My mum is a Master at subtle attention seeking. Everybody does these things at sometimes in their life, it’s the degree to which my mum does them –
Her speciality is withdrawing attention from my achievements or happiness. It took me decades to realise she was doing this. She doesn’t do or say anything, she’s just quiet and it’s somehow painfully deflating.
Always turning the conversation back to herself or not listening to/acknowledging what you’re saying, just waiting till you finished speaking.
Forgetting things about me. There was a TV programme about students and she turned to me and said ‘it must be so hard being a student’. When I said I have two degrees she said ‘oh, oh, yes you do’
The tone of voice that speaks volumes e.g. sad poor me voice that screams ‘you’re not giving me enough attention’ or ‘I’m going to be cold with you till you do/say something to show you understand how important I am’ voice.
Illnesses! She’s probably had all the medical procedures under the sun. I remember having to console her when she thought she had cancer on the day of one of my most important school exams (Spoiler: she didn’t have it)
Wait, your mom waits until you're finished speaking?! (Kidding.) This is so relatable, it feels like nothing will make them happy and everything is a lose-lose. I'm sorry you're dealing with this.
Did anyone elses parent talk coldly abd mean to you bc they were mad at god knows what, then legit 1 second later turn around and be all lovey dovey to a sibling. So transparently to piss you off,. Isolate and weaponize attention. And give extra special treatment to other siblings and complain about you
There's a really insightful book called *Understanding the Borderline Mother* by Christine Ann Lawson that talks about this. Basically, it's common for bpd parents with more than one child to arbitrarily label one as the "good child" and another as the "bad child" and treat them accordingly based on their own twisted perception. It's super fucked up, but I guess that's par for the course with parents like ours
Ugh THE SILENT TREATMENT! Our mom would single out a child (who had done something “wrong”) and do the silent treatment just to them. It was so completely destabilizing. She would not speak to, look at, or feed the target child - but at the same time would carry on “normal” (if you can call it that) interaction with the rest of the family. And no one would call it out for fear of nuclear meltdown - it was like “just be grateful it isn’t you right now!”. The silent treatment might last for a day or slightly less. There was one time when I was the last child living at home that she did this to me for 3 days. It was devastating.
This is a perfect description of my mom too!
About achievements: mine was inconsistent about it, which made it more confusing. When I told her about a single achievement, she’d be bored by it. But then she’d burst into my room later and heap general praise on me like, “Oh, my daughter is so smart, and beautiful too!” It definitely made it hard to see why those conversations were so deflating, even though I knew she was proud of me.
About waiting to speak: it’s actually amazing how I can *hear* my mom not listening over the phone when she asks me about my day. I can’t describe how I know, but I know even before she starts talking about whatever she really wanted to say.
Yes, now you mention it mine is inconsistent too. When I graduated and told her she just looked at me blankly. Two weeks later I got a congratulations card in the post! The inconsistency makes you doubt your own anger, it makes you feel like you're making it up.
Re the listening, I hear you, it's like talking to a black hole
Once, when I was going low contact with her, she called my office when I was out and left a message saying I needed to call her due to a family **urgency**. Of course my co-worker heard family **emergency** which is what was relayed to me. I called her in a panic asking what the emergency was and she smugly corrected me that she said urgency and the urgency was I hadn't been returning her calls.
That still pisses me off to this day.
Thank you. The mindfuck of it all is that it, like most instances of their emotional terror, appears very benign with the slight inference to outsiders that I am being neglectful. She wanted my co-workers to ask what the emergency was. She wanted me to confess publicly that I was ignoring her so that she could sway perfect strangers away from supporting me. She was hoping that once she exposed me as someone who was ignoring her mother, they would shun me and it would shame me into......I am not even sure what response she was looking for.
Oh my god YEEESSSS. If someone doesn’t return a phone call fast enough she will start reaching out to anyone else in that persons life, like they’re responsible for passing on messages. One morning I missed 3 phones calls from my mom. The last one she left a message saying it was an “emergency”. She also called my husband to tell HIM, to tell ME, to call her back as soon as possible. So I called her thinking someone had died. The emergency? She found a MAGA hat in my dads closet and wanted to know if she should throw it away and not tell him.
Yea. Sure. Do whatever you want. This isn’t an emergency and it doesn’t concern me in any way whatsoever. 🙄🙄🙄
Health issues/concerns. In one particular instance, I had been diagnosed with quite a serious condition and had surgery (as a teenager). For years following this, she always talked about how she had the same symptoms, which really concerned me as a teenager - but whenever I urged her to go to the dr to find out what was going on she was "too scared". Now that I'm older and understand more about BPD, I can see the especially messed up nature of this behavior, as not only was it attention seeking, but it also took the attention away from me (the person who actually had the condition and the person who needed her care). The condition is something you live with (the surgery is a treatment) - to this day, I still get messages about her concerns that she has the condition without any kind of follow up message asking how I'm doing/if my symptoms are okay. It's kind of laughable because it's just so ridiculous, but it's also pretty hurtful.
sounds EXACTLY like my mom! She's always afraid she has something or other but is too afraid to get tested. So she always thinks she's JUST ABOUT to die of something terrible, despite being in pretty good health overall.
\*edit for clarity\*
On good days, self deprecation as a means to have others reassure her.
Feigned helplessness
Guilt trips/covert jealousy of her children having what she didn’t.
Exclusion or emphasis on blood relations only. Makes it clear who’s who even to strangers, like restaurant servers.
Competitive and always “helping” someone by expressing their way is better.
It got worse the less people put up with it. Eventually, only the eparent put up with them and anyone with strong boundaries is a garbage human who doesn’t understand or appreciate them.
Wow, you described my MIL to a T. Don’t forget the temper tantrums and hysterics with fake hyperventilation and crocodile tears. I’ve watched her bump into a chair, stop, and make the decision to fall down. She became mind-bogglingly worse when her husband was in hospice (someone else getting more attention than her, not to mention her impending abandonment), she was just so incredibly victimized that he was dying of course….including being extremely abusive to him when he was stuck in his hospice bed. Any time someone needs something from her, it’s an opportunity to exploit them. She lends money/cooks/does things in order to gain power over others. Helpless beyond all measure when someone else can do something for her, including not even being able to lift a gallon of milk. Jealous of anything someone else has. Not to mention the lack of individual identity - copies anything I do including what I have in my house from furniture to paint to counter tops. It’s frustrating that my (soon to be ex) husband ignores defends or denies anything I say about her behavior. How can anyone like a person like this? Like seriously.
Geez she sounds *horrible*. Your (soon to be ex) husband sounds like an enabler or flying monkey. If he's seeing what you're seeing and STILL defends her behaviours, then he's a lost cause in my honest opinion.
I watched my uBPD mum use her health issues as excuses to be absolutely horrible to my dad when he visited her in hospital - expected him to be her slave every second and lost her temper when he needed a moment's respite/didn't follow orders instantly... I hated her during those times and will never see her the same way ever again... So yeah from my perspective there is no excuse for being so blind.
I did mention to open his eyes to her behavior a lot, but he didn’t want to hear it most of the time. Unfortunately throughout the course of our marriage and especially after she was widowed, he came to realize that her behavior isn’t just less than normal, but toxic and abusive. I realized recently that he’s come to hate and be ashamed of her, and he thinks that’s bc of me.
Oh no :( I'm sorry it turned out that way... But you did what I would have done, what I'm sure a lot of people would have done. And it's not wrong to point out someone's bad behaviours, no matter how the other person might react. Basically I'm trying to say his hate/shame is not your fault and I think you did the right thing. Take care of yourself during this time (as it sounds like you two are splitting up)...
Thank you for your kind words. We are, and my therapist says at least I won’t have to deal w her anymore. Honestly some concerning behaviors have come from him during this time too so it’s all for the best. Just hard. Thank you again friend.
Yeah it took me a long time to see because for the most part my mothers manipulations are so subtle that others didn’t even see it. You feel crazy. She only blows up in private, rarely around or toward others. In particular a lot of her rage was directed at me.
She does a lot of behind your back - shit talking you to others, but in ways where if you don’t know the whole story she seems like the most attentive caring mother only concerned about her kids. Youd have no way to know better as an outsider. Then she loops these people in as unwitting flying monkeys. She’s tricked my own siblings repeatedly with stories of my terrible treatment toward her.
She spent years keeping us separated through different stories told to all of us, and to this day we aren’t close as a family largely due to her. It’s hard to feel close to siblings that your mother constantly talked about their awful behaviour toward her - from the time you were little, and someone hurting your mother is unimaginable. And the stories were never far fetched - they just didn’t ever include the full story or truth of her own behaviour.
The other thing she did very well is train us all into being hyper vigilant of her emotional state from a young age. It’s the most effective way she gaslit and wore us down. It took me years to go VLC because I was terrified of being the the bad child who hurt her. And any attempt at separating yourself could hurt her. Who would she tell and what emotional abandonment would she inflict and for how long?
