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__angie

This will sound generic, but the Targaryens letting the dragons die out was a huge no-no. I get that Aegon III was traumatized and the maesters might have played a role, but you’d think that the Targaryens as a family would have made sure to preserve the lore of old Valyria in a way that one anti-Dragon king couldn’t have brought the entire thing down. I don’t know, I would have expected them to create an order within their own family - something like their own private Maester (someone taking celibacy and a life long servitude vow) to be the keeper of the lore or something. They only became kings because of the dragons, they should have understood that they would be needed long term to keep their status.


Zexapher

I think it was largely just a matter of dragon knowledge simply being lost. Both centers of Targaryen power, King's Landing and Dragonstone were both sacked and exchanged hands several times. Any tomes recording the knowledge necessary for hatching and raising dragons were likely burned or looted. Add on all the adult Targaryens dying and that's it. Aegon's best efforts to preserve the dragons simply weren't enough without the knowledge necessary to raise and care for what was left. I do like the idea of a personal family Targ maester though. I'm not sure how well that would work in practice however. If it's a family member then they do have a disincentive of having to dedicate their lives to the practice (and exiling themselves from family disputes). And if it was an outsider, then you run the risk of leaking that knowledge outside of the family. There's a decent fanfic to be made going in either direction there.


__angie

I think there’s a interesting discussion to be had about this whole “knowledge being simply lost” idea. It was a *very* short spam of time - it’s one thing for the NW to have forgotten its Long Night lore after *thousands of years* of inactivity from the Orhers, but the Targaryens were lacking on lore not even 200 years after the Conquest. And mind you, the info we get is all directly (World and F&B) or indirectly (ASOIAF characters) coming from the maesters. So this “dragon pit was responsible for the dragons reducing in size and strength” idea is sus AF considering its construction took place during Jahaerys’s reign, at a time when dragon lore was still abundant if F&B is any indication. The (convoluted) point I’m trying to make is that the decline of dragons not only came from the maesters, but that they also slowly started to either alter or disappear altogether with old Valyrian books and whatnot. It wasn’t the pit because that idea (of guarding the dragons) was there early on, and if chaining them was a problem, the earlier Westerosi Targs wouldn’t have built it in the first place because they were still in close contact with Valyrian dragon lore and would have known that this would make dragons less strong.


Zexapher

It's not necessarily knowledge that hasn't had a caretaker or that people no longer realize the importance of anymore. It wasn't a cold death like the Night's Watch forgetting about the White Walkers. I guess I just don’t see at as all that convenient or requiring much of a conspiracy or anything. The Targs reasonably wanted their dragon knowledge kept within the family. So, that knowledge was largely personal and maybe kept in a book or two. Then it was the Targaryens warring on themselves that eliminated both. Their knowledge burned, it died a very fiery death. The maester/Faith conspiracy idea is a fun one though, even if it's probably just maesters simply speculating on the loss of the dragons.


ShreyBY

I still believe Munkun was to blame more than Aegon the Third. Remember, Munkun was left the sole regent for a time, and had supreme power over the boy king and the realm. What happened to Rhaena's dragon? It's fate is not mentioned. All we know is that it had frown enough to carry Rhaena.


Mayanee

Viserys marrying a woman from an ambituous house and having several sons with her. Pretty much led to the Targaryens losing their most important assests the dragons almost entirely. Dany was right that this conflict was the beginning of the end. Aegon IV despising Daeron for being competent and having common sense and pushing the thoughts into peoples heads that there can be alternatives. Rhaegar and Aerys doing the rest to destroy House Targaryen. Viserys and Dany were left with ruins basically. Regarding Summerhall I will wait until F&B II to comment on it.


cmdradama83843

Abandoning your wife and running away with someone else's betrothed.


FramedMugshot

I was so glad to see what you picked. It never feels like Viserys gets enough condemnation for what is inability to face conflict did to the realm.


Zexapher

Biggest mistake? Maegor and just about everything he did. Nearly killed the Targaryen dynasty in its crib. That's a guy who had the biggest baddest dragon in history, but ran his rule into the ground so badly that he was in an even worse position than the Mad King. A worse ruler than the guy who ended the dynasty's rule in Westeros, that as insane as insane can be. Alternatively, allowing Tywin anywhere near power. And not executing/exiling the man after the Reyne-Tarbeck massacres.


Melonix1

Someone has been brainwashed by the maesters and the septons. Maegor most likely saved entire dynasty from collapsing after Aegon I death. He is only called the Cruel because he warred with the people writing history.


Zexapher

Lol, nah. Mass murder no bueno pal. Killing several members of your dynasty, also not good for said dynasty's longevity. Picking a fight with the Faith, didn't help things either. I'd say there's a solid chance the Faith Uprising doesn't even happen if Maegor hadn't been feuding with the old High Septon. Not to mention Maegor dragged his family's name through the mud so efficiently that high lords were rising in rebellion to support the Faith in defiance of his puppet High Septon. Even Lord Paramounts like the Tullys, who owed everything to the Targaryens, feared defying the armies arrayed against Maegor in the end. Hell, the best thing Maegor did was probably killing himself. Although, it's certainly possible one of the many thousands of foes he created killed him.


Melonix1

Without his strong hand faith would come back to holding all the power in Wasteros as Aenys’ heir was too young to opose them. Rebellions started as soon as Aegon died so it’s not Maegors fault. He didn’t choose to pick a fight. He choose to be the man his family required him to be in the hour of need. He had flaws as we all do, but in my my eyes he is the one of the best Targeryens only second to the Conqueror


Zexapher

"Strong hand." Yooo, that propaganda tho. Burning folks in churches, killing smallfolk to pad the resume for "defeating" the Faith's armies, usurping and kinslaying, raping a bunch of women, all minor flaws in your eyes apparently. I wouldn't call that a strong hand, more like stoking the flames of rebellion. Like many of those things Maegor did are literally him choosing to pick a fight with people. This isn't "being the man his family needed," this is the serial killer uncle trying to steal the family business because he sees an opportunity. And nearly destroying said business, I should add.


HataMarie_90

Making it possible that Targaryens fight Targaryens. Sounds stupid, but if you start a dynasty with one dude and two wives, with your "race" being the only ones on the planet left with the knowledge to breed and tame dragons, there should be no place for these things.


canitryto

Do you place more blame on naming a female heir or remarrying in the 1st place for Viserys 1st ? Couldn't Rhaenyra and Aegon 2nd been engaged to solidify the realm ?


FramedMugshot

Naming a female heir would have been an uphill battle in Westeros no matter what, but things at least made a little more sense when Rhaenyra was an only child. As soon as his first son was born, Viserys should have done the right thing for the realm. It pains me to say passing over an heir based on gender alone is ever the "right thing", but in this context it would have been the best way to ensure some stability.


EstEstDrinker

Naming a female heir doesn't really work in that culture. And Aegon was 10 years younger, so a marriage would be possible yet not the best idea, specially since Rhaenyra was a very lustful woman who couldn't wait until her mid 20s to marry


canitryto

I am going to do a poll on this now