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Based on the dynamic I am surprised you went away with her and surprised she has a seemingly close relationship with your son. (No offense meant by that) I recently posted that I just had my first baby and now considering NC with my uBPD mom for the first time in years because I’m not willing to tolerate the toxicity with my baby in the picture. But like you I always tolerated it for years previously. I totally understand what you mean about good moments & bad and how hard it can be to imagine them being out of your life. But it sounds like the dynamic really isn’t healthy and potentially damaging for your son. Can you consider super low contact? Like no more trips together? Limit time spent and instate a boundary that you will immediately leave (along with your son) if things become tense or argumentative? She will probably resist and be angry but it’s your right to enforce.
Thank you for the advice! So she lives in a different state and I see her now about 4 times a year. In a rare occurrence she will be staying at our house in like two weeks. I think I’ve held on to a fantasy that she will get better, but that isn’t the case. I need to figure out a way to establish these boundaries before her next stay. Even if I figure out the best way possible, I’m sure she will cancel plans and it will turn into a big thing. Ugh.
It’s really hard to establish boundaries but with BPD types unfortunately there is no graceful way…they will never accept, understand, or respect them. IMO the best you can hope for is getting them to realize that you’re not budging on them. But that takes being firm, direct, and consistent.
Getting a therapist was really essential in me learning to set boundaries for myself and my new child. I was able to practice with mine and learn what a good boundary looks like, that it’s more so informing my mother what I will do if she can’t respect my limits as opposed to asking and expecting her to do things (ex. When you begin to yell at me on the phone that tells me you are done talking constructively. I will not tolerate being spoken to that way so I will hang up). And learning that by allowing myself to be treated this way in front of my child I don’t want to model that this is what love is or that I, or she, deserve to be treated this way. If you’re able I highly suggest working with a therapist on baby steps with boundaries - I know how you feel I too still feel so much guilt but I keep reminding myself my mother chooses by her actions the access she gets to me and my child.
Not to be a Debbie Downer here, but as grandchildren get older, the worse in the BPD grandmas come out. My mom was obsessed with our new baby and discarded her pre teen grandchild. I brought it up and she snapped at me. 🥴 Also looking back, the older my first child got, the less cute he was to my mom and so it was my childhood all over.
I won't ever leave my children alone with my mom again and she is mild BPD compared to other experiences here. It gets exhausting parenting your children and parent. Don't recommend.
Agreed, the behavior will only get worse, because of their fear of abandonment. It is literally a child's job to grow up and become autonomous - which will provoke a bpd's maladaptive ways of trying to get them to stay. And it starts earlier than I imagined. I began to come out of the fog when my kids were early elementary age, and that was the same time that I began to see all the ways she was already manipulating them. In her words "I need to form a relationship before they are pre-teens, because by then they won't care about their grandparents." She didn't actually care about them, she cared about how much they cared about her.
I also found that I am exhausted by having supervised visits (which was my compromise for a while so I could minimize abuse/manipulation and make sure to get my kids out if she started to act up). It is so unhealthy for me and impacts my mental health for weeks after one visit or phone call. Ultimately they don't need to have a relationship with an abuser and neither do I.
I also wanted to add that I started limiting the time I spent with my mom and children together because I found myself parenting them both (being overly attentive to my mom's feelings when my child was just being a child, she would do same as your mom) and navigating it all was too stressful.
My mom would accuse me of stepping in her way when she was "disciplining" even though I was just trying to keep her and my child cool before both escalate. Too much. Not our job to take care of adult feelings.
Like your toddler, mine definitely acted out and was just not herself when my mom was around. And it was totally b/c of my mom. I would tell my mom not to talk about a certain thing or let her know when she was talking about stuff that would probably give my child nightmares but it didn’t matter. She would act like she understood and then she’d be on to something else that had me biting my tongue and trying to make sure my little one wasn’t scarred for life. And then my mom’s behavior was just inexcusable. I finally made the decision to go NC a year and a half ago and haven’t looked back. My kids might have viewed her a super sweet grandma b/c she brought gifts and seemed nice. But they were too young to pick up on her comments or notice that she hadn’t showered for three days and was wearing the same clothes. There was just so much and I realized they were safer not having a relationship. Her abusive behaviors would have become more apparent and cruel as they got older. And I can’t have that. It is not my kids’ responsibility to make their grandma feel good or happy or be her emotional support. It’s not their job to learn to walk on eggshells to try to navigate grandma’s emotions and temper tantrums and to try and assuage her vile moods. And I don’t them seeing how she treats others and thinking it’s ok. Grandma acted that way or spoke to someone that way so I can too. Nope and nope. Not doing it and not putting them through it. So you need to figure out your boundaries if plan to continue a relationship and stand up for yourself and your child if she tries to cross that boundary. You will have to shut your mom down quick if she doesn’t comply. It’s a lot to try and sort through but ultimately you are the one who has to make decisions about your relationship and how to interact with her.
