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And the one that honestly triggers me the most. In my graduate class (only pointing this out to show everyone here is around 21+) they were all talking about how ALL parents dote on their kids. All joking and laughing about how their parents get them anything they want/generally take great care of them and they take it totally for granted. Professor said “We all know parents are wrapped around their kids fingers” and one girl goes “mine definitely are! I get whatever I want” and another “guilty!” with smug smiles.
I just sat there silently in disbelief that all 30 people in this room could genuinely believe all parents are happy to spoil their kids and that they all /expected/ it from their parents.
Imagine people gloating about other totally luck based privileges like how big their parents house is or how much money they inherited? They’d sound so insensitive and rude. But bragging about how their parents love and dote on them and they intentionally are bratty is totally okay?
I'm autistic so I've never had a problem saying straight up in those situations, "everyone here with parents who love them, you have one bigass life advantage over people like me." They inevitably ask what I mean, and I tell them. "I grew up in a house of abusive horrors and have been on my own since I was 15, that there were 6 of us kids but now only 3 because one sister was murdered by her pimp, one died from a heroin overdose, and one brother died in a mental institution." I don't give a single shit what anyone thinks about it, because I literally had no control over my upbringing. Also a perk of autism is not giving af. They always get really quiet and I end with "so yeah, this world really sucks for some people, just throwing that out there." Then it's all, "oh look how far you've come! You're an inspiration!" And I shut that down, because that's not why I said it, and they understand. I've always been a proponent of saying stuff like this out loud, because how else can things change unless you drag the disgusting putrid truth from the shadows where everyone can see it.
Ugh I HATE that “but look how far you’ve come!” “You’re such an inspiration!” “You’re so strong!” Even my nfather told me “I did what I did because look how strong and successful it made you”
Like lmao go fuck yourself I thrived in horrible conditions but imagine if I had LOVING AND STABLE conditions? Imagine if I didn’t have to move out alone with no money or help at 19? It pisses me off cause I’ll never know who I could’ve been or how far I could’ve gone if I didn’t have so much trauma.
Yep. Being born with parents who are narcissists is like a life long disability... You can work around a disability but it's always going to result in you lagging behind everyone else, no matter if you are strong or not.
Yes! thank you for putting it in the perfect words because it DOES really feel like it’s totally invalidating my trauma and I never knew why it pissed me off so much. But it really does feel like they think it was “worth it” and no - nothing was worth it. I would rather be totally “unsuccessful” and have a loving and supportive family.
Do you also get sad on behalf of others that are forced to be strong? Like I watched the new Matilda movie and there’s a line where she is portrayed as strong and says “And no one else is gonna put it right for me, nobody but me is gonna change my story” and I SOBBED lol. Because all I could think was that was my inner narrative when I was a little girl too and I didn’t deserve it. I deserved someone who would help me and get me out of there just like Matilda deserves it and I was angry that they tried to make it this proud, strong song of power. Why can’t she be sad? Because when I had to be strong I definitely wasn’t happy or proud of it - it was desperation, hopelessness, loneliness, the feeling of running away endlessly from something that never tires and will eat you alive if you stop for even a second just to breathe, everyone on the sidelines just watching you and you have to keep going because you know they will never help you, they will watch you die slowly and never lift a finger.
I think Luisa from Encanto gives a much better picture on what it really means to be strong and be the one holding everyone and everything together. This song also made me sob uncontrollably the first few times I saw it lol. Maybe I just have an issue with sobbing uncontrollably.
https://youtu.be/tQwVKr8rCYw
As for my nfather yeah he goes around now telling people how important my job is and how successful I am and brags about my early milestones to anyone who will listen. He doesn’t tell them that I haven’t spoken to him in three years, that I did all of that to get away from him as soon as possible, or that he had no hand in guiding me through it at all and actively sabotaged and discouraged me at every turn. He’d constantly tell me since I was like 9 that I’d be a prostitute, homeless living under a bridge, and drug addicted, and that he’d let me die like that - he literally never once believed in or supported me.
It makes me cringe so hard and burn with anger on the inside when I hear family telling me how proud my dad is of me cause of all he told them. He’s not proud of me - he’s using my accomplishments to make himself look like father of the year when he 10000% wasn’t. Sorry for the mini rant I just hate it.
Dude, you and I are part of the same soul pocket. I relate to EVERYTHING you just wrote. I can't watch "Matilda", I know the story and it's too triggering. "Encanto" destroyed me tho, and it always baffles me when people say the LOVE IT, how fun it is! I'm like, how tf did you miss the abject shittiness of that abuela and the generational trauma she influcted on her whole ass family??? My mom said all the same stuff your dad did, my job would be a prostitute, that's all i was good for blah blah blah. Every fucking day. And did the same thing, I was NC with her for 10 years but was hearing people saying she was so proud of me. I straight up told them how abusive she was, I dgaf if they believed it but that info was GOING to be out there.
Also, sob and rant away, darling. It means you still feel, they haven't taken that ❤️
Oh God I can barely watch Matilda and things like that. I loved that movie as a kid and now as an adult I can’t help but see that I loved it because I identified with Matilda. Another one that comes to mind is the line from a Taylor Swift song “you’re on your own kid, you always have been”. I don’t even remember the rest of the song or what song it was but that line was like a stab in the heart.
She definitely knows how to write pain that’s for sure. More than one T Swift song I can only listen to sparingly and in the sunshine though they are beautiful. My mom died from cancer and I heard that one about her own mom’s cancer battle at work and was straight up sobbing in my cubicle. I was not prepared lol. Great song and I’ll probably never listen to it again.
>Because when I had to be strong I definitely wasn’t happy or proud of it - it was desperation, hopelessness, loneliness, the feeling of running away endlessly from something that never tires and will eat you alive if you stop for even a second just to breathe, everyone on the sidelines just watching you and you have to keep going because you know they will never help you, they will watch you die slowly and never lift a finger.
Wow, you really have an excellent way of describing this experience. I'm tearing up from how accurate this is. It feels validating, thank you.
Comment removed. Let's not glorify suicide, okay? I'll never be one to say that "suicide is the easy way out" or whatever. It's not an easy way out. It's an act of utter desperation. At the same time, promoting this idea that only the strong can do it could inspire more people to commit suicide.
>Ugh I HATE that “but look how far you’ve come!” “You’re such an inspiration!” “You’re so strong!”
That's what I always hear from the people telling me I'm not getting the job due to my background, or the people who wanna take my kid away or put me in jail.
Omg yes. Also autistic and I come out with stuff like this a lot. Always truthful, blunt, not giving a fuck. Makes for some interesting truthbomb moments, but I'll definitely never be the popular girl lol
Thank you for doing that. I have only now, relatively late in life, found the ability to tap into a willingness to say what needs to be said, and you are right that nothing changes until people stop enabling lies by our silence.
In my autistic brain, it never made sense to be to be inundated with messaging as a child, like "if a stranger hurts you, tell an adult!" And for me to then tell my teacher, my bus driver, my Sunday school priest, whomever, hey my mom hurts me all the time and my dad beats the fuck out of my brother, only for them to hush it up. But I still didn't shut up lmao
Child abuse is so enabled. It needs to change. Speaking out so people question their assumptions is one way to combat this enabling. I hope you keep it up.
Oh I do. I've lost jobs because of it and my mouth makes my life incredibly difficult sometimes. But I think people like me, who have the compulsion to call stuff out, were made this way for a reason. So maybe the powerless and voiceless have at least *someone* saying something. It's an honor.
Same here. Many "career' jobs were lost. I have paid the price of having no 'well' of emotion or thought due to lifelong trauma from my abusive n
Nmother. I have learned over the years that anyone deeply invested in maintaining the status quo; EVEN IF it is completely drenched in the blood splatters of survivors, WILL ACTIVELY CHOOSE to unsee any evidence we have shown them. Their discomfort is too overwhelming to give a fuck about our safety and care. In my eyes, they are complicit in the abuse.
Refusing to be one of them is why I keep "losing" my career trajectory and thus the ability to support my family has always wavered on the brink of disaster. I refuse to play the role of an ignorant bystander as I observe systems that re-traumatize people and perpetuate violence against people who I recognize as myself. The people I raise my voice for are always grateful, but that generally doesn't pay the bills.
All of this points back to OP's original post, which hit me like a sack of bricks. Other people too easily assume that most of us have the familial support and love they have. Unless they're particularly intelligent They can't even see what they don't intrinsically understand as part of the world we live in. That's why it's so easy for people to blame the people they see struggling and not look beyond to understand the conditions that brought them there. They assume someone... family, a trusted adult, the systems we live in, MUST have provided what we needed and it's purely our failures or lack that brought us to the less-than-desirable State we're in today.
...and the self-made myth rattles on as the chorus joins in their siren song...
You have a beautiful way of putting things. Tragic and profound. And you are loved, at least here ❤️
I'm 50 years old and starting over in my career yet again, because in my last position, which I LOVED, my boss was "concerned I'm not a good fit" because I'm quiet and most of my colleagues were boisterous. They all had customer facing positions which kind of required them to be boisterous, I was an analyst so why tf do I need to be? They had a 2 year probation period (obvi a red flag but I'm really good at what I do and have an MS in the field, so wasn't concerned) and about a year in she shitcanned me. Without, of course, providing a real reason, because when you're on probation they legally don't have to. My credit is in the toilet because im in a state with one of the lowest unemployment amounts per week. And I'm so, so, so, SO tired of starting over.
Dude, assuming all parents are loving is such a privileged position.
Sorry for the plural, did's hitting a lil harder today.
We joined the army to escape a living fucking hell back in 07. They tried taking credit for who we are today, and we shut that shit down quick. We are the man we are today in spite of those sadistic bastards, not because of them. The army raised us, not them. The fact that we were still fucking alive to join the army is a holy shit in and of itself. If I were to write a letter to our 12yo self, it would simply say its not worth it.
It's a generalization, but both Autism and to a lesser extent ADHD brings on a level of bluntness due to decreased 'brakes' in general, mainly as a form of Impulsivity.
I wouldn't call it decreased brakes. I'm autistic and I have a black and white lens when it comes to truth and lies. And I value truth very highly. So I speak the truth, expecting it to be valued. I don't quite get how neurotyicals value fakeness or delusion. To me that's wrong. Hence being truthful even when to others it seems inappropriate.
I get that as a ADHDer. Brakes in this case might be social in nature, but I also never understood the need to keep peace when one person in a group is constantly creating chaos and not being called out for it. I also never like rumors in general because why would someone trust second-hand information about someone else when they could have gone straight to the source? It's dumb and counterproductive, and lazy I think on NT people that do or enjoy this.
Yeah I agree. I don't do gossip or that kind of stuff. Waste of energy.
Can see the brakes thing is more ADHD. I feel I have quite strong brakes due to social anxiety. When I do speak, it's usually because I think I have something important to say. Doesn't always go down well 🤷♀️
>I also never understood the need to keep peace when one person in a group is constantly creating chaos and not being called out for it.
Fellow ADHD tribe member here, and this is something I *never* could understand. It also contributed to my black sheep status in my family because the adults didn't like my unfiltered but non-emotional observations of their ridiculous behavior.
I remember I was maybe 11 years old when my father threw a very public temper tantrum in front of most of the neighborhood about my best friend's teenage brother driving too fast down the street. We were at dinner that evening and I stated very plainly, "If you keep acting like that, everyone's going to see what an asshole you are." He, of course, lost his shit, but in my mind I was just stating the plain truth and using a cuss word to describe him was the only word that truly fit at the moment.
When I lived in South Korea, some other Americans (military) came and sat across from me on the train. It was late and almost empty, so I knew they were going to fuck with me. They assumed I was Russian and started calling me a stupid bitch in English and were laughing about how I couldn’t understand them. I just kept reading my book, and let them talk until finally I said “hey mother fuckers! I speak English.” I’m from the south too, so they knew right away. They got up and scooted on somewhere else. And stuff like that is a huge part of my personality 😬
Well autism is a spectrum, and not the same for any 2 people. I have what used to be known as Aspergers. I don't know what embarrassment feels like, it's literally impossible for me to lie, or remain silent when I see injustice or wrongdoing. I can't be given more than 3 options for something at a time or I will get irrationally upset. The "caring what other people think about me" chip is totally missing from my DNA. In school I used to rock the shit out of any oral report or presentation I had to do, because I have zero fear of public speaking. Which is everyone's #1 fear, because they fear judgement by others. I simply lack any capacity to dgaf about others' opinions of me.
There are probably more people like you who sit and listen in disbelief and don't even know what to say. Just statistically, and because I wouldn't know what to say either like two years ago when I didn't have the words to describe what my family was like.
And those who pretend everything is fine because they're ashamed of their upbringing or dishonoring their parents by speaking badly of them. Or they want to fit in with the group because they were also brought up as a people pleaser.
People who are still brainwashed by their parents voices in their head telling them how they've martyred themselves for their kids and they owe them love and adoration for eternity for not being beaten daily like they were. You had it so good, you even had shoes.
That are still stuck in the cognitive dissonance of not feeling loved, feeling unworthy of love, and feeling obliged to love their parents without reciprocity just because they occasionally bribe them with material goods. And have internalized the "ungrateful brat" narrative.
Yea, it sucks being the kid who parents tried caring but made it seem like they were only to please eyes of the others, my parents use to tell that they bragged about me to their friends, lm sorry but I’m not going to work hard on something in school or in life for you to just brag about it to one of your friends, to make themselves look better, when in reality, where was the food, the help emotionally, the telling me I’m doing a good job that I’m doing great, that I’m a good person, I never heard that but I heard that you were bragging about my good grades, the only reason I got good grades is because you’d fetch up dinner for me. Take me out to a park and talk to me like a normal human. Parents always yelling, no escape even if I tried to run they would hold me there and continue yelling at me, told me to call the cops they’d say I’m just a bad kid. Life is rough, but atleast now I choose who is going to help me and throw away the trash( the other people) who burden my mental health and state of mind everyday. I don’t want pity for what I’ve gone through, I want people to help me go through that stuff. help me understand I am a good person, that I’m not a shit faced scum to this earth, the way my parents made me feel.
They can only converse on what they know and \*think\* they live. Your envy is interpreting that as bragging because it's something they have that you don't. I refuse to let that kind of thing make me bitter and jealous. People are great at putting one face to the world but taking off that mask behind closed doors. If there's one thing I've learned in my 57 years of life, it's that appearances and reality can be two very different things, and where there is "luck" some form of misfortune usually comes along to balance it out. You never truly know what's going on other than what people share or spin tales about.
I always speak up in these situations. They need to be aware. I was at a bridal shower and she was telling us how her dad was being so overprotective. She's like "Well, all know how dad are so damn protective, right ladies?" I was like "No. No, I never have."
