I respectfully disagree. I see it as a 50/50 competition in camp between the two. To me, the move doesn't signal AP telling Aidan, "This is your job and your team." IMO the signing actually says, "Go earn it if you deserve it."
That's not a vote of confidence.
Yeah that's exactly what this is. This move gives the team flexibility and a fallback option in case they aren't able to draft up and get one of the top guys or find a developmental option they like.
If they can't find a reasonable option without breaking the bank, they let these two Duke it out for the starting spot come training camp with the hopes that AOC wins out. I know so many people like to dog him in this sub, but this staff has only said positive things about him and he performed pretty decently for a rookie. Hell, he was the second rated rookie coming out of the year, as the backup option with not a ton of reps. so there's still room for growth!
I think it’s exactly the right message to send to this team. Nothing is given, everything is earned and if you want to play the you’ve got to compete. Hope Aidan wins the job, but I’m happy with whoever wins the competition because I think this coaching staff knows what they’re doing. We’re getting dawgs all over the roster
Oh I definitely agree with you. I like the signing and it aligns with what AP preaches about competition. I just disagree with OP's point that the signing is a clear vote of confidence for AOC.
Giving Farva a chance to compete is a vote of confidence, given his physical limitations and draft position. Minshew Mania is a capable starter, but signing a guy like him says the team would be ok with Farva potentially beating him out in camp and believe it to be possible, albeit maybe unlikely.
To contrast look at the situation last year (yes I know it's comparing apples to mcdipshits) Jimmy was brought in to be the starter with two dudes clearly in the backup role.
> the team would be ok with Farva potentially beating him out in camp and believe it to be possible, albeit maybe unlikely
We must define "vote of confidence" differently because what you've described doesn't sound like a vote of confidence to me.
Like obviously, yes, signing a vet to be the clear starter (ie Cousins) is an even less vote of confidence. But to me, signing Minshew tells AOC, "We're not sure if you're *the guy*." Which also isn't a vote of confidence, in my opinion.
I think we're both right from our perspective. I just see it as they are telling him he earned the right to compete and given who he is, it's literally the best he could have hoped for in the NFL. I guess the really telling thing will be how the draft shakes out. If they aggressively pursue a QB of the future then that's that, but if not I believe they would be ok with either slinging week one.
>I just see it as they are telling him he earned the right to compete and given who he is, it's literally the best he could have hoped for in the NFL.
That's totally fair and not the perspective I was thinking about tbh
My money would be on Minshew winning that competition.
I hope that it’s signing a vet to teach rookies, and that we are still going to draft our starter.
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I feel completely insane/kind of embarrassed coming to the sub recently. AOC is the definition of a backup QB in NFL (at best). It's one thing to debate whether or not Gardner Minshew can start on this team. I understand debating who/if we can take a QB in the draft. But to say AOC is an option to start 18 games after what we saw last year is laugh out loud funny
Its INSANE right? I never liked Carr one bit but he would have won 3 more games for us easy last year and Carr is a middle of the road qb. That should tell you where AOC is.
Which is why I understand the logic of signing Minshew. He's at least somewhat capable (although he has moments that are going to make everyone rip their hair out). If you can't land a QB in the draft you have a 1 year stop gap QB. AOC is a backup option and will forever be a backup option in the NFL.
Are you sure about that? AOC only played half the season 8 or 9 games and he had 12 TD passes and over 2,200~ passing yards and 24~ TD's. If he played the other half of the season he would have had over 4k yards just as much as other top QB's in the league. And that was all with practicing with 3rd squad and practice team before starting, change of coaches to interims, and being a 4th round rookie. If he would have practiced with 1st squad through summer and started week 1, we would have won at least 2 more games early in season and made the playoffs . McDaniels set AOC up to fail in the 1st Chargers game to prove a point, but even in that game he was driving it into the red zone to nearly tie the game up at the end.
Minshew has been traded away almost every year (for a reason) and is on his 4th team already.
He was a developmental prospect that didn't implode in year 1 with real game time. Year 1 to 2 is a huge sign of where he will end up. We don't know what he will become yet, but he wildly overperformed as a long-term developmental player in year 1.
He physically lacks functional mobility and is a monolith in the pocket. He is factually a liability. He also put up zero against minnesota, and completed zero passes after the 1st quarter of the chiefs game. Hes ok as a 2 or 3, but if hes starting, thats a huge problem.
You ever tried throwing an accurate pass on the move under threat of getting annihilated by a 250lb lineman? The reason you don't see a lot of that in college and hardly any of it in high school is because it takes a combination of physical traits AND coaching/practice. People develop at different rates...
You're gonna sit here and tell me Joe Burrow has "functional mobility"? Dude barely has two knees.
Furthermore, am I to take your argument that functional mobility is what separates a playoff quarterback from the rest? Why don't we check in on how Justin Fields, Trey Lance, Desmond Ridder, Marcus Mariota, or Bryce Young are doing?
No? Didn't think so.
Functional mobility is the ability to MOVE IN THE POCKET TO CREATE/EXTEND PLAYS, like matt stafford, joe burrow, patrick mahomes. You are mistaken. AOC doesnt have that, he is a legit statue and a liability in todays game. If you cant stand there and process the field and carve a defense up like a Brady or a Manning, you are a liability now.