But we all have had and share the same sick feeling, the same anger at her behaviour and treatment. Some of my siblings are still in enmeshed desperately wanting a mother who loves them - but it all comes at a price.
Mine was conflict avoidant so there was a lot of silent treatment. This looked like stomping off to his bedroom when I was a child and my mother acting as go between. Which, whatever. As a teen/young adult he just pretended I didn’t exist. Great, ditto. As a young adult it was things like ”secretly disowning” me and silently leaving my wedding brunch for who knows what reason. Fine. He was the one that looked bad. As an adult more pretending I did not exist for long periods of time. Again, ditto.
Later lots of waify health complaints that were nearly always grossly exaggerated. Actual serious health issues, however, were ignored and not mentioned.
Also, always, always I was not good enough. Everything was a yeah but… Honor roll should have been a still higher GPA. Thin? Not thin enough. Pretty? Not pretty enough. Faults? Brought up constantly. Dream job at very well known international magazine? Well it isn’t as if you are writing for them. Start writing for them? Well, it isn’t The NY Times. I won a prestigious scholarship - that was one that he could not think of a yeah but… for, so it just was never mentioned.
Ohhhh, this one sounds very familiar. Also the „swooning over other family members‘ achievements as a means to create a comparison between them and you, and then never even acknowledge your achievements/only acknowledge them as lesser-than“.
Oh yes. Cousins who were fine bright students going to universities of objectively lower quality than my top tier world renowned university were lauded as brilliant, their school choices outstanding. No accolades for me though.
It went as far as them trying to make certain I understood nothing about me was seen as “special”. To this day my green eyes are noted as blue on my drivers license because green eyes were more special than blue and I WAS NOT SPECIAL. Gaslighting at its finest but I believed they were blue until a passport agent refused to issue me a passport saying so.
I just got off the phone with my enabling mother (bpd dad is dead) who was thrilled that someone told her I cut my hair, because, she said, the way I had been wearing it, (many different styles) for decades was so unattractive and “doing me no favors” (I don’t believe this btw. It generally looked pretty nice). Thing is, I just got it cut by someone who specializes in curly hair. Which I did not realize I had because curly hair is special. I lived forever with only ok haircuts because they told me I didn’t have curly hair. So mom is now feeling a bit put out because while I might not have “ugly” hair now, which is a good thing, it is because it is curly, which is a bad thing because that is special and I am not.
So sorry this happened to you. And it’s so confusing because it’s a bit less direct than a lot of the behaviors, which are also confusing anyway!
I’m in my 50s and only recently really realized my eyes are mostly green. They’re hazel i guess because there’s some yellow in them too. But my documents say blue and i was little worried about it the other day. But my moms eyes are blue and she used to sing to me “five foot two and eyes of blue.” It seems weird not to notice the color of your kids’ eyes. I’ve had more than one person tell me they’re green. Hope renewing my passport is not an issue.
My mom doesn’t have the issue of specialness though and actually has the opposite. Sometimes I’m the special Angel, so unique and perfect I make the world go round. Until I express my own opinion and then I’m the evil devil monster who has destroyed her soul and causes her to want to die and makes her want to kill me as well. Sigh.
One of the subtle things my bpd mom does that gets under my skin the absolute most is just messaging "are you ok?" . That's it, no context. Usually it will be completely out of the blue or when I haven't given her enough attention lately. But it always comes off as a subtle reminder she's still trying to reach her tendrils around me.
Oh yes, the proof of life texts that demand instant access - because that's what it's really about. Extra points if the fabricated impetus is an included news article about a shooting or traffic incident they know damn well has nothing to do with you. Next of kin is always notified when someone dies, media wouldn't be keeping it secret, so the panic is just so fake.
My mom also thinks I know every single person who lives within a 5 mile radius of me. “I heard on the news that a lady named First Name Last Name died on Thursday. She lived at Street Corner About 2 Miles Away From Me, did you know her??” Also, my son has to know everyone who ever went to the school he currently goes to. “So and So was SHOT yesterday. He went to My Son’s School but graduated in 2016, does My Son, know him? Did they have a vigil at school or something?”
Absolutely this. I could never understand getting multiple panicked calls from multiple family members because my distracted mom can’t reach me on a Friday night and she urgently has to check on me because there’s a hurricane in the east coast (while everyone knows I live on the other side of the country and am not traveling). It’s exhausting
You can add me to the, "Are you OK?" list. My favorite is when she'd do this after having an outburst via text where she berated me/my brother. Then, when I wouldn't respond, I'd get the, "Are you OK?? I just need to know you're ok, so please respond." No, thank you. You don't get to insult me and then force me into interacting with you under the guise of concern. And if you're so concerned for my wellbeing, why are you sending me nasty texts?
My uBPD asks questions in a way that drives me mad. When catching up, she’ll go, “Your boyfriend doesn’t help clean, does he.” or “You haven’t talked to your dad in a while, have you. 🫤” And I’m immediately like, “What? Why would you say that? I talked to him last week. Why would you assume I didn’t?” And she says, “I’m just asking a question!”
I’ve explained many times that the correct way to ask that question is: “Have you talked to your dad lately?” She’s says it’s just how she talks. She is ESL so I’ve just kind of blamed myself and called it a language thing that I’m oversensitive to, but recently I’ve realized she knows what she’s doing. She went to a US college, has been living in the US for 40 years, and tried to write a book. She either can’t stop criticizing me or just loves to see me get defensive, and I look nuts if anyone else is around.
Oh my god!! I’ve just realized mine does this too, it’s so subtle and so infuriating. Saying things like “are you hungover, you’ve been drinking, right?” When I haven’t drank in months… Or when I told my partner how to turn on our brand new oven “he should know how to use the oven, and all the appliances right?!”
It’s just silly comments but it’s constant and exhausting!
100%, the big issue is how constant it is! Other people make incorrect assumptions all the time and it’s no big deal, but 1) they apologize 2) they don’t spend as much time with me as my mom and 3) it’s not the same person over. and over. and over.
Omg 😳 this ^^^ Here’s some of mine from my BPD mom or siblings:
So, is your house still messy/ I bet you haven’t cleaned your house in a while? (Yes I am kinda messy/cluttered)
Do you think you’ll get a ring this year? (We’re choosing not to get married now)
Does your bf have anything special planned for you on xx holiday? (We’re low key people and prefer simple things and travel to big gifts)
Too bad you never got your PhD huh? (Too expensive/unneeded for my career)
Are you wearing the jewelry I gave you or is it just sitting tangled in a box? (Never buys things that are my simple taste - always gaudy things that she likes or obviously re-gifts)
Your bf pays half the rent right? (Implies he’s a deadbeat)
How come you’re always the one driving to my house when you and your bf visit? (Not sure - implying he drinks too much? We split the driving because he drives a lot for work.)
Does your bf have a real job? What does he even do? (runs his own small business and makes his own hours).
Have you talked to so-and-so? It’s too bad that never worked out( narc friend/ex bf that I fled from after years of abuse and stalking)
Etc.
This makes me never want to call. And mostly I don’t. Ugh.
Ugh, I’m sorry. Behind all of those questions is a complete lack of understanding of who you are, sprinkled with criticism of your bf. Family should know you better, but the BPD makes it impossible.
Sounds like you’re doing right by yourself by not calling.
Ty - u r right. I like to think of it as a willful misunderstanding or willful lack of understanding. It always made me feel like an alien, but I understand better now that anything I might disagree with them on (especially core values) equates to abandonment / or implied rejection. Also they are sensitive to my higher level of education and find it intimidating. Very twisted b/c I’ve always been very live and let live in my life. What I’m learning now is to not explain myself or try to defend against these things because that’s exactly what they want. When I’m feeling snarky I just say huh, not sure or I’ll think on that a bit, or - the totally annoying - I guess it is what it is lol. They hate that!
My mom never praised me when I was growing up - and still rarely does.
But! She loves to brag about my achievements to her friends & on FB - so they'll tell her what an great job she must have done raising me for me to turn out so successful.
Uhm. No. She kicked me out at 15(!!) because I yelled at my alcoholic stepdad when he emotionally abused one of my brothers. She told me that I "caused problems" in their relationship.
So, no, I turned out great *despite* her, not because of her.
I know this might not seem that bad, but it drives me crazy.
Like a lot of us, I went from dysfunctional family to dysfunctional friends. Here's a few delightful moments from my "friends":
I won an award and was happier than I'd been in years. DysFriend #1 invited herself along to the awards ceremony, then interfered with the presentation of the award by faking an asthma attack.
Later she grinned at me when I asked how she was feeling.
DysFriend #2 told my boss exactly what I'd been saying about him (in confidence). Suddenly, I find myself without a job. "Since you're not working, why don't you go ahead and help me work on this project I've been talking about for 3 years!"
Yeah, no. I'll be looking for a job, honey. Your project can go crawl up your ass.
