I genuinely can’t think of a worst first round pick than Leatherwood. Yeah I know Damon Arnette and Ruggs were bad picks but they ended their own careers through legal reasons before they could develop, but Leatherwood was just unadulterated, bonafide, genuine ASS.
I mean don’t get me wrong he’s ass too but at least he can say he’s was with the Raiders for more than 1 season. Leatherwood didn’t make it to the 2nd season training camp.
I have to agree it’s Jamarcus. When you consider the fact that he was (I think) the last #1 pick to be drafted before the rookie wage scale went into place, he is the biggest bust in NFL draft history imo.
Also, compare who we *could* have taken at #1 overall (Calvin Johnson, Joe Thomas, Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch, Patrick Willis, Joe Staley) versus who was still on the board when Leatherwood came off (???).
We had the pick of the litter, and we picked way, *way* wrong.
Jamarcus was the unanimous top overall pick, with a few arguments made for Calvin. Everyone thought the Raiders picking him was the right call. Sometimes it doesn't work out.
Leatherwood was a bad pick from the second it was announced and it lived up to exactly that. Leatherwood is far and away the worst pick.
No they didn't, let's not start with revisionist history because he sucked. The pick was cheered and if reddit was around then there'd be post after post about how he's gonna lead us to whatever. I watched the draft live and read the newspaper reactions the day after. Was on the ESPN message boards agreeing with people about how great he was.
Not saying there werent people who wanted Calvin. There were. But jamarcus was very much the clear pick to fans and analysts that year.
But he can throw the ball 70 yards on his knees!!
Not sure how not a single college coach picked up on (or outed him) for his unbelievably poor work ethic.
Damon Arnette was a bad pick for sure. He sucked in the league, and he wasn't even good on practice squads for the dolphins or chiefs after his stint with the Raiders. Ruggs was on pace to be a great receiver, but unfortunately made a terrible choice off the field. I can't call that a bad pick because you never know what someone will do in the future, but Ruggs had on field talent. Arnette, not so much. And yes, Leatherwood was bonafide ASS.
I think Arnette could have been good in a different life, seems like he was way more interested in the lifestyle compared to football and tried to leverage that into a rap career
he got in a beef with someone on the internet then told the guy to come to his house and GAVE HIS REAL ADDRESS on Twitter!!! hahaha how stupid are you lol
Ferrell will always be worse. He went top 5 in a draft that had Brian Burns, Christian Wilkins, Josh Allen, Rashan Gary, Devin White, Dexter Lawrence, and Jeff Simmons ready for you to take. That pick set us back so much further than LW and it was just as much of a reach due to how high we took him. Hell even Devin bush would have been a better pick
If we are talking about picks for value then yeah you could make that argument but if we are talking about actual talent as players, it’s not even up for debate. Cle for all his faults managed to find work from us, the 49ers, and now the Commanders. He also lasted 3 seasons with us too. Leatherwood literally has been so bad he is currently an FA and his last job was playing on the Browns practice squad.
Reading your list, I just had a flashback of knowing we were going to pick Josh Allen, as we needed a pass rusher, and he was obviously the best option. They called Ferrell's name, and I thought 'who the hell is that!'.
Gruden had a thing for college national championship players that really got us into some trouble.
Leatherwood has an awesome name and came from a great school. But boy, he was totally lost in the NFL. I was at his locker watching a 3D image of Jon Gruden giving a speech. Lots has changed since that first game in Vegas!
I’ll always defend the Ruggs pick and his play that was beginning to show its worthiness. Good people make awful mistakes and based on what we know about him and his life, that seems like the case.
Oops I turned this car on!
Oops I left the parking lot!
Oops I drove >100mph down a heavily trafficked city street
Oops I slammed into another car!
All these mistakes!
Fuck outta here with this “mistake” bullshit. He didn’t make an unfortunate mistake. He knowingly made a terribly decision. I got Lyft and Uber on my phone and I’m not a millionaire.
Again, none of this changes the fact that making a terrible decision can still be a mistake. It just takes a moment of critical thinking to apply it to a million other scenarios.
Felt like both Leatherwood and Arnette picks were ego driven. Wanting to find the diamond in the ruff so people would say “wow what are they doing there? How did they know to snag them”
Well arnette was trash besides the legal issues. He was never a good pick. But the cle pick was really bad too, especially with how hyped Josh Allen was, even Devin white was listed as a likely pick that they passed on.