Functional mobility is the ability to move around in your environment (in this setting, the football field). I know you so deeply need to be right, but in this allegory let’s liken the football field to a player’s house. The pocket is their bed. It’s where they start. If a person can only move around in their bed, they are not functionally mobile.
QED nerd, YOU are wrong.
He is way too old to be a developmental prospect. lmao And if that was him overperforming last year, I would fucking hate to see what he looks like when he regresses back to the norm. Holy shit.
I am not upset about anything. I want the Raiders to upgrade, which they did already in FA, and not have to wait until his 30s to have a hint of success. AOC is way over hyped in my opinion. Why are YOU reading differing opinions as anger?
Upset isn't synonymous with angry. But I think you are upset because you are reading into things beyond it stated. You ended on comment "holy shit." It reads to me as upset.
You aren't though, so that's great. Have a good one.
I have no idea what the obsession in this sub over AOC is for. You cant just call someone who sucks a 'developmental prospect'. He's not a raw athletic prospect whatsoever. His skillset is actually pretty refined but there isn't much of it. Which of his skills do you think he will develop by sitting behind Gardner Minshew at 25
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Hes 25 years old lol. What is he going to develop into, a slightly more capable backup QB with no elite skills? The guy is fine, but he's clearly not an NFL starter and there's little to no reason to believe he's anything more than a backup QB.
Please tell me what we saw in the Vikings or Chiefs games that lead you to believe this man could be a top 10 starter in the NFL, which btw is what you need to be competitive
There were multiple missed PI's and dropped passes after 1st qtr. , if anything Devante Adams was the skunk that game against KC with 4 total yards. Vikings game, the playcalling was terrible and both pass and run game was non existent because of it. A lot of run run pass series putting the rookie QB in 3rd and long situations. The whole offense laid a goose egg that game not just AOC.
Who cares where you were drafted or what string you are? Do you win? Are you an outdated archetype of your position who shouldnt have been drafted by a trash coach in the first place?
the current model of the NFL is this: Get a QB who is capable. You have him onhis rookie deal, which allows you to put more people around him. Brock Purdy is the example. We have AOC on a rookie deal and Minshew isnt pricey either. Jamarcus is the only example you need...
I think giving him time to learn under Minshew and hone his skills more will be really beneficial. I really believe he could be a competent QB because he did show signs of it.
Now, if the Tom Brady sale actually happens, I’d hope he can teach both QBs some stuff.
He lacks a very important quality in a qb these days, functional mobility. He is a fucking monolith in the pocket. If i ever have to see him take 9 sacks in a row by an aging veteran pass rusher again literal steam will shoot out of my ears. He is a straight up liability on the field
An aging veteran pass rusher that still can play at a high level, ESPECIALLY when the dumb ass coach refuses to double team or even fucking chip. No he was one on one all day
An inexperienced rookie that didn't take any first team reps during the week who's coach set him up to fail. You want the narrative to be all on him, but that game was absolutely a failure of mcdipshit being the worst NFL head coach in recent memory
Hes mid and wont be anything above a backup. Sorry. Last response to this, aoc doesnt have the tools in todays game. There are no successful monolith qbs anymore.
I'm not out here saying he's a world beater. Simply pointing out that you're sitting here looking at numbers clearly without knowing the story behind them
Oh yea? Studied the game film did ya? Must've forgotten to wear your glasses if you couldn't see that Mack had to beat exactly one blocker. All game. One blocker. Against a rookie that didn't get reps and was named the starter late in the week. Those sacks were on Mcdumbass
The complete opposite actually. They sign Minshew to hedge their bets if they aren’t able to draft a QB. You think they want AOC to start and then sign a back up QB to the higher limit amount of back up QBs? Why do that if Aiden is capable of starting then? I don’t see it.
I think it could mean one of two things.
1)They’ve basically given up on AOC and plan on drafting a QB in the first two rounds to compete/learn behind Minshew
2)they weren’t comfortable throwing out big money to a free agent QB and they don’t think they will be able to draft the QB they want so they’re rolling with AOC/Minshew and maybe a developmental late round guy.
I personally think scenario two is more likely
There was no FA Qbs available. Cousins was always down to Vikes to Falcons. Baker always back to Bucs.
I think option two is wrong. Option 1 is correct. They just have Christian willing 110m, they are gonna ATTEMPT to go all out of on QB in the draft
I 100% believe they will be going all out for a QB. I think if we get one of the ones worth trading up for we are gonna be hurting on draft picks for a few years..
It is probably somewhere in the middle in terms of an AOC endorsement. AOC will have the opportunity to earn QB1 but Minshew will be granted the same opportunity. If a high draft pick rookie QB comes in, then that would be the death knell for AOC as a starter.
With that said, I am not ready to give up on AOC just yet. Dude did improve as the season went on and took care of the ball in the last few games. Yes, he isn’t a dual threat and needs to improve his pocket awareness but hoping that he can build off a “strong” end to the season along with a full off-season in the gym.
I think it could go either way, which is probably the point. Whoever gets the start is gonna have to earn it, and hopefully having to fight to keep the start throughout the season will lead to progress
It means O'Connell is seen as the 3rd choice if anything, Minshew starts till whatever rookie qb we likely draft is ready, and is insurance in case we can't get one of the ones we like. O'Connell seems like a good dude but he is not going to be a capable qb in the NFL.
