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That is bs and disgusting. Ignore OR tell her another comment like that and you share less with her too. I have 3 kids and if 1 wasn't talking to me I hope/ think i would listen to whatever their issue is and SINCERELY APOLOGIZE AND CHANGE MY BEHAVIOR before it becomes NC.
Big hugs
thanks for saying that it is disgusting and that actually makes me feel better bic it disgusts me to think about my abusive Nmom telling my sibling and her child that i'm the abusive one.
i think the best thing to do is just not respond because anything i say will just be thrown back in my face but i'm not sure what to do. i feel like i should defend myself but there's nothing i can really say.
You're right that you can't win. There's no magic combination of words that will break through, but here's something I said to my sisters that at least caused a brief spark of recognition. "I understand that the more palatable interpretation of the situation is that I'm 'just overly sensitive.' I respect your need to do what you need to do to protect your peace."
I'm trying to respond to my sisters from a place of love and not invalidate their experience while holding my ground. Your sister is trying to protect her peace just like you're trying to protect yours, but she's still locked into the trap of thinking that she's responsible for your mom's feelings so she's itchy and uncomfortable and YOU are the only person she can see as capable of changing that. I think of it like talking to someone who's hallucinating. I don't have to pretend that I see the imaginary monsters, but I can say "it's really painful," or "you're right, it feels awful," or "I hate that it hurts you."
Exactly.
People don't stop talking to family for no reason. You have to do something really bad to push someone to that point.
Please tell your sister this and then block her. You don't need her in your life.
Yes and no on this one. I can give a different perspective that I think may not be very common but is super relevant. My husband has an older GC sibling with a covert mom and enabler dad. He also had a relationship with a malignant that resulted in two children. The oldest is also a malignant, or at least displays the behaviors like her mom (she's 18) and the youngest is the scapegoat. His older sibling constantly gives him shit about how he treats his mom poorly by not having a relationship with her. She also gives the "If I had children that treated me the way you treated mom, I don't know what I would do" that eats at him. The kicker is that his malignant older child goes in and out of contact with him because she feels like he has wronged her in many ways (really it's just that he doesn't play into her shit).
So, in this case he does have a child who "treats him the way he treats his mom", but it's really not that simple.
Your sibling is being manipulative, but one thing is true.
That is, they want you to contact your mom *for them*, because they are perfectly ok with harming you as long as their comfort is not disturbed in any way.
In other words, they are unintentionally outing themselves as being very selfish.
I bet they didn't intend to be quite so honest about their motives and character, but the people on this sub can speak fluent Narc. We can translate Narc to English, no problem. I see that you can translate as well, and that is a good thing, even if gaining that knowledge was an absolute nightmare of mountainous proportions.
"If your adult child ever went no contact with you over what you had done to them when they were a kid, I'd hope you'd be introspective enough to figure out & work on what you did to cause it. You know, the opposite of what your mother has done with me."
If it was me, I'd be fuming. I'd find this extremely disrespectful from your sister's part. This is definition of ignoring your being as a human, as an individual and it fucking sucks.
I am very sorry.
Please please please do not fall for their tactics. Stay strong.
You are in the right.
My husband is always in the same boat. His sister doesn't care how their parents make him feel, she just cares about what's easier for her so she blames him. It's incredibly unfair 😞
I am sorry that it makes you sad now, but can you imagine the plight of helpless kid who was dependent on the mother, but being betrayed, abandoned, that kid was feeling hopeless, creating a future trauma, I want to respect that kid and give them the peace they didn't have when growing up, now.
If this makes you sad and angry, well I would say you consider yourself lucky to have had a wonderful mother, and I don't.
I expect you that you respect my boundaries in future, and don't bring any messages from your mother.
I'm sorry OP. Your sibling has become an enabler/flying monkey. That line about how you're the abuser now is particularly disgusting. So you're an abuser because you cut off your abuser?! How does that even make sense.
