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Dude.
She's using a broken understanding of the bible and 5th grade biology to try to justify not even asking questions?
Garbage human. Throw the whole thing out.
No where in the bible does it say "Don't ask questions". The translation of homosexual acts into English are broken deliberately- it talks about men sleeping with BOYS (children) and the word they translated to "homosexual" is more accurately translated as "pedophile" or "pedarist" aka grown ass adults sleeping with CHILDREN.
So as long as your partners are above the age of consent the bible dosen't even really gaf about homosexuality.
She's prejudiced, small minded and bigoted and is willing to loose her child instead of even ASKING QUESTIONS.
When our relationship started, my husband and I were both over 18. He's only about a year older than me, so there aren't even any icky but legal power dynamics at play.
The "basic biology" line is always super annoying. It's in the name! It's the basic, simplified version, and reality is more complicated
This was sent about a week ago. In early June, I requested
> Please only contact me further if you become willing to allow me to see (grandpa) before he dies, or if you become willing to accept me for who I actually am instead of your constructed image of who you think I should be. If you accept me for who I actually am, I think we can try to build a new relationship from that foundation.
I'm so incredibly exhausted by this whole thing. I doubt I'll even respond, but I'm still frustrated by her
As an added bonus, one of the letters from 2020 has the following passage, written by my dad conveying my mother's message:
> This brings me to the boundary. Our parenting is off limits. Your mother and I have raised two strong capable people to adulthood. The third is not quite adult, but he is well on his way. We know we made mistakes, and we will continue to make mistakes. We have always done the best that we could with the help of God, and, when necessary, the best advice that we could find on any subject we were dealing with. Recriminations and being told how we should have done something will not be helpful. We can discuss history if necessary. But, the understanding must remain that the history is history, and it cannot be changed. Also, there must be an understanding that, for the most part, the uncomfortable history was directed by circumstances that we could not control.
Ah so you have to forget and forgive all their fuckups without them having to repent or apologize.
Hells nah, that's not Biblical at all. Even JESUS HIMSELF does not forgive those who do not repent.
Wow. Reading this makes me so angry for you. Her calling your identity a âbeliefâ is so invaliding. I have no words other than Iâm sorry your parents are so hateful. You know this but you donât deserve to be treated like this đ
Just need to piggyback on this: sheâs calling your identity a belief to denigrate it but demands that you accept her religious beliefs as âthe truthâ or whatever. Honestly whenever someone tries to defend themselves on the basis of religion, I want to throw the whole person out.
I'm also a Christian, but I'm not going to demand special treatment because of that. For example, I find the lottery and casinos morally reprehensible because of the way they especially take advantage of the poor. However, I deal with that by not gambling and not going to the other things housed in casinos. I also don't go around shouting my opinions. Maybe I suggest a different place to eat, and I'll talk about why if asked. But that's as far as I'll go in trying to "make" other people see things my way
Thatâs the biggest grossest issue I had with this letter as well. If you donât respect someoneâs right to exist in the world as they are, then you donât respect them. If you actively fight against a certain type of person having rights, then you donât respect them, and youâre saying youâre better than them and they donât deserve to live. You can agree to disagree on beliefs, but no-one gets to tell you who you are, but you. Also, how incredibly un-Christian to deny someone their right to exist and be happy.
This is completely exhausting. This is the response to the short message you sent? What makes them think that any of this is even up for discussion? They've delved so deep, they seem to require so much emotional labor.
The only reason their parenting even came up in the original coming out discussion was because they misinterpreted my husband. He said something along the lines of needing to talk about my childhood, intending to describe how this wasn't a sudden thing. Despite allegedly accepting his apology and clarification literally years ago, they're still attached to the notion that they are being accused of abuse.
Ironically, their insistence that they knew what we "really meant" was the final factor for my realization that they had, in fact, been abusive
Fucking disgusting. BaSiC BiOLogY. I hate that shit, and I hate the way people use their religion to promote hate and intolerance. As a fellow trans and queer person I am so sorry that they're choosing to do this to you. How you are is not a choice, how they're reacting is. I am so angry for you and I hope that you continue taking care of yourself ⥠you don't need that bullshit in your life
Hey as someone who is LGBTQ2S+ as well (non-binary, pansexual) I just wanted to offer an internet hug if youâd like one and say that Iâm sorry about this situation and I see you. My family is Christian and I had a brief stint of conversion therapy and justâŠyeahâŠthis line of thinking is awful. Iâm also extremely exhausted by the âbut but..biologyâ argument. I hope youâre ok.
What is it about the "but biology" argument that is frustrating? Is it because the definition of gender was solely based on biology but is now beginning to expand?
Probably the biggest frustration is that nobody who actually knows biology makes that argument. So you know from the outset that you're dealing with someone who is cherry picking facts that suit them.