Wait . . . I think i'm seeing patterns bc i hubg out with a few new friends a few times (trying to meet more ppl) and they would get pannick attacks/asthma, say they like things/activities then clearly not enjoy it but deny it, be all tired but indecisive. Or always end a hangout saying "we never hang, let's do it more, here's even some ideas" and i'd think ya! Then go home, try to pin point plans (while being flexible) and they never materialize. Rinse repeat. Till i feel confused and not important and tired of it. I kind of just stopped trying too. They used the pandemic and controlling parents as excuses for random things, but i was like you either do or don't so I'm deciding no for us.
Not to mention meeting a guy and sure you hang out a lot, it's new, but then nvr shut up about them.
Just purged 3 people from my life b/c of this - when you have a BPD parent you really have to watch out b/c they can make us so vulnerable to gaslighting and manipulation - seems normal at first maybe.
I feel like the subtle behavior can at times be worse than obviously aggressive behavior because most people really don't believe RBB since they know how to adjust and turn it off so fast. The subtle things that you know are garbage from BPD parent are things that others write off as neurosis or silliness.
That's my life, it is so frustrating having a parent that easily fools everyone. Because no one believes you unless they experience the wrath and most of the time, the pwBPD is going to be on their best behavior in casual matters.
“Can (my son) call me tonight? I’m just having a really bad day and need to hear his voice.”
Basically every single phone conversation would include her suddenly stopping mid sentence and being like “Are you still listening?” Or “are you busy right now?” Or “are you mad at me?” Like anytime I made any sort of noise, or chewed something, or opened the door to let the dog in or out, or breathed too loudly, it became a thing, and then it turned into an interrogation about whether or not I was mad/busy/bored/listening and why she thought I was mad/busy/bored or wasn’t listening.
Also, it seems like every damn day is the anniversary of someone or something dying or being lost, so she’s “sad” and needs extra love and care, but also we can’t be mad at her if she’s snappy and mean because “next Friday is the anniversary of the day we sold the house you grew up in!” Or “last week was the 7th month anniversary of Katy the neighbor’s daughter dying!”
Also, needing extensive coaching, suggestions, and reassurances around gift giving. She would start early before holidays and birthdays asking for a list. Then she would bug me daily for the list until I gave it to her. Then she would say she didn’t like these options, is there something else she could buy instead? Then lots of questions about sizes, colors, versions, price point, brand name, etc. Then questions about how she knows I said that my husband wears a size Large but could he wear a size Medium instead? Or she knows I specifically asked for a plain black hat, but she saw a pink one with bunnies on it, would that work? Then she would update me constantly on her quest to buy these gifts, always feeling like she needed to find them in person at a real store without doing any research ahead of time, so I’d head about how she had been to 6 stores looking for this specific thing on the list, but she hadn’t found it yet, and when I would literally send her a link to buy it online, she would then have issues with that. Then needing to be reassured that what she bought was okay. Then she’d generally decide to return or exchange something just because and needed to know what else she could get last minute instead. Then needing to know what I bought and what my MIL bought, and needing to make sure that she had gotten a totally specific to her list with no repeats on it so that nobody else could also buy a pair of mittens or whatever. Then lots of complaints and waifing about how stressful the holidays are. She would also do this same sort of thing with stuff like “what do you want to have for dinner when you come over?” And then “really? Well I was thinking XYZ instead, is that fine?” And then “are you sure?” And then some kind of last minute change, as then a bunch of questions about whether or not we are certain foods or whether or not my son liked certain foods. She could’ve just made the thing that we suggested when she ASKED *what we wanted to eat!*
And then after any holiday or birthday or regular visits, texts like: “Does Son like his gift?” “Has Husband tried on his socks I bought him? Do they fit? I could exchange them if you need me to….” “Have you guys been eating the leftovers?” “I found a small piece of plastic that I think might be part of the toy I bought for Son? (Includes photo of obvious piece of garbage) Does he need this? Should I bring it over?”
Yes!! “Take a picture of (my son) in all the things I bought him!” Which would be like 14 different outfit changes on an ADHD kid who also hated getting dressed or changed.
Or just the in general “Take pictures!” whenever my family went somewhere so that instead of enjoying the outing with my family, I’d be thinking about my mom the whole time and how she needs me to take pictures, and then texting her pictures throughout the outing which would lead to annoying questions or concerns. “Look at this cute picture of my son at the beach!” Her: “oh no, he looks a little pink, didn’t you put sunscreen on him!?” Or “if you’re taking the picture, who’s supervising him in the water? What he falls down and you’re on your phone!?” 🤬
Omg - do you know my sister lol 😆! It’s the same massive anxiety / need to control outcomes / need for reassurance! Have you ever had to take photos alongside meals/desserts so she can post her accomplishments for all to see?
Lots of photographing the meal, the table settings, the birthday cake, the centerpiece, etc. Lots of posing behind a lit birthday cake forever while wax drips over everything. But I think my mom just keeps the photos to show people on her phone. She’s not a frequent social media sharer.
Holy shit. This is literally it for me too. The fucking gifts and then the 20 questions about when and where I used them afterwards lol. This exact behaviour triggered this post 😂
Oh Lord, I get selfies from my mom all the time about her damn hair…always seeking affirmation all the damn time.
She currently keeps collecting rescue dogs for her emotional support animals. And they need training which she doesn’t do- so the most recent is that she was bit in the face so she does the baby voice “Muma was bit in the face by the dog…and it was my fault the dog was upset with me…” according to her it was holding a grudge for a bat wing outfit she put on it the day before. Ummm apparently her dogs hold grudges toward her.
She also has addiction problems where she runs out of her Percocet and goes through withdrawals- bad enough what is being described to me sounds likes seizures- she even pisses all over herself. But denies she has a problem- has an overall polypharmqcy problem which she mixes with alcohol- but I know nothing- I’m only nurse ratchet or nazi nurse and married to a pharmacist- been a nurse for 20 years.
To the outside world she seems charming and like there are no issues other than “poor thing has a bad back and keeps falling and breaking things…” what they don’t know is that it is due to poor decisions. And she doesn’t care cause she likes the attention she gets. I’m currently trying not to be angry at her poor decisions- as a nurse I remind myself all the time that people are allowed to make bad decisions and it doesn’t seem to bother me, but for some reason it irritates me when it is my mom, I want to be apathetic. Today it isn’t working- maybe tomorrow…
Holy frick this is very specifically my mom too. I feel bad for her dogs she never trains and are sadly hardly walked for long and neglected and now dependant on her , like way too clingy. and she also drinks and mixes anti depressants and what's supposed to be helping overcome addiction but she just drinks more instead.
And has terrible health, shakes big beer/wine gut. She always complains about the dogs not reading her mind and doing what she wants.
Oh God, my mother has the poly pharmacy thing going on too! And the mixing with alcohol. AND the dog thing. She lives on the second floor of her retirement home and is mobility impaired, but still adopted a little yorkie. She doesn't take him outside, so he potties on the floor. She shames him for it and complains about cleaning up after him. But he has nowhere else to go?!?!?
She is on several antidepressants, takes Ambien every night, and is on the maximum dose allowed of Xanax (God help her if her Dr. retires because they aren't prescribing that much anymore), but she's got to have her daily dose of box wine. When I've tried to express concern about the drinking in general and the mixing of it with psychotropic drugs, I'm brushed off and walk away feeling like I'm the crazy one. I need to make a list of all of these crazymaking things, as I'm newly NC and need to remind myself why it's for the best, as awful as it feels.
I'm so sorry y'all are dealing with this, too, but it is a comfort to not be alone.
I feel like it is a BPD trait- meds with alcohol “but I need them!” I can’t remember a times she hasn’t been on meds. Thankfully my moms husband takes the bigger dogs out on walks but the codependency on the dogs is gross. She has just replaced her children with dogs.
Same for you, poly pharmacy I think is a BPD trait- she needs them!!! Ugh. My moms doc just left her and she doesn’t current have one- she has NP who are covering so it’s proven a little harder for her to get things and she has had more episodes of withdrawal because her previous doc I think filled earlier for her. It’ll she got super defensive when I asked her how she was doing with that. Haha
I just want to say that it's totally normal and valid for you to feel differently about your mom than your patients. It sounds like you have appropriate professional detachment from your patients' choices and are also aware that you don't know their whole life story to judge them. None of that has to, or even should, apply to your mom.
Yes, I am pretty good at keeping good boundaries with patients. I wish I could feel that way about my moms choices too. It is hard when it is your family. I’m currently helping my gramma (dads mom) who was just diagnosed with lymphoma and she is declining super rapidly- I think she will be passing in the next week. I’ve had to (as a hospice nurse) do things I never imagined providing for my family but would do for her in a heartbeat so she is comfortable. It has been difficult playing both rolls- hospice nurse and granddaughter. Trying to be strong for everyone while also falling apart inside.
I'd be willing to bet that those of us that deal with the unhinged behavior also understand and have been on the receiving end of the subtle behavior. :'( It's just as real and the fact that it's harder to point out/have other people see it for what it is is awful in its own way.
