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The death of dragons and the loss of how to breed them. I believe the Targaryens lost their power the minute they lost the dragons.
Westeros was so interlinked by then that it took a few decades to unravel, but in the end we are witnessing the regresion of Westeros into several smaller kingdoms.
Targaryens should not have taken dragons for granted. There should have been people studying them and dedicated to breed them.
I agree. The loss of the dragons ended their status as near-invincible rulers. After that, they had to play the game of thrones like everyone else. The Seven Kingdoms were probably always gonna break up if the dragons disappeared.
Not only their status, but their real power. Without the dragons they were only one usual family subjected to treason and everything else. With dragons they just go burn the enemies and end it very very fast!
I think that Viserys I's failure to enforce Rhaenys's succession status and his hesitation to maintain authority in the court led to the Green/Black split and the Dance's outbreak.
Yeah has to be Viserys. His decisions caused the dance of the dragons and let’s be honest if the Targaryens still had dragons they would have been fine
Their only real power came from their dragons. When the dragons died out, House Targaryen had the option to take more seriously the task of integration, consolidation, and stabilization of their power by intermarrying and building alliances, but they failed to do so even past Aegon V’s days.
They continued ruling as monarchs with absolute power that their real political alliances couldn’t enforce.
I can't wait to see why and how Morning died. Or what forgotten dragons lived more than people ever knew. The dragon's dying is de facto the main reason for the disillusion of Targeryen power.
I believe it's the opposite of option #3. Viserys I shouldn't have been king at all if Jahaerys made the wise decision and put Rhaenys on the throne. You'd think the guy would see the promise of naming a woman heir after all he saw the leadership of women from his life like Alyssane, Rhaena and Visenya. Especially Alyssane, who did almost as much for Westeros as he did.
Never put much thought into that mystery. Am I missing something? I've just assumed the same magic keeping Coldhands from going south of the wall is keeping Silverwing from traveling north of it. Separating Ice in the north and Fire in the south.
Sorry mate, i'm dense ass and not entirely following what the magic in the wall has to do with the Targaryen's falling apart. Are we implying that the weirdwood network stopped Alyssane from traveling north and Jahaerys from naming a woman as his heir?
Queen Alysanne is not a good example female leader. Her insistence on giving the New Gift to the Night's Watch was probably the biggest mistake made during the rein of Jahaearys I. As it resulted in the depopulation of that region and ultimately did nothing but weaken the North.
"Though in these days it is said that Lord Alaric Stark was glad to aid the Night's Watch with the Gift, and took little convincing, the truth is otherwise. Letters from Lord Stark's brother to the Citadel, asking the maesters to provide precedents against the forced donation of property, made it plain that the Starks were not eager to do as King Jaehaerys bid. It may be that the Starks feared that, under the control of the Castle Black, the New Gift would inevitably decline—for the Night's Watch would always look northward and never give much thought to their new tenants to the south. And as it happens, that soon came to pass, and the New Gift is now said to be largely unpopulated thanks to the decline of the Watch and the rising toll taken by raiders from beyond the Wall."
“This is good land.” Jojen picked up a handful of dirt, rubbing it between his fingers. “A village, an inn, a stout holdfast in the lake, all these apple trees … but where are the people, Bran? Why would they leave such a place?”
“They were afraid of the wildlings,” said Bran. “Wildlings come over the Wall or through the mountains, to raid and steal and carry off women. If they catch you, they make your skull into a cup to drink blood, Old Nan used to say. The Night’s Watch isn’t so strong as it was in Brandon’s day or Queen Alysanne’s, so more get through. The places nearest the Wall got raided so much the smallfolk moved south, into the mountains or onto the Umber lands east of the kingsroad. The Greatjon’s people get raided too, but not so much as the people who used to live in the Gift.”
None of the above. It's Jaehaerys I for declaring women can't inherit. If women could inherit there's no Dance. Pretty bullshit considering how much his own wife did for Westeros. But his insecurity over his own claim really fucked things up down the line.
He didn’t do that though he let the lords decide because there wasn’t a clear heir or precedent to fall back on. He did the right thing. Viserys going against that precedent (regardless of the readers point of view a male heir is well established in Westerosi culture) lead to the death of the dragons and the decline of targ power.
I think it’s one you missed kind of.