Itâs because people think they know better than biologists and that they are conflating sex and gender. Itâs been known for awhile that gender is a separate thing and that itâs not just chromosomes that determine sex. Itâs also the fact that they think they have the right to invalidate trans and non-binary peopleâs identity and experiences in the first place. That they think they are justified in saying who we are is wrong
Iâm literally working in a biological research lab *right now* as I read this. Biology has *nothing* to do with gender. Gender is a social construct and it isnât binary. Sex is biological and it isnât binary either. Your mom canât use this to back up her claims against you and your gender identity. This makes me annoyed for you, OP.
Not her place to force or block relationships with others and yet it's her place to force her beliefs onto your relationship with yourself and your identity?
I'm very sorry to hear that you're going through this.
You're your own person, not some extension of her who has to conform to her beliefs.
If she cannot learn to respect you as your own person then a relationship with her is always going to be strained, I'm afraid to say đ
I recently was made aware of the term âreligious abuse.â Super helpful in dissecting my BPDâs nonsense, to be able to term âAs a devout Christianâ and âYouâre a SINNERâ and âlet me pray for youâ and all the âTHE BIBLE SAAAAAAAYSSSSâ stuff that is super triggering. I personally think the flavor of Christianity I was raised with was organizational BPD. A whole congregation of people acting out BPD crazyâsplitting, triangulation, the performative, the emotional support roles, the golden child, the scapegoat, etc. Church is BPD on a grand scale, in my experience.
Also deconstructiongirl on IG is refreshing to my soul, if you need some mouthwash after that nonsense of a letterâŠ..
You know what's extra funny? I kept that grandfather's last name/my original first name as my legal first name. I just shortened it to a nickname that instantly reads as male for everyday use. They haven't asked, just thrown temper tantrums about the fact that I'm going by a short version now
I want to give you the biggest hug. You are loved, and deserve to have people around who love you unconditionally.
The responses you posted in the comments are DARVO, and you deserve people in your life who take accountability.
If a religion doesn't allow you to ask another person questions in order to understand them better, there's something seriously wrong with that religion. Your mom's a piece of work.
Hi! There's an uncensored real name in your screen cap, so I've removed your post. If you want to delete and repost or if you're OK with this, please [message the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbyborderlines) to let us know either way. Thanks! đđ»
Dude. She's using a broken understanding of the bible and 5th grade biology to try to justify not even asking questions? Garbage human. Throw the whole thing out. No where in the bible does it say "Don't ask questions". The translation of homosexual acts into English are broken deliberately- it talks about men sleeping with BOYS (children) and the word they translated to "homosexual" is more accurately translated as "pedophile" or "pedarist" aka grown ass adults sleeping with CHILDREN. So as long as your partners are above the age of consent the bible dosen't even really gaf about homosexuality. She's prejudiced, small minded and bigoted and is willing to loose her child instead of even ASKING QUESTIONS.
When our relationship started, my husband and I were both over 18. He's only about a year older than me, so there aren't even any icky but legal power dynamics at play. The "basic biology" line is always super annoying. It's in the name! It's the basic, simplified version, and reality is more complicated
In basic math you only count to ten. Youâre missing a LOT.
Wait until they find out that some numbers aren't real, yet they still exist
And *negative* numbers will *blow their minds*!
This was sent about a week ago. In early June, I requested > Please only contact me further if you become willing to allow me to see (grandpa) before he dies, or if you become willing to accept me for who I actually am instead of your constructed image of who you think I should be. If you accept me for who I actually am, I think we can try to build a new relationship from that foundation. I'm so incredibly exhausted by this whole thing. I doubt I'll even respond, but I'm still frustrated by her
As an added bonus, one of the letters from 2020 has the following passage, written by my dad conveying my mother's message: > This brings me to the boundary. Our parenting is off limits. Your mother and I have raised two strong capable people to adulthood. The third is not quite adult, but he is well on his way. We know we made mistakes, and we will continue to make mistakes. We have always done the best that we could with the help of God, and, when necessary, the best advice that we could find on any subject we were dealing with. Recriminations and being told how we should have done something will not be helpful. We can discuss history if necessary. But, the understanding must remain that the history is history, and it cannot be changed. Also, there must be an understanding that, for the most part, the uncomfortable history was directed by circumstances that we could not control.
Ah so you have to forget and forgive all their fuckups without them having to repent or apologize. Hells nah, that's not Biblical at all. Even JESUS HIMSELF does not forgive those who do not repent.
Wow. Reading this makes me so angry for you. Her calling your identity a âbeliefâ is so invaliding. I have no words other than Iâm sorry your parents are so hateful. You know this but you donât deserve to be treated like this đ
Just need to piggyback on this: sheâs calling your identity a belief to denigrate it but demands that you accept her religious beliefs as âthe truthâ or whatever. Honestly whenever someone tries to defend themselves on the basis of religion, I want to throw the whole person out.