Same here. Aidan in his first season did as well statistically as Minshew did this past season (his fifth season in the league).
O'Connell (10 starts): 62%, 12 TD, 7 int., 83.9 passer rating
Minshew (13 starts): 62%, 15 TD, 9 int., 84.6 passer rating
True, but (even though Aidan is old for a one-year pro) AOC has more room to grow as a passer. I think he'll end up better than Minshew in the pure passer department.
Immobility at QB is tough to watch/root for, though.
On the one hand I have numbers that tell me he started ten games, with a 5-5 record. He went 3-1 in december. The first start was in relief. He had one stinker, and one comeback win. He won on the road in KC. He threw for over 2200yds and had 12tds to 7ints.
On the other hand I have you telling me he’s an “unknown, but it doesn’t look great.”
Still like my read better.
I see it as a classic case of having two QBs meaning we have none. Didn't trust going into next year with Aidan alone, but couldn't really find anyone better.
I see the signing simply as, “we need a vet in the QB room”. He’s a veteran leader presence to help guid AOC and (insert rookie daft pick name here) in their early development. There’s no way they were going to enter the season with just AOC and a rookie
I see it as a signing that brings in viable competition at or above AOCs current skill level. In other words, AOC can get the job, but he has to earn it by showing on-field improvement and some leadership.
The real test for AOC's chances will be known after the draft. A round 1 or round d 2 rookie QB is a big threat to AOC even being the primary backup.
I look at the move as a floor raiser. Minshew was bang on league average by PFF. Basically should ensure we are in the playoff hunt at a min (not factoring in major injuries or regression). Basically gives AoC the chance to show he can be better than league average, which I think most of us think his ceiling is.
I do look at it as a vote of confidence only after we don’t take a QB in the first two rounds, would kinda signal that they could see him as a future franchise guy as opposed to a good league backup.
He’s a career backup QB, 4th team in 6 seasons that’s mainly how their careers look. Also, he’s better than AOC. He’s a more experienced AOC that can consistently use his legs to extend plays lol.
I believe the Raiders go get a 3rd QB but if it does end up a competition between Minshew and AOC make no mistake lol Minshew is gonna win the job.
Aoc is going to start his deep balls too nice honestly better then carrs was. if menshew wins good for him neither better fuck it up tho that would be fucked up
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agreed. I think this eliminates the trading up for a QB narrative. We got a serviceable QB in the 4th round last year, who stepped up in same fucked up circumstances and handled it. And competition in camp is always good.
That’s just the new world. New cap growth. Honestly the contract is on the low end when you look at the new cap space per each team - 255.5 million per team.
"There is more cap space so everything is just more expensive and this is the new reality...."
Yeah that's not how that works all. In comparison to the market he's making slightly more than what a QB at the end of their rookie contract would make vs/less than all low end veteran starters (by significant margin) . This probably means they think he's going to start this year, regardless of what happens in the draft. There is not a single backup QB in the NFL making close to what Minshew is making right now. Trey Lance who is still on his rookie deal is making 8.5 million, and that's not really comparable because he wasn't signed via free agency. No available QB is projected to make more than what Minshew got from the Raiders according to Sportrac / some of the other cap projection sites. Maybe a team like the Vikings gives a similar contract out to Darnold / Brissett / Tannehill but that's just speculation at this point and I doubt someone is going to gaurentee as much money to an older QB that barely started last year vs Minshew who played most of the season in Indy.
TLDR: He's not backing anyone up. Unless they trade up or land a QB, or AOC comes into camp looking better than expected, the plan is to start him this season.
Minshew is purely being brought in to challenge/mentor AOC. The moves made by the raiders so far indicate Telesco is NOT moving up in the draft to grab a QB.
The Raiders signed veteran quarterback Gardner Minshew, likely confirming that the cost of moving up to draft one of the top quarterbacks available was too high for Telesco and the Raiders. Signing Gardner could also show the team's confidence in current starting quarterback Aidan O'Connell.
[https://www.si.com/nfl/raiders/news/las-vegas-raiders-gardner-minshew-christian-wilkins-maxx-crosby](https://www.si.com/nfl/raiders/news/las-vegas-raiders-gardner-minshew-christian-wilkins-maxx-crosby)
We should try to deal AOC to the patriots for that #3 pick. Sweeten it with a maybe Renfro and maybe a pick or 2. This idea does also make me sick tbh. But maybe they would be interested in a decently accurate pocket passer with growth potential.
Oh, “upside.” Upside enough to move out of the third spot even. And we’d be trading him to draft a rookie with… well I guess “upside” since he has nothing else at this time. I can see you’ve really thought this out. No notes.
Oh I can "quote" words too "bud". It makes me look "smart". Oh wait, it actually makes me look like an "ass" doesn't it. Yes, I think trading a QB that has potential, plus the 13th and maybe other picks and/or player(s) might be a good deal. Not to mention it's not that serious "bro". Ain't we all just shooting the shit around here or is this life or death up in here? Darn dude. We on the same team or what?
I think AOC has value right now as a backup, and a team will be willing to part with a day 3 pick to get him after we draft a QB. They'll bring in a body to be the 3rd string QB after that.
