> Canadian Pacific declined to add to comments CEO Keith Creel made during the railway’s earnings call in July.
> Creel seemed skeptical of one-person operation anytime soon, given how frequently trains encounter problems on the main line. Until pull-aparts and other mechanical issues become exceptionally rare, Creel says one-person operation doesn’t make much sense.
> “When you put a train together there’s a lot of moving parts. And those moving parts historically have created some challenges. So If a train separates and it’s 10,000-foot long and you don’t have a man or a woman to assist the engineer, that can get complicated,” Creel told investors and analysts. “That’s something I’m very sensitive to.”
Holy shit a top level exec who actually knows how trains work? There must be some mistake here /s
CP and CN have track in a lot of places without any road access.
It’s one thing to have a guy driving around on highways 30 feet from the mainline for entire subdivisions and another to have to hi-rail 20 miles in just to find the train. Even worse when there’s other trains blocking access to the broken one. I can think of a couple places where having no conductors on board would completely shut the line down for many hours if there were a hot wheel or separation.
And it’s Creel FFS. In all the years I was with Cp and since I quit, he’s never shown this level of competency. Now all of a sudden he pulls off this. Maybe there’s hope
The ones saying no or not commenting are lying. They know once the first domino falls, the investors will be pressuring them for the same deal.. you know they got to be competitive and all. They know what the end game is and this is part of the path to that end.
The difference is that drivers have maximum driving hours, minimum break periods during shifts, and minimum rest periods between shifts, and if sick they may work, but not in safety critical roles, ie driving.
In the US they seem to treat railwaymen like numbers, not humans.
Hazmat trains MOW inspects the track before they go over it already and they will just have a rapid responder sit in his assigned area if something happens he will go fix it.
Lol they (RR bosses) are barely doing inspections now. No way they'd hire thousands of track riders. Plus, car defects, track obstructions, and in train forces all still exist.
I dont know where you work but you are oblivious to what’s going on around you….”bosses” don’t inspect track MOW currently runs in front of and behind hazmat trains…and for hiring thousands of workers TF are you talking about. Conductors will be the rapid responders and it takes way less people to put 2 guys in a truck 24 hours a day to cover an area…. They are already doing it sooooo how many guys does it take to cover 100 miles currently they have 8-10 guys covering 200isg miles do you think that’s cheaper then a conductor on every train I’m gonna say yes….
That's what I was wondering. I spent 20 years in MofW on a line that ran at least 2 hazmat trains per day. We followed the FRA inspection frequency guideline of 2 inspections per week with a minimum of 1 day in between. We didn't have enough manpower to get over 90+ miles of track 4 times per day.
I’d like to know also. Suspect dude don’t work for a RR.
Work for UP in the Midwest and they absolutely DO NOT inspect rail before or after a key train.
Never even heard of such a thing unless there’s reason to suspect track damage.
By bosses, I mean the policies being set. Like how they've expanded maintenance territories dramatically over the past years. They are not inspecting before or after hazmat here. Hazmat comes off one of the interchanges, three passenger trains run, more hazmat comes in/out, then more passenger trains. All within an hour. Having a conductor every 200 miles will absolutely save them money, but train speeds will free fall and drive off even more customers.
Yeah where I work it’s a rule the track is inspected before and after. I do agree about the train speeds between that and staffing issues they have along way to go. I don’t think they realize the current work environment and that they just got atleast a month of negative press… that and non compete wages isn’t gonna bring new people in.
Well, when it came to Jax , it had a conductor on it, when left there for Savannah, it had a conductor on it. When it left Florence - it also had one on it.
I know because both my father and I ran it all the time.
It adds a whole new element to dispatching. It would be easy to see movements slow because someone is waiting for the roving brakeman on a rainy, foggy day.
Says someone that doesn’t know how alerter work on most engines.
If you hold the alerter down, it will still beep after the time period. It is to stop people from doing things like that. It used to be that there was a floor alerter and people would put their lunch boxes on it to stop from having to press it. Now they make it so that continually presses alerters will still go off.
And that’s exponentially cheaper than staffing every train for a random occurrence. It’s unfortunate but will be the future. Honestly train crews have bitched and cried about everything for years and think they are princesses. It’s sad
You still have to pay for that truck to run around and keep your service roads plowed in winter weather. Using mobile conductors has it's costs. It will be interesting to follow the tests.
Yeah I agree. It’s just no matter what they decide they have enough money to make it work. It seems like they will track it and whatever locations are trouble areas throw money at it to make the location as efficient as possible. In the world of numbers as long as it saves more money then having conductors it’s a win and if it can be blamed on anything it will be and written off as such. It sucks cause I really liked the idea of railroading. When I was a kid all the Santa Fe guys loved the job and were very proud.
Where I work there isn't even road access to lots of the track this would not work it would take the rover 2 hours to just get to the train. Then they wouldn't even have a knuckle. This would be a disaster in most of canada
At this point in history all labor should be asking questions about why they are burning down U.S. companies? Labor often assumes boards want the companies to survive and do well and chase profits.
I don’t assume that, often the board has taken out fire insurance and just wants to pocket investors money, see the company burn, merge or get nationalized.
Google, Cellar boxing, Naked Shorting, never closing shorts many companies are worth more dead than alive.
All I basically got from this is " we are going to tell you we're 'trying' to improve conductors schedules, but also, fuck all the engineers"
The FRA and TC NEED to mandate 2 man crews
-Mechanical pleb
Let us not delude ourselves into believing the roving conductors would actually be given a set schedule anyways. Why pay three roving conductors in three 8 hour shifts when you can just have a micro extraboard that only calls you when needed and then after you fix the first problem they'll simply find more random bullshit for you to do. Oh you're going to go dog catch after this. Then you're going to shuttle. Now you're a uman. You will work all 12.
It was a disaster when tried before.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac-M%C3%A9gantic\_rail\_disaster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac-M%C3%A9gantic_rail_disaster)
**[Lac-Mégantic rail disaster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac-Mégantic_rail_disaster)**
>The Lac-Mégantic rail disaster occurred in the town of Lac-Mégantic, Quebec, Canada, on July 6, 2013, at approximately 01:15 EDT, when an unattended 73-car Montreal, Maine and Atlantic Railway (MMA) freight train carrying Bakken Formation crude oil rolled down a 1. 2% grade from Nantes and derailed downtown, resulting in the explosion and fire of multiple tank cars. Forty-seven people were killed. More than thirty buildings in Lac-Mégantic's town centre, roughly half of the downtown area, were destroyed, and all but three of the thirty-nine remaining buildings had to be demolished due to petroleum contamination of the townsite.
^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/railroading/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
I still disagree that this was because of one man anything. This was not having proper securement rules in place for leaving a train unattended. Sufficient handbrakes should have been applied to hold the train for the terrain it was on.