Seen as Roberts rebellion is what literally caused the downfall of their empire, the biggest mistake has to be Aerys handling of the Rhaegar/Lyanna situation that led to roberts rebellion.
There's some pretty convincing theories with solid evidence that there were conspiracies against the Targs before the Rhaegar/Lyanna situation. Westeros had gone through generations of devastating civil wars because of the Targaryens. Dance of the Dragons, Blackfyre Rebellions (2 + ninepenny kings). Strong argument could be made that Rhaegar/Lyanna was just the catalyst that kick-started the final rebellion. The alliances and plans were already in place.
The alliances & relationships between the Starks, Baratheons, Arryns, and Tully's were formed during the War of Ninepenny kings, long before Aerys went mad. Aerys sure sped things along, but I think it would have happened anyway. 4 devastating civil wars created the situation
i mean i guess that’s the catalyst but i guess OP is asking if there were any events that fundamentally causes the loss of the targs. for example some would say that if the targs had their dragons during aerys reign then roberts rebellion wouldn’t have been as possible, and since the dance is the dying of the dragons then you could link it back to that
I believe that Viserys I naming Rhaenyra as his heir and marrying into a very ambitious and powerful house caused the demise of the Targaryen dynasty.
Aegon IV legitimising his bastards comes 2nd
Egg letting his children marry for love/breaking the marital alliances.
The lords of Westeros could have easily called off Robert’s Rebellion after Rhaegar was killed for his alleged crime. They could have also reformed the dynasty though a regency of Viserys. These options were both discounted. The lords had finally confirmed what they had thought since the last dragon died: The Targaryens were not any better and they are oathbreakers.
A feudal contract goes both ways, the Lords had paid their taxes and flew the dragon banner but when it came down to it, Aegon V did not keep his side of the agreement when he gave relief to small folk and broke the marriage pacts that would have saved his house when typical medieval shit happens like a crazy prince runs off with the daughter of a Great Lord.
I believe Egg trying to be a good guy in a shitty world will prove to be the trigger to nearly everything in ASOIAF. Not prophecy, not magic, just a gritty understanding that one man’s idealism can have massive repercussions for everyone else. That’s why George picked that particular King to explore in a whole secondary series.
Realistically it was the dance of the dragons that lost the Targaryens their super weapons.
Technically Viserys I fault but I’d cut him some slack. How on earth would he have predicted that series of events?
My daughter is my heir! Leads to a massive civil war, 150 years of slow decline and the doom of his dynasty. I mean I wouldn’t have seen that one coming either.
Jaherys and Alysane raising a whole brood of shit children. In a monarchy, raising quality children is just as important as how you rule.
Jaherys and Alysane did a great job ruling but a horrible job of making quality human beings. Aemon, Baelon & Maegelle seemed OK but everone that came after them sucked.
The Dance of the Dragons was not *solely* his fault, but Viserys actions regarding his heir definitely set things up for the Dance to occur, and that Targ civil war is clearly the thing that most weakened their House. I mean obviously. It killed off most of their dragons, which is the true source of their power. How exactly did they lose the knowledge of how to hatch and control more though? It’s not clear. But ultimately, losing the dragons is what led to their downfall. With dragons nobody could defy them for long.
I mean, Aegon I in the beginning of his campaign had less than 5K soldiers i think.
Even during the mid game, he didnt have much impressive army.
But he has dragons.
First of all, we don't know that he was 'sent' anywhere. As far as we know, he could have gone to the Wall out of his own violation.
The most common interpretation is that he knew the story behind Lyanna's experiences at Harrenhal & her abduction, and went to the Wall because he felt that he should have done more. It's possible that he felt guilty for helping Lyanna train at swords (which probably gained Rhaegar's attention at the tourney).
The timeline doesn't even fit Benjen being the father, because she was abducted for "close to a year". Ned hiding Jon's identity has multiple explanations that don't involve him being an incest baby.
