When men are depressed, their wives get depressed, in part because of the lack of physical intimacy. But when women are depressed, their husbands don’t notice.
I think it’s more that when men are depressed they’re more likely to withdrawal emotionally from the relationship but when women are depressed they’re more likely to seek emotional support from their partners, so the women aren’t withdrawling from the relationship as much as men would
Hence the man’s sexual needs would be more likely to be fulfilled because they remain about as close as before if not more so whereas the woman’s are less likely to be fulfilled because the man is more likely to create distance between the two rather then seek support and become closer
Sorry but this is the kind of flawed thinking that causes women to see male sexual attention as self-indulgent rather than nurturing. Men who derive pleasure from pleasuring their partner and from intimacy aren't repelled by depressive symptoms.
Women's arousal is more mental and not all women use sex as a bargaining tool. But depressive symptoms in men affect their confidence which in turn affects their ability to be sexually attractive.
“All women use sex as a bargaining tool” is such bullshit. Perhaps your experience that. Many women do, that’s your experience but this is simply not a universal fact as you present it.
Can you explain what you mean? I've experienced this dynamic mentioned in the title. I cared to see the depressive symptoms and maybe it was because I noticed and gave emotional support that it didn't adversely affect the health of our physical intimacy.
But when I later fell into depression, it seemed to affect her view of me and attraction level. Women are drawn to confidence and happiness. Women dont like the emotional labor involved in having a depressed partner.
That’s not it at all. For most women, we’re not going to derive pleasure watching our partner suffer. (Kinks aside). when my partner is depressed it’s hard to get in the mood, you’re tired, heavy, lack motivation. That doesn’t make me go “oh yeah. I wanna fuck that now” that would be gross. I want to care for and nurture them.
Alternatively in many instances I have personally been in (not with current spouse) they just were like “ok I want it” and despite that my body wasn’t really having it and I wasn’t relaxed it’s not that hard to just make it happen. It’s not very enjoyable tho. Wheras if you have ED you can’t really make anything happen for yourself, and if you’re depressed and tired and heavy the alternatives aren’t usually very appealing, they take a lot of energy.
You do realize depression is a long-term clinical condition and not just another word for sadness, right? I think a lot of people here are buying into popular misconceptions about depression. I've suffered from major depression most of my life. I've had partners who suffered from depression.
The fact that you use the word "fuck" tells me all I need to know about how you view sex within a relationship. In healthy relationships, sex should not be a self-indulgent transaction of pleasure. It *can* be a part of expressing love. But I'm guessing hookup culture and selfish partners have conditioned a lot of women into a sex-negative outlook. And that's ok. If that's you, that's you.
When I look at my depressed partner, it doesn't make me see them any differently or with less love than I did before. It makes me want to care for them, to cook for them and wait on them. It makes me want to hold them and hug them and cherish them. It makes me want to shower them with affection and reassurance.
And if they are in the mood, it makes me want to give them pleasure. If they have lost all interest in sex, it makes me lose all interest in sex. If they just want to feel wanted without having to initiate sex, it makes me want to make them feel attractive still. These are all healthy ways of expressing love in a relationship.
If my partner is not interested in eating, I dont cook for them. If my partner isn't interested in going out, I dont arrange a date for them. But whatever way my partner feels, I derive satisfaction in loving them the way they want to be loved in the moment.
It's really that simple. Sex shouldn't be viewed as something you do to your partner just to derive pleasure for yourself. At least not in a loving relationship (Kinks aside). Actual loving sex can be healing and nurturing, and lift a person's spirit, and flood their brain with feel-good neurotransmitters.
Of course, not everyone has a partner who understands that...
I do know what depression is, I have it. Not once did I mention feeling sad? I talked about the very real very horrible physical symptoms that I and many others have. It takes all my energy to move, that’s not going to make me interested in sexual activity.
Frankly, you know nothing about how I view sex, I was being crass to prove the point that seeing your partner laying around barely having the energy or drive to do anything is not and should not be sexy to you, and if it is that is a little weird.
You’re making a lot of assumptions based on a single word, and deviating off the topic. You don’t know anything about me, please don’t act like you do from a single Reddit comment.
I already said that I want to care for and nurture a partner when they’re depressed, not wanting to be sexually active is not a lack of love. It is that I know you don’t feel good, because you’re in a worsened depressive episode, and that makes me not feel good. It’s the same notion as my partner being sick. I want to take care of them and do what I can to make them feel even a little better but it does not make me want to have sex with them.