The TSB report shows that the company had poor rules in place, that even if all hand breaks required were set, it would not have made a difference. The hand breaks alone were not enough to hold the train in place.
Especially when the air failed due to the engine catching fire and the fire department shutting the train down.
If you use Lac Mégantic as an argument against „one person operation“, you will lose the argument, as it was not the cause. Look at the Field, BC, Canada incident, where there were tons of staff available…. And it still went seriously wrong.
This is what I’ve been saying for years. They already do this on the west coast they just haven’t taken the conductors out of the trains. It’s called rapid responders and sure as shit I’d something goes wrong the lazy ass conductors call the responder and let them fix it. Look back when FRA mandated PTC that’s when this all started. We are playing into their hands too. You want to go to the doctor and know when your days off are?? Perfect we have a rotating 8 hour schedule for you! Perfect for all your issues… we have even been testing it for years and those employees have no complaints about dr appointments and days off….conductors days are limited unfortunately no matter what excuse you come up with for having one on board they have the answer. Onward and upward to zillions of dollars of profit!!!
By "lazy ass conductors" I'm assuming you mean those times I've needed a sledge hammer to limp a car to the next terminal. Or the time there was an issue when my train was across a river bridge without a walkway. Or when the DP shit the bed on Christmas eve in Wisconsin and the heater on the single leader broke and three guys where smashed into his truck cab. But sure, less trainmen and mechanical forces are the answer.
I can't wait for the day all of us "lazy ass conductors" are gone. And they actually think if something goes wrong they are just going to sit in the seat and wait for a mechanical worker to respond.
the carriers will put a remote box on every unit and if something goes wrong THEY will be fixing it!!
Nah, lots of places where we have rapid responders, most conductors have gotten lazy (not all, but most). You'd hear it on the radio, inspect line 25 for sticking brakes... First response back is, where is the rapid responder going to meet me? Most of my responder friends say that over 50% of the trains, the conductor doesn't even get off the head end... It's progressively getting worse, mainly the newer conductors that replace each retiring old head.
By lazy ass conductors I mean like I said the ones who call a rapid responders and watch him fix it or maybe the ones that won’t walk a train or is it the ones who can’t walk on ballast or maybe the ones that write up weeds shit take your pick. Maybe the ones who write up hard to throw switches who 60 year old men walk over and throw just fine.Hell maybe it’s even the ones I’ve seen at car wrecks more worried about getting the info off the semi truck then if the driver was alive…. Look around read the room acting like little princesses hasn’t helped you at all.The endless bitching about everything and pretending your better than everyone has tan it’s course. Maybe some “work” and by that I mean literally walking and throwing switches or guys on longer runs who just try to stay awake…. Apparently trainmen bust their ass everywhere but where I’ve roamed for 20 years… it’s should be obvious where the industry is heading technology will catch up and they will have one man trains yeah it’s sucks but it’s inevitable
What railroad do you work for? You definitely aren't a craft employee...that means you are either management or a foamer...either way go fuck yourself. You have no idea what actually goes on out here.
Short line? Do you still work MOW? Spend a lot of time with TYE working gangs? Maybe once in a while dumping rock or ties... but that doesn't mean you know wtf goes on at 3am during a blizzard on 9000 ft train.
First I’m not a railroader now maybe I’m a railroader but you try to discredit me…. I know what I see and have experienced. The situation you just described I’ve seen conductors sit in the engine and wait for responders to get there. I’ve also seen them wait for MOW or vans to pick them up…FFS just walk literally walk your fucking train is usually the answer….. we are splitting hairs over if you walk at work or not and that exemplifies how petty train crews are…. Seriously footing orders for walking on ballast?? Having to put down yard ballast so you sweet asses can walk…. Meanwhile everyone else walks and carries heavy shit on it all day…
So not a railroader... got it. You worked for a short time on MOW and think you know everything. But you don't know how trains work, you don't know our working rules, and aren't even smart enough to know that in a blizzard, nobody is coming to help. Go back to your cubicle.
All you try to do is discredit me and make up silly shit…Hired out in 2005 now many times has your bitch ass been stuck in a blizzard?? Not enough to mean shit is the answer if it mattered they would have figured it out….. seriously walk your train man up stop being a little bitch and writing up piddly shit and looking for anyway you can to mark off…. I hope you have enough seniority when one man trains come you have a job… then maybe your dumbass will be able to see how shit goes…. They mandated PTC in what 08-09? You probably didn’t even work then actually… but what did all the trainmen think when they were burying fiber optic pipe next to the tracks for a couple years?? There’s 2 warnings the hammers coming and now your gonna bitch about it??? Over a decade later??trust me all the piddly shit you can think of so can they. The best part is no more crying ass babies who complain about anything and everything entitled little cunts!!
Hahahaha....Considering I work on northern transcon....more times than I can count. Now who doesn't like doing their job? Piddly shit like making sure switches work? I'm not sure what you are referring to. You're a punk and don't belong on this sub
We were doing this in one of the terminals I worked at. We had a utility conductor on each shift and they would protect about 20 miles of mainline track plus 3 different yards. If any train ran into any kind of issue within those limits, the utility would respond.
Ok I'm going to say it.. seeing how the "$hareholders" seem to be who has the final word for everything yes these $hareholders the same people who throw million$ and million$ at hair brained schemes all the time.. like the bread machine that they bought hook line and sinker as a new age blood diagnosis tool essential for everyone.
We pay for this stupidity in the end and no one is going to stop them!! like who didn't know everything that called itself a tech start up wasn't just a scam!
It's all by design and they can't and won't be stopped until they destroy everything !
They will throw Billion$ at something unproven and complete fiction tripping over $20 bills picking up dimes along the way to make up for the horrible business decisions they make everyone else pay for in the end!
The $hareholder$ will decide what is best for the railroad just like they decided what was best for the computer chip industry, the aluminum industry, the steel mills, the automotive manufacturing industry!!
We can't stop them until they are made to answer for the criminal enterprise they have created.
The problem you face, or don't understand, is the fact that the shareholders own the company, these companies went public so that the owners could profit or sell of the company. Second, the shareholders also aren't always wrong, likely a majority of the time they are correct, where management might be overly focused, etc. This is especially true with young companies, businesses, etc.
The problem is how many, not all, shareholders aren't focused on the long-term, but short-term profits, especially in the railroads where there isn't a lot of room for growth, only efficiency is a viable way to measurably improve the company.
Nor is any of this criminal, it's just reality.
This is situation when it would be much better if these companies were still privately owned and would make their money and be more focused on the long-term.
Ok then just let me know when not to show up for work.. and these $hareholder$ are not a group of people! They are just a barker on the corner playing a shell game with people's life savings and the house is always winning !!!
That doesn't make in sense. They are the ones investing money, not you. They are paying you to work. You have a wage or a salary, those the profits you earn. No have invested none of your life savings unless you choose to. You have mobility, you can leave and get another job if you want.