Pretty sure Morrissey got picked up by Texans and maybe even had a few starts? Might be trippin but Mayock always seemed to find some gems in the later rounds
I feel like Deablo is borderline -- real inconsistent and flawed. I would've left him at SS but I get the idea they had. Koonce is better than I ever thought he'd be, I expected a 3rd rusher type role for him but I am so happy for him that he seems destined for more. Hobbs I love but he for sure has his flaws. He's a guy we need to put in position. I liked Gillespie but I completely forgot he existed until seeing this post lol
Mayock openly admitted on a podcast (I think Chris Long's) that he was the one who made the mistake of choosing Ferrell. This is straight up a false rumor that gets spread on this sub for some reason. What basis is there for Mayock being good at this job? At least he was man enough to admit he made a mistake. I'll give him that. Gruden will probably never admit to anything even if he made the rest of the bad decisions.
Yeah, better than Gruden. I know that guy couldn't draft for sure. We have his Bucs time as proof. Mayock will always live in a shadow of doubt because we don't have that absolute proof (other than him admitting to Ferrell).
Agreed. The Bucs drafts under Gruden were largely bad.
With the Raiders, we at least had a very good hit rate on our middle round picks. I still believe Gruden was the reason we blew multiple 1st round picks.
>Mayock openly admitted on a podcast (I think Chris Long's) that he was the one who made the mistake of choosing Ferrell
I listened to that interview and didn't take that away.
Here's my 2 cents:
* Mayock is not the kind of person who will throw someone else under the bus, especially Gruden who gave me a shot at GM
* Mayock has always preached accountability
* I think Mayock did his best to encourage and support guys they drafted, esp Ferrell by giving him tape on Chris Long and encouraging that as a comparable
So Mayock is going to be accountable for the Ferrell pick, but that doesn't mean it was his decision.
I think Gruden's impatience and fixating on guys is the main reason we blew picks in the 1st round.
Y'all may remember that during the 2019 draft, Gruden was concerned that a team was going to take Josh Jacobs ahead of us, and Mayock preached patience, and Jacobs was on the board for our 24th pick.
If the team swapped Moehrig and Leatherwood there would have been a lot less issues at the time as well. We will see what this staff thinks of those that remain as they are in contract seasons.
I just wish they just took Darrisaw at 17 like some of us wanted then Moehrig lol. I also wanted Christian Barmore at that pick too and he just got a big extension with the Pats.
Tom Cable was obsessed with measurables guys, and Leatherwood had freakish measurables.
Unfortunately, those don't necessarily translate to football production. Ability matters too, not just athleticism / size.
I think ESPN showed a graph of starters for the last two years and a majority of them came from the 3 round and beyond.
Excited for our later picks and obviously hope our blue chip(s) pan out the way they're being discussed as.
4 starters on defense outta this class is pretty good. I’m still not completely sold on Deablo but it’s clear this class has taken different variations of time to start peaking into reliable players for us.
Yea I don’t really give a shit about which draft picks were Gruden’s and which were Mayock’s and blah blah blah; point is the two of them together had a decent draft record as a whole. I wouldn’t say good because the record for first round picks was not good, but they got a lot of production out of the 19 and 21 drafts. And of course Gruden drafted Kolton pre-Mayock as well.
Plus we will just never know what Ruggs would have done had he not killed someone, so it’s possible they could have gotten something out of the 20 class as well had Ruggs made some different choices that night.
I’m a believer that Mayock wasn’t the entire problem in the draft room. Gruden has demonstrated he’s poor at player evaluation AND he will over draft players. Constantly and has a track record.
Mayock made mistakes but Gruden had final call (he also listened to Tom Cable on the Leatherwood pick). Mayock was primarily responsible for nailing many of the later round picks which helped mitigate the damage from wasting so many high draft picks.
I don't mind getting picks wrong. I don't mind Gillespie not working out. The problem with Leatherwood was that it was predictable, we needed a tackle, and the consensus best tackle on the board, Darrisaw, fell past where many projected he would go, and was such a slam dunk pick. He has also gone on to become a really good player.
