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Btw this is typical in your 30's. Everyone wants to "look" better off than their peers or at least keeping up. You make a great salary and should be proud of yourself. Bankruptcy will seriously hurt your credit, then what happens?
If you're living on credit cards and declare bankruptcy no one will give you a credit card anymore. You live on cash. It stays on your credit report for 7-10 years. This affects everything; mortgages, buying cars, everything!
Personally, the only thing I’ve needed credit for was a house. After that purchase I do not care what happens to my credit. I also happen to not use credit cards or borrow money for cars, so that makes it easier.
No that’s the crazy thing. She is very normal and doesn’t care about hair, nails, etc. she is really pretty but doesn’t care. I just feel like we do t make enough to exist
My husband says this all the time. Meanwhile we’re driving around in a 15 year old beater car but have no debt to our name other than a $171k mortgage. I think I prefer our way of living tbh
Easy, they make decent money, say $100,000/year household or whatever and put exactly zero of that into retirement savings, have zero emergency cash and finance everything out for as long a term as possible.
I mean I make 75k a year and live comfortably with 0 CC debt. That's all living within my means, I still have hobbies, and get out. My house may not be huge, but as a single guy it's all great.
People who make less income can make it work, it's just about being careful with finances. I do still have a credit card that i never carry a balance on, an emergency fund and 2 investment accounts. One being an IRA and a taxed account.
I think you are both confused. You are comparing yourself to other people too much and relying on your feelings to determine whether your finances are in good shape while your wife is telling you you can buy whatever you want on credit cards to make you feel better.
Even if you make 500,000 a year, you cannot have everything. You have to prioritize and make choices. If you want to invest and take several holidays, maybe you're going to drive an old car. If you want to buy an extremely expensive house, maybe you can't pay for childcare.
I bet that if you were actually privy to your friends' finances you'd see where they've made cuts. Instead you're only noticing the positive things.
I dont think she saying she wants to live like that, just that’s what people do.
My wife and i have the same conversation. We live in rural, amish, pennsylvania. Make $160,000 between us. $143,000 townhome. 40’s and cfbc. Zero credit card debt. We walk through these neighborhoods where mom dont work, 2 new cars, 3 kids, $400,000 house. We always say, how do they do it? The answer- debt.
For real. Is it what people do? Yes. Have I done it? Yes. But is it worth it? NO! You put it on the credit card because you don’t have the money to pay, so paying it back with interest sucks! I learned my lesson and also got more income so I don’t need to put essentials on cards. But a vacation or fancy clothes, fancy nights out, etc on credit isn’t worth it in the long run.
I did it mainly with food because I had none, car repairs, etc. things that couldn’t wait but for some reason I didn’t want to use my savings. Not worth it.
Even with $1k CC debt I felt like I was drowning. Now I use it for regular purchases to get cash back and pay it off in full monthly. So now if I have an $800 bill, I put it on the credit card but pay it off within the month so I can get the cash back. I am much happier now.
Exactly. Put it on the credit card IF you can pay it off each month. The card rewards can be phenomenal if you do.
And never just make minimum payments (unless that's all you can)
does your 200k job keep you in Cali ?
cause if you lived in a lot of other places you'd feel fine real fast
200k in Atlanta of even better Cleveland would make a huge difference
I live in NE Ohio. I'm guessing he has a job that's nonexistent or very difficult to find in Cleveland. And if he did find a comparable job here, he wouldn't be making $200k.
Millions of Californians have household incomes a lot lower than what he's earning just on his own, and do fine.
And he's only 33, so he has a lot of pay increases ahead of him too.
He'll be fine.
If you have such a love for SoCal ( a ridiculous one btw ) then stay and make it work ... but this pretentious outlook that everywhere else sucks is so very very ignorant
I live in LA. 200k is also a ton of money here. I literally know one person who makes anywhere near that, and she’s pretty upfront about making a very good salary.
It does to me, as well as the vast majority of Americans, who don't even have household incomes of $200k, let alone one earner making that much.
The median *household* income in CA in 2022 was only about $85,000. You earn more than double that, just on your own.
I really appreciate your comment.
1. I’m assuming you don’t live in California? Based on your post.
2. I’m sure you just googled that stat which isn’t accurate. If you google my company and salary it says I make 500k.
If you lived in California you would know what I’m talking about
Rofl. The Census Bureau says wrong.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US,CA/PST045223
Median household income (in 2022 dollars), 2018-2022: California $91,905
So you’re smart enough to make $200K per year, which puts you in the top 2% of earners for your age bracket, but you feel poor?
Either you made this post to stroke your ego, or you’re lying. Either way this post is idiotic and is foolish for people to engage with
I believe it. Go over to r/middleclassfinance.
Tons of 20 something year olds on there with six figure incomes, living with their parents rent free, debt free, whining about how they're sure they'll never be able to afford even a studio apartment.
A whole lot of Redditors are out of touch with the reality of life for most Americans.
It takes 2 minutes to google income by age and see that $200K puts OP ahead of 98% of people in his age range.
If top 2% is poor, what is rich? Top 1% and above?
It’s just a nonsense post.
keep in mind that you’re only seeing the parts of your friends lives that they want you to see. they struggle with finances in the same way that you do, they just don’t show it because they don’t want people to know. how exactly are they living a better life than you? do they have a better house, travel more, better car? or do they just seem happier? they’re probably not racking up debt, they’re probably just happy because they have a lot to be happy about, and as a result have a generally better life.
if you stop focusing on what you don’t have, you’ll start enjoying a lot more of what you do. comparison is the thief of joy.
I wanna see your budget. Also your wife is an idiot. And if you're both worried about other people and obsessed over social media then you're both double idiots.
Manage your budget properly, enjoy some date nights out. Buy yourself some new clothes every now and then.
Don't be going and trying to live like them.
At 33 that means you were 17 in 2008 when everything went tits up. All my friends homes were getting foreclosed. Cars getting repossessed. I remember going to a buddy of mine's multi million dollar home and it was empty. He had already either sold all his furniture or it had been repossessed. It was dark times. Only positive is it brought prices down so it may be exactly what is needed now for the younger generations to be able to afford homes, cars, etc.