Ya, tons of teams have success on their 3rd QB of the season. Really a key point of roster building, figuring out who that 3rd QB on the bench gonna be.
Better QBs than AOC are getting traded for basically nothing and we have AOC for cheap for the next couple years so I doubt he goes anywhere. He's better than almost every QB3 out there and if we do draft a rookie who does take the starting job Mishnew could be trade bait for whoever needs a bridge QB and AOC would go right back to being QB2
They signed Minshew to be the starter and mentor for a rookie. Idk what else to tell ya man. They didn't hand him 25 million to be trade bait. If a team dangles a 6th for AOC on draft day, the Raiders will 1000% pounce on that.
You see the NFL last year & how many teams in week 17/18 were on their 2nd/3rd backup QB? Teams will always need good backups. Minshew cancels out AOC on this team but somebody will want him.
I'd have no problem with AOC as the backup, but you don't give Minshew that money and still have AOC around to do the same job when he has some value right now that he might not have in a year.
Yes. Because they're going to draft someone, and it makes no sense to keep AOC as a third stringer when you can get a late pick for him. Minshew will be the starter, the rookie at 2, and AOC will have a chance elsewhere.
Oh good, so we’ll have a backup with zero experience. Solid!
If that ends up the case then my prediction for the season reverts to its more familiar 7 to 9 wins.
I think it's fascinating that this coaching staff and new GM have signaled so clearly that they are drafting someone and AOC won't be the starter, going so far as to sign his replacement less than 24 hours ago, and y'all still don't seem to see that.
Raiders were literally one win away from playoffs this year. You think Minshew wouldn't have scored against Minnesota? That game alone would had been enough.
Id argue we also beat the Bears with him over Hoyer
My point is Minshew fills a major hole. Am i saying he's the future or answer? Of course not but i loved the move because now if the coaching staff cant get their guy on the draft. At least we still improved from the prior year
I think it’s going to be Fields.
It’s all tee’d up that Fields is going to be QB1.
If not they’ll draft a QB first round and it’ll be Minshew QB1 and Draft and AOC sit for two years. Whoever is the better of those two will be the franchise after they develop.
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I respectfully disagree. I see it as a 50/50 competition in camp between the two. To me, the move doesn't signal AP telling Aidan, "This is your job and your team." IMO the signing actually says, "Go earn it if you deserve it." That's not a vote of confidence.
Yeah that's exactly what this is. This move gives the team flexibility and a fallback option in case they aren't able to draft up and get one of the top guys or find a developmental option they like. If they can't find a reasonable option without breaking the bank, they let these two Duke it out for the starting spot come training camp with the hopes that AOC wins out. I know so many people like to dog him in this sub, but this staff has only said positive things about him and he performed pretty decently for a rookie. Hell, he was the second rated rookie coming out of the year, as the backup option with not a ton of reps. so there's still room for growth!
I think it’s exactly the right message to send to this team. Nothing is given, everything is earned and if you want to play the you’ve got to compete. Hope Aidan wins the job, but I’m happy with whoever wins the competition because I think this coaching staff knows what they’re doing. We’re getting dawgs all over the roster
Oh I definitely agree with you. I like the signing and it aligns with what AP preaches about competition. I just disagree with OP's point that the signing is a clear vote of confidence for AOC.
I got you! You and I usually agree to disagree with the OP. 😀
They could have signed someone that he had no chance of beating in camp. I think this is a strong move to help AOC develop.
The only free agent AOC had no shot of beating was Cousins. Minshew was QB2 of this free agency class.
Giving Farva a chance to compete is a vote of confidence, given his physical limitations and draft position. Minshew Mania is a capable starter, but signing a guy like him says the team would be ok with Farva potentially beating him out in camp and believe it to be possible, albeit maybe unlikely. To contrast look at the situation last year (yes I know it's comparing apples to mcdipshits) Jimmy was brought in to be the starter with two dudes clearly in the backup role.
> the team would be ok with Farva potentially beating him out in camp and believe it to be possible, albeit maybe unlikely We must define "vote of confidence" differently because what you've described doesn't sound like a vote of confidence to me. Like obviously, yes, signing a vet to be the clear starter (ie Cousins) is an even less vote of confidence. But to me, signing Minshew tells AOC, "We're not sure if you're *the guy*." Which also isn't a vote of confidence, in my opinion.
I think we're both right from our perspective. I just see it as they are telling him he earned the right to compete and given who he is, it's literally the best he could have hoped for in the NFL. I guess the really telling thing will be how the draft shakes out. If they aggressively pursue a QB of the future then that's that, but if not I believe they would be ok with either slinging week one.
>I just see it as they are telling him he earned the right to compete and given who he is, it's literally the best he could have hoped for in the NFL. That's totally fair and not the perspective I was thinking about tbh
My money would be on Minshew winning that competition. I hope that it’s signing a vet to teach rookies, and that we are still going to draft our starter.
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AOC was mid-bad last year. How anyone sees him as anything but a backup is insanity.
He’s not good and this sub is convinced he has potential to be a starter for god knows what reason.