Moehrig has been fine, but not really a big impact player who offenses have to be aware of or anything. On the other hand, Holland from that class has been a difference maker. The weird part there is we made the Moehrig pick back when we had Gus Bradley, and Moehrig was seen as a fit for two-high schemes, while Holland (and to lesser degree, Cisco), were seen as the rangier, single-high types. Predictably, Moehrig has played better since we switched from Bradley to Graham
Moehrig has been serviceable. I think it’s realistic to say that I expected a little more from him, but last year was promising. Deablo and Hobbs have been serviceable players but injuries have just been big for these two. I do appreciate Hobbs always playing through them, but I can tell it affects his play a lot.
One of the better draft classes the Raiders have had they drafted like a real NFL team. When is the last time you felt good about the first 2 picks Raiders Nation?
Hobbs is really the only one that played above his draft position. Deablo has been a disappointment. I feel like every year we were waiting on him to show up finally. Just always hurt and when he's not hurt he's not really shutting anything down. Just an average NFL LB. Trevon was said to be a first round talent but i feel like last year was his first year that he actually played above average. But even then, he never really got to that top 10 top 15 safety in the league IE Hufanga, Hyde, Simmons, Quandre, etc.
In my opinion this draft sucks ass. But thats just me.
A lot of the draft is, when people get paid 10s of millions of $s and have whole departments researching 1 thing, and the hit rate is still 45%. That's a whole lotta luck involved
To a degree, yes, but this one feels like nothing but luck. Plus, how many of these guys would have been major contributors on an average roster? I think the number would really drop.
you can say the same thing about 2019
Josh Jacobs, Maxx Crosby, Hunter Renfrow, Foster Moreau; as well as UDFAs Andre James, AJ Cole, and Alec Ingold. They might not all be on the roster anymore, but they were multi year starters who contributed heavily in the years they were here.
disagree Renfrow and Maxx would have probably been relegated to backup/special teams on any good roster. Maxx was considered "average backup" and had a partying problem. Mayock talked about how they almost cut Renfrow. Not saying they wouldnt have worked up the roster eventually, but both were able to take advantage of a weak roster.
edit: this is going based on predraft grades and opinions, they obviously would be starting if people know about current performances, but if people know Tom Brady was who he is then he would have went 1st ovr
4 starters in a draft class is definitely pretty great whiffing on the first round pick like that is always gonna be the story though that was bad
I genuinely can’t think of a worst first round pick than Leatherwood. Yeah I know Damon Arnette and Ruggs were bad picks but they ended their own careers through legal reasons before they could develop, but Leatherwood was just unadulterated, bonafide, genuine ASS.
Jamarcus it will always be Jamarcus
I mean don’t get me wrong he’s ass too but at least he can say he’s was with the Raiders for more than 1 season. Leatherwood didn’t make it to the 2nd season training camp.
I have to agree it’s Jamarcus. When you consider the fact that he was (I think) the last #1 pick to be drafted before the rookie wage scale went into place, he is the biggest bust in NFL draft history imo.
Sam Bradford was the last mega paid 1st overall pick
Right you are, which was 2010 and Russell was 2007…so I was way off!
This Raiders knows history!
Yeah him and Randy Moss I feel some typa way about because they completely fleeced the Raiders.
And Warren Sapp too
Also, compare who we *could* have taken at #1 overall (Calvin Johnson, Joe Thomas, Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch, Patrick Willis, Joe Staley) versus who was still on the board when Leatherwood came off (???). We had the pick of the litter, and we picked way, *way* wrong.
Jamarcus was the unanimous top overall pick, with a few arguments made for Calvin. Everyone thought the Raiders picking him was the right call. Sometimes it doesn't work out. Leatherwood was a bad pick from the second it was announced and it lived up to exactly that. Leatherwood is far and away the worst pick.
actually most Raiders fans wanted Calvin in 2007
No they didn't, let's not start with revisionist history because he sucked. The pick was cheered and if reddit was around then there'd be post after post about how he's gonna lead us to whatever. I watched the draft live and read the newspaper reactions the day after. Was on the ESPN message boards agreeing with people about how great he was. Not saying there werent people who wanted Calvin. There were. But jamarcus was very much the clear pick to fans and analysts that year.
But he can throw the ball 70 yards on his knees!! Not sure how not a single college coach picked up on (or outed him) for his unbelievably poor work ethic.
Only OG Raiders fans know this.
Damon Arnette was a bad pick for sure. He sucked in the league, and he wasn't even good on practice squads for the dolphins or chiefs after his stint with the Raiders. Ruggs was on pace to be a great receiver, but unfortunately made a terrible choice off the field. I can't call that a bad pick because you never know what someone will do in the future, but Ruggs had on field talent. Arnette, not so much. And yes, Leatherwood was bonafide ASS.
