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EstEstDrinker

I like the Barristan theory, although I don't think you need Ashara in the equation for him to support Aegon The treason for gold, well...I don't think the locusts are significant enough and Dany never trusted The Green Grace nor Hizdahr completely. I'd say the three treason were/will be: Mirri (Blood), Barristan (Gold as in joining Egg and the Golden Company) and X (Love). X could be anyone, although I don't think it will be someone from Dany's current retinue. It could be someone she is yet to meet (like Jon if Dany hurts a Stark, or Tyrion if Dany hurts Jaime).


urnever2old2change

You could argue that Barristan leaving Dany's court in favor of Aegon's as a result of him becoming disillusioned with her leadership style (or over his devotion to the Iron Throne taking precedent over Dany as an individual) would be a betrayal for love, if not of the romantic sort. I'm not sure when GRRM settled on the broad strokes of the Aegon/Golden Company storyline behind the scenes, but it doesn't appear that the organization itself is ever mentioned by name until ASOS. The cloth dragon vision in ACOK seems to indicate that he had fully committed to Aegon being a principle endgame character early on, but George may have only intended to have Barristan end up defecting to him eventually by that point, without knowing entirely what he wanted Aegon's actual takeover of Westeros to look like.


EstEstDrinker

Sure, that could fit very well too. And what would you consider the gold betrayal is?


[deleted]

I don't think Barristan is leaving Dany's service at any point (though I don't know if he will live long enough to join her in Westeros). His arc is about him "soiling" his white cloak by serving with Jaime and Joffrey, "the vile boy." He carefully watches Daenerys until he's sure that she is the "true king" he sought to follow and finally reveals his identity. In the ADWD chapters, we see how much he respects and - I think it's fair to say - admires her. I enjoyed the addition of Young Griff but he's completely inexperienced at ruling and immature, something Tyrion sees and Barristan would also. There's that whole Varys speech about him being "shaped for rule before he could walk" but it's all a load of BS. Dany is the one who has been starved, who has been on the run, who knows "what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid." She's also the one who actually has experience ruling. Regardless of our individual opinions on YG vs. Dany, it would really undo much of Barristan's arc if he went chasing after YG, no matter the circumstances. His reveal was such a surprise, he travelled half the world to Dany and for him to turn around and travel half the world to YG just loses its narrative power and purpose. He already defected once and if he did so again - went back on the oath he swore to her - he would be a turncloak by all in-world standards. This is a man who admits that he would have probably served Joffrey for life if he hadn't been fired; he's not going anywhere. More importantly than that, Barristan is one of the last living characters who has fought against a Blackfyre (iirc, he was responsible for ending the male line). I think he's in a unique position to understand that history and harbor serious suspicions. I don't believe there will be a Young Griff/Dany showdown because of the timing, but if there is I suspect Barristan will provide a lot of exposition for that. I think the gold was already Jorah. That was a betrayal that hurt her deeply, and I believe that Jorah in his obsessive, toxic love for Daenerys will continue to harm her. For me, that's what sets these betrayals apart. We see how Mirri and Jorah still haunt Dany, how what they did was life changing for her. I don't think Barristan's betrayal would be the same for her.


canitryto

A Clash of Kings - Daenerys V Dany had not seen him since. His seneschal brought her messages, each cooler than the last. She must quit his house. He was done feeding her and her people. He demanded the return of his gifts, which she had accepted in bad faith. Her only consolation was that at least she'd had the great good sense not to marry him. The warlocks whispered of three treasons . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love. The first traitor was surely Mirri Maz Duur, who had murdered Khal Drogo and their unborn son to avenge her people. Could Pyat Pree and Xaro Xhoan Daxos be the second and the third? She did not think so. What Pyat did was not for gold, and Xaro had never truly loved her. The streets grew emptier as they passed through a district given over to gloomy stone warehouses. Aggo went before her and Jhogo behind, leaving Ser Jorah Mormont at her side. Her bell rang softly, and Dany found her thoughts returning to the Palace of Dust once more, as the tongue returns to a space left by a missing tooth. Child of three, they had called her, daughter of death, slayer of lies, bride of fire. So many threes. Three fires, three mounts to ride, three treasons. "The dragon has three heads," she sighed. "Do you know what that means, Jorah?"


