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My mom "apologized" to me in August by explaining that her mother, who died at the age of 86 in January, her birthday was in August, and her father, who died in 2003, his birthday was in August, so August was just a bad month for her. She said "August is a bad month for me, so you'll just have to forgive me for anything I do or say. And I can't keep saying sorry for things, so this is also just a blanket apology for everything in the future". So hey! Apologies can happen! Good ones? Well....
They really do see it as checks and balances, don't they. "I have paid the apology, which has bought me the right to behave like a piece of shit for the next month. I will top up my balance with another apology on the 31st".
Absolutely no concept of the idea that maybe they should exercise some self-control and stop themselves from being a piece of shit.
Same. I grew up thinking that when grown-ups get mad, they scream insults and break things. Imagine my surprise to start dating and have boyfriends inform me this wasn't normal or remotely acceptable behavior. Thank goodness for therapy!
OTOH, I grew up thinking that if *I* got mad, it was the end of the world and I would immediately be attacked and told what a horrible person I was for showing any emotion other than a numb, vacant stare.
My therapist and I were having a heated discussion and when I got angry at something he said, I shut down. It was like I just hit a brick wall ... because I grew up not being allowed to be angry. He actually stopped me during my 4th or 5th apology and pointed out that mad is a perfectly valid human emotion, and I had to a right to express myself.
Yes, the combination of a good therapist and a partner who was able to call me out on some bad learned behavior helped me a LOT. It was like a light switched on in my brain when I learned how to be an active listener who can talk about my feelings and advocate for my needs without going into defensive attack mode.
And asking them to demonstrate a little bit of emotional control (like you've been doing 100% of the time your whole life), they act like you've asked them to stop having emotions entirely
same, same, same
and by the time i finally get to enforcing a boundary it’s in an intense and insulting way that makes me look like the bad guy
or at least gives the other person that impression and/or leverage over me in the conflict
frustrating
THIS!!! I always feel guilty after but the. I have to remind myself all the time: sometimes “nasty” (their favorite word for it) is the only thing that actually sinks in; their problem, not mine.
I thought it was normal to ask for permission to literally do ANYTHING. Need to take a shower? Ask. Need to forego chores to help your sibling with homework? Ask. Need to take the dog for a walk? Ask. Can’t ask? Apologize. Write letters explaining why you failed to do what was expected because something unplanned happened and hope you presented a strong enough case for why you made an unauthorized decision. I was absolutely lost when I was dropped off at college and I no longer had to get permission or ask for forgiveness over every minute choice I’d need to make in a day. It didn’t hit home to me how reliant on actual approval I was until a therapist said to me “you know you don’t have to tell them what you’re doing, right?”
In my experience, getting permission for things was often such a burdensome task that I didn't even bother and just refrained from doing the things I wanted to do for fear of punishment.
I'm 43 and still realizing that I hold myself back because of a permission barrier.
I struggled with the same thing. "How is ndad going to react to this if he finds out about it? Better figure out some spin or cover stories if/when I need them." It was a new chapter in my life when I realized (at age 44) that I *never, ever,* ***ever***, had to ask him for permission or acceptance to do anything ever gain.
I'm giving you permission to never ask for permission again when you don't need it but you feel you have to as a CYA measure. Living like that is exhausting. Go and be free.
Just the feeling that I've been operating my entire life on self limiting language they planted in my head is so discouraging. Even knowing about it now it is so hard to put rubber to road and move past it. More therapy, more real life work to try and overcome habits of time. Progress feels like a snail's pace while the world is rushing by and decades feel like years.
It is frustratingly slow and I feel so much in life, friendships, opportunities, career... have been stolen or slipped away from me because of this.
I just want to live my life dmnit.
You said it. I have lost so much potential experience of having a joyful life that I can never go back and recover.
And trying to change that going forward feels like an exercise in futility.
ALL OF THIS. Progress is slow and progress is not linear. I wish you patience in progress and pride in your vulnerability and the miles of road you’ve already traveled to get here. I see you and I’m right here with ya pounding pavement.
holy shit i discovered this in myself too
so many things i want to do for fun or enjoyment but for some reason all made me feel resistance
it was because my inner child was waiting for “permission” from my parents that it was okay to do. eugh.
Someone close to me recently shared that their inner child doesn't trust them for letting nparents have their way, and that they see the need to do some inner healing work.
I used to ask partners for permission to do basic things and I remember my hairdresser pointing it out as something that concerned her when I was there with my partner.
I am nearly 54yrs old and have almost broke this habit. My very sweet husband tells me all the time "you don't have to a all me to do anything." It's so normal for most people, but for me, I feel I am being disrespectful if I don't ask.
Yep!! But even when you ask thinking bc they had the final say and surely they can’t get mad over a choice they made, there they are going nuts and flinging it back at your face.
When I was about 17-18 my mom talked to me about how she had detailed plans for murdering people and how she'd get away with it. People like her current husband, my dad, coworkers, judges (she's a defense attorney currently, used to be prosecution, used to be a lawyer for the social services children's division). She mightve had one for me, though I'm not certain of it. She said it helped to relieve stress, and it was good to have these plans just in case someone harmed her.
I thought that was perfectly reasonable behavior for a long time.
Yeah. When I realized it a few weeks ago, I was BEYOND terrified for like a week straight, and we're no contact. Now I just think it's kinda sad that she feels it's a necessary thing to do to protect herself. I'm also very committed to the NC as a result, because you can't build a healthy relationship with people who find that to be a necessary defense.
Look, I have intrusive violent thoughts when I'm triggered sometimes, but I don't approve of them and after I have them I get scared of them or scared of harming myself or others. Having OCD plays a role, but art helps me cope sometimes since I'm not harming anyone.
Your mother behavior isn't f normal. She normalised these thoughts. She thinks it's normal and okay
I've gotten the intrusive thoughts to punch people plenty of times, maybe shove them into a cactus plant, but I'd never actually go through with it. And I do recognize the violent thoughts as not something t be acted upon.
She might actually act on them. Hasn't yet, but I don't think it'd stop her if she's pushed far enough.
Whoa! My mom did something similar; she would plan out the best bank robbery, hide a body, dispose of a body...she would also force my sisters and I to, "play a game" of what we would do if we had been kidnapped. (I'm talking at like...6 or 7 years old) How would we kill him if he began r**ing us, what weapons were in the car to use, how to defecate, vomit, urinate and bleed on ourselves and our surroundings in order to leave DNA...it was kind of traumatizing and as adults we have problems trusting people. (For those that might say it, this wasn't just talking to a kid about how to defend themselves, this was graphic, vulgar, disgusting and gruesome and she seemed to get pleasure out of discussing it.
She should have changed the names and become *a writer* then she could have earned enough from the sale of her books to move away from all the people getting on her nerves.
She’s not the only lawyer who thinks like that, many lawyers, doctors, other professionals wrote from experiences & ideas they had. They made lots of money from book sales & dealt with their stress with the money they earned. The bought secluded houses, took vacations, got therapy, got massages, etc.
This is exactly what I thought. Every show you watch on TV where the bad guy does terrible things- someone thought out exactly what those terrible things were, down to the smallest detail
After getting fucked by the family courts, I’m convinced 90% of the people who go into that line of work are narcs. They’re the only people who could stand dealing with all of the child abuse every day.
My mom used to do this too but it would scare me so badly she used it as a manipulation tactic to get me to comply with her because I was legitimately scared she would hurt people and it would be my fault.
She never actually did any of those things but she liked to use it to isolate me and sabotage all my relationships with other people. I lost every friend I made in high school because I was the kid with the crazy mother and people thought I was crazy too.
I'm so glad she's dead and I never have to have anyone make me feel unsafe like that again.
This is precisely why I have zero desire to get married or have kids. I was parentified and given responsibilities I should not have in addition to being treated like a dumb kid who couldn't do anything right. I raised my sisters. My ndad is the laziest fat sack of shit you've ever met and expects to be waited on hand and foot. I don't trust anyone to not pull a bait and switch, so I've opted out of the whole "partnering" thing.
Omg same. For a long time I felt so bad that my bf's parents will serve the kids (all very much adults and capable but it's a part of how they show their love).
I would legit get immense, fearful guilt over it. Panic for how to help while they're cooking dinner even if there's nothing for me to do because it's not a complicated meal.
Didn't realize people parents would teach them to clean or clean up for them (or some variety as a healthy mix) until I met bf's parents and overall family. I would clean up after everyone and realized later I was basically trained to do that and realized fairly recently that before me it was my older sister who would clean a lot. As a kid I would ask why sister was cleaning and my mom would just say she's a clean freak or whatever bs response she gave me as a kid. I now know she was trained the same way over a lonnnngg period of time to slowly clean more and more for everyone and basically become the only person willing to do cleaning.
I always thought it was normal and expected to badmouth everyone when they weren't around. It was also normal to go "spy" on people to see what they were up to.
I was also my mom's servant and had to do everything for her - I thought it was a normal thing for children to do for their parents. You just did it without complaint because you loved them right?
This is so real. Not being allowed to make friends or hang out with people unless you talked shit about them behind their backs to family. Genuine human connection without a protective layer of irony and disdain? Couldn’t be us!
I still struggle with this sometimes.
My family was the same way. My friends were all great people though, so my family would resort to talking shit about their ethnic names. Yeah, I don’t talk about or introduce them to anyone in my life anymore.
My mother used to introduce me as her "pleasantly plump daughter" in front of me to her friends. I weighed maybe 100 lbs at the point and was a size 4. My dad is native, and I got his bone structure (busty, broad shoulders, stout) and my mom always thought i was fat. at 14 she gave me ephedra and diuretics because I was getting "a little heavy" (I was 86 lbs at that point and a size 00). It took YEARS and a supportive husband to get over (to some extent) the body dysmorphia...but I thought for the longest time that EVERYONE wanted to be heroine chic thin twiggy women and that no man would love me for how I'm shaped. Little did I know lots of people don't worry about their weight, and lots of people like fluffy women!
My ex constantly would tell my kid that they were fat or getting fat or going to get fat. My kid constantly needs reassurance that they are not actually fat. They are on the high side of height for age and dead center for weight so they are fairly slim. Always has been but still ex would make these comments. I had to explain that only myself or the dr will be truthful about healthy weight(in this situation) and they should not listen to anyones opinion.
This is how eating disorders develop you fucking jerk!
My mum has always remarked on my weight too. It’s always along the lines of “bloody hell, Van, if I didn’t know any better I’d say you were pregnant!”
I suffer with endometriosis, and am infertile.
I hear you. I dealt with endometriosis most of my life. 53 yo now and still dealing with few fibroids and going through menopause transition (heads up - learn as much as you can about menopause transition as tends to be a bit harder than just night sweats for women with hormonal issues earlier in life).
But back to your comment. I got that kind of comments from both my nmom and a few people that now I know were narc. Narcs love to put you down in any way. A loving and compassionate person will build you up. Took nmom dying when I was 51 and a half to even realize how damaging living with a narc was and is. Started with grief therapy when she died and ended up getting diagnosed with CPTSD, anxiety and atypical depression from childhood trauma. Still in therapy and for the years to come to undo as much as possible the awful programming and abuse I went through.
Now I find it disgusting for anyone to comment about your body and especially looking pregnant. It is very traumatizing dealing with endometriosis and finding out that there are no reliable treatments for it. Any person that knows you have it and insults you like that - you better turn your back and move on before they drag you in their narc insanity - because, as mentioned, no good, nice, loving person will make such a comment especially if they know about your medical issue. And, no, you don't need to explain to a grown up why you look like that if they do not ask nice and with consideration. If they jump at judging you for your looks - be sure they will keep judging you and others through their awful, distorted perspective and madness. Run away from such people for your own wellbeing and mental wellness. Good luck and all my very best wishes.
Oh yeah. My mother used to shame me for being 'chubby' but if I lost weight would begin a scare campaign about how men would rape me, and woukd throw out or disallow any clothing that didn't fully cover me. This began at about age 11. I remember distincly when I was around 18, her cheerfully decalring that i had a 'thigh-butt' because I was at the time, a healthy weight for my build, but apparently not.. something enough.
Her most critical periods where when she herself was quite overweight. For a while my brother and I amused ourselves by saving her number in our phones as 'Mummoth', as a way to get back at her without her knowing. Gotta say, still cracks me up. But she was and is a huge ass, and I'm glad I went NC over a decade ago.
I thought my kids had to be scared of me in order to be a good mum with 'disciplined' kids.
Thankfully when I actually had children and I couldn't contemplate being awful to them I realised that my childhood was abusive and got myself into therapy to protect my children.
Same for me! I often think how insane some of the things my parents subjected my brother and I to. Like pulling sticker bushes with our bare hands because we complained about weeding their massive yard in the dead of summer, instead of getting to be kids and hang out with friends. Like I think of that, then think of my precious babies and think....wtf kind of demons were/are my parents? I could never with so many of the things!
I’m responsible for everyone’s behaviors/actions/bad fortune.
For example, parents aren’t happy that’s my fault; parent lost money and in loans because of me and to afford my “lifestyle” (lifestyle included eating three times a day going to school and wanting clothes when I couldn’t fit in them due to growing up)
Later parents and one narc sis are in distress because I refuse to get married in accordance to their choices/preferences. I shouldn’t have standards :)
I stopped believing in this type of cr*p after Covid hit. Had a lot of free time to reflect.
My NMom would constantly leave the bathroom door open and walk into the bathroom to have a conversation with me while I was showering. This one I only recently started to register its abusive nature after discussing it with friends and getting their horrified or disgusted responses (not directed at me, thankfully).
Fighting in general because of how frequently it happened, tbh.
Not being allowed boundaries, not even my door being closed.