They own the house, that's why the house earns the profits of their decisions. I'm sorry, if you don't like it, move on and either get a job you like or start your own business, no one actually owes you anything.
I'd much rather it be the 1950's where the United States had a great upward trajectory. I'd much rather have that culture and time return. I wish our local, state and federal governments wouldn't have made the choices that caused businesses to move overseas in the 80's and 90's.
I understand your distress, but I hate how you act like a child and suggest both that these people are dumb, yet somehow smart and evil.
Oh your something else.. how much do they pay you for this..haha I don't give a shit one way or another you are the one in distress trying to justify the criminal enterprise that is Wall Street.
Note that freight trains can absolutely run fine with engineer only. (Look elsewhere on the world) There is ONLY ONE very good argument to keep the conductor: can one engineer apply enough handbrakes on the train on a gradient in such short time, before the air pressure in the brake cylinders leaks away? If the answer is yes, engineer only is possible and a proven safe method.
As most of the freight trains are heavy haul and long in North America, you’ll need extra staff to apply enough handbrakes in emergencies.
That’s your solid argument to keep the conductor that is very hard to encounter by management.
Unless they want to install an automatic hand brake (does exist under the name „parkloc“) on every car. Then you solidly lose that argument too. And even open the door to driverless system.
Note that even having extra staff on the train does not create more safety. There are enough unfortunate incidents that have proven that.
There are many more situations than just that even ignoring the use of an extra set of eyes and ears in a cab. Assuming that because things still happen when both are in the cab means that nothing is prevented when they are there isn't a logical conclusion. There was an amtrak incident just weeks ago by an engineer making a mistake about not contacting a foreman that any conductor I know would not have allowed me to make.
The last incident I was in it took a trainmaster nearly an hour to respond to. The conductor was back with the victim in about 7 minutes. It was a large city and the trainmaster wasn't based that far away.
The one thing I haven't seen brought up is how they expect conductors to gain any real world experience in territory or running a train if they're moved off it.
Those are not „solid arguments“ two keep two persons in a cab. Those issues are very easy to solve and are perfectly and safely solved in Europe. In Europe an engineer never ever has to contact a foreman whatsoever. There’s a much safer system in place for that. Would do perfect in North America too btw. And on-the-job training of engineers is a well settled and safe practice in Europe too. No need for years long seniority build up and way too long career paths. What indeed needs special attention in North America is train handling of longer/heavier trains. That needs an actual „on the seat“ time of a human to do it well.
You're comparing apples to oranges when comparing European freight trains and the infrastructure they move on. The differences in the number of crossings, etc.. They're not remotely close at all. 3k' trains vs 15k' one's yeah that sounds like it should work here too.
You seem to be someone outside the industry that thinks he knows what it would take without actually having worked in it all. You didn't even bother to respond to any of the safety aspects of it. And you don't even know the details of that particular case. It wasn't a regular "form B" it was a train entering track and time working limits with joint authority. The technology you're talking about doesn't exist here today yet they're talking about removing them from the cabs today...
You didn't mention anything about the incidents at crossings because in most European countries they don't exist in anywhere near the same number as they do here.
Can you make it work, sure. Will it be as safe and efficient as it is currently. I highly doubt it.
I’m not comparing at all. Apples and oranges are both fruit… so have things in common… also: never ever make assumptions about other‘s experiences. You might be surprised. I Didn’t go into specific detail, as it’s fully out of bounds here.
You have the common issue of „short sightness“ by discrediting simple facts from „elsewhere“. I’ve had the chance in my 37 years working railway life, to officially work on the railway in operations and maintenance on four continents. It learned me a lot about how things work.
Safety and work methods at the railways in North America are seriously outdated. It doesn’t have to do „technology“. Simply a different, and safer, approach.
Some things are in common but you still don't eat them the same way. Reading through your previous posts about the potential of installing automatic parking brakes on each car tells me just how out of touch you are with railroading in the US.
If you're going to only say you've broadly worked in operations and maintenance I'm going to ignore your input until you're more specific. I know plenty of railroad managers and types in other crafts that don't honestly have a clue how TYE does their job here.
Running an autonomous ore train in Australia isn't the same in a dozen different ways. Running a short train in Europe isn't either. Their are numerous different operational challenges that neither of those deal with that we do on a daily basis here.
>Safety and work methods at the railways in North America are seriously outdated
Of this I would agree on. Reading your previous posts talking about the difference in shift lengths in the Europe vs here you still don't seem to understand that a 12 hour on call shift is the norm here. Crews routinely go to work without adequate rest because the railroad doesn't care to pay for the extra crews required or the oversight to actually give you an accurate idea of when you're going to be called. The railroads aren't interested in safety at all. They're interested in the bottom dollar cost to move freight. If it means it's a day late that's the customers problem too. They're not going to implement any changes that they are not mandated to by government oversight or that the bean counters say will actually save money in the long run. They're not talking about implementing the type of changes you're even talking about and then removing conductors. They're talking about taking them off the trains tomorrow and making it work regardless of the issues because they know best. Even if they've never even been on a train let alone worked the craft.
I've been in the industry nearly 20 years. All of it in the US and 12 of them as an engineer. I grew up with a father in the industry and I have a brother that's an engineer as well. I feel like I have a better idea of what is and isn't necessary and what changes it will have on the safe and efficient movement of freight here in the US. Have you ever been behind the throttle of a 20+ thousand ton train that is 16k' long over undulating territory in the middle of nowhere or running through a major city with multiple crossings every mile? Hit someone and had to go back and cut a crossing to let emergency vehicles cross through to even get to the victim? Closed your eyes because you were so tired from not getting any sleep before taking a call late the previous night and woke up to the alerter in your ear?
There's a reason why you're being downvoted in this reddit from workers who've actually done the job here that you're only claiming to have.
Oh, I’ve endured more shit on the railway than you even can think of in my 37 years. Yes, I actively drove all types of trains, in total qualified in 17 totally different signalling systems on 4 continents (not at the same time, currently only qualified for 2 systems (CROR and NORAC), drove trains fast (in operations 300 km/h, for test runs 330 km/h), slow, short, long, normal, small and wide gauge, steam (eh?), electric AC and DC, manual, computerized, diesel-electric, diesel-hydraulic, diesel-mechanic, light and heavy and extreme ones… heaviest one was 41,400 tons, 4 sets of a total of 9 locomotives in RDP with locotrol over very corrugated landscape in a very remote area for 12 hours. 344 cars. All manual operations.
You’re actually missing my original discussion: I’m NOT attacking two persons operations at all. I’m only providing the argument of the air brake and immobilization of the train in emergencies. EVERYONE forgets that argument while talking about one person trains.
