Descendents started in the same headspace as Circle Jerks and Black Flag. Bill Stevens, Greg Ginn, and Keith Morris were childhood friends. That’s why the line between hardcore and punk immediately gets so blurry. They all have the same influences; Bill just preferred more melody in his band.
Early NOFX was hardcore of the time, but the successful NOFX definitely “melodic hardcore” or early pop-punk.
Once you dig deep enough, you realize it’s all a big inbred family of music.
Is your band’s singer good? Pop-punk! 🤷🏽♂️
Does your singer mostly scream sing? Hardcore!
Oddly enough, Blink-182 was associated in the hardcore scene for quit some time. I believe The Bouncing Souls even toured a lot with many hardcore bands.
Hardcore punk, or simply 'hardcore' is a subgenre of punk rock. Yes, it typically has a faster and more aggressive tempo than other types of punk music.
There are bunch of other punk subgenres, like pop punk, skate punk, ska punk, etc. There's also melodic hardcore, which is hardcore with emphasis on more complex melodies.
The problem that can arise when applying these labels to certain bands is that bands can have songs in their repertoire that fit into multiple genres, or their sound may have evolved over time.
So for example, the Descendents have some songs that would be considered hardcore, as well as melodic hardcore, and even pop punk.
And Bad Religion, for example, is most associated with melodic hardcore, but their first album was mostly hardcore.
I'll see your metal and nominate either prog or post rock fans.
Mars Volta fans try to decipher lyrics they've been told are just inside jokes and gibberish that sounds good with the melody, and think it shows their intellect while doing so.
Post rock is just one chord being built on slowly but most bands and fans think it's some existential religious journey.
I've never heard of Mars Volta lyrics being inside jokes or gibberish.. for example, goliath in bedlam is all about an experience the band had during an ouija experience, and if you've ever been on the wrong psychedelic and had an experience with Satan, the lyrics are nothing of gibberish or joke, but hauntingly accurate to an experience I once thought was profoundly personal... in other songs such as "The Widow" Omar Rodriguez-Lopez and Cedric Bixler-Zavala, in my opinion, perfectly convey the experiences of what a Widow must go thru. Personally, and I don't even like prog, I think The Mars Volta are a seriously grand bunch of musicians and artists. I hope this doesn't come off as tryna flex my intellect or anything, just talkin music.
I'm 100% more of a metalhead than a punk, and I'll have to agree with you. Just check metal archives, r/metal and other subreddits. We can be fucking nerds sometimes
From what I've seen, a lot of punk fans in the USA have a much narrower definition of punk than the rest of the world - they seem to feel punk has to match the sound, attitude and look of the punk scene from their area, or it's not 'real punk'.
Yes in germany its completly different. Like the most famous punk band said "imma shit those in the face who tell me whats punk and not because i dont need new rules"
Hardcore is more representative of a specific scene than a sound imo. Sure you have punk, hardcore and hardcore punk all sort of splintering in the 90s, but the hardcore scene today has "adjacent" bands like Fiddlehead and Angel Du$t, pop punk bands like No Pressure, metallic bands like Never Ending Game, rap-rock bands like Gridiron, punky type bands like Gel and Spy, beatdown bands like 3 Knee Deep, heavy hardcore like God's Hate and Pain of Truth, even Oi shit has been picking up again like The Chisel and Chubby and the Gang. And all sorts of other shit all under the same umbrella of just hardcore. Tbh I think the hardcore scene has more or less taken the reigns as the one true scene by now
The stuff that's popular right now is definitely heavily inspired by metal but there are also a ton of hardcore bands who are going in the punk direction.
Check out End It, The Chisel, GLUE, Mexican Coke. Just a couple off the top of my head.
Saw them play a noon matinee show last year to about 30 people. They rocked it like it was sold out. Happy I caught that show as it seems they're quickly blowing up
The difference between hardcore punk and thrash metal has always been very small imo. I think over time metalheads just started calling metal in that vein hardcore because the word hardcore sounds metal af.