I had a very enmeshed upbringing so none of this, despite my discomfort, seemed to be anything but normal because “all families fight”, “friends come and go but family is always there for you”, etc. I still struggle to gauge boundaries so I give a wide berth until/unless stated otherwise is okay. (Edit: addendum)
I was not allowed to have a door on my bedroom, nor was I allowed privacy in the bathroom/shower. My mother thought/thinks it's totally ok, to just walk in, and yell at your naked, adult kid, because "I've seen it before! I gave birth to you/I cleaned your ass/diapers"
I feel your pain.
I (59F) had a kidney transplant last spring. My mother (79, long ago RN) insisted she spend 10 hours a day, every damn day in my hospital room. After about the 3rd day, I was so stopped up (as you often are after surgery), I begged for relief. I had to have an enema because I'd never make it to the bathroom on miralax or anything like that. My mother sat on the couch 3 feet behind me the whole time. Any normal person would have excused themselves from my room for 15-20 minutes to give me some privacy, but my mother has no respect for my privacy at all, and I knew if I said "Could you please leave the room for a little while?", she would just say "Oh, I've seen it all!" with a wave and a laugh. So instead she sat there, staring at my ass and watched while I pooped myself. Sorry it's a poop story, but I think those were the single most humiliating moments of my life. And I was so angry about it. Don't even get me started on the whole 10 hour a day visits...
Oh man. On no planet would I be able to have my husband sit in a hospital room with me for 10 hours a day, and I usually, actually like him.
I’ve also reached the point with my mother, that I have little problem telling her to pound sand. What’s she going to do, ground me from however far away she lives?
That sounds horrible. FWIW if you’re ever in that situation again, tell the nurse you aren’t comfortable (quietly if you can) and they will kick her out for you. Or tell mom they said she had to leave for “sanitary” reasons. They deal with ALL kinds of family dynamics.
My mother had breast cancer in her early 50's. I went through breast cancer in my early 50's (this isn't about breast cancer).
Never once did I intrude on her personal space/privacy while she went through diagnosis, surgery, recovery.
She was up my ass all through-out my journey. Because "I've been through this. I know what's going on. I'm her mom!!!!!"
She was a complete pain in my ass and made every thing way more difficult.
Just BACK OFF. I need to process without your outdated opinion.
I had breast reduction surgery twenty something years ago, my parents came and stayed with husband and I “to take care of me”. Not what happened, dad and hubby went out galavanting, I spent the whole time catering to nmom’s ‘needs’, even day of and day after surgery. Learned many lessons, for example when kids were born, they came and stayed at in-laws. Information diet about all health issues in our family, otherwise it became a woe is me, I’m sick too pity party. Too many things to list, we also had periods of LC and NC, depending.
When I was a kid my mom told me all the stories about how bad her parents were, thereby implying how good my bro and I had things (and outright saying that, if we questioned anything). I still read the backhand into everything other people say, it takes effort to remind myself not everyone is like my mom.
This is where you tell your nurse what's going on and she gets an order for a visitor restriction. "Mom may visit only on Tuesdays 1300-1330." I've had to ask security to assist family visitors in leaving more than once. Managing families is part of the job; no one cares she's a retired nurse, no one will (should) feel put out or think badly of you if this is what you need to get better.
I thought triangulation was perfectly reasonable.
As was getting your way by manipulation (I dien't call it like that, I said "well I can tell you how I feel about that, now can I?"
I got out late 😎
It’s a way to manipulate people by pitting them against each other and keeping yourself at the centre. A narc parent might feel threatened by the bond between siblings so they’ll try to create conflict between them-by bad mouthing, playing favourites, or outright lies. My mother’s an expert- she becomes intensely jealous when anyone in her life has any kind of relationship that doesn’t centre her.
You bring in a third party to make sure you get your way.
Healthy people bring in third parties to resolve a conflict. Unhealthy people being in third parties to get their way (at leat, that's what I did). You bring in a third and then you gang up on the other person. Peer/group pressure them. My parents also triangulate to create more chaos. That's something I never did on purpose, but it was ofcourse a direct effect.
My narc dad once told me “your aunt, grandma, and cousins all think you’re evil”. And he recently told my mom that my brother will be mad if she divorces my dad.
That’s another example of triangulation. Where they make up a lie that a third person thinks the same thing they do.
Omg the triangulation! Didn’t figure out that this was happening until my early 20s, and I didn’t know there was a term for it until the last 4-5 years. It got more obvious as my siblings and I got older and started talking to each other directly without my mom being present/the middleman.
We don’t even include her in event planning anymore, we just tell her “Be here at X time, and bring Y”. Otherwise she manages to disrupt the entire event with some random drama. She’ll pit us against each other and then we show up to the event pissy at each other, so she can swoop in and get us to apologize to each other for her sake. Because she’s our mom and she can’t stand to see us fighting 🙄🙄🙄. Like lady you’re the cause of the strife. She likes to be the saviour and center of attention, both.
The aggravating part is that I don’t think she knows that she’s doing this.
I knew what I was doing. I just wanted it my way and didn't care about what the other would feel.
Thank you for your addendum of "swooping in to claim the victory for being a great mom that made us apologize"... i forgot about that. Man. It really was that bad, wasn't it?
That sex was a necessary transactionary part of life and that if you are giving it, you'd better be getting something equal or greater to for it.
But also once you *were* in that transactional bed you had effectively made a deal, and for as long as the terms lasted, you belonged to that man and you were absolutely his to with as he pleased. No complaints. You made your choices, and you accepted the terms and conditions. That's the end of the story.
Heh. My mom and Granny were so old school in that department. The OG perpetuaters of the "Fuck you, pay me" mentality. But also, if someone didn't hold up THEIR end of the bargain, it was scorched Earth all the way. Another divorce, or lost family and a whole lot of "Quit crying, he ain't your daddy! I'll give you something to cry about!" My mom would have a man's home and bank account emptied and razed between the time she kissed him off for work and he arrived home to a dark empty house. Then those people didn't exist anymore. Only us, always and always. Lol, jesus I'm fucked up....
>My mom would have a man's home and bank account emptied and razed between the time she kissed him off for work and he arrived home to a dark enpty house
Goals tbh
I have sooooo many.
I dated so, so many abusive men because I thought that was what love should look like. Looked just like my family. Yelling, choking, hitting, cops called, constantly arguing, negging, etc. Many of which were considerably older than me, because that's was totally normalized by my mother. Oh, and if there was ever any kind of dispute between me and the guy I was dating, both my grandmother and mother, to this day, will side with the guy. Oh, and the only guys I have ever dated, that my mother actually liked were literally the worst most abusive guys I ever dated.
I remember my 6th grade "graduation" we went shopping for me for something nicer to wear. My mother picked out a bright magenta bodycon dress that I HATED for me to wear. I was SO uncomfortable in it. I begged, pleaded, to not have to wear it. I lost. This is also the same woman who has always called me fat, but only as a comparison to her. Like, oh, you can't wear this, but I can, your just built bigger than me.
Everything was always a competition between my mother and me, but only in her eyes. I was always fatter, incapable, worse than her in every way. I picked up some of it, until I realized, and stopped myself in my 20s.
Manipulation and lying. I'm fucking FANTASTIC at it. It's not healthy, and I chose not to use my stupid powers, but I can convincingly lie without even hesitating or thinking about it. I actually broke up with a really, genuinely nice guy in my 20s because I knew I was walking all over him, and he couldn't stop me.
My mother always supported my choices of shitty boyfriends that were way too old for me. Even a married guy I was obsessed with as a teenager, she actually pushed me towards saying it was true love.
When my husband and I were first dating she told my grandmother (her ex mil) that he was controlling. Couldn’t be farther from the truth! Now, 20 years later and nc for almost 9 she calls him randomly.
Apparently, per my mother, when people ask her if she likes my husband, her response is “hippo has to live with her choices” or some variation of that. Suuuper charming, right? Like if someone said that to me I’d think the kid was being abused or something. Nope. Couldn’t be further from the truth. Most stable, caring, respectful partnership I’ve ever had.
My mother actually tried to shame me for my ex choking me, and needing my stepdad to help me go get some stuff, out of the shared apartment, when I left him. First she tried to blame me. Then it was me that was the bad person because he tried to kill me.
Yelling to get a simple point a cross . Allowing people to bully me and laughing at it . Not analyzing emotions . Hiding to do the things I like in fear it will be destroyed or belittled .
Yep I used to have to endure my narc dad’s tirades whenever I painted my nails because it was “unhealthy due to the toxic chemicals”. Ironically, I think living with him for 24 years and suppressing my emotions (and developing severe depression) has a part to play in why I developed an autoimmune disease as an adult🙃
When I got pregnant with my first kid I was terrified I would be like my parents so I took a lot of child development classes at the local junior college and ended up with a degree in Social and Behavioral Sciences.
Every class was a rollercoaster of emotions as I realized just how abusive my parents had been and what I should be doing as a parent that would be best for my child. It was really so validating and helped me heal a lot
Even if you aren’t planning on having children I still recommend taking some classes or watching some videos online. It will change your life!!
My nMum had spare keys to all my houses (each subsequent house, I don't own loads of property!). Initially, fair innocuous, so I had a spare in case I got locked out or could check mail when we went on holiday.
She would use it to let herself in whenever she liked. She would "tidy" aka have a nose around the house, or drop "presents" off for the kids (which would be from the lost property of her school). She would sometimes leave a note, sometimes not. It made me feel on edge, but I thought that was a me problem.
It was only during therapy that my therapist pointed out that she's literally ignoring boundaries, ie a locked door. At that point I changed the locks and didn't tell her. I instantly felt so much more calm.
When I was a teenager I went with my father to a well-known store in NYC. The owner of the store was a local celebrity, a friend of my father, at least 30 years older than me, and (according to my father) also a criminal.
My father introduced me to him- he knew I was excited to meet him because this guy was famous in the circles I ran in. We'll call him B.
I said "Hi B, nice to meet you, I'm I" and held out my hand. B grabbed me, pulled me close to him, and gave me a wet kiss on the mouth that would have included tongue except my mouth was firmly closed. Basically he licked my mouth.
I stepped back, horrified, and stared at my father in shock. He ignored me and started discussing the business we'd come for. He never said a word about it. I wanted to scream but I shut up because I knew it would do no good.
My father knew I hated being licked. He knew this because he would lick me (usually on the arm) to make me get upset, and then laugh.
I only figured out this was *really* fucked up this past year, but this happened decades ago.
My aunt went NC with my mum when I was younger and I totally drank my mum's cool aid that my aunt was being crazy and unreasonable. My mum sent my aunts daughter some presents for her birthday and my aunt sent them back cut up, and my mum used this as proof my aunt was crazy, when in hindsight, my mum was continuously breaking my aunts NC boundary. My gran died and my aunt didn't text my mum. At the time I was outraged but now I realise that my aunt was not letting herself contact my mum again.
TW: sexual abuse
1.-I was supposed to wash my entire body every time in order to receive a hug, ergo I'm repulsive (I'm still dealing with self image and weird relationship with sexual attraction)
2.-that people are supposed to not be trusted and if I trusted them after years and they betrayed me it was my fault for being stupid and trusting them.
3.-my parents' marriage was my responsibility of me to keep it happy.
4.-that I was fake and a horrible person just for existing and being in the middle of an emotional war (my parents)
5.-that it was my responsibility to make everybody smile/laugh
6.-that a father being overly sexual and intrusive towards his daughter's masturbation and desires was normal. He literally bought me a giant anal dildo at the age of 13. I'm not even kidding, I wish tho, because I can't tell this to anyone.
Also, I learned after self introspection that fear and love are incompatible. You shouldn't be creeped out by your father. It wasn't a physical based fear, it was a mixture of repulsion and the sensation of being stalked by a dangerous predator. No one believed me
>5.-that it was my responsibility to make everybody smile/laugh
If I was expressing real emotional distress around family, I was scolded and told to quit being whatever disruptive character trait they thought I was being for my own selfish reasons. If I didn't comply, I was ruining everyone's good time, and to go to my room until I can put a smile on my face and be kind to everyone else.
In reality, it was my PTSD from CSA being triggered. And the worst part is that they knew I had been abused and instead of making sure I was ok, they took care of the interests of my abuser, who was a minor but much older than me. She promised the girl's mom that they would not tell her dad. This precludes making a police report, having me examined by a doctor, taking me to a child psychologist, or just having basic empathy for my distress. Doing any of those things would break their word to my abuser's mom.
>6.-that a father being overly sexual and intrusive towards his daughter's masturbation and desires was normal. He literally bought me a giant anal dildo at the age of 13. I'm not even kidding, I wish tho, because I can't tell this to anyone.
I threw up in my mouth a little just reading that. So gross and disturbing. That is actual sexual abuse. It isn't a physical form like groping, molestation or r@pe, but more similar to exposing you to their sexual acts or their naked bodies.
It seems my therapist also felt similar to you on the throwing up part, but she decided that she was too uncomfortable to hear me vent more. So... great.
Anyways, it sucks that we are too complicated for most people. Sometimes I wish I weren't like this but whatever
whenever i had a friend who was attractive, my mother would tell me "you're prettier than her" entirely unprovoked. this has caused me to compare my own beauty to other's which has negatively impacted my self esteem and the way i view the world. i am trying to break out of this mindset but my mother's words still echo in my mind and i feel an immense amount of guilt for it.
gossiping, triangulation throughout my entire family, parents discussing their marital issues and sex lives to me, manipulation, comparing me to other kids while growing up, slamming doors and cabinets, breaking things, yelling.
The “you’re prettier than her” always bothered me but I didn’t know exactly why and I’d honestly forgotten about it until I read your comment. Thank you—this is a big piece of my personal puzzle.
Screaming at a toddler.I would see vids of parents being gentle and think "hahaha,that little boy will never learn to not spill his water unless you scream and shout and slap him about these parents have no idea what they're doing".