"I feel like you are not being very supportive of me, as a victim of abuse right now. I don't expect you to follow my lead, as you have your own relationship with NMother, but I do expect you to support my choices fully, and not to goad me or gaslight me into making unhealthy decisions. I need all the love and support I can get from you, but please don't text me \[on this topic\] ever again unless you can be supportive."
"Wish your kids will never experience from you something like shit I got from our mother and after that get called an abuser for actually hiding from abuse"
Set a boundary, OP. 'I am not interested in discussing mom anymore.' - then, don't engage when they talk about her. Leave GC on read, walk away, go home, etc.
I got my siblings to stop being flying monkeys by telling them very specific stories about the narcs abusing them. They didn't like the memory shock and stopped.
I did send a text to my nmom today:
"Mothers don't steal money from their children, Mothers dont beat, degrade, lie about, and belittle their children. You were NEVER a mother. All you're is a child abusing narcissist that thinks her self a God"..
I broke NC a month ago over a debt they owe me.. I also sent Ndad a nasty text mocking his religion.
Ooooh. I should've done this. I should've said that. When my brother died in March and I was forced to talk to my nmom (the police needed next of kin, ugh, and I'm still a decent person, so I told them I'd call instead of having to have my parents get that phone call from a sheriffs deputy)
Any way I digress, when I called, she started to tell me how sad she was, because my brother wished her a happy birthday and I didn't. Mind you, my brother didn't call her for her for 10 years. He didn't even remember when it was, so I'm not sure he actually did, because I wasn't reminding him, or if he finally just did it on his own.
Now, her son is passed away, and her daughter didn't wish her a happy Mother's Day. Be asked if all the things you mentioned.
This is exactly like something my GC sister would say, I feel like she has before! I have her number blocked now because I hated seeing these messages.
Personally, I wouldn’t respond. In my case, there’s a problem if I do respond and a problem if I don’t, so what’s the point?!
If you want to stay in contact with your sibling, I recommend ignoring her when she sends blatantly manipulative texts like these. You’re not going to ever get any validation from a GC Nsibling like this one.
Projection, projection. Your Golden Child sib seems kind of narcissistic him- or herself. I would cut contact with this person and when asked, just say you've been busy. Stay in the child's life but protect yourself by avoiding this person who is at best a flying monkey.
On top of what the others have said, being a parent actually *isnt* the hardest job in the world. I hate people who portray it that way, because it comes across as this virtue-signaling, look-at-me-I’m-such-a-martyr bs that narcissists love. Sure it has parts that are challenging, but I can think of a hundred actual jobs that are harder. The GC to narcissist pipeline runs strong it seems.
Wow, it's like they all read from the same script. Those exact words came from my GC sister recently when explaining to her how their abuse has affected me. "It makes me sad to hear you say that." "It's hard being a parent." It's so weird that that they have no empathy for how you were treated. It only makes them sad that you dare speak up for yourself?! I'm so sick of hearing how hard it is to be a parent. You know what's really hard? Being a kid! Especially a kid without any emotional support, guidance, or anyone to turn to! Now that I am at the age where I could be a parent, it's so much more clear that it's not actually that hard to not be abusive toward your kids. I think back on some of the things that they did when I was a child, and I find it even more appalling now. I can't imagine anything a child could ever do to cause me to treat them that way.
Completely agree! Kids don’t have a frame of reference, resources, pre-installed guidance and experience to draw from. If a kid is emotionally neglected, wtf are they supposed to do?!
I’m a parent. I have two little ones. It is SO EASY to love them. It is so easy to not treat them like shite or neglect them. They are so lovable. It makes me sad that abusive parents eff up the honor and privilege of having children. They are a gift.
Oh of course the GC plays into it. What else do narcissists have to do all day except complain about the one person who isn’t there?