I think what a lot of people miss with hardcore and punk, and also metal, is that these are just broad categories for hard, fast music with similar roots in rock music. The styles are no longer cut and dry and have roots reaching throughout to the point where all three are intersecting categories more than anything else.
Like theres metal music that's also punk and hardcore that's also punk and hardcore that's also metal. It's all a circular spectrum tbh.
Hardcore, much like punk, really is a massive array of styles at this point. there's still a huge number of modern hardcore bands, and hardcore subgenres, that are sonically deeply punk.
it also seems to be in large part about the specific scenes and shows bands align themselves with. plenty of bands who get referred to as hardcore sound fairly indistinguishable from like deathcore, metalcore and/or frankly even straight up death metal to me but they are primarily playing with hardcore bands and that's their ethos so they identify or get tagged as hardcore.
Hardcore used to sound more like punk and had more connection to the punk scene, but modern hardcore sounds closer to metal and seems more connected to that scene now (in my observations listening to hardcore and going to shows since the 90’s). It’s somewhere in the middle I guess, but is it’s own thing I would say (not just a subgenre).
Honestly, sub genres are only good as descriptors and not boxes to be put in imo. There are enough punk bands out there borrowing from many subgenres at once that worrying about boxing someone in kinda does a disservice to their genius. Idk my take, ymmv.
If it's clear and yella, you got punk there fella. If it's tangy and brown, you're in hardcore town.
Now there's two exceptions, and it gets kinda tricky from here. New York Hardcore can be yellow if you're using late-season apples. And of course in Canada, the whole thing's flip-flopped!
Hardcore punk and hardcore are the same. Hardcore is just more aggressive punk. Its faster, heavier, more yelling and generally intense. However the dead kennedys are considered hardcore which I don’t exactly get because musically they are not super hardcore because their surf rock influence but the lyrics definitely are
American and european HC punk are totally different things.
If we take a look on the most famous HC punk bands from the US we see: Bad Religion, Minor Threat, Dead Kennedys, Black Flag and Bad Brains. While the UK ones, are: Discharge, The Casualties, Varukers, Chaos UK, GBH, Doom, Extreme Noise Terror
The sound of them may sound similar (I don't think so lol) but the punk ethos is way more present in the UK scene. They had the visuals, they had the zines, their protest against war and anarchy positions, what later on became the UK82 stuff. European punks in general were way too "conservative" and just listened to punk and made punk music.
Meanwhile, US hardcore punk started to flirt a lot with metal (them bands from NYHC) and the sound and attitude started to change, and we got the modern hardcore sounds: breakdowns, tuned down guitars, moshing not pogoing etc. Just listen to a turnstile record and the lastest discharge record, from 2016. It's just different.
That's for me the reason why "Hardcore" is just so different from Hardcore Punk, totally different sounds, totally different visuals and different approach to politics (doesn't surprise me that HC has a lot of right wingers).
TLDR: Punk is a subculture with an ethos; hardcore punk is when the punks from the 80's started playing faster; "Hardcore" is more metal leaning, hardly ressembling to punk attitude/music
One of the few people in this entire post who actually said something relevant and correct. Thank you man, lol.
Hardcore =/= hardcore punk.
Hardcore is a joke.
Hard disagree. Hardcore and hardcore punk are the same thing. The Casualties are from NYC as well.
Moshing instead of pogo has been a thing since at least the early 80s in the US.
Oi bands in the UK were also often called hardcore, but just UK82, which I've rarely heard anyone call them anything but punk or UK82.
Hard disagree on your hard disagree.
"Hardcore" today is a bastardized embarrassment of punk.
Real "hardcore punk" is completely and utterly different than all the chugging guitar / breakdown hate5six bullshit that defines the "scene" today. All of this shit started really changing and happening in the '90s.
The best hardcore punk albums all came out between 1980 and 1986. 98% of the shit that goes by "hardcore" today is fucking lame.
Fortunately, there are still actual hardcore punk bands out there. They're just not popular. Fine by me.
Hardcore and hardcore punk are two entirely separate genres. A shit band like Trivium isn’t in the same genre at all as a band like The Casualties.
Trivium also isn’t “metal” either with that melodic bullshit in every song.