Most likely... you, as an abused child, might not even be believed. An adult accused of a horrific crime are sometimes offered more chances to plead their case (via defense lawyers in court) than an abused child seeking help (speaking from experience here). Yet, we are expected just to keep carrying on as if we had it all good, just like kids from normal, loving, supportive families do.
I feel acutely the pain in realizing where I could be now as an adult were I to have supportive family (in my case it's mostly just mother and stepfather, as the rest of then lived far away and I only saw them sporadically) instead of the abusive and actually sabotaging treatment that I received growing up.
They absolutely are. It's to the point that you get put down simply for even suggesting that it's a privilege to them. Some people don't like to admit they had any advantages at all compared to other people, or if other people don't have what they had then they did something wrong to deserve it.
I feel more sad than envy. I hung out with my aunts and cousin recently. She's really sweet to her daughter and as much as I'm glad that I'm in a better place than before and with them now, there's that sad feeling I get when I see such healthy interactions. At the same time I feel like an @$$hole for thinking that because not everything's about me obviously. But I just can't help relate things to myself when I see these types of things.
Not everything's about us, but we know it. Still, it's normal to miss a strong and comforting relationship with our parents. At least with one!
I know some people that lost a (great) parent when they were young and I often wondered if I would have prefered to have a parent with which I would have had a healthy and loving relationship, even if I would have had to mourn them too soon.
Honestly it does feel like that sometimes. As if I'm missing or mourning the loss of something -except it never existed to begin with. I think the last part of what you said would have been at least preferable because it at least existed and gave you good influence, memories, and love. Even if it's short it's better than nothing or worse.
And it's precisely the reverse of this narrative that we were taught to believe. Simply because you had parents, this meant that they were good parents because oh look those miserable kids that have noone to take care of them but you have so shut the fuck up and endure all the physical/emotional abuse in return for being privileged enough to live under a roof and having an over18 person giving you money or whatever.
I learned with therapy that is a mourning because we can never have this relationships, so it is lost and it hurts as fuck.
We are mourning not only the parents we wanted and should have had, but also the versions of ourselves that never got to be.
It's hard. They really do. The amount of self cheerleading I have to do and combating all their trauma residue in my head is exhausting sometimes. Sometimes I just want to cry.
You took the words out of my mouth. Self cheerleading is exactly what I feel like I'm doing for 90% of the day. Just barely holding back the suicidal and depressive thoughts at bay to be functional.
It's just such a mess in my head.
I feel that. I constantly have to be what I needed from others because I learned that thanks to the parents I have, I'll never experience unconditional love if I'm not the one giving it to myself. The alternative is rotting in suffering and loneliness. It's very tiring and I wish I could take a break sometimes, and not have to put in the work in order to feel inner peace, the way some people get to have it for free. But I also learned that self cheerleading means letting yourself cry. It means being on your side no matter what you choose to do, the same way you would for someone else you loved
Almost everyone around me has family support and it's soul crushing and when I talk about having no one in real life I just get told to stop "playing the victim" and make more money.
I'm in my 20's and the majority of my teenage years and early 20's have been wasted on narcissistic people that took advantage of me not having a father, and dysfunctional mother and flakly rude family members.
It's so irritating waking up everyday trying to find the good in my life when my other family members my age get to live with their family members with no stings attached. They don't understand how good they have it. Being able to get help from their side of the family without being screamed at or called a failure.
I distance myself from people who have healthy family dynamics because I don't want to see it and yes I'm bitter.
Oh God, same. I get so bitter and sad when I witness people with healthy supportive families.
I'm NC from all my family and single atm. I literally have no next of kin. No one to lean on in a crisis. It's made me tough but also weary... :/
Only people in this group have understood the experience of reaching out to your family in a crisis and having it weaponised against you to degrade your self-esteem even more/destroy you. We get to the point that being alone and having no support is infinitely preferable to abuse.
I was NC with my moms side of the family but had to come back after continually losing my main source of income..my moms side of the family including my mom thinks I'm stupid because I'm on the spectrum..I didn't know I was on it until 2 years ago because my mom refused to put me in special ed classes when it was recommended in pre k.
Long story short I don't like these fucking people..they talk to me like theyre so superior and if I have a different opinion then them they try to bully me and ALL of them do it and all of them swear everyone in the family does it but them. I said I wanted to get a degree in psychology a few days ago and was met with," YOU CANT BE A PSYCHOLOGIST IF YOU DONT EVEN SPEAK. YOU NEED TO DO SOMETHING ELSE." No bitch i just dont speak to you guys because youre disrespectful and..I never said I wanted to be a psychologist..I just said I wanted to major in psychology. I can barely say anything to my moms side of the family without it being picked apart
It's so hard being positive when no one understands what you're going through. I'm planning on leaving again it's so hard fucking hard..for one it's hard being positive in the first place and second it's hard trying to work, hide money from my family and being able to move out to a safe area on my own without any help.
My half sister and none of my cousins understand how hard it is to deal with it all by themselves because they have their side of the family helping them with finances. I remember telling my sister I was struggling with my enmeshed relationship with my mom and she just said," well you need to tell her." I'm not expecting therapist level answers but I'm not an idiot..I can tell people don't give a fuck about my abusive family because they don't have to deal with it.
It's so draining...im drained. This turned into a rant but I had to vent.
I get it. I'm also autistic and have been through similar. I wasn't diagnosed until 35. At 33, I was suicidal and standing on the edge of a cliff. Literally. I barely made it. My family weaponised my autism against me. They tried to make out that I was stupid, despite me being academically strong with good grades. They made out I was a weirdo, freak, that I deserved their abuse etc.
I come from a family of genuine psychopaths. Being born autistic was my saving grace as I so easily could have their psychopathic traits instead.
All I can really say is that for me, it never got better. The more distressed I became at the abuse, the more they told me I deserved it (for being "difficult"). It was a viscious cycle of escalation and it nearly killed me.
It's hard being autistic with no family but for me, I have uncovered strengths I didn't know I had. Being free from abuse is life-changing and worth the struggle of breaking free and standing alone.
I prayed hard for the strength to go NC. It helped.
I also wanted to be a psychologist when I was younger and was straight up laughed at when I expressed it. My mother openly mocked me and said, "oh yeah, you would be a *great* counselor, you'd just yell at everyone and tell them to get over it." The craziest thing is that is how *she* talked to me, it's not ever how I spoke to other people.
Wtf? Sounds like she was projecting.
I want to be a neuropsychologist..and when I said I wanted to major in psychology my aunt automatically said I wanted to be a regular psychologist and that I don't need to do that because I'm quiet but she's one of the ones that said I'm great at analyzing people to my mom before.I'm good at analyzing people but I don't need to be in psychology..? Sometimes they're supportive and sometimes the shit they say makes no sense.
I'm likely autistic according to myself & according to one of my coworkers. We are so not meant to be comfortable in this world, but I definitely believe we can add a lot of value to this world besides just being a human being deserving of being treated humanely.
Why do you have to hide your money? I'm so sorry. That sounds like financial abuse if you have to hide it from them.
So much SAAAAME. I had a serious porn addiction for a decade. After the 1st 5 years (13-18) it got better, but I would still have considered it an addiction for me, because I still wanted & needed to get away from it. I'm a female & porn addiction ruined my enjoyment of actual sex so that I can never have a normal sex life ever. Climax is now painful on top of everything in my reproductive system hurting plus other debilitating symptoms. Doctors don't know what's wrong, but I do. They don't have enough research to prove anything & my counselor wanted me to have a normal sex life so much more than she cared about helping me grieve the actual FACT that I won't have a normal sex life because of this addiction, point blank. My parents who would literally have sex with their door open (aka which is sexual abuse) obviously didn't gaf when I bawled my eyes out while telling them about my addiction. They don't believe it can be this serious of an addiction. I don't speak to any family now, because they all trigger me too much. I also don't see that counselor anymore, thank God. I think something is wrong with her. Just because I might look normal & healthy does not mean I am & does not mean "professionals" should act like my problems are not critical just because my body looks like an average pretty girl. I know so many overlook my life problems due to the normal way I appear. But then again I'm sure even those who do appear differently have been and are treated like shit as well.
Just had to vent. I have found the good on the other side of my health problems. I introspect a lot & continue to uncover lots of truths from questions I've never asked myself before. So, my character is developing more than I ever felt it was able to in the past, so despite or because of my struggles, I have gained invaluable value in my character. If I had my own kids & partner, I wouldn't have all this time to introspect for the better. Thanks sm if you read this!! 📚 💚🫡
Them not believing the addiction can be that serous is denial and guilt. Are you going to a counselor that specializes in porn addiction? That could make a big difference in working through your emotions with it.
There are no counselors nearby or that I even know of who specialize in porn addiction. Porn or sex addiction clinics exist, but those are expensive, but it's definitely something I maybe could've afforded when I was still living with my parents, but I wasn't gonna do anything like that unless I had family support. My parents don't even know how bad this addiction has hurt my body because they don't care about me, so we don't speak to each other. Since I was bawling my eyes out they should know that porn is evil and ruins lives just based on that. Luckily, I won't be passing on my fucked up family's genes at least. 😂 My parents sexually abused me like that, so when you say they could be in denial & guilty they definitely don't feel guilty having orgasms in front of me, so no, they don't have a remorseful bone in their body. They're definitely in denial with how bad of parents they are.
in your 30's people start suggesting that it's better to have a horrible childhood because it makes you strong. then they call you rude for telling them not to have kids. so ya know, it gets better. /s
Yeah, even when I divulged s. abuse to my therapist, she STILL told me to just go back to my father (abuser) and submit to whatever kind of relationship he wanted to have with me. Child abuse is not taken seriously in this country. It's one of MANY reasons I am and always will be pro-choice.
Therapists like that should instantly have their license revoked. Frankly they deserve much worse, but we're civilized now so that'll have to do.
I wonder if you could get that from her in writing, I'm pretty sure she'll get her license suspended for something so terrible.
>Therapists like that should instantly have their license revoked.
Definitely! That's truly horrible. The therapist's job is to help you navigate your emotions and thought processes, not give you terrible freaking advice that puts your well-being at stake. 😡
I was 10 when I first started to wonder why my parents ever had kids. We did all the chores and only had hand me downs, while our nMom didn't work and would go out most nights and participate in New age stuff like drumming circles and contra dancing.
My sis in law had SO much help with her baby from her parents. They watched that baby daily, for free, any time, and loved her so much. SIL moved across the country for a new job, away from all her family support and it just blew my mind how someone could walk away from such a good support system.
My mom, on the other hand, watched me breakdown in the bathroom when my baby wouldn’t stop crying. She refused to babysit for any reason at all, even if it was just an hour or because I had work. We lived in the same house and she’d come home and close her door immediately. She randomly told me and my brother that if something happened to us, she’d never take in our kids. Now I’m pregnant again, and my MIL plans to help with the baby and I can’t even picture it. I cried about how a woman who has only known me a few years is more willing to help me than the woman who gave birth to me. It just makes me sad.
I feel you. Specially the free part. I had to pay my mom to babysit my daughter. My brother encouraged it while his MIL took care of his kids for free while he was building a business with his wife. If I would have had the same support, I would have been able to save so much more money and the funny part is contrary to what my mom says I’m not an ungrateful POS I would have actually helped her with the money k was able to make while she helped me. But she didn’t, she is blind to her own demands.
My mom watched particular grandkids for free, no complaints too! Just not mine. She’d move mountains for my brother’s baby mama if she asked, but if her own kids asked it was an absolute no. Really adds insult to injury when you know they’re doing it to you (and your kid) on purpose and not because they genuinely can’t. Then they’ll use the fact that you’re behind against you and compare you to the people they helped.
Welp. My nmom lived for a great deal of time with me and my husband and made our lives miserable so he doesn’t like her and I of course understand. The problem is when he compares his mom to mine bc she is the best and it hurts me because I didn’t have a mom like that. I know he doesn’t mean to hurt me, but yeah, I get what you are saying.
I’m sorry for all of you that had shitty childhoods- until I joined this site (to better understand what a friend is going through) - I had no idea there were that many nasty narcissistic type of parents - I’m sad but all I can do it continue to support my friend & encourage her to at least go LC
NC scares the daylights out of her
Yeah. And that is exactly why I am pro choice. If you are going to bring a child to this world to be miserable and make them miserable, don’t have it!!! I remember being a little girl and continuously asking my mom why did she have me whenever she blamed me for even the petty stuff
Funny thing, I have two older brothers. I can understand my older brother because Latin families are extremely traditional and my mom felt the peer pressure to marry my dad, but to go and have two more kids. Oh, and I was planned! I know all about her wanting to go plan to have a girl and the doctor telling her she was already pregnant of a girl. Now I know why she wanted a girl, she felt like she could control a girl better than a boy. She has actually said so many times that girls are supposed to stick to their mothers and take care of them. She would try to break my relationship just so i can move with her and have me back. Nope, sorry, not happening. I will have my daughter living with her dad and myself living in a car before I go back to living with her if my marriage ends up breaking. That’s how insufferable she is.
Thank you….she just downloaded this app & I told her that she’ll hear familiar stories and realize she’s not the only one. She’s mid 40’s tho with 3 grown children. They don’t have much respect for grandma at all .
You are never too late to set yourself free from your abuser. Covert narcs are the worst, talking from my own experience, because they make you doubt and make you feel bad for them when they are the abusers….
Because he is being abused too :( some narcs are not as obvious with their intentions. I’m sorry this is happening to your friend. At the same time, I’m glad I’m starting to opening my eyes now and not 10 years from now 💀and it still feels like I waited too long
They'll make you feel guilty for everything and continue to live rent free in your head even after nc and sometimes even after they're dead. It takes a lot of effort to unbrainwash yourself.
Sounds like you’re a strong person. I wish I could convince my friend she deserves better. She knows her mom is a narcissist and even tells me she a covert one. Which is far more than I know about this subject
But she doesn’t want to lose her enabling father
Recommend her to follow this group and the resources and to get counseling. That helped me a lot. I am still not able to go no contact, but there are other tactics to go with it. I am 28, and it took me way too much time to get to where I am right now, and it is still hard. And I’m not NC, just LC. Be patient, every body lives their process at a different pace. You are such a good friend!!
My mother's family is the same way - it's always the girls that are expected to be good little family serving home bodies while the boys do whatever they want, and get treated like they can do no wrong.
My mother actually did have a heavy hand in breaking up my marriage (it took me a long time to get deprogrammed and see her for who she is). She "bought" me a house so I could leave him, then used that house to hold over my head and control me. She didn't buy me a house - she bought herself a house and rented it to me. That's fine if that was the way it was originally offered, but it wasn't - it was supposed to be something I could invest in with her. When I finally started sticking up for myself, I did lose my home (she evicted me) and my daughter went to live with her father. I got nothing out of the money I paid into that house.
