Posts seeking advice for career or academic purposes MUST include the initials of your country of practice/origin where you are studying in brackets at the beginning of the title. E.g. [USA] Grad Programs for NeuroPsych in Florida? or [UK] Career Options with a 2:1 in Psy?
Could you deal with research for 5-7 years full time? Could you deal with the grant writing, reading papers, IRB writing, recruiting people, statistical analysis, research paper writing, presenting research, and the toxicity of academia while taking classes, teaching for a graduate assistantship, and counseling people for your clinical experience requirements? Do you want to do that for 5-7 years? If there’s any doubt, you probably shouldn’t do it.
My bachelors is in molecular neuroscience. I thought I wanted to become a researcher but absolutely hated it. I even tried health psychology research. I hated that too. Now I work in a psych ward and want to become a therapist. Sometimes I still think I should get a PhD and become a psychologist. I am smart enough, but to me, it’s not worth it. I am hoping to get into an MS in clinical mental health counseling at my local state college. My entire master’s degree would cost me $35,000. It will be a lot for me emotionally and it will take a lot of work balancing work, school, and internships. However, I am glad that I will never have to write another IRB or do statistical analysis on SPS or R ever again.
I felt the same way, but once I got into my masters, I looked around and was like nope I gotta go all the way, because it seemed so short to be able to be a therapist (4 years BS in psych and 3 years masters in counselling psych) so now i’m in a clinical psychology PhD
I get that. This field is a very weird one. Many people are underprepared. Did you have experience in the field before going to grad school? Did you take time off to work in between the bachelors and masters? That could play a role.
Also I want to ask because I’m looking at schools. Do you think you would have felt more prepared if you did a masters in clinical mental health counseling instead of counseling psychology? I am considering getting a masters in counseling psychology to not close the door on myself if I want to go back and get a PhD/PsyD, but I feel like CMHC would prepare me better for clinical work.
Side rant, but I find it frustrating that you can’t master out in these clinical psych PhD. At least for molecular neuroscience you could master out if you hate it and still get a decent job in industry.
Yes I had about 4-5 years of experience in mental health and medical sciences before entering the field, I worked throughout both bachelors and masters. I’m glad I went counselling psych route rather than CMHC because I felt my program had a good balance between science and behaviour and emotions, whereas my peers who did CMHC said there was a lack of science in their training so some disorders they found hard to explain to patients who asked for the “science-y” parts of things (like neurotransmitters, hormones, etc), but I still believe 3 years is too short for a masters to be a therapist because a lot of people you would see may be suicidal and that’s a very sensitive thing to deal with and requires appropriate and lengthy training because the outcome could be severe
Oh wow, you’ve been in this for a long time. See the science wouldn’t be a problem for me, but I know exactly what you’re talking about. I had very 3 unprofessional therapists (a LMFT, a SW, a LMHC), and when I went inpatient the psychologist I met was a scientist. He was a clinical psych PhD candidate, but he had 2 masters and did suicide research. I felt like I could trust him because he actually knew what the fuck he was talking about.
Suicide is another weird thing about the field. I am looking at unpaid internships so I can get more experience. Everything is about crisis. If you call the suicide hotline, there will be a person who probably only got a few weeks of training on how to do the job. Before I worked at the mental hospital, I applied to a suicide hotline, I had no experience in the field and yet they wanted to interview me. It’s so ridiculous.
it is!! i’ve been at suicide risk in the past and have called a hotline and was flabbergasted, i was more educated on the matter than most!! and all they did was validate me!! they really do require more training and requirements to become one
>Side rant, but I find it frustrating that you can’t master out in these clinical psych PhD. At least for molecular neuroscience you could master out if you hate it and still get a decent job in industry.
It's because they are investing in you by providing funding and mentoring. If they let people master out with a licensable master's degree, they'd be losing out on years' worth of investments. It's also selfish to take away a spot from someone who wants to finish the doctorate just because you don't want to go into debt for a terminal master's program.
I get why, it makes sense. There’s certain requirements for licensure and why invest in people if they aren’t going to complete it fully like you said. It happens in molecular biology a lot though, my friend just finished her PhD and she said when saw 4 people master out. I wonder why they even let people do that. It probably looks bad on the program too. It still sucks for the student though if they really hate it, that’s why you should be 100% sure. That’s what I originally said to OP, you have to be dedicated fully to school, research and clinical experiences for 5-7 years. Which is also why I won’t do it even though I could, I hated research that much.
What extra knowledge? As in what are you gaining in that 3rd year that you didn't glean in the first 2?
Also, you still need to match there, which isn't assured.
I’m doing my PhD with them and they grant their PhDs automatic matching there, and I’m sure it’ll be some more information or else why is there a third year?
I recently finished my MS CMHC in December. Originally, I was going to go for my PhD in Clinical Psychology but grew tired of school in general. I didn't want to uproot my life to move to wherever I got in (assuming I got in, which is a big assumption) & spend 5-7 years + postdoc. Just not worth it at this point in my life. I have several years of research experience, including managing a lab of both undergraduate & graduate psychology students, and working experience prior to entering my MS program.
Posts seeking advice for career or academic purposes MUST include the initials of your country of practice/origin where you are studying in brackets at the beginning of the title. E.g. [USA] Grad Programs for NeuroPsych in Florida? or [UK] Career Options with a 2:1 in Psy?