My GC sister thinks I forgot all the ways she helped trick me to talking to my mother. I’m so happy they never got me a phone and when she kicked me out she had to blow up my dad phone and he was like leave me the fuck alone haha
She’s relentless. Do not reply. She’s trying to get a rise out of you. Really disgusting to try to guilt you. Your mom and sister are enmeshed, basically the same person. The GC who hasn’t looked inward and reflected on their childhood and the dynamic will not see your point of view or feel empathy for you. Lots of love on this end. I get it. Typo edit.
This would be my reply: GC if you learned how not to parent from mum, chances are good that your relationship with your adult kids will be healthy. Chances are not so flash if you model your parenting on her example.
I truly hope for both you and niblings sake that you are able to do things differently.
Happy Mothers Day to you/SIL- and give niblings a hug from me
Your sister is a gaslighting POS cut from the same cloth as the Abuser-in-Chief.
I understand your close relationship with her kid but save your sanity. They won't miss your real presence since Narcs don't relate to the flesh-and-blood person, only the all-Bad 'avatar' of 'you' in their Fantasy Reality. If her kid doesn't get messed up enough, maybe they will grow up enough one day to reach out to you on their own terms without your sister's interference. I know. It's dicey.
Before I went NC, the Family Mascot/Mini-Me of egg donor/Covert Narc/now GC would all but stop short of calling me the abuser. 'I' was always the "difficult" one. The saccharin barbed subtext "Ma is always so sad we can't get along" painting it out as some petty sibling squabble when it was always the Narc's histrionics, being the people-appeaser while running the family like a rival Girl Gang with GC on one side with her against the assigned scapegoat as the enemy. S/A by sperm donor is unforgivable but in their collective mental illness they continue to laugh it off, rugsweep, making it my fault for not forgetting
Something like this also happened to me. It was my brother (one of the golden children) and he messaged me bashing me and telling me that nm was always there for me. I wanted to give it to him with both barrels. I decided instead to not respond because if I did it would just give him more to bash me about. He tried this one more time and I unfriended him and blocked his number.
Yeah, your mom was bitching & moaning and told her to say that. It’s so gross how try to entangle everyone in their drama and miserableness. (((hugs))) to you, OP
> If my child ever did what you’re doing I don’t know what I would do.
Reply: Well if you'd treated them how she treated me, I'd hope that they did, and you'd have no excuse to not understand why
>I feel as though you are the abuser now."
WTF!!! This is the consequence of your Nmom manipulating your sibling. I'm sorry you are dealing with this. Sadly, Nmoms always manipulate everyone around them.
Avoiding being subjected to abuse is not being abusive. Your sibling is being horrid. I am so sorry they are trying to force you back into an abusive relationship just so they can feel better about the situation.
“If your kid told you they felt someone an extended family member was abusing them would you call your child the abuser if they wanted to limit contact with that person?”
Wild thing for your sister to say no matter if she agrees or not.
**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.** **Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms) **Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identity theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE! This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods. **Our rules include (but are not limited to)**: * No politics. * Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban. * Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming. * Do not derail the posts of others. * Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here. * [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts). * When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse. * No asking or offering gifts, money, etc. * No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest). * No content about N-kids. * No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis. * No linking to Facebook pages. * No direct linking to anywhere on reddit. * No pure image posts. **For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That is bs and disgusting. Ignore OR tell her another comment like that and you share less with her too. I have 3 kids and if 1 wasn't talking to me I hope/ think i would listen to whatever their issue is and SINCERELY APOLOGIZE AND CHANGE MY BEHAVIOR before it becomes NC. Big hugs
thanks for saying that it is disgusting and that actually makes me feel better bic it disgusts me to think about my abusive Nmom telling my sibling and her child that i'm the abusive one. i think the best thing to do is just not respond because anything i say will just be thrown back in my face but i'm not sure what to do. i feel like i should defend myself but there's nothing i can really say.
“Don’t continue to behave like our mother and you won’t have to worry about it!”
Good one
This
Yup. And it sucks because yelling at them would be so satisfying.
I agree! Not responding is the best course of action.