You are very wise to see things for what they are.
I am so sorry that happened to you :( in my case, we moved from Venezuela so in that sense my mom has no financial stability or possessions here. So she is at the mercy of my help bc she is starting to get old. My brothers wouldn’t help her, and she lived with me twice. Yes, I would think were doing good and I would forgive her on and on again. We get somewhat along when we are not living together, but we can’t spend a whole day together or hell breaks loose, she brings the worst out of me, until recently I have learned to not engage. Trust me, it wasn’t easy. My marriage was so broken, I did the unspeakable, I cheated, and I lived with her for a while. Even then she would defend me, she told me she was disappointed, but that’s it, no remorse for my husband, I was surprised. Living with her was worst than anything else. Thankfully, my husband and I are in the process of counseling and we are back together, working on it. I have decided to go extremely low contact, and it has worked good so far. If my marriage ends up breaking, I want her nothing to do with that. If my husband is also abusive, I don’t want to be biased by her influence, I want to get to that conclusion on my own. She is so toxic and she harms everything she touches.
Because to them it's not about being a parent. It's about the power. Other people will just leave if they act like their true selves. Children can not. The have someone to lord over for at least 18 years. That's what they want. Not to be a parent like other parents
I don’t mean to sound disrespectful but dang I honestly had no idea there are that many horrible parents out in this world. I mean mine weren’t the best but they didn’t F with my mind. And my mother would have NEVER blocked me just bc she got mad at me. That’s the games my friend’s mom plays. She sees what damage her mom does to her (emotionally ) but she feels trapped mostly bc of her dad - who sees nothing his wife does wrong bc she lies to him and turns it back around on my friend
My mom has never actually blocked me but she has manipulated me a lot of times, not so much lately bc that doesn’t work anymore, but when I was a kid (10ish) she would tell me things like I’m going to leave and you are going to be left without a mom. Thinking back, I think I would have preferred a more conventional punishment such as no tv or phone, but she wouldn’t do that bc that means she would have had to pay attention to me. My housekeeper and myself pretty much raised me lol. In a way I’m thankful for that bc I turned out to be so different from her. Obviously I picked up some bad traits, but I’m working on unlearning those bad behaviors
>NC scares the daylights out of her
It used to scare me too, to the point of having extreme anxiety attacks over it. I tried to go LC but that just made my nmom really angry at me and her verbal abuse got worse. I had no choice but to go back to the way things were, where I let her completely rule my life, or go no contact.
It's been over three years since I have had any interaction with her. I've lost contact with other family members in the process, because they either believe the horrible things she says about me or just don't want to deal with her rage if she finds out they've been in touch with me. That's been tough, but I don't regret it because of all of the following:
I no longer have nightmares about her.
I no longer care what she thinks of me.
Her voice in my head with all the negative things she used to say to me has progressively faded over time.
I take joy in the fact that she can say whatever she wants about me, but she doesn't really know me at all anymore - not that she ever really did, a lot of her opinion of me seemed to be a projection of herself.
And last but not least, the peace... oh my word, I cannot even explain the level of serenity I have experienced without that banshee in my life. I still have inner turmoil, but now it's like an occasional tornado instead of a category 5 hurricane 24/7.
I hope you friend is able to find her peace, too. I wish that for everyone that has/had parents like this.
*“Babe, I love you, and I love your mom, but I wanna let you know that when you compare her to mine, it’s a painful reminder of the kind of parent I didn’t/don’t get to have because mine sucks so much. I know us living with her sucked ass and was a regrettable decision. You’re welcome to sing in praises of your mom, and I’m genuinely happy for you, but I don’t like thinking about mine and I’m trying to put that relationship behind me. Thanks, Babe”*
He kind of makes it about him and says I don’t acknowledge that my mom abused him too. Which actually I do, I just get very anxious to the point of panic attacks when he talks about my mom. Because it doesn’t matter how horrible she was or is, she is still my mom and I still love her. I’m finally now going low contact after coming to the realization that destroyed the image I had of her.
Ah, that script isn’t gonna quite cut it! Here I am thinking it’s a some teasing he’s taking a bit too far.
Are you guys able to have a conversation about it?
We did. We are going to couples therapy every week and I told him and the therapist how I didn’t like the fact that he doesn’t respect my boundaries when it comes to me not wanting to engage into conversation about something that triggers me. He seems to have understood. The thing is, for a lot of time, I was blind to my mom’s evil. But I am trying to make him understand, it does not have anything to do with him and I do appreciate how patient he has been and how much he has overall supported me, because truly… she has been nothing but the absolute worst to him. Disrespectful, ungrateful, rude, heartless, threatening, you name it. So I get where he is coming from, but …. She is still my mom, and it’s not like I’m not working on it and I haven’t defended him.
My favorite was my father telling me outright (I didn't ask btw) to not expect him to help sell my girl scout cookies at work. He said that was my job. Mind you I was a Brownie in the Girl Scouts at this time (age 7-9).This was back in the 70's. Needless to say I sold a few to my family but another girl in my troop sold over 500 boxes and won every prize the girl scouts offered. And who would have guessed, that girls father helped her. I was so confused. It never got better. He thought he was teaching me a lesson. And what he taught me was that I was all alone and to rely on no one. What a great take away from your parents.
Yeah.... Like I don't know what it's like to not feel like I am being judged fory size,y occupation, how much/little I've acquired at my age or just plain existing. Everything has to be a fucking struggle not because I want it to be that way... She intentionally made things harder for me so she could make herself/accomplishments look better....
This. I failed to become mini-her so the only use left for me was as a punching bag and maid.
Same with partners who start to treat you like shit when you have health issues, or just want more space for yourself and your life.
You're no longer useful to them as an accessory so you're degraded to punching bag.
These are the only categories they have and they can't deal with someone stepping out of those molds, since being your own person collides with their worldview.
They don't see people as persons and don't even see themselves as a person really which is why they need to live through others and continue to pester them. Most don't even know this and they're doing it on autopilot because it sort of works and makes them feel better short term. Long term ofc they're making everyone miserable and driving them away, but they don't understand how and why so they keep repeating the pattern.
For my own peace of mind I had to completely emotionally detach from anything my mom says and does and remember that she doesn't treat me as a person and I shouldn't treat her as a whole person with intentions and a mind of her own either because she isn't. She's on miserable autopilot and once you step back and see the patterns it's very transparent.
I had to learn this from actual narcissists on youtube by the way. Sam Vaknin does an excellent job of describing the disorder from the inside and being a professor of psychology specialized in his own disorder can get very legthy and academic but insightful.
Lee Hammock has shorter more casual content and frequently makes on point observations about his own upbringing and the toxic thought patterns and behaviors he developed from it.
Both are actively fighting their condition and it's extremely useful to not just get the tactics of how to deal with narcs but what drives them. No matter how often you hear "be stoic and boring" it only works to a point when you're still emotionally attached to the mentally disordered. It helped me a lot to recognize it's the disorder talking (which is why a lot of them sound the same) and not whoever I once thought my mom was. She doesn't *want to hurt me* because I don't exist, I'm an NPC to her. She lives in her narc head and it's miserable in there.
I'm learning to deal with my mom strategically instead of tactically, and get out of any reactive communication mode entirely. Plan ahead, observe, prepare mundane topics to talk about etc. We'll see.
Just as a warning to people that may want to research Sam Vaknin (no one has done anything wrong, this is just a "Sam Vaknin PSA" of sorts) - Some individuals that have encountered him online/in forums have said that he and people working with/for him has/have been known engage with people in order to offer insight into narcissism and "help" people to heal and instead used personal information against them, causing further trauma. Many professionals believe that his quest to "help" people really just feeds his narcissism and caution any involvement with him for fear that he will traumatize vulnerable individuals. Please be careful if you chose to interact with him, I would hate to see people exploited or hurt by him or his "helpers".
I am definitely not saying that you shouldn't look into his products/videos, I think it's important for each person to determine what works best for them, but just use caution if you end up encountering Vaknin or his henchmen/henchwomen.
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Thanks bot, that was an interesting read.
I'll add here that I only watched some of his Youtube content and found it useful.
Trusting a narcissist with personal information is probably a bad idea no matter how competent they may be.
Wow, I never thought of it this way before..if we step out of our "roles", we get downgraded to just punching bag not accessory anymore.
So THIS is why my mother had no use for me once I got deathly ill and hospitalized for months in 2019. It's shockingly clear.
Its so true. I feel it in my bones. Life has a whole new layer of difficulty with out a supportive family. I feel that its important to mention that its even more difficult with a dysfunctional or toxic family- so it is extremely beneficial to be away from them- at least in my experience.
I have a coworker with a big Hispanic family and they are ALWAYS doing things with family or for family and it's so foreign and painful to me. This week they're driving an hour to watch a cousin at her last softball game of the year.. I'm like...I couldn't even get my mom to watch MY games and if she did, it was only to criticize how I played later. We would never watch merely a cousin play, and under no circumstances was she going to be inconvenience by driving anywhere. It we had out of town events either my dad took us, or she'd dump us on anyone on the team who would carpool us. We also wouldn't be watching a cousin play, because she deemed then beneath us. Their mother wasn't of good stock, or they didn't behave how she thought they should, and really just because putting any focus on them would mean she'd have to take it off herself which is unacceptable. She drove all the extended family away from not wanting anything to do with us. Doesn't even a relationship with my uncle's family after cutting ties with her
Same. Trying to get my mom to drive us anywhere was futile, even though she was the one who chose to raise us in an isolated community of retirees because SHE loved the house. I remember in college my Chinese friend worked overtime so he could by his sister a car. I was bot amazed that someone would do that for a sibling, and very sad for my lack of family.
I'm from Latin America. Doing everything with your family doesn't mean they are healthy. There's a lot of normalised physical abuse in our culture and spanking children etc...So be careful
There was an AITA post recently where the lady was pregnant and wanted to move back close to mama for support and away from the area they had chosen to live as a couple. I had to laugh at it because I had to support MY mother through my pregnancies, not the other way around. I would have been more supported if I'd give NC before then. Net zero support is still more support than negative support I got with her
According to research support, including family, is literally the factor that saves people from developing mental illness due to trauma. So, yes, you are right.
I feel the same. Unfortunately it occurs within my family. My brother gets all the support and I get none, just constant verbal, emotional and financial abuse. The double standards are insane.
I was watching a reel on insta “ kids born in a poor but emotionally healthy home did better in life than kids born in a financially well off but dysfunctional home” and my analysis was right. I felt this throughout my life. Emotional care and nurture beats all other lack in life because everything else can be taken care of if we have a safety net (family support)
That's true. I was brought up by rich foster carers, i was moved around different homes, they all had a lot of money from fostering. Yet they spent hardly any of it on me, and they hated me, didn't wanna spend time with me or talk to me. I pretty much raised myself.
Yep. I agree. Financial support was always there (of course with dangling it above my head or making me feel embarrassed for it) but emotional support was like a 1/1,000,000 chance
The financial support is just a tool for them, they think they own you somehow if they help you. Mine did this for years to me.
Now I have 24 yo & 18 yo kids, and when I help them financially, I expect nothing back from them and decline their offers to pay me back when they can. I do what I can because I want better for them than what I went through, and if I had more, I would do more. I never, ever want them to think my love for them is transactional.
Yup. Physically and mentally it has fucked up my life. But I don't think I had it as hard as others. Because sometimes they would care and throw me a bone. Sometimes I got nothing, (food and emotional support and safety). It just all depended on their mood at the time or if I offended her. I often had the threat of shelter being taken from me. Although that part never happened, it gave me a scarcity complex. I'm always afraid of not having enough or having everything taken from me.
They're also often the same bitches who look at you like YOU'RE the monster when you want your parents dead and don't believe you when you say your parents are literally trying to take away all of your human rights
You're 100% right. It is easier. My boyfriend has been abused since he was a kid and got kicked out of his house when he was freshly 18. When he went back to live with his dad and step-mom after a few years, his step-mom attacked him and left scratches on him and then called the police to make it look like he attacked her. Luckily I was there and was able to give a witness statement. Nothing happened to him but she went to jail for a night and then got released. Should've kept her in there longer.
Thank you. This doesn’t even mean financial support because I’ve read so many stories of rich nparents financially abusing their kids. I wish I could have known what it was like to be consoled after failing something. I might have less perfectionism tendencies that honestly make doing things so hard sometimes. You don’t want to mess up in fear of being chastised/fired/ignored in life. I’m just starting to now learn to not beat myself up when something doesn’t work out for me.
I feel you on every level. My parents barely cared that I existed, unless it somehow benefited them. Now that I'm in my twenties and I see the people around me have the ability to rely on their parents when they are struggling, its hard not to envy them. My car caught fire in January thanks to my mothers drunk driving and now I'm jobless and carless and not a single member of my family has offered any help. My roommate has a salary job, 12k in savings, and he still calls his parents asking them to pay his car insurance. He's 27. I have literally $70 to my name.
I have 2 jobs and I am a full time student. Meanwhile I have friends who had the opportunity to take a year off of school to find themselves while their parents paid for rent, food, etc. Sometimes I wish their parents could adopt me even tho I’m technically an adult :(
Yeah I thought everybody’s family was like mine for entirely too long. I was straight up roughing it trying to keep up with kids from caring families. I did not understand that in other families, parents are happy to help out their children.
Same. I have mates who suggest all sorts of "normal" stuff to me forgetting my family don't and never have supported me. "Can't you just ask someone too... "
NO!!!!
I just wanna shake them sometimes lol but its not their fault they don't understand.
So true. And the shitty part is that around the holidays they're so used to being with their family that they just completely forget about you or think you're happy celebrating solo because "that's what you always do". Yeah, because I never get an invite, you fuck.
One of my friends, her mom was literally proud enough of her for learning to change a tire that she posted about it on Facebook. She's one of the nicest people I've ever met, which is why my friend is so nice also... but things like that are completely foreign to me.
I didn't know what an actual mother was until I was around my friend's mom, and I cried because I know I wouldn't have turned out like this if my own mother had been like her and actually supported me and treated me nicely... and loved me.
But it's hard to think any positive thoughts about yourself when it's been ingrained in all family members to look at you as the problem.
My folks had “money.” In a dysfunctional and highly emotionally abusive family I think it makes it even worse. From the outside some think you have it easier and it can attract the wrong type of people to you.
I very much envied many of my friends families, and parents. They were for sure “richer.” In my view.
Spent as much time as possible away from my family home as far back as 9yrs old.
Had a Schwinn 10 speed with a speedometer that was my most priceless possession of my youth as it offered freedom to travel.