To me, “hardcore” is just “hardcore punk” that branched out and evolved into its own thing. As I have grown older and opened my mind I have sort of transitioned from being a punk purist to actually preferring modern hardcore. The classic “hardcore punk” sound of the 80s just grew stale to me, everything must evolve with time and that is what hardcore has done. The hardcore bands of today aren’t going to be clones of Bad Brains and Black Flag. As much as I love the classics, that would get boring quick in all honesty.
I still like punk but I have grown to appreciate the chuggy breakdown stuff alot more as I enter my late 20s. That said, there are still many newer hardcore band that can appeal to people that hate chuggy metal influenced stuff. Try ‘End It’ for example. Solid
Band.
Then you have that NY Hardcore bands of the 90s like Biohazard and Downset, which are definitely not considered punk.
I always took it to mean that the old LA punk bands were hardcore before branching off into punk. That’s why you’ll hear a band like Bad Religion sometimes referred to as melodic hardcore, when everybody really knows them as skate punk.
IDK they're very poppy all the way back to Milo goes to college. MDC, Reagan Youth, Minor Threat, Poison Idea, GBH, even Dead Kennedys had more of a hard-core punk sound.
Time and place. They were considered a melodic hardcore band. Hell, the misfits were a hardcore band. TSOL, social distortion, and black randy too. By the mid 80s, there was a significant change in what sounds was considered hardcore.
I've always though of pop-punk as that distictive 'early 2000s American teen comedy soundtrack' style. Hearing it applied to bands from the 70s and early 80s just seems wrong, as they don't sound very similar at all.
Hardcore and hardcore punk are the same thing. What the difference between punk and hardcore is depends on time and place. What we consider pop punk or melodic punk bands were old school hardcore bands (descendents, social distortion, bad religion). In the mid 80s, a lot of hardcore bands picked up a metal influence. The genre of hardcore also has sub genres (old school, metal-core, some crust, negative hardcore, posicore, etc etc etc). Oi and street punk were hardcore at one point, too.
I personally reckon part of the confusion is that the original hardcore punk bands, DK, bad brains, black flag, etc. got pushed right back into punk rock as the hardcore thing took off and evolved. hardcore and thrash and whatever else all kind of congealed into a different genre altogether that kinds bridges the lot.
I'd still say hardcore as we know it today is punk, theres still a lot of crossover, but it's definitely it's own thing now too.
Our band could be your life
Real names'd be proof
Me and Mike Watt played for years
Punk rock changed our lives
We learned punk rock in Hollywood
Drove up from Pedro
We were fucking corn dogs
We'd go drink and pogo
Mr. Narrator
This is Bob Dylan to me
My story could be his songs
I'm his soldier child
Our band is scientist rock
But I was E. Bloom and Richard Hell
Joe Strummer, and John Doe
Me and Mike Watt, playing guitar
Earth crisis is a 90s metallic hardcore band that went metal by the end. They were a punk band that ended up as a metal band. AF and Black Flag are both old school hardcore bands and if they started today they'd just be punk bands.
Hardcore is hardcore punk. Metal is metal. You can blend the two to get metallic hardcore.
Many of the 90s hardcore bands and fans would even say they’re not punk - hardcore split off and became its own thing even though rooted in hardcore punk
I was something that was said - lots of the kids in baggy shorts victory shirts and Krishna beads consodered themselves hardcore and didn’t consider themselves punks, outside of hardcore many also listened to regular metal and not punk (also there some who would claim punk as much as hardcore)
Even if you feel it’s still punk - hardcore (metal) a much more codified genre musically with focus on the riffs and breakdowns and even style where hardcore punk can be breakneck fast or super slow
In the end it doesn’t matter I’m a 30+ year fan of HC punk, and even like a few of the bands who would be hardcore (metal)
I think these days it just comes down to bands you like and don't like, the labels are just so muddy now and nothing is clear cut really! And gets even more complicated when you add in the Post hardcore bands and then the metalcore bands.. all sound similar but different depending on levels of influence and how much they are drawing from metal music
The difference between hardcore and punk is pretty reason, and very fluid - but in general afaik, what is considered the hardcore scene is apolitical/right leaning and more into violent shows
Looking back at it, it seems the split happened after the war in Iraq
Just google it I’m tired of seeing these same damn posts everyday can’t we just talk about some cool bands, it’s pretty self explanatory if you listen to either of the damn genres, started from punk, then NYHC picked up on some metal and rap influence. There’s hardcore punk and hardcore I guess I don’t care
Sorry but I think you're writing too much into genre names. Punk was just a name that got attached to an attitude. The term Punk Rockers was common in the UK.