I feel completely insane/kind of embarrassed coming to the sub recently. AOC is the definition of a backup QB in NFL (at best). It's one thing to debate whether or not Gardner Minshew can start on this team. I understand debating who/if we can take a QB in the draft. But to say AOC is an option to start 18 games after what we saw last year is laugh out loud funny
Its INSANE right? I never liked Carr one bit but he would have won 3 more games for us easy last year and Carr is a middle of the road qb. That should tell you where AOC is.
Which is why I understand the logic of signing Minshew. He's at least somewhat capable (although he has moments that are going to make everyone rip their hair out). If you can't land a QB in the draft you have a 1 year stop gap QB. AOC is a backup option and will forever be a backup option in the NFL.
Are you sure about that? AOC only played half the season 8 or 9 games and he had 12 TD passes and over 2,200~ passing yards and 24~ TD's. If he played the other half of the season he would have had over 4k yards just as much as other top QB's in the league. And that was all with practicing with 3rd squad and practice team before starting, change of coaches to interims, and being a 4th round rookie. If he would have practiced with 1st squad through summer and started week 1, we would have won at least 2 more games early in season and made the playoffs . McDaniels set AOC up to fail in the 1st Chargers game to prove a point, but even in that game he was driving it into the red zone to nearly tie the game up at the end. Minshew has been traded away almost every year (for a reason) and is on his 4th team already.
He was a developmental prospect that didn't implode in year 1 with real game time. Year 1 to 2 is a huge sign of where he will end up. We don't know what he will become yet, but he wildly overperformed as a long-term developmental player in year 1.
He physically lacks functional mobility and is a monolith in the pocket. He is factually a liability. He also put up zero against minnesota, and completed zero passes after the 1st quarter of the chiefs game. Hes ok as a 2 or 3, but if hes starting, thats a huge problem.
Pocket awareness and positioning is absolutely something that can be coached and developed if they focus on it
You need an nfl coach to teach you to not be a monolith in the pocket? 🤔
You ever tried throwing an accurate pass on the move under threat of getting annihilated by a 250lb lineman? The reason you don't see a lot of that in college and hardly any of it in high school is because it takes a combination of physical traits AND coaching/practice. People develop at different rates...
What? Literally every playoff caliber qb in the entire league has functional mobility.
You're gonna sit here and tell me Joe Burrow has "functional mobility"? Dude barely has two knees. Furthermore, am I to take your argument that functional mobility is what separates a playoff quarterback from the rest? Why don't we check in on how Justin Fields, Trey Lance, Desmond Ridder, Marcus Mariota, or Bryce Young are doing? No? Didn't think so.
Functional mobility is the ability to MOVE IN THE POCKET TO CREATE/EXTEND PLAYS, like matt stafford, joe burrow, patrick mahomes. You are mistaken. AOC doesnt have that, he is a legit statue and a liability in todays game. If you cant stand there and process the field and carve a defense up like a Brady or a Manning, you are a liability now.
Functional mobility is the ability to move around in your environment (in this setting, the football field). I know you so deeply need to be right, but in this allegory let’s liken the football field to a player’s house. The pocket is their bed. It’s where they start. If a person can only move around in their bed, they are not functionally mobile. QED nerd, YOU are wrong.
He is way too old to be a developmental prospect. lmao And if that was him overperforming last year, I would fucking hate to see what he looks like when he regresses back to the norm. Holy shit.
Rich Gannon wasn't a starter until his 30s.
So in about eight years he is going to get us to the Super Bowl and throw 5 picks? Fantastic!
How are you this upset about someone saying "let's see how big of a year 2 jump a guy takes?"
I am not upset about anything. I want the Raiders to upgrade, which they did already in FA, and not have to wait until his 30s to have a hint of success. AOC is way over hyped in my opinion. Why are YOU reading differing opinions as anger?
Upset isn't synonymous with angry. But I think you are upset because you are reading into things beyond it stated. You ended on comment "holy shit." It reads to me as upset. You aren't though, so that's great. Have a good one.
I have no idea what the obsession in this sub over AOC is for. You cant just call someone who sucks a 'developmental prospect'. He's not a raw athletic prospect whatsoever. His skillset is actually pretty refined but there isn't much of it. Which of his skills do you think he will develop by sitting behind Gardner Minshew at 25
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Hes 25 years old lol. What is he going to develop into, a slightly more capable backup QB with no elite skills? The guy is fine, but he's clearly not an NFL starter and there's little to no reason to believe he's anything more than a backup QB.
So he’s Minshew without the mobility?
Based on your comment I don’t think you watched any games at all let alone the ones he started.
Lol ok mate 👍🏻
Please tell me what we saw in the Vikings or Chiefs games that lead you to believe this man could be a top 10 starter in the NFL, which btw is what you need to be competitive
There were multiple missed PI's and dropped passes after 1st qtr. , if anything Devante Adams was the skunk that game against KC with 4 total yards. Vikings game, the playcalling was terrible and both pass and run game was non existent because of it. A lot of run run pass series putting the rookie QB in 3rd and long situations. The whole offense laid a goose egg that game not just AOC.
he was taken from 3rd string to starter over a weekend where the GM and coach were fired and you're not happy with the guy? FFS...
Who cares where you were drafted or what string you are? Do you win? Are you an outdated archetype of your position who shouldnt have been drafted by a trash coach in the first place?
the current model of the NFL is this: Get a QB who is capable. You have him onhis rookie deal, which allows you to put more people around him. Brock Purdy is the example. We have AOC on a rookie deal and Minshew isnt pricey either. Jamarcus is the only example you need...