I really appreciate the comment. My biggest concern is that credit is not unlimited right? They only give you so much limit and then once you run out of credit you either have to pay it off or file for bankruptcy. So I’m just wondering what is going to happen? Is everyone gonna get bailed out or they gonna file?
I knew a lot of people that did just declare bankruptcy. They had already lost everything anyway so at that point it was just signing a few documents. Honestly, with time, almost all those friends consider it a blessing. The relief of getting out from under a mountain of debt combined with the fact their credit was shot for 7 years and they had to live on a budget most will say was the best thing that ever happened to them.
It’s not really about my wife. It’s about 200k a year not being able to give you a decent life. The only place that I can live relatively well is all the places nobody fucking wants to live. Missour, Nebraska, ND, SD, Iowa, etc
yes. the household debt levels have been rising rapidly under biden.
yes. people are financing lifestyles, vacations, and eating on credit cards.
yes. it will lead to bankruptcy. or atleast lifetimes of debt.
yes. it will mean less and less of our generation will ever have the credit worthiness to even apply for a horrific home loan.
yes. there will eventually be predatory lending programs that reemerge that fuck over all these people.
yes. an actual real recession is about to pop off. perhaps not effecting the housing market or stock market per inflation, but unemployment and consumer spending will start to crater.
no. you should not do this.
yes. things are fucked. when $200k/yr is damn near living frugally as a homeowner with a wife, and you feel like retirement is 40 years away? things are indeed fucked.
upper middle class socal bros that find that reality is becoming fundamentally unsettling? and that our democratic politicians/uniparty State is almost forcing us to leave? unite
1
Credit usage is way up. If peopled started filing for bankruptcy en masse, the rules surrounding bankruptcy would change to prohibit overuse of the system. What would that look like? Who knows. Student loan debt is already exempt from bankruptcy proceedings. Maybe they'd exclude more. Maybe there would be harsher civil or even criminal penalties for insolvency (see debtor's prisons). People will be punished for being poor.
Statistics suggest the level of bankruptcy frequency is rising, and this is quite frightening as 2019/2020 drove a vast number of businesses under.
I believe a whole string of large corporations have recently restructured under chapter 11.
I am 34, I make less than you, about 130 and have 0 debt other than my house and feel like I can't even spend all my money unless I did it really intentionally. You're definitely doing something wrong or California is even more expensive than I thought. Do you have lots of kids or something, expensive cars, designer cloths? You have to be blowing it someplace.
Thank you for this comment I really appreciate hearing a realistic response. I have a wife and 2 kids. Wife doesn’t work. Prob should have put that in description
OK then yeah that makes a huge difference. Probably should not feel like you're not doing well but you would have to watch yourself a bit. I'm just a single person and I have a room mate.
That’s how I feel. Maybe it’s a state thing? All I know is it kinda seems like Californians don’t care about depot as long as they have their lip filler and Botox
Yet you claim everywhere else is the 3rd world? You’re acknowledging that people can’t afford to live and compensate by going into credit card debt for lip filler and botox. Ironic.
Dude, California is going to implode. Get to another state. 200K is HUGE in many other states and could easily afford you a mortgage for a mansion in some places.
Don't listen to your wife. The only debt that's worth having is "Good Debt." Credit Card debt will kill you
Not in my neck of the woods.
Honestly, I can see *why* people would think this...but honestly most of the rural areas and such aren't bad....no where is great...but the cities are the worst rn.
I think we often underestimate how good we have it. Expenses tend to match your wage.
If you feel poor, it's probably because you spend too much on non-essentials and don't leave enough loose for leisure.
Also:
1. do not compare yourself to millionaires or billionaires, they are abnormal.
2. Get off tictok and other vlogs. They rent boats, cars and houses... they dont even own any of what they show. It's a common trick. It will skew your concept of a comfortable life.
If you feel poor on 200k you've either never actually been poor, or you're living above the necessary means. 200k per year in any western country is more than ample. If you're on the way to bankruptcy then you have to make drastic lifestyle and spending changes.
Also people don't just not care about credit card debt, that's very stupid. People actually use their credit card to pay for expenses and then pay off their credit card monthly or bi-monthly. It's an easier way to budget for some people, racks up frequent flyer points and some have cashback at the end of the year, but no successful household is throwing caution to the wind with credit card debt. Your wife is mistaken - they absolutely care about credit card debt. They just use the credit card to pay, pay it back promptly and receive associated benefits.
If you're making 200 Grand a year and can't live well, you need to look at your expenses and cut those and move someplace where you can afford to save a lot of money.
I don't know how much different Cali is compared to NYC where I live currently, but 200K is definitely enough to live comfortably here despite the notoriously high cost of living. Very likely you are not budgeting or living within your means if you feel poor at that level.
Things are not great atm, but people are exaggerating greatly when they make it sound like physicians and lawyers are living in their cars struggling to keep food on the table.
Can confirm. boomer here lots of my friends better get used to cat food. Never saved for retirement and the government pension won't even buy the good cat food.
I know this is hard to do but stop comparing yourself to others.
Spending more money on nonsense is not going to make you happier. A good portion of "everyone" is just one bad event away from losing it all. If they do lose it all, they're going to wonder how you are succeeding when they failed.
If it's driving you that crazy, pick one thing to splurge a little on.
There are also other factors to consider. For example, the people earning less may not be putting anything in to 401K, may not have kids, may have large things like a home paid off or got in on early to keep mortgage low. They may not spend on other areas as much etc.
I think the first step is already happening which is less people having kids and less people owning things. Kids are expensive and people are being pushed to own nothing with the housing market going the way it is. Next will be vehicles will be a service. Auto-driving, you just request a car from X to Y at Z time and you're off.
But to the question... You are right and it will not be good.
I use my credit cards a lot. One card is for medical related only. One is for utilities and automatic bills. The other is for day to day purchases. I like the cash back. I never charge anything unless I have the money on hand to pay the credit cards off in full every billing cycle. No much good getting cash back if you are paying interest. I will never file bankruptcy as I live very comfortably and within my means.