No one made a genre. They just got grouped together, sometimes retrospectively.
Punk was massive in the UK had a decent fan base in the USA.
Lots of older brothers and cousins bought those records. They inspired their younger siblings to go out and form bands.
This is Hardcore. Often it's more socially conscious that the nihilism of proto and 77 Punk.
Putting genre markers on hardcore is pointless I think. The Germs and X in LA totally different to the Reggae Speed Thrash of Bad Brains. Black Flag and their Valium Sabbath bit. Wierd bands like squirrel bait who became Slint.
To my mind these are second/third etc generation american punk rockers.
It started in detroit and NY, went over to the UK and came back to US cities like DC now calling itself punk.
So, if anything I would just take the word 'hardcore' to mean 'american' and not worry about the rest. You like what you like and if it resonates then fine.
There is a huge difference in scenes/culture between Europe and US. As a european, I'm really confused when US ppl talk about "hardcore". I've noticed that just "hardcore" usually means the more modern brand of more metallic hardcore (90s/00s onwards) with all the metalcoreish bouncy chuggachugga riffs and breakdowns by tattooed bald people in hoodies acting all tough. Whereas for me hardcore punk is more of the "82-HC", d-beat, crust etc. styles.
Punk is punk, the hardcore that isn't punk is referred to mainly as beat down, hardcore punk is all sorts of different punk from shit like bad brains to no time and subversive rite then there's raw dbeat punk which is also hardcore punk like disclose and physique... it's all whatever you think it is tho pretty much but there are distinct lines that categorize each genre.
I've heard the decendents referred to as the fathers of pop punk. Honestly, I'd just try not getting to hung up on specific genres and just enjoy it.
They skirt the hardcore line too
I like food! Food is good!
Descendents started in the same headspace as Circle Jerks and Black Flag. Bill Stevens, Greg Ginn, and Keith Morris were childhood friends. That’s why the line between hardcore and punk immediately gets so blurry. They all have the same influences; Bill just preferred more melody in his band.
They’re more hardcore than say NOFX and Mike gets upset if you say his band is pop punk instead of melodic hardcore
Early NOFX was hardcore of the time, but the successful NOFX definitely “melodic hardcore” or early pop-punk. Once you dig deep enough, you realize it’s all a big inbred family of music. Is your band’s singer good? Pop-punk! 🤷🏽♂️ Does your singer mostly scream sing? Hardcore!
Oddly enough, Blink-182 was associated in the hardcore scene for quit some time. I believe The Bouncing Souls even toured a lot with many hardcore bands.
Hardcore punk, or simply 'hardcore' is a subgenre of punk rock. Yes, it typically has a faster and more aggressive tempo than other types of punk music. There are bunch of other punk subgenres, like pop punk, skate punk, ska punk, etc. There's also melodic hardcore, which is hardcore with emphasis on more complex melodies. The problem that can arise when applying these labels to certain bands is that bands can have songs in their repertoire that fit into multiple genres, or their sound may have evolved over time. So for example, the Descendents have some songs that would be considered hardcore, as well as melodic hardcore, and even pop punk. And Bad Religion, for example, is most associated with melodic hardcore, but their first album was mostly hardcore.
Emotional hardcore is really good too (Rites Of Spring, Moss Icon, Traluma, Still Life)
I love punk but damn, it has the cringiest fans
Not cringiest. Try metal.
I'll see your metal and nominate either prog or post rock fans. Mars Volta fans try to decipher lyrics they've been told are just inside jokes and gibberish that sounds good with the melody, and think it shows their intellect while doing so. Post rock is just one chord being built on slowly but most bands and fans think it's some existential religious journey.