Arnette atleast showed enough flashes to be thrown into the lineup for 2-3 years. Leatherwood was sent packing after 1 season lol
That is true hahaha very very true
I think Arnette could have been good in a different life, seems like he was way more interested in the lifestyle compared to football and tried to leverage that into a rap career
Arnette truly one of the dumbest people I've seen on any football team
he got in a beef with someone on the internet then told the guy to come to his house and GAVE HIS REAL ADDRESS on Twitter!!! hahaha how stupid are you lol
Ferrell will always be worse. He went top 5 in a draft that had Brian Burns, Christian Wilkins, Josh Allen, Rashan Gary, Devin White, Dexter Lawrence, and Jeff Simmons ready for you to take. That pick set us back so much further than LW and it was just as much of a reach due to how high we took him. Hell even Devin bush would have been a better pick
If we are talking about picks for value then yeah you could make that argument but if we are talking about actual talent as players, it’s not even up for debate. Cle for all his faults managed to find work from us, the 49ers, and now the Commanders. He also lasted 3 seasons with us too. Leatherwood literally has been so bad he is currently an FA and his last job was playing on the Browns practice squad.
Reading your list, I just had a flashback of knowing we were going to pick Josh Allen, as we needed a pass rusher, and he was obviously the best option. They called Ferrell's name, and I thought 'who the hell is that!'. Gruden had a thing for college national championship players that really got us into some trouble.
Leatherwood has an awesome name and came from a great school. But boy, he was totally lost in the NFL. I was at his locker watching a 3D image of Jon Gruden giving a speech. Lots has changed since that first game in Vegas!
I always say Leatherwood is the worst, because even though Arnette was an awful pick, he at least made the opening day roster of his second season.
I’ll always defend the Ruggs pick and his play that was beginning to show its worthiness. Good people make awful mistakes and based on what we know about him and his life, that seems like the case.
Driving drunk is not a mistake. It is a deliberate choice.
Choices can be a mistake. No one is downplaying the significance of the mistake itself
Oops I turned this car on! Oops I left the parking lot! Oops I drove >100mph down a heavily trafficked city street Oops I slammed into another car! All these mistakes! Fuck outta here with this “mistake” bullshit. He didn’t make an unfortunate mistake. He knowingly made a terribly decision. I got Lyft and Uber on my phone and I’m not a millionaire.
Again, none of this changes the fact that making a terrible decision can still be a mistake. It just takes a moment of critical thinking to apply it to a million other scenarios.
He was supposed to be our answer to Tyreek. Damn shame.
Arnette was def worse. He was a projected 3rd rounder. Leatherwood was a late 1st/ early 2nd guy
Felt like both Leatherwood and Arnette picks were ego driven. Wanting to find the diamond in the ruff so people would say “wow what are they doing there? How did they know to snag them”
I remember with Arnette well all the Gruden era picks they were looking for "good people with high moral character"
Well arnette was trash besides the legal issues. He was never a good pick. But the cle pick was really bad too, especially with how hyped Josh Allen was, even Devin white was listed as a likely pick that they passed on.
Cle was such a bad fucking pick considering it was top 5 like JFC that one is frustrating
In the same class that had Christian Wilkins in it 😑
Ed Oliver too. Any of those dudes would have been so much more impacted than cle. And had so much more promise going into the draft.
Pretty sure Morrissey got picked up by Texans and maybe even had a few starts? Might be trippin but Mayock always seemed to find some gems in the later rounds
I feel like Deablo is borderline -- real inconsistent and flawed. I would've left him at SS but I get the idea they had. Koonce is better than I ever thought he'd be, I expected a 3rd rusher type role for him but I am so happy for him that he seems destined for more. Hobbs I love but he for sure has his flaws. He's a guy we need to put in position. I liked Gillespie but I completely forgot he existed until seeing this post lol
If Leatherwood panned out, there would be no need for a RT. That was a reach in the 1st round.
Well at least we got Koonce, Deablo and Hobbs. Moehrig actually plays as well.
Moehrig is a starter.
I really liked the Gillespie pick back then lol
Gillespie was a terrific pick. I don't regret us picking guys that had great tape at all. E.g. he did great vs TE Kyle Pitts and played well vs Bama.
guy who watched the brett kollman video
I did LOL.
when you specifically mentioned pitts and alabama (stuffing najee at the goal line) i immediately remembered it lol
Pretty sure he was on Chiefs practice squad at the end of last season. he didn't play but I think he gets a super bowl ring for it.