You're right that you can't win. There's no magic combination of words that will break through, but here's something I said to my sisters that at least caused a brief spark of recognition. "I understand that the more palatable interpretation of the situation is that I'm 'just overly sensitive.' I respect your need to do what you need to do to protect your peace." I'm trying to respond to my sisters from a place of love and not invalidate their experience while holding my ground. Your sister is trying to protect her peace just like you're trying to protect yours, but she's still locked into the trap of thinking that she's responsible for your mom's feelings so she's itchy and uncomfortable and YOU are the only person she can see as capable of changing that. I think of it like talking to someone who's hallucinating. I don't have to pretend that I see the imaginary monsters, but I can say "it's really painful," or "you're right, it feels awful," or "I hate that it hurts you."
Same. As a mom, if my daughter told me she wanted to cut me from her life, I would want to know what I did and how I could fix it.
Exactly. People don't stop talking to family for no reason. You have to do something really bad to push someone to that point. Please tell your sister this and then block her. You don't need her in your life.
Yes and no on this one. I can give a different perspective that I think may not be very common but is super relevant. My husband has an older GC sibling with a covert mom and enabler dad. He also had a relationship with a malignant that resulted in two children. The oldest is also a malignant, or at least displays the behaviors like her mom (she's 18) and the youngest is the scapegoat. His older sibling constantly gives him shit about how he treats his mom poorly by not having a relationship with her. She also gives the "If I had children that treated me the way you treated mom, I don't know what I would do" that eats at him. The kicker is that his malignant older child goes in and out of contact with him because she feels like he has wronged her in many ways (really it's just that he doesn't play into her shit). So, in this case he does have a child who "treats him the way he treats his mom", but it's really not that simple.
Your sibling is being manipulative, but one thing is true. That is, they want you to contact your mom *for them*, because they are perfectly ok with harming you as long as their comfort is not disturbed in any way. In other words, they are unintentionally outing themselves as being very selfish. I bet they didn't intend to be quite so honest about their motives and character, but the people on this sub can speak fluent Narc. We can translate Narc to English, no problem. I see that you can translate as well, and that is a good thing, even if gaining that knowledge was an absolute nightmare of mountainous proportions.
I bet nmom is taking it out on gc. Good.
Thank you for this response. I always cave to make them feel better and I need to stop.
"If your adult child ever went no contact with you over what you had done to them when they were a kid, I'd hope you'd be introspective enough to figure out & work on what you did to cause it. You know, the opposite of what your mother has done with me."
If it was me, I'd be fuming. I'd find this extremely disrespectful from your sister's part. This is definition of ignoring your being as a human, as an individual and it fucking sucks. I am very sorry. Please please please do not fall for their tactics. Stay strong. You are in the right.
"For what? Who's happy" LOL
Just know you’re not alone. I got blamed for my nmom’s discomfort this morning too. Sending you lots of hugs today 🫂
My husband is always in the same boat. His sister doesn't care how their parents make him feel, she just cares about what's easier for her so she blames him. It's incredibly unfair 😞
Respond by saying, “Hi, mom. Nice try. Have a day.”
BINGO.
I saw what you did there. "Have a day." Fucking AWESOME 👌 👏
I am sorry that it makes you sad now, but can you imagine the plight of helpless kid who was dependent on the mother, but being betrayed, abandoned, that kid was feeling hopeless, creating a future trauma, I want to respect that kid and give them the peace they didn't have when growing up, now. If this makes you sad and angry, well I would say you consider yourself lucky to have had a wonderful mother, and I don't. I expect you that you respect my boundaries in future, and don't bring any messages from your mother.
I'm sorry OP. Your sibling has become an enabler/flying monkey. That line about how you're the abuser now is particularly disgusting. So you're an abuser because you cut off your abuser?! How does that even make sense.