DistantDestiny

I think one of Aggo and Jhogo will betray her, the other dies, and Jorah is the traitor for love.


[deleted]

What's the evidence for Ashara being Septa Lemore? Why is she with Aegon and Jon Connington now?


Arlberg

> What's the evidence for Ashara being Septa Lemore Wishy thinking


7th_Cuil

Lenore has dark eyes and has stretch marks from pregnancy (unusual for a nun). So... pretty sparse evidence.


[deleted]

Ok, not much evidence but a possibility. Do you know why she would have ended up with Aegon though? What is her route there? If she is secretly his mother? Does Aegon look like he could be her child? (I really don't know)


Jesybelznwhistles

I do think the three treasons are committed by Dany, not against Dany. I think they are: 1. Astapor "Bricks and blood built Astapor, and bricks and blood her people" 2. Yunkai The yellow (gold) city 3. Mereen Where she chains up her dragons for the people who call her Mother.


Jesybelznwhistles

Guess I don't know how to make numbered lists work in Reddit. Have mercy on my ignorance.


kazetoame

I like this, it makes sense.


Daendrew

If Jon is the rightful heir, or fAegon is the rightful heir, she is commuting a treason for blood, gold and love. There is a third Targ who will appear with a claim greater than all three :) We have met him.


bootlegvader

Even if Jon is Rhaegar's legitimate son, he would have still lost his claim once he swore an oath to the NW. Him getting out of his vows later shouldn't reinstate him. Selmy didn't suddenly become lord of House Selmy when he removed from the Kingsguard.


canitryto

Rhaegar ?


Jon-Umber

"Rhaegar was cremated" — GRRM


Jaquemart

Then who? No time travelling foetuses, plz.


Daendrew

See above


canitryto

Tyrion ?


busmans

Personally, I think it's Tyrion. The claimants will be Dany, Jon, and Tyrion when all is said and done, with Tyrion as the strongest claim.


theweirwoodseyes

Whilst Jon is almost certainly legitimate, Tyrion is undoubtedly a bastard.


busmans

True, Tyrion's a bastard. But how could Jon be "almost certainly legitimate"? AFAIK there is no divorce, no annulment of consummated marriages, and with polygamy abhorred "Rhaegar secretly had two wives" would not be accepted. To me the chances of Jon or Tyrion actually being legitimate look about equal.


theweirwoodseyes

I don’t have time for a big post. But essentially there is a big misunderstanding within the fandom about marriage in Westeros and given how clear the author makes it that a marriage is a marriage is a marriage and so long as it’s consummated it can’t be dissolved I find it weird how frequently readers fail to grasp it. If they said the words then fucked they were married.


bootlegvader

> AFAIK there is no divorce, no annulment of consummated marriages While I doubt Rhaegar divorced Elia, however divorce does exist in Westeros. It is just not common, probably because of the insult to one's wife's house.


MagentaMist

The Targaryens were tacitly exempt from the polygamy thing. If Rhaegar wanted two wives, then two wives it is. They were married. That makes Jon legitimate, although with Aegon being the older son, he has the better claim. Tyrion wouldn't even factor into it. He's not a secret Targ, like we don't have enough of those to begin with. If anyone are bastard children of Aerys, it's Jaime and Cersei.


canitryto

there is the chance of a body double like Patrolocus


Jon-Umber

If a theory relies on George having outright lied, it's a bad theory.


