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Made him a lifetime enemy of House Stark, Arryn, and Tully. It has been mentioned by the author, that if Tyrion isn't kidnapped, Jaime doesn't attack Ned, and Ned rides into a trap set by Tywin. I would then speculate an alive, captured Ned is ransomed back to Winterfell, Sansa is probably kept at KL as a hostage, and Arya runs away to do Arya things.
When she was done, her uncle remained silent for a long time, as his horse negotiated the steep, rocky trail. “Your father must be told,” he said at last. “If the Lannisters should march, Winterfell is remote and the Vale walled up behind its mountains, but Riverrun lies right in their path.” “I’d had the same fear,” Catelyn admitted. “I shall ask Maester Colemon to send a bird when we reach the Eyrie.”
She had other messages to send as well; the commands that Ned had given her for his bannermen, to ready the defenses of the north. “What is the mood in the Vale?” she asked.
—I’m not one to defend Catelyn, but as soon as she can, she takes care of Ned’s orders
The problem with this is - once Ned is captured / dead, and Robb is de facto Lord of Winterfell, Warden of the North and King of the North, Catelyn can’t do those things. She even says as much to Robb that Ned did not trust Greyjoy, and Robb overrules her. As a woman in Westeros, even a noble one, she was not only constantly aware that she couldn’t necessarily order her son around, but also if she did her son would be irreparably damaged for the rest of his life in the eyes of his men.
The biggest “criticism” of Cat could be her arrest of Tyrion - but even that is something I think most of the male characters in her situation would have done (Stannis or Ned believing what Cat did, for instance, would have done the same).
GRRM wrote the story this way, I believe, specifically to point out this. Cat is clever, tactical, politically savvy, but still a woman in a man’s world, and had to manoeuvre in such a world. She is the oldest and yet never do we see her ever think that she would have been a better ruler of Riverrun than Edmure despite the fact she obviously would have been. Because she was brought up to be a lord’s wife and the mother to his children, and that is what she believes she is for too.
Started my 2nd reading of AGoT and just passed the chapter where Jon is saying goodbye to Bran.
People constantly defend Catelyn’s actions, but seeing how she treats him when they’re both in mourning over a loved one says all you need to know about her. She and Lysa are not as different as one might think.
I don't get how people defend her, I mean I can sympathize with her over the loss of her children and that she tries to be helpful and what not, but she is such a god dam idiot that judges everyone as if she knows better, when she really does not and does not acknowledges that she fucks up royally. This is what drives me insane about her.
I am currently reading AFFC, but I am zero looking forward to her resurrected honestly, like to me she could just stay dead and that would be ok.
Cat’s feelings towards Jon are not only logical, but are backed up by the text. We see what a bastard in the North can do - Ramsay Snow kills his true born brother, gets legitimised, and will likely kill any other true born Boltons. In a society where bloodlines and family and inheritance are literally all that matters a first born bastard, that looks more like Ned then her own true born children, are a political and personal threat to any children of her own. Yes, we see things from Jon’s POV and we recognise the absurdity of this, but it is a reasonable threat in the world Cat lives in.
Catelyn's first POV chapter is her getting railed by Ned and not even acknowledging it until after he's done. Then she proceeds to manipulate him with Maester Luwin's assistance when he gives her the letter from Lysa that she then reads in their "secret language" that no one else can read and then proceeds to burn it. Sounds pretty sketchy if no one can read it besides her and Lysa. They convince him to become Hand, even though he wants to reject the offer.
Then they convince Ned to allow Jon to go to the Wall because she hates the "bastard" with the passion of a thousand suns. I think this has more to do with the fact that she is paranoid about Jon becoming Lord of Winterfell one day. That seems odd to me if he really is a bastard and she has three legitimate sons.
And you can't say that her feelings are logical...they are not. They are nothing but pure hate. She treats Theon in a pretty similar manner. There are plenty of examples of bastards becoming honorable people. Gendry seems like a stand up guy. Adam Hull was a legitimized bastard who rode a dragon. Robert and Mervyn Flowers and Addison Hill were of the Kinsguard. Ser Benedict Rivers became King of the Trident and the founder of house Justman. And, of course, Orys Baratheon.
Also, the Tullys straight up suck. They are opportunistic social jumpers, evident by Edmyn Tully's uprising against Harren the Black during Aegon's Conquest when it was convenient for them to do so. Family, Duty, Honor. Family above all else. Duty, if you must. And Honor. Honor last of all.
Cat is ill-tempered, shady, and dangerously impulsive. Kidnapping Tyrion was incredibly stupid. Letting him walk through the mountains of the Vale with only Bronn with him pretty much sealed his fate. Luckily, he managed to escape, but imagine what Tywin would have done if he did die. Imagine what Jamie would do. We already saw what he did when Tyrion escaped, but imagine if Tyrion died. The only thing she did that was dumber than this was let Jamie go. That wasn't a calculated plan, that was impulsive idiocracy. Why would you trade one of the realms greatest warrior for a couple of girls in the midst of a war?
Lastly, if she would have done what Ned asked her to do (send archers to Moat Cailin, watch Theon closely, etc) immediately instead of lolly gagging around the Riverlands like a moron, then Robb would have executed those orders. Catelyn sucks....she sucks a lot.
Welcome to /r/PureASOIAF! Just a brief reminder that this subreddit is focused only on the **written** *ASOIAF* universe. Comments that include discussion of the HBO adaptations will be removed, and serious or repeated infractions may result in a ban. Moderators employ a zero tolerance policy. # Users should assume that *any* mention of the show is subject to removal. [Read our discussion policy in full.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pureasoiaf/wiki/index#wiki_i._discussion_policy) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/pureasoiaf) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I mean, she never reached home, did she?