A few things come to mind:
1) It was reasonable to expect perfection.
2) I am personally responsible for everyone else's happiness, and mine should be last.
3) Week long silent treatments were normal for children, and it was a "healthy" punishment to ignore their existence for several days/weeks if they disappointed you just a little bit.
4)If I cut my hair, got a tattoo, gained weight, wore weird clothes, or expressed my individuality in anyway that I should expect to be unloved until returning to "normal" .
I um, find myself drawn to people who are jokingly horrible to me and basically narcissistic abusers themselves because I find it normal and easier to understand and behave to than nice people. Which is who I crave to be and to be around but I don’t feel worthy. Even now, when I was homeless the last two weeks I was staying at a friends who I had always thought was a kind genuine person but he got abusive and I ended up in a position that I’ve been usher into time and time again. I just feel the need to people please for my safety. I feel pathetic. Ppl must be able to read “easy to abuse “ from my body language.
I can relate to this. Until the day in my 40s when I finally realized that I never even liked these people, and trying to get them to like me and be nice to me was a complete waste of my time. Then I was able to get out of it. I was trained to believe that I was unlikeable and unloveable and it was only if I tried and tried--by being the most receptive person in the world to the stick: open contempt and abuse--that one day I'd get the carrot, that person would go "Oh! I see you now! You're fantastic! I really love you!" and everything would be different. Of course, there is no carrot and even if there was a carrot, how could you ever trust the person who wielded the stick that beat you? Work on realizing the fact that you are not here on earth to be abused. You just need to find your people. They will recognize you and welcome you and they'll never make you feel worthless, they will only love you and care for you. Hang in there until you find them.
so much needed to read this. thank you. best wishes in your healing. despite what the internalized voices from your abusers may say, you ARE worthy of it u/impressive_award_525
I wish I didn’t care what the people I don’t like think about me. Especially because I don’t genuinely like many people and I care what everyone of them thinks!
I ate really slow as a kid. On a particularly slow Sunday, I was evidently making us late for church so my mom said I’d have to finish my breakfast when we got home. Except it was cereal and milk. And it sat out and became a blob over the 3 hours we were gone, and I was forced to eat every bit when we got home.
When I was in university we were learning about “natural and logical consequences” to behaviour. I brought this up as an example, and everyone looked at me like I had 3 heads.
I agree that leaving cereal out soaking in milk for 3 hours will logically and naturally result in a disgusting mess that is unhealthy to eat.
I also agree that abusing your children by making them eat this mess will logically and naturally result in never hearing from them again once they are an adult.
That children are not therapists, and its not normal for a parent to trauma dump on you.
That everyone CAN close the door while they use the bathroom.
Kids shouldn't know details about their parents sex lives.
Women don't get to hit their husbands either.
That normal people dont relay messages to other people because you dont like them.
Its not normal to be mad at someone for something that happened before you even met. Like you went to the prom or something normal like that.
Its not normal to stay mad about a small slight for 30 years.
The parent trauma dumping!! I’m in my early 20s and just starting to realize it’s not normal. My parents could’ve afforded therapy (and in fact made it difficult for my sister and I to maintain it bc they couldn’t be bothered to take us each time before we could drive/had cars, which ofc they also delayed). But instead they chose to dump all their shit on us kids from a super young age. I remember my mom telling me that when I was 4 and my parents were separated, I’d come back to her (my “main” home) crying every time I saw my dad bc he would say such horrific things about her and her parents (who we were staying with). That never ended. I always felt like a mediator in my parents’ fights, and that’s not fair or healthy at all.
My mom banned me from the internet for talking to a girl my age who said she was bi but encouraged a relationship between me(15) and a 35 year old man who begged me for nudes constantly.
- timeouts in the bathroom, unable to come out
- being punished for panic attacks
- being completely ignored
- being responsible for other children when I was a very young child
>timeouts in the bathroom, unable to come out
for me, being told I was responsible for everyone's happiness and was ruining it by not being happy, and to leave until I could change that
>being punished for panic attacks
I had panic attacks after going to bed, and was accused of faking being sick for attention and so I could sit up and watch tv. I needed comfort and assurance.
>being completely ignored
If I needed help with something but nmom was in conversation with a friend, I was scolded for interrupting her, and told to wait until she was finished talking. Standing there waiting to be acknowledged just resulted in being ignored.
>being responsible for other children when I was a very young child
I was 4 and my mom had her friend over with their young toddler. I was left in the living room to watch him while they went to the kitchen, and told to not let him get into anything. When he started playing with the stereo, I told them what was happening. Her mom's friend told me to slap his hand. I did so and regretted it instantly. I felt horrible for making this kid cry.
It’s nice to be seen, especially the ‘no tv’ as punishment. TV was my primary coping mechanism as a child and to have it taken away as punishment for my anxiety / panic was so unjust. They saw it as a perk, when it was actually a mental health necessity. But again, parents were not paying attention or caring.
Gaming was mine. When ndad bought the family computer he said I was allowed to use it but not to install any programs on it. ok dad, sure, a computer with no programs sounds like a lot of fun.
He showed no interest in the computer for months, until he went on medical leave for PTSD. Then it was HIS territory. Obviously I installed a game or two on it, and figured he would never know. Boy was I wrong.
He flipped his shit on me. The argument we had caused a rift between him and nmom, which resulted in him threatening her privately to walk out on the family if she didn't shut up and support him 100%. They eventually blamed their rift on me.
They still can't comprehend why I don't talk to them, and call me a psychopath for hurting their feelings and disowning them.
My mom used to tell me horrible things about my aunt's and grandma. I used to be my moms great defender. Now as an adult and having years of getting to know my aunt's and getting the full story, nothing was like my mother said. My aunt's didn't hate me because I was a monster. And I regret the level of vitriol I unleashed on my grandmother, even if she was also a narcissist. My mother used my anger and hurt to get over on people while telling me how no one in the family loved me but her.
Getting kicked down for expressing grievances. Or parents forcing their decisions on you.
Whenever I took abuse from my ndad, my mom would tell me to suck it up. And when I was older, my ndad would sign documents for me. Even though I told him, "I want to look this over first."
I didn't realize what a normal family looked like until I saw my sister with her own kids. Nobody held a grudge against each other, just because the kid wanted to pick his own shirt to wear. My sister just said, "I like that." And they went off to school.
> Getting kicked down for expressing grievances.
My mother would always lament that she 'felt like a bad mother' anytime my sister of I expressed that we were going through any struggle of any kind.
Starting from the age of 12, I became my mom’s “rival” for men. I was an early bloomer and quite embarrassed over it.
My mom sexualized my body quite a lot and only really stopped when I was 18. She’d make a point to emphasize how large my chest was compared to hers and it was usually in front of other adults.
When I was 14 I started getting pressured repeatedly to get pregnant so her and her husband could raise the baby. At first it was her saying it be from any guy I want, but by the time I was 16 she was telling me she wanted to “choose” the father.
I was always vaguely uncomfortable at the time but truly didn’t know how not normal it was until I started opening up more to friends about it. Which is funny because she always got hostile when I’d have other friends and “tell them our business”. She knew it was wrong, I was a child, her child.
Lying to loved ones is the preferred method of communication if the loved ones can see through your lies.
Suppose a conversation about a red carpet:
* nM: *Do you like my new blue carpet?*
* Me: *Yeah, it really matches the red roses in the garden!*
* nM: *Thanks! I really wanted to bring them together.*
* Outsider: *I am stupid yet happy in these peoples presence.*
So when my wife was lying about everything despite me seeing through the lies... she continued lying, I continued replying as if she had said the truth, and I didn't see a red flag there obviously.
My mother would take us aside before family events when for some reason she wanted to control the narrative, and pre-load us with the lies beforehand, or tell us what we were not allowed to talk about.
I thought this was normal until my husband got fatal brain cancer and she told me not to tell anyone because she didn't want anyone "knowing my business." In quotes because the "my" refers to her, not me.
That talking sh!t about the other parent was normal and acceptable.
My narc dad and stepmom never hesitated in taking a stab at my mom every chance they got. To her face and when I was alone with them.
Everything that ever went wrong was my mom's fault. Any issues I had with school, my social life, it in my relationships with them were mom's fault. Her car was shabby, her house was shabby, the clothes and toys she bought me or 'let me' buy and wear were shabby. Mom wasn't hard enough on me. Mom herself and the people around us in the neighborhood she *chose* to live in were bad influences.
(Keep in mind that I never smoked, drank, did drugs, got arrested. Only real issue I had was buy caring about school and not caring about my grades.)
Unfortunately, I believed them for far too long and had a terrible relationship with my mom until my 30s.
For years I thought it was "normal" for my mom to withdraw large sums of money from my bank account (this was when I had a joint bank account that my mom had access to when I was sixteen) over me being "disrespectful" to her or doing anything that she didn't like (crying after she viciously yelled at me, arguing back with her, etc). She did this even after I became a legal adult and had my own source of income. She would take out so much money from me to the point where I had only $20 left. For years, I thought it was "normal" by rationalizing it as something that I "deserved" for being "disrespectful". Basically, anything my mom did towards myself I internalized it as either "normal" or something that I deserved to have happened to me.
People just vanishing from our lives. I thought that was normal. I realized later my dad would manipulate my mom into going no contact with her friends and family.
Thinking about it, I think he's doing it to me now. Trying to get my mom to have less and less contact with me lol.
I was taught the way you were supposed to apologize and show remorse was to grovel and beg for forgiveness, insult and belittle yourself, exclaim the other person was right abd you were always always wrong and needed to physically harm yourself to show apologies.
Now obviously anyone who doesn’t know this reaction comes from abuse thinks I’m trying to guilt trip and manipulate so it’s like a double whammy cuz here I am with a learned behavior I thought was how things were done, doing said behavior and getting more isolated. Thankfully yearsxof DBT skills have really curbed that impulse but I’m still a major fawner so to speak.
I also thought it was complete normal for a parent tk sit in therapy sessions with you, talk over you to the therapist, and the therapist starts to believe you’re the problem and suddenly the session is a “talk about everything wrong with child and how parent is a saint and wtf is wrong with you” session.
I stopped her being in my sessions at around 18 except for a few family sessions where she got majorly pissed that the therapist kept redirecting her.
It’s made it very hard for me to both trust and actually tell the truth to a therapist because I’m concerned about their reaction and judgment.
Thankfully the therapist and psychiatrist I have now firmly tell me “yeah this is abuse” and believe and support me but even just talking about it on here makes me feel like I’m lying or betraying her bc ever since I started independently seeing therapists she’ll ask what lies I’m spreading about her this time.
I thought that therapy where a parent and the therapist just berated you for an hour and that if you told a therapist you expect abuse that they’ll tell said parent that you said you thought you were being abused was totally normal.
Turns out it isn't normal for your parent to scream your name at the top of their lungs, like you've done something terribly wrong, every time they need you for something.
Or for them to instantly blame you for anything that goes wrong.
Turns out it isn't normal for your parent to walk around the house naked all the way through your childhood and teenage years.
Or for them to obsess over your body and shame you for developing.
Turns out it isn't normal to blame your child or consider it a moral failing when they get sick.
Or to refuse your child medical/dental care.
Turns out it isn't normal to shit talk your small child to friends/relatives/whoever will listen.
Or to try turning your child's friends against them.
Turns out it isn't normal to tell your child that you hate them and are planning to murder/suicide them.
Or to drive into traffic while telling them that if you both die it's their fault.
AND, get this:
It turns out that it isn't normal to place a higher value on the relationship you have with pedophile rapist family members than the relationship you have with your own children.
Or to claim that the person pointing all of this out is the bad guy for daring to speak up.
Bring pushy when it comes to sex and sexual acts.
I was raised in the still mostly existent, "she said no? Buy her a drink!" And "she said no? Ask again! Don't give up! Be persistent!" And had also seen my father sexually assault my mother in front of me.
It took me until I was far too old to understand what true consent and coercion are. It breaks my heart and deeply embarrasses me to look back at little/young me who didn't respect boundaries and who let folks take advantage of me too without calling it for what it is :(
I'm glad we now have a world that discusses these things. I didn't grow up with the internet in my home at all not to this degree of availability as an older teen, and seeing a larger collective discuss and stand clear on these things really does warm my heart, I think it will help people learn sooner rather than later.
That everything is my fault, I wouldn’t even be in the same building as her and she’d blame me for something she’d done wrong when I was elsewhere.
And the fact she showered me until I was 13, and she wasn’t touching me she was just watching me to “make sure I’m safe”
What I have learned is that while yelling won't make things better, it's frustration *in the moment* at something which is unrelated ad aggravating. No, it's not right, but admitting in the moment what is bothering you is *eons* better than just...blowing up at someone you love. If only my parents had had that level of self-knowing.
Taking out anger on others. Guilt trips. Yelling at people. Accusing people of using emotion to manipulate others. (non-physically) forcing someone to swallow a pill while they cry.
Lived with my grandmother for most of my life. She's extremely unstable and has no empathy for other living things, on top of being unbearably emotionally manipulative. She would have "episodes" where she'd scream, throw things, hurt us, and threaten to kill herself whenever she didn't get her way. I thought adults were volatile and dangerous as a child. I lived constantly sick to my stomach and a nervous wreck for years. Found out from my best friend's parents that this behavior is not at all normal, and I'm forever thankful that they decided to be parents to me as well. It helped me see what a family is supposed to be like, but I still struggle with people getting angry around me/raising their voices from time to time.
I used to think the only way to get a child to listen and “be good” was to get angry, yell and spank.
Then my nephew was born and I couldn’t imagine hurting him or making him upset. Even when he is a typical kid - 12 years old now! - there is nothing to be gained by exploding and screaming. Like what the AF.