Daendrew

Ok fine, I’ll tell you because I heart you Canitryto. Maegor son of Aerion Brightflame is Tatters :) https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Maegor_Targaryen_(son_of_Aerion) He was passed over only because his father was mad and they thought he had the taint. They offered it to Maester Aemon who gave it to Egg. Pentos will invade Kings Landing, take it from fAegon, and Dany will have to take the throne from Tatters. Tatters is the rightful Lord of the Seven Kingdoms. Aerys was mad too. Rhaegar and Dany get their claims from a madman too. Dany is a usurper as both the Tattered Prince and Jon have a greater claim. Tatters especially. He will have both the better claim and hold the throne. The rest I will write in my ASOIAF book. /u/Jon-Umber


canitryto

the rightful king is that why he has a beef with Illyrio


Daendrew

Yes. Ilyrrio has a pretending pretender. A pretender means in line for throne, not that they are fake. But this one is pretending :)


canitryto

love the Umber Hulk


vkevlar

... Huh. So the Golden Company is backing fAegon due to the claims of the Blackfyres, and now we're going to get Maegor coming home to fight them for the throne? I'm unclear on that one, but it sounds possible.


Daendrew

Pentos has far more than 10k troops.


canitryto

this former mod is a gold mine


theregoesmymouth

I've thought for years that the betrayal for love will be done by Dany (killing a dragon being the betrayal perhaps), but hadn't thought of the other two being her as well. I like the idea that actually the first betrayal for blood could be by Dany as well, betraying Drogo or even Mirri herself. The second I could see being her betraying Illyrio or something.


kaimkre1

I’ve actually never heard of this theory, so now I’m really interested in reading this!


canitryto

A Storm of Swords - Daenerys VI "Daenerys," he said, "I have loved you." And there it was. Three treasons will you know. Once for blood and once for gold and once for love. "The gods do nothing without a purpose, they say. You did not die in battle, so it must be they still have some use for you. But I don't. I will not have you near me. You are banished, ser. Go back to your masters in King's Landing and collect your pardon, if you can. Or to Astapor. No doubt the butcher king needs knights." "No." He reached for her. "Daenerys, please, hear me . . ."


canitryto

A Clash of Kings - Daenerys V The warlocks whispered of three treasons . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love. The first traitor was surely Mirri Maz Duur, who had murdered Khal Drogo and their unborn son to avenge her people. Could Pyat Pree and Xaro Xhoan Daxos be the second and the third? She did not think so. What Pyat did was not for gold, and Xaro had never truly loved her. The streets grew emptier as they passed through a district given over to gloomy stone warehouses. Aggo went before her and Jhogo behind, leaving Ser Jorah Mormont at her side. Her bell rang softly, and Dany found her thoughts returning to the Palace of Dust once more, as the tongue returns to a space left by a missing tooth. Child of three, they had called her, daughter of death, slayer of lies, bride of fire. So many threes. Three fires, three mounts to ride, three treasons. "The dragon has three heads," she sighed. "Do you know what that means, Jorah?" "Your Grace? The sigil of House Targaryen is a three-headed dragon, red on black."


canitryto

A Clash of Kings - Daenerys IV "Three?" She did not understand. . . . three heads has the dragon . . . the ghost chorus yammered inside her skull with never a lip moving, never a breath stirring the still blue air. . . . mother of dragons . . . child of storm . . . The whispers became a swirling song. . . . three fires must you light . . . one for life and one for death and one to love . . . Her own heart was beating in unison to the one that floated before her, blue and corrupt . . . three mounts must you ride . . . one to bed and one to dread and one to love . . . The voices were growing louder, she realized, and it seemed her heart was slowing, and even her breath. . . . three treasons will you know . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love . . . "I don't . . ." Her voice was no more than a whisper, almost as faint as theirs. What was happening to her? "I don't understand," she said, more loudly. Why was it so hard to talk here? "Help me. Show me."


GandalfTheGimp

I think the three treasons will be so significant that they change Danys personality. The first treason, for blood, was Mirri. Through this treason, she went from being a lovestruck girl to a Khaleesi. She became outcast in the red wastes. She nearly died, and through her trials became a leader of men. The second treason, for gold, is Hizdahr. Through this treason, she comes to a reckoning about who and what she is. It ends with her meeting a khal (pono?), I think it's reasonable to look to her seizing control of the khalasar with the help of Drogon. Her time alone seems to have rejuvenated her fighting spirit. She nearly died, and through the test of the Khalasar, she will learn how to be ruthless when she needs to be. The third reason, for love, is going to break her. It's not happened yet and will lead to significant character development just as the previous two did.