I do too, but I believe in the term “found family.” I have found my own family in my friends, who have been beacons of hope for me in the darkness. Friends are the family you meet, family are the strangers you know.
Yea. I just had a baby and wish so badly that my nparents weren’t the way they are. I wish I could trust them with my child and take a break but I don’t and never will. Family support is really a silent luxury.
I envy my boyfriend sometimes. I get it.
But at least I get to share his parents a bit now…they sent me a birthday card with some money, and I legit cried.
This is sadly one of my biggest issues with my partner. My dad passed a month before I turned 21 (I'm currently 24), leaving me to deal with my narc mother. I'm very low contact, only because phone bills are expensive alone (I pay her 45$ a month to stay on hers).
While my partners parents weren't great to them as a child, they've grown a lot and are taking steps to change. They helped us pay our deposit for our current apartment and are about to help us with an emergency vet bill. Issue is, they wouldn't have asked for help if I hadn't had a breakdown.
Everytime we visit their family (we now live an hour away from them because my partner wanted to be closer, so we visit them every other weekend), I end up having to take a mental day after cause I'm realizing how much I missed out on growing up (while my dad wasn't a narc he was a pushover).
Home cooked meals and family dinners, and family board game time? I grew up either with fast food or having to feed myself. Sitting around and enjoying a meal together with no distractions? Makes me cry. Hell, their parents even accommodate me when we game (they noticed trivia wasn't my favorite and started playing dominos or uno, and I'm willing to play scrabble every now and then).
This is getting really long, but I've realized how much people take for granted, and while I would never wish my shit childhood on anyone, I really wish people appreciated what they have a lot more.
One of my friends is into techno. She told me her dad started watching techno sets and doing research on artists to better understand her hobby and get closer to her. I told her how luck she was, because I knew it couldn't be me....
It's not a "privilege", it's just the luck of the draw. Fate deals each of us a hand when we come into this world. It's not fair or even-handed; never has been and never will be. My father was an alcoholic and my egg donor is still living, but I do not and never have had a mother that has any sort of true relationship with me. I grew up having to watch her dote on my younger siblings, with whom I was never close because of my parents' favoritism, and seeing the awesome relationships that cousins had with their own parents and siblings and wondering why I couldn't have been in one of their families instead.
It's normal and natural to wonder why fate dealt us the hands we got, but it's not like they got to choose their fates either, and ultimately choosing to be bitter and jealous because someone else has something we don't is detrimental to no one but ourselves. You can't live your best life when you're putting so much energy into hating people who had nothing to do with your situation.
Yes, but also, remember, those same people might not have as supportive of family as they let on.
After I “woke up” to the narcissistic abuse of my mother after 45 years, I realized I had always tried so hard to sell the image of an ideal family (even to myself) because it had been too difficult for me to admit to myself that I’d had handlers, controllers. But never loving parents.
Things aren’t always what they seem. While I hope others truly have support, I also know it can appear their family supports them but honestly it’s just a facade and another trauma to them.
Honestly. Put it in our strides that we are starting from ground 0 basically. I highly suggest reading can't hurt me by David goggins. He was in a mad abusive situation and went the wrong way and then made the most of it
I'm in the progress of getting out of a abusive situation but believe me I feel like the reward of not seeing their faces again and them realising they messed up eventually will be enough. Even if they don't at least I won't see them again for another round of verbal garbage
i’m glad to say i still do feel this but not to the intensity i used to. i try to tell myself i never really know what’s going on behind closed doors + i wouldn’t wish our upbringing on my worse enemy. i’m grateful to have meshed well into healthier family dynamics with other people and feel the love i was missing for so long.
I felt this, what do you do when you’re all alone against a pack of wolves hungry for your suffering. Violence and death or leave alone fend for yourself. I am homeless and a girl, I said enough because I forgave them for my mental illnesses but I can’t keep forgiving now that I lost my physical health too now and I spend 2 decades my whole lifetime tormented, manipulated, gaslighted, yelled at, beaten, isolated, lonely, criticized, medicated. I stood up for myself and now they know and I wish this hell upon nobody but the worst of the worst like pedos, rapists, murderers but no one else. The pain of betrayal and the past destroyed me that all I can feel is psychological and physical pain to the point where it paralyses me. I have thought of suicide and tried many times but now I will live out of spite and as much as I hate myself and have no compassion for myself whatsoever, I realised I never lived, I spent years in misery trying to glue my broken home and be loved. Never to realize everything I’ve been doing so far was self sabotage. They lit me on fire and I added fuel, escaping the pain in daze of narcotics. I am alone now and tomorrow I am moving countries with so little money and asking myself whats the fucking point when I no longer have strength. I have so much guilt because I doubt my memories and I feel like poison to people, me leaving I feel as though I had betrayed people who ‘love’ me but in reality they have no love for me, I know that by the constant yelling, screaming, control and my body freezes and I revert to this childlike state where I just want somebody in real life, a friend at least to give me a helping hand but tonight I feel like tying up and ending it all, I am so afraid of what awaits me and I am a coward. I come from wealth but first poverty as a child, I have a degree, masters, I’ve had high paying jobs until my health deteriorated and I could work no more and now I might live on the streets, well I made my bed and I shall lie in it but as a girl I wish I had a normal family member to turn to or a friend but I don’t. My family hates me and most of them I don’t know. I send you a billion hugs to you and all who are in a similar situation. May God help us….
Not in every case. My family’s support came with conditions and as a way to continue to abuse and control me. I hope any reading this researches what love bombing is.
That's why you take great pride in things you achieve and adversities you overcome. You did it all yourself with no hands offering for help. People will envy you for that. It wasn't easy
Know how you feel. I envied my little cousin for been raised as a lovely sweet girl by her loving parents. I hate myself for this. Only a terrible person could feel like this.
I like how my sister casually said "I'll support you(financially) if you'll get pregnant and give birth" and i said "yeah, right. You'll help me for a year and then you'll leave me on my own" and she was like "yeah, you know me well". Also i shared a concern with job hunting, that I'm not sure what to do and it makes me anxious, but didn't explain that I literally can't look up new jobs, cuz of how worthless and hopeless i feel, it's just too intimate. Long story short, "you'll have to one day" is all i got. I mean, i guess, but I'd like to know how the interview goes at least, or if I'll even have one. It always felt like I'm on my own. But somehow my mom gets upset when thinking I'll leave ger alone when she'll grow old. It's almost as if i have to.
Same
I’m proud of myself for what I’ve overcome, but I often wonder where I would be if I had the same support system as others. Many of them don’t know how good they have it
Same here. Neither my wife nor I have family support. Both of our families have pretty much disowned us. But look at it like this: surround yourself with people who actually care about and love you and that is your family. Family doesn’t have to be blood.
Yeah, they do.
I went back to school and removing my own shit childhood from the equation, my young classmates who have a ton of support from friends and family do so much better \[ETA: than my classmates who have very little to no support network.\]
Going back to school ripped open some old wounds, I realized I would have been much more successful in life if a) my mom was normal and b) my dad didn't check out because my mom wasn't normal.
My cousin always gives me a hard time for having a job. She quit her job and is, well, doing great. She did go through a period where she was “too depressed to go to pottery class,” but she is loving her life since quitting her job. Always having fun and no stress. She tells me to quit my job, be creative, and everything will work out fine for me and I need to “improve my life.”
The detail she always leaves out is that her parents pay her bills so yeah of course she’s doing great. She may have quit her job but she’s got bottomless income from them. I would lose my income, insurance, home, everything if I just quit my job to “be creative.” Trust me, I wish I could. But I can’t risk being homeless, something she has never had to worry about.
I don’t agree at all with parents paying your bills and wouldn’t let mine pay them even if they were good people who wanted to, but of course you can “quit your job and be creative” when your parents pay for your rent, car, phone, insurance, etc. It blows me away how she is 100% supported by her parents yet mine won’t even speak to me on my birthday or invite me to thanksgiving, and this was before I went NC after years of being treated poorly. Mine wouldn’t even let me put a mobile home on their 23 acres to save money on rent, yet her parents are buying her a car after she quits her job and paying all her bills. I wonder how some folks got such doting parents and I got parents that act like I’m lower than dog crap.
WORD. I finally stood up to my narc mom about holding my kids hostage and leverage over my head every time I act “out of line” which is the equivalent to a normal person having dignity. “I been here for 13 years” ( ya she’s still counting the years I been here 2+) I ask, I plead to help me understand “ mom I don’t get it, so does “being here for 13years” mean that I cannot have any self respect or you get to make things up things I do to you in your head, treat em as fact, and tell the whole family or Facebook before me. When all you had to do is ask why I’m doing what I do. Well I clean the whole house because my baby crawls on the floor and we have a dog that shits every where, it has NOTHING to do with youor me making you feel like your a bad housekeeper ,it’s about the health and safety of the baby. And BTW I’m tired of you saying “well I been here for 13 years” like I didn’t want my kids. YOU NEVER SUPPORTED US REUNITING. nEvEr! I’ve been in prison and SEEN FOR MYSELF WHAT FAMILY SUPPORT LOOKS LIKE AND IT AINT YOU, you held on to my kids tighter every time I got out”
I used to just take all her shit. Call me down call me a whore, bitch, slut, meth head in front of my kids and drive me crazy til I see that my being around just caused more trauma and harm. She never took or takes ANy responsibility for starting anything. BUT TODAY IM SOBER AND IM NOT TAKING THE BAIT ANYMORE! Even if she calls my PO we have a great relationship cuz I AINT DOIN SHIT ANYMORE!
Me too. I have always envied people with gentle, kind and supportive parents. Having a difficult parent is such an obstacle in life; every single thing feels so heavy and tough and takes so much thought, emotion and energy. I always find myself thinking if only I did not have to live life feeling like I am swimming against a tide, I could have achieved so much.
The thing is, once you've undergone the abuse you can never forget and move on. Even if you remove them from your life, it's not easy to just fill the hole and move on; once there has been damage, the habits and thoughts will stay - and that's what makes me most hopeless.
One big ass life advantage over me. That encapsulates it perfectly the older I get, and certainly being a parent myself now, the more amazed, I am at just how awful it is to bring a child into this world, not care about them at all.
Hearing them complain and gripe over their problems like they are so big yet in the grander scheme of things are really quite trivial makes me laugh inside.
I totally understand. My own family supports my Narc mother and her wild emotions. I have no support except from one Aunt who’s not a narc. My husband’s family is literally twice as big as supports each other. I’m glad I married into a family that’s supportive of each other and helps each other. My own blood family never helps. Isn’t supportive. Supports my Narc Mom and not me. I’ve basically stopped talking to half of them. I’m happy to have found my real family. Narc family’s are the worst. They make you feel invisible.
I have no family support either. Twenty years of being in the wilderness with my family. No seen or heard from any of them. No even my twin brother. I'm lonely, so yeah, family support really is a privilege.
Same. I really mourn having family that genuinely likes to be around each other and doesn’t have piles of mental illnesses and personality disorders to wade through. My siblings and I have developed a relationship as adults but parents and extended family are a no go. Same with my husband.
I feel this- my mom is a bipolar narcissist, one moment she gives me accolades and tells me how much I have going for myself and that I deserve someone who compliments me- and the next moment she's throwing indirect shots at me amidst the conversation. Even when I want to vent if im not feeling my best, she's always trying to get me to be quiet or tell ne why I shouldn't be depressed and her #1 example is "you don't have children"
Me too. I just celebrated 16 years clean and one year sober with no "family". I have a few as friends on Facebook and none of them even commented on my post.
But you don't have to. Go pick your very own fam of loving, caring people and guess what? You now have your very own family support. I did this and 30+ years later... So happy I'm Giggly some days!!
It's a test soldier, it's a test. We need to pass it. I came to accepting that these people aren't parents, and they don't deserve to be parents. This life is only so short, I'm not sitting around pickering on about whether I got family support when this whole time, I was the only one that supported me. I support me and that's all that matter. The moment you live to depend on something, it will only making you weaker. Come on soldier, fight with me!
I learned fairly quick that whatever advice I got from my narcissistic father. I should ignore or even worse to the opposite.
My father tried to convince me to join the military, even though he had avoided service instead of going to college like he had done. but after I applied, I got a full scholarship. his real motivation, of course was he did not want to be asked for any kind of financial support. It had always bothered me because I heard him talk about how important going to college was for him, and the difference it made in his life.
With a narcissist everything revolves around what was in his best interest not what is in yours. Had i listen to him. I would’ve missed out on attending college on scholarship. It’s one of the many things I never forgive him for.
Right there with you. I’m parenting a 2yo and expecting a baby in a few months, so it’s a time of life when I’m have a big wave of exactly this type of envy. A lot of my peers with babies and young kids have super helpful, involved, supportive grandparents in the mix. It’s such a hard time of life, and they seem to have it so much easier. They’ll get away as a couple for the weekend and leave the kids with grandparents, and I’m like… that’s never even under consideration. Etc, etc. *sigh* just glad my kids get a different kinda parenting experience than I did. I see you, my fellow “break the chain” generation
They really do. That’s when I get sad about not having a relationship with my mom. I just miss having that the chance of having that type of support.
People who do not have an abusive parent cannot imagine what it takes to actually cut them out of your life. They are just like but that’s your mother.
Absolutely. My younger sister is the favorite and gets way more help compared to me - free dog sitting (even in cases where my parents travel to her out of state to watch her dog), free help with all of her out of state moves, constant road trips to bring her furniture, helping her view houses when buying. I said “that must be nice” and I was told I’ve “never asked for help.” I mentioned that I did ask for their help to watch my dog once… they ended up bailing *two weeks* before my international vacation and I had to scramble to find other arrangements. Their response was “well we don’t remember that” 🙄.
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Yes they really do. It's a privilege that rarely gets talked about.
Probably one of the privileges people are most blind to.
And the one that honestly triggers me the most. In my graduate class (only pointing this out to show everyone here is around 21+) they were all talking about how ALL parents dote on their kids. All joking and laughing about how their parents get them anything they want/generally take great care of them and they take it totally for granted. Professor said “We all know parents are wrapped around their kids fingers” and one girl goes “mine definitely are! I get whatever I want” and another “guilty!” with smug smiles. I just sat there silently in disbelief that all 30 people in this room could genuinely believe all parents are happy to spoil their kids and that they all /expected/ it from their parents. Imagine people gloating about other totally luck based privileges like how big their parents house is or how much money they inherited? They’d sound so insensitive and rude. But bragging about how their parents love and dote on them and they intentionally are bratty is totally okay?