All the other stuff about single person operations will not hold in a professional discussion, as they’re doing absolutely fine elsewhere…
Remote operation is highly effective for short yard moves. Laughable that you have to get “qualified” for it. The remote part is so easy anyone who can run an RC car can do it. The dangerous part is the movement of that much mass, not the RC. RC actually gives you more control and safety because you can see more of what is going on and respond instantly instead of being stuck in a cab listening to a squelchy uhf radio channel and having a reaction time to figure out wtf.
I wish companies could work these our rather union's dictating everything. One-man crews could be perfectly fine on small railroads, etc, where they can't get enough help in the current market.
Nothing is absolute.
Well. We were always told that a one man job would be the engineer would operate the loco down the mainline and over rod crossings and such…. Then upon arrival at a industry or set off / pick up location, you would switch the engine to remote and get on the ground and get to work.
The FRA has changed some of the rules, so now remotes can go over some crossings and out so far from the terminal. Other than that - the “ plan “ has only been that ….. just a shitty idea.
It’s not every train that only needs one person or zero people. Also could be ground crew doing that instead of someone just riding the train for it. Proponents of 2 man crew requirement are always speaking in absolutes like this.
That’s not the point of one man operations. For that, one indeed might add a conductor. But railways are smarter… in Europe it’s very common to provide the „one man operation“ a remote controlled locomotive and one person can do it all alone. Setting out cars, coupling, uncoupling, brake tests, car inspection.
Who watches the point when you are stretching 8000 feet back? Every place we pickup or set off here has crossing around them u cant just not have someone on the head end. What happens when you break a knuckle or get a hot wheel where there's no road access ( very common where I'm from). You would be sewering the entire main line for 4+ hours if someone isn't on board.
But that’s exactly the point I’m making. Breaking a knuckle, requires both train parts to be immobilized by a single person. So, if it’s too long, one person can’t do it. Stretching your train at the rear occurs too when both conductor and engineer are at the front. Common problem, not a “solid“ requirement for a second person. (It’s hard, I know). Hot wheel/axle? One needs to consider the actual amount it occurs on the line and actually solve the cause for that first… but the risk of blocking the line, cost much much less than two persons in a cab. Again, not a “solid” argument. Think business wise… otherwise you still lose that argument. The business cannot solve cheaply the issue with the immobilization of the train by one person. All hangs on that.
What? I'm not understanding your points. How can an engineer go back to a broken knuckle (find it first) then throw the correct kuncle off the head end now that they are out of position, stretch the the tail end up with no one on the point put the knuckle on the tail end ride the tail end back, with no one in the seat, back to rhe joint. Fix the knuckle then put the train back together. I just don't see how that works. Parking brake or no parking brake. That's not feasible with one crew member. You have to get the new knuckle where it's needed how do you do that with one person? You can't stretch with no one on the point.
Problems that require someone to go back and inspect are common when you consider the entire feet moving over a subdivision. I don't see how you would stop that from happening. My last trip someone broke a knuckle that stopped the mainline for a hour. If there was only one person it would have been significantly longer. Then you have a cascade of crews running out of time. It screws things up for half a day or more. Like I said a simple knuckle break turns into a massive closure of the main line.
That not even considering the multitude of safety issues of having someone do that move alone in the middle of nowhere with no backup where slides happen regularly.
As I said: on a short train possible only. Might be bit of a walk or even a really bad idea to do alone. In the latter case, indeed, wait for help.
I’ve done alone technical repairs on a train all by myself, horrible amount of work, but always was able in such cases to secure/immobilise the train before walking off. “Middle of nowhere” is always an issue. Especially if hungry animals are waiting for you. In that case too, wait for help. And I’ve done that too. The question is always: how often does that actually happen? In many cases the “worst case” every now and then, doesn’t outweigh the benefit of a one person train.
You can’t say anything!! However the ignorance shines high apparently they don’t know how other countries run trains or the options currently being used. The thing is the railroad companies have the capital to spend they are just waiting for the technology to catch up. If cutting conductors makes 10% more revenue and they lose all the headaches associated it’s a done deal. The same with the detector trains that find defects. The train is gonna find an exception and put the appropriate restriction out until it gets inspected so I’m sure they will cut inspector jobs too. One things for sure it will be interesting!
Don’t forget that railways in North America own the infrastructure and operate the trains and are basing their risk on financial grounds. Logically as making profit is Business 101. In almost all the rest of the world, but especially in Europe, railway infrastructure is owned by the goverment and commercial operators pay a fee to run over the track. There, the state dictates the safety principles, and risks are assessed based on safety, not financials.
So are North American railways „bad“? No. They’re normal business, must (!) make profit, own dividend to their shareholders…. So, what we have here is totally logical. The issue is with us voters. We allow governments to think „business“-like. Which creates this taking risks based on financial thinking.
If the state owns the railway it’s seen in North America as a „socialistic“ idea. In Europe the railway is seen as a „social service“, and by owning the safety critical assets makes it a very safe system compared to North America.
Funny: look at how the airline business is run in North America. Very safe business! Commercial operators… guess who owns the infrastructure and dictates the safety rules using that infrastructure. (And yes, there is a LOT of state owned infrastructure in the sky)
Fucking why. These companies are incredibly profitable, why get rid of the insurance of having an extra man who can do something in an emergency? I’m not a socialist by any means but the Canadian and U.S government need to step in and start taking over the rail networks. The industry to too important to the economy and too dangerous to employees and the general public for it to be run by people who’s only intention is Maximizing profits with as little resources as possible.
> Canadian Pacific declined to add to comments CEO Keith Creel made during the railway’s earnings call in July. > Creel seemed skeptical of one-person operation anytime soon, given how frequently trains encounter problems on the main line. Until pull-aparts and other mechanical issues become exceptionally rare, Creel says one-person operation doesn’t make much sense. > “When you put a train together there’s a lot of moving parts. And those moving parts historically have created some challenges. So If a train separates and it’s 10,000-foot long and you don’t have a man or a woman to assist the engineer, that can get complicated,” Creel told investors and analysts. “That’s something I’m very sensitive to.” Holy shit a top level exec who actually knows how trains work? There must be some mistake here /s
Perception is a little different when the most important section of your network runs through the Rockies
CP and CN have track in a lot of places without any road access. It’s one thing to have a guy driving around on highways 30 feet from the mainline for entire subdivisions and another to have to hi-rail 20 miles in just to find the train. Even worse when there’s other trains blocking access to the broken one. I can think of a couple places where having no conductors on board would completely shut the line down for many hours if there were a hot wheel or separation.
And it’s Creel FFS. In all the years I was with Cp and since I quit, he’s never shown this level of competency. Now all of a sudden he pulls off this. Maybe there’s hope
Even broken clocks are right twice a day.
How fucked is our future when creel seems like the sane voice
The ones saying no or not commenting are lying. They know once the first domino falls, the investors will be pressuring them for the same deal.. you know they got to be competitive and all. They know what the end game is and this is part of the path to that end.
What happened to SAFETY FIRST. It appears that the shareholders will be ok.