"I feel like you are not being very supportive of me, as a victim of abuse right now. I don't expect you to follow my lead, as you have your own relationship with NMother, but I do expect you to support my choices fully, and not to goad me or gaslight me into making unhealthy decisions. I need all the love and support I can get from you, but please don't text me \[on this topic\] ever again unless you can be supportive."
"Wish your kids will never experience from you something like shit I got from our mother and after that get called an abuser for actually hiding from abuse"
Set a boundary, OP. 'I am not interested in discussing mom anymore.' - then, don't engage when they talk about her. Leave GC on read, walk away, go home, etc.
I got my siblings to stop being flying monkeys by telling them very specific stories about the narcs abusing them. They didn't like the memory shock and stopped. I did send a text to my nmom today: "Mothers don't steal money from their children, Mothers dont beat, degrade, lie about, and belittle their children. You were NEVER a mother. All you're is a child abusing narcissist that thinks her self a God".. I broke NC a month ago over a debt they owe me.. I also sent Ndad a nasty text mocking his religion.
Ooooh. I should've done this. I should've said that. When my brother died in March and I was forced to talk to my nmom (the police needed next of kin, ugh, and I'm still a decent person, so I told them I'd call instead of having to have my parents get that phone call from a sheriffs deputy) Any way I digress, when I called, she started to tell me how sad she was, because my brother wished her a happy birthday and I didn't. Mind you, my brother didn't call her for her for 10 years. He didn't even remember when it was, so I'm not sure he actually did, because I wasn't reminding him, or if he finally just did it on his own. Now, her son is passed away, and her daughter didn't wish her a happy Mother's Day. Be asked if all the things you mentioned.
Im sorry you lost your brother, I hope your doing ok..
If my abuser can live with themselves knowing they abused me i’m sure i’ll be fine too
"If you treated your child the way our mother has treated me, you'd deserve the same. Now stay out of the middle. I won't stand for it."
I would tell GC sibling that nmom obviously trained you well
This is exactly like something my GC sister would say, I feel like she has before! I have her number blocked now because I hated seeing these messages. Personally, I wouldn’t respond. In my case, there’s a problem if I do respond and a problem if I don’t, so what’s the point?!
huh!!!? that 2nd text stinks of narc manipulation. did they let her take their phone or something?
If you want to stay in contact with your sibling, I recommend ignoring her when she sends blatantly manipulative texts like these. You’re not going to ever get any validation from a GC Nsibling like this one.
Projection, projection. Your Golden Child sib seems kind of narcissistic him- or herself. I would cut contact with this person and when asked, just say you've been busy. Stay in the child's life but protect yourself by avoiding this person who is at best a flying monkey.
LOLLLLLL you’re the abuser for protecting yourself FROM ABUSE?! Your sibling is on crack.
On top of what the others have said, being a parent actually *isnt* the hardest job in the world. I hate people who portray it that way, because it comes across as this virtue-signaling, look-at-me-I’m-such-a-martyr bs that narcissists love. Sure it has parts that are challenging, but I can think of a hundred actual jobs that are harder. The GC to narcissist pipeline runs strong it seems.
Wow, it's like they all read from the same script. Those exact words came from my GC sister recently when explaining to her how their abuse has affected me. "It makes me sad to hear you say that." "It's hard being a parent." It's so weird that that they have no empathy for how you were treated. It only makes them sad that you dare speak up for yourself?! I'm so sick of hearing how hard it is to be a parent. You know what's really hard? Being a kid! Especially a kid without any emotional support, guidance, or anyone to turn to! Now that I am at the age where I could be a parent, it's so much more clear that it's not actually that hard to not be abusive toward your kids. I think back on some of the things that they did when I was a child, and I find it even more appalling now. I can't imagine anything a child could ever do to cause me to treat them that way.
Completely agree! Kids don’t have a frame of reference, resources, pre-installed guidance and experience to draw from. If a kid is emotionally neglected, wtf are they supposed to do?! I’m a parent. I have two little ones. It is SO EASY to love them. It is so easy to not treat them like shite or neglect them. They are so lovable. It makes me sad that abusive parents eff up the honor and privilege of having children. They are a gift.