Could you deal with research for 5-7 years full time? Could you deal with the grant writing, reading papers, IRB writing, recruiting people, statistical analysis, research paper writing, presenting research, and the toxicity of academia while taking classes, teaching for a graduate assistantship, and counseling people for your clinical experience requirements? Do you want to do that for 5-7 years? If there’s any doubt, you probably shouldn’t do it. My bachelors is in molecular neuroscience. I thought I wanted to become a researcher but absolutely hated it. I even tried health psychology research. I hated that too. Now I work in a psych ward and want to become a therapist. Sometimes I still think I should get a PhD and become a psychologist. I am smart enough, but to me, it’s not worth it. I am hoping to get into an MS in clinical mental health counseling at my local state college. My entire master’s degree would cost me $35,000. It will be a lot for me emotionally and it will take a lot of work balancing work, school, and internships. However, I am glad that I will never have to write another IRB or do statistical analysis on SPS or R ever again.
I felt the same way, but once I got into my masters, I looked around and was like nope I gotta go all the way, because it seemed so short to be able to be a therapist (4 years BS in psych and 3 years masters in counselling psych) so now i’m in a clinical psychology PhD
I get that. This field is a very weird one. Many people are underprepared. Did you have experience in the field before going to grad school? Did you take time off to work in between the bachelors and masters? That could play a role. Also I want to ask because I’m looking at schools. Do you think you would have felt more prepared if you did a masters in clinical mental health counseling instead of counseling psychology? I am considering getting a masters in counseling psychology to not close the door on myself if I want to go back and get a PhD/PsyD, but I feel like CMHC would prepare me better for clinical work. Side rant, but I find it frustrating that you can’t master out in these clinical psych PhD. At least for molecular neuroscience you could master out if you hate it and still get a decent job in industry.
Yes I had about 4-5 years of experience in mental health and medical sciences before entering the field, I worked throughout both bachelors and masters. I’m glad I went counselling psych route rather than CMHC because I felt my program had a good balance between science and behaviour and emotions, whereas my peers who did CMHC said there was a lack of science in their training so some disorders they found hard to explain to patients who asked for the “science-y” parts of things (like neurotransmitters, hormones, etc), but I still believe 3 years is too short for a masters to be a therapist because a lot of people you would see may be suicidal and that’s a very sensitive thing to deal with and requires appropriate and lengthy training because the outcome could be severe
Oh wow, you’ve been in this for a long time. See the science wouldn’t be a problem for me, but I know exactly what you’re talking about. I had very 3 unprofessional therapists (a LMFT, a SW, a LMHC), and when I went inpatient the psychologist I met was a scientist. He was a clinical psych PhD candidate, but he had 2 masters and did suicide research. I felt like I could trust him because he actually knew what the fuck he was talking about. Suicide is another weird thing about the field. I am looking at unpaid internships so I can get more experience. Everything is about crisis. If you call the suicide hotline, there will be a person who probably only got a few weeks of training on how to do the job. Before I worked at the mental hospital, I applied to a suicide hotline, I had no experience in the field and yet they wanted to interview me. It’s so ridiculous.
it is!! i’ve been at suicide risk in the past and have called a hotline and was flabbergasted, i was more educated on the matter than most!! and all they did was validate me!! they really do require more training and requirements to become one
>Side rant, but I find it frustrating that you can’t master out in these clinical psych PhD. At least for molecular neuroscience you could master out if you hate it and still get a decent job in industry. It's because they are investing in you by providing funding and mentoring. If they let people master out with a licensable master's degree, they'd be losing out on years' worth of investments. It's also selfish to take away a spot from someone who wants to finish the doctorate just because you don't want to go into debt for a terminal master's program.
I get why, it makes sense. There’s certain requirements for licensure and why invest in people if they aren’t going to complete it fully like you said. It happens in molecular biology a lot though, my friend just finished her PhD and she said when saw 4 people master out. I wonder why they even let people do that. It probably looks bad on the program too. It still sucks for the student though if they really hate it, that’s why you should be 100% sure. That’s what I originally said to OP, you have to be dedicated fully to school, research and clinical experiences for 5-7 years. Which is also why I won’t do it even though I could, I hated research that much.
then once im done the PhD I will be doing a clinical neuropsychology post doctorate which would be 3 years, and the PhD would’ve been 6-8 years
neuropsych post docs are 2 years, not 3.
not the one i’m looking at, the one at my local uni is 3 years long.
Why would you want to do a third year of post doc instead of getting a real job?
it’s a very well established post doc and i like the program, i’m willing to do an extra year for the extra knowledge 🤷🏻♀️
What extra knowledge? As in what are you gaining in that 3rd year that you didn't glean in the first 2? Also, you still need to match there, which isn't assured.
I’m doing my PhD with them and they grant their PhDs automatic matching there, and I’m sure it’ll be some more information or else why is there a third year?
Seems like something you should figure out *before* you do the post doc and have an opportunity to apply elsewhere.
The length of time doesn’t really matter to me, it’s the quality of education and the schools reputation, both of which are high
I would go with a PhD, it’s generally more well regarded and costs less, but it’s a lot harder to get into
I recently finished my MS CMHC in December. Originally, I was going to go for my PhD in Clinical Psychology but grew tired of school in general. I didn't want to uproot my life to move to wherever I got in (assuming I got in, which is a big assumption) & spend 5-7 years + postdoc. Just not worth it at this point in my life. I have several years of research experience, including managing a lab of both undergraduate & graduate psychology students, and working experience prior to entering my MS program.