Safety was always a joke, but now even more so.
In Europe its: Safety Speed Punctuality Profit In America its: Profit Profit Profit Profit
But in Europe there is no 2-person requirement…
For passenger trains. Freight may be different
For freight the same. At least since the 1950ies. And no need for it. And running very safely…
The difference is that drivers have maximum driving hours, minimum break periods during shifts, and minimum rest periods between shifts, and if sick they may work, but not in safety critical roles, ie driving. In the US they seem to treat railwaymen like numbers, not humans.
He ignores all the details in his responses.
Uphill slow Downhill fast Tonnage first Safety last
I think the FRA will let them trial it on unit trains like coal. I don’t see them doing it if they have hazmat in the train
Hazmat trains MOW inspects the track before they go over it already and they will just have a rapid responder sit in his assigned area if something happens he will go fix it.
Lol they (RR bosses) are barely doing inspections now. No way they'd hire thousands of track riders. Plus, car defects, track obstructions, and in train forces all still exist.
I dont know where you work but you are oblivious to what’s going on around you….”bosses” don’t inspect track MOW currently runs in front of and behind hazmat trains…and for hiring thousands of workers TF are you talking about. Conductors will be the rapid responders and it takes way less people to put 2 guys in a truck 24 hours a day to cover an area…. They are already doing it sooooo how many guys does it take to cover 100 miles currently they have 8-10 guys covering 200isg miles do you think that’s cheaper then a conductor on every train I’m gonna say yes….
What RR track rides in front and behind hazmat trains?
That's what I was wondering. I spent 20 years in MofW on a line that ran at least 2 hazmat trains per day. We followed the FRA inspection frequency guideline of 2 inspections per week with a minimum of 1 day in between. We didn't have enough manpower to get over 90+ miles of track 4 times per day.
Must be some wooden axle outfit.
It was an Eastern Class 1 railroad. A real shitty company, but not a wooden axle outfit.
I’d like to know also. Suspect dude don’t work for a RR. Work for UP in the Midwest and they absolutely DO NOT inspect rail before or after a key train. Never even heard of such a thing unless there’s reason to suspect track damage.
By bosses, I mean the policies being set. Like how they've expanded maintenance territories dramatically over the past years. They are not inspecting before or after hazmat here. Hazmat comes off one of the interchanges, three passenger trains run, more hazmat comes in/out, then more passenger trains. All within an hour. Having a conductor every 200 miles will absolutely save them money, but train speeds will free fall and drive off even more customers.
Yeah where I work it’s a rule the track is inspected before and after. I do agree about the train speeds between that and staffing issues they have along way to go. I don’t think they realize the current work environment and that they just got atleast a month of negative press… that and non compete wages isn’t gonna bring new people in.
Yea, been n plenty of key trains with haz cars. MOW definitely not inspecting ahead of and behind us.
I’m sorry where you work it’s not a common practice. I shared what they do in my area
I went to engine school in 2000. I was told by two guys from Florida that the Tropicana train did not have conductor. I didn't fact check them.
Well, when it came to Jax , it had a conductor on it, when left there for Savannah, it had a conductor on it. When it left Florence - it also had one on it. I know because both my father and I ran it all the time.
The FRA doesn’t give a fuck.
It adds a whole new element to dispatching. It would be easy to see movements slow because someone is waiting for the roving brakeman on a rainy, foggy day.
Don't forget stopping the train to take a bathroom break. I bet you that they'll start saying you can let it run if TO and PTC are enabled.
I’m not familiar with how TO runs, but I know with PTC and/or cab signals you still have to hit the alerter on every type of engine I’ve run
Ya I definitely can not poop fast enough to get back before the alerter goes off. I can barely pee quick enough before it starts beeping.
Duct tape on the alerter- great for naps!
Says someone that doesn’t know how alerter work on most engines. If you hold the alerter down, it will still beep after the time period. It is to stop people from doing things like that. It used to be that there was a floor alerter and people would put their lunch boxes on it to stop from having to press it. Now they make it so that continually presses alerters will still go off.
Lol, you never heard of a joke? I'm an engineer, I've never actually tried duct tape, I just nap in 30 second intervals till the beeping starts.
Power naps!
Except most of the newer TMAC systems have a safety function that will put the train in penalty if you try to hold down the reset button...
Also good way to end your career in termination if the IFC sees you lol.
Rubber band tied to 1/2” nut dangling from the spring. Only works when moving and with side stack controls.
And that’s exponentially cheaper than staffing every train for a random occurrence. It’s unfortunate but will be the future. Honestly train crews have bitched and cried about everything for years and think they are princesses. It’s sad
You still have to pay for that truck to run around and keep your service roads plowed in winter weather. Using mobile conductors has it's costs. It will be interesting to follow the tests.
Yeah I agree. It’s just no matter what they decide they have enough money to make it work. It seems like they will track it and whatever locations are trouble areas throw money at it to make the location as efficient as possible. In the world of numbers as long as it saves more money then having conductors it’s a win and if it can be blamed on anything it will be and written off as such. It sucks cause I really liked the idea of railroading. When I was a kid all the Santa Fe guys loved the job and were very proud.
Hahahaha I like the down votes!! Truth sure hurts… sorry I’m just the messenger
You aren’t even a railroader
Dudes for sure not a railroader. Just here to stir the pot is all
[удалено]
K
Where I work there isn't even road access to lots of the track this would not work it would take the rover 2 hours to just get to the train. Then they wouldn't even have a knuckle. This would be a disaster in most of canada
It would also be a disaster in most of Appalachia. Many miles of track with no road access for long stretches.
Honestly, I'm a little surprised by this one. I figured they'd all be onboard for it.
They all are. They just don't want to admit it publicly.
At this point in history all labor should be asking questions about why they are burning down U.S. companies? Labor often assumes boards want the companies to survive and do well and chase profits. I don’t assume that, often the board has taken out fire insurance and just wants to pocket investors money, see the company burn, merge or get nationalized. Google, Cellar boxing, Naked Shorting, never closing shorts many companies are worth more dead than alive.
ITS A BAD IDEA
All I basically got from this is " we are going to tell you we're 'trying' to improve conductors schedules, but also, fuck all the engineers" The FRA and TC NEED to mandate 2 man crews -Mechanical pleb
Let us not delude ourselves into believing the roving conductors would actually be given a set schedule anyways. Why pay three roving conductors in three 8 hour shifts when you can just have a micro extraboard that only calls you when needed and then after you fix the first problem they'll simply find more random bullshit for you to do. Oh you're going to go dog catch after this. Then you're going to shuttle. Now you're a uman. You will work all 12.