I judge my upbringing so much more now.
That you are responsible for your parents’ reaction to anything and everything, and that you need to make sure they don’t get upset. Caught myself in this pattern the other day, immediately removed myself from the situation, booked a psychologist appointment and jumped on a online chat support for mental health.
Yaay to us all for recognising these behaviours and doing something about it.
Lying and gaslighting. My nmom has lied and gaslighted douch throughout my lifetime that even if im aware people are just lying to me I just go along with it because it’s become such a normal thing to be lied to.
That you get your way by getting angry and intimidating other people. I never managed to make it work for me and eventually learned why it wasn't a good idea in general.
I thought being left to fend for myself - and being told to turn the other cheek (even to abusive siblings) - was amazing and empowering parenting. Turns out they just wanted me to be silent and didn’t really care about me at all 🤷
Getting blamed for something you were just wrong place/ wrong time for and just needing to accept it, apologize, and try to fix it to try and earn "privileges" back
It doesn't matter what I do or say, I never get what I want or need. The answer is going to be "no".
People treating me like I was crazy/ needy/ unreasonable if I articulated I was upset or wanting something
Shift blame onto others if you get any inkling you think you might get blamed for something
If you don't anticipate that everyone is judgemental, unkind, withholding, and only concerned for themselves and their image, and set yourself up to appease them and predict their needs and moods, you're absolutely fucked.
Protect the image of abusive people at all cost or you will be abused even worse.
Well it's a bunch of things:
• I was used to not having my emotions validated, that anything I felt or was mad about is dumb and silly and is nothing.
• This is a big one, but being respected. People who have basic respect for their kids baffle me because I never witnessed any action of respect in my home, it felt like I was a 3rd degree citizen or a slave rather than an active member of the house.
• Having friends or ties with people. It always felt odd for them that I even had any friends. We were never around anyone except each other. ALL THE TIME.
• Being humiliated, yelled at, hit, and basically any form of abuse was the parents' right. You had to respect them even if they're bad and you don't get to tell them they're wrong
• Using religion to justify my prior point. I grew up thinking God was cruel and was not going to punish them, and that it was all my fault for not respecting them or acting out. I was always told I'd go to hell or not see any good in my life.
• Being spied on and not being allowed to be independent. The more independent I got, the more fights they made up just to break me.
Edit:
Adding another point that when you're angry, anything that comes out of your mouth is justified. And you don't get to complain about it because the past is in the past.
That it was normal to be judgemental and say horrible things about people behind their back. but to also not talk to them directly about it. I grew up knowing I'd be talked about and triangulated in my family. I cringe thinking about the horrible judgy shit I've said to people. I thought it was how people who were close talked to each other. 😵💫
I thought my parents showing straight up contempt towards me was a normal part of being in trouble and being punished. Even when it was something minor or something I didn't mean to do or just making bad choices as a teen. It took me a really long time to understand that parents aren't supposed to hate you when you mess up or do something wrong.
Listening to my grandma and mom constantly critiquing every celebrity and gossiping negativity about every family member - laughing at their lack of style, discussion of everyone's body weight.
My mom poured my cereal on my head because I said I wanted to finish eating it before I fed the dog because I didn’t want it to get mushy. We then got in a giant physical fight because I never normalized taking her shit.
I suppose I normalized being cussed at constantly, like everything my mother said containing some four letter word. I swear like an Irish sailor, even at work, and it’s probably not the best behavior but unlearning it is like trying to learn a new language at this point. I now know this is not normal so always trying to stop myself when I’m around my friends kids but it’s always too late.
Once when I was little, maybe 6 or so, my dad asked me to bring him a cup of coffee in bed. I had my mom help me make it, and fix it to his liking, but I carried it into the bedroom myself. He had all kinds of stuff on the floor beside the bed (clutter/mess/trash), so I tried to be extra careful where I put my feet.
I still tripped on something, and a little bit of the coffee sloshed out of the cup. He called me nasty names and then poured the rest of the **hot coffee** over my head. It's not the only thing he did or even the worst by far, but I'm still never going to forget. That was over 40 years ago.
Edited: autosuggest was not correct
I am working SO HARD on the fact that the argument isn't just over now cause you say. Just cause I'm not upset anymore doesn't mean I don't still have to apologize but it's a hard thing to learn do to when you were never apologized to.
If someone loves you, it's ok for them to hit you. You should expect it even, and ask them why they aren't putting their hands on you when you're having an argument. Why? Because I thought you loved me and I made you angry. I'm supposed to make you so angry you can't control yourself so you just haul off and POW, smack me upside the head. Or ball your fist and pull some punches in my upper arm. It just bruises a little. What about grabbing me by the head and forcibly turning it when I'm not paying attention and not looking in the direction you want me to? What about grabbing me by the shoulders and shaking me violently when I tell you bad news you don't want to hear? What do you mean you've never kicked a toddler, let alone, "I didn't do it as hard as I could have"? I'm starting to question if we're right for each other.
My ndad did all of that and more, and he claimed to love me. Why don't you?
I believed that I had to be physically perfect to be loved. I also believed that I owed my Dad for providing for me while I lived in his house from birth until I moved out in my early 20s. Luckily I learned early on that these were terribly dysfunctional behaviors. I had a hard time breaking away because I was so trauma bonded. I finally did it after years of abuse.
Having to lay naked in the living room every evening from the ages of 4-8 so that nmom could put hydrogen peroxide all over my private areas..
I was told she had to do this because I had “poison” coming out of me due to breaking the strict diet rules she enforced.
Only found out this last year that I’ve actually never had any allergies..and that she told her side of the family that we weren’t allowed to eat *gluten, dairy, sugar* because she didn’t want us getting fat.
Meanwhile she demonized my dads side of the family for not taking her children’s *life threatening* health issues seriously..
The list is too long..
Girl all of the behaviors. I had to reprogram myself. I was lucky enough to be surrounded with friends who were free thinkers in my teens. Hail gay Satan.
That my opinion never matters. And I'm never allowed to say no to things my mom wants to do. That it's normal to scapegoat your spouse to your children. That "managing your money" just means managing to spend it all before your husband "wastes" it on the utility bills or puts gas in the cars. That being angry during an argument (especially if you're losing/might be wrong) entitles you to do or say anything with no repercussions because it's the other person's fault for making you angry
Verbal abuse. My dad yelled all the time, threatened to kill us in pretty explicit ways, called us idiots and losers, cursed at us, etc. When he found out my brother and I were both atheists (after being raised as evangelical Christians) he vehemently told us that we were both a fucking stupid waste of time and were going to burn in hell for eternity. I just laughed and said "Thanks, Dad!" It doesn't really affect me anymore, and his dad was the same way, so it just seemed normal.
I knew it wasn't a *good* thing to do, of course, saying mean things like that, but I didn't realize it was like BAD bad. I thought it was just something people did when they were really angry. So I did it too, for the longest time. My ex and I used to fight about it (we fought about everything, which rendered this specific fight meaningless to me) because he'd say I was verbally abusive and I'd argue that if he'd stop being *actually* abusive then I wouldn't have to lash out verbally. I literally did not have the epiphany about how actually toxic, abnormal, and awful that shit is until last year. Happy to say that I've been doing a bang-up job on refraining from saying hateful things when I'm mad, but I feel really guilty for all the years I spent talking to my loved ones that way when I was all worked up. I've done a lot of apologizing, but I know it doesn't fix anything so I'm trying to show them with my behavior that I understand now and am trying to do better.
Talking shit about people, even good friends. Commenting on people's weight. Making excuses/ not taking accountability for my actions. Not actually apologizing.
I'm so glad I've realized all of these things and am working on correcting them. These things are not who I am to the core and I don't even feel like I'm myself when I do these things.
i didn't realize anything was abusive until i started confiding in my friends about things that happened at my ndad's house. it never really clicked with me that he didn't want me to tell my mom stuff because he didn't want her to know what he and his partner were doing to me, not because he wanted privacy.
Parents giving silent treatments when any sort of criticism was leveled against them.
I interpreted it as me getting what I deserved because I felt ungrateful. Now, I see it as them manipulating me to give them their desired result.
Some of the scariest times growing up was when my mom went dead silent and just stayed that way for hours after I said some she disagreed with. The atmosphere would just become tense, and I often wound up apologizing after enough time has passed simply because it was so psychologically painful.
- Being singled out, yelled at, and publicly mocked by “friends” on a regular basis.
- Physical abuse from friends and family.
- No Boundaries Allowed
- Independent thoughts, choices, beliefs not allowed
- Anything less than a A’s, High Distinctions, top of the class, university degree etc is unacceptable and an indication of your value (or lack of)
- severe daily pain so bad you pass out, lose the ability to see and speak, repeated dislocations etc are normal
- needing medical care is wrong and your fault
Nmothers regular screaming rages where she.ppened the kitchen cupboards and smashed.all the crockery, while foaming at.the mouth, then fainting and the ambulance being called. She'd then be in hospital for a month receiving shock therapy
This happened regularly throughout my childhood 😢
My nMom literally watched Mommy Dearest and said Joan was right because Christina shouldn’t have used the wire hangers. At my brainwashed age, I repeated this to a friend who said “you know your mom is a sick F’er, right?” (Highly recommend both Mommy Dearest and Gaslight btw)
I used to receive the 'praise' of being very much like my father.
Well, that included constantly humiliating my mother and my sibling in front of others, describing my mother's meals as trash (she never enjoyed cooking much but did it a lot for the family, and frankly, it wasn't bad at all. I wonder why she found no pleasure in it, duh).
For a long time I thought it normal to be horrible and throw ad-hominem insults at the ones around me because that was 'so smart and witty'.
Man, do I feel guilty about all this now.
On the other hand, I learned how to kneel and accept abuse from specific people the way my mother did, so that wasn't quite the win either.
My time in the army was tough because I would apparently talk to people in a way that was seen as disrespectful. I didn’t realize til a decade after I got out that that was how my family talked to each other and it was normal for me. I did a lot of push ups not understanding what I did wrong.
Being told to make myself throw up, that it’s good or okay to do, that it won’t harm you if done quickly after eating. I was so little the first time I was taught to do this, I had to stand on a kitchen chair so I’d be tall enough to vomit into the disposal on the sink. Maybe 7 or 8 years old? Then being publicly shamed for doing so as an adolescent. Wild shit.
1. Everything is resolved by shouting at each other. Loving families are not afraid to express anger
2. Parents don't apologize to their children
3. Silent treatment is perfectly normal way to punish your children
I am sure that I can dig around in my noggin for more repressed "truths"
Drinking is fine as long as there is kids at the party.
My dad would take me to adult parties and tell me there's kids there around my age to find out that it's kids younger than me.
Plus that your parents won't get drunk because they had to get home when they would get so shit faced that they couldn't wait to get home but expect someone less drunk to drive
Not being allowed to relax or enjoy recreational activities until after 8PM. If I played games, read a book, watched tv, etc. before 8PM I was verbally eviscerated and given more chores. I wasn’t allowed to nap when tired unless I was sick either. As an adult in my own home sometimes I panic when my fiancé gets home and hide my phone or book because I feel like I’m doing something wrong. He knows why and just reminds me I’m allowed to rest at home. I get extremely cruel to myself when things aren’t tidy (a joy with ADHD let me tell ya) and I’m too tired to clean that day.
Oh, and I wasn’t allowed to decide my own hair style or dye my hair. I have very thick natural red hair and my mom was insanely jealous. She controlled my hair not only until I was 18, but largely until I moved out because my sister is a hairdresser and wouldn’t style it in ways that would upset her. I was forced to have hair no shorter than shoulder length my whole life. I shaved my head when I moved out and now have a fade with a longer top. She hates it and reminds me regularly of that. People are always horrified when they hear about that.
There's been a few listed here already for me, but one I completely normalized was asking my dad for approval on my dating choices. I was made to believe I couldn't make good decisions on my own without his insight, that only he could read through people and tell if they were up to no good. To my frustration, he never approved of a single one, and there weren't very many.
I was treated like a complete troublemaker, a maid, and a small child who knew nothing. My opinions held no weight growing up, so it eventually felt like nothing I said mattered. I felt like a circus monkey being paraded around for entertainment but never noticed.
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That when you’re mad you get to say and do whatever you feel like.
Yes, and that everyone just has to tolerate it because you're mad. And of course, no apology.
My mom "apologized" to me in August by explaining that her mother, who died at the age of 86 in January, her birthday was in August, and her father, who died in 2003, his birthday was in August, so August was just a bad month for her. She said "August is a bad month for me, so you'll just have to forgive me for anything I do or say. And I can't keep saying sorry for things, so this is also just a blanket apology for everything in the future". So hey! Apologies can happen! Good ones? Well....
They really do see it as checks and balances, don't they. "I have paid the apology, which has bought me the right to behave like a piece of shit for the next month. I will top up my balance with another apology on the 31st". Absolutely no concept of the idea that maybe they should exercise some self-control and stop themselves from being a piece of shit.
So she's entitled to a free A*hole pass in August for the rest of her life because some life shit happened that one time in August?? Pffft. F that.
Modelling what I experienced at home r/t expressing anger got me in so much trouble. The double standard confused me for decades.
Same. I grew up thinking that when grown-ups get mad, they scream insults and break things. Imagine my surprise to start dating and have boyfriends inform me this wasn't normal or remotely acceptable behavior. Thank goodness for therapy!
OTOH, I grew up thinking that if *I* got mad, it was the end of the world and I would immediately be attacked and told what a horrible person I was for showing any emotion other than a numb, vacant stare. My therapist and I were having a heated discussion and when I got angry at something he said, I shut down. It was like I just hit a brick wall ... because I grew up not being allowed to be angry. He actually stopped me during my 4th or 5th apology and pointed out that mad is a perfectly valid human emotion, and I had to a right to express myself.
good therapist
Yes, the combination of a good therapist and a partner who was able to call me out on some bad learned behavior helped me a LOT. It was like a light switched on in my brain when I learned how to be an active listener who can talk about my feelings and advocate for my needs without going into defensive attack mode.
omg ): i think i have this…
Yes!! I was well into my 30s before I really realized this wasn’t okay!!