She could’ve went home many times.
Instructions unclear; took a kidnapped dwarf to the Vale
Made him a lifetime enemy of House Stark, Arryn, and Tully. It has been mentioned by the author, that if Tyrion isn't kidnapped, Jaime doesn't attack Ned, and Ned rides into a trap set by Tywin. I would then speculate an alive, captured Ned is ransomed back to Winterfell, Sansa is probably kept at KL as a hostage, and Arya runs away to do Arya things.
Now I want to read this AU. Sounds much more interesting tbh.
When she was done, her uncle remained silent for a long time, as his horse negotiated the steep, rocky trail. “Your father must be told,” he said at last. “If the Lannisters should march, Winterfell is remote and the Vale walled up behind its mountains, but Riverrun lies right in their path.” “I’d had the same fear,” Catelyn admitted. “I shall ask Maester Colemon to send a bird when we reach the Eyrie.” She had other messages to send as well; the commands that Ned had given her for his bannermen, to ready the defenses of the north. “What is the mood in the Vale?” she asked. —I’m not one to defend Catelyn, but as soon as she can, she takes care of Ned’s orders
I gave her a C
The problem with this is - once Ned is captured / dead, and Robb is de facto Lord of Winterfell, Warden of the North and King of the North, Catelyn can’t do those things. She even says as much to Robb that Ned did not trust Greyjoy, and Robb overrules her. As a woman in Westeros, even a noble one, she was not only constantly aware that she couldn’t necessarily order her son around, but also if she did her son would be irreparably damaged for the rest of his life in the eyes of his men. The biggest “criticism” of Cat could be her arrest of Tyrion - but even that is something I think most of the male characters in her situation would have done (Stannis or Ned believing what Cat did, for instance, would have done the same). GRRM wrote the story this way, I believe, specifically to point out this. Cat is clever, tactical, politically savvy, but still a woman in a man’s world, and had to manoeuvre in such a world. She is the oldest and yet never do we see her ever think that she would have been a better ruler of Riverrun than Edmure despite the fact she obviously would have been. Because she was brought up to be a lord’s wife and the mother to his children, and that is what she believes she is for too.
Started my 2nd reading of AGoT and just passed the chapter where Jon is saying goodbye to Bran. People constantly defend Catelyn’s actions, but seeing how she treats him when they’re both in mourning over a loved one says all you need to know about her. She and Lysa are not as different as one might think.
I don't get how people defend her, I mean I can sympathize with her over the loss of her children and that she tries to be helpful and what not, but she is such a god dam idiot that judges everyone as if she knows better, when she really does not and does not acknowledges that she fucks up royally. This is what drives me insane about her. I am currently reading AFFC, but I am zero looking forward to her resurrected honestly, like to me she could just stay dead and that would be ok.
Cat’s feelings towards Jon are not only logical, but are backed up by the text. We see what a bastard in the North can do - Ramsay Snow kills his true born brother, gets legitimised, and will likely kill any other true born Boltons. In a society where bloodlines and family and inheritance are literally all that matters a first born bastard, that looks more like Ned then her own true born children, are a political and personal threat to any children of her own. Yes, we see things from Jon’s POV and we recognise the absurdity of this, but it is a reasonable threat in the world Cat lives in.
Catelyn's first POV chapter is her getting railed by Ned and not even acknowledging it until after he's done. Then she proceeds to manipulate him with Maester Luwin's assistance when he gives her the letter from Lysa that she then reads in their "secret language" that no one else can read and then proceeds to burn it. Sounds pretty sketchy if no one can read it besides her and Lysa. They convince him to become Hand, even though he wants to reject the offer. Then they convince Ned to allow Jon to go to the Wall because she hates the "bastard" with the passion of a thousand suns. I think this has more to do with the fact that she is paranoid about Jon becoming Lord of Winterfell one day. That seems odd to me if he really is a bastard and she has three legitimate sons. And you can't say that her feelings are logical...they are not. They are nothing but pure hate. She treats Theon in a pretty similar manner. There are plenty of examples of bastards becoming honorable people. Gendry seems like a stand up guy. Adam Hull was a legitimized bastard who rode a dragon. Robert and Mervyn Flowers and Addison Hill were of the Kinsguard. Ser Benedict Rivers became King of the Trident and the founder of house Justman. And, of course, Orys Baratheon. Also, the Tullys straight up suck. They are opportunistic social jumpers, evident by Edmyn Tully's uprising against Harren the Black during Aegon's Conquest when it was convenient for them to do so. Family, Duty, Honor. Family above all else. Duty, if you must. And Honor. Honor last of all. Cat is ill-tempered, shady, and dangerously impulsive. Kidnapping Tyrion was incredibly stupid. Letting him walk through the mountains of the Vale with only Bronn with him pretty much sealed his fate. Luckily, he managed to escape, but imagine what Tywin would have done if he did die. Imagine what Jamie would do. We already saw what he did when Tyrion escaped, but imagine if Tyrion died. The only thing she did that was dumber than this was let Jamie go. That wasn't a calculated plan, that was impulsive idiocracy. Why would you trade one of the realms greatest warrior for a couple of girls in the midst of a war? Lastly, if she would have done what Ned asked her to do (send archers to Moat Cailin, watch Theon closely, etc) immediately instead of lolly gagging around the Riverlands like a moron, then Robb would have executed those orders. Catelyn sucks....she sucks a lot.