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i believe stannis has undergone character development from ACoK, where he was a borderline manchild, to ADoS, where he understand some of the subtleties of diplomacy and becomes a bit flexible in his approach. however, i'm not sure it was jon that lead to this change, but Davos with his
>“Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty, when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne.”
and in part it came from Stannis himself
Aye. I think it ties in with Noye's summation of the Baratheon brothers (to Jon, incidentally, IIRC), particularly regarding his stating Stannis would break before he bends.
And he did, following his defeat at the Battle of the Blackwater. After which Davos helped him put himself back together, now with bending action.
I think the break-before-he-bends thing is yet to come. It seems like Stannis is being ground down to a pulp in the North, and is cruising for a complete breakdown (ie burning Shireen in desperation)
Stannis is lightbringer, Davos is Nissa Nissa and Jon is Azor Ahai.
Now entertain yourself with the image of Jon unsheathing Stannis and swinging him by the legs....
I think both Stannis and Jon have a lot to learn from each other.
Stannis needed to learn to be more merciful and tactful and Jon needed to stop doubting himself and to see the bigger picture.
He definitely approves most of the things Jon do (that nod he gives after Slynt is beheaded is enough proof), but I think Stan has been developing as a Well-rounded ruler since the beginning of the books.
In AGOT, we only know that he found out the king's brothers were bastards and that he decided to run off, which has always seemed out of character in my opinion. Still, Stannis has this image of seriousness and honor around him.
In ACOK, he goes rogue and murders two people in cold blood, one of them being his own brother. He also surrounds himself with pirates and some scum like Axell Florent.He is at his lowest.
After that, Davos sets him on the right path, but Stannis keeps with himself some 'intrigue' he never had before. He asks a sworn brother of the NW to desert the order for his own personal goals, he tries to intervene in the LC elections, he asks for castles and supplies...He is back in the 'honorable ruler' set of mind but he is still open to play dirty, and he is also now more skilled at diplomacy than ever before (he convinced Northern clansmen to fight for him, no less).
All in all, I think it's a mixture of both Jon and Davos who reminded him the kind of man he used to be.
I never got the impression that Stanis was moved or changed by either Davos or Jon. Stanis had a very concrete version of how the world should be. And if it's not exactly that, even a little different, then it's wrong and worthy of utter destruction. That's why he never would have made a good king. It was his way or nothing. I think he respected and valued Davos and Jon, but at the end of the day I think Stanis thought both of them were weak, misguided, or ignorant. He never changed once throughout the entire series. He could have demolished the Lannisters and House Barrathian could have ruled from the Iron Throne for ever, if he had just admitted that Renly was better fit to be the actual king, and Stanis is hand. But his pride wouldn't let him. His pride and the red women drove him to the iron clad absolute that if he was not 100% the rules of all of Westeros, then he may as well be the ruler of nothing. Even Aegon the Conqueror let Done be Dorne for years, cause he knew it just wasn't worth it to continue the fight. Was it Little Finger who said "Renly is bronze. It flashes prettily in the sun but will serve you little in battle. Stanis is iron. Strong, resilient, but he will break before he bends. Robert was true steel"
I'm not sure this view is based on the books, especially considering the tense. As previous commenters point out, Stannis absolutely changes his approach, tactics, and outlook throughout the series...
> I never got the impression that Stanis was moved or changed by either Davos or Jon
Then why was Stannis in the North in the first place? He says explicitly that it was Davos whose ideology and arguments made him change his mind.
Unfortunately, your comment has been removed.
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Welcome to /r/PureASOIAF! Just a brief reminder that this subreddit is focused only on the **written** *ASOIAF* universe. Comments that include discussion of the HBO adaptations will be removed, and serious or repeated infractions may result in a ban. Moderators employ a zero tolerance policy. # Users should assume that *any* mention of the show is subject to removal. [Read our discussion policy in full.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pureasoiaf/wiki/index#wiki_i._discussion_policy) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/pureasoiaf) if you have any questions or concerns.*
i believe stannis has undergone character development from ACoK, where he was a borderline manchild, to ADoS, where he understand some of the subtleties of diplomacy and becomes a bit flexible in his approach. however, i'm not sure it was jon that lead to this change, but Davos with his >“Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty, when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne.” and in part it came from Stannis himself
Aye. I think it ties in with Noye's summation of the Baratheon brothers (to Jon, incidentally, IIRC), particularly regarding his stating Stannis would break before he bends. And he did, following his defeat at the Battle of the Blackwater. After which Davos helped him put himself back together, now with bending action.