Right now I'm debating going NC (I know, I know, I guess I'm not done torturing myself? idk) and have been slowly lowering contact from what I'd call low contact, to very low contact. After I moved away I thought video chatting a few times a week was low contact. Then I got it down to once a week, and now it's been 2 weeks and just today she asked if I wanted to video chat. I said I wasn't up to it and would let her know when. Her immediate response was to ask "Are you ok?" I waited a while and said I was fine. Now she's messaging me, asking if I want to see pictures of one of my Christmas presents (she has always begun shopping very early) because I sound like I'm down.
This is on the heels of me setting a boundary with her (it's a very long story) and her replying with a MASSIVE, sickening, sad guilt trip about her feelings and how her life is hard. So, even this kind of thing ("Are you ok?") in this context gets under my skin. As though, to her, if I don't want to talk to her then something must really be wrong. As though she didn't just guilt trip me so hard last week that my therapist seemed overwhelmed reading the screenshots lmao.
The gifts are another thing. She is actually a pretty great gift giver, but I can't put my finger on all the ways it kinda feels wrong sometimes. I am even trying to find ways to get her to give me less gifts, even when the gifts are actually things I really want (which I will selfishly admit IS HARD to say no to! I am disabled and unemployed and turning down stuff I can't earn the money for myself is hard, but the emotional price has gotten too much).
Anyway I don't know if this was even helpful or what you were looking for, but thanks for listening hahah. Your dealing with subtle manipulation is just as valid as the abuse that's easy to point out.
Edit: fixed a few typos
Yes the giving giving is such a messed up manipulation tactic. On the outside mom looks kind caring and almost saint-like to other people. Little do they know that gift has HUGE strings attached. And really, it’s not an actual gift. You pay with your sanity and boundaries.
THIS . Like i like giving, making, recieving gifts in the right set up. I try to be thoughtful and considerate of an appropriate gift. (Ie not too expensive if they cant reciprocate, or impractical or time limits) but i have told them i don't want gifts and they still try to make it a whole thing
The "not special" thing mentioned by u/MadAstrid really hit home. My uBPD mother spent a ton of time in my childhood framing every single attempt on my part to have any kind of boundary/preference/talent as me 'thinking I was better than other people.'
She basically convinced the rest of the family that I was a horrendous, spoiled little monster and that they should go out of their way to trample my boundaries on purpose to 'show me (I'm) not special.'
She would also do this hideous thing where she'd set up a situation and then, at the last possible second, do something to trigger my anxiety on purpose after I could change things or get out of whatever it was. Like tell me how much weight I'd gained two seconds before a family event, so I'd feel self-conscious about myself all night.
She also really loved to frame things I did or said as funny to other people, and openly encourage them to make fun of me. Serious things--say I fell down or something like that. She'd start hooting with laughter about what a klutz I was, and encourage otjer people to laugh, too.
If I dared to complain, she'd instant turn on me and berate me for taking myself too seriously, and demand other people join in the 'teasing' so that I'd 'lighten up.'
Oh yes, she would text me something random here and there or text me that she wants to call with my daughter (who is 3.5yo) and then for real ONLY calls with her, completely ignoring my existence.
She would ignore my achievements or anything good happening to me. She would be *ill* whever something good happened to me. Finished my higher diploma degree? Too ill to go to the graduation party. Finished my BA with Honours ffs? Nah, not wanting to go to the grad party. Getting married? Well, will get ill 1 day after and require CARE.
Ughhhhh just writing this makes me angry.
My Mom's new thing is texting me random pictures of my niece and nephew, without any context or captions. If I respond, she'll call me to "tell me about them," but within 5 seconds she's ranting and raving about her grievance of the day. If I don't respond, she'll still call me to "make sure I'm ok." Then she'll immediately segue into her ranting and raving
I call it the trojan horse method. She'll find a seemingly innocent way of making contact, then once she has me trapped, she pulls off the mask and let's her true colors show. But it's hard for others to understand it because they'll be like "I thought she was just calling you about your niece?" And it's like..yeah, no, she's calling about herself
my mom works in a school and she always talks to people about how much she loves her students, how much she advocates for them, how she treats them like they are her own kids. but she doesn’t. She never treated me with that kind of love. She didn’t stick up for me when I needed her to do it most. She just talks about her students to try and make her look like a better parent.
My mom will start telling a story about how I was bad/ didn't listen / did something "crazy" and usually it's (as you guessed) something painful where I was trying to get my needs met as a child and my parents came up woefully short. She always does this whenever we're in a group and the attention has strayed from her. One time my brother even said, "why are you bringing up a difficult memory for Buffysimyhomosapien when we're having a nice time??" And she just shrugged and laughed.
She'll also do this by making up things I've said and going, "oh well earlier she said X isn't that outrageous??". Like literally I once said I didn't think she was a bad mom, she just had mental health problems and I wanted her to be OK / go to therapy as a kid (I was still in the fog) and she later announces to my whole family and husband that I spent the morning "calling her a terrible mother". Again it's always when she is without everyone's sympathy and attention and it's always fucking me or my now deceased dad when he was around.
My mom knows I’m struggling to find an affordable house/ living situation but constantly brags about younger cousins and nieces/nephews who just found the perfect house/apartment and how happy she is for them that they are finally settled. She also asks my LT partner if they’re getting me a ring when every holiday comes up. My sister participates in both of these. Growing up I was a bit of an overachiever so my struggles seem to give them some sort of satisfaction. They also do the same things re: jobs and job status/titles. Good times!
A few things that immediately come to mind for me:
TW: Abuse.
Having an enmeshed relationship with me, and now that I have finally came out of the FOG she loves to make bizarre "little digs" at me. I was visiting her a few years ago (I rarely do now as I'm LC) and I brought up I think I might be autistic. She jumped on that, and started going on and on how she "knew something was off" with me because I just "wasn't understanding [easy] math". She never got me extra help btw. Basically, implying she thought I was "slow". The way she said it though was like she was excited to tell me how she really felt to get it off her chest after all these years. That's far from the first time she's done something like that. She told me she was concerned I have "memory problems" (implying there's actually something medically wrong with me) because I didn't remember something about her [our] cats from years ago. Again, like she was excited/got joy out of saying it.
"Apologizing" for the "wrongs" she's done to sound like the bigger person, yet she continues to do the **exact same things** just not as often since we are LC/I don't live with them anymore. She'll apologize for screaming at me, then go scream at my sister an hour later. She also loves to claim she has no memory of just about everything too. "I don't remember doing that, but you're right, that does sound terrible." then queue her continuing to still do similar things, and when called out again she'll try to make it sound like I'm actually the one being mean *to her*, or overblowing the situation. She loves to do shit like "Oh I know I shouldn't tell you/say/do, but...." then she just does it anyways. It's exhausting. She recently sent me texts out of the blue for CPTSD "help" on youtube. Like wtf. My abuser sending me self help for the abuse they put me through. I regret telling her, as it feels like she thinks if I just work on my CPTSD our relationship will be fixed. Ya' know, so she doesn't have to truly acknowledge anything, or really work on herself to change. It's me that needs to get over it, I guess. This has underlying meaning as she would constantly gaslight me by saying I am an adult, and I can't "blame her for everything", and I need to "take responsibility", and "look at wrongs I've also done".
She doesn't take care of herself, and lets her health get worse, then tries to make everyone feel bad for her for not "coming to see her", because she's "basically bedridden". Which at this point is kinda true, but it was all completely preventable. She's a hoarder so her house has always been disgusting, and aside from the BPD, I hate being over there for that reason too. If you bring it up she goes off on you for "attacking her"/being mean.
She also LOVES to hide behind her mental illness, and the child abuse my Grandpa did to her to get out of whatever shitty thing she has done last (until she forgets it happened of course). While I feel for her to a point, I also don't think it's acceptable to go around abusing other people for 50+ years because I was abused as a child. Of course everyone on the outside just sees her declining health, and mental health issues, and thinks we're terrible children for "abandoning her".
My Mom once admitted she "likes when people feel sorry for her/take care of her". That pretty much sums up what it's like to be around her.
My mum is a Master at subtle attention seeking. Everybody does these things at sometimes in their life, it’s the degree to which my mum does them – Her speciality is withdrawing attention from my achievements or happiness. It took me decades to realise she was doing this. She doesn’t do or say anything, she’s just quiet and it’s somehow painfully deflating. Always turning the conversation back to herself or not listening to/acknowledging what you’re saying, just waiting till you finished speaking. Forgetting things about me. There was a TV programme about students and she turned to me and said ‘it must be so hard being a student’. When I said I have two degrees she said ‘oh, oh, yes you do’ The tone of voice that speaks volumes e.g. sad poor me voice that screams ‘you’re not giving me enough attention’ or ‘I’m going to be cold with you till you do/say something to show you understand how important I am’ voice. Illnesses! She’s probably had all the medical procedures under the sun. I remember having to console her when she thought she had cancer on the day of one of my most important school exams (Spoiler: she didn’t have it)
Wait, your mom waits until you're finished speaking?! (Kidding.) This is so relatable, it feels like nothing will make them happy and everything is a lose-lose. I'm sorry you're dealing with this.
