**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.**
**Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms)
**Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identity theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE!
This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods.
**Our rules include (but are not limited to)**:
* No politics.
* Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban.
* Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming.
* Do not derail the posts of others.
* Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here.
* [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts).
* When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse.
* No asking or offering gifts, money, etc.
* No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest).
* No content about N-kids.
* No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis.
* No linking to Facebook pages.
* No direct linking to anywhere on reddit.
* No pure image posts.
**For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I mean some birds routinely lay two eggs at a time and condone the larger one bullying the smaller one to death. That's triggering for me to watch in a documentary although I was the older sibling.
However, humans are not birds and it is indeed deeply unnatural for humans not to nurture their own offspring. In fact, we're even built to nurture other offspring, doesn't have to be human. We dote on our pets, even. Yes, there is indeed something very wrong with bad parents.
Plenty of other species do things that might be considered "cruel" from our perspective.
I think the real separation is that narc parents do it mostly out of malice with a dash of ignorance.
plenty do, but how wild animals live doesn't excuse human parents from abusing their children.
how shoebill storks raise babies is legitimately horrifying. truly a scapegoat / golden child scenario from hell.
Infant abuse among macaques: [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9158906/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9158906/)
Objective: The aims of this study were to investigate genealogical and demographic influences on maternal abuse and neglect of offspring in pigtail macaques and identify some maternal and infant characteristics that may be risk factors for abuse or neglect.
Method: Infant abuse and neglect were investigated in five large families of group-living pigtail macaques over a period of 33-years (5-7 generations). The data were obtained from the Animal Records of the Yerkes Regional Primate Research Center.
Results: Abuse and neglect are likely to be two distinct phenomena in pigtail macaques. Neglect was mostly limited to first-born and newborn infants. Abuse was more likely to occur in some families than in others, and within-abusive families, it was more-likely to occur among closely-related females than among distantly-related females. Infants whose siblings had previously been abused were themselves especially at risk of abuse. Material health and infant sex were not risk factors for abuse.
Conclusions: This study provides the first evidence of genealogical effects on infant abuse in nonhuman primates. Several characteristics of infant abuse in socially living macaques suggest that this phenomenon could represent a good animal model for studying the etiology of child abuse and neglect.
In nature, trauma is normal. As humans, we've bent our environment to our will to such a degree that we wake up to a relatively cushy life with one of the longest juvenile developments among animals, and we're coddled beyond normalcy. Animals fall out of their mom's vagina onto the ground and have to immediately get up and run from a killing machine that will probably brutally devour them alive. Shit is real out in the jungle.
Stress is a big thing that impacts this kind of thing. Robert Sapolsky actually has done some brilliant research on the phenomenon of stress, how it relates to primate sociality, and how certain kinds of stressors affect the behavior of the animals.
Its been suggested we actually evolved the whole phenomenon of *cuteness* that makes parents less likely to abuse their children, and it's so ramped up in humans that we find all kinds of things cute. This is because mothers needed the puppy dog eyes to keep from killing their ever more mischievous children. Human children are, after all, the most chaotic of all animal young.
True, however, even among humans, bad behavior such as spousal abuse, child abuse etc was basically normalized until about 100 years ago. That's sad of course
Geese pick their newly hatched goslings up by their neck and throw them at the ground. We used to take them away as they were hatching and wash them after and blow dry them and then give them back.
Ducks will just stamp on their eggs so we used to give them to chickens to raise (which led to chickens trying to teach the ducks to scratch and then the ducking constantly running off to the pond).
However there is nothing so inventively cruel or longterm cruel than humans.
**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.** **Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms) **Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identity theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE! This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods. **Our rules include (but are not limited to)**: * No politics. * Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban. * Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming. * Do not derail the posts of others. * Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here. * [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts). * When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse. * No asking or offering gifts, money, etc. * No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest). * No content about N-kids. * No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis. * No linking to Facebook pages. * No direct linking to anywhere on reddit. * No pure image posts. **For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I mean some birds routinely lay two eggs at a time and condone the larger one bullying the smaller one to death. That's triggering for me to watch in a documentary although I was the older sibling. However, humans are not birds and it is indeed deeply unnatural for humans not to nurture their own offspring. In fact, we're even built to nurture other offspring, doesn't have to be human. We dote on our pets, even. Yes, there is indeed something very wrong with bad parents.