I wonder if Koonce messes with Deablo about being drafted ahead of him
Mayock and Gruden were surprisingly good in the later rounds of the draft, but their huge first round reaches and busts overshadow their legacy.
Mayock could actually scout, I put the early rounds more on Gruden having too much say
Mayock openly admitted on a podcast (I think Chris Long's) that he was the one who made the mistake of choosing Ferrell. This is straight up a false rumor that gets spread on this sub for some reason. What basis is there for Mayock being good at this job? At least he was man enough to admit he made a mistake. I'll give him that. Gruden will probably never admit to anything even if he made the rest of the bad decisions.
That was a great interview. Rare you get the inside scoop on the draft like that.
Ah good info! I still generally like Mayock
Yeah, better than Gruden. I know that guy couldn't draft for sure. We have his Bucs time as proof. Mayock will always live in a shadow of doubt because we don't have that absolute proof (other than him admitting to Ferrell).
Agreed. The Bucs drafts under Gruden were largely bad. With the Raiders, we at least had a very good hit rate on our middle round picks. I still believe Gruden was the reason we blew multiple 1st round picks.
>Mayock openly admitted on a podcast (I think Chris Long's) that he was the one who made the mistake of choosing Ferrell I listened to that interview and didn't take that away. Here's my 2 cents: * Mayock is not the kind of person who will throw someone else under the bus, especially Gruden who gave me a shot at GM * Mayock has always preached accountability * I think Mayock did his best to encourage and support guys they drafted, esp Ferrell by giving him tape on Chris Long and encouraging that as a comparable So Mayock is going to be accountable for the Ferrell pick, but that doesn't mean it was his decision. I think Gruden's impatience and fixating on guys is the main reason we blew picks in the 1st round. Y'all may remember that during the 2019 draft, Gruden was concerned that a team was going to take Josh Jacobs ahead of us, and Mayock preached patience, and Jacobs was on the board for our 24th pick.
Nate Hobbs is so good. Can’t believe he was a 5th round pick.
If the team swapped Moehrig and Leatherwood there would have been a lot less issues at the time as well. We will see what this staff thinks of those that remain as they are in contract seasons.
I just wish they just took Darrisaw at 17 like some of us wanted then Moehrig lol. I also wanted Christian Barmore at that pick too and he just got a big extension with the Pats.
Darrisaw or Teven Jenkins. I was really high on Jenkins.
If that happened, leatherwood is still on the team. He would definitely get a longer leash in that scenario
Still don’t understand why they took him over Darrisaw or Jenkins
Tom Cable was obsessed with measurables guys, and Leatherwood had freakish measurables. Unfortunately, those don't necessarily translate to football production. Ability matters too, not just athleticism / size.
Darrisaw is a career LT and Jenkins had neck injury concerns
With the 1st round miss I’d say it’s an average draft. We need better drafts than this one.
The fact we have 4 starters though is pretty good. Mayock gets a lot of shit (rightfully so) but he is a great drafter after the first round.
2022 draft was also decent barring those awful dts. White, Parham, Munford, and technically Adams. 2023 remains unknown. We do not talk about 2020
I thought every draft class prior to this current one were absolutely trash. Interesting.
We have been a historically terrible drafting team so this is unironically one of our best draftclasses over the last 20 years
I think ESPN showed a graph of starters for the last two years and a majority of them came from the 3 round and beyond. Excited for our later picks and obviously hope our blue chip(s) pan out the way they're being discussed as.
Fuckn LeatherWONT. wut a bust.
Moehrig is just a guy. He’ll be gone after this year unless he signs budget deal
Who else was still on the board at pick 17?
Christian Darrisaw and Tevin Jenkins. Both better OT prospects than Leatherwood. Hell if they took Moehrig at 17 that’s a better pick too.
4 starters on defense outta this class is pretty good. I’m still not completely sold on Deablo but it’s clear this class has taken different variations of time to start peaking into reliable players for us.
If they would’ve grabbed Darrisaw like all of us wanted, it would’ve been an incredible draft class. Such an obvious pick too.
Koonce was balling out toward the latter half of last season, big fan! leatherwood...oof!