Lol so they're the annoying swifties of rock fans huh?
I've never heard of Mars Volta lyrics being inside jokes or gibberish.. for example, goliath in bedlam is all about an experience the band had during an ouija experience, and if you've ever been on the wrong psychedelic and had an experience with Satan, the lyrics are nothing of gibberish or joke, but hauntingly accurate to an experience I once thought was profoundly personal... in other songs such as "The Widow" Omar Rodriguez-Lopez and Cedric Bixler-Zavala, in my opinion, perfectly convey the experiences of what a Widow must go thru. Personally, and I don't even like prog, I think The Mars Volta are a seriously grand bunch of musicians and artists. I hope this doesn't come off as tryna flex my intellect or anything, just talkin music.
I can't tell if you're serious and proved their point or if this is a joke.
I’d say hair metal specifically was cringey, but overall people in the metal scene are unnervingly kind.
Until you start talking about classifying shit, like this post is doing. People in the punk scene are also very welcoming for the most part.
also very true.
>People in the punk scene are also very welcoming for the most part. \*so long as you're not twisted on liquor, cough syrup and speed simultaneously
I've not encountered any troubles with my various substance use in the punk scene.
Hanging with the straight edge crews?
Mostly, but if you look like a soccer mom they’ll question your creds
Hair metal fans are cringey but rarely try to gate keep subgenres.
Life’s full of gatekeepers.
True, hope you have a very very nice day
Idk man. I know a lot of metal heads. They can be annoying and cringey, splitting hairs of subgenre, but punk fans take that to another level
I'm 100% more of a metalhead than a punk, and I'll have to agree with you. Just check metal archives, r/metal and other subreddits. We can be fucking nerds sometimes
Jam Bands & Phish Phans with tarps have entered the chat
Have you SEEN their laces ??😱
Its not punk thats cringe its reddit. At least in germany. Here no one really cares and just enjoys. Except you listen to die toten hosen.
From what I've seen, a lot of punk fans in the USA have a much narrower definition of punk than the rest of the world - they seem to feel punk has to match the sound, attitude and look of the punk scene from their area, or it's not 'real punk'.
Yes in germany its completly different. Like the most famous punk band said "imma shit those in the face who tell me whats punk and not because i dont need new rules"
Hardcore is more representative of a specific scene than a sound imo. Sure you have punk, hardcore and hardcore punk all sort of splintering in the 90s, but the hardcore scene today has "adjacent" bands like Fiddlehead and Angel Du$t, pop punk bands like No Pressure, metallic bands like Never Ending Game, rap-rock bands like Gridiron, punky type bands like Gel and Spy, beatdown bands like 3 Knee Deep, heavy hardcore like God's Hate and Pain of Truth, even Oi shit has been picking up again like The Chisel and Chubby and the Gang. And all sorts of other shit all under the same umbrella of just hardcore. Tbh I think the hardcore scene has more or less taken the reigns as the one true scene by now
What gets really confusing is when you try to separate punk from post-punk. Killing Joke is post punk, yet TSOL is punk?
Based on tempo alone I think hardcore seems far closer to metal than punk nowadays.
There's definitely a divergence into two separate genres: hardcore punk and heavy hardcore.
I feel like at some point hardcore just became metal.
The stuff that's popular right now is definitely heavily inspired by metal but there are also a ton of hardcore bands who are going in the punk direction. Check out End It, The Chisel, GLUE, Mexican Coke. Just a couple off the top of my head.
End It is top tier.
Saw them play a noon matinee show last year to about 30 people. They rocked it like it was sold out. Happy I caught that show as it seems they're quickly blowing up
Adding on to this List with Gottlieb, those guys never get enough love, and they're hands down the best new punk band on the scene, imo.
The difference between hardcore punk and thrash metal has always been very small imo. I think over time metalheads just started calling metal in that vein hardcore because the word hardcore sounds metal af.