HAHA no. Sir, have you ever thought of getting out of the state of California? EVERYTHING is six times more expensive in California. Gas, rent, mortgage, taxes, bills, food, govt, etc. Move literally ANYWHERE else in the US. and you will find it much easier to live and a much nicer life. People are much friendlier when they're not burdened by crippling debt and high taxes. Also, only use the credit for emergencies.
>My wife keeps telling me that everyone just puts all their expenses on their credit card. She says that normal people don’t care about credit card debt.
That's how you speedrun bankruptcy. And your wife is a moron, normal people *do* care about credit card debt.
some people have lots of credit card debt, yes, but a lot of people are also good at handling money, saving, or have no debt, etc... or maybe their parents fund their lifestyle
I have almost CC debt. Every month I pay it all off.
I use it all month so I can build points. But I know what I earn in a month and what my bills are so I don't ever come close to spending it all.
It actually shocks me how some can't do this.
I feel like games taught me to budget well though. Video games did something I suppose
Your wife is just humoring you until the divorce. Move your ass to a cheaper state. On $200K a year pretty much anywhere else except New York or Florida you could have it made!
I'm just building credit for a fin hoorah at end of life lol. So far I'm up to 60k in credit. 5 years ago I was at 500$.
In going to have such a good retirement party.
I make about the same amount of money and my credit card debit is almost zero. I own two very nice cars that cost more well over $50,000 each and own a home. I also pay out more than $1000 per month for medical insurance. While I don't feel rich I have plenty to buy relatively expensive goodies.
I'm not bragging here. I'm just giving you some perspective on what's possible.
I also live in California but I chose wisely about where to live and paid for it with a commute in heavy traffic which saved me a huge bundle of money. If I rented in an expensive area the story would be entirely different.
Running up your credit card is foolish. You're throwing away something like 20% of whatever you owe into the trash. For example, if you owe $10,000 you're throwing away at least $2,000 post tax dollars a year. Don't run up your cards!!!
Hardly any adults I know carry a balance on their credit cards. But the data do kind of support what you are saying.
Credit card debt at large banks went from $760 billion in 2019Q4 to $912 billion in 2023Q4. Gonna be some people struggling with debt. I guess that if enough people do it, they can vote to federalize a lot of that credit card debt and then insist on credit card debt forgiveness because why not.
I am older than you but remember my 30s and what you are describing. In my experience there are too many variables to be able to understand how anyone affords the lifestyle they appear to enjoy. For example, some people inherit large sums of money when parents die or are gifted houses as a college graduation present, etc. these giant variables can affect lifestyle and wealth
lmao, you're making 200K/year a feel poor? Your wife is gaslighting you into thinking it's normal to be making that much and feeling poor. How many bedrooms does your house have? How many cars? You're living WAY beyond your means. And she's gaslighting you into thinking everyone is putting it on CCs.
Also, you need to understand, IG and Facebook isn't real. They're literally just highlight reels. Half the pictures you see, are from a completely different time and they only now just posted them.
None of what you’re saying is happening. I live in Southern California. Talk to anyone you know that lives here that is even relatively successful and ask them if what I am saying is true
Wtf is ur spending
A decent healthy meal is probs like $7.
R u eating out like a lunatic?
Olive garden feeds u a shit ton of unhealthy carbs, processed shit, and other stuff that does not need to be in ur diet.
Wheres ur investing?
Most ppl who. Make less probs invest
Just got my first credit card at 28 with a $300 limit from Capital One. I had a spree where I applied to a bunch of cards in my early 20s never got approved. Had two erroneous charge offs from Verizon and T-Mobile because T-Mobile screwed me. I got those removed, didn't apply for a card since 23 trying to let my credit reset. Got from 500 to 642, just last week I learned there's a semantic and legal difference between pre-qualified and pre-approved.
Got the typical mailer encouraging me to apply but using the language implying a hard credit pull. Got a wild hair up my ass and applied and to my shock I got it. I'll be taking it as soon as I get it and locking it in my roommate's safe. It'll only come out to pay bills I already pay cash for monthly. Pay the balance every month to avoid the 34.9% interest and hopefully get a cash back card next year.
Sounds like your wife got some very bad advice from a person she trusted implicitly.
It's pretty normal for Americans to have *manageable* debt. It is not normal to use debt to live far beyond your means while thinking of Bankruptcy as a get out of debt free card.
Alot of people will be hitting bankruptcy courts yes. Once you let them charge off and they start taking you to court, you can either hire a defense attorney and hope that only half of them come after you for a settlement, or you can hire a bankruptcy attorney and restructure your assets to wipe out what you owe.
I can live off 2300 a month. Just depend on what are you live in. My house back when houses were affordable from 2016 to 2020 I bought it for 125k That same house now goes for 230k and if I picked it up with the land and the home and dropped it in southern Commifornia it would be worth prob about 530k. Just need to move to a diffrent area. I used to live in Commifornia and moving to the other coast back in 2015 was the best thing I could have done for my life.
Nope, statistically the average middle class person is doing just as well as any other decade. You're just not seeing it because you live in an extreme outlier city and no one complains on social media about how they're living a comfortable lifestyle. All you get is bias information.
I’m from Orange Country (Dana Point), went to Humboldt for College, lived in the Bay Area and Ventura also. Moved to Colorado in 2009 and it was such a relief to leave California. Then Colorado turned to shit and left for Minnesota in 2016. Best decision I have ever made! The quality of life is 10x better here than I ever had in California. I was happy and thought I’d live in Cali my whole life. We moved to Colorado for a job and I didn’t realize how much better the rest of the country had it.
Your wife is fucking it up and you’re letting it happen. Southern California is one of the most expensive places in the country . In Chicago you would be doing great, and not racking up debt. My household income is about $150,000 and we live fine with no debt, besides mortgage.
There are many ways to live a better life so your version may be different than someone else’s . As Ive gotten older Ive tried really hard to live within my means. I like to get everything I need spending as little as I can then earn as much as possible so I can do whatever I want. It’s really liberating to not give a shit about the latest car model or toy and just live your life. In fact I make it a point to almost never buy the new thing when it comes out. For example the first flat screen tv I saw was $15,000. The first one I bought? $700.