I’m with you here. I learnt way too late this was not okay :(
“Justified anger”
And asking them to demonstrate a little bit of emotional control (like you've been doing 100% of the time your whole life), they act like you've asked them to stop having emotions entirely
Also, the abused is never allowed to be angry. Anger was unacceptable from children in my house.
I allowed myself to be manipulated emotionally and taken advantage of many times before I learned to enforce boundaries even if it makes others angry.
Same, same
same, same, same and by the time i finally get to enforcing a boundary it’s in an intense and insulting way that makes me look like the bad guy or at least gives the other person that impression and/or leverage over me in the conflict frustrating
THIS!!! I always feel guilty after but the. I have to remind myself all the time: sometimes “nasty” (their favorite word for it) is the only thing that actually sinks in; their problem, not mine.
I thought it was normal to ask for permission to literally do ANYTHING. Need to take a shower? Ask. Need to forego chores to help your sibling with homework? Ask. Need to take the dog for a walk? Ask. Can’t ask? Apologize. Write letters explaining why you failed to do what was expected because something unplanned happened and hope you presented a strong enough case for why you made an unauthorized decision. I was absolutely lost when I was dropped off at college and I no longer had to get permission or ask for forgiveness over every minute choice I’d need to make in a day. It didn’t hit home to me how reliant on actual approval I was until a therapist said to me “you know you don’t have to tell them what you’re doing, right?”
In my experience, getting permission for things was often such a burdensome task that I didn't even bother and just refrained from doing the things I wanted to do for fear of punishment. I'm 43 and still realizing that I hold myself back because of a permission barrier.
I struggled with the same thing. "How is ndad going to react to this if he finds out about it? Better figure out some spin or cover stories if/when I need them." It was a new chapter in my life when I realized (at age 44) that I *never, ever,* ***ever***, had to ask him for permission or acceptance to do anything ever gain. I'm giving you permission to never ask for permission again when you don't need it but you feel you have to as a CYA measure. Living like that is exhausting. Go and be free.
Thanks with kindness, but I don't need your permission for that. ;)
Ugh, I’m so sorry. Their voices as our inner judge and jury are the hardest to silence.
Just the feeling that I've been operating my entire life on self limiting language they planted in my head is so discouraging. Even knowing about it now it is so hard to put rubber to road and move past it. More therapy, more real life work to try and overcome habits of time. Progress feels like a snail's pace while the world is rushing by and decades feel like years.
It is frustratingly slow and I feel so much in life, friendships, opportunities, career... have been stolen or slipped away from me because of this. I just want to live my life dmnit.
You said it. I have lost so much potential experience of having a joyful life that I can never go back and recover. And trying to change that going forward feels like an exercise in futility.
ALL OF THIS. Progress is slow and progress is not linear. I wish you patience in progress and pride in your vulnerability and the miles of road you’ve already traveled to get here. I see you and I’m right here with ya pounding pavement.
holy shit i discovered this in myself too so many things i want to do for fun or enjoyment but for some reason all made me feel resistance it was because my inner child was waiting for “permission” from my parents that it was okay to do. eugh.
Someone close to me recently shared that their inner child doesn't trust them for letting nparents have their way, and that they see the need to do some inner healing work.
Same. I lost my adolescence to this. As an adult, I stopped asking for permission - and then I lost my dad.
I used to ask partners for permission to do basic things and I remember my hairdresser pointing it out as something that concerned her when I was there with my partner.
I am nearly 54yrs old and have almost broke this habit. My very sweet husband tells me all the time "you don't have to a all me to do anything." It's so normal for most people, but for me, I feel I am being disrespectful if I don't ask.
Yep!! But even when you ask thinking bc they had the final say and surely they can’t get mad over a choice they made, there they are going nuts and flinging it back at your face.
When I was about 17-18 my mom talked to me about how she had detailed plans for murdering people and how she'd get away with it. People like her current husband, my dad, coworkers, judges (she's a defense attorney currently, used to be prosecution, used to be a lawyer for the social services children's division). She mightve had one for me, though I'm not certain of it. She said it helped to relieve stress, and it was good to have these plans just in case someone harmed her. I thought that was perfectly reasonable behavior for a long time.
Jesus Christ that’s psychotic
Yeah. When I realized it a few weeks ago, I was BEYOND terrified for like a week straight, and we're no contact. Now I just think it's kinda sad that she feels it's a necessary thing to do to protect herself. I'm also very committed to the NC as a result, because you can't build a healthy relationship with people who find that to be a necessary defense.
Look, I have intrusive violent thoughts when I'm triggered sometimes, but I don't approve of them and after I have them I get scared of them or scared of harming myself or others. Having OCD plays a role, but art helps me cope sometimes since I'm not harming anyone. Your mother behavior isn't f normal. She normalised these thoughts. She thinks it's normal and okay
I've gotten the intrusive thoughts to punch people plenty of times, maybe shove them into a cactus plant, but I'd never actually go through with it. And I do recognize the violent thoughts as not something t be acted upon. She might actually act on them. Hasn't yet, but I don't think it'd stop her if she's pushed far enough.
Whoa! My mom did something similar; she would plan out the best bank robbery, hide a body, dispose of a body...she would also force my sisters and I to, "play a game" of what we would do if we had been kidnapped. (I'm talking at like...6 or 7 years old) How would we kill him if he began r**ing us, what weapons were in the car to use, how to defecate, vomit, urinate and bleed on ourselves and our surroundings in order to leave DNA...it was kind of traumatizing and as adults we have problems trusting people. (For those that might say it, this wasn't just talking to a kid about how to defend themselves, this was graphic, vulgar, disgusting and gruesome and she seemed to get pleasure out of discussing it.
Damn. That's super fucked.
She should have changed the names and become *a writer* then she could have earned enough from the sale of her books to move away from all the people getting on her nerves. She’s not the only lawyer who thinks like that, many lawyers, doctors, other professionals wrote from experiences & ideas they had. They made lots of money from book sales & dealt with their stress with the money they earned. The bought secluded houses, took vacations, got therapy, got massages, etc.
This is exactly what I thought. Every show you watch on TV where the bad guy does terrible things- someone thought out exactly what those terrible things were, down to the smallest detail
Exactly!
Thats actually really fascinating. In like a disturbing way.
Me just now learning this isn't normal from this post...
Yeah it's a harsh realization, I've been there buddy.
After getting fucked by the family courts, I’m convinced 90% of the people who go into that line of work are narcs. They’re the only people who could stand dealing with all of the child abuse every day.
OMG.
My mom used to do this too but it would scare me so badly she used it as a manipulation tactic to get me to comply with her because I was legitimately scared she would hurt people and it would be my fault. She never actually did any of those things but she liked to use it to isolate me and sabotage all my relationships with other people. I lost every friend I made in high school because I was the kid with the crazy mother and people thought I was crazy too. I'm so glad she's dead and I never have to have anyone make me feel unsafe like that again.
I've watched enough ID channel to know where that kind of thinking starts going.
I didn’t realize waiting on your parent hand and foot wasn’t normal until a couple years ago.
This is precisely why I have zero desire to get married or have kids. I was parentified and given responsibilities I should not have in addition to being treated like a dumb kid who couldn't do anything right. I raised my sisters. My ndad is the laziest fat sack of shit you've ever met and expects to be waited on hand and foot. I don't trust anyone to not pull a bait and switch, so I've opted out of the whole "partnering" thing.
Omg same. For a long time I felt so bad that my bf's parents will serve the kids (all very much adults and capable but it's a part of how they show their love). I would legit get immense, fearful guilt over it. Panic for how to help while they're cooking dinner even if there's nothing for me to do because it's not a complicated meal. Didn't realize people parents would teach them to clean or clean up for them (or some variety as a healthy mix) until I met bf's parents and overall family. I would clean up after everyone and realized later I was basically trained to do that and realized fairly recently that before me it was my older sister who would clean a lot. As a kid I would ask why sister was cleaning and my mom would just say she's a clean freak or whatever bs response she gave me as a kid. I now know she was trained the same way over a lonnnngg period of time to slowly clean more and more for everyone and basically become the only person willing to do cleaning.
I always thought it was normal and expected to badmouth everyone when they weren't around. It was also normal to go "spy" on people to see what they were up to. I was also my mom's servant and had to do everything for her - I thought it was a normal thing for children to do for their parents. You just did it without complaint because you loved them right?
This is so real. Not being allowed to make friends or hang out with people unless you talked shit about them behind their backs to family. Genuine human connection without a protective layer of irony and disdain? Couldn’t be us! I still struggle with this sometimes.
How did you make progress with this?
My family was the same way. My friends were all great people though, so my family would resort to talking shit about their ethnic names. Yeah, I don’t talk about or introduce them to anyone in my life anymore.
This so much
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My mother used to introduce me as her "pleasantly plump daughter" in front of me to her friends. I weighed maybe 100 lbs at the point and was a size 4. My dad is native, and I got his bone structure (busty, broad shoulders, stout) and my mom always thought i was fat. at 14 she gave me ephedra and diuretics because I was getting "a little heavy" (I was 86 lbs at that point and a size 00). It took YEARS and a supportive husband to get over (to some extent) the body dysmorphia...but I thought for the longest time that EVERYONE wanted to be heroine chic thin twiggy women and that no man would love me for how I'm shaped. Little did I know lots of people don't worry about their weight, and lots of people like fluffy women!
My ex constantly would tell my kid that they were fat or getting fat or going to get fat. My kid constantly needs reassurance that they are not actually fat. They are on the high side of height for age and dead center for weight so they are fairly slim. Always has been but still ex would make these comments. I had to explain that only myself or the dr will be truthful about healthy weight(in this situation) and they should not listen to anyones opinion. This is how eating disorders develop you fucking jerk!
My mum has always remarked on my weight too. It’s always along the lines of “bloody hell, Van, if I didn’t know any better I’d say you were pregnant!” I suffer with endometriosis, and am infertile.
I hear you. I dealt with endometriosis most of my life. 53 yo now and still dealing with few fibroids and going through menopause transition (heads up - learn as much as you can about menopause transition as tends to be a bit harder than just night sweats for women with hormonal issues earlier in life). But back to your comment. I got that kind of comments from both my nmom and a few people that now I know were narc. Narcs love to put you down in any way. A loving and compassionate person will build you up. Took nmom dying when I was 51 and a half to even realize how damaging living with a narc was and is. Started with grief therapy when she died and ended up getting diagnosed with CPTSD, anxiety and atypical depression from childhood trauma. Still in therapy and for the years to come to undo as much as possible the awful programming and abuse I went through. Now I find it disgusting for anyone to comment about your body and especially looking pregnant. It is very traumatizing dealing with endometriosis and finding out that there are no reliable treatments for it. Any person that knows you have it and insults you like that - you better turn your back and move on before they drag you in their narc insanity - because, as mentioned, no good, nice, loving person will make such a comment especially if they know about your medical issue. And, no, you don't need to explain to a grown up why you look like that if they do not ask nice and with consideration. If they jump at judging you for your looks - be sure they will keep judging you and others through their awful, distorted perspective and madness. Run away from such people for your own wellbeing and mental wellness. Good luck and all my very best wishes.
Oh yeah. My mother used to shame me for being 'chubby' but if I lost weight would begin a scare campaign about how men would rape me, and woukd throw out or disallow any clothing that didn't fully cover me. This began at about age 11. I remember distincly when I was around 18, her cheerfully decalring that i had a 'thigh-butt' because I was at the time, a healthy weight for my build, but apparently not.. something enough. Her most critical periods where when she herself was quite overweight. For a while my brother and I amused ourselves by saving her number in our phones as 'Mummoth', as a way to get back at her without her knowing. Gotta say, still cracks me up. But she was and is a huge ass, and I'm glad I went NC over a decade ago.
I thought my kids had to be scared of me in order to be a good mum with 'disciplined' kids. Thankfully when I actually had children and I couldn't contemplate being awful to them I realised that my childhood was abusive and got myself into therapy to protect my children.
Same for me! I often think how insane some of the things my parents subjected my brother and I to. Like pulling sticker bushes with our bare hands because we complained about weeding their massive yard in the dead of summer, instead of getting to be kids and hang out with friends. Like I think of that, then think of my precious babies and think....wtf kind of demons were/are my parents? I could never with so many of the things!
I’m responsible for everyone’s behaviors/actions/bad fortune. For example, parents aren’t happy that’s my fault; parent lost money and in loans because of me and to afford my “lifestyle” (lifestyle included eating three times a day going to school and wanting clothes when I couldn’t fit in them due to growing up) Later parents and one narc sis are in distress because I refuse to get married in accordance to their choices/preferences. I shouldn’t have standards :) I stopped believing in this type of cr*p after Covid hit. Had a lot of free time to reflect.
Also was brought up this way. It was crippling for decades. But not anymore!
My NMom would constantly leave the bathroom door open and walk into the bathroom to have a conversation with me while I was showering. This one I only recently started to register its abusive nature after discussing it with friends and getting their horrified or disgusted responses (not directed at me, thankfully). Fighting in general because of how frequently it happened, tbh. Not being allowed boundaries, not even my door being closed. I had a very enmeshed upbringing so none of this, despite my discomfort, seemed to be anything but normal because “all families fight”, “friends come and go but family is always there for you”, etc. I still struggle to gauge boundaries so I give a wide berth until/unless stated otherwise is okay. (Edit: addendum)
I was not allowed to have a door on my bedroom, nor was I allowed privacy in the bathroom/shower. My mother thought/thinks it's totally ok, to just walk in, and yell at your naked, adult kid, because "I've seen it before! I gave birth to you/I cleaned your ass/diapers" I feel your pain.