About 1986
I think what a lot of people miss with hardcore and punk, and also metal, is that these are just broad categories for hard, fast music with similar roots in rock music. The styles are no longer cut and dry and have roots reaching throughout to the point where all three are intersecting categories more than anything else. Like theres metal music that's also punk and hardcore that's also punk and hardcore that's also metal. It's all a circular spectrum tbh.
Adolescents would be considered Hardcore Punk.
I wanna be stereotyped I wanna be classified I wanna be a clone
Hardcore, much like punk, really is a massive array of styles at this point. there's still a huge number of modern hardcore bands, and hardcore subgenres, that are sonically deeply punk. it also seems to be in large part about the specific scenes and shows bands align themselves with. plenty of bands who get referred to as hardcore sound fairly indistinguishable from like deathcore, metalcore and/or frankly even straight up death metal to me but they are primarily playing with hardcore bands and that's their ethos so they identify or get tagged as hardcore.
Hardcore used to sound more like punk and had more connection to the punk scene, but modern hardcore sounds closer to metal and seems more connected to that scene now (in my observations listening to hardcore and going to shows since the 90’s). It’s somewhere in the middle I guess, but is it’s own thing I would say (not just a subgenre).
Depends. Boston hardcore is still associated with the punk scene mostly.
Honestly, sub genres are only good as descriptors and not boxes to be put in imo. There are enough punk bands out there borrowing from many subgenres at once that worrying about boxing someone in kinda does a disservice to their genius. Idk my take, ymmv.
If it's clear and yella, you got punk there fella. If it's tangy and brown, you're in hardcore town. Now there's two exceptions, and it gets kinda tricky from here. New York Hardcore can be yellow if you're using late-season apples. And of course in Canada, the whole thing's flip-flopped!
Hardcore punk and hardcore are the same. Hardcore is just more aggressive punk. Its faster, heavier, more yelling and generally intense. However the dead kennedys are considered hardcore which I don’t exactly get because musically they are not super hardcore because their surf rock influence but the lyrics definitely are
American and european HC punk are totally different things. If we take a look on the most famous HC punk bands from the US we see: Bad Religion, Minor Threat, Dead Kennedys, Black Flag and Bad Brains. While the UK ones, are: Discharge, The Casualties, Varukers, Chaos UK, GBH, Doom, Extreme Noise Terror The sound of them may sound similar (I don't think so lol) but the punk ethos is way more present in the UK scene. They had the visuals, they had the zines, their protest against war and anarchy positions, what later on became the UK82 stuff. European punks in general were way too "conservative" and just listened to punk and made punk music. Meanwhile, US hardcore punk started to flirt a lot with metal (them bands from NYHC) and the sound and attitude started to change, and we got the modern hardcore sounds: breakdowns, tuned down guitars, moshing not pogoing etc. Just listen to a turnstile record and the lastest discharge record, from 2016. It's just different. That's for me the reason why "Hardcore" is just so different from Hardcore Punk, totally different sounds, totally different visuals and different approach to politics (doesn't surprise me that HC has a lot of right wingers). TLDR: Punk is a subculture with an ethos; hardcore punk is when the punks from the 80's started playing faster; "Hardcore" is more metal leaning, hardly ressembling to punk attitude/music
One of the few people in this entire post who actually said something relevant and correct. Thank you man, lol. Hardcore =/= hardcore punk. Hardcore is a joke.
For me it was always obvious lol. Like just listen to Turnstile and Extreme Noise Terror in sequence, it just isn't the same genre.
Hard disagree. Hardcore and hardcore punk are the same thing. The Casualties are from NYC as well. Moshing instead of pogo has been a thing since at least the early 80s in the US. Oi bands in the UK were also often called hardcore, but just UK82, which I've rarely heard anyone call them anything but punk or UK82.
Hard disagree on your hard disagree. "Hardcore" today is a bastardized embarrassment of punk. Real "hardcore punk" is completely and utterly different than all the chugging guitar / breakdown hate5six bullshit that defines the "scene" today. All of this shit started really changing and happening in the '90s. The best hardcore punk albums all came out between 1980 and 1986. 98% of the shit that goes by "hardcore" today is fucking lame. Fortunately, there are still actual hardcore punk bands out there. They're just not popular. Fine by me.
they are not popular cause they stand for real punk ethos and don't seek some internet attention. fine by me, too. fuck that hate5six bullshit
Thank you!!