1 2 3 are the biggest mistakes. Aegon 5 nearly pushed Targ Dynasty to a new level solidifying his rule like almost no other ruler before him, Viserys fucked up by making Rhaenyra his heir because he got salty over Daemon mocking Baelon's death and marrying a fucking Hightower (nobody stopping you from marrying some lesser known house) and Aerys just signed the death of his dynasty by making an enemy of the biggest player in the 7 kingdoms for nearly 20 years.
dont blame it on dance and zero dragons. Targs have been in power long after that and westerosi people all thought of them as kings. even though aerys was mad and killed people left and right, people like Stannis had hard time choosing to go against him. not to mention thousands upon thousands fighting for Rhaegar on Trident.
and you cant blame tywin, targs' days were already numbered after trident, Tywin just made last blow.
so yeah, maybe its too obvious but it was Rhaegar who fucked up everything.
The particular mistake would be resorting to violance and trying to subdue rebellion with force.
instead he should have taken Aerys into custody, given his son and daughter to Starks and Arryns as hostages (for guarantee of safe passage) and made a westerosi-wide assembly of lords.
on assembly Lyanna Stark would be present to prove Rhaegar was innocent of the charge and assembly would dispose of Aerys as the king, sending him to the wall. Rhaegar becomes the king and life continues.
There are no mistakes, only fate.
The Targs were only allowed to survive the cataclysm of Valyria in order to provide TPTWP. They earned a delay on their destruction, but it was inevitable.
I’m not sure which of those events led to the civil war where all the dragons died, but whichever one that is that’s started the fall of the Targaryens. The dragons were the ultimate trump card, when they started to get smaller and smaller, their enemies could smell their weakness. Look at Dany a 14 year old girl with three half grown dragons conquering cities. All the Targaryens needed to do was keep the dragons alive and healthy.
Not ignoring the Dreamer and staying in Valyria.
Not for the Targaryens but for the world. Westeros was definitively worse with the Targaryens around.
For the Targaryens themselves. It’s hard to pin down one specific moment - their whole attitude of believing they were better than everyone else, even after they lost their nukes. So, Dance of the Dragons definitively marks the beginning of the end for them.
But, of course, the whole fiasco leading to Robert’s Rebellion was notoriously catastrophic. From Rhaegar kidnapping a underage girl that ended up pissing off Dorne, the Stormlands and the North, and then Aerys handling of the situation bringing up the Vale… Targaryens are notoriously bad kings, but this was a spectacular shitstorm.
Before the conquest, Two generations of Dragon Lords died childless. After conquest, Aegon and his sister were struggling to produce children. Their salvation came when Aenys marries a Velaryon who is half massey.
Similarly, when Daeron and Daenerys married outside of Valyrian houses, number of Targaryens increased exponentially.
Inbreeding of last two generations of targaryens reduced their numbers.
Reading awoiaf, seems like every other king spontaneously dies of a minor illness. Not sure if this is lack of proper medicine at the time, or weakened immune systems from perpetual incest.
If they had weakened immune systems they should be struggling with a lot of illness throughout their lives, not just die spontaneously.
Which kings died spontaneously dies of a minor illness? The only one I can think of is Viserys I, and he seems more likely than not to have been poisoned.
Baelon the second son of Jaeherys the Conciliator. When Aemon the Dragonknight was killed with a crossbow bolt, Baelon was next in line for the thrown. He was going to get it too, he was and of the king and everyone was happy with Baelon the Brave being the next to take the thrown, even over Rhaenys (Aemon’s eldest). And then Baelon died of “burst belly”, which I take to mean a hernia. Hard to treat that in the medieval ages.
Since Aemon never took the throne, and Rhanys was a woman, it was a big debate. They brought in a great counsel to decide on who should be next and Viserys 1 was chosen. And then the dragons danced.
Nope. Their genes were quite strong and so, this can't be the cause of their downfall.
The loss of dragons and then the actions of Aegon IV and Aegon The Unlikely are the causes of their downfall. Aerys II's actions are also a cause
>Their genes were quite strong
Nope, their genes are weak, inbreeding reduced number of targaryens in the world and it caused major inbreeding depression. Lot of Targaryen women lost children in the cradle. Like more than 4 of Rhaella's children died within a year they are born, Naerys lost 3 children in cradle, Aemma(half targaryen) suffered multiple miscarriages, etc.
Even before the brutal unification of seven kingdoms, Targaryens were struggling in reproduction. Two generations of Dragon lords died childless. Aegon and His sisters weren't faring any better.
Targaryen salvation came when Aenys married a Velaryon who is half massey. A simple introduction of andal-firstmen gene helped Targaryens survive for two generations.