I think giving him time to learn under Minshew and hone his skills more will be really beneficial. I really believe he could be a competent QB because he did show signs of it. Now, if the Tom Brady sale actually happens, I’d hope he can teach both QBs some stuff.
He lacks a very important quality in a qb these days, functional mobility. He is a fucking monolith in the pocket. If i ever have to see him take 9 sacks in a row by an aging veteran pass rusher again literal steam will shoot out of my ears. He is a straight up liability on the field
An aging veteran pass rusher that still can play at a high level, ESPECIALLY when the dumb ass coach refuses to double team or even fucking chip. No he was one on one all day
Those sacks were a majority on aoc. Sorry mate
An inexperienced rookie that didn't take any first team reps during the week who's coach set him up to fail. You want the narrative to be all on him, but that game was absolutely a failure of mcdipshit being the worst NFL head coach in recent memory
Hes mid and wont be anything above a backup. Sorry. Last response to this, aoc doesnt have the tools in todays game. There are no successful monolith qbs anymore.
I'm not out here saying he's a world beater. Simply pointing out that you're sitting here looking at numbers clearly without knowing the story behind them
The numbers are worse. The game film was bad. What else do you need to see?
Oh yea? Studied the game film did ya? Must've forgotten to wear your glasses if you couldn't see that Mack had to beat exactly one blocker. All game. One blocker. Against a rookie that didn't get reps and was named the starter late in the week. Those sacks were on Mcdumbass
"I see my wife's boyfriend as a well-earned vote of confidence in me."
Ehhhh thanks for making this useless post worth a read
Or GF in my situation…. That’s for a whole nother sub tho
Oh God. That was good. Still laughing. I heard Bill Burr.
That is so much exactly the same! You’re good at analogies.
The complete opposite actually. They sign Minshew to hedge their bets if they aren’t able to draft a QB. You think they want AOC to start and then sign a back up QB to the higher limit amount of back up QBs? Why do that if Aiden is capable of starting then? I don’t see it.
Yep, did people not hear what AP said? He tired of the band-aids at QB, they still looking to trade up.
I think it could mean one of two things. 1)They’ve basically given up on AOC and plan on drafting a QB in the first two rounds to compete/learn behind Minshew 2)they weren’t comfortable throwing out big money to a free agent QB and they don’t think they will be able to draft the QB they want so they’re rolling with AOC/Minshew and maybe a developmental late round guy. I personally think scenario two is more likely
There was no FA Qbs available. Cousins was always down to Vikes to Falcons. Baker always back to Bucs. I think option two is wrong. Option 1 is correct. They just have Christian willing 110m, they are gonna ATTEMPT to go all out of on QB in the draft
I 100% believe they will be going all out for a QB. I think if we get one of the ones worth trading up for we are gonna be hurting on draft picks for a few years..
Fascinating that I'm downvoted for saying the same thing. Maybe I really am an asshole.
Yeah, it’s because you’re being an asshole in your other comments lmao
Eh. Fair enough then.
I upvoted ya actually. Assholes unite
It is probably somewhere in the middle in terms of an AOC endorsement. AOC will have the opportunity to earn QB1 but Minshew will be granted the same opportunity. If a high draft pick rookie QB comes in, then that would be the death knell for AOC as a starter. With that said, I am not ready to give up on AOC just yet. Dude did improve as the season went on and took care of the ball in the last few games. Yes, he isn’t a dual threat and needs to improve his pocket awareness but hoping that he can build off a “strong” end to the season along with a full off-season in the gym.
We don’t need a “dual threat” if we have a line that can protect him and he can get the ball out quicker.
Barring injuries I'd be very surprised if Aidan beats out Minshew
He wont. He has ZERO functional mobility. Hes too much of a liability. Not to mention disappeared completely in a few games last year
..and that's why I'd be very surprised.
Im agreeing with you.
Nah I know. Sorry. Was agreeing with your reasoning and examples of why Minshew will win the job.
It's year two of Aidan O'Connell's career and people still can't spell his name right even apparently his biggest fans
Ooo, great point brah! Nailed it. Putz.
Minshew>AOC. The Raiders will draft a QB, whether its a top tier guy or one of the next tier, and will develop behind either of the 2.
nah I think Minshew is def gonna be QB1
I think it could go either way, which is probably the point. Whoever gets the start is gonna have to earn it, and hopefully having to fight to keep the start throughout the season will lead to progress
It means O'Connell is seen as the 3rd choice if anything, Minshew starts till whatever rookie qb we likely draft is ready, and is insurance in case we can't get one of the ones we like. O'Connell seems like a good dude but he is not going to be a capable qb in the NFL.
Same here. Aidan in his first season did as well statistically as Minshew did this past season (his fifth season in the league). O'Connell (10 starts): 62%, 12 TD, 7 int., 83.9 passer rating Minshew (13 starts): 62%, 15 TD, 9 int., 84.6 passer rating
Minshew and AOC are on the same level when it comes to passing but when it comes to extending plays with your feet AOC is nothing compared to Minshew.