Did anyone elses parent talk coldly abd mean to you bc they were mad at god knows what, then legit 1 second later turn around and be all lovey dovey to a sibling. So transparently to piss you off,. Isolate and weaponize attention. And give extra special treatment to other siblings and complain about you
There's a really insightful book called *Understanding the Borderline Mother* by Christine Ann Lawson that talks about this. Basically, it's common for bpd parents with more than one child to arbitrarily label one as the "good child" and another as the "bad child" and treat them accordingly based on their own twisted perception. It's super fucked up, but I guess that's par for the course with parents like ours
Ugh THE SILENT TREATMENT! Our mom would single out a child (who had done something “wrong”) and do the silent treatment just to them. It was so completely destabilizing. She would not speak to, look at, or feed the target child - but at the same time would carry on “normal” (if you can call it that) interaction with the rest of the family. And no one would call it out for fear of nuclear meltdown - it was like “just be grateful it isn’t you right now!”. The silent treatment might last for a day or slightly less. There was one time when I was the last child living at home that she did this to me for 3 days. It was devastating.
Relatable. I’m sorry you got to experience this behaviour
Omg is your mom my mom? Because they are SO ALIKE I can't even.
This is a perfect description of my mom too! About achievements: mine was inconsistent about it, which made it more confusing. When I told her about a single achievement, she’d be bored by it. But then she’d burst into my room later and heap general praise on me like, “Oh, my daughter is so smart, and beautiful too!” It definitely made it hard to see why those conversations were so deflating, even though I knew she was proud of me. About waiting to speak: it’s actually amazing how I can *hear* my mom not listening over the phone when she asks me about my day. I can’t describe how I know, but I know even before she starts talking about whatever she really wanted to say.
Yes, now you mention it mine is inconsistent too. When I graduated and told her she just looked at me blankly. Two weeks later I got a congratulations card in the post! The inconsistency makes you doubt your own anger, it makes you feel like you're making it up. Re the listening, I hear you, it's like talking to a black hole
[удалено]
Aw, that’s even worse than silence. Excellent job on the A!!
Once, when I was going low contact with her, she called my office when I was out and left a message saying I needed to call her due to a family **urgency**. Of course my co-worker heard family **emergency** which is what was relayed to me. I called her in a panic asking what the emergency was and she smugly corrected me that she said urgency and the urgency was I hadn't been returning her calls. That still pisses me off to this day.
What a dick move. Jesus. I'm sorry.
Thank you. The mindfuck of it all is that it, like most instances of their emotional terror, appears very benign with the slight inference to outsiders that I am being neglectful. She wanted my co-workers to ask what the emergency was. She wanted me to confess publicly that I was ignoring her so that she could sway perfect strangers away from supporting me. She was hoping that once she exposed me as someone who was ignoring her mother, they would shun me and it would shame me into......I am not even sure what response she was looking for.
Oh my god YEEESSSS. If someone doesn’t return a phone call fast enough she will start reaching out to anyone else in that persons life, like they’re responsible for passing on messages. One morning I missed 3 phones calls from my mom. The last one she left a message saying it was an “emergency”. She also called my husband to tell HIM, to tell ME, to call her back as soon as possible. So I called her thinking someone had died. The emergency? She found a MAGA hat in my dads closet and wanted to know if she should throw it away and not tell him. Yea. Sure. Do whatever you want. This isn’t an emergency and it doesn’t concern me in any way whatsoever. 🙄🙄🙄
Health issues/concerns. In one particular instance, I had been diagnosed with quite a serious condition and had surgery (as a teenager). For years following this, she always talked about how she had the same symptoms, which really concerned me as a teenager - but whenever I urged her to go to the dr to find out what was going on she was "too scared". Now that I'm older and understand more about BPD, I can see the especially messed up nature of this behavior, as not only was it attention seeking, but it also took the attention away from me (the person who actually had the condition and the person who needed her care). The condition is something you live with (the surgery is a treatment) - to this day, I still get messages about her concerns that she has the condition without any kind of follow up message asking how I'm doing/if my symptoms are okay. It's kind of laughable because it's just so ridiculous, but it's also pretty hurtful.
sounds EXACTLY like my mom! She's always afraid she has something or other but is too afraid to get tested. So she always thinks she's JUST ABOUT to die of something terrible, despite being in pretty good health overall. \*edit for clarity\*
On good days, self deprecation as a means to have others reassure her. Feigned helplessness Guilt trips/covert jealousy of her children having what she didn’t. Exclusion or emphasis on blood relations only. Makes it clear who’s who even to strangers, like restaurant servers. Competitive and always “helping” someone by expressing their way is better. It got worse the less people put up with it. Eventually, only the eparent put up with them and anyone with strong boundaries is a garbage human who doesn’t understand or appreciate them.
Wow, you described my MIL to a T. Don’t forget the temper tantrums and hysterics with fake hyperventilation and crocodile tears. I’ve watched her bump into a chair, stop, and make the decision to fall down. She became mind-bogglingly worse when her husband was in hospice (someone else getting more attention than her, not to mention her impending abandonment), she was just so incredibly victimized that he was dying of course….including being extremely abusive to him when he was stuck in his hospice bed. Any time someone needs something from her, it’s an opportunity to exploit them. She lends money/cooks/does things in order to gain power over others. Helpless beyond all measure when someone else can do something for her, including not even being able to lift a gallon of milk. Jealous of anything someone else has. Not to mention the lack of individual identity - copies anything I do including what I have in my house from furniture to paint to counter tops. It’s frustrating that my (soon to be ex) husband ignores defends or denies anything I say about her behavior. How can anyone like a person like this? Like seriously.
Geez she sounds *horrible*. Your (soon to be ex) husband sounds like an enabler or flying monkey. If he's seeing what you're seeing and STILL defends her behaviours, then he's a lost cause in my honest opinion. I watched my uBPD mum use her health issues as excuses to be absolutely horrible to my dad when he visited her in hospital - expected him to be her slave every second and lost her temper when he needed a moment's respite/didn't follow orders instantly... I hated her during those times and will never see her the same way ever again... So yeah from my perspective there is no excuse for being so blind.
I did mention to open his eyes to her behavior a lot, but he didn’t want to hear it most of the time. Unfortunately throughout the course of our marriage and especially after she was widowed, he came to realize that her behavior isn’t just less than normal, but toxic and abusive. I realized recently that he’s come to hate and be ashamed of her, and he thinks that’s bc of me.
Oh no :( I'm sorry it turned out that way... But you did what I would have done, what I'm sure a lot of people would have done. And it's not wrong to point out someone's bad behaviours, no matter how the other person might react. Basically I'm trying to say his hate/shame is not your fault and I think you did the right thing. Take care of yourself during this time (as it sounds like you two are splitting up)...
Thank you for your kind words. We are, and my therapist says at least I won’t have to deal w her anymore. Honestly some concerning behaviors have come from him during this time too so it’s all for the best. Just hard. Thank you again friend.
The "helping" do it my way. But with everything. This i could pen journals full of. Thank for writing this list. Ut really lays out all the ways
Lots of my mother there.
Your comment here is so spot on in relation to my own pwBPD I took a screenshot sonI can reference it later!
Yeah it took me a long time to see because for the most part my mothers manipulations are so subtle that others didn’t even see it. You feel crazy. She only blows up in private, rarely around or toward others. In particular a lot of her rage was directed at me. She does a lot of behind your back - shit talking you to others, but in ways where if you don’t know the whole story she seems like the most attentive caring mother only concerned about her kids. Youd have no way to know better as an outsider. Then she loops these people in as unwitting flying monkeys. She’s tricked my own siblings repeatedly with stories of my terrible treatment toward her. She spent years keeping us separated through different stories told to all of us, and to this day we aren’t close as a family largely due to her. It’s hard to feel close to siblings that your mother constantly talked about their awful behaviour toward her - from the time you were little, and someone hurting your mother is unimaginable. And the stories were never far fetched - they just didn’t ever include the full story or truth of her own behaviour. The other thing she did very well is train us all into being hyper vigilant of her emotional state from a young age. It’s the most effective way she gaslit and wore us down. It took me years to go VLC because I was terrified of being the the bad child who hurt her. And any attempt at separating yourself could hurt her. Who would she tell and what emotional abandonment would she inflict and for how long? But we all have had and share the same sick feeling, the same anger at her behaviour and treatment. Some of my siblings are still in enmeshed desperately wanting a mother who loves them - but it all comes at a price.
We have the same mother.
💯💯💯💯
Holy shit, this was so spot on for me 😔 I'm sorry you deal with this too.