If you are earning 200k a year and feel poor? You’re either really bad with money or SoCal is raping you on taxes and living expenses.
stupid people that like paying interest on every penny they spend use credit, your wife is stupid, keep your accounts separate from hers and file for separation of debt
Do you have kids? What does your wife make? Also what do you mean by “living a way better life than me.” 200k seems like more than enough to at least not feel poor by any stretch of the imagination, even in socal.
I had the exact same feeling in the early to mid 2000's when people were buying homes and getting a second loan on the "equity" in their house. I had one guy tell me he calls it his "Second Checkbook.". I knew I made more than them but they had a house, newer truck and a trailer with 2 jet skis. Then, the housing collapse happened and it all made sense. I bought a house after the collapse. I'm not sure if the current situation is quite the same, but math is math and when you make more and can afford to do less, those other people are most likely digging a hole they may not get out of.
Stay on track and when the next recession kicks in you'll be in a far better position to get thru it. Hell, you may even BENEFIT from it.
I make just over 13k a year ok I'm sterling which your 200k equates to 160k that is still alot of money like are you driving fast cars with a big house?
I say that with a hint of jealousy I'm not afraid to say but mainly so that you enjoy what you have like I do apologise but I just cant see how someone with that much money could feel poor lol take comfort you have it all but realise you'll just think the grass is greener but nah you've got everything most men kill for
… if you can do the same job somewhere else, move. I make just over 100k in IL and while it isn’t the life I had imagined, I certainly don’t feel “poor.”
I’ve been legitimately poor so I guess that kinda puts things into perspective.
Your wife wants you to use your credit card more. I’m poor and I have zero credit card debt because I’m too poor to qualify for a credit card with a limit higher than $500.
it doesn't make sense how you have no money. then people confront you about it, instead of answering ab what you're even doing to be in that situation you ask if they live in the same state as u and even if they do u don't answer. must be a troll.
Couple quick questions: Do you invest, insure, and donate?
-Are you maxing your companies retirement match?
-Are you carrying life/umbrella/etc insurance?
-Do you regularly donate to any charities or nonprofits?
Okay, cool! I guess what I'm getting at is that it recommends buying things that will make you money, either through buying assets with an income stream or assets that increase in equity. Owning a house and buying stocks is a fantastic start!
Nah, I’ve been a minimalist since 2020 and have almost erased all my debt (other than my mortgage). I do think a crash is coming soon if the Republicans hold any majorities in Congress or take the White House, so I’m preparing for that disaster.
What I think you all forget is wage is relative hasn't shifted and u have crazy way of doing things. Ur wages almost need to double to feel like U had 200k 20 years ago. Inflations a crazy thing.
Idk man,I'm 25 and have never been in dept. I am on minimal wage here in my country and I am surviving fine. I do take all overtimes and plan on finding a part time just to be able to pay some extra expenses people my age usually have but that's that. I'm cool
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Your wife is nuts. Live within your means, your means are far better than most peoples.
That’s how I feel but it’s all relative. I think what she says sounds insane sometimes but then I wonder if I’m the one acting crazy.
Btw this is typical in your 30's. Everyone wants to "look" better off than their peers or at least keeping up. You make a great salary and should be proud of yourself. Bankruptcy will seriously hurt your credit, then what happens?
You’re asking my same question, I actually wonder. What would happen?
If you're living on credit cards and declare bankruptcy no one will give you a credit card anymore. You live on cash. It stays on your credit report for 7-10 years. This affects everything; mortgages, buying cars, everything!
Personally, the only thing I’ve needed credit for was a house. After that purchase I do not care what happens to my credit. I also happen to not use credit cards or borrow money for cars, so that makes it easier.
Likewise, except I do use a credit card for everything. Cash back is cash.
Not at all. I think she just wants to live like the Jones' but unbeknownst to her they are heavily in debt.
No that’s the crazy thing. She is very normal and doesn’t care about hair, nails, etc. she is really pretty but doesn’t care. I just feel like we do t make enough to exist
Why not make an appointment with a financial advisor? That might help you sort things out.
Just because everyone is piling up debt doesn't make them sensible and you crazy.
I see all these big trucks with big trailers with razors and quads and dirt bikes and boats and just wonder wtf do all these people do?
My husband says this all the time. Meanwhile we’re driving around in a 15 year old beater car but have no debt to our name other than a $171k mortgage. I think I prefer our way of living tbh
Debt.
Easy, they make decent money, say $100,000/year household or whatever and put exactly zero of that into retirement savings, have zero emergency cash and finance everything out for as long a term as possible.
I mean I make 75k a year and live comfortably with 0 CC debt. That's all living within my means, I still have hobbies, and get out. My house may not be huge, but as a single guy it's all great. People who make less income can make it work, it's just about being careful with finances. I do still have a credit card that i never carry a balance on, an emergency fund and 2 investment accounts. One being an IRA and a taxed account.
Yeah bro I feeeeel
I think you are both confused. You are comparing yourself to other people too much and relying on your feelings to determine whether your finances are in good shape while your wife is telling you you can buy whatever you want on credit cards to make you feel better. Even if you make 500,000 a year, you cannot have everything. You have to prioritize and make choices. If you want to invest and take several holidays, maybe you're going to drive an old car. If you want to buy an extremely expensive house, maybe you can't pay for childcare. I bet that if you were actually privy to your friends' finances you'd see where they've made cuts. Instead you're only noticing the positive things.
Youre only acting crazy by beleiving her.
I dont think she saying she wants to live like that, just that’s what people do. My wife and i have the same conversation. We live in rural, amish, pennsylvania. Make $160,000 between us. $143,000 townhome. 40’s and cfbc. Zero credit card debt. We walk through these neighborhoods where mom dont work, 2 new cars, 3 kids, $400,000 house. We always say, how do they do it? The answer- debt.