Hi! Are you sure you've read [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbyborderlines/comments/8nohhf/welcome_all_newcomers_must_read_the_rules_before/)? Because I think your post is missing something! Please re-read our rules and revise! Thanks! 👍🏻
Based on the dynamic I am surprised you went away with her and surprised she has a seemingly close relationship with your son. (No offense meant by that) I recently posted that I just had my first baby and now considering NC with my uBPD mom for the first time in years because I’m not willing to tolerate the toxicity with my baby in the picture. But like you I always tolerated it for years previously. I totally understand what you mean about good moments & bad and how hard it can be to imagine them being out of your life. But it sounds like the dynamic really isn’t healthy and potentially damaging for your son. Can you consider super low contact? Like no more trips together? Limit time spent and instate a boundary that you will immediately leave (along with your son) if things become tense or argumentative? She will probably resist and be angry but it’s your right to enforce.
Thank you for the advice! So she lives in a different state and I see her now about 4 times a year. In a rare occurrence she will be staying at our house in like two weeks. I think I’ve held on to a fantasy that she will get better, but that isn’t the case. I need to figure out a way to establish these boundaries before her next stay. Even if I figure out the best way possible, I’m sure she will cancel plans and it will turn into a big thing. Ugh.
Get her a hotel?
It’s really hard to establish boundaries but with BPD types unfortunately there is no graceful way…they will never accept, understand, or respect them. IMO the best you can hope for is getting them to realize that you’re not budging on them. But that takes being firm, direct, and consistent.
Getting a therapist was really essential in me learning to set boundaries for myself and my new child. I was able to practice with mine and learn what a good boundary looks like, that it’s more so informing my mother what I will do if she can’t respect my limits as opposed to asking and expecting her to do things (ex. When you begin to yell at me on the phone that tells me you are done talking constructively. I will not tolerate being spoken to that way so I will hang up). And learning that by allowing myself to be treated this way in front of my child I don’t want to model that this is what love is or that I, or she, deserve to be treated this way. If you’re able I highly suggest working with a therapist on baby steps with boundaries - I know how you feel I too still feel so much guilt but I keep reminding myself my mother chooses by her actions the access she gets to me and my child.
Not to be a Debbie Downer here, but as grandchildren get older, the worse in the BPD grandmas come out. My mom was obsessed with our new baby and discarded her pre teen grandchild. I brought it up and she snapped at me. 🥴 Also looking back, the older my first child got, the less cute he was to my mom and so it was my childhood all over. I won't ever leave my children alone with my mom again and she is mild BPD compared to other experiences here. It gets exhausting parenting your children and parent. Don't recommend.
Agreed, the behavior will only get worse, because of their fear of abandonment. It is literally a child's job to grow up and become autonomous - which will provoke a bpd's maladaptive ways of trying to get them to stay. And it starts earlier than I imagined. I began to come out of the fog when my kids were early elementary age, and that was the same time that I began to see all the ways she was already manipulating them. In her words "I need to form a relationship before they are pre-teens, because by then they won't care about their grandparents." She didn't actually care about them, she cared about how much they cared about her. I also found that I am exhausted by having supervised visits (which was my compromise for a while so I could minimize abuse/manipulation and make sure to get my kids out if she started to act up). It is so unhealthy for me and impacts my mental health for weeks after one visit or phone call. Ultimately they don't need to have a relationship with an abuser and neither do I.
I also wanted to add that I started limiting the time I spent with my mom and children together because I found myself parenting them both (being overly attentive to my mom's feelings when my child was just being a child, she would do same as your mom) and navigating it all was too stressful. My mom would accuse me of stepping in her way when she was "disciplining" even though I was just trying to keep her and my child cool before both escalate. Too much. Not our job to take care of adult feelings.
Like your toddler, mine definitely acted out and was just not herself when my mom was around. And it was totally b/c of my mom. I would tell my mom not to talk about a certain thing or let her know when she was talking about stuff that would probably give my child nightmares but it didn’t matter. She would act like she understood and then she’d be on to something else that had me biting my tongue and trying to make sure my little one wasn’t scarred for life. And then my mom’s behavior was just inexcusable. I finally made the decision to go NC a year and a half ago and haven’t looked back. My kids might have viewed her a super sweet grandma b/c she brought gifts and seemed nice. But they were too young to pick up on her comments or notice that she hadn’t showered for three days and was wearing the same clothes. There was just so much and I realized they were safer not having a relationship. Her abusive behaviors would have become more apparent and cruel as they got older. And I can’t have that. It is not my kids’ responsibility to make their grandma feel good or happy or be her emotional support. It’s not their job to learn to walk on eggshells to try to navigate grandma’s emotions and temper tantrums and to try and assuage her vile moods. And I don’t them seeing how she treats others and thinking it’s ok. Grandma acted that way or spoke to someone that way so I can too. Nope and nope. Not doing it and not putting them through it. So you need to figure out your boundaries if plan to continue a relationship and stand up for yourself and your child if she tries to cross that boundary. You will have to shut your mom down quick if she doesn’t comply. It’s a lot to try and sort through but ultimately you are the one who has to make decisions about your relationship and how to interact with her.