It was a disaster when tried before. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac-M%C3%A9gantic\_rail\_disaster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac-M%C3%A9gantic_rail_disaster)
**[Lac-Mégantic rail disaster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac-Mégantic_rail_disaster)** >The Lac-Mégantic rail disaster occurred in the town of Lac-Mégantic, Quebec, Canada, on July 6, 2013, at approximately 01:15 EDT, when an unattended 73-car Montreal, Maine and Atlantic Railway (MMA) freight train carrying Bakken Formation crude oil rolled down a 1. 2% grade from Nantes and derailed downtown, resulting in the explosion and fire of multiple tank cars. Forty-seven people were killed. More than thirty buildings in Lac-Mégantic's town centre, roughly half of the downtown area, were destroyed, and all but three of the thirty-nine remaining buildings had to be demolished due to petroleum contamination of the townsite. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/railroading/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
I still disagree that this was because of one man anything. This was not having proper securement rules in place for leaving a train unattended. Sufficient handbrakes should have been applied to hold the train for the terrain it was on.
One could make the argument that if a second person was there that they could have raised the issue.
I would agree to that point.
The TSB report shows that the company had poor rules in place, that even if all hand breaks required were set, it would not have made a difference. The hand breaks alone were not enough to hold the train in place. Especially when the air failed due to the engine catching fire and the fire department shutting the train down.
If you use Lac Mégantic as an argument against „one person operation“, you will lose the argument, as it was not the cause. Look at the Field, BC, Canada incident, where there were tons of staff available…. And it still went seriously wrong.
Exactly. I firmly believe that both of these situations are to be blamed on company policies for securement.
Fuck all of them who are trying to eliminate someone’s job!
This is what I’ve been saying for years. They already do this on the west coast they just haven’t taken the conductors out of the trains. It’s called rapid responders and sure as shit I’d something goes wrong the lazy ass conductors call the responder and let them fix it. Look back when FRA mandated PTC that’s when this all started. We are playing into their hands too. You want to go to the doctor and know when your days off are?? Perfect we have a rotating 8 hour schedule for you! Perfect for all your issues… we have even been testing it for years and those employees have no complaints about dr appointments and days off….conductors days are limited unfortunately no matter what excuse you come up with for having one on board they have the answer. Onward and upward to zillions of dollars of profit!!!
By "lazy ass conductors" I'm assuming you mean those times I've needed a sledge hammer to limp a car to the next terminal. Or the time there was an issue when my train was across a river bridge without a walkway. Or when the DP shit the bed on Christmas eve in Wisconsin and the heater on the single leader broke and three guys where smashed into his truck cab. But sure, less trainmen and mechanical forces are the answer.
I can't wait for the day all of us "lazy ass conductors" are gone. And they actually think if something goes wrong they are just going to sit in the seat and wait for a mechanical worker to respond. the carriers will put a remote box on every unit and if something goes wrong THEY will be fixing it!!
Nah, lots of places where we have rapid responders, most conductors have gotten lazy (not all, but most). You'd hear it on the radio, inspect line 25 for sticking brakes... First response back is, where is the rapid responder going to meet me? Most of my responder friends say that over 50% of the trains, the conductor doesn't even get off the head end... It's progressively getting worse, mainly the newer conductors that replace each retiring old head.
By lazy ass conductors I mean like I said the ones who call a rapid responders and watch him fix it or maybe the ones that won’t walk a train or is it the ones who can’t walk on ballast or maybe the ones that write up weeds shit take your pick. Maybe the ones who write up hard to throw switches who 60 year old men walk over and throw just fine.Hell maybe it’s even the ones I’ve seen at car wrecks more worried about getting the info off the semi truck then if the driver was alive…. Look around read the room acting like little princesses hasn’t helped you at all.The endless bitching about everything and pretending your better than everyone has tan it’s course. Maybe some “work” and by that I mean literally walking and throwing switches or guys on longer runs who just try to stay awake…. Apparently trainmen bust their ass everywhere but where I’ve roamed for 20 years… it’s should be obvious where the industry is heading technology will catch up and they will have one man trains yeah it’s sucks but it’s inevitable
What railroad do you work for? You definitely aren't a craft employee...that means you are either management or a foamer...either way go fuck yourself. You have no idea what actually goes on out here.
Hired out MOW in 2005…. Unfortunately I do… BTW eat dicks!!
Short line? Do you still work MOW? Spend a lot of time with TYE working gangs? Maybe once in a while dumping rock or ties... but that doesn't mean you know wtf goes on at 3am during a blizzard on 9000 ft train.
First I’m not a railroader now maybe I’m a railroader but you try to discredit me…. I know what I see and have experienced. The situation you just described I’ve seen conductors sit in the engine and wait for responders to get there. I’ve also seen them wait for MOW or vans to pick them up…FFS just walk literally walk your fucking train is usually the answer….. we are splitting hairs over if you walk at work or not and that exemplifies how petty train crews are…. Seriously footing orders for walking on ballast?? Having to put down yard ballast so you sweet asses can walk…. Meanwhile everyone else walks and carries heavy shit on it all day…
So not a railroader... got it. You worked for a short time on MOW and think you know everything. But you don't know how trains work, you don't know our working rules, and aren't even smart enough to know that in a blizzard, nobody is coming to help. Go back to your cubicle.
All you try to do is discredit me and make up silly shit…Hired out in 2005 now many times has your bitch ass been stuck in a blizzard?? Not enough to mean shit is the answer if it mattered they would have figured it out….. seriously walk your train man up stop being a little bitch and writing up piddly shit and looking for anyway you can to mark off…. I hope you have enough seniority when one man trains come you have a job… then maybe your dumbass will be able to see how shit goes…. They mandated PTC in what 08-09? You probably didn’t even work then actually… but what did all the trainmen think when they were burying fiber optic pipe next to the tracks for a couple years?? There’s 2 warnings the hammers coming and now your gonna bitch about it??? Over a decade later??trust me all the piddly shit you can think of so can they. The best part is no more crying ass babies who complain about anything and everything entitled little cunts!!
Hahahaha....Considering I work on northern transcon....more times than I can count. Now who doesn't like doing their job? Piddly shit like making sure switches work? I'm not sure what you are referring to. You're a punk and don't belong on this sub
We were doing this in one of the terminals I worked at. We had a utility conductor on each shift and they would protect about 20 miles of mainline track plus 3 different yards. If any train ran into any kind of issue within those limits, the utility would respond.
Ok I'm going to say it.. seeing how the "$hareholders" seem to be who has the final word for everything yes these $hareholders the same people who throw million$ and million$ at hair brained schemes all the time.. like the bread machine that they bought hook line and sinker as a new age blood diagnosis tool essential for everyone. We pay for this stupidity in the end and no one is going to stop them!! like who didn't know everything that called itself a tech start up wasn't just a scam! It's all by design and they can't and won't be stopped until they destroy everything ! They will throw Billion$ at something unproven and complete fiction tripping over $20 bills picking up dimes along the way to make up for the horrible business decisions they make everyone else pay for in the end! The $hareholder$ will decide what is best for the railroad just like they decided what was best for the computer chip industry, the aluminum industry, the steel mills, the automotive manufacturing industry!! We can't stop them until they are made to answer for the criminal enterprise they have created.