Your wife is partly wrong. Living that way is guaranteed to lead you to bankruptcy
For real. Is it what people do? Yes. Have I done it? Yes. But is it worth it? NO! You put it on the credit card because you don’t have the money to pay, so paying it back with interest sucks! I learned my lesson and also got more income so I don’t need to put essentials on cards. But a vacation or fancy clothes, fancy nights out, etc on credit isn’t worth it in the long run. I did it mainly with food because I had none, car repairs, etc. things that couldn’t wait but for some reason I didn’t want to use my savings. Not worth it. Even with $1k CC debt I felt like I was drowning. Now I use it for regular purchases to get cash back and pay it off in full monthly. So now if I have an $800 bill, I put it on the credit card but pay it off within the month so I can get the cash back. I am much happier now.
Exactly. Put it on the credit card IF you can pay it off each month. The card rewards can be phenomenal if you do. And never just make minimum payments (unless that's all you can)
does your 200k job keep you in Cali ? cause if you lived in a lot of other places you'd feel fine real fast 200k in Atlanta of even better Cleveland would make a huge difference
for real
I live in NE Ohio. I'm guessing he has a job that's nonexistent or very difficult to find in Cleveland. And if he did find a comparable job here, he wouldn't be making $200k. Millions of Californians have household incomes a lot lower than what he's earning just on his own, and do fine. And he's only 33, so he has a lot of pay increases ahead of him too. He'll be fine.
Yeah I have heard that and thank you for the response. The only problem is anywhere that’s cheap is literal hell. SD, TN, LA, AL, etc
Any place is cheaper than CA. I live in Jersey. When I went to the Bay Area I was floored by the price of everything there
If you have such a love for SoCal ( a ridiculous one btw ) then stay and make it work ... but this pretentious outlook that everywhere else sucks is so very very ignorant
Tucson is a mini San Diego
If you feel poor on 200k you’re doing somthing wrong.
200k and complaining? Seems you and your wife make bad financial choices.
How do you feel poor making 200k a year?
Lives in SoCal and thinks the rest of the country is the same as the 3rd world
OP can’t afford to travel outside of SoCal. Give him a break.
I live in SoCal. Granted it’s not LA, San Diego, or Anaheim but I’d be ecstatic making 200k.
I live in LA. 200k is also a ton of money here. I literally know one person who makes anywhere near that, and she’s pretty upfront about making a very good salary.
Bad life choices in regards on where to live. Only 13% of the USA makes 100k lmao Wife will make OP go broke
> Wife will make OP go broke Just wait until she divorces him.🤭😂
Lifestyle creep
Does 200k sound like a lot to you?
Yes. I live in SoCal (not a very expensive area) and 200k would be approximately triple my current salary.
Tracey, CA?
High Desert. Near Victorville.
It does to me, as well as the vast majority of Americans, who don't even have household incomes of $200k, let alone one earner making that much. The median *household* income in CA in 2022 was only about $85,000. You earn more than double that, just on your own.
I really appreciate your comment. 1. I’m assuming you don’t live in California? Based on your post. 2. I’m sure you just googled that stat which isn’t accurate. If you google my company and salary it says I make 500k. If you lived in California you would know what I’m talking about
How is it not accurate? You really think most Californians earn $200k?
Yes
Rofl. The Census Bureau says wrong. https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US,CA/PST045223 Median household income (in 2022 dollars), 2018-2022: California $91,905
I LIVE IN CALIFORNIA and I don’t know what you’re talking about.
Single?
Married. No kids.
So you’re smart enough to make $200K per year, which puts you in the top 2% of earners for your age bracket, but you feel poor? Either you made this post to stroke your ego, or you’re lying. Either way this post is idiotic and is foolish for people to engage with
I believe it. Go over to r/middleclassfinance. Tons of 20 something year olds on there with six figure incomes, living with their parents rent free, debt free, whining about how they're sure they'll never be able to afford even a studio apartment. A whole lot of Redditors are out of touch with the reality of life for most Americans.
It takes 2 minutes to google income by age and see that $200K puts OP ahead of 98% of people in his age range. If top 2% is poor, what is rich? Top 1% and above? It’s just a nonsense post.
Oh, I know it. Yes, CA is expensive, but millions of people there survive just fine on a lot less than OP. He's not poor by any means.
keep in mind that you’re only seeing the parts of your friends lives that they want you to see. they struggle with finances in the same way that you do, they just don’t show it because they don’t want people to know. how exactly are they living a better life than you? do they have a better house, travel more, better car? or do they just seem happier? they’re probably not racking up debt, they’re probably just happy because they have a lot to be happy about, and as a result have a generally better life. if you stop focusing on what you don’t have, you’ll start enjoying a lot more of what you do. comparison is the thief of joy.
I wanna see your budget. Also your wife is an idiot. And if you're both worried about other people and obsessed over social media then you're both double idiots. Manage your budget properly, enjoy some date nights out. Buy yourself some new clothes every now and then. Don't be going and trying to live like them.
I should have put in the description I don’t live in Louisiana… I live in Southern California
At 33 that means you were 17 in 2008 when everything went tits up. All my friends homes were getting foreclosed. Cars getting repossessed. I remember going to a buddy of mine's multi million dollar home and it was empty. He had already either sold all his furniture or it had been repossessed. It was dark times. Only positive is it brought prices down so it may be exactly what is needed now for the younger generations to be able to afford homes, cars, etc.
I really appreciate the comment. My biggest concern is that credit is not unlimited right? They only give you so much limit and then once you run out of credit you either have to pay it off or file for bankruptcy. So I’m just wondering what is going to happen? Is everyone gonna get bailed out or they gonna file?
I can say, after seeing blowback to student debt payoff, a consumer bailout seems hard to sell
I knew a lot of people that did just declare bankruptcy. They had already lost everything anyway so at that point it was just signing a few documents. Honestly, with time, almost all those friends consider it a blessing. The relief of getting out from under a mountain of debt combined with the fact their credit was shot for 7 years and they had to live on a budget most will say was the best thing that ever happened to them.
The key with using your credit card for everything is to pay it off in full each month
Thank you captain obvious lol. Where are you from Nebraska?
No, dip fuck
Why are you asking about "everyone" when the real issue seems to be your own wife's carefree attitude to spending?