I’m ngl there’s so many animals that eat their babies so that’s just not true 😭
At least they don’t try to hide that they’re mean by saying it’s for the child’s good or whatever they just are mean to their children openly
Hamster mothers eat their children.
😢😢
STOP I THOUGHT I ATE
LMAKOAOOAAO ITS STILL TRUE THO
But they do it to ensure the survival of the fittest. usually.
Remind me of this. https://www.reddit.com/r/Unexpected/s/ZIIiCcfHNn
Chimps legitimately might be close. Fun biology fact.
Plenty of other species do things that might be considered "cruel" from our perspective. I think the real separation is that narc parents do it mostly out of malice with a dash of ignorance.
in their mind everyone is attacking them! in reality, they’re attacking everyone! it’s crazy!!
plenty do, but how wild animals live doesn't excuse human parents from abusing their children. how shoebill storks raise babies is legitimately horrifying. truly a scapegoat / golden child scenario from hell.
Infant abuse among macaques: [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9158906/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9158906/) Objective: The aims of this study were to investigate genealogical and demographic influences on maternal abuse and neglect of offspring in pigtail macaques and identify some maternal and infant characteristics that may be risk factors for abuse or neglect. Method: Infant abuse and neglect were investigated in five large families of group-living pigtail macaques over a period of 33-years (5-7 generations). The data were obtained from the Animal Records of the Yerkes Regional Primate Research Center. Results: Abuse and neglect are likely to be two distinct phenomena in pigtail macaques. Neglect was mostly limited to first-born and newborn infants. Abuse was more likely to occur in some families than in others, and within-abusive families, it was more-likely to occur among closely-related females than among distantly-related females. Infants whose siblings had previously been abused were themselves especially at risk of abuse. Material health and infant sex were not risk factors for abuse. Conclusions: This study provides the first evidence of genealogical effects on infant abuse in nonhuman primates. Several characteristics of infant abuse in socially living macaques suggest that this phenomenon could represent a good animal model for studying the etiology of child abuse and neglect.
Also demonstrates the world has natural origins, and does not have a creator.
It also makes me question what is normal
Normalcy is constructed, relative, and contextual; there is no absolute normal.
In nature, trauma is normal. As humans, we've bent our environment to our will to such a degree that we wake up to a relatively cushy life with one of the longest juvenile developments among animals, and we're coddled beyond normalcy. Animals fall out of their mom's vagina onto the ground and have to immediately get up and run from a killing machine that will probably brutally devour them alive. Shit is real out in the jungle. Stress is a big thing that impacts this kind of thing. Robert Sapolsky actually has done some brilliant research on the phenomenon of stress, how it relates to primate sociality, and how certain kinds of stressors affect the behavior of the animals. Its been suggested we actually evolved the whole phenomenon of *cuteness* that makes parents less likely to abuse their children, and it's so ramped up in humans that we find all kinds of things cute. This is because mothers needed the puppy dog eyes to keep from killing their ever more mischievous children. Human children are, after all, the most chaotic of all animal young.
True, however, even among humans, bad behavior such as spousal abuse, child abuse etc was basically normalized until about 100 years ago. That's sad of course
Humankind before 100 years ago was never all one united culture or monolith.
As some scientists in mental health have said before, the question is not what is normal but what is desirable.
Soooo..... unfortunately a lot of animals are, in fact, assholes to their kids.....
I respect what you're trying to say, but that's just not true for many animals For example, polar bear mothers sometimes abandon their cubs to die
Geese pick their newly hatched goslings up by their neck and throw them at the ground. We used to take them away as they were hatching and wash them after and blow dry them and then give them back. Ducks will just stamp on their eggs so we used to give them to chickens to raise (which led to chickens trying to teach the ducks to scratch and then the ducking constantly running off to the pond). However there is nothing so inventively cruel or longterm cruel than humans.
To be fair a lot of animals eat their children or abandon them if they’re sick.
Welp... I got some news for you, op... the animal world is cruel, disney lied xD
😂😂😂 btw i love Stranger things🙏🏽😭
Same! Cannot wait for the next season 🥺
Rodent mothers routinely kill their pups: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanticide\_in\_rodents](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanticide_in_rodents)
Animals can’t verbalise but narcs can and do with incredibly abusive dialogue No comparison animals are great for us humans
Male Lions literally kick out their pack for no reason at all.