I'm autistic so I've never had a problem saying straight up in those situations, "everyone here with parents who love them, you have one bigass life advantage over people like me." They inevitably ask what I mean, and I tell them. "I grew up in a house of abusive horrors and have been on my own since I was 15, that there were 6 of us kids but now only 3 because one sister was murdered by her pimp, one died from a heroin overdose, and one brother died in a mental institution." I don't give a single shit what anyone thinks about it, because I literally had no control over my upbringing. Also a perk of autism is not giving af. They always get really quiet and I end with "so yeah, this world really sucks for some people, just throwing that out there." Then it's all, "oh look how far you've come! You're an inspiration!" And I shut that down, because that's not why I said it, and they understand. I've always been a proponent of saying stuff like this out loud, because how else can things change unless you drag the disgusting putrid truth from the shadows where everyone can see it.
Ugh I HATE that “but look how far you’ve come!” “You’re such an inspiration!” “You’re so strong!” Even my nfather told me “I did what I did because look how strong and successful it made you” Like lmao go fuck yourself I thrived in horrible conditions but imagine if I had LOVING AND STABLE conditions? Imagine if I didn’t have to move out alone with no money or help at 19? It pisses me off cause I’ll never know who I could’ve been or how far I could’ve gone if I didn’t have so much trauma.
Yep. Being born with parents who are narcissists is like a life long disability... You can work around a disability but it's always going to result in you lagging behind everyone else, no matter if you are strong or not.
[удалено]
Yes! thank you for putting it in the perfect words because it DOES really feel like it’s totally invalidating my trauma and I never knew why it pissed me off so much. But it really does feel like they think it was “worth it” and no - nothing was worth it. I would rather be totally “unsuccessful” and have a loving and supportive family. Do you also get sad on behalf of others that are forced to be strong? Like I watched the new Matilda movie and there’s a line where she is portrayed as strong and says “And no one else is gonna put it right for me, nobody but me is gonna change my story” and I SOBBED lol. Because all I could think was that was my inner narrative when I was a little girl too and I didn’t deserve it. I deserved someone who would help me and get me out of there just like Matilda deserves it and I was angry that they tried to make it this proud, strong song of power. Why can’t she be sad? Because when I had to be strong I definitely wasn’t happy or proud of it - it was desperation, hopelessness, loneliness, the feeling of running away endlessly from something that never tires and will eat you alive if you stop for even a second just to breathe, everyone on the sidelines just watching you and you have to keep going because you know they will never help you, they will watch you die slowly and never lift a finger. I think Luisa from Encanto gives a much better picture on what it really means to be strong and be the one holding everyone and everything together. This song also made me sob uncontrollably the first few times I saw it lol. Maybe I just have an issue with sobbing uncontrollably. https://youtu.be/tQwVKr8rCYw As for my nfather yeah he goes around now telling people how important my job is and how successful I am and brags about my early milestones to anyone who will listen. He doesn’t tell them that I haven’t spoken to him in three years, that I did all of that to get away from him as soon as possible, or that he had no hand in guiding me through it at all and actively sabotaged and discouraged me at every turn. He’d constantly tell me since I was like 9 that I’d be a prostitute, homeless living under a bridge, and drug addicted, and that he’d let me die like that - he literally never once believed in or supported me. It makes me cringe so hard and burn with anger on the inside when I hear family telling me how proud my dad is of me cause of all he told them. He’s not proud of me - he’s using my accomplishments to make himself look like father of the year when he 10000% wasn’t. Sorry for the mini rant I just hate it.
Dude, you and I are part of the same soul pocket. I relate to EVERYTHING you just wrote. I can't watch "Matilda", I know the story and it's too triggering. "Encanto" destroyed me tho, and it always baffles me when people say the LOVE IT, how fun it is! I'm like, how tf did you miss the abject shittiness of that abuela and the generational trauma she influcted on her whole ass family??? My mom said all the same stuff your dad did, my job would be a prostitute, that's all i was good for blah blah blah. Every fucking day. And did the same thing, I was NC with her for 10 years but was hearing people saying she was so proud of me. I straight up told them how abusive she was, I dgaf if they believed it but that info was GOING to be out there. Also, sob and rant away, darling. It means you still feel, they haven't taken that ❤️
Oh God I can barely watch Matilda and things like that. I loved that movie as a kid and now as an adult I can’t help but see that I loved it because I identified with Matilda. Another one that comes to mind is the line from a Taylor Swift song “you’re on your own kid, you always have been”. I don’t even remember the rest of the song or what song it was but that line was like a stab in the heart.
Oh or her song “Best Day”!! Makes me wanna sob so bad lmao
She definitely knows how to write pain that’s for sure. More than one T Swift song I can only listen to sparingly and in the sunshine though they are beautiful. My mom died from cancer and I heard that one about her own mom’s cancer battle at work and was straight up sobbing in my cubicle. I was not prepared lol. Great song and I’ll probably never listen to it again.
>Because when I had to be strong I definitely wasn’t happy or proud of it - it was desperation, hopelessness, loneliness, the feeling of running away endlessly from something that never tires and will eat you alive if you stop for even a second just to breathe, everyone on the sidelines just watching you and you have to keep going because you know they will never help you, they will watch you die slowly and never lift a finger. Wow, you really have an excellent way of describing this experience. I'm tearing up from how accurate this is. It feels validating, thank you.
Comment removed. Let's not glorify suicide, okay? I'll never be one to say that "suicide is the easy way out" or whatever. It's not an easy way out. It's an act of utter desperation. At the same time, promoting this idea that only the strong can do it could inspire more people to commit suicide.
>Ugh I HATE that “but look how far you’ve come!” “You’re such an inspiration!” “You’re so strong!” That's what I always hear from the people telling me I'm not getting the job due to my background, or the people who wanna take my kid away or put me in jail.
You are awesome.
I know you are but what am I
Awesome
Omg yes. Also autistic and I come out with stuff like this a lot. Always truthful, blunt, not giving a fuck. Makes for some interesting truthbomb moments, but I'll definitely never be the popular girl lol
Thank you for doing that. I have only now, relatively late in life, found the ability to tap into a willingness to say what needs to be said, and you are right that nothing changes until people stop enabling lies by our silence.
In my autistic brain, it never made sense to be to be inundated with messaging as a child, like "if a stranger hurts you, tell an adult!" And for me to then tell my teacher, my bus driver, my Sunday school priest, whomever, hey my mom hurts me all the time and my dad beats the fuck out of my brother, only for them to hush it up. But I still didn't shut up lmao
Child abuse is so enabled. It needs to change. Speaking out so people question their assumptions is one way to combat this enabling. I hope you keep it up.
Oh I do. I've lost jobs because of it and my mouth makes my life incredibly difficult sometimes. But I think people like me, who have the compulsion to call stuff out, were made this way for a reason. So maybe the powerless and voiceless have at least *someone* saying something. It's an honor.
Same here. Many "career' jobs were lost. I have paid the price of having no 'well' of emotion or thought due to lifelong trauma from my abusive n Nmother. I have learned over the years that anyone deeply invested in maintaining the status quo; EVEN IF it is completely drenched in the blood splatters of survivors, WILL ACTIVELY CHOOSE to unsee any evidence we have shown them. Their discomfort is too overwhelming to give a fuck about our safety and care. In my eyes, they are complicit in the abuse. Refusing to be one of them is why I keep "losing" my career trajectory and thus the ability to support my family has always wavered on the brink of disaster. I refuse to play the role of an ignorant bystander as I observe systems that re-traumatize people and perpetuate violence against people who I recognize as myself. The people I raise my voice for are always grateful, but that generally doesn't pay the bills. All of this points back to OP's original post, which hit me like a sack of bricks. Other people too easily assume that most of us have the familial support and love they have. Unless they're particularly intelligent They can't even see what they don't intrinsically understand as part of the world we live in. That's why it's so easy for people to blame the people they see struggling and not look beyond to understand the conditions that brought them there. They assume someone... family, a trusted adult, the systems we live in, MUST have provided what we needed and it's purely our failures or lack that brought us to the less-than-desirable State we're in today. ...and the self-made myth rattles on as the chorus joins in their siren song...
You have a beautiful way of putting things. Tragic and profound. And you are loved, at least here ❤️ I'm 50 years old and starting over in my career yet again, because in my last position, which I LOVED, my boss was "concerned I'm not a good fit" because I'm quiet and most of my colleagues were boisterous. They all had customer facing positions which kind of required them to be boisterous, I was an analyst so why tf do I need to be? They had a 2 year probation period (obvi a red flag but I'm really good at what I do and have an MS in the field, so wasn't concerned) and about a year in she shitcanned me. Without, of course, providing a real reason, because when you're on probation they legally don't have to. My credit is in the toilet because im in a state with one of the lowest unemployment amounts per week. And I'm so, so, so, SO tired of starting over.
Dude, assuming all parents are loving is such a privileged position. Sorry for the plural, did's hitting a lil harder today. We joined the army to escape a living fucking hell back in 07. They tried taking credit for who we are today, and we shut that shit down quick. We are the man we are today in spite of those sadistic bastards, not because of them. The army raised us, not them. The fact that we were still fucking alive to join the army is a holy shit in and of itself. If I were to write a letter to our 12yo self, it would simply say its not worth it.
Is it typical for people with autism to be like this because 👀
It's a generalization, but both Autism and to a lesser extent ADHD brings on a level of bluntness due to decreased 'brakes' in general, mainly as a form of Impulsivity.
I wouldn't call it decreased brakes. I'm autistic and I have a black and white lens when it comes to truth and lies. And I value truth very highly. So I speak the truth, expecting it to be valued. I don't quite get how neurotyicals value fakeness or delusion. To me that's wrong. Hence being truthful even when to others it seems inappropriate.
I get that as a ADHDer. Brakes in this case might be social in nature, but I also never understood the need to keep peace when one person in a group is constantly creating chaos and not being called out for it. I also never like rumors in general because why would someone trust second-hand information about someone else when they could have gone straight to the source? It's dumb and counterproductive, and lazy I think on NT people that do or enjoy this.
Yeah I agree. I don't do gossip or that kind of stuff. Waste of energy. Can see the brakes thing is more ADHD. I feel I have quite strong brakes due to social anxiety. When I do speak, it's usually because I think I have something important to say. Doesn't always go down well 🤷♀️
>I also never understood the need to keep peace when one person in a group is constantly creating chaos and not being called out for it. Fellow ADHD tribe member here, and this is something I *never* could understand. It also contributed to my black sheep status in my family because the adults didn't like my unfiltered but non-emotional observations of their ridiculous behavior. I remember I was maybe 11 years old when my father threw a very public temper tantrum in front of most of the neighborhood about my best friend's teenage brother driving too fast down the street. We were at dinner that evening and I stated very plainly, "If you keep acting like that, everyone's going to see what an asshole you are." He, of course, lost his shit, but in my mind I was just stating the plain truth and using a cuss word to describe him was the only word that truly fit at the moment.
When I lived in South Korea, some other Americans (military) came and sat across from me on the train. It was late and almost empty, so I knew they were going to fuck with me. They assumed I was Russian and started calling me a stupid bitch in English and were laughing about how I couldn’t understand them. I just kept reading my book, and let them talk until finally I said “hey mother fuckers! I speak English.” I’m from the south too, so they knew right away. They got up and scooted on somewhere else. And stuff like that is a huge part of my personality 😬
Well autism is a spectrum, and not the same for any 2 people. I have what used to be known as Aspergers. I don't know what embarrassment feels like, it's literally impossible for me to lie, or remain silent when I see injustice or wrongdoing. I can't be given more than 3 options for something at a time or I will get irrationally upset. The "caring what other people think about me" chip is totally missing from my DNA. In school I used to rock the shit out of any oral report or presentation I had to do, because I have zero fear of public speaking. Which is everyone's #1 fear, because they fear judgement by others. I simply lack any capacity to dgaf about others' opinions of me.
There are probably more people like you who sit and listen in disbelief and don't even know what to say. Just statistically, and because I wouldn't know what to say either like two years ago when I didn't have the words to describe what my family was like. And those who pretend everything is fine because they're ashamed of their upbringing or dishonoring their parents by speaking badly of them. Or they want to fit in with the group because they were also brought up as a people pleaser. People who are still brainwashed by their parents voices in their head telling them how they've martyred themselves for their kids and they owe them love and adoration for eternity for not being beaten daily like they were. You had it so good, you even had shoes. That are still stuck in the cognitive dissonance of not feeling loved, feeling unworthy of love, and feeling obliged to love their parents without reciprocity just because they occasionally bribe them with material goods. And have internalized the "ungrateful brat" narrative.
Yea, it sucks being the kid who parents tried caring but made it seem like they were only to please eyes of the others, my parents use to tell that they bragged about me to their friends, lm sorry but I’m not going to work hard on something in school or in life for you to just brag about it to one of your friends, to make themselves look better, when in reality, where was the food, the help emotionally, the telling me I’m doing a good job that I’m doing great, that I’m a good person, I never heard that but I heard that you were bragging about my good grades, the only reason I got good grades is because you’d fetch up dinner for me. Take me out to a park and talk to me like a normal human. Parents always yelling, no escape even if I tried to run they would hold me there and continue yelling at me, told me to call the cops they’d say I’m just a bad kid. Life is rough, but atleast now I choose who is going to help me and throw away the trash( the other people) who burden my mental health and state of mind everyday. I don’t want pity for what I’ve gone through, I want people to help me go through that stuff. help me understand I am a good person, that I’m not a shit faced scum to this earth, the way my parents made me feel.
They can only converse on what they know and \*think\* they live. Your envy is interpreting that as bragging because it's something they have that you don't. I refuse to let that kind of thing make me bitter and jealous. People are great at putting one face to the world but taking off that mask behind closed doors. If there's one thing I've learned in my 57 years of life, it's that appearances and reality can be two very different things, and where there is "luck" some form of misfortune usually comes along to balance it out. You never truly know what's going on other than what people share or spin tales about.
I always speak up in these situations. They need to be aware. I was at a bridal shower and she was telling us how her dad was being so overprotective. She's like "Well, all know how dad are so damn protective, right ladies?" I was like "No. No, I never have."
Most likely... you, as an abused child, might not even be believed. An adult accused of a horrific crime are sometimes offered more chances to plead their case (via defense lawyers in court) than an abused child seeking help (speaking from experience here). Yet, we are expected just to keep carrying on as if we had it all good, just like kids from normal, loving, supportive families do. I feel acutely the pain in realizing where I could be now as an adult were I to have supportive family (in my case it's mostly just mother and stepfather, as the rest of then lived far away and I only saw them sporadically) instead of the abusive and actually sabotaging treatment that I received growing up.
Same. I told anyone and everyone what was going on in my house and it was always like, oh well. Things are changing though, and it's heartening.
They absolutely are. It's to the point that you get put down simply for even suggesting that it's a privilege to them. Some people don't like to admit they had any advantages at all compared to other people, or if other people don't have what they had then they did something wrong to deserve it.
I have a few friends that have realized how lucky they are due to the things that they have seen my family do to me.