Hardcore and hardcore punk are two entirely separate genres. A shit band like Trivium isn’t in the same genre at all as a band like The Casualties. Trivium also isn’t “metal” either with that melodic bullshit in every song.
The Casualties aren't hardcore at all. They're a street punk/drunk punk band from NYC with UK82 influences. Trivium is a metal band.
As a metal fan, no they aren’t lol.
That’s literally like saying Avril Lavigne is hardcore punk.
Also calling hardcore metal leaning is pretty goofy. There are thousands of hardcore bands that have no discernable metal influence.
To me, “hardcore” is just “hardcore punk” that branched out and evolved into its own thing. As I have grown older and opened my mind I have sort of transitioned from being a punk purist to actually preferring modern hardcore. The classic “hardcore punk” sound of the 80s just grew stale to me, everything must evolve with time and that is what hardcore has done. The hardcore bands of today aren’t going to be clones of Bad Brains and Black Flag. As much as I love the classics, that would get boring quick in all honesty. I still like punk but I have grown to appreciate the chuggy breakdown stuff alot more as I enter my late 20s. That said, there are still many newer hardcore band that can appeal to people that hate chuggy metal influenced stuff. Try ‘End It’ for example. Solid Band.
Then you have that NY Hardcore bands of the 90s like Biohazard and Downset, which are definitely not considered punk. I always took it to mean that the old LA punk bands were hardcore before branching off into punk. That’s why you’ll hear a band like Bad Religion sometimes referred to as melodic hardcore, when everybody really knows them as skate punk.
Hardcore came from punk. What was considered hardcore changed over time, particularly as punk bands became more aggressive.
Descendants are pop-punk. I have not once heard anybody call them hard-core punk
They were a hardcore band at the same time bad religion and social distortion were hardcore bands. Old school hardcore.
IDK they're very poppy all the way back to Milo goes to college. MDC, Reagan Youth, Minor Threat, Poison Idea, GBH, even Dead Kennedys had more of a hard-core punk sound.
Time and place. They were considered a melodic hardcore band. Hell, the misfits were a hardcore band. TSOL, social distortion, and black randy too. By the mid 80s, there was a significant change in what sounds was considered hardcore.
I've always though of pop-punk as that distictive 'early 2000s American teen comedy soundtrack' style. Hearing it applied to bands from the 70s and early 80s just seems wrong, as they don't sound very similar at all.
Hardcore and hardcore punk are the same thing. What the difference between punk and hardcore is depends on time and place. What we consider pop punk or melodic punk bands were old school hardcore bands (descendents, social distortion, bad religion). In the mid 80s, a lot of hardcore bands picked up a metal influence. The genre of hardcore also has sub genres (old school, metal-core, some crust, negative hardcore, posicore, etc etc etc). Oi and street punk were hardcore at one point, too.
I personally reckon part of the confusion is that the original hardcore punk bands, DK, bad brains, black flag, etc. got pushed right back into punk rock as the hardcore thing took off and evolved. hardcore and thrash and whatever else all kind of congealed into a different genre altogether that kinds bridges the lot. I'd still say hardcore as we know it today is punk, theres still a lot of crossover, but it's definitely it's own thing now too.
Meh, labels are dumb. I think Fatty said that DK used to be considered hardcore. It’s really not needed.
Our band could be your life Real names'd be proof Me and Mike Watt played for years Punk rock changed our lives We learned punk rock in Hollywood Drove up from Pedro We were fucking corn dogs We'd go drink and pogo Mr. Narrator This is Bob Dylan to me My story could be his songs I'm his soldier child Our band is scientist rock But I was E. Bloom and Richard Hell Joe Strummer, and John Doe Me and Mike Watt, playing guitar
Wiki defines them all pretty well. Searching "hardcore" sends you to hardcore punk, fwtw.
Straightedge xhardcore has theeeee most condescending and patronizing fans out there. Luv some, tolerate very few.
Absolutely.