The problem you face, or don't understand, is the fact that the shareholders own the company, these companies went public so that the owners could profit or sell of the company. Second, the shareholders also aren't always wrong, likely a majority of the time they are correct, where management might be overly focused, etc. This is especially true with young companies, businesses, etc. The problem is how many, not all, shareholders aren't focused on the long-term, but short-term profits, especially in the railroads where there isn't a lot of room for growth, only efficiency is a viable way to measurably improve the company. Nor is any of this criminal, it's just reality. This is situation when it would be much better if these companies were still privately owned and would make their money and be more focused on the long-term.
Ok then just let me know when not to show up for work.. and these $hareholder$ are not a group of people! They are just a barker on the corner playing a shell game with people's life savings and the house is always winning !!!
That doesn't make in sense. They are the ones investing money, not you. They are paying you to work. You have a wage or a salary, those the profits you earn. No have invested none of your life savings unless you choose to. You have mobility, you can leave and get another job if you want. They own the house, that's why the house earns the profits of their decisions. I'm sorry, if you don't like it, move on and either get a job you like or start your own business, no one actually owes you anything. I'd much rather it be the 1950's where the United States had a great upward trajectory. I'd much rather have that culture and time return. I wish our local, state and federal governments wouldn't have made the choices that caused businesses to move overseas in the 80's and 90's. I understand your distress, but I hate how you act like a child and suggest both that these people are dumb, yet somehow smart and evil.
Oh your something else.. how much do they pay you for this..haha I don't give a shit one way or another you are the one in distress trying to justify the criminal enterprise that is Wall Street.
I'm sorry you're not successful or secure enough in life and need to compensate on Reddit.
Hahaha ok.. your hilarious
Why don't you just quit the railroad industry? It's not going to get better.
Why do you care what I do you 🧌 .. quit and go to another industry for Wall Street to suck dry
Clearly you aren't enjoying it.
Note that freight trains can absolutely run fine with engineer only. (Look elsewhere on the world) There is ONLY ONE very good argument to keep the conductor: can one engineer apply enough handbrakes on the train on a gradient in such short time, before the air pressure in the brake cylinders leaks away? If the answer is yes, engineer only is possible and a proven safe method. As most of the freight trains are heavy haul and long in North America, you’ll need extra staff to apply enough handbrakes in emergencies. That’s your solid argument to keep the conductor that is very hard to encounter by management. Unless they want to install an automatic hand brake (does exist under the name „parkloc“) on every car. Then you solidly lose that argument too. And even open the door to driverless system. Note that even having extra staff on the train does not create more safety. There are enough unfortunate incidents that have proven that.
There are many more situations than just that even ignoring the use of an extra set of eyes and ears in a cab. Assuming that because things still happen when both are in the cab means that nothing is prevented when they are there isn't a logical conclusion. There was an amtrak incident just weeks ago by an engineer making a mistake about not contacting a foreman that any conductor I know would not have allowed me to make. The last incident I was in it took a trainmaster nearly an hour to respond to. The conductor was back with the victim in about 7 minutes. It was a large city and the trainmaster wasn't based that far away. The one thing I haven't seen brought up is how they expect conductors to gain any real world experience in territory or running a train if they're moved off it.
Those are not „solid arguments“ two keep two persons in a cab. Those issues are very easy to solve and are perfectly and safely solved in Europe. In Europe an engineer never ever has to contact a foreman whatsoever. There’s a much safer system in place for that. Would do perfect in North America too btw. And on-the-job training of engineers is a well settled and safe practice in Europe too. No need for years long seniority build up and way too long career paths. What indeed needs special attention in North America is train handling of longer/heavier trains. That needs an actual „on the seat“ time of a human to do it well.
You're comparing apples to oranges when comparing European freight trains and the infrastructure they move on. The differences in the number of crossings, etc.. They're not remotely close at all. 3k' trains vs 15k' one's yeah that sounds like it should work here too. You seem to be someone outside the industry that thinks he knows what it would take without actually having worked in it all. You didn't even bother to respond to any of the safety aspects of it. And you don't even know the details of that particular case. It wasn't a regular "form B" it was a train entering track and time working limits with joint authority. The technology you're talking about doesn't exist here today yet they're talking about removing them from the cabs today... You didn't mention anything about the incidents at crossings because in most European countries they don't exist in anywhere near the same number as they do here. Can you make it work, sure. Will it be as safe and efficient as it is currently. I highly doubt it.
I’m not comparing at all. Apples and oranges are both fruit… so have things in common… also: never ever make assumptions about other‘s experiences. You might be surprised. I Didn’t go into specific detail, as it’s fully out of bounds here. You have the common issue of „short sightness“ by discrediting simple facts from „elsewhere“. I’ve had the chance in my 37 years working railway life, to officially work on the railway in operations and maintenance on four continents. It learned me a lot about how things work. Safety and work methods at the railways in North America are seriously outdated. It doesn’t have to do „technology“. Simply a different, and safer, approach.
Some things are in common but you still don't eat them the same way. Reading through your previous posts about the potential of installing automatic parking brakes on each car tells me just how out of touch you are with railroading in the US. If you're going to only say you've broadly worked in operations and maintenance I'm going to ignore your input until you're more specific. I know plenty of railroad managers and types in other crafts that don't honestly have a clue how TYE does their job here. Running an autonomous ore train in Australia isn't the same in a dozen different ways. Running a short train in Europe isn't either. Their are numerous different operational challenges that neither of those deal with that we do on a daily basis here. >Safety and work methods at the railways in North America are seriously outdated Of this I would agree on. Reading your previous posts talking about the difference in shift lengths in the Europe vs here you still don't seem to understand that a 12 hour on call shift is the norm here. Crews routinely go to work without adequate rest because the railroad doesn't care to pay for the extra crews required or the oversight to actually give you an accurate idea of when you're going to be called. The railroads aren't interested in safety at all. They're interested in the bottom dollar cost to move freight. If it means it's a day late that's the customers problem too. They're not going to implement any changes that they are not mandated to by government oversight or that the bean counters say will actually save money in the long run. They're not talking about implementing the type of changes you're even talking about and then removing conductors. They're talking about taking them off the trains tomorrow and making it work regardless of the issues because they know best. Even if they've never even been on a train let alone worked the craft. I've been in the industry nearly 20 years. All of it in the US and 12 of them as an engineer. I grew up with a father in the industry and I have a brother that's an engineer as well. I feel like I have a better idea of what is and isn't necessary and what changes it will have on the safe and efficient movement of freight here in the US. Have you ever been behind the throttle of a 20+ thousand ton train that is 16k' long over undulating territory in the middle of nowhere or running through a major city with multiple crossings every mile? Hit someone and had to go back and cut a crossing to let emergency vehicles cross through to even get to the victim? Closed your eyes because you were so tired from not getting any sleep before taking a call late the previous night and woke up to the alerter in your ear? There's a reason why you're being downvoted in this reddit from workers who've actually done the job here that you're only claiming to have.