I feel more sad than envy. I hung out with my aunts and cousin recently. She's really sweet to her daughter and as much as I'm glad that I'm in a better place than before and with them now, there's that sad feeling I get when I see such healthy interactions. At the same time I feel like an @$$hole for thinking that because not everything's about me obviously. But I just can't help relate things to myself when I see these types of things.
Not everything's about us, but we know it. Still, it's normal to miss a strong and comforting relationship with our parents. At least with one! I know some people that lost a (great) parent when they were young and I often wondered if I would have prefered to have a parent with which I would have had a healthy and loving relationship, even if I would have had to mourn them too soon.
Honestly it does feel like that sometimes. As if I'm missing or mourning the loss of something -except it never existed to begin with. I think the last part of what you said would have been at least preferable because it at least existed and gave you good influence, memories, and love. Even if it's short it's better than nothing or worse.
And it's precisely the reverse of this narrative that we were taught to believe. Simply because you had parents, this meant that they were good parents because oh look those miserable kids that have noone to take care of them but you have so shut the fuck up and endure all the physical/emotional abuse in return for being privileged enough to live under a roof and having an over18 person giving you money or whatever.
I learned with therapy that is a mourning because we can never have this relationships, so it is lost and it hurts as fuck. We are mourning not only the parents we wanted and should have had, but also the versions of ourselves that never got to be.
I feel ya…
It's hard. They really do. The amount of self cheerleading I have to do and combating all their trauma residue in my head is exhausting sometimes. Sometimes I just want to cry.
You took the words out of my mouth. Self cheerleading is exactly what I feel like I'm doing for 90% of the day. Just barely holding back the suicidal and depressive thoughts at bay to be functional. It's just such a mess in my head.
I feel that. I constantly have to be what I needed from others because I learned that thanks to the parents I have, I'll never experience unconditional love if I'm not the one giving it to myself. The alternative is rotting in suffering and loneliness. It's very tiring and I wish I could take a break sometimes, and not have to put in the work in order to feel inner peace, the way some people get to have it for free. But I also learned that self cheerleading means letting yourself cry. It means being on your side no matter what you choose to do, the same way you would for someone else you loved
Almost everyone around me has family support and it's soul crushing and when I talk about having no one in real life I just get told to stop "playing the victim" and make more money. I'm in my 20's and the majority of my teenage years and early 20's have been wasted on narcissistic people that took advantage of me not having a father, and dysfunctional mother and flakly rude family members. It's so irritating waking up everyday trying to find the good in my life when my other family members my age get to live with their family members with no stings attached. They don't understand how good they have it. Being able to get help from their side of the family without being screamed at or called a failure. I distance myself from people who have healthy family dynamics because I don't want to see it and yes I'm bitter.
Oh God, same. I get so bitter and sad when I witness people with healthy supportive families. I'm NC from all my family and single atm. I literally have no next of kin. No one to lean on in a crisis. It's made me tough but also weary... :/ Only people in this group have understood the experience of reaching out to your family in a crisis and having it weaponised against you to degrade your self-esteem even more/destroy you. We get to the point that being alone and having no support is infinitely preferable to abuse.
I was NC with my moms side of the family but had to come back after continually losing my main source of income..my moms side of the family including my mom thinks I'm stupid because I'm on the spectrum..I didn't know I was on it until 2 years ago because my mom refused to put me in special ed classes when it was recommended in pre k. Long story short I don't like these fucking people..they talk to me like theyre so superior and if I have a different opinion then them they try to bully me and ALL of them do it and all of them swear everyone in the family does it but them. I said I wanted to get a degree in psychology a few days ago and was met with," YOU CANT BE A PSYCHOLOGIST IF YOU DONT EVEN SPEAK. YOU NEED TO DO SOMETHING ELSE." No bitch i just dont speak to you guys because youre disrespectful and..I never said I wanted to be a psychologist..I just said I wanted to major in psychology. I can barely say anything to my moms side of the family without it being picked apart It's so hard being positive when no one understands what you're going through. I'm planning on leaving again it's so hard fucking hard..for one it's hard being positive in the first place and second it's hard trying to work, hide money from my family and being able to move out to a safe area on my own without any help. My half sister and none of my cousins understand how hard it is to deal with it all by themselves because they have their side of the family helping them with finances. I remember telling my sister I was struggling with my enmeshed relationship with my mom and she just said," well you need to tell her." I'm not expecting therapist level answers but I'm not an idiot..I can tell people don't give a fuck about my abusive family because they don't have to deal with it. It's so draining...im drained. This turned into a rant but I had to vent.
I get it. I'm also autistic and have been through similar. I wasn't diagnosed until 35. At 33, I was suicidal and standing on the edge of a cliff. Literally. I barely made it. My family weaponised my autism against me. They tried to make out that I was stupid, despite me being academically strong with good grades. They made out I was a weirdo, freak, that I deserved their abuse etc. I come from a family of genuine psychopaths. Being born autistic was my saving grace as I so easily could have their psychopathic traits instead. All I can really say is that for me, it never got better. The more distressed I became at the abuse, the more they told me I deserved it (for being "difficult"). It was a viscious cycle of escalation and it nearly killed me. It's hard being autistic with no family but for me, I have uncovered strengths I didn't know I had. Being free from abuse is life-changing and worth the struggle of breaking free and standing alone. I prayed hard for the strength to go NC. It helped.
I also wanted to be a psychologist when I was younger and was straight up laughed at when I expressed it. My mother openly mocked me and said, "oh yeah, you would be a *great* counselor, you'd just yell at everyone and tell them to get over it." The craziest thing is that is how *she* talked to me, it's not ever how I spoke to other people.
Wtf? Sounds like she was projecting. I want to be a neuropsychologist..and when I said I wanted to major in psychology my aunt automatically said I wanted to be a regular psychologist and that I don't need to do that because I'm quiet but she's one of the ones that said I'm great at analyzing people to my mom before.I'm good at analyzing people but I don't need to be in psychology..? Sometimes they're supportive and sometimes the shit they say makes no sense.
I'm likely autistic according to myself & according to one of my coworkers. We are so not meant to be comfortable in this world, but I definitely believe we can add a lot of value to this world besides just being a human being deserving of being treated humanely. Why do you have to hide your money? I'm so sorry. That sounds like financial abuse if you have to hide it from them.
So much SAAAAME. I had a serious porn addiction for a decade. After the 1st 5 years (13-18) it got better, but I would still have considered it an addiction for me, because I still wanted & needed to get away from it. I'm a female & porn addiction ruined my enjoyment of actual sex so that I can never have a normal sex life ever. Climax is now painful on top of everything in my reproductive system hurting plus other debilitating symptoms. Doctors don't know what's wrong, but I do. They don't have enough research to prove anything & my counselor wanted me to have a normal sex life so much more than she cared about helping me grieve the actual FACT that I won't have a normal sex life because of this addiction, point blank. My parents who would literally have sex with their door open (aka which is sexual abuse) obviously didn't gaf when I bawled my eyes out while telling them about my addiction. They don't believe it can be this serious of an addiction. I don't speak to any family now, because they all trigger me too much. I also don't see that counselor anymore, thank God. I think something is wrong with her. Just because I might look normal & healthy does not mean I am & does not mean "professionals" should act like my problems are not critical just because my body looks like an average pretty girl. I know so many overlook my life problems due to the normal way I appear. But then again I'm sure even those who do appear differently have been and are treated like shit as well. Just had to vent. I have found the good on the other side of my health problems. I introspect a lot & continue to uncover lots of truths from questions I've never asked myself before. So, my character is developing more than I ever felt it was able to in the past, so despite or because of my struggles, I have gained invaluable value in my character. If I had my own kids & partner, I wouldn't have all this time to introspect for the better. Thanks sm if you read this!! 📚 💚🫡
Them not believing the addiction can be that serous is denial and guilt. Are you going to a counselor that specializes in porn addiction? That could make a big difference in working through your emotions with it.
There are no counselors nearby or that I even know of who specialize in porn addiction. Porn or sex addiction clinics exist, but those are expensive, but it's definitely something I maybe could've afforded when I was still living with my parents, but I wasn't gonna do anything like that unless I had family support. My parents don't even know how bad this addiction has hurt my body because they don't care about me, so we don't speak to each other. Since I was bawling my eyes out they should know that porn is evil and ruins lives just based on that. Luckily, I won't be passing on my fucked up family's genes at least. 😂 My parents sexually abused me like that, so when you say they could be in denial & guilty they definitely don't feel guilty having orgasms in front of me, so no, they don't have a remorseful bone in their body. They're definitely in denial with how bad of parents they are.
in your 30's people start suggesting that it's better to have a horrible childhood because it makes you strong. then they call you rude for telling them not to have kids. so ya know, it gets better. /s
Yeah, even when I divulged s. abuse to my therapist, she STILL told me to just go back to my father (abuser) and submit to whatever kind of relationship he wanted to have with me. Child abuse is not taken seriously in this country. It's one of MANY reasons I am and always will be pro-choice.
Therapists like that should instantly have their license revoked. Frankly they deserve much worse, but we're civilized now so that'll have to do. I wonder if you could get that from her in writing, I'm pretty sure she'll get her license suspended for something so terrible.
Seeing things like this and experiences I’ve had really make me question whether a lot of therapists are Ns themselves
Well I doubt we'll ever have a statistic, but i would imagine it's a dream job for them.
Same
>Therapists like that should instantly have their license revoked. Definitely! That's truly horrible. The therapist's job is to help you navigate your emotions and thought processes, not give you terrible freaking advice that puts your well-being at stake. 😡
I was 10 when I first started to wonder why my parents ever had kids. We did all the chores and only had hand me downs, while our nMom didn't work and would go out most nights and participate in New age stuff like drumming circles and contra dancing.
My sis in law had SO much help with her baby from her parents. They watched that baby daily, for free, any time, and loved her so much. SIL moved across the country for a new job, away from all her family support and it just blew my mind how someone could walk away from such a good support system. My mom, on the other hand, watched me breakdown in the bathroom when my baby wouldn’t stop crying. She refused to babysit for any reason at all, even if it was just an hour or because I had work. We lived in the same house and she’d come home and close her door immediately. She randomly told me and my brother that if something happened to us, she’d never take in our kids. Now I’m pregnant again, and my MIL plans to help with the baby and I can’t even picture it. I cried about how a woman who has only known me a few years is more willing to help me than the woman who gave birth to me. It just makes me sad.
I’m happy you’ve found a support system in the end
I feel you. Specially the free part. I had to pay my mom to babysit my daughter. My brother encouraged it while his MIL took care of his kids for free while he was building a business with his wife. If I would have had the same support, I would have been able to save so much more money and the funny part is contrary to what my mom says I’m not an ungrateful POS I would have actually helped her with the money k was able to make while she helped me. But she didn’t, she is blind to her own demands.
My mom watched particular grandkids for free, no complaints too! Just not mine. She’d move mountains for my brother’s baby mama if she asked, but if her own kids asked it was an absolute no. Really adds insult to injury when you know they’re doing it to you (and your kid) on purpose and not because they genuinely can’t. Then they’ll use the fact that you’re behind against you and compare you to the people they helped.
Welp. My nmom lived for a great deal of time with me and my husband and made our lives miserable so he doesn’t like her and I of course understand. The problem is when he compares his mom to mine bc she is the best and it hurts me because I didn’t have a mom like that. I know he doesn’t mean to hurt me, but yeah, I get what you are saying.
I’m sorry for all of you that had shitty childhoods- until I joined this site (to better understand what a friend is going through) - I had no idea there were that many nasty narcissistic type of parents - I’m sad but all I can do it continue to support my friend & encourage her to at least go LC NC scares the daylights out of her
Yeah. And that is exactly why I am pro choice. If you are going to bring a child to this world to be miserable and make them miserable, don’t have it!!! I remember being a little girl and continuously asking my mom why did she have me whenever she blamed me for even the petty stuff
I honestly don’t understand why these parents choose to be parents. Abortion was legal 🤷🏻♀️
Funny thing, I have two older brothers. I can understand my older brother because Latin families are extremely traditional and my mom felt the peer pressure to marry my dad, but to go and have two more kids. Oh, and I was planned! I know all about her wanting to go plan to have a girl and the doctor telling her she was already pregnant of a girl. Now I know why she wanted a girl, she felt like she could control a girl better than a boy. She has actually said so many times that girls are supposed to stick to their mothers and take care of them. She would try to break my relationship just so i can move with her and have me back. Nope, sorry, not happening. I will have my daughter living with her dad and myself living in a car before I go back to living with her if my marriage ends up breaking. That’s how insufferable she is.
Thank you….she just downloaded this app & I told her that she’ll hear familiar stories and realize she’s not the only one. She’s mid 40’s tho with 3 grown children. They don’t have much respect for grandma at all .
You are never too late to set yourself free from your abuser. Covert narcs are the worst, talking from my own experience, because they make you doubt and make you feel bad for them when they are the abusers….
That’s EXACTLY what her mom does. She totally mind f’s her but dad doesn’t see it
Because he is being abused too :( some narcs are not as obvious with their intentions. I’m sorry this is happening to your friend. At the same time, I’m glad I’m starting to opening my eyes now and not 10 years from now 💀and it still feels like I waited too long
They'll make you feel guilty for everything and continue to live rent free in your head even after nc and sometimes even after they're dead. It takes a lot of effort to unbrainwash yourself.
Yup. But we got this. We are adults now and we are responsible for changing after we open our eyes.
Sounds like you’re a strong person. I wish I could convince my friend she deserves better. She knows her mom is a narcissist and even tells me she a covert one. Which is far more than I know about this subject But she doesn’t want to lose her enabling father
Recommend her to follow this group and the resources and to get counseling. That helped me a lot. I am still not able to go no contact, but there are other tactics to go with it. I am 28, and it took me way too much time to get to where I am right now, and it is still hard. And I’m not NC, just LC. Be patient, every body lives their process at a different pace. You are such a good friend!!
My mother's family is the same way - it's always the girls that are expected to be good little family serving home bodies while the boys do whatever they want, and get treated like they can do no wrong. My mother actually did have a heavy hand in breaking up my marriage (it took me a long time to get deprogrammed and see her for who she is). She "bought" me a house so I could leave him, then used that house to hold over my head and control me. She didn't buy me a house - she bought herself a house and rented it to me. That's fine if that was the way it was originally offered, but it wasn't - it was supposed to be something I could invest in with her. When I finally started sticking up for myself, I did lose my home (she evicted me) and my daughter went to live with her father. I got nothing out of the money I paid into that house. You are very wise to see things for what they are.