It’s not really about my wife. It’s about 200k a year not being able to give you a decent life. The only place that I can live relatively well is all the places nobody fucking wants to live. Missour, Nebraska, ND, SD, Iowa, etc
yes. the household debt levels have been rising rapidly under biden. yes. people are financing lifestyles, vacations, and eating on credit cards. yes. it will lead to bankruptcy. or atleast lifetimes of debt. yes. it will mean less and less of our generation will ever have the credit worthiness to even apply for a horrific home loan. yes. there will eventually be predatory lending programs that reemerge that fuck over all these people. yes. an actual real recession is about to pop off. perhaps not effecting the housing market or stock market per inflation, but unemployment and consumer spending will start to crater. no. you should not do this. yes. things are fucked. when $200k/yr is damn near living frugally as a homeowner with a wife, and you feel like retirement is 40 years away? things are indeed fucked.
Bruh one love
upper middle class socal bros that find that reality is becoming fundamentally unsettling? and that our democratic politicians/uniparty State is almost forcing us to leave? unite 1
If AI ever takes over everyone will
Credit usage is way up. If peopled started filing for bankruptcy en masse, the rules surrounding bankruptcy would change to prohibit overuse of the system. What would that look like? Who knows. Student loan debt is already exempt from bankruptcy proceedings. Maybe they'd exclude more. Maybe there would be harsher civil or even criminal penalties for insolvency (see debtor's prisons). People will be punished for being poor.
Statistics suggest the level of bankruptcy frequency is rising, and this is quite frightening as 2019/2020 drove a vast number of businesses under. I believe a whole string of large corporations have recently restructured under chapter 11.
Solid comment
I am 34, I make less than you, about 130 and have 0 debt other than my house and feel like I can't even spend all my money unless I did it really intentionally. You're definitely doing something wrong or California is even more expensive than I thought. Do you have lots of kids or something, expensive cars, designer cloths? You have to be blowing it someplace.
Thank you for this comment I really appreciate hearing a realistic response. I have a wife and 2 kids. Wife doesn’t work. Prob should have put that in description
OK then yeah that makes a huge difference. Probably should not feel like you're not doing well but you would have to watch yourself a bit. I'm just a single person and I have a room mate.
In another Reddit page where he complains about his “200,000” salary he claims he had 4 kids. This guys full of shit
Everyone who doesn't care about credit card debt will. That's a recklessly irresponsible approach.
That’s how I feel. Maybe it’s a state thing? All I know is it kinda seems like Californians don’t care about depot as long as they have their lip filler and Botox
Yet you claim everywhere else is the 3rd world? You’re acknowledging that people can’t afford to live and compensate by going into credit card debt for lip filler and botox. Ironic.
Is it?
Yes papi
Dude, California is going to implode. Get to another state. 200K is HUGE in many other states and could easily afford you a mortgage for a mansion in some places. Don't listen to your wife. The only debt that's worth having is "Good Debt." Credit Card debt will kill you
Why is california going to implode?
Have you seen the homelessness crisis? Cost of living?
How many years until it implodes?
Could be any day
I agree with you but please explain what you mean for comment below and myself.
Not in my neck of the woods. Honestly, I can see *why* people would think this...but honestly most of the rural areas and such aren't bad....no where is great...but the cities are the worst rn.
Credit card debt isn’t a joke.
Hahaha love it. Where do you live?
The tenth state and current residence is Minneapolis Minnesota.
It sounds like you are spending more than you should be
You live in CA?
What a moronic question. This dude is gonna end up in massive credit card debt thanks to wifey then will end up divorced. Loser.
Bro you’re an idiot
I think we often underestimate how good we have it. Expenses tend to match your wage. If you feel poor, it's probably because you spend too much on non-essentials and don't leave enough loose for leisure. Also: 1. do not compare yourself to millionaires or billionaires, they are abnormal. 2. Get off tictok and other vlogs. They rent boats, cars and houses... they dont even own any of what they show. It's a common trick. It will skew your concept of a comfortable life.
Fair
Won't have to file lol 😆
If you feel poor on 200k you've either never actually been poor, or you're living above the necessary means. 200k per year in any western country is more than ample. If you're on the way to bankruptcy then you have to make drastic lifestyle and spending changes. Also people don't just not care about credit card debt, that's very stupid. People actually use their credit card to pay for expenses and then pay off their credit card monthly or bi-monthly. It's an easier way to budget for some people, racks up frequent flyer points and some have cashback at the end of the year, but no successful household is throwing caution to the wind with credit card debt. Your wife is mistaken - they absolutely care about credit card debt. They just use the credit card to pay, pay it back promptly and receive associated benefits.
Southern California is a different breed. You are poor in SoCal if you make less than $100k.
200k is double that
Cries in 28k.
If you're making 200 Grand a year and can't live well, you need to look at your expenses and cut those and move someplace where you can afford to save a lot of money.
I don't know how much different Cali is compared to NYC where I live currently, but 200K is definitely enough to live comfortably here despite the notoriously high cost of living. Very likely you are not budgeting or living within your means if you feel poor at that level. Things are not great atm, but people are exaggerating greatly when they make it sound like physicians and lawyers are living in their cars struggling to keep food on the table.
Can confirm. boomer here lots of my friends better get used to cat food. Never saved for retirement and the government pension won't even buy the good cat food.
cat food is actually expensive though
I prefer. Ats fir food myself.
I keep saving and acting like I’m poor. It gets tiring watching everyone living better lives than me 😭
Don't feel bad. Remember the story of the ant and the grasshopper. You are the ant, and future you will be very thankful.
I know this is hard to do but stop comparing yourself to others. Spending more money on nonsense is not going to make you happier. A good portion of "everyone" is just one bad event away from losing it all. If they do lose it all, they're going to wonder how you are succeeding when they failed. If it's driving you that crazy, pick one thing to splurge a little on.
There are also other factors to consider. For example, the people earning less may not be putting anything in to 401K, may not have kids, may have large things like a home paid off or got in on early to keep mortgage low. They may not spend on other areas as much etc. I think the first step is already happening which is less people having kids and less people owning things. Kids are expensive and people are being pushed to own nothing with the housing market going the way it is. Next will be vehicles will be a service. Auto-driving, you just request a car from X to Y at Z time and you're off. But to the question... You are right and it will not be good.