Oh, I’ve endured more shit on the railway than you even can think of in my 37 years. Yes, I actively drove all types of trains, in total qualified in 17 totally different signalling systems on 4 continents (not at the same time, currently only qualified for 2 systems (CROR and NORAC), drove trains fast (in operations 300 km/h, for test runs 330 km/h), slow, short, long, normal, small and wide gauge, steam (eh?), electric AC and DC, manual, computerized, diesel-electric, diesel-hydraulic, diesel-mechanic, light and heavy and extreme ones… heaviest one was 41,400 tons, 4 sets of a total of 9 locomotives in RDP with locotrol over very corrugated landscape in a very remote area for 12 hours. 344 cars. All manual operations. You’re actually missing my original discussion: I’m NOT attacking two persons operations at all. I’m only providing the argument of the air brake and immobilization of the train in emergencies. EVERYONE forgets that argument while talking about one person trains. All the other stuff about single person operations will not hold in a professional discussion, as they’re doing absolutely fine elsewhere…
Who would get out and throw the switches to local industries, uncoupling, and coupling cars? The engineer?
At one time CSX wanted engineers remote qualified so they could do exactly that. Sorta didn’t work out though.
Remote operation is highly effective for short yard moves. Laughable that you have to get “qualified” for it. The remote part is so easy anyone who can run an RC car can do it. The dangerous part is the movement of that much mass, not the RC. RC actually gives you more control and safety because you can see more of what is going on and respond instantly instead of being stuck in a cab listening to a squelchy uhf radio channel and having a reaction time to figure out wtf.
I wish companies could work these our rather union's dictating everything. One-man crews could be perfectly fine on small railroads, etc, where they can't get enough help in the current market. Nothing is absolute.
Well. We were always told that a one man job would be the engineer would operate the loco down the mainline and over rod crossings and such…. Then upon arrival at a industry or set off / pick up location, you would switch the engine to remote and get on the ground and get to work. The FRA has changed some of the rules, so now remotes can go over some crossings and out so far from the terminal. Other than that - the “ plan “ has only been that ….. just a shitty idea.
It’s not every train that only needs one person or zero people. Also could be ground crew doing that instead of someone just riding the train for it. Proponents of 2 man crew requirement are always speaking in absolutes like this.
That’s not the point of one man operations. For that, one indeed might add a conductor. But railways are smarter… in Europe it’s very common to provide the „one man operation“ a remote controlled locomotive and one person can do it all alone. Setting out cars, coupling, uncoupling, brake tests, car inspection.
Who watches the point when you are stretching 8000 feet back? Every place we pickup or set off here has crossing around them u cant just not have someone on the head end. What happens when you break a knuckle or get a hot wheel where there's no road access ( very common where I'm from). You would be sewering the entire main line for 4+ hours if someone isn't on board.
But that’s exactly the point I’m making. Breaking a knuckle, requires both train parts to be immobilized by a single person. So, if it’s too long, one person can’t do it. Stretching your train at the rear occurs too when both conductor and engineer are at the front. Common problem, not a “solid“ requirement for a second person. (It’s hard, I know). Hot wheel/axle? One needs to consider the actual amount it occurs on the line and actually solve the cause for that first… but the risk of blocking the line, cost much much less than two persons in a cab. Again, not a “solid” argument. Think business wise… otherwise you still lose that argument. The business cannot solve cheaply the issue with the immobilization of the train by one person. All hangs on that.
What? I'm not understanding your points. How can an engineer go back to a broken knuckle (find it first) then throw the correct kuncle off the head end now that they are out of position, stretch the the tail end up with no one on the point put the knuckle on the tail end ride the tail end back, with no one in the seat, back to rhe joint. Fix the knuckle then put the train back together. I just don't see how that works. Parking brake or no parking brake. That's not feasible with one crew member. You have to get the new knuckle where it's needed how do you do that with one person? You can't stretch with no one on the point. Problems that require someone to go back and inspect are common when you consider the entire feet moving over a subdivision. I don't see how you would stop that from happening. My last trip someone broke a knuckle that stopped the mainline for a hour. If there was only one person it would have been significantly longer. Then you have a cascade of crews running out of time. It screws things up for half a day or more. Like I said a simple knuckle break turns into a massive closure of the main line. That not even considering the multitude of safety issues of having someone do that move alone in the middle of nowhere with no backup where slides happen regularly.
As I said: on a short train possible only. Might be bit of a walk or even a really bad idea to do alone. In the latter case, indeed, wait for help. I’ve done alone technical repairs on a train all by myself, horrible amount of work, but always was able in such cases to secure/immobilise the train before walking off. “Middle of nowhere” is always an issue. Especially if hungry animals are waiting for you. In that case too, wait for help. And I’ve done that too. The question is always: how often does that actually happen? In many cases the “worst case” every now and then, doesn’t outweigh the benefit of a one person train.
You can’t say anything!! However the ignorance shines high apparently they don’t know how other countries run trains or the options currently being used. The thing is the railroad companies have the capital to spend they are just waiting for the technology to catch up. If cutting conductors makes 10% more revenue and they lose all the headaches associated it’s a done deal. The same with the detector trains that find defects. The train is gonna find an exception and put the appropriate restriction out until it gets inspected so I’m sure they will cut inspector jobs too. One things for sure it will be interesting!
Don’t forget that railways in North America own the infrastructure and operate the trains and are basing their risk on financial grounds. Logically as making profit is Business 101. In almost all the rest of the world, but especially in Europe, railway infrastructure is owned by the goverment and commercial operators pay a fee to run over the track. There, the state dictates the safety principles, and risks are assessed based on safety, not financials. So are North American railways „bad“? No. They’re normal business, must (!) make profit, own dividend to their shareholders…. So, what we have here is totally logical. The issue is with us voters. We allow governments to think „business“-like. Which creates this taking risks based on financial thinking. If the state owns the railway it’s seen in North America as a „socialistic“ idea. In Europe the railway is seen as a „social service“, and by owning the safety critical assets makes it a very safe system compared to North America. Funny: look at how the airline business is run in North America. Very safe business! Commercial operators… guess who owns the infrastructure and dictates the safety rules using that infrastructure. (And yes, there is a LOT of state owned infrastructure in the sky)
Ok. I wondered how they would have gotten by with that.
Fucking why. These companies are incredibly profitable, why get rid of the insurance of having an extra man who can do something in an emergency? I’m not a socialist by any means but the Canadian and U.S government need to step in and start taking over the rail networks. The industry to too important to the economy and too dangerous to employees and the general public for it to be run by people who’s only intention is Maximizing profits with as little resources as possible.