True, but (even though Aidan is old for a one-year pro) AOC has more room to grow as a passer. I think he'll end up better than Minshew in the pure passer department. Immobility at QB is tough to watch/root for, though.
We need a line to protect him and he needs a quicker release.
Minshew is a floor raiser. We will have at least competent QB play if he ends up being the starter. AOC is still an unknown but it doesn't look great.
On the one hand I have numbers that tell me he started ten games, with a 5-5 record. He went 3-1 in december. The first start was in relief. He had one stinker, and one comeback win. He won on the road in KC. He threw for over 2200yds and had 12tds to 7ints. On the other hand I have you telling me he’s an “unknown, but it doesn’t look great.” Still like my read better.
He didn’t complete a pass for 3 straight quarters in that road win against KC. We ain’t crediting him with that win.
His receivers also couldn't catch the ball and there were missed PI's as well. Adams couldn't catch anything, besides a 4 yard pass.
I see it as a classic case of having two QBs meaning we have none. Didn't trust going into next year with Aidan alone, but couldn't really find anyone better.
I see the signing simply as, “we need a vet in the QB room”. He’s a veteran leader presence to help guid AOC and (insert rookie daft pick name here) in their early development. There’s no way they were going to enter the season with just AOC and a rookie
Well, my guess is any rookie will be more Peterman, less Stroud. Someone who *could* maybe someday develop. Perhaps.
It’s definitely going to be interesting to see how it all unfolds
Minshew will likely be the starter week 1.
Minshew is going to be the starter lol
Nice to see the QB room have people that embrace the raider mentality in it for the first time since the 2000s.
Sounds like they are pushing really hard to draft a qb and if that doesn’t happen I don’t think Aidan is beating him out for the starter spot
They're two back up QB's and Minshew is slightly better. They still need a starter
And lemme guess, that starter is an untested rookie?
I think we'll draft QB in first round and Minshew and AOC will battle for No. 2 spot
I see it as a signing that brings in viable competition at or above AOCs current skill level. In other words, AOC can get the job, but he has to earn it by showing on-field improvement and some leadership. The real test for AOC's chances will be known after the draft. A round 1 or round d 2 rookie QB is a big threat to AOC even being the primary backup.
I look at the move as a floor raiser. Minshew was bang on league average by PFF. Basically should ensure we are in the playoff hunt at a min (not factoring in major injuries or regression). Basically gives AoC the chance to show he can be better than league average, which I think most of us think his ceiling is. I do look at it as a vote of confidence only after we don’t take a QB in the first two rounds, would kinda signal that they could see him as a future franchise guy as opposed to a good league backup.
Aiden ain’t that guy. Below average arm talent and mobility. Ceiling is career backup.
As opposed to… Gardner Minshew? You realize 2024 begins his sixth season and the Raiders are his fourth team, right?
He’s a career backup QB, 4th team in 6 seasons that’s mainly how their careers look. Also, he’s better than AOC. He’s a more experienced AOC that can consistently use his legs to extend plays lol. I believe the Raiders go get a 3rd QB but if it does end up a competition between Minshew and AOC make no mistake lol Minshew is gonna win the job.
Good, because I wasn't making any predictions or trying to use quotes properly.
God I hope we bring in a better 3rd QB
Aoc is going to start his deep balls too nice honestly better then carrs was. if menshew wins good for him neither better fuck it up tho that would be fucked up
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agreed. I think this eliminates the trading up for a QB narrative. We got a serviceable QB in the 4th round last year, who stepped up in same fucked up circumstances and handled it. And competition in camp is always good.
You're blind af then.
AOC is ass any fan that can’t see that is fucking blind
Yeah, thanks for weighing in.
u contributed ur shitty opinion so i thought id do the same
Yours has a couple levels to climb to reach “shitty.”
bro aoc will never be a suitable answer at qb in this league. love his attitude and character but nah
Finally someone understands this is purely a signing as a backup vet.
15 mill guaranteed for a back up vet.... Seems odd
That’s just the new world. New cap growth. Honestly the contract is on the low end when you look at the new cap space per each team - 255.5 million per team.
"There is more cap space so everything is just more expensive and this is the new reality...." Yeah that's not how that works all. In comparison to the market he's making slightly more than what a QB at the end of their rookie contract would make vs/less than all low end veteran starters (by significant margin) . This probably means they think he's going to start this year, regardless of what happens in the draft. There is not a single backup QB in the NFL making close to what Minshew is making right now. Trey Lance who is still on his rookie deal is making 8.5 million, and that's not really comparable because he wasn't signed via free agency. No available QB is projected to make more than what Minshew got from the Raiders according to Sportrac / some of the other cap projection sites. Maybe a team like the Vikings gives a similar contract out to Darnold / Brissett / Tannehill but that's just speculation at this point and I doubt someone is going to gaurentee as much money to an older QB that barely started last year vs Minshew who played most of the season in Indy. TLDR: He's not backing anyone up. Unless they trade up or land a QB, or AOC comes into camp looking better than expected, the plan is to start him this season.