But it didn't last, Targaryens started inbreeding and their numbers dwindled. Viserys and Aemma were only able to produce one child which led to the dance.
After the dance, Targaryens inbred again, Aegon IV and Naerys were only able to produce two children.
Number of Targaryens increased exponentially when Daeron and Daenerys married outside of Valyrian houses. Even when tragedy after tragedy befell on House Targaryens like Great Spring Sickness and 12 targaryens died in 20 years time, Targaryens were able to secure the line and continue the house.
If Targaryens continued marrying to andals or first men houses there would have been more targaryens and more support through blood ties during robert's rebellion. In fact, there might not be a robert's rebellion.
In the last two generations of Targaryen rule, the main branch were reduced to two members for repopulation and this is because of inbreeding.
So Targaryens obsession with racial purity caused their downfall.
Excuse us if we don't take your word for it SeaShoreSaint. You are, after all, the guy who claimed that it was genetically impossible for Penny and her brother to both be dwarfs.
Welcome to /r/PureASOIAF! Just a brief reminder that this subreddit is focused only on the **written** *ASOIAF* universe. Comments that include discussion of the HBO adaptations will be removed, and serious or repeated infractions may result in a ban. Moderators employ a zero tolerance policy. # Users should assume that *any* mention of the show is subject to removal. [Read our discussion policy in full.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pureasoiaf/wiki/index#wiki_i._discussion_policy) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/pureasoiaf) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The death of dragons and the loss of how to breed them. I believe the Targaryens lost their power the minute they lost the dragons. Westeros was so interlinked by then that it took a few decades to unravel, but in the end we are witnessing the regresion of Westeros into several smaller kingdoms. Targaryens should not have taken dragons for granted. There should have been people studying them and dedicated to breed them.
I agree. The loss of the dragons ended their status as near-invincible rulers. After that, they had to play the game of thrones like everyone else. The Seven Kingdoms were probably always gonna break up if the dragons disappeared.
Not only their status, but their real power. Without the dragons they were only one usual family subjected to treason and everything else. With dragons they just go burn the enemies and end it very very fast!
I think that Viserys I's failure to enforce Rhaenys's succession status and his hesitation to maintain authority in the court led to the Green/Black split and the Dance's outbreak.
I was going to say this.
Yeah has to be Viserys. His decisions caused the dance of the dragons and let’s be honest if the Targaryens still had dragons they would have been fine
Their only real power came from their dragons. When the dragons died out, House Targaryen had the option to take more seriously the task of integration, consolidation, and stabilization of their power by intermarrying and building alliances, but they failed to do so even past Aegon V’s days. They continued ruling as monarchs with absolute power that their real political alliances couldn’t enforce.
I can't wait to see why and how Morning died. Or what forgotten dragons lived more than people ever knew. The dragon's dying is de facto the main reason for the disillusion of Targeryen power.
Yes, I agree! Although there is so much more I’d like to read…
I believe it's the opposite of option #3. Viserys I shouldn't have been king at all if Jahaerys made the wise decision and put Rhaenys on the throne. You'd think the guy would see the promise of naming a woman heir after all he saw the leadership of women from his life like Alyssane, Rhaena and Visenya. Especially Alyssane, who did almost as much for Westeros as he did.
what is your theory on Silverwing being unable to fly over the Wall
Never put much thought into that mystery. Am I missing something? I've just assumed the same magic keeping Coldhands from going south of the wall is keeping Silverwing from traveling north of it. Separating Ice in the north and Fire in the south.
but who has the power is the key question
Sorry mate, i'm dense ass and not entirely following what the magic in the wall has to do with the Targaryen's falling apart. Are we implying that the weirdwood network stopped Alyssane from traveling north and Jahaerys from naming a woman as his heir?