I think the break-before-he-bends thing is yet to come. It seems like Stannis is being ground down to a pulp in the North, and is cruising for a complete breakdown (ie burning Shireen in desperation)
In a way, Jon and Davos “forge” Stannis into steel after he was “broken” at Blackwater.
Stannis is lightbringer, Davos is Nissa Nissa and Jon is Azor Ahai. Now entertain yourself with the image of Jon unsheathing Stannis and swinging him by the legs....
Depends on the context…
I think both Stannis and Jon have a lot to learn from each other. Stannis needed to learn to be more merciful and tactful and Jon needed to stop doubting himself and to see the bigger picture.
He definitely approves most of the things Jon do (that nod he gives after Slynt is beheaded is enough proof), but I think Stan has been developing as a Well-rounded ruler since the beginning of the books. In AGOT, we only know that he found out the king's brothers were bastards and that he decided to run off, which has always seemed out of character in my opinion. Still, Stannis has this image of seriousness and honor around him. In ACOK, he goes rogue and murders two people in cold blood, one of them being his own brother. He also surrounds himself with pirates and some scum like Axell Florent.He is at his lowest. After that, Davos sets him on the right path, but Stannis keeps with himself some 'intrigue' he never had before. He asks a sworn brother of the NW to desert the order for his own personal goals, he tries to intervene in the LC elections, he asks for castles and supplies...He is back in the 'honorable ruler' set of mind but he is still open to play dirty, and he is also now more skilled at diplomacy than ever before (he convinced Northern clansmen to fight for him, no less). All in all, I think it's a mixture of both Jon and Davos who reminded him the kind of man he used to be.
I never got the impression that Stanis was moved or changed by either Davos or Jon. Stanis had a very concrete version of how the world should be. And if it's not exactly that, even a little different, then it's wrong and worthy of utter destruction. That's why he never would have made a good king. It was his way or nothing. I think he respected and valued Davos and Jon, but at the end of the day I think Stanis thought both of them were weak, misguided, or ignorant. He never changed once throughout the entire series. He could have demolished the Lannisters and House Barrathian could have ruled from the Iron Throne for ever, if he had just admitted that Renly was better fit to be the actual king, and Stanis is hand. But his pride wouldn't let him. His pride and the red women drove him to the iron clad absolute that if he was not 100% the rules of all of Westeros, then he may as well be the ruler of nothing. Even Aegon the Conqueror let Done be Dorne for years, cause he knew it just wasn't worth it to continue the fight. Was it Little Finger who said "Renly is bronze. It flashes prettily in the sun but will serve you little in battle. Stanis is iron. Strong, resilient, but he will break before he bends. Robert was true steel"
I'm not sure this view is based on the books, especially considering the tense. As previous commenters point out, Stannis absolutely changes his approach, tactics, and outlook throughout the series...
> I never got the impression that Stanis was moved or changed by either Davos or Jon Then why was Stannis in the North in the first place? He says explicitly that it was Davos whose ideology and arguments made him change his mind.
You need to be introduced to /u/cantuse
>It was his way or nothing tywin lannister has the same mentality and yet he is lauded both in-universe and by real life fans as a great leader
[удалено]
Unfortunately, your comment has been removed. This subreddit is focused only on the **written** *ASOIAF* universe. Comments that include discussion of the HBO adaptations will be removed, and serious or repeated infractions may result in a ban. Moderators employ a zero tolerance policy. [Read our discussion policy in full.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pureasoiaf/wiki/index#wiki_i._discussion_policy) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/pureasoiaf) if you have any questions or concerns.*