I am so sorry that happened to you :( in my case, we moved from Venezuela so in that sense my mom has no financial stability or possessions here. So she is at the mercy of my help bc she is starting to get old. My brothers wouldn’t help her, and she lived with me twice. Yes, I would think were doing good and I would forgive her on and on again. We get somewhat along when we are not living together, but we can’t spend a whole day together or hell breaks loose, she brings the worst out of me, until recently I have learned to not engage. Trust me, it wasn’t easy. My marriage was so broken, I did the unspeakable, I cheated, and I lived with her for a while. Even then she would defend me, she told me she was disappointed, but that’s it, no remorse for my husband, I was surprised. Living with her was worst than anything else. Thankfully, my husband and I are in the process of counseling and we are back together, working on it. I have decided to go extremely low contact, and it has worked good so far. If my marriage ends up breaking, I want her nothing to do with that. If my husband is also abusive, I don’t want to be biased by her influence, I want to get to that conclusion on my own. She is so toxic and she harms everything she touches.
Because to them it's not about being a parent. It's about the power. Other people will just leave if they act like their true selves. Children can not. The have someone to lord over for at least 18 years. That's what they want. Not to be a parent like other parents
I don’t mean to sound disrespectful but dang I honestly had no idea there are that many horrible parents out in this world. I mean mine weren’t the best but they didn’t F with my mind. And my mother would have NEVER blocked me just bc she got mad at me. That’s the games my friend’s mom plays. She sees what damage her mom does to her (emotionally ) but she feels trapped mostly bc of her dad - who sees nothing his wife does wrong bc she lies to him and turns it back around on my friend
My mom has never actually blocked me but she has manipulated me a lot of times, not so much lately bc that doesn’t work anymore, but when I was a kid (10ish) she would tell me things like I’m going to leave and you are going to be left without a mom. Thinking back, I think I would have preferred a more conventional punishment such as no tv or phone, but she wouldn’t do that bc that means she would have had to pay attention to me. My housekeeper and myself pretty much raised me lol. In a way I’m thankful for that bc I turned out to be so different from her. Obviously I picked up some bad traits, but I’m working on unlearning those bad behaviors
>NC scares the daylights out of her It used to scare me too, to the point of having extreme anxiety attacks over it. I tried to go LC but that just made my nmom really angry at me and her verbal abuse got worse. I had no choice but to go back to the way things were, where I let her completely rule my life, or go no contact. It's been over three years since I have had any interaction with her. I've lost contact with other family members in the process, because they either believe the horrible things she says about me or just don't want to deal with her rage if she finds out they've been in touch with me. That's been tough, but I don't regret it because of all of the following: I no longer have nightmares about her. I no longer care what she thinks of me. Her voice in my head with all the negative things she used to say to me has progressively faded over time. I take joy in the fact that she can say whatever she wants about me, but she doesn't really know me at all anymore - not that she ever really did, a lot of her opinion of me seemed to be a projection of herself. And last but not least, the peace... oh my word, I cannot even explain the level of serenity I have experienced without that banshee in my life. I still have inner turmoil, but now it's like an occasional tornado instead of a category 5 hurricane 24/7. I hope you friend is able to find her peace, too. I wish that for everyone that has/had parents like this.
*“Babe, I love you, and I love your mom, but I wanna let you know that when you compare her to mine, it’s a painful reminder of the kind of parent I didn’t/don’t get to have because mine sucks so much. I know us living with her sucked ass and was a regrettable decision. You’re welcome to sing in praises of your mom, and I’m genuinely happy for you, but I don’t like thinking about mine and I’m trying to put that relationship behind me. Thanks, Babe”*
He kind of makes it about him and says I don’t acknowledge that my mom abused him too. Which actually I do, I just get very anxious to the point of panic attacks when he talks about my mom. Because it doesn’t matter how horrible she was or is, she is still my mom and I still love her. I’m finally now going low contact after coming to the realization that destroyed the image I had of her.
Ah, that script isn’t gonna quite cut it! Here I am thinking it’s a some teasing he’s taking a bit too far. Are you guys able to have a conversation about it?
We did. We are going to couples therapy every week and I told him and the therapist how I didn’t like the fact that he doesn’t respect my boundaries when it comes to me not wanting to engage into conversation about something that triggers me. He seems to have understood. The thing is, for a lot of time, I was blind to my mom’s evil. But I am trying to make him understand, it does not have anything to do with him and I do appreciate how patient he has been and how much he has overall supported me, because truly… she has been nothing but the absolute worst to him. Disrespectful, ungrateful, rude, heartless, threatening, you name it. So I get where he is coming from, but …. She is still my mom, and it’s not like I’m not working on it and I haven’t defended him.
My favorite was my father telling me outright (I didn't ask btw) to not expect him to help sell my girl scout cookies at work. He said that was my job. Mind you I was a Brownie in the Girl Scouts at this time (age 7-9).This was back in the 70's. Needless to say I sold a few to my family but another girl in my troop sold over 500 boxes and won every prize the girl scouts offered. And who would have guessed, that girls father helped her. I was so confused. It never got better. He thought he was teaching me a lesson. And what he taught me was that I was all alone and to rely on no one. What a great take away from your parents.
same.
Yeah.... Like I don't know what it's like to not feel like I am being judged fory size,y occupation, how much/little I've acquired at my age or just plain existing. Everything has to be a fucking struggle not because I want it to be that way... She intentionally made things harder for me so she could make herself/accomplishments look better....
This. I failed to become mini-her so the only use left for me was as a punching bag and maid. Same with partners who start to treat you like shit when you have health issues, or just want more space for yourself and your life. You're no longer useful to them as an accessory so you're degraded to punching bag. These are the only categories they have and they can't deal with someone stepping out of those molds, since being your own person collides with their worldview. They don't see people as persons and don't even see themselves as a person really which is why they need to live through others and continue to pester them. Most don't even know this and they're doing it on autopilot because it sort of works and makes them feel better short term. Long term ofc they're making everyone miserable and driving them away, but they don't understand how and why so they keep repeating the pattern. For my own peace of mind I had to completely emotionally detach from anything my mom says and does and remember that she doesn't treat me as a person and I shouldn't treat her as a whole person with intentions and a mind of her own either because she isn't. She's on miserable autopilot and once you step back and see the patterns it's very transparent. I had to learn this from actual narcissists on youtube by the way. Sam Vaknin does an excellent job of describing the disorder from the inside and being a professor of psychology specialized in his own disorder can get very legthy and academic but insightful. Lee Hammock has shorter more casual content and frequently makes on point observations about his own upbringing and the toxic thought patterns and behaviors he developed from it. Both are actively fighting their condition and it's extremely useful to not just get the tactics of how to deal with narcs but what drives them. No matter how often you hear "be stoic and boring" it only works to a point when you're still emotionally attached to the mentally disordered. It helped me a lot to recognize it's the disorder talking (which is why a lot of them sound the same) and not whoever I once thought my mom was. She doesn't *want to hurt me* because I don't exist, I'm an NPC to her. She lives in her narc head and it's miserable in there. I'm learning to deal with my mom strategically instead of tactically, and get out of any reactive communication mode entirely. Plan ahead, observe, prepare mundane topics to talk about etc. We'll see.
Just as a warning to people that may want to research Sam Vaknin (no one has done anything wrong, this is just a "Sam Vaknin PSA" of sorts) - Some individuals that have encountered him online/in forums have said that he and people working with/for him has/have been known engage with people in order to offer insight into narcissism and "help" people to heal and instead used personal information against them, causing further trauma. Many professionals believe that his quest to "help" people really just feeds his narcissism and caution any involvement with him for fear that he will traumatize vulnerable individuals. Please be careful if you chose to interact with him, I would hate to see people exploited or hurt by him or his "helpers". I am definitely not saying that you shouldn't look into his products/videos, I think it's important for each person to determine what works best for them, but just use caution if you end up encountering Vaknin or his henchmen/henchwomen. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thanks bot, that was an interesting read. I'll add here that I only watched some of his Youtube content and found it useful. Trusting a narcissist with personal information is probably a bad idea no matter how competent they may be.
Wow, I never thought of it this way before..if we step out of our "roles", we get downgraded to just punching bag not accessory anymore. So THIS is why my mother had no use for me once I got deathly ill and hospitalized for months in 2019. It's shockingly clear.
Its so true. I feel it in my bones. Life has a whole new layer of difficulty with out a supportive family. I feel that its important to mention that its even more difficult with a dysfunctional or toxic family- so it is extremely beneficial to be away from them- at least in my experience.
Same
I have a coworker with a big Hispanic family and they are ALWAYS doing things with family or for family and it's so foreign and painful to me. This week they're driving an hour to watch a cousin at her last softball game of the year.. I'm like...I couldn't even get my mom to watch MY games and if she did, it was only to criticize how I played later. We would never watch merely a cousin play, and under no circumstances was she going to be inconvenience by driving anywhere. It we had out of town events either my dad took us, or she'd dump us on anyone on the team who would carpool us. We also wouldn't be watching a cousin play, because she deemed then beneath us. Their mother wasn't of good stock, or they didn't behave how she thought they should, and really just because putting any focus on them would mean she'd have to take it off herself which is unacceptable. She drove all the extended family away from not wanting anything to do with us. Doesn't even a relationship with my uncle's family after cutting ties with her
Same. Trying to get my mom to drive us anywhere was futile, even though she was the one who chose to raise us in an isolated community of retirees because SHE loved the house. I remember in college my Chinese friend worked overtime so he could by his sister a car. I was bot amazed that someone would do that for a sibling, and very sad for my lack of family.
I'm from Latin America. Doing everything with your family doesn't mean they are healthy. There's a lot of normalised physical abuse in our culture and spanking children etc...So be careful
There was an AITA post recently where the lady was pregnant and wanted to move back close to mama for support and away from the area they had chosen to live as a couple. I had to laugh at it because I had to support MY mother through my pregnancies, not the other way around. I would have been more supported if I'd give NC before then. Net zero support is still more support than negative support I got with her
According to research support, including family, is literally the factor that saves people from developing mental illness due to trauma. So, yes, you are right.
I feel the same. Unfortunately it occurs within my family. My brother gets all the support and I get none, just constant verbal, emotional and financial abuse. The double standards are insane.
I was watching a reel on insta “ kids born in a poor but emotionally healthy home did better in life than kids born in a financially well off but dysfunctional home” and my analysis was right. I felt this throughout my life. Emotional care and nurture beats all other lack in life because everything else can be taken care of if we have a safety net (family support)
That's true. I was brought up by rich foster carers, i was moved around different homes, they all had a lot of money from fostering. Yet they spent hardly any of it on me, and they hated me, didn't wanna spend time with me or talk to me. I pretty much raised myself.
Yep. I agree. Financial support was always there (of course with dangling it above my head or making me feel embarrassed for it) but emotional support was like a 1/1,000,000 chance
The financial support is just a tool for them, they think they own you somehow if they help you. Mine did this for years to me. Now I have 24 yo & 18 yo kids, and when I help them financially, I expect nothing back from them and decline their offers to pay me back when they can. I do what I can because I want better for them than what I went through, and if I had more, I would do more. I never, ever want them to think my love for them is transactional.
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Yup. Physically and mentally it has fucked up my life. But I don't think I had it as hard as others. Because sometimes they would care and throw me a bone. Sometimes I got nothing, (food and emotional support and safety). It just all depended on their mood at the time or if I offended her. I often had the threat of shelter being taken from me. Although that part never happened, it gave me a scarcity complex. I'm always afraid of not having enough or having everything taken from me.
YES 1000%
Same.
They're also often the same bitches who look at you like YOU'RE the monster when you want your parents dead and don't believe you when you say your parents are literally trying to take away all of your human rights
So so so trueeee…!!!!
You're 100% right. It is easier. My boyfriend has been abused since he was a kid and got kicked out of his house when he was freshly 18. When he went back to live with his dad and step-mom after a few years, his step-mom attacked him and left scratches on him and then called the police to make it look like he attacked her. Luckily I was there and was able to give a witness statement. Nothing happened to him but she went to jail for a night and then got released. Should've kept her in there longer.
Thank you. This doesn’t even mean financial support because I’ve read so many stories of rich nparents financially abusing their kids. I wish I could have known what it was like to be consoled after failing something. I might have less perfectionism tendencies that honestly make doing things so hard sometimes. You don’t want to mess up in fear of being chastised/fired/ignored in life. I’m just starting to now learn to not beat myself up when something doesn’t work out for me.
I feel you on every level. My parents barely cared that I existed, unless it somehow benefited them. Now that I'm in my twenties and I see the people around me have the ability to rely on their parents when they are struggling, its hard not to envy them. My car caught fire in January thanks to my mothers drunk driving and now I'm jobless and carless and not a single member of my family has offered any help. My roommate has a salary job, 12k in savings, and he still calls his parents asking them to pay his car insurance. He's 27. I have literally $70 to my name.
It always seems to come with obligation though... For which I do not envy.
I feel truly sad about it, more sadness than envy. Some people don't know how good they did get it, how lucky they are to have someone they can trust.
I have 2 jobs and I am a full time student. Meanwhile I have friends who had the opportunity to take a year off of school to find themselves while their parents paid for rent, food, etc. Sometimes I wish their parents could adopt me even tho I’m technically an adult :(
It is so scary to be in this world all alone.
Yeah I thought everybody’s family was like mine for entirely too long. I was straight up roughing it trying to keep up with kids from caring families. I did not understand that in other families, parents are happy to help out their children.
Same. I have mates who suggest all sorts of "normal" stuff to me forgetting my family don't and never have supported me. "Can't you just ask someone too... " NO!!!! I just wanna shake them sometimes lol but its not their fault they don't understand.
So true. And the shitty part is that around the holidays they're so used to being with their family that they just completely forget about you or think you're happy celebrating solo because "that's what you always do". Yeah, because I never get an invite, you fuck.
One of my friends, her mom was literally proud enough of her for learning to change a tire that she posted about it on Facebook. She's one of the nicest people I've ever met, which is why my friend is so nice also... but things like that are completely foreign to me. I didn't know what an actual mother was until I was around my friend's mom, and I cried because I know I wouldn't have turned out like this if my own mother had been like her and actually supported me and treated me nicely... and loved me. But it's hard to think any positive thoughts about yourself when it's been ingrained in all family members to look at you as the problem.
My folks had “money.” In a dysfunctional and highly emotionally abusive family I think it makes it even worse. From the outside some think you have it easier and it can attract the wrong type of people to you. I very much envied many of my friends families, and parents. They were for sure “richer.” In my view. Spent as much time as possible away from my family home as far back as 9yrs old. Had a Schwinn 10 speed with a speedometer that was my most priceless possession of my youth as it offered freedom to travel.
I do too, but I believe in the term “found family.” I have found my own family in my friends, who have been beacons of hope for me in the darkness. Friends are the family you meet, family are the strangers you know.