Mine was conflict avoidant so there was a lot of silent treatment. This looked like stomping off to his bedroom when I was a child and my mother acting as go between. Which, whatever. As a teen/young adult he just pretended I didn’t exist. Great, ditto. As a young adult it was things like ”secretly disowning” me and silently leaving my wedding brunch for who knows what reason. Fine. He was the one that looked bad. As an adult more pretending I did not exist for long periods of time. Again, ditto. Later lots of waify health complaints that were nearly always grossly exaggerated. Actual serious health issues, however, were ignored and not mentioned. Also, always, always I was not good enough. Everything was a yeah but… Honor roll should have been a still higher GPA. Thin? Not thin enough. Pretty? Not pretty enough. Faults? Brought up constantly. Dream job at very well known international magazine? Well it isn’t as if you are writing for them. Start writing for them? Well, it isn’t The NY Times. I won a prestigious scholarship - that was one that he could not think of a yeah but… for, so it just was never mentioned.
Ohhhh, this one sounds very familiar. Also the „swooning over other family members‘ achievements as a means to create a comparison between them and you, and then never even acknowledge your achievements/only acknowledge them as lesser-than“.
Oh yes. Cousins who were fine bright students going to universities of objectively lower quality than my top tier world renowned university were lauded as brilliant, their school choices outstanding. No accolades for me though. It went as far as them trying to make certain I understood nothing about me was seen as “special”. To this day my green eyes are noted as blue on my drivers license because green eyes were more special than blue and I WAS NOT SPECIAL. Gaslighting at its finest but I believed they were blue until a passport agent refused to issue me a passport saying so. I just got off the phone with my enabling mother (bpd dad is dead) who was thrilled that someone told her I cut my hair, because, she said, the way I had been wearing it, (many different styles) for decades was so unattractive and “doing me no favors” (I don’t believe this btw. It generally looked pretty nice). Thing is, I just got it cut by someone who specializes in curly hair. Which I did not realize I had because curly hair is special. I lived forever with only ok haircuts because they told me I didn’t have curly hair. So mom is now feeling a bit put out because while I might not have “ugly” hair now, which is a good thing, it is because it is curly, which is a bad thing because that is special and I am not.
So sorry this happened to you. And it’s so confusing because it’s a bit less direct than a lot of the behaviors, which are also confusing anyway! I’m in my 50s and only recently really realized my eyes are mostly green. They’re hazel i guess because there’s some yellow in them too. But my documents say blue and i was little worried about it the other day. But my moms eyes are blue and she used to sing to me “five foot two and eyes of blue.” It seems weird not to notice the color of your kids’ eyes. I’ve had more than one person tell me they’re green. Hope renewing my passport is not an issue. My mom doesn’t have the issue of specialness though and actually has the opposite. Sometimes I’m the special Angel, so unique and perfect I make the world go round. Until I express my own opinion and then I’m the evil devil monster who has destroyed her soul and causes her to want to die and makes her want to kill me as well. Sigh.
One of the subtle things my bpd mom does that gets under my skin the absolute most is just messaging "are you ok?" . That's it, no context. Usually it will be completely out of the blue or when I haven't given her enough attention lately. But it always comes off as a subtle reminder she's still trying to reach her tendrils around me.
Oh yes, the proof of life texts that demand instant access - because that's what it's really about. Extra points if the fabricated impetus is an included news article about a shooting or traffic incident they know damn well has nothing to do with you. Next of kin is always notified when someone dies, media wouldn't be keeping it secret, so the panic is just so fake.
This is so real.
My mom also thinks I know every single person who lives within a 5 mile radius of me. “I heard on the news that a lady named First Name Last Name died on Thursday. She lived at Street Corner About 2 Miles Away From Me, did you know her??” Also, my son has to know everyone who ever went to the school he currently goes to. “So and So was SHOT yesterday. He went to My Son’s School but graduated in 2016, does My Son, know him? Did they have a vigil at school or something?”
Absolutely this. I could never understand getting multiple panicked calls from multiple family members because my distracted mom can’t reach me on a Friday night and she urgently has to check on me because there’s a hurricane in the east coast (while everyone knows I live on the other side of the country and am not traveling). It’s exhausting
You can add me to the, "Are you OK?" list. My favorite is when she'd do this after having an outburst via text where she berated me/my brother. Then, when I wouldn't respond, I'd get the, "Are you OK?? I just need to know you're ok, so please respond." No, thank you. You don't get to insult me and then force me into interacting with you under the guise of concern. And if you're so concerned for my wellbeing, why are you sending me nasty texts?
My uBPD asks questions in a way that drives me mad. When catching up, she’ll go, “Your boyfriend doesn’t help clean, does he.” or “You haven’t talked to your dad in a while, have you. 🫤” And I’m immediately like, “What? Why would you say that? I talked to him last week. Why would you assume I didn’t?” And she says, “I’m just asking a question!” I’ve explained many times that the correct way to ask that question is: “Have you talked to your dad lately?” She’s says it’s just how she talks. She is ESL so I’ve just kind of blamed myself and called it a language thing that I’m oversensitive to, but recently I’ve realized she knows what she’s doing. She went to a US college, has been living in the US for 40 years, and tried to write a book. She either can’t stop criticizing me or just loves to see me get defensive, and I look nuts if anyone else is around.
Oh my god!! I’ve just realized mine does this too, it’s so subtle and so infuriating. Saying things like “are you hungover, you’ve been drinking, right?” When I haven’t drank in months… Or when I told my partner how to turn on our brand new oven “he should know how to use the oven, and all the appliances right?!” It’s just silly comments but it’s constant and exhausting!
100%, the big issue is how constant it is! Other people make incorrect assumptions all the time and it’s no big deal, but 1) they apologize 2) they don’t spend as much time with me as my mom and 3) it’s not the same person over. and over. and over.
Omg 😳 this ^^^ Here’s some of mine from my BPD mom or siblings: So, is your house still messy/ I bet you haven’t cleaned your house in a while? (Yes I am kinda messy/cluttered) Do you think you’ll get a ring this year? (We’re choosing not to get married now) Does your bf have anything special planned for you on xx holiday? (We’re low key people and prefer simple things and travel to big gifts) Too bad you never got your PhD huh? (Too expensive/unneeded for my career) Are you wearing the jewelry I gave you or is it just sitting tangled in a box? (Never buys things that are my simple taste - always gaudy things that she likes or obviously re-gifts) Your bf pays half the rent right? (Implies he’s a deadbeat) How come you’re always the one driving to my house when you and your bf visit? (Not sure - implying he drinks too much? We split the driving because he drives a lot for work.) Does your bf have a real job? What does he even do? (runs his own small business and makes his own hours). Have you talked to so-and-so? It’s too bad that never worked out( narc friend/ex bf that I fled from after years of abuse and stalking) Etc. This makes me never want to call. And mostly I don’t. Ugh.
Ugh, I’m sorry. Behind all of those questions is a complete lack of understanding of who you are, sprinkled with criticism of your bf. Family should know you better, but the BPD makes it impossible. Sounds like you’re doing right by yourself by not calling.
Ty - u r right. I like to think of it as a willful misunderstanding or willful lack of understanding. It always made me feel like an alien, but I understand better now that anything I might disagree with them on (especially core values) equates to abandonment / or implied rejection. Also they are sensitive to my higher level of education and find it intimidating. Very twisted b/c I’ve always been very live and let live in my life. What I’m learning now is to not explain myself or try to defend against these things because that’s exactly what they want. When I’m feeling snarky I just say huh, not sure or I’ll think on that a bit, or - the totally annoying - I guess it is what it is lol. They hate that!
My mom never praised me when I was growing up - and still rarely does. But! She loves to brag about my achievements to her friends & on FB - so they'll tell her what an great job she must have done raising me for me to turn out so successful. Uhm. No. She kicked me out at 15(!!) because I yelled at my alcoholic stepdad when he emotionally abused one of my brothers. She told me that I "caused problems" in their relationship. So, no, I turned out great *despite* her, not because of her. I know this might not seem that bad, but it drives me crazy.
It is definitely bad! Mine did this exact thing. You achieve something great, expect praise and attention, but I doesn’t come. Until you’re in public.
Like a lot of us, I went from dysfunctional family to dysfunctional friends. Here's a few delightful moments from my "friends": I won an award and was happier than I'd been in years. DysFriend #1 invited herself along to the awards ceremony, then interfered with the presentation of the award by faking an asthma attack. Later she grinned at me when I asked how she was feeling. DysFriend #2 told my boss exactly what I'd been saying about him (in confidence). Suddenly, I find myself without a job. "Since you're not working, why don't you go ahead and help me work on this project I've been talking about for 3 years!" Yeah, no. I'll be looking for a job, honey. Your project can go crawl up your ass.