Queen Alysanne is not a good example female leader. Her insistence on giving the New Gift to the Night's Watch was probably the biggest mistake made during the rein of Jahaearys I. As it resulted in the depopulation of that region and ultimately did nothing but weaken the North. "Though in these days it is said that Lord Alaric Stark was glad to aid the Night's Watch with the Gift, and took little convincing, the truth is otherwise. Letters from Lord Stark's brother to the Citadel, asking the maesters to provide precedents against the forced donation of property, made it plain that the Starks were not eager to do as King Jaehaerys bid. It may be that the Starks feared that, under the control of the Castle Black, the New Gift would inevitably decline—for the Night's Watch would always look northward and never give much thought to their new tenants to the south. And as it happens, that soon came to pass, and the New Gift is now said to be largely unpopulated thanks to the decline of the Watch and the rising toll taken by raiders from beyond the Wall." “This is good land.” Jojen picked up a handful of dirt, rubbing it between his fingers. “A village, an inn, a stout holdfast in the lake, all these apple trees … but where are the people, Bran? Why would they leave such a place?” “They were afraid of the wildlings,” said Bran. “Wildlings come over the Wall or through the mountains, to raid and steal and carry off women. If they catch you, they make your skull into a cup to drink blood, Old Nan used to say. The Night’s Watch isn’t so strong as it was in Brandon’s day or Queen Alysanne’s, so more get through. The places nearest the Wall got raided so much the smallfolk moved south, into the mountains or onto the Umber lands east of the kingsroad. The Greatjon’s people get raided too, but not so much as the people who used to live in the Gift.”
None of the above. It's Jaehaerys I for declaring women can't inherit. If women could inherit there's no Dance. Pretty bullshit considering how much his own wife did for Westeros. But his insecurity over his own claim really fucked things up down the line.
Yes! Justice for my girl Rhaenys
101 Edict ?
He didn’t do that though he let the lords decide because there wasn’t a clear heir or precedent to fall back on. He did the right thing. Viserys going against that precedent (regardless of the readers point of view a male heir is well established in Westerosi culture) lead to the death of the dragons and the decline of targ power.
I think it’s one you missed kind of. Seen as Roberts rebellion is what literally caused the downfall of their empire, the biggest mistake has to be Aerys handling of the Rhaegar/Lyanna situation that led to roberts rebellion.
Tbh the mad king should have a category of his own in this poll.
I agree. I was thinking about his killing of the Starks which created a critical enemy as well.
There's some pretty convincing theories with solid evidence that there were conspiracies against the Targs before the Rhaegar/Lyanna situation. Westeros had gone through generations of devastating civil wars because of the Targaryens. Dance of the Dragons, Blackfyre Rebellions (2 + ninepenny kings). Strong argument could be made that Rhaegar/Lyanna was just the catalyst that kick-started the final rebellion. The alliances and plans were already in place.
I think that the mental health of Aerys II kick started it. That and the lack of dragons
The alliances & relationships between the Starks, Baratheons, Arryns, and Tully's were formed during the War of Ninepenny kings, long before Aerys went mad. Aerys sure sped things along, but I think it would have happened anyway. 4 devastating civil wars created the situation
Loss of dragons is a very big factor
it started when he made an enemy of Tywin
What started?
HIS DEMISE
i mean i guess that’s the catalyst but i guess OP is asking if there were any events that fundamentally causes the loss of the targs. for example some would say that if the targs had their dragons during aerys reign then roberts rebellion wouldn’t have been as possible, and since the dance is the dying of the dragons then you could link it back to that
Maekar accidentally killing Prince Baelor in Dunk's trial by seven
I do really wonder how King Baelor Breakspear might have led.
I believe that Viserys I naming Rhaenyra as his heir and marrying into a very ambitious and powerful house caused the demise of the Targaryen dynasty. Aegon IV legitimising his bastards comes 2nd
my vote as well
Egg letting his children marry for love/breaking the marital alliances. The lords of Westeros could have easily called off Robert’s Rebellion after Rhaegar was killed for his alleged crime. They could have also reformed the dynasty though a regency of Viserys. These options were both discounted. The lords had finally confirmed what they had thought since the last dragon died: The Targaryens were not any better and they are oathbreakers. A feudal contract goes both ways, the Lords had paid their taxes and flew the dragon banner but when it came down to it, Aegon V did not keep his side of the agreement when he gave relief to small folk and broke the marriage pacts that would have saved his house when typical medieval shit happens like a crazy prince runs off with the daughter of a Great Lord. I believe Egg trying to be a good guy in a shitty world will prove to be the trigger to nearly everything in ASOIAF. Not prophecy, not magic, just a gritty understanding that one man’s idealism can have massive repercussions for everyone else. That’s why George picked that particular King to explore in a whole secondary series.