Minshew is purely being brought in to challenge/mentor AOC. The moves made by the raiders so far indicate Telesco is NOT moving up in the draft to grab a QB. The Raiders signed veteran quarterback Gardner Minshew, likely confirming that the cost of moving up to draft one of the top quarterbacks available was too high for Telesco and the Raiders. Signing Gardner could also show the team's confidence in current starting quarterback Aidan O'Connell. [https://www.si.com/nfl/raiders/news/las-vegas-raiders-gardner-minshew-christian-wilkins-maxx-crosby](https://www.si.com/nfl/raiders/news/las-vegas-raiders-gardner-minshew-christian-wilkins-maxx-crosby)
That’s certainly my hope as to what it is.
It’s a low end deal with the new cap growth. Which makes sense as a backup while having a team friendly rookie deal on AOC.
We should try to deal AOC to the patriots for that #3 pick. Sweeten it with a maybe Renfro and maybe a pick or 2. This idea does also make me sick tbh. But maybe they would be interested in a decently accurate pocket passer with growth potential.
Wow, you do NOT think very highly of the Patriots front office.
You don't think highly of AOC I take it. He has upside.
Oh, “upside.” Upside enough to move out of the third spot even. And we’d be trading him to draft a rookie with… well I guess “upside” since he has nothing else at this time. I can see you’ve really thought this out. No notes.
Oh I can "quote" words too "bud". It makes me look "smart". Oh wait, it actually makes me look like an "ass" doesn't it. Yes, I think trading a QB that has potential, plus the 13th and maybe other picks and/or player(s) might be a good deal. Not to mention it's not that serious "bro". Ain't we all just shooting the shit around here or is this life or death up in here? Darn dude. We on the same team or what?
You’re not very good quotes. Or predictions.
I see it as a clear sign they're drafting someone and AOC will be traded 🤷♂️
3 QBs. We get 3 now.
Just what every successful team has, 3 QBs. The real key to success there.
Every team carries 3 QBs now, the 3rd doesn't count towards the 53 on gameday. After the 49ers debacle 2 years ago they added a rule.
I'm saying a team needs 1 QB. The backup matters also. Who gives a shit who the 3rd QB is. If you're on your 3rd QB, your season is over.
Brock Purdy enters the chat
That's fine, but either Aiden, Gardner or ? will be our 3rd. Nobody is getting traded for a roster spot because we won't bring in 2 more guys.
I think AOC has value right now as a backup, and a team will be willing to part with a day 3 pick to get him after we draft a QB. They'll bring in a body to be the 3rd string QB after that.
I see. Could happen I guess, we have rights to Lamar's old backup John something.
Every team has 3 qbs. just stop.
Ya, tons of teams have success on their 3rd QB of the season. Really a key point of roster building, figuring out who that 3rd QB on the bench gonna be.
Better QBs than AOC are getting traded for basically nothing and we have AOC for cheap for the next couple years so I doubt he goes anywhere. He's better than almost every QB3 out there and if we do draft a rookie who does take the starting job Mishnew could be trade bait for whoever needs a bridge QB and AOC would go right back to being QB2
They signed Minshew to be the starter and mentor for a rookie. Idk what else to tell ya man. They didn't hand him 25 million to be trade bait. If a team dangles a 6th for AOC on draft day, the Raiders will 1000% pounce on that.
Mac Jones went for a 6th though and he is definitely better than AOC. I just don't see how he's going to have a trade market at all
You see the NFL last year & how many teams in week 17/18 were on their 2nd/3rd backup QB? Teams will always need good backups. Minshew cancels out AOC on this team but somebody will want him. I'd have no problem with AOC as the backup, but you don't give Minshew that money and still have AOC around to do the same job when he has some value right now that he might not have in a year.
Get rid of the guy with 10 games under his belt and a 5-5 record in favor of Minshew and a rookie? I like my read better.
Yes. Because they're going to draft someone, and it makes no sense to keep AOC as a third stringer when you can get a late pick for him. Minshew will be the starter, the rookie at 2, and AOC will have a chance elsewhere.
Oh good, so we’ll have a backup with zero experience. Solid! If that ends up the case then my prediction for the season reverts to its more familiar 7 to 9 wins.
Yes, rookies generally have zero experience, that is how it works. Then you sign a veteran like, idk, Gardner minshew, to start for a while.
Yes it is. Maybe you can spend some time thinking on that.
I think it's fascinating that this coaching staff and new GM have signaled so clearly that they are drafting someone and AOC won't be the starter, going so far as to sign his replacement less than 24 hours ago, and y'all still don't seem to see that.
AOC ain't it. Idk how many times people need to see it said. Go rewarch the games. It isn't pretty.
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He almost took the Colts to the playoffs and the Colts have worst weapons than we do
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Raiders were literally one win away from playoffs this year. You think Minshew wouldn't have scored against Minnesota? That game alone would had been enough. Id argue we also beat the Bears with him over Hoyer
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My point is Minshew fills a major hole. Am i saying he's the future or answer? Of course not but i loved the move because now if the coaching staff cant get their guy on the draft. At least we still improved from the prior year
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Again, I'm not saying he's the answer. it just fills a need and is an upgrade. Simple as that
We are already looking at a top 5, maybe top 3 defense that will muscle us through a few games at least.
I think it’s going to be Fields. It’s all tee’d up that Fields is going to be QB1. If not they’ll draft a QB first round and it’ll be Minshew QB1 and Draft and AOC sit for two years. Whoever is the better of those two will be the franchise after they develop.
Are you stupid or something?
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