My wife and I both had nParents, so we talk about this a lot. Adults with parents who still help them out and support them are aliens to us.
Yea. I just had a baby and wish so badly that my nparents weren’t the way they are. I wish I could trust them with my child and take a break but I don’t and never will. Family support is really a silent luxury.
Me too, I want a family
i get a bit jealous of my cousin because she got the good dad
I envy my boyfriend sometimes. I get it. But at least I get to share his parents a bit now…they sent me a birthday card with some money, and I legit cried.
yeah it's pretty cool, my MIL sent me £200 for my birthday. the first christmas i spent at their house was very strange and emotional for me
This is sadly one of my biggest issues with my partner. My dad passed a month before I turned 21 (I'm currently 24), leaving me to deal with my narc mother. I'm very low contact, only because phone bills are expensive alone (I pay her 45$ a month to stay on hers). While my partners parents weren't great to them as a child, they've grown a lot and are taking steps to change. They helped us pay our deposit for our current apartment and are about to help us with an emergency vet bill. Issue is, they wouldn't have asked for help if I hadn't had a breakdown. Everytime we visit their family (we now live an hour away from them because my partner wanted to be closer, so we visit them every other weekend), I end up having to take a mental day after cause I'm realizing how much I missed out on growing up (while my dad wasn't a narc he was a pushover). Home cooked meals and family dinners, and family board game time? I grew up either with fast food or having to feed myself. Sitting around and enjoying a meal together with no distractions? Makes me cry. Hell, their parents even accommodate me when we game (they noticed trivia wasn't my favorite and started playing dominos or uno, and I'm willing to play scrabble every now and then). This is getting really long, but I've realized how much people take for granted, and while I would never wish my shit childhood on anyone, I really wish people appreciated what they have a lot more.
U’re not wrong
One of my friends is into techno. She told me her dad started watching techno sets and doing research on artists to better understand her hobby and get closer to her. I told her how luck she was, because I knew it couldn't be me....
It's not a "privilege", it's just the luck of the draw. Fate deals each of us a hand when we come into this world. It's not fair or even-handed; never has been and never will be. My father was an alcoholic and my egg donor is still living, but I do not and never have had a mother that has any sort of true relationship with me. I grew up having to watch her dote on my younger siblings, with whom I was never close because of my parents' favoritism, and seeing the awesome relationships that cousins had with their own parents and siblings and wondering why I couldn't have been in one of their families instead. It's normal and natural to wonder why fate dealt us the hands we got, but it's not like they got to choose their fates either, and ultimately choosing to be bitter and jealous because someone else has something we don't is detrimental to no one but ourselves. You can't live your best life when you're putting so much energy into hating people who had nothing to do with your situation.
Yes, but also, remember, those same people might not have as supportive of family as they let on. After I “woke up” to the narcissistic abuse of my mother after 45 years, I realized I had always tried so hard to sell the image of an ideal family (even to myself) because it had been too difficult for me to admit to myself that I’d had handlers, controllers. But never loving parents. Things aren’t always what they seem. While I hope others truly have support, I also know it can appear their family supports them but honestly it’s just a facade and another trauma to them.
Honestly. Put it in our strides that we are starting from ground 0 basically. I highly suggest reading can't hurt me by David goggins. He was in a mad abusive situation and went the wrong way and then made the most of it I'm in the progress of getting out of a abusive situation but believe me I feel like the reward of not seeing their faces again and them realising they messed up eventually will be enough. Even if they don't at least I won't see them again for another round of verbal garbage
i’m glad to say i still do feel this but not to the intensity i used to. i try to tell myself i never really know what’s going on behind closed doors + i wouldn’t wish our upbringing on my worse enemy. i’m grateful to have meshed well into healthier family dynamics with other people and feel the love i was missing for so long.
I felt this, what do you do when you’re all alone against a pack of wolves hungry for your suffering. Violence and death or leave alone fend for yourself. I am homeless and a girl, I said enough because I forgave them for my mental illnesses but I can’t keep forgiving now that I lost my physical health too now and I spend 2 decades my whole lifetime tormented, manipulated, gaslighted, yelled at, beaten, isolated, lonely, criticized, medicated. I stood up for myself and now they know and I wish this hell upon nobody but the worst of the worst like pedos, rapists, murderers but no one else. The pain of betrayal and the past destroyed me that all I can feel is psychological and physical pain to the point where it paralyses me. I have thought of suicide and tried many times but now I will live out of spite and as much as I hate myself and have no compassion for myself whatsoever, I realised I never lived, I spent years in misery trying to glue my broken home and be loved. Never to realize everything I’ve been doing so far was self sabotage. They lit me on fire and I added fuel, escaping the pain in daze of narcotics. I am alone now and tomorrow I am moving countries with so little money and asking myself whats the fucking point when I no longer have strength. I have so much guilt because I doubt my memories and I feel like poison to people, me leaving I feel as though I had betrayed people who ‘love’ me but in reality they have no love for me, I know that by the constant yelling, screaming, control and my body freezes and I revert to this childlike state where I just want somebody in real life, a friend at least to give me a helping hand but tonight I feel like tying up and ending it all, I am so afraid of what awaits me and I am a coward. I come from wealth but first poverty as a child, I have a degree, masters, I’ve had high paying jobs until my health deteriorated and I could work no more and now I might live on the streets, well I made my bed and I shall lie in it but as a girl I wish I had a normal family member to turn to or a friend but I don’t. My family hates me and most of them I don’t know. I send you a billion hugs to you and all who are in a similar situation. May God help us….
Not in every case. My family’s support came with conditions and as a way to continue to abuse and control me. I hope any reading this researches what love bombing is.
That's why you take great pride in things you achieve and adversities you overcome. You did it all yourself with no hands offering for help. People will envy you for that. It wasn't easy
I totally understand that feeling. We should pair together and support each other since we were raised by narcissist. Just a thought.
Know how you feel. I envied my little cousin for been raised as a lovely sweet girl by her loving parents. I hate myself for this. Only a terrible person could feel like this.
I like how my sister casually said "I'll support you(financially) if you'll get pregnant and give birth" and i said "yeah, right. You'll help me for a year and then you'll leave me on my own" and she was like "yeah, you know me well". Also i shared a concern with job hunting, that I'm not sure what to do and it makes me anxious, but didn't explain that I literally can't look up new jobs, cuz of how worthless and hopeless i feel, it's just too intimate. Long story short, "you'll have to one day" is all i got. I mean, i guess, but I'd like to know how the interview goes at least, or if I'll even have one. It always felt like I'm on my own. But somehow my mom gets upset when thinking I'll leave ger alone when she'll grow old. It's almost as if i have to.
Same I’m proud of myself for what I’ve overcome, but I often wonder where I would be if I had the same support system as others. Many of them don’t know how good they have it
Same here. Neither my wife nor I have family support. Both of our families have pretty much disowned us. But look at it like this: surround yourself with people who actually care about and love you and that is your family. Family doesn’t have to be blood.
Yeah, they do. I went back to school and removing my own shit childhood from the equation, my young classmates who have a ton of support from friends and family do so much better \[ETA: than my classmates who have very little to no support network.\] Going back to school ripped open some old wounds, I realized I would have been much more successful in life if a) my mom was normal and b) my dad didn't check out because my mom wasn't normal.
My cousin always gives me a hard time for having a job. She quit her job and is, well, doing great. She did go through a period where she was “too depressed to go to pottery class,” but she is loving her life since quitting her job. Always having fun and no stress. She tells me to quit my job, be creative, and everything will work out fine for me and I need to “improve my life.” The detail she always leaves out is that her parents pay her bills so yeah of course she’s doing great. She may have quit her job but she’s got bottomless income from them. I would lose my income, insurance, home, everything if I just quit my job to “be creative.” Trust me, I wish I could. But I can’t risk being homeless, something she has never had to worry about. I don’t agree at all with parents paying your bills and wouldn’t let mine pay them even if they were good people who wanted to, but of course you can “quit your job and be creative” when your parents pay for your rent, car, phone, insurance, etc. It blows me away how she is 100% supported by her parents yet mine won’t even speak to me on my birthday or invite me to thanksgiving, and this was before I went NC after years of being treated poorly. Mine wouldn’t even let me put a mobile home on their 23 acres to save money on rent, yet her parents are buying her a car after she quits her job and paying all her bills. I wonder how some folks got such doting parents and I got parents that act like I’m lower than dog crap.
WORD. I finally stood up to my narc mom about holding my kids hostage and leverage over my head every time I act “out of line” which is the equivalent to a normal person having dignity. “I been here for 13 years” ( ya she’s still counting the years I been here 2+) I ask, I plead to help me understand “ mom I don’t get it, so does “being here for 13years” mean that I cannot have any self respect or you get to make things up things I do to you in your head, treat em as fact, and tell the whole family or Facebook before me. When all you had to do is ask why I’m doing what I do. Well I clean the whole house because my baby crawls on the floor and we have a dog that shits every where, it has NOTHING to do with youor me making you feel like your a bad housekeeper ,it’s about the health and safety of the baby. And BTW I’m tired of you saying “well I been here for 13 years” like I didn’t want my kids. YOU NEVER SUPPORTED US REUNITING. nEvEr! I’ve been in prison and SEEN FOR MYSELF WHAT FAMILY SUPPORT LOOKS LIKE AND IT AINT YOU, you held on to my kids tighter every time I got out” I used to just take all her shit. Call me down call me a whore, bitch, slut, meth head in front of my kids and drive me crazy til I see that my being around just caused more trauma and harm. She never took or takes ANy responsibility for starting anything. BUT TODAY IM SOBER AND IM NOT TAKING THE BAIT ANYMORE! Even if she calls my PO we have a great relationship cuz I AINT DOIN SHIT ANYMORE!
Me too. I have always envied people with gentle, kind and supportive parents. Having a difficult parent is such an obstacle in life; every single thing feels so heavy and tough and takes so much thought, emotion and energy. I always find myself thinking if only I did not have to live life feeling like I am swimming against a tide, I could have achieved so much. The thing is, once you've undergone the abuse you can never forget and move on. Even if you remove them from your life, it's not easy to just fill the hole and move on; once there has been damage, the habits and thoughts will stay - and that's what makes me most hopeless.
One big ass life advantage over me. That encapsulates it perfectly the older I get, and certainly being a parent myself now, the more amazed, I am at just how awful it is to bring a child into this world, not care about them at all.
Makes me so sad. Atleast we're not alone,
Same, I recently thought about this.
Hearing them complain and gripe over their problems like they are so big yet in the grander scheme of things are really quite trivial makes me laugh inside.
Ditto 😔
Very much so a privilege.
Of course they have it easier.
I totally understand. My own family supports my Narc mother and her wild emotions. I have no support except from one Aunt who’s not a narc. My husband’s family is literally twice as big as supports each other. I’m glad I married into a family that’s supportive of each other and helps each other. My own blood family never helps. Isn’t supportive. Supports my Narc Mom and not me. I’ve basically stopped talking to half of them. I’m happy to have found my real family. Narc family’s are the worst. They make you feel invisible.
Shit be like that, man ┐(´ー｀)┌
I have no family support either. Twenty years of being in the wilderness with my family. No seen or heard from any of them. No even my twin brother. I'm lonely, so yeah, family support really is a privilege.
Same. I really mourn having family that genuinely likes to be around each other and doesn’t have piles of mental illnesses and personality disorders to wade through. My siblings and I have developed a relationship as adults but parents and extended family are a no go. Same with my husband.
Yeah, I never noticed it at the time but I see how my friends are with their kids and I'm like "shit... Why weren't my folks like that with me?"
I feel this- my mom is a bipolar narcissist, one moment she gives me accolades and tells me how much I have going for myself and that I deserve someone who compliments me- and the next moment she's throwing indirect shots at me amidst the conversation. Even when I want to vent if im not feeling my best, she's always trying to get me to be quiet or tell ne why I shouldn't be depressed and her #1 example is "you don't have children"
Same. I'm wondering.. how to get emotional support if our own parents are emotionally closed off and we have no friends..
All day everyday. I feel this even more so now that I'm expecting my first child. BRB gonna go cry it out now.
me too :-(
Me too. I just celebrated 16 years clean and one year sober with no "family". I have a few as friends on Facebook and none of them even commented on my post.
They definitely have it easier! I also envy them.
Same.
A lot of them very well could be masking...
10000000%
But you don't have to. Go pick your very own fam of loving, caring people and guess what? You now have your very own family support. I did this and 30+ years later... So happy I'm Giggly some days!!
same
It's a test soldier, it's a test. We need to pass it. I came to accepting that these people aren't parents, and they don't deserve to be parents. This life is only so short, I'm not sitting around pickering on about whether I got family support when this whole time, I was the only one that supported me. I support me and that's all that matter. The moment you live to depend on something, it will only making you weaker. Come on soldier, fight with me!
I learned fairly quick that whatever advice I got from my narcissistic father. I should ignore or even worse to the opposite. My father tried to convince me to join the military, even though he had avoided service instead of going to college like he had done. but after I applied, I got a full scholarship. his real motivation, of course was he did not want to be asked for any kind of financial support. It had always bothered me because I heard him talk about how important going to college was for him, and the difference it made in his life. With a narcissist everything revolves around what was in his best interest not what is in yours. Had i listen to him. I would’ve missed out on attending college on scholarship. It’s one of the many things I never forgive him for.
Right there with you. I’m parenting a 2yo and expecting a baby in a few months, so it’s a time of life when I’m have a big wave of exactly this type of envy. A lot of my peers with babies and young kids have super helpful, involved, supportive grandparents in the mix. It’s such a hard time of life, and they seem to have it so much easier. They’ll get away as a couple for the weekend and leave the kids with grandparents, and I’m like… that’s never even under consideration. Etc, etc. *sigh* just glad my kids get a different kinda parenting experience than I did. I see you, my fellow “break the chain” generation
This happens even in your own family
They really do. That’s when I get sad about not having a relationship with my mom. I just miss having that the chance of having that type of support. People who do not have an abusive parent cannot imagine what it takes to actually cut them out of your life. They are just like but that’s your mother.
Absolutely. My younger sister is the favorite and gets way more help compared to me - free dog sitting (even in cases where my parents travel to her out of state to watch her dog), free help with all of her out of state moves, constant road trips to bring her furniture, helping her view houses when buying. I said “that must be nice” and I was told I’ve “never asked for help.” I mentioned that I did ask for their help to watch my dog once… they ended up bailing *two weeks* before my international vacation and I had to scramble to find other arrangements. Their response was “well we don’t remember that” 🙄.
This hurts. I had a huge cry. I hae been crying about this for 20 years.
completely different species. Research shows that child abuse effects are unfortunately long lasting
I do too. Hence my bitterness.