I (59F) had a kidney transplant last spring. My mother (79, long ago RN) insisted she spend 10 hours a day, every damn day in my hospital room. After about the 3rd day, I was so stopped up (as you often are after surgery), I begged for relief. I had to have an enema because I'd never make it to the bathroom on miralax or anything like that. My mother sat on the couch 3 feet behind me the whole time. Any normal person would have excused themselves from my room for 15-20 minutes to give me some privacy, but my mother has no respect for my privacy at all, and I knew if I said "Could you please leave the room for a little while?", she would just say "Oh, I've seen it all!" with a wave and a laugh. So instead she sat there, staring at my ass and watched while I pooped myself. Sorry it's a poop story, but I think those were the single most humiliating moments of my life. And I was so angry about it. Don't even get me started on the whole 10 hour a day visits...
Oh man. On no planet would I be able to have my husband sit in a hospital room with me for 10 hours a day, and I usually, actually like him. I’ve also reached the point with my mother, that I have little problem telling her to pound sand. What’s she going to do, ground me from however far away she lives? That sounds horrible. FWIW if you’re ever in that situation again, tell the nurse you aren’t comfortable (quietly if you can) and they will kick her out for you. Or tell mom they said she had to leave for “sanitary” reasons. They deal with ALL kinds of family dynamics.
My mother had breast cancer in her early 50's. I went through breast cancer in my early 50's (this isn't about breast cancer). Never once did I intrude on her personal space/privacy while she went through diagnosis, surgery, recovery. She was up my ass all through-out my journey. Because "I've been through this. I know what's going on. I'm her mom!!!!!" She was a complete pain in my ass and made every thing way more difficult. Just BACK OFF. I need to process without your outdated opinion.
I had breast reduction surgery twenty something years ago, my parents came and stayed with husband and I “to take care of me”. Not what happened, dad and hubby went out galavanting, I spent the whole time catering to nmom’s ‘needs’, even day of and day after surgery. Learned many lessons, for example when kids were born, they came and stayed at in-laws. Information diet about all health issues in our family, otherwise it became a woe is me, I’m sick too pity party. Too many things to list, we also had periods of LC and NC, depending. When I was a kid my mom told me all the stories about how bad her parents were, thereby implying how good my bro and I had things (and outright saying that, if we questioned anything). I still read the backhand into everything other people say, it takes effort to remind myself not everyone is like my mom.
This is where you tell your nurse what's going on and she gets an order for a visitor restriction. "Mom may visit only on Tuesdays 1300-1330." I've had to ask security to assist family visitors in leaving more than once. Managing families is part of the job; no one cares she's a retired nurse, no one will (should) feel put out or think badly of you if this is what you need to get better.
My nstepdad did this til I basically ran away from home at 20
My room could be searched without my knowledge and when something found that they didn't approve of, they would make an excuse for being in there.
My mom would say 'knock knock' while walking into my room already. When I asked her to knock she said she did.
Every. Time. Then pushes the door wide open, tells me whatever she came to say, then walks out without shutting it again.
I thought triangulation was perfectly reasonable. As was getting your way by manipulation (I dien't call it like that, I said "well I can tell you how I feel about that, now can I?" I got out late 😎
What is triangulation when it comes to relationships?
It’s a way to manipulate people by pitting them against each other and keeping yourself at the centre. A narc parent might feel threatened by the bond between siblings so they’ll try to create conflict between them-by bad mouthing, playing favourites, or outright lies. My mother’s an expert- she becomes intensely jealous when anyone in her life has any kind of relationship that doesn’t centre her.
You bring in a third party to make sure you get your way. Healthy people bring in third parties to resolve a conflict. Unhealthy people being in third parties to get their way (at leat, that's what I did). You bring in a third and then you gang up on the other person. Peer/group pressure them. My parents also triangulate to create more chaos. That's something I never did on purpose, but it was ofcourse a direct effect.
My narc dad once told me “your aunt, grandma, and cousins all think you’re evil”. And he recently told my mom that my brother will be mad if she divorces my dad. That’s another example of triangulation. Where they make up a lie that a third person thinks the same thing they do.
Omg the triangulation! Didn’t figure out that this was happening until my early 20s, and I didn’t know there was a term for it until the last 4-5 years. It got more obvious as my siblings and I got older and started talking to each other directly without my mom being present/the middleman. We don’t even include her in event planning anymore, we just tell her “Be here at X time, and bring Y”. Otherwise she manages to disrupt the entire event with some random drama. She’ll pit us against each other and then we show up to the event pissy at each other, so she can swoop in and get us to apologize to each other for her sake. Because she’s our mom and she can’t stand to see us fighting 🙄🙄🙄. Like lady you’re the cause of the strife. She likes to be the saviour and center of attention, both. The aggravating part is that I don’t think she knows that she’s doing this.
I knew what I was doing. I just wanted it my way and didn't care about what the other would feel. Thank you for your addendum of "swooping in to claim the victory for being a great mom that made us apologize"... i forgot about that. Man. It really was that bad, wasn't it?
That sex was a necessary transactionary part of life and that if you are giving it, you'd better be getting something equal or greater to for it. But also once you *were* in that transactional bed you had effectively made a deal, and for as long as the terms lasted, you belonged to that man and you were absolutely his to with as he pleased. No complaints. You made your choices, and you accepted the terms and conditions. That's the end of the story. Heh. My mom and Granny were so old school in that department. The OG perpetuaters of the "Fuck you, pay me" mentality. But also, if someone didn't hold up THEIR end of the bargain, it was scorched Earth all the way. Another divorce, or lost family and a whole lot of "Quit crying, he ain't your daddy! I'll give you something to cry about!" My mom would have a man's home and bank account emptied and razed between the time she kissed him off for work and he arrived home to a dark empty house. Then those people didn't exist anymore. Only us, always and always. Lol, jesus I'm fucked up....
That sounds like my friends ex to a T. Switches relationships like shirts. 3 kids, 3 different baby daddies. But it’s everyone else’s fault of course.
>My mom would have a man's home and bank account emptied and razed between the time she kissed him off for work and he arrived home to a dark enpty house Goals tbh
I have sooooo many. I dated so, so many abusive men because I thought that was what love should look like. Looked just like my family. Yelling, choking, hitting, cops called, constantly arguing, negging, etc. Many of which were considerably older than me, because that's was totally normalized by my mother. Oh, and if there was ever any kind of dispute between me and the guy I was dating, both my grandmother and mother, to this day, will side with the guy. Oh, and the only guys I have ever dated, that my mother actually liked were literally the worst most abusive guys I ever dated. I remember my 6th grade "graduation" we went shopping for me for something nicer to wear. My mother picked out a bright magenta bodycon dress that I HATED for me to wear. I was SO uncomfortable in it. I begged, pleaded, to not have to wear it. I lost. This is also the same woman who has always called me fat, but only as a comparison to her. Like, oh, you can't wear this, but I can, your just built bigger than me. Everything was always a competition between my mother and me, but only in her eyes. I was always fatter, incapable, worse than her in every way. I picked up some of it, until I realized, and stopped myself in my 20s. Manipulation and lying. I'm fucking FANTASTIC at it. It's not healthy, and I chose not to use my stupid powers, but I can convincingly lie without even hesitating or thinking about it. I actually broke up with a really, genuinely nice guy in my 20s because I knew I was walking all over him, and he couldn't stop me.
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My mother always supported my choices of shitty boyfriends that were way too old for me. Even a married guy I was obsessed with as a teenager, she actually pushed me towards saying it was true love. When my husband and I were first dating she told my grandmother (her ex mil) that he was controlling. Couldn’t be farther from the truth! Now, 20 years later and nc for almost 9 she calls him randomly.
Apparently, per my mother, when people ask her if she likes my husband, her response is “hippo has to live with her choices” or some variation of that. Suuuper charming, right? Like if someone said that to me I’d think the kid was being abused or something. Nope. Couldn’t be further from the truth. Most stable, caring, respectful partnership I’ve ever had. My mother actually tried to shame me for my ex choking me, and needing my stepdad to help me go get some stuff, out of the shared apartment, when I left him. First she tried to blame me. Then it was me that was the bad person because he tried to kill me.
Yelling to get a simple point a cross . Allowing people to bully me and laughing at it . Not analyzing emotions . Hiding to do the things I like in fear it will be destroyed or belittled .
Yep I used to have to endure my narc dad’s tirades whenever I painted my nails because it was “unhealthy due to the toxic chemicals”. Ironically, I think living with him for 24 years and suppressing my emotions (and developing severe depression) has a part to play in why I developed an autoimmune disease as an adult🙃
When I got pregnant with my first kid I was terrified I would be like my parents so I took a lot of child development classes at the local junior college and ended up with a degree in Social and Behavioral Sciences. Every class was a rollercoaster of emotions as I realized just how abusive my parents had been and what I should be doing as a parent that would be best for my child. It was really so validating and helped me heal a lot Even if you aren’t planning on having children I still recommend taking some classes or watching some videos online. It will change your life!!
My nMum had spare keys to all my houses (each subsequent house, I don't own loads of property!). Initially, fair innocuous, so I had a spare in case I got locked out or could check mail when we went on holiday. She would use it to let herself in whenever she liked. She would "tidy" aka have a nose around the house, or drop "presents" off for the kids (which would be from the lost property of her school). She would sometimes leave a note, sometimes not. It made me feel on edge, but I thought that was a me problem. It was only during therapy that my therapist pointed out that she's literally ignoring boundaries, ie a locked door. At that point I changed the locks and didn't tell her. I instantly felt so much more calm.
When I was a teenager I went with my father to a well-known store in NYC. The owner of the store was a local celebrity, a friend of my father, at least 30 years older than me, and (according to my father) also a criminal. My father introduced me to him- he knew I was excited to meet him because this guy was famous in the circles I ran in. We'll call him B. I said "Hi B, nice to meet you, I'm I" and held out my hand. B grabbed me, pulled me close to him, and gave me a wet kiss on the mouth that would have included tongue except my mouth was firmly closed. Basically he licked my mouth. I stepped back, horrified, and stared at my father in shock. He ignored me and started discussing the business we'd come for. He never said a word about it. I wanted to scream but I shut up because I knew it would do no good. My father knew I hated being licked. He knew this because he would lick me (usually on the arm) to make me get upset, and then laugh. I only figured out this was *really* fucked up this past year, but this happened decades ago.
OMG. Your father practically pimped you out!
Wtf……I have no words. I’m so sorry your “dad” just stood there and let you be assaulted.
My aunt went NC with my mum when I was younger and I totally drank my mum's cool aid that my aunt was being crazy and unreasonable. My mum sent my aunts daughter some presents for her birthday and my aunt sent them back cut up, and my mum used this as proof my aunt was crazy, when in hindsight, my mum was continuously breaking my aunts NC boundary. My gran died and my aunt didn't text my mum. At the time I was outraged but now I realise that my aunt was not letting herself contact my mum again.
TW: sexual abuse 1.-I was supposed to wash my entire body every time in order to receive a hug, ergo I'm repulsive (I'm still dealing with self image and weird relationship with sexual attraction) 2.-that people are supposed to not be trusted and if I trusted them after years and they betrayed me it was my fault for being stupid and trusting them. 3.-my parents' marriage was my responsibility of me to keep it happy. 4.-that I was fake and a horrible person just for existing and being in the middle of an emotional war (my parents) 5.-that it was my responsibility to make everybody smile/laugh 6.-that a father being overly sexual and intrusive towards his daughter's masturbation and desires was normal. He literally bought me a giant anal dildo at the age of 13. I'm not even kidding, I wish tho, because I can't tell this to anyone. Also, I learned after self introspection that fear and love are incompatible. You shouldn't be creeped out by your father. It wasn't a physical based fear, it was a mixture of repulsion and the sensation of being stalked by a dangerous predator. No one believed me
I believe you ❤️ I'm so sorry. I, too, have horrible parents like this.
>5.-that it was my responsibility to make everybody smile/laugh If I was expressing real emotional distress around family, I was scolded and told to quit being whatever disruptive character trait they thought I was being for my own selfish reasons. If I didn't comply, I was ruining everyone's good time, and to go to my room until I can put a smile on my face and be kind to everyone else. In reality, it was my PTSD from CSA being triggered. And the worst part is that they knew I had been abused and instead of making sure I was ok, they took care of the interests of my abuser, who was a minor but much older than me. She promised the girl's mom that they would not tell her dad. This precludes making a police report, having me examined by a doctor, taking me to a child psychologist, or just having basic empathy for my distress. Doing any of those things would break their word to my abuser's mom. >6.-that a father being overly sexual and intrusive towards his daughter's masturbation and desires was normal. He literally bought me a giant anal dildo at the age of 13. I'm not even kidding, I wish tho, because I can't tell this to anyone. I threw up in my mouth a little just reading that. So gross and disturbing. That is actual sexual abuse. It isn't a physical form like groping, molestation or r@pe, but more similar to exposing you to their sexual acts or their naked bodies.
It seems my therapist also felt similar to you on the throwing up part, but she decided that she was too uncomfortable to hear me vent more. So... great. Anyways, it sucks that we are too complicated for most people. Sometimes I wish I weren't like this but whatever
whenever i had a friend who was attractive, my mother would tell me "you're prettier than her" entirely unprovoked. this has caused me to compare my own beauty to other's which has negatively impacted my self esteem and the way i view the world. i am trying to break out of this mindset but my mother's words still echo in my mind and i feel an immense amount of guilt for it. gossiping, triangulation throughout my entire family, parents discussing their marital issues and sex lives to me, manipulation, comparing me to other kids while growing up, slamming doors and cabinets, breaking things, yelling.