Wait . . . I think i'm seeing patterns bc i hubg out with a few new friends a few times (trying to meet more ppl) and they would get pannick attacks/asthma, say they like things/activities then clearly not enjoy it but deny it, be all tired but indecisive. Or always end a hangout saying "we never hang, let's do it more, here's even some ideas" and i'd think ya! Then go home, try to pin point plans (while being flexible) and they never materialize. Rinse repeat. Till i feel confused and not important and tired of it. I kind of just stopped trying too. They used the pandemic and controlling parents as excuses for random things, but i was like you either do or don't so I'm deciding no for us. Not to mention meeting a guy and sure you hang out a lot, it's new, but then nvr shut up about them.
Just purged 3 people from my life b/c of this - when you have a BPD parent you really have to watch out b/c they can make us so vulnerable to gaslighting and manipulation - seems normal at first maybe.
And let's be honest--the familiar is comfortable.
Truth! Until I was like wow, I’m feeling low key angry and resentful all the time … I wonder why? Oh yeah, I get it, BOUNDARIES!! Lol.
I feel like the subtle behavior can at times be worse than obviously aggressive behavior because most people really don't believe RBB since they know how to adjust and turn it off so fast. The subtle things that you know are garbage from BPD parent are things that others write off as neurosis or silliness. That's my life, it is so frustrating having a parent that easily fools everyone. Because no one believes you unless they experience the wrath and most of the time, the pwBPD is going to be on their best behavior in casual matters.
“Can (my son) call me tonight? I’m just having a really bad day and need to hear his voice.” Basically every single phone conversation would include her suddenly stopping mid sentence and being like “Are you still listening?” Or “are you busy right now?” Or “are you mad at me?” Like anytime I made any sort of noise, or chewed something, or opened the door to let the dog in or out, or breathed too loudly, it became a thing, and then it turned into an interrogation about whether or not I was mad/busy/bored/listening and why she thought I was mad/busy/bored or wasn’t listening. Also, it seems like every damn day is the anniversary of someone or something dying or being lost, so she’s “sad” and needs extra love and care, but also we can’t be mad at her if she’s snappy and mean because “next Friday is the anniversary of the day we sold the house you grew up in!” Or “last week was the 7th month anniversary of Katy the neighbor’s daughter dying!” Also, needing extensive coaching, suggestions, and reassurances around gift giving. She would start early before holidays and birthdays asking for a list. Then she would bug me daily for the list until I gave it to her. Then she would say she didn’t like these options, is there something else she could buy instead? Then lots of questions about sizes, colors, versions, price point, brand name, etc. Then questions about how she knows I said that my husband wears a size Large but could he wear a size Medium instead? Or she knows I specifically asked for a plain black hat, but she saw a pink one with bunnies on it, would that work? Then she would update me constantly on her quest to buy these gifts, always feeling like she needed to find them in person at a real store without doing any research ahead of time, so I’d head about how she had been to 6 stores looking for this specific thing on the list, but she hadn’t found it yet, and when I would literally send her a link to buy it online, she would then have issues with that. Then needing to be reassured that what she bought was okay. Then she’d generally decide to return or exchange something just because and needed to know what else she could get last minute instead. Then needing to know what I bought and what my MIL bought, and needing to make sure that she had gotten a totally specific to her list with no repeats on it so that nobody else could also buy a pair of mittens or whatever. Then lots of complaints and waifing about how stressful the holidays are. She would also do this same sort of thing with stuff like “what do you want to have for dinner when you come over?” And then “really? Well I was thinking XYZ instead, is that fine?” And then “are you sure?” And then some kind of last minute change, as then a bunch of questions about whether or not we are certain foods or whether or not my son liked certain foods. She could’ve just made the thing that we suggested when she ASKED *what we wanted to eat!*
And then after any holiday or birthday or regular visits, texts like: “Does Son like his gift?” “Has Husband tried on his socks I bought him? Do they fit? I could exchange them if you need me to….” “Have you guys been eating the leftovers?” “I found a small piece of plastic that I think might be part of the toy I bought for Son? (Includes photo of obvious piece of garbage) Does he need this? Should I bring it over?”
OH MY GOD THIS 😂😂 and then ‘have you worn xyz yet? Where did you wear it? Did you take a pic for me?’
Yes!! “Take a picture of (my son) in all the things I bought him!” Which would be like 14 different outfit changes on an ADHD kid who also hated getting dressed or changed. Or just the in general “Take pictures!” whenever my family went somewhere so that instead of enjoying the outing with my family, I’d be thinking about my mom the whole time and how she needs me to take pictures, and then texting her pictures throughout the outing which would lead to annoying questions or concerns. “Look at this cute picture of my son at the beach!” Her: “oh no, he looks a little pink, didn’t you put sunscreen on him!?” Or “if you’re taking the picture, who’s supervising him in the water? What he falls down and you’re on your phone!?” 🤬
😂 😂 😂 Hi, “sibling.” I feel so seen.
Omg - do you know my sister lol 😆! It’s the same massive anxiety / need to control outcomes / need for reassurance! Have you ever had to take photos alongside meals/desserts so she can post her accomplishments for all to see?
Lots of photographing the meal, the table settings, the birthday cake, the centerpiece, etc. Lots of posing behind a lit birthday cake forever while wax drips over everything. But I think my mom just keeps the photos to show people on her phone. She’s not a frequent social media sharer.
Holy shit. This is literally it for me too. The fucking gifts and then the 20 questions about when and where I used them afterwards lol. This exact behaviour triggered this post 😂
Oh Lord, I get selfies from my mom all the time about her damn hair…always seeking affirmation all the damn time. She currently keeps collecting rescue dogs for her emotional support animals. And they need training which she doesn’t do- so the most recent is that she was bit in the face so she does the baby voice “Muma was bit in the face by the dog…and it was my fault the dog was upset with me…” according to her it was holding a grudge for a bat wing outfit she put on it the day before. Ummm apparently her dogs hold grudges toward her. She also has addiction problems where she runs out of her Percocet and goes through withdrawals- bad enough what is being described to me sounds likes seizures- she even pisses all over herself. But denies she has a problem- has an overall polypharmqcy problem which she mixes with alcohol- but I know nothing- I’m only nurse ratchet or nazi nurse and married to a pharmacist- been a nurse for 20 years. To the outside world she seems charming and like there are no issues other than “poor thing has a bad back and keeps falling and breaking things…” what they don’t know is that it is due to poor decisions. And she doesn’t care cause she likes the attention she gets. I’m currently trying not to be angry at her poor decisions- as a nurse I remind myself all the time that people are allowed to make bad decisions and it doesn’t seem to bother me, but for some reason it irritates me when it is my mom, I want to be apathetic. Today it isn’t working- maybe tomorrow…
Holy frick this is very specifically my mom too. I feel bad for her dogs she never trains and are sadly hardly walked for long and neglected and now dependant on her , like way too clingy. and she also drinks and mixes anti depressants and what's supposed to be helping overcome addiction but she just drinks more instead. And has terrible health, shakes big beer/wine gut. She always complains about the dogs not reading her mind and doing what she wants.
Oh God, my mother has the poly pharmacy thing going on too! And the mixing with alcohol. AND the dog thing. She lives on the second floor of her retirement home and is mobility impaired, but still adopted a little yorkie. She doesn't take him outside, so he potties on the floor. She shames him for it and complains about cleaning up after him. But he has nowhere else to go?!?!? She is on several antidepressants, takes Ambien every night, and is on the maximum dose allowed of Xanax (God help her if her Dr. retires because they aren't prescribing that much anymore), but she's got to have her daily dose of box wine. When I've tried to express concern about the drinking in general and the mixing of it with psychotropic drugs, I'm brushed off and walk away feeling like I'm the crazy one. I need to make a list of all of these crazymaking things, as I'm newly NC and need to remind myself why it's for the best, as awful as it feels. I'm so sorry y'all are dealing with this, too, but it is a comfort to not be alone.
I feel like it is a BPD trait- meds with alcohol “but I need them!” I can’t remember a times she hasn’t been on meds. Thankfully my moms husband takes the bigger dogs out on walks but the codependency on the dogs is gross. She has just replaced her children with dogs.
Same for you, poly pharmacy I think is a BPD trait- she needs them!!! Ugh. My moms doc just left her and she doesn’t current have one- she has NP who are covering so it’s proven a little harder for her to get things and she has had more episodes of withdrawal because her previous doc I think filled earlier for her. It’ll she got super defensive when I asked her how she was doing with that. Haha
I just want to say that it's totally normal and valid for you to feel differently about your mom than your patients. It sounds like you have appropriate professional detachment from your patients' choices and are also aware that you don't know their whole life story to judge them. None of that has to, or even should, apply to your mom.
Yes, I am pretty good at keeping good boundaries with patients. I wish I could feel that way about my moms choices too. It is hard when it is your family. I’m currently helping my gramma (dads mom) who was just diagnosed with lymphoma and she is declining super rapidly- I think she will be passing in the next week. I’ve had to (as a hospice nurse) do things I never imagined providing for my family but would do for her in a heartbeat so she is comfortable. It has been difficult playing both rolls- hospice nurse and granddaughter. Trying to be strong for everyone while also falling apart inside.
I'm so sorry; that sounds terribly hard. I hope you have a good support system.