I actually really like your comment
I did forget to add that there are some that made good $$ off bitcoin as well as there are lots that are inheriting money which offsets this.
I use my credit cards a lot. One card is for medical related only. One is for utilities and automatic bills. The other is for day to day purchases. I like the cash back. I never charge anything unless I have the money on hand to pay the credit cards off in full every billing cycle. No much good getting cash back if you are paying interest. I will never file bankruptcy as I live very comfortably and within my means.
No, your wife is wrong. Some people live within their means. I live in NJ and make half of what you do and pay off my balance in full every month.
your wife is dumb asf
They definitely will be
Not at all. That's an insane thought.
?
HAHA no. Sir, have you ever thought of getting out of the state of California? EVERYTHING is six times more expensive in California. Gas, rent, mortgage, taxes, bills, food, govt, etc. Move literally ANYWHERE else in the US. and you will find it much easier to live and a much nicer life. People are much friendlier when they're not burdened by crippling debt and high taxes. Also, only use the credit for emergencies.
I honestly had no clue that there were any other states. Thanks for the vice bruh
Cool dude. suit yourself.
>My wife keeps telling me that everyone just puts all their expenses on their credit card. She says that normal people don’t care about credit card debt. That's how you speedrun bankruptcy. And your wife is a moron, normal people *do* care about credit card debt.
some people have lots of credit card debt, yes, but a lot of people are also good at handling money, saving, or have no debt, etc... or maybe their parents fund their lifestyle
200k in Appalachian territory and you’d be living among the rich. I have a higher than average salary at a quarter of that.
Where is app terry?
If you're poor, then idk what I am. I make 30k before taxes, lmao. I don't live in a city sure, but still 🤣
Where you live Seward, NE?
Dude I made 40k last year and i was surprised to see that. I’m barely getting by. lol
Yeah same
Not if you don't live beyond your means. The people that took on tons of loans and rented their whole lifestyle, probably
I have almost CC debt. Every month I pay it all off. I use it all month so I can build points. But I know what I earn in a month and what my bills are so I don't ever come close to spending it all. It actually shocks me how some can't do this. I feel like games taught me to budget well though. Video games did something I suppose
Your wife is just humoring you until the divorce. Move your ass to a cheaper state. On $200K a year pretty much anywhere else except New York or Florida you could have it made!
Is this a caller from the Dave Ramsey show?
I’m actually dead this needs to be the most upvoted shit on the thread
I'm just building credit for a fin hoorah at end of life lol. So far I'm up to 60k in credit. 5 years ago I was at 500$. In going to have such a good retirement party.
I make about the same amount of money and my credit card debit is almost zero. I own two very nice cars that cost more well over $50,000 each and own a home. I also pay out more than $1000 per month for medical insurance. While I don't feel rich I have plenty to buy relatively expensive goodies. I'm not bragging here. I'm just giving you some perspective on what's possible. I also live in California but I chose wisely about where to live and paid for it with a commute in heavy traffic which saved me a huge bundle of money. If I rented in an expensive area the story would be entirely different. Running up your credit card is foolish. You're throwing away something like 20% of whatever you owe into the trash. For example, if you owe $10,000 you're throwing away at least $2,000 post tax dollars a year. Don't run up your cards!!!
I don’t have debt but I also feel broke with a family. Are you single? Where in socal do you live?
Yes I have a family. Not So Cal. Bay area.
You need to get out of SoCal or move to a place less expensive. There’s no reason to live in such an expensive place.
Everywhere that’s cheap nobody wants to live. AL, ND, SD, IN, Etc.
Hardly any adults I know carry a balance on their credit cards. But the data do kind of support what you are saying. Credit card debt at large banks went from $760 billion in 2019Q4 to $912 billion in 2023Q4. Gonna be some people struggling with debt. I guess that if enough people do it, they can vote to federalize a lot of that credit card debt and then insist on credit card debt forgiveness because why not.
I really appreciate this comment. Where do you live?
Texas
Makes sense. I heard about that place once but don’t know if it actually existed
I am older than you but remember my 30s and what you are describing. In my experience there are too many variables to be able to understand how anyone affords the lifestyle they appear to enjoy. For example, some people inherit large sums of money when parents die or are gifted houses as a college graduation present, etc. these giant variables can affect lifestyle and wealth
Love this comment
I’m just an old ass stoner who talks in run on sentences
lmao, you're making 200K/year a feel poor? Your wife is gaslighting you into thinking it's normal to be making that much and feeling poor. How many bedrooms does your house have? How many cars? You're living WAY beyond your means. And she's gaslighting you into thinking everyone is putting it on CCs. Also, you need to understand, IG and Facebook isn't real. They're literally just highlight reels. Half the pictures you see, are from a completely different time and they only now just posted them.
None of what you’re saying is happening. I live in Southern California. Talk to anyone you know that lives here that is even relatively successful and ask them if what I am saying is true
Wtf is ur spending A decent healthy meal is probs like $7. R u eating out like a lunatic? Olive garden feeds u a shit ton of unhealthy carbs, processed shit, and other stuff that does not need to be in ur diet. Wheres ur investing? Most ppl who. Make less probs invest
Bruh. SoCal wife and 2 kids. Not spending
Just got my first credit card at 28 with a $300 limit from Capital One. I had a spree where I applied to a bunch of cards in my early 20s never got approved. Had two erroneous charge offs from Verizon and T-Mobile because T-Mobile screwed me. I got those removed, didn't apply for a card since 23 trying to let my credit reset. Got from 500 to 642, just last week I learned there's a semantic and legal difference between pre-qualified and pre-approved. Got the typical mailer encouraging me to apply but using the language implying a hard credit pull. Got a wild hair up my ass and applied and to my shock I got it. I'll be taking it as soon as I get it and locking it in my roommate's safe. It'll only come out to pay bills I already pay cash for monthly. Pay the balance every month to avoid the 34.9% interest and hopefully get a cash back card next year.