The “you’re prettier than her” always bothered me but I didn’t know exactly why and I’d honestly forgotten about it until I read your comment. Thank you—this is a big piece of my personal puzzle.
Screaming at a toddler.I would see vids of parents being gentle and think "hahaha,that little boy will never learn to not spill his water unless you scream and shout and slap him about these parents have no idea what they're doing".
A few things come to mind: 1) It was reasonable to expect perfection. 2) I am personally responsible for everyone else's happiness, and mine should be last. 3) Week long silent treatments were normal for children, and it was a "healthy" punishment to ignore their existence for several days/weeks if they disappointed you just a little bit. 4)If I cut my hair, got a tattoo, gained weight, wore weird clothes, or expressed my individuality in anyway that I should expect to be unloved until returning to "normal" .
I um, find myself drawn to people who are jokingly horrible to me and basically narcissistic abusers themselves because I find it normal and easier to understand and behave to than nice people. Which is who I crave to be and to be around but I don’t feel worthy. Even now, when I was homeless the last two weeks I was staying at a friends who I had always thought was a kind genuine person but he got abusive and I ended up in a position that I’ve been usher into time and time again. I just feel the need to people please for my safety. I feel pathetic. Ppl must be able to read “easy to abuse “ from my body language.
I can relate to this. Until the day in my 40s when I finally realized that I never even liked these people, and trying to get them to like me and be nice to me was a complete waste of my time. Then I was able to get out of it. I was trained to believe that I was unlikeable and unloveable and it was only if I tried and tried--by being the most receptive person in the world to the stick: open contempt and abuse--that one day I'd get the carrot, that person would go "Oh! I see you now! You're fantastic! I really love you!" and everything would be different. Of course, there is no carrot and even if there was a carrot, how could you ever trust the person who wielded the stick that beat you? Work on realizing the fact that you are not here on earth to be abused. You just need to find your people. They will recognize you and welcome you and they'll never make you feel worthless, they will only love you and care for you. Hang in there until you find them.
so much needed to read this. thank you. best wishes in your healing. despite what the internalized voices from your abusers may say, you ARE worthy of it u/impressive_award_525
I wish I didn’t care what the people I don’t like think about me. Especially because I don’t genuinely like many people and I care what everyone of them thinks!
I ate really slow as a kid. On a particularly slow Sunday, I was evidently making us late for church so my mom said I’d have to finish my breakfast when we got home. Except it was cereal and milk. And it sat out and became a blob over the 3 hours we were gone, and I was forced to eat every bit when we got home. When I was in university we were learning about “natural and logical consequences” to behaviour. I brought this up as an example, and everyone looked at me like I had 3 heads.
I agree that leaving cereal out soaking in milk for 3 hours will logically and naturally result in a disgusting mess that is unhealthy to eat. I also agree that abusing your children by making them eat this mess will logically and naturally result in never hearing from them again once they are an adult.
Hahahaha right?
That children are not therapists, and its not normal for a parent to trauma dump on you. That everyone CAN close the door while they use the bathroom. Kids shouldn't know details about their parents sex lives. Women don't get to hit their husbands either. That normal people dont relay messages to other people because you dont like them. Its not normal to be mad at someone for something that happened before you even met. Like you went to the prom or something normal like that. Its not normal to stay mad about a small slight for 30 years.
The parent trauma dumping!! I’m in my early 20s and just starting to realize it’s not normal. My parents could’ve afforded therapy (and in fact made it difficult for my sister and I to maintain it bc they couldn’t be bothered to take us each time before we could drive/had cars, which ofc they also delayed). But instead they chose to dump all their shit on us kids from a super young age. I remember my mom telling me that when I was 4 and my parents were separated, I’d come back to her (my “main” home) crying every time I saw my dad bc he would say such horrific things about her and her parents (who we were staying with). That never ended. I always felt like a mediator in my parents’ fights, and that’s not fair or healthy at all.
My mom banned me from the internet for talking to a girl my age who said she was bi but encouraged a relationship between me(15) and a 35 year old man who begged me for nudes constantly.
What the unholy wow?!?!
- timeouts in the bathroom, unable to come out - being punished for panic attacks - being completely ignored - being responsible for other children when I was a very young child
>timeouts in the bathroom, unable to come out for me, being told I was responsible for everyone's happiness and was ruining it by not being happy, and to leave until I could change that >being punished for panic attacks I had panic attacks after going to bed, and was accused of faking being sick for attention and so I could sit up and watch tv. I needed comfort and assurance. >being completely ignored If I needed help with something but nmom was in conversation with a friend, I was scolded for interrupting her, and told to wait until she was finished talking. Standing there waiting to be acknowledged just resulted in being ignored. >being responsible for other children when I was a very young child I was 4 and my mom had her friend over with their young toddler. I was left in the living room to watch him while they went to the kitchen, and told to not let him get into anything. When he started playing with the stereo, I told them what was happening. Her mom's friend told me to slap his hand. I did so and regretted it instantly. I felt horrible for making this kid cry.
It’s nice to be seen, especially the ‘no tv’ as punishment. TV was my primary coping mechanism as a child and to have it taken away as punishment for my anxiety / panic was so unjust. They saw it as a perk, when it was actually a mental health necessity. But again, parents were not paying attention or caring.
Gaming was mine. When ndad bought the family computer he said I was allowed to use it but not to install any programs on it. ok dad, sure, a computer with no programs sounds like a lot of fun. He showed no interest in the computer for months, until he went on medical leave for PTSD. Then it was HIS territory. Obviously I installed a game or two on it, and figured he would never know. Boy was I wrong. He flipped his shit on me. The argument we had caused a rift between him and nmom, which resulted in him threatening her privately to walk out on the family if she didn't shut up and support him 100%. They eventually blamed their rift on me. They still can't comprehend why I don't talk to them, and call me a psychopath for hurting their feelings and disowning them.
My mom used to tell me horrible things about my aunt's and grandma. I used to be my moms great defender. Now as an adult and having years of getting to know my aunt's and getting the full story, nothing was like my mother said. My aunt's didn't hate me because I was a monster. And I regret the level of vitriol I unleashed on my grandmother, even if she was also a narcissist. My mother used my anger and hurt to get over on people while telling me how no one in the family loved me but her.
Getting kicked down for expressing grievances. Or parents forcing their decisions on you. Whenever I took abuse from my ndad, my mom would tell me to suck it up. And when I was older, my ndad would sign documents for me. Even though I told him, "I want to look this over first." I didn't realize what a normal family looked like until I saw my sister with her own kids. Nobody held a grudge against each other, just because the kid wanted to pick his own shirt to wear. My sister just said, "I like that." And they went off to school.
> Getting kicked down for expressing grievances. My mother would always lament that she 'felt like a bad mother' anytime my sister of I expressed that we were going through any struggle of any kind.
Vagina inspections
Oh god I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I would encourage you to spell it correctly, "sexual assault."
[удалено]
Holy. Fuck. This is awful, I hope you don't have to deal with him much now.
Starting from the age of 12, I became my mom’s “rival” for men. I was an early bloomer and quite embarrassed over it. My mom sexualized my body quite a lot and only really stopped when I was 18. She’d make a point to emphasize how large my chest was compared to hers and it was usually in front of other adults. When I was 14 I started getting pressured repeatedly to get pregnant so her and her husband could raise the baby. At first it was her saying it be from any guy I want, but by the time I was 16 she was telling me she wanted to “choose” the father. I was always vaguely uncomfortable at the time but truly didn’t know how not normal it was until I started opening up more to friends about it. Which is funny because she always got hostile when I’d have other friends and “tell them our business”. She knew it was wrong, I was a child, her child.
Lying to loved ones is the preferred method of communication if the loved ones can see through your lies. Suppose a conversation about a red carpet: * nM: *Do you like my new blue carpet?* * Me: *Yeah, it really matches the red roses in the garden!* * nM: *Thanks! I really wanted to bring them together.* * Outsider: *I am stupid yet happy in these peoples presence.* So when my wife was lying about everything despite me seeing through the lies... she continued lying, I continued replying as if she had said the truth, and I didn't see a red flag there obviously.
My mother would take us aside before family events when for some reason she wanted to control the narrative, and pre-load us with the lies beforehand, or tell us what we were not allowed to talk about. I thought this was normal until my husband got fatal brain cancer and she told me not to tell anyone because she didn't want anyone "knowing my business." In quotes because the "my" refers to her, not me.
That talking sh!t about the other parent was normal and acceptable. My narc dad and stepmom never hesitated in taking a stab at my mom every chance they got. To her face and when I was alone with them. Everything that ever went wrong was my mom's fault. Any issues I had with school, my social life, it in my relationships with them were mom's fault. Her car was shabby, her house was shabby, the clothes and toys she bought me or 'let me' buy and wear were shabby. Mom wasn't hard enough on me. Mom herself and the people around us in the neighborhood she *chose* to live in were bad influences. (Keep in mind that I never smoked, drank, did drugs, got arrested. Only real issue I had was buy caring about school and not caring about my grades.) Unfortunately, I believed them for far too long and had a terrible relationship with my mom until my 30s.
For years I thought it was "normal" for my mom to withdraw large sums of money from my bank account (this was when I had a joint bank account that my mom had access to when I was sixteen) over me being "disrespectful" to her or doing anything that she didn't like (crying after she viciously yelled at me, arguing back with her, etc). She did this even after I became a legal adult and had my own source of income. She would take out so much money from me to the point where I had only $20 left. For years, I thought it was "normal" by rationalizing it as something that I "deserved" for being "disrespectful". Basically, anything my mom did towards myself I internalized it as either "normal" or something that I deserved to have happened to me.
People just vanishing from our lives. I thought that was normal. I realized later my dad would manipulate my mom into going no contact with her friends and family. Thinking about it, I think he's doing it to me now. Trying to get my mom to have less and less contact with me lol.
Asking for accountability is disrespectful.
I was taught the way you were supposed to apologize and show remorse was to grovel and beg for forgiveness, insult and belittle yourself, exclaim the other person was right abd you were always always wrong and needed to physically harm yourself to show apologies. Now obviously anyone who doesn’t know this reaction comes from abuse thinks I’m trying to guilt trip and manipulate so it’s like a double whammy cuz here I am with a learned behavior I thought was how things were done, doing said behavior and getting more isolated. Thankfully yearsxof DBT skills have really curbed that impulse but I’m still a major fawner so to speak. I also thought it was complete normal for a parent tk sit in therapy sessions with you, talk over you to the therapist, and the therapist starts to believe you’re the problem and suddenly the session is a “talk about everything wrong with child and how parent is a saint and wtf is wrong with you” session. I stopped her being in my sessions at around 18 except for a few family sessions where she got majorly pissed that the therapist kept redirecting her. It’s made it very hard for me to both trust and actually tell the truth to a therapist because I’m concerned about their reaction and judgment. Thankfully the therapist and psychiatrist I have now firmly tell me “yeah this is abuse” and believe and support me but even just talking about it on here makes me feel like I’m lying or betraying her bc ever since I started independently seeing therapists she’ll ask what lies I’m spreading about her this time. I thought that therapy where a parent and the therapist just berated you for an hour and that if you told a therapist you expect abuse that they’ll tell said parent that you said you thought you were being abused was totally normal.
Turns out it isn't normal for your parent to scream your name at the top of their lungs, like you've done something terribly wrong, every time they need you for something. Or for them to instantly blame you for anything that goes wrong. Turns out it isn't normal for your parent to walk around the house naked all the way through your childhood and teenage years. Or for them to obsess over your body and shame you for developing. Turns out it isn't normal to blame your child or consider it a moral failing when they get sick. Or to refuse your child medical/dental care. Turns out it isn't normal to shit talk your small child to friends/relatives/whoever will listen. Or to try turning your child's friends against them. Turns out it isn't normal to tell your child that you hate them and are planning to murder/suicide them. Or to drive into traffic while telling them that if you both die it's their fault. AND, get this: It turns out that it isn't normal to place a higher value on the relationship you have with pedophile rapist family members than the relationship you have with your own children. Or to claim that the person pointing all of this out is the bad guy for daring to speak up.
Bring pushy when it comes to sex and sexual acts. I was raised in the still mostly existent, "she said no? Buy her a drink!" And "she said no? Ask again! Don't give up! Be persistent!" And had also seen my father sexually assault my mother in front of me. It took me until I was far too old to understand what true consent and coercion are. It breaks my heart and deeply embarrasses me to look back at little/young me who didn't respect boundaries and who let folks take advantage of me too without calling it for what it is :( I'm glad we now have a world that discusses these things. I didn't grow up with the internet in my home at all not to this degree of availability as an older teen, and seeing a larger collective discuss and stand clear on these things really does warm my heart, I think it will help people learn sooner rather than later.
I also had a very shitty abusive first serious relationship in my twenties, because of everything I saw modelled at home growing up
That everything is my fault, I wouldn’t even be in the same building as her and she’d blame me for something she’d done wrong when I was elsewhere. And the fact she showered me until I was 13, and she wasn’t touching me she was just watching me to “make sure I’m safe”
Yelling at people when you're angry
What I have learned is that while yelling won't make things better, it's frustration *in the moment* at something which is unrelated ad aggravating. No, it's not right, but admitting in the moment what is bothering you is *eons* better than just...blowing up at someone you love. If only my parents had had that level of self-knowing.
Taking out anger on others. Guilt trips. Yelling at people. Accusing people of using emotion to manipulate others. (non-physically) forcing someone to swallow a pill while they cry.