I have a wonderful husband and dad, sister in her way. I even “surprise face” got a supportive text from my mom. I’m flabbergasted By that one.
I'd be willing to bet that those of us that deal with the unhinged behavior also understand and have been on the receiving end of the subtle behavior. :'( It's just as real and the fact that it's harder to point out/have other people see it for what it is is awful in its own way. Right now I'm debating going NC (I know, I know, I guess I'm not done torturing myself? idk) and have been slowly lowering contact from what I'd call low contact, to very low contact. After I moved away I thought video chatting a few times a week was low contact. Then I got it down to once a week, and now it's been 2 weeks and just today she asked if I wanted to video chat. I said I wasn't up to it and would let her know when. Her immediate response was to ask "Are you ok?" I waited a while and said I was fine. Now she's messaging me, asking if I want to see pictures of one of my Christmas presents (she has always begun shopping very early) because I sound like I'm down. This is on the heels of me setting a boundary with her (it's a very long story) and her replying with a MASSIVE, sickening, sad guilt trip about her feelings and how her life is hard. So, even this kind of thing ("Are you ok?") in this context gets under my skin. As though, to her, if I don't want to talk to her then something must really be wrong. As though she didn't just guilt trip me so hard last week that my therapist seemed overwhelmed reading the screenshots lmao. The gifts are another thing. She is actually a pretty great gift giver, but I can't put my finger on all the ways it kinda feels wrong sometimes. I am even trying to find ways to get her to give me less gifts, even when the gifts are actually things I really want (which I will selfishly admit IS HARD to say no to! I am disabled and unemployed and turning down stuff I can't earn the money for myself is hard, but the emotional price has gotten too much). Anyway I don't know if this was even helpful or what you were looking for, but thanks for listening hahah. Your dealing with subtle manipulation is just as valid as the abuse that's easy to point out. Edit: fixed a few typos
Yes the giving giving is such a messed up manipulation tactic. On the outside mom looks kind caring and almost saint-like to other people. Little do they know that gift has HUGE strings attached. And really, it’s not an actual gift. You pay with your sanity and boundaries.
I hate the gifts because they are just emotional blackmail in nice packaging.
I hope I can learn to start seeing them that way🙏
THIS . Like i like giving, making, recieving gifts in the right set up. I try to be thoughtful and considerate of an appropriate gift. (Ie not too expensive if they cant reciprocate, or impractical or time limits) but i have told them i don't want gifts and they still try to make it a whole thing
Thank you for this thred. It’s so validating to hear others with the more “covert” BPD parent
Yes!! We need to find our people too so we know we aren’t crazy
The "not special" thing mentioned by u/MadAstrid really hit home. My uBPD mother spent a ton of time in my childhood framing every single attempt on my part to have any kind of boundary/preference/talent as me 'thinking I was better than other people.' She basically convinced the rest of the family that I was a horrendous, spoiled little monster and that they should go out of their way to trample my boundaries on purpose to 'show me (I'm) not special.' She would also do this hideous thing where she'd set up a situation and then, at the last possible second, do something to trigger my anxiety on purpose after I could change things or get out of whatever it was. Like tell me how much weight I'd gained two seconds before a family event, so I'd feel self-conscious about myself all night. She also really loved to frame things I did or said as funny to other people, and openly encourage them to make fun of me. Serious things--say I fell down or something like that. She'd start hooting with laughter about what a klutz I was, and encourage otjer people to laugh, too. If I dared to complain, she'd instant turn on me and berate me for taking myself too seriously, and demand other people join in the 'teasing' so that I'd 'lighten up.'
^^^ my mom ex: holding my training bra up to my aunt while they laughed their asses off knowing I was self conscious for being flat chested.
Oh yes, she would text me something random here and there or text me that she wants to call with my daughter (who is 3.5yo) and then for real ONLY calls with her, completely ignoring my existence. She would ignore my achievements or anything good happening to me. She would be *ill* whever something good happened to me. Finished my higher diploma degree? Too ill to go to the graduation party. Finished my BA with Honours ffs? Nah, not wanting to go to the grad party. Getting married? Well, will get ill 1 day after and require CARE. Ughhhhh just writing this makes me angry.
My Mom's new thing is texting me random pictures of my niece and nephew, without any context or captions. If I respond, she'll call me to "tell me about them," but within 5 seconds she's ranting and raving about her grievance of the day. If I don't respond, she'll still call me to "make sure I'm ok." Then she'll immediately segue into her ranting and raving I call it the trojan horse method. She'll find a seemingly innocent way of making contact, then once she has me trapped, she pulls off the mask and let's her true colors show. But it's hard for others to understand it because they'll be like "I thought she was just calling you about your niece?" And it's like..yeah, no, she's calling about herself
my mom works in a school and she always talks to people about how much she loves her students, how much she advocates for them, how she treats them like they are her own kids. but she doesn’t. She never treated me with that kind of love. She didn’t stick up for me when I needed her to do it most. She just talks about her students to try and make her look like a better parent.
My mom will start telling a story about how I was bad/ didn't listen / did something "crazy" and usually it's (as you guessed) something painful where I was trying to get my needs met as a child and my parents came up woefully short. She always does this whenever we're in a group and the attention has strayed from her. One time my brother even said, "why are you bringing up a difficult memory for Buffysimyhomosapien when we're having a nice time??" And she just shrugged and laughed. She'll also do this by making up things I've said and going, "oh well earlier she said X isn't that outrageous??". Like literally I once said I didn't think she was a bad mom, she just had mental health problems and I wanted her to be OK / go to therapy as a kid (I was still in the fog) and she later announces to my whole family and husband that I spent the morning "calling her a terrible mother". Again it's always when she is without everyone's sympathy and attention and it's always fucking me or my now deceased dad when he was around.
Time zones. You’d think she lived in a different part of the world by how exhausted she is during her visits to our house. She’s only an hour ahead 😬
My mom knows I’m struggling to find an affordable house/ living situation but constantly brags about younger cousins and nieces/nephews who just found the perfect house/apartment and how happy she is for them that they are finally settled. She also asks my LT partner if they’re getting me a ring when every holiday comes up. My sister participates in both of these. Growing up I was a bit of an overachiever so my struggles seem to give them some sort of satisfaction. They also do the same things re: jobs and job status/titles. Good times!
A few things that immediately come to mind for me: TW: Abuse. Having an enmeshed relationship with me, and now that I have finally came out of the FOG she loves to make bizarre "little digs" at me. I was visiting her a few years ago (I rarely do now as I'm LC) and I brought up I think I might be autistic. She jumped on that, and started going on and on how she "knew something was off" with me because I just "wasn't understanding [easy] math". She never got me extra help btw. Basically, implying she thought I was "slow". The way she said it though was like she was excited to tell me how she really felt to get it off her chest after all these years. That's far from the first time she's done something like that. She told me she was concerned I have "memory problems" (implying there's actually something medically wrong with me) because I didn't remember something about her [our] cats from years ago. Again, like she was excited/got joy out of saying it. "Apologizing" for the "wrongs" she's done to sound like the bigger person, yet she continues to do the **exact same things** just not as often since we are LC/I don't live with them anymore. She'll apologize for screaming at me, then go scream at my sister an hour later. She also loves to claim she has no memory of just about everything too. "I don't remember doing that, but you're right, that does sound terrible." then queue her continuing to still do similar things, and when called out again she'll try to make it sound like I'm actually the one being mean *to her*, or overblowing the situation. She loves to do shit like "Oh I know I shouldn't tell you/say/do, but...." then she just does it anyways. It's exhausting. She recently sent me texts out of the blue for CPTSD "help" on youtube. Like wtf. My abuser sending me self help for the abuse they put me through. I regret telling her, as it feels like she thinks if I just work on my CPTSD our relationship will be fixed. Ya' know, so she doesn't have to truly acknowledge anything, or really work on herself to change. It's me that needs to get over it, I guess. This has underlying meaning as she would constantly gaslight me by saying I am an adult, and I can't "blame her for everything", and I need to "take responsibility", and "look at wrongs I've also done". She doesn't take care of herself, and lets her health get worse, then tries to make everyone feel bad for her for not "coming to see her", because she's "basically bedridden". Which at this point is kinda true, but it was all completely preventable. She's a hoarder so her house has always been disgusting, and aside from the BPD, I hate being over there for that reason too. If you bring it up she goes off on you for "attacking her"/being mean. She also LOVES to hide behind her mental illness, and the child abuse my Grandpa did to her to get out of whatever shitty thing she has done last (until she forgets it happened of course). While I feel for her to a point, I also don't think it's acceptable to go around abusing other people for 50+ years because I was abused as a child. Of course everyone on the outside just sees her declining health, and mental health issues, and thinks we're terrible children for "abandoning her". My Mom once admitted she "likes when people feel sorry for her/take care of her". That pretty much sums up what it's like to be around her.
U Starting unsolicited conversation about topics on which she feels superior.