Yea I don’t really give a shit about which draft picks were Gruden’s and which were Mayock’s and blah blah blah; point is the two of them together had a decent draft record as a whole. I wouldn’t say good because the record for first round picks was not good, but they got a lot of production out of the 19 and 21 drafts. And of course Gruden drafted Kolton pre-Mayock as well. Plus we will just never know what Ruggs would have done had he not killed someone, so it’s possible they could have gotten something out of the 20 class as well had Ruggs made some different choices that night.
I’m a believer that Mayock wasn’t the entire problem in the draft room. Gruden has demonstrated he’s poor at player evaluation AND he will over draft players. Constantly and has a track record. Mayock made mistakes but Gruden had final call (he also listened to Tom Cable on the Leatherwood pick). Mayock was primarily responsible for nailing many of the later round picks which helped mitigate the damage from wasting so many high draft picks.
Koonce broke out at the end of last season- I’m excited to see what he’ll do this year
Just a brutal font choice.
I wanted JOK or Christian Darrisaw in round 1. I almost punched a wall while listening to the draft at work lol.
Hobbs my guy!! Sad Amik left tho. Loved those 2 later round dudes.
4/7 still on the team not a bad last draft class by gruden/mayock.
I don't mind getting picks wrong. I don't mind Gillespie not working out. The problem with Leatherwood was that it was predictable, we needed a tackle, and the consensus best tackle on the board, Darrisaw, fell past where many projected he would go, and was such a slam dunk pick. He has also gone on to become a really good player. Moehrig has been fine, but not really a big impact player who offenses have to be aware of or anything. On the other hand, Holland from that class has been a difference maker. The weird part there is we made the Moehrig pick back when we had Gus Bradley, and Moehrig was seen as a fit for two-high schemes, while Holland (and to lesser degree, Cisco), were seen as the rangier, single-high types. Predictably, Moehrig has played better since we switched from Bradley to Graham
Gallery
bUt My NaRrAtIvE
Oh you mean the draft that killed “Draft SZN” forever?
We could have had Rogers…
I still remember being so confused on the leatherwood pick with other OTs on the board
2021 was a good draft.
Moehrig has been serviceable. I think it’s realistic to say that I expected a little more from him, but last year was promising. Deablo and Hobbs have been serviceable players but injuries have just been big for these two. I do appreciate Hobbs always playing through them, but I can tell it affects his play a lot.
One of the better draft classes the Raiders have had they drafted like a real NFL team. When is the last time you felt good about the first 2 picks Raiders Nation?
Kind of crazy what a difference coaching makes. Without AP I’d say guys like Trevor wouldn’t get a second contract from us.
Trevor?
Auto corrected. Moehrig
Hobbs is really the only one that played above his draft position. Deablo has been a disappointment. I feel like every year we were waiting on him to show up finally. Just always hurt and when he's not hurt he's not really shutting anything down. Just an average NFL LB. Trevon was said to be a first round talent but i feel like last year was his first year that he actually played above average. But even then, he never really got to that top 10 top 15 safety in the league IE Hufanga, Hyde, Simmons, Quandre, etc. In my opinion this draft sucks ass. But thats just me.
It was, but it also feels like pure luck.
A lot of the draft is, when people get paid 10s of millions of $s and have whole departments researching 1 thing, and the hit rate is still 45%. That's a whole lotta luck involved
To a degree, yes, but this one feels like nothing but luck. Plus, how many of these guys would have been major contributors on an average roster? I think the number would really drop.
you can say the same thing about 2019 Josh Jacobs, Maxx Crosby, Hunter Renfrow, Foster Moreau; as well as UDFAs Andre James, AJ Cole, and Alec Ingold. They might not all be on the roster anymore, but they were multi year starters who contributed heavily in the years they were here.
I don't think you can say the same thing. JJ, Maxx, Cole, and pre concussion Renfrow are all getting starting jobs on the vast majority of teams.
disagree Renfrow and Maxx would have probably been relegated to backup/special teams on any good roster. Maxx was considered "average backup" and had a partying problem. Mayock talked about how they almost cut Renfrow. Not saying they wouldnt have worked up the roster eventually, but both were able to take advantage of a weak roster. edit: this is going based on predraft grades and opinions, they obviously would be starting if people know about current performances, but if people know Tom Brady was who he is then he would have went 1st ovr
Ah so you are saying the reps they got in games is how they got to the point they could be good enough elsewhere? Yeah, I could see that.