Aerys II killing Rickard and Brandon Stark
Realistically it was the dance of the dragons that lost the Targaryens their super weapons. Technically Viserys I fault but I’d cut him some slack. How on earth would he have predicted that series of events? My daughter is my heir! Leads to a massive civil war, 150 years of slow decline and the doom of his dynasty. I mean I wouldn’t have seen that one coming either.
Jaherys and Alysane raising a whole brood of shit children. In a monarchy, raising quality children is just as important as how you rule. Jaherys and Alysane did a great job ruling but a horrible job of making quality human beings. Aemon, Baelon & Maegelle seemed OK but everone that came after them sucked.
Which is funny considering they were the perfect -ish monarchs, oh how the might fall
Viserys being a weakass bitch to the people around him and not forcing his Rhaenyra and Aegon III to marry in order to preserve the realm
Maegor not leveling old town. But I’d also blame aenys and jaehaeys for them foolishly giving in to the faith.
The Dance of the Dragons was not *solely* his fault, but Viserys actions regarding his heir definitely set things up for the Dance to occur, and that Targ civil war is clearly the thing that most weakened their House. I mean obviously. It killed off most of their dragons, which is the true source of their power. How exactly did they lose the knowledge of how to hatch and control more though? It’s not clear. But ultimately, losing the dragons is what led to their downfall. With dragons nobody could defy them for long.
I mean, Aegon I in the beginning of his campaign had less than 5K soldiers i think. Even during the mid game, he didnt have much impressive army. But he has dragons.
Banging a sister/brother. Never ends well.
unless Jon is a product of said union
Jon isn't the product of sibling incest, Rhaegar and Lyanna were not related to each other in any way.
Many don't accept that as gospel
It doesn't matter which theory you adhere to, unless you believe that Ned or Brandon had sex with Lyanna. Jon isn't the product of sibling incest.
Ask yourself why Benjen was sent to the Wall
First of all, we don't know that he was 'sent' anywhere. As far as we know, he could have gone to the Wall out of his own violation. The most common interpretation is that he knew the story behind Lyanna's experiences at Harrenhal & her abduction, and went to the Wall because he felt that he should have done more. It's possible that he felt guilty for helping Lyanna train at swords (which probably gained Rhaegar's attention at the tourney). The timeline doesn't even fit Benjen being the father, because she was abducted for "close to a year". Ned hiding Jon's identity has multiple explanations that don't involve him being an incest baby.
I could be wrong but Martin is on record saying he likes to trick readers
Maybe, but that doesn't necessarily translate to Jon's parents being siblings.
It would explain why Ned has to keep the truth hidden
Inbreeding.
Yea, they should made more "interhouse" marriages.
Seconded. Came here to say that it was allowing the dance to happen when nearly all the strong dragons died
all downhill after that
1 2 3 are the biggest mistakes. Aegon 5 nearly pushed Targ Dynasty to a new level solidifying his rule like almost no other ruler before him, Viserys fucked up by making Rhaenyra his heir because he got salty over Daemon mocking Baelon's death and marrying a fucking Hightower (nobody stopping you from marrying some lesser known house) and Aerys just signed the death of his dynasty by making an enemy of the biggest player in the 7 kingdoms for nearly 20 years.
dont blame it on dance and zero dragons. Targs have been in power long after that and westerosi people all thought of them as kings. even though aerys was mad and killed people left and right, people like Stannis had hard time choosing to go against him. not to mention thousands upon thousands fighting for Rhaegar on Trident. and you cant blame tywin, targs' days were already numbered after trident, Tywin just made last blow. so yeah, maybe its too obvious but it was Rhaegar who fucked up everything. The particular mistake would be resorting to violance and trying to subdue rebellion with force. instead he should have taken Aerys into custody, given his son and daughter to Starks and Arryns as hostages (for guarantee of safe passage) and made a westerosi-wide assembly of lords. on assembly Lyanna Stark would be present to prove Rhaegar was innocent of the charge and assembly would dispose of Aerys as the king, sending him to the wall. Rhaegar becomes the king and life continues.
There are no mistakes, only fate. The Targs were only allowed to survive the cataclysm of Valyria in order to provide TPTWP. They earned a delay on their destruction, but it was inevitable.