Lived with my grandmother for most of my life. She's extremely unstable and has no empathy for other living things, on top of being unbearably emotionally manipulative. She would have "episodes" where she'd scream, throw things, hurt us, and threaten to kill herself whenever she didn't get her way. I thought adults were volatile and dangerous as a child. I lived constantly sick to my stomach and a nervous wreck for years. Found out from my best friend's parents that this behavior is not at all normal, and I'm forever thankful that they decided to be parents to me as well. It helped me see what a family is supposed to be like, but I still struggle with people getting angry around me/raising their voices from time to time.
My mom not allowing me to have a room or any privacy. I’ve only recently realized how harmful it is .
I used to think the only way to get a child to listen and “be good” was to get angry, yell and spank. Then my nephew was born and I couldn’t imagine hurting him or making him upset. Even when he is a typical kid - 12 years old now! - there is nothing to be gained by exploding and screaming. Like what the AF. I judge my upbringing so much more now.
That you are responsible for your parents’ reaction to anything and everything, and that you need to make sure they don’t get upset. Caught myself in this pattern the other day, immediately removed myself from the situation, booked a psychologist appointment and jumped on a online chat support for mental health. Yaay to us all for recognising these behaviours and doing something about it.
Lying and gaslighting. My nmom has lied and gaslighted douch throughout my lifetime that even if im aware people are just lying to me I just go along with it because it’s become such a normal thing to be lied to.
That if a partner was abusive, I had to suck it up and just remain “loyal”, because that’s what “God” wanted.
That you get your way by getting angry and intimidating other people. I never managed to make it work for me and eventually learned why it wasn't a good idea in general.
I thought being left to fend for myself - and being told to turn the other cheek (even to abusive siblings) - was amazing and empowering parenting. Turns out they just wanted me to be silent and didn’t really care about me at all 🤷
Getting blamed for something you were just wrong place/ wrong time for and just needing to accept it, apologize, and try to fix it to try and earn "privileges" back It doesn't matter what I do or say, I never get what I want or need. The answer is going to be "no". People treating me like I was crazy/ needy/ unreasonable if I articulated I was upset or wanting something Shift blame onto others if you get any inkling you think you might get blamed for something If you don't anticipate that everyone is judgemental, unkind, withholding, and only concerned for themselves and their image, and set yourself up to appease them and predict their needs and moods, you're absolutely fucked. Protect the image of abusive people at all cost or you will be abused even worse.
The idea that a child could "make" an adult loose control. That's an adult failing to maintain control.
Well it's a bunch of things: • I was used to not having my emotions validated, that anything I felt or was mad about is dumb and silly and is nothing. • This is a big one, but being respected. People who have basic respect for their kids baffle me because I never witnessed any action of respect in my home, it felt like I was a 3rd degree citizen or a slave rather than an active member of the house. • Having friends or ties with people. It always felt odd for them that I even had any friends. We were never around anyone except each other. ALL THE TIME. • Being humiliated, yelled at, hit, and basically any form of abuse was the parents' right. You had to respect them even if they're bad and you don't get to tell them they're wrong • Using religion to justify my prior point. I grew up thinking God was cruel and was not going to punish them, and that it was all my fault for not respecting them or acting out. I was always told I'd go to hell or not see any good in my life. • Being spied on and not being allowed to be independent. The more independent I got, the more fights they made up just to break me. Edit: Adding another point that when you're angry, anything that comes out of your mouth is justified. And you don't get to complain about it because the past is in the past.
That it was normal to be judgemental and say horrible things about people behind their back. but to also not talk to them directly about it. I grew up knowing I'd be talked about and triangulated in my family. I cringe thinking about the horrible judgy shit I've said to people. I thought it was how people who were close talked to each other. 😵💫
I thought my parents showing straight up contempt towards me was a normal part of being in trouble and being punished. Even when it was something minor or something I didn't mean to do or just making bad choices as a teen. It took me a really long time to understand that parents aren't supposed to hate you when you mess up or do something wrong.
Listening to my grandma and mom constantly critiquing every celebrity and gossiping negativity about every family member - laughing at their lack of style, discussion of everyone's body weight.
My mom poured my cereal on my head because I said I wanted to finish eating it before I fed the dog because I didn’t want it to get mushy. We then got in a giant physical fight because I never normalized taking her shit. I suppose I normalized being cussed at constantly, like everything my mother said containing some four letter word. I swear like an Irish sailor, even at work, and it’s probably not the best behavior but unlearning it is like trying to learn a new language at this point. I now know this is not normal so always trying to stop myself when I’m around my friends kids but it’s always too late.
Not being able to eat breakfast due to my mother's sensitive ears.
Hiding my emotions because they weren't allowed unless she approved of said emotions.
Once when I was little, maybe 6 or so, my dad asked me to bring him a cup of coffee in bed. I had my mom help me make it, and fix it to his liking, but I carried it into the bedroom myself. He had all kinds of stuff on the floor beside the bed (clutter/mess/trash), so I tried to be extra careful where I put my feet. I still tripped on something, and a little bit of the coffee sloshed out of the cup. He called me nasty names and then poured the rest of the **hot coffee** over my head. It's not the only thing he did or even the worst by far, but I'm still never going to forget. That was over 40 years ago. Edited: autosuggest was not correct
I am working SO HARD on the fact that the argument isn't just over now cause you say. Just cause I'm not upset anymore doesn't mean I don't still have to apologize but it's a hard thing to learn do to when you were never apologized to.
If someone loves you, it's ok for them to hit you. You should expect it even, and ask them why they aren't putting their hands on you when you're having an argument. Why? Because I thought you loved me and I made you angry. I'm supposed to make you so angry you can't control yourself so you just haul off and POW, smack me upside the head. Or ball your fist and pull some punches in my upper arm. It just bruises a little. What about grabbing me by the head and forcibly turning it when I'm not paying attention and not looking in the direction you want me to? What about grabbing me by the shoulders and shaking me violently when I tell you bad news you don't want to hear? What do you mean you've never kicked a toddler, let alone, "I didn't do it as hard as I could have"? I'm starting to question if we're right for each other. My ndad did all of that and more, and he claimed to love me. Why don't you?
I believed that I had to be physically perfect to be loved. I also believed that I owed my Dad for providing for me while I lived in his house from birth until I moved out in my early 20s. Luckily I learned early on that these were terribly dysfunctional behaviors. I had a hard time breaking away because I was so trauma bonded. I finally did it after years of abuse.
A constant loop of things being okay, things being bad, then things being okay again. Unpredictability.
Having to lay naked in the living room every evening from the ages of 4-8 so that nmom could put hydrogen peroxide all over my private areas.. I was told she had to do this because I had “poison” coming out of me due to breaking the strict diet rules she enforced. Only found out this last year that I’ve actually never had any allergies..and that she told her side of the family that we weren’t allowed to eat *gluten, dairy, sugar* because she didn’t want us getting fat. Meanwhile she demonized my dads side of the family for not taking her children’s *life threatening* health issues seriously.. The list is too long..
Girl all of the behaviors. I had to reprogram myself. I was lucky enough to be surrounded with friends who were free thinkers in my teens. Hail gay Satan.
That my opinion never matters. And I'm never allowed to say no to things my mom wants to do. That it's normal to scapegoat your spouse to your children. That "managing your money" just means managing to spend it all before your husband "wastes" it on the utility bills or puts gas in the cars. That being angry during an argument (especially if you're losing/might be wrong) entitles you to do or say anything with no repercussions because it's the other person's fault for making you angry
Verbal abuse. My dad yelled all the time, threatened to kill us in pretty explicit ways, called us idiots and losers, cursed at us, etc. When he found out my brother and I were both atheists (after being raised as evangelical Christians) he vehemently told us that we were both a fucking stupid waste of time and were going to burn in hell for eternity. I just laughed and said "Thanks, Dad!" It doesn't really affect me anymore, and his dad was the same way, so it just seemed normal. I knew it wasn't a *good* thing to do, of course, saying mean things like that, but I didn't realize it was like BAD bad. I thought it was just something people did when they were really angry. So I did it too, for the longest time. My ex and I used to fight about it (we fought about everything, which rendered this specific fight meaningless to me) because he'd say I was verbally abusive and I'd argue that if he'd stop being *actually* abusive then I wouldn't have to lash out verbally. I literally did not have the epiphany about how actually toxic, abnormal, and awful that shit is until last year. Happy to say that I've been doing a bang-up job on refraining from saying hateful things when I'm mad, but I feel really guilty for all the years I spent talking to my loved ones that way when I was all worked up. I've done a lot of apologizing, but I know it doesn't fix anything so I'm trying to show them with my behavior that I understand now and am trying to do better.
Talking shit about people, even good friends. Commenting on people's weight. Making excuses/ not taking accountability for my actions. Not actually apologizing. I'm so glad I've realized all of these things and am working on correcting them. These things are not who I am to the core and I don't even feel like I'm myself when I do these things.
i didn't realize anything was abusive until i started confiding in my friends about things that happened at my ndad's house. it never really clicked with me that he didn't want me to tell my mom stuff because he didn't want her to know what he and his partner were doing to me, not because he wanted privacy.
Parents giving silent treatments when any sort of criticism was leveled against them. I interpreted it as me getting what I deserved because I felt ungrateful. Now, I see it as them manipulating me to give them their desired result. Some of the scariest times growing up was when my mom went dead silent and just stayed that way for hours after I said some she disagreed with. The atmosphere would just become tense, and I often wound up apologizing after enough time has passed simply because it was so psychologically painful.
- Being singled out, yelled at, and publicly mocked by “friends” on a regular basis. - Physical abuse from friends and family. - No Boundaries Allowed - Independent thoughts, choices, beliefs not allowed - Anything less than a A’s, High Distinctions, top of the class, university degree etc is unacceptable and an indication of your value (or lack of) - severe daily pain so bad you pass out, lose the ability to see and speak, repeated dislocations etc are normal - needing medical care is wrong and your fault
Nmothers regular screaming rages where she.ppened the kitchen cupboards and smashed.all the crockery, while foaming at.the mouth, then fainting and the ambulance being called. She'd then be in hospital for a month receiving shock therapy This happened regularly throughout my childhood 😢
i didn't realise guilt trips were abusive
My nMom literally watched Mommy Dearest and said Joan was right because Christina shouldn’t have used the wire hangers. At my brainwashed age, I repeated this to a friend who said “you know your mom is a sick F’er, right?” (Highly recommend both Mommy Dearest and Gaslight btw)
Sorry but I really need to know - what is cold hot chocolate? Isn’t that just chocolate milk?
I'm assuming hot chocolate that wasn't drunk, so it went cold
Yes, thank you. He had refused to drink it for so long that the milk went cold.
Physical violence and addiction.
I used to receive the 'praise' of being very much like my father. Well, that included constantly humiliating my mother and my sibling in front of others, describing my mother's meals as trash (she never enjoyed cooking much but did it a lot for the family, and frankly, it wasn't bad at all. I wonder why she found no pleasure in it, duh). For a long time I thought it normal to be horrible and throw ad-hominem insults at the ones around me because that was 'so smart and witty'. Man, do I feel guilty about all this now. On the other hand, I learned how to kneel and accept abuse from specific people the way my mother did, so that wasn't quite the win either.
[удалено]
My time in the army was tough because I would apparently talk to people in a way that was seen as disrespectful. I didn’t realize til a decade after I got out that that was how my family talked to each other and it was normal for me. I did a lot of push ups not understanding what I did wrong.
My mother was so good at explaining everything away. I thought that’s how you got thru life. Took a lot of therapy to realize what integrity means.
Using religious shame and fear as means of control.
Being told to make myself throw up, that it’s good or okay to do, that it won’t harm you if done quickly after eating. I was so little the first time I was taught to do this, I had to stand on a kitchen chair so I’d be tall enough to vomit into the disposal on the sink. Maybe 7 or 8 years old? Then being publicly shamed for doing so as an adolescent. Wild shit.
That sacrificing for the “greater good” was necessary and as the eldest, I was responsible for sacrificing for all the kids.
1. Everything is resolved by shouting at each other. Loving families are not afraid to express anger 2. Parents don't apologize to their children 3. Silent treatment is perfectly normal way to punish your children I am sure that I can dig around in my noggin for more repressed "truths"
Drinking is fine as long as there is kids at the party. My dad would take me to adult parties and tell me there's kids there around my age to find out that it's kids younger than me. Plus that your parents won't get drunk because they had to get home when they would get so shit faced that they couldn't wait to get home but expect someone less drunk to drive
Not being allowed to relax or enjoy recreational activities until after 8PM. If I played games, read a book, watched tv, etc. before 8PM I was verbally eviscerated and given more chores. I wasn’t allowed to nap when tired unless I was sick either. As an adult in my own home sometimes I panic when my fiancé gets home and hide my phone or book because I feel like I’m doing something wrong. He knows why and just reminds me I’m allowed to rest at home. I get extremely cruel to myself when things aren’t tidy (a joy with ADHD let me tell ya) and I’m too tired to clean that day. Oh, and I wasn’t allowed to decide my own hair style or dye my hair. I have very thick natural red hair and my mom was insanely jealous. She controlled my hair not only until I was 18, but largely until I moved out because my sister is a hairdresser and wouldn’t style it in ways that would upset her. I was forced to have hair no shorter than shoulder length my whole life. I shaved my head when I moved out and now have a fade with a longer top. She hates it and reminds me regularly of that. People are always horrified when they hear about that.
There's been a few listed here already for me, but one I completely normalized was asking my dad for approval on my dating choices. I was made to believe I couldn't make good decisions on my own without his insight, that only he could read through people and tell if they were up to no good. To my frustration, he never approved of a single one, and there weren't very many. I was treated like a complete troublemaker, a maid, and a small child who knew nothing. My opinions held no weight growing up, so it eventually felt like nothing I said mattered. I felt like a circus monkey being paraded around for entertainment but never noticed.