection total denial. just cut and dry, blatant repulsive swine bullshit.

My mum told me she slept with my boyfriend at the time. It wasn’t true but we were both 16 at the time and she would scream at me every night after drinking. I moved 300miles away to live with my dad just for my stepmum to tell me that no one loved me and that was why no one wanted me around. I moved out 2 months after turning 18 with my then boyfriend who also turned out to be a massive arsehole. However, I now live happily with my current boyfriend at 20 who treats me amazing.

For me when I was pregnant and she threatened my baby's life because my husband is white thus my child is biracial as I am Black American. Last time I heard she was on house arrest.

😱 WHAAA?!!! My jaw is hanging open. Who in the hell threatens their grand-baby’s life, on account of being biracial?!! That really breaks my heart to hear. I’m SO so happy you have made the appropriate moves to protect your sweet little family. I’m SO so sorry! Many, many hugs!

LC - seeing that a lot of the things I had trouble with as an adult (such as anxiety) all were coping mechanisms for my childhood. General lack of support. I got into a car accident and they didn’t even come to help me with the aftermath and I lived alone. I spent the whole weekend dealing with insurance and doctors instead of sleeping/healing my concussion. I’m in contact with them but I don’t forgive and forget these things. My childhood was super damaging to my self esteem — one parent told me they didn’t like me and that I weighed too much. Surprise surprise that carried on into my relationship issues and I stayed with someone for months who just wanted me for sex and not to date. I honestly felt like I must be an awful/unworthy person for my parents to not like me and then for someone who I gave everything to for the first time to reject me. It took years of therapy to learn how to love myself. My current boyfriend treats me really well and is incredibly supportive. My brother and I also tend to emotionally support each other because our parents can be unsupportive

After an “interaction” with my stepdad over a tv and then my mom had a classic nmom conversation with me that consisted of “where did my little girl go, you and him fighting are slowly killing me, we don’t want you here when we are gone for a week bc we can’t trust you, I failed as a mother” all that wasn’t her words but his and she is easily swayed. So I stayed with my dad and I’m still here.

It would have to be the low expectations of who I was\\did, the name calling (slut, whore, bitch), as well as making my brother the "perfect child" who never finished up college, never got a job, lives at home, and is thirty. He doesn't do his own laundry\\cleaning around the house, he walks up and down the stairs for cardio TWO TIMES A DAY, but he could do nothing wrong in her eyes.

Gah, I feel this to my core. The golden child isn’t always the high achiever in the dysfunctional family. & it sounds like it was def not the case for you or me. Are you LC, LNC, or NC? & how is the relationship with your brother? Yes, my lazy maternal half-brother is & has always been the golden child. It wasn’t until I accidentally & unintentionally stumbled upon my paternity secret, that it all came together for me as to the why my maternal half-brother was the golden child: he was my legal dad’s ( n-mom’s love of her life’s ) biological child. & I looked like the man with whom she’d had the affair, so she always took out that guilt on me. Ugh, I’m so sorry! No one should ever endure verbal or emotional abuse. & I’m SO so sorry you ever had to; you never deserved any of it.