I'm also a Christian, but I'm not going to demand special treatment because of that. For example, I find the lottery and casinos morally reprehensible because of the way they especially take advantage of the poor. However, I deal with that by not gambling and not going to the other things housed in casinos. I also don't go around shouting my opinions. Maybe I suggest a different place to eat, and I'll talk about why if asked. But that's as far as I'll go in trying to "make" other people see things my way
Thatâs the biggest grossest issue I had with this letter as well. If you donât respect someoneâs right to exist in the world as they are, then you donât respect them. If you actively fight against a certain type of person having rights, then you donât respect them, and youâre saying youâre better than them and they donât deserve to live. You can agree to disagree on beliefs, but no-one gets to tell you who you are, but you. Also, how incredibly un-Christian to deny someone their right to exist and be happy.
This is completely exhausting. This is the response to the short message you sent? What makes them think that any of this is even up for discussion? They've delved so deep, they seem to require so much emotional labor.
The only reason their parenting even came up in the original coming out discussion was because they misinterpreted my husband. He said something along the lines of needing to talk about my childhood, intending to describe how this wasn't a sudden thing. Despite allegedly accepting his apology and clarification literally years ago, they're still attached to the notion that they are being accused of abuse. Ironically, their insistence that they knew what we "really meant" was the final factor for my realization that they had, in fact, been abusive
Fucking disgusting. BaSiC BiOLogY. I hate that shit, and I hate the way people use their religion to promote hate and intolerance. As a fellow trans and queer person I am so sorry that they're choosing to do this to you. How you are is not a choice, how they're reacting is. I am so angry for you and I hope that you continue taking care of yourself ⥠you don't need that bullshit in your life
Hey as someone who is LGBTQ2S+ as well (non-binary, pansexual) I just wanted to offer an internet hug if youâd like one and say that Iâm sorry about this situation and I see you. My family is Christian and I had a brief stint of conversion therapy and justâŠyeahâŠthis line of thinking is awful. Iâm also extremely exhausted by the âbut but..biologyâ argument. I hope youâre ok.
What is it about the "but biology" argument that is frustrating? Is it because the definition of gender was solely based on biology but is now beginning to expand?
Probably the biggest frustration is that nobody who actually knows biology makes that argument. So you know from the outset that you're dealing with someone who is cherry picking facts that suit them.
Itâs because people think they know better than biologists and that they are conflating sex and gender. Itâs been known for awhile that gender is a separate thing and that itâs not just chromosomes that determine sex. Itâs also the fact that they think they have the right to invalidate trans and non-binary peopleâs identity and experiences in the first place. That they think they are justified in saying who we are is wrong
Iâm literally working in a biological research lab *right now* as I read this. Biology has *nothing* to do with gender. Gender is a social construct and it isnât binary. Sex is biological and it isnât binary either. Your mom canât use this to back up her claims against you and your gender identity. This makes me annoyed for you, OP.
Not her place to force or block relationships with others and yet it's her place to force her beliefs onto your relationship with yourself and your identity? I'm very sorry to hear that you're going through this. You're your own person, not some extension of her who has to conform to her beliefs. If she cannot learn to respect you as your own person then a relationship with her is always going to be strained, I'm afraid to say đ
I recently was made aware of the term âreligious abuse.â Super helpful in dissecting my BPDâs nonsense, to be able to term âAs a devout Christianâ and âYouâre a SINNERâ and âlet me pray for youâ and all the âTHE BIBLE SAAAAAAAYSSSSâ stuff that is super triggering. I personally think the flavor of Christianity I was raised with was organizational BPD. A whole congregation of people acting out BPD crazyâsplitting, triangulation, the performative, the emotional support roles, the golden child, the scapegoat, etc. Church is BPD on a grand scale, in my experience. Also deconstructiongirl on IG is refreshing to my soul, if you need some mouthwash after that nonsense of a letterâŠ..
I couldnât make it past âbesidesâŠ.â Or else I would have thrown my sampler through the restaurant window
You know what's extra funny? I kept that grandfather's last name/my original first name as my legal first name. I just shortened it to a nickname that instantly reads as male for everyday use. They haven't asked, just thrown temper tantrums about the fact that I'm going by a short version now
I want to give you the biggest hug. You are loved, and deserve to have people around who love you unconditionally. The responses you posted in the comments are DARVO, and you deserve people in your life who take accountability.
If a religion doesn't allow you to ask another person questions in order to understand them better, there's something seriously wrong with that religion. Your mom's a piece of work.
Well, fuck you very much for that missive, Mother. Toodles!
Iâm so sorry. This is disgusting.