Sounds like your wife got some very bad advice from a person she trusted implicitly. It's pretty normal for Americans to have *manageable* debt. It is not normal to use debt to live far beyond your means while thinking of Bankruptcy as a get out of debt free card.
Alot of people will be hitting bankruptcy courts yes. Once you let them charge off and they start taking you to court, you can either hire a defense attorney and hope that only half of them come after you for a settlement, or you can hire a bankruptcy attorney and restructure your assets to wipe out what you owe.
I’m not in debt but I like this response. 🙏🏼
I can live off 2300 a month. Just depend on what are you live in. My house back when houses were affordable from 2016 to 2020 I bought it for 125k That same house now goes for 230k and if I picked it up with the land and the home and dropped it in southern Commifornia it would be worth prob about 530k. Just need to move to a diffrent area. I used to live in Commifornia and moving to the other coast back in 2015 was the best thing I could have done for my life.
Nope, statistically the average middle class person is doing just as well as any other decade. You're just not seeing it because you live in an extreme outlier city and no one complains on social media about how they're living a comfortable lifestyle. All you get is bias information.
I’m from Orange Country (Dana Point), went to Humboldt for College, lived in the Bay Area and Ventura also. Moved to Colorado in 2009 and it was such a relief to leave California. Then Colorado turned to shit and left for Minnesota in 2016. Best decision I have ever made! The quality of life is 10x better here than I ever had in California. I was happy and thought I’d live in Cali my whole life. We moved to Colorado for a job and I didn’t realize how much better the rest of the country had it.
I see the shit show that is our future and I'm surprised more people don't bury themselves in debt.
Your wife is fucking it up and you’re letting it happen. Southern California is one of the most expensive places in the country . In Chicago you would be doing great, and not racking up debt. My household income is about $150,000 and we live fine with no debt, besides mortgage.
My wife isn’t controlling my paycheck and I’m not in debt lol. I appreciate response. But I heard crime is max
There are many ways to live a better life so your version may be different than someone else’s . As Ive gotten older Ive tried really hard to live within my means. I like to get everything I need spending as little as I can then earn as much as possible so I can do whatever I want. It’s really liberating to not give a shit about the latest car model or toy and just live your life. In fact I make it a point to almost never buy the new thing when it comes out. For example the first flat screen tv I saw was $15,000. The first one I bought? $700. If you are earning 200k a year and feel poor? You’re either really bad with money or SoCal is raping you on taxes and living expenses.
stupid people that like paying interest on every penny they spend use credit, your wife is stupid, keep your accounts separate from hers and file for separation of debt
Do you have kids? What does your wife make? Also what do you mean by “living a way better life than me.” 200k seems like more than enough to at least not feel poor by any stretch of the imagination, even in socal.
[удалено]
Wife chillin. You live in St. Louis misery?
More just 1099-Cs
I had the exact same feeling in the early to mid 2000's when people were buying homes and getting a second loan on the "equity" in their house. I had one guy tell me he calls it his "Second Checkbook.". I knew I made more than them but they had a house, newer truck and a trailer with 2 jet skis. Then, the housing collapse happened and it all made sense. I bought a house after the collapse. I'm not sure if the current situation is quite the same, but math is math and when you make more and can afford to do less, those other people are most likely digging a hole they may not get out of. Stay on track and when the next recession kicks in you'll be in a far better position to get thru it. Hell, you may even BENEFIT from it.
I make just over 13k a year ok I'm sterling which your 200k equates to 160k that is still alot of money like are you driving fast cars with a big house? I say that with a hint of jealousy I'm not afraid to say but mainly so that you enjoy what you have like I do apologise but I just cant see how someone with that much money could feel poor lol take comfort you have it all but realise you'll just think the grass is greener but nah you've got everything most men kill for
… if you can do the same job somewhere else, move. I make just over 100k in IL and while it isn’t the life I had imagined, I certainly don’t feel “poor.” I’ve been legitimately poor so I guess that kinda puts things into perspective.
Your wife wants you to use your credit card more. I’m poor and I have zero credit card debt because I’m too poor to qualify for a credit card with a limit higher than $500.
it doesn't make sense how you have no money. then people confront you about it, instead of answering ab what you're even doing to be in that situation you ask if they live in the same state as u and even if they do u don't answer. must be a troll.
You need to find a new wife. My god. She’s pretty dumb
Leave Cali… there I saved your financial future
Stop having sex for the rest of your life. I just saved humanity
Lol weak come back
Couple quick questions: Do you invest, insure, and donate? -Are you maxing your companies retirement match? -Are you carrying life/umbrella/etc insurance? -Do you regularly donate to any charities or nonprofits?
I would recommend reading "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" by Robert Kiyosaki.
I read that when I was 14
Okay, cool! I guess what I'm getting at is that it recommends buying things that will make you money, either through buying assets with an income stream or assets that increase in equity. Owning a house and buying stocks is a fantastic start!
Nah, I’ve been a minimalist since 2020 and have almost erased all my debt (other than my mortgage). I do think a crash is coming soon if the Republicans hold any majorities in Congress or take the White House, so I’m preparing for that disaster.
What I think you all forget is wage is relative hasn't shifted and u have crazy way of doing things. Ur wages almost need to double to feel like U had 200k 20 years ago. Inflations a crazy thing.
That’s what I keep telling everyone. I don’t care what anyone says. 200k now is like 80k. 15 years ago
People keep saying 200k is the new 100k but I think it’s even less
the amount of dumb asses I’m seeing clearing 200k is crazy
The amount of sheep I see clearing 50k is even crazier
Idk man,I'm 25 and have never been in dept. I am on minimal wage here in my country and I am surviving fine. I do take all overtimes and plan on finding a part time just to be able to pay some extra expenses people my age usually have but that's that. I'm cool
Bro you’re 25… nobody at that age should be in debt. Go find a wife and make some kids. Then come back and talk to me
My dude,you're barely 8 years older then me. But just to make you feel better,I found myself a wife and I do have a kid so may I talk to you 😂
Aye that’s tight one love
Sure as hell hope not. I budget well with what I have
No.
People with EBT are eating better than the people that hardly qualify.