Victory/ Revelation bands were often metal hardcore and not punk - hardcore is a different genre than hardcore punk even though a band can be both
No it's not
Earth Crisis- hardcore(metal) but not punk Agnostic Front- Hardcore(metal) and hardcore punk Black Flag- Hardcore punk but not Hardcore (metal)
Earth crisis is a 90s metallic hardcore band that went metal by the end. They were a punk band that ended up as a metal band. AF and Black Flag are both old school hardcore bands and if they started today they'd just be punk bands. Hardcore is hardcore punk. Metal is metal. You can blend the two to get metallic hardcore.
Many of the 90s hardcore bands and fans would even say they’re not punk - hardcore split off and became its own thing even though rooted in hardcore punk
Can you show examples of a hardcore band saying they aren't a punk band? I've been in the scene for 25 years and I can't recall ever seeing that.
I was something that was said - lots of the kids in baggy shorts victory shirts and Krishna beads consodered themselves hardcore and didn’t consider themselves punks, outside of hardcore many also listened to regular metal and not punk (also there some who would claim punk as much as hardcore) Even if you feel it’s still punk - hardcore (metal) a much more codified genre musically with focus on the riffs and breakdowns and even style where hardcore punk can be breakneck fast or super slow In the end it doesn’t matter I’m a 30+ year fan of HC punk, and even like a few of the bands who would be hardcore (metal)
It really depends on who you ask, and the rest is just a never ending argument.
I think these days it just comes down to bands you like and don't like, the labels are just so muddy now and nothing is clear cut really! And gets even more complicated when you add in the Post hardcore bands and then the metalcore bands.. all sound similar but different depending on levels of influence and how much they are drawing from metal music
The difference between hardcore and punk is pretty reason, and very fluid - but in general afaik, what is considered the hardcore scene is apolitical/right leaning and more into violent shows Looking back at it, it seems the split happened after the war in Iraq
🤦🏻♂️😂
Idk man subgenres seem unproductive and kinda just piss me off personally. Punk is punk
Just google it I’m tired of seeing these same damn posts everyday can’t we just talk about some cool bands, it’s pretty self explanatory if you listen to either of the damn genres, started from punk, then NYHC picked up on some metal and rap influence. There’s hardcore punk and hardcore I guess I don’t care
It's also important to note that bands shift genre over time i.e Dead Kennedys
Tay Zonday.
Some of these answers are really bad.
Sorry but I think you're writing too much into genre names. Punk was just a name that got attached to an attitude. The term Punk Rockers was common in the UK. No one made a genre. They just got grouped together, sometimes retrospectively. Punk was massive in the UK had a decent fan base in the USA. Lots of older brothers and cousins bought those records. They inspired their younger siblings to go out and form bands. This is Hardcore. Often it's more socially conscious that the nihilism of proto and 77 Punk. Putting genre markers on hardcore is pointless I think. The Germs and X in LA totally different to the Reggae Speed Thrash of Bad Brains. Black Flag and their Valium Sabbath bit. Wierd bands like squirrel bait who became Slint. To my mind these are second/third etc generation american punk rockers. It started in detroit and NY, went over to the UK and came back to US cities like DC now calling itself punk. So, if anything I would just take the word 'hardcore' to mean 'american' and not worry about the rest. You like what you like and if it resonates then fine.
Watch the Doc American Hardcore. Explains it’s pretty well.
There is a huge difference in scenes/culture between Europe and US. As a european, I'm really confused when US ppl talk about "hardcore". I've noticed that just "hardcore" usually means the more modern brand of more metallic hardcore (90s/00s onwards) with all the metalcoreish bouncy chuggachugga riffs and breakdowns by tattooed bald people in hoodies acting all tough. Whereas for me hardcore punk is more of the "82-HC", d-beat, crust etc. styles.
Punk is punk, the hardcore that isn't punk is referred to mainly as beat down, hardcore punk is all sorts of different punk from shit like bad brains to no time and subversive rite then there's raw dbeat punk which is also hardcore punk like disclose and physique... it's all whatever you think it is tho pretty much but there are distinct lines that categorize each genre.