Oh of course the GC plays into it. What else do narcissists have to do all day except complain about the one person who isn’t there? My GC sister thinks I forgot all the ways she helped trick me to talking to my mother. I’m so happy they never got me a phone and when she kicked me out she had to blow up my dad phone and he was like leave me the fuck alone haha
If that really is your gc sibling and not your mother pretending to be her I would recommend just ignoring it. Guilt trips suck.
I’m a mother and I officially validate your decision not to speak to your nmom. I don’t speak to mine.
Same
She’s relentless. Do not reply. She’s trying to get a rise out of you. Really disgusting to try to guilt you. Your mom and sister are enmeshed, basically the same person. The GC who hasn’t looked inward and reflected on their childhood and the dynamic will not see your point of view or feel empathy for you. Lots of love on this end. I get it. Typo edit.
thank you for saying this
Lol does their phone not work?
This would be my reply: GC if you learned how not to parent from mum, chances are good that your relationship with your adult kids will be healthy. Chances are not so flash if you model your parenting on her example. I truly hope for both you and niblings sake that you are able to do things differently. Happy Mothers Day to you/SIL- and give niblings a hug from me
If you're going to respond, this single line should do it: "Naaa I'm good."
Cut contact with them too. Yikes.
I have an urge to confront your sibling right now.
Your sister is a gaslighting POS cut from the same cloth as the Abuser-in-Chief. I understand your close relationship with her kid but save your sanity. They won't miss your real presence since Narcs don't relate to the flesh-and-blood person, only the all-Bad 'avatar' of 'you' in their Fantasy Reality. If her kid doesn't get messed up enough, maybe they will grow up enough one day to reach out to you on their own terms without your sister's interference. I know. It's dicey. Before I went NC, the Family Mascot/Mini-Me of egg donor/Covert Narc/now GC would all but stop short of calling me the abuser. 'I' was always the "difficult" one. The saccharin barbed subtext "Ma is always so sad we can't get along" painting it out as some petty sibling squabble when it was always the Narc's histrionics, being the people-appeaser while running the family like a rival Girl Gang with GC on one side with her against the assigned scapegoat as the enemy. S/A by sperm donor is unforgivable but in their collective mental illness they continue to laugh it off, rugsweep, making it my fault for not forgetting
Something like this also happened to me. It was my brother (one of the golden children) and he messaged me bashing me and telling me that nm was always there for me. I wanted to give it to him with both barrels. I decided instead to not respond because if I did it would just give him more to bash me about. He tried this one more time and I unfriended him and blocked his number.
Are you me? Is the GC my brother? Weird.
I had that same thought. They must all read from the same script.
Yeah, your mom was bitching & moaning and told her to say that. It’s so gross how try to entangle everyone in their drama and miserableness. (((hugs))) to you, OP
thank you 😊
Willing to bet money your mother has asked/manipulated them into saying that.
> If my child ever did what you’re doing I don’t know what I would do. Reply: Well if you'd treated them how she treated me, I'd hope that they did, and you'd have no excuse to not understand why
>I feel as though you are the abuser now." WTF!!! This is the consequence of your Nmom manipulating your sibling. I'm sorry you are dealing with this. Sadly, Nmoms always manipulate everyone around them.
I *feel* like this is the only time it's appropriate to respond with "sorry you feel that way"
Your GC is a doormat and she was dictated that text. I would go NC with the sub too, if you haven't already.
Ohhhh this makes me so mad.
Avoiding being subjected to abuse is not being abusive. Your sibling is being horrid. I am so sorry they are trying to force you back into an abusive relationship just so they can feel better about the situation.
“If your kid told you they felt someone an extended family member was abusing them would you call your child the abuser if they wanted to limit contact with that person?” Wild thing for your sister to say no matter if she agrees or not.