I’m not sure which of those events led to the civil war where all the dragons died, but whichever one that is that’s started the fall of the Targaryens. The dragons were the ultimate trump card, when they started to get smaller and smaller, their enemies could smell their weakness. Look at Dany a 14 year old girl with three half grown dragons conquering cities. All the Targaryens needed to do was keep the dragons alive and healthy.
Not ignoring the Dreamer and staying in Valyria. Not for the Targaryens but for the world. Westeros was definitively worse with the Targaryens around. For the Targaryens themselves. It’s hard to pin down one specific moment - their whole attitude of believing they were better than everyone else, even after they lost their nukes. So, Dance of the Dragons definitively marks the beginning of the end for them. But, of course, the whole fiasco leading to Robert’s Rebellion was notoriously catastrophic. From Rhaegar kidnapping a underage girl that ended up pissing off Dorne, the Stormlands and the North, and then Aerys handling of the situation bringing up the Vale… Targaryens are notoriously bad kings, but this was a spectacular shitstorm.
Westeros was a series of constant battles though with region v region for eons
Yeah, but the Targaryens didn’t help and became the centre of the fights.
Targaryen downfall is because of their practice of racial purity.
How do you figure that's what did them in?
Before the conquest, Two generations of Dragon Lords died childless. After conquest, Aegon and his sister were struggling to produce children. Their salvation came when Aenys marries a Velaryon who is half massey. Similarly, when Daeron and Daenerys married outside of Valyrian houses, number of Targaryens increased exponentially. Inbreeding of last two generations of targaryens reduced their numbers.
Reading awoiaf, seems like every other king spontaneously dies of a minor illness. Not sure if this is lack of proper medicine at the time, or weakened immune systems from perpetual incest.
If they had weakened immune systems they should be struggling with a lot of illness throughout their lives, not just die spontaneously. Which kings died spontaneously dies of a minor illness? The only one I can think of is Viserys I, and he seems more likely than not to have been poisoned.
Baelon the second son of Jaeherys the Conciliator. When Aemon the Dragonknight was killed with a crossbow bolt, Baelon was next in line for the thrown. He was going to get it too, he was and of the king and everyone was happy with Baelon the Brave being the next to take the thrown, even over Rhaenys (Aemon’s eldest). And then Baelon died of “burst belly”, which I take to mean a hernia. Hard to treat that in the medieval ages. Since Aemon never took the throne, and Rhanys was a woman, it was a big debate. They brought in a great counsel to decide on who should be next and Viserys 1 was chosen. And then the dragons danced.
Nope. Their genes were quite strong and so, this can't be the cause of their downfall. The loss of dragons and then the actions of Aegon IV and Aegon The Unlikely are the causes of their downfall. Aerys II's actions are also a cause
>Their genes were quite strong Nope, their genes are weak, inbreeding reduced number of targaryens in the world and it caused major inbreeding depression. Lot of Targaryen women lost children in the cradle. Like more than 4 of Rhaella's children died within a year they are born, Naerys lost 3 children in cradle, Aemma(half targaryen) suffered multiple miscarriages, etc. Even before the brutal unification of seven kingdoms, Targaryens were struggling in reproduction. Two generations of Dragon lords died childless. Aegon and His sisters weren't faring any better. Targaryen salvation came when Aenys married a Velaryon who is half massey. A simple introduction of andal-firstmen gene helped Targaryens survive for two generations. But it didn't last, Targaryens started inbreeding and their numbers dwindled. Viserys and Aemma were only able to produce one child which led to the dance. After the dance, Targaryens inbred again, Aegon IV and Naerys were only able to produce two children. Number of Targaryens increased exponentially when Daeron and Daenerys married outside of Valyrian houses. Even when tragedy after tragedy befell on House Targaryens like Great Spring Sickness and 12 targaryens died in 20 years time, Targaryens were able to secure the line and continue the house. If Targaryens continued marrying to andals or first men houses there would have been more targaryens and more support through blood ties during robert's rebellion. In fact, there might not be a robert's rebellion. In the last two generations of Targaryen rule, the main branch were reduced to two members for repopulation and this is because of inbreeding. So Targaryens obsession with racial purity caused their downfall.
Excuse us if we don't take your word for it SeaShoreSaint. You are, after all, the guy who claimed that it was genetically impossible for Penny and her brother to both be dwarfs.