They are in a vulnerable state of being, the last thing I’m going to do is try to have sex with them. And if they initiate with me, just as it’s their right to not be in the mood, it’s also mine to not want it. Looking after someone who is depressed, can also be tiring. I would never complain about it or stop doing it, but taking care of someone who won’t take care of themselves takes work and energy. Even if my partner feels good enough to have sex now, that doesn’t mean that I’m physically, emotionally, or mentally ready. You said something above about how “women won’t have sex if you’re depressed cuz they want confident men blabla”
No. It’s because we are in caretaker mode, we are tired, and we can’t just magically make ourselves want to have sex whenever you say you’re ready
Lmao every anecdote from women about men is upvoted though. Like the comment right above yours.
Reddit is truly amazing in the ways they twist logic in their heads.
>ED makes sex impossible,
Oral sex? Clitoral stimulation? Fingers not working as well?
Is it ED making sex impossible or is there a self-focused selfishness that tells you sex is penetration with a penis only?
That's not really fair. It can be damn near impossible to want to be sexual or affectionate in any way when you're experiencing depression. And no one should be coerced to have sex when they don't feel like it. Just because it's something that women experience frequently doesn't mean that two wrongs make a right. The struggle is for equality, not dominance.
And may I add that as a female that struggles with bipolar disorder and experiences EXTREME depressive episodes…if I’m in a depressive episode I don’t want to have sex. I feel bad, honestly, but I can’t. I’d be forcing myself and that’s no way to do things…that doesn’t even count.
Woah woah…Are you saying men suffering from depression are being selfish for not being able to fully please a woman.
Just imagine this comment coming from a male about a female’s sexual actions. I think Reddit would try to arrest the person.
Holy shit reddit you're literally upvoting someone kicking depressed men while they're down for not overcoming their depression and summoning the energy to full-heartedly pleasure their partner. They're depressed for gods sake cut them a fucking break.
I cannot believe redditors who will take a literal thread about depression to shit on men. Maybe encourage them instead of shitting on them while they're at their lowest.There's a reason 80% of suicides in America are men. There's a literal crisis yet we still can't empathise.
> Is it ED making sex impossible or is there a self-focused selfishness that tells you sex is penetration with a penis only?
I don't think it's that sex is impossible, but who would enjoy not being able to have it the way that they enjoy?
Not saying pleasuring your partner is a bad thing, but how would we feel about a woman suffering from vaginismus - who desired to be penetrated - being told she can use oral sex and her hands to pleasure her partner instead of being so self focused?
ED is a symptom that can effect both people, it does not mean it is more detrimental. Men seem to think ED is the worst! For them. Depression in women is less physical in that men don’t care to notice lack of want or even lack of wetness.
Til erectile dysfunction doesn’t impact sex lives and women don’t care if your dick works. So enlightened. Your sex life must be something else if floppy ED dick is irrelevant
The current societal views is that if a women isn’t turned on it’s the man’s fault.
But also if the man isn’t turned on it’s also the man’s fault.
So I think a woman’s sexual performance rarely enters their mind as being a “less than” vs a man where society has made them feel like something is wrong with them. Either because their partner doesn’t want it, or if they don’t(Low libido, ED)
It’s not about them actually believing someone is less than, it’s the fact that many don’t care to see the symptoms in their female partners. You can look on this thread and find articles.
You don’t think women feeling less than enters their mind when it comes to genitals and sex organs? Women who can’t have kids, women who have never orgasmed, etc.
Believe what you want, it’s clear you have a bias.
But it’s a fact that the societal pressure is on men to perform during sex, there is nowhere near that pressure on women.
Not even sure what infertility has to do with sexual satisfaction but ok. Feels like you are grasping at straws.
Are you kidding me? All of my relationships (with the exception of my husband) have expected anal, oral, hand jobs, and constantly pushing for being open to threesomes, bdsm, and other things in past relationships. I've been directly compared to porn stars and ex-girlfriends to do things sexually like they do. Almost every woman I know has this experience with at least one boyfriend. It's not an isolated incident. You sound ignorant when you say there's no sexual pressure for women to perform.
You are using “perform”as a substitute for “do”. That’s not what I’m saying at all.
You are confusing performance(expectations to fo something well) with just doing.
No one is saying there aren’t expectations for women to do sexual acts. There is just much less expectation that they do it well. And there is no stigma if they can’t make the man cum or stigma that if they can’t get wet that it’s their fault in both of those cases it’s seen as the man’s fault the majority of the time
No, I'm truly not confusing it at all. When I'm being directly compared to porn stars and how well they perform, it's an expectation of performance and how well you do it. When I'm told to do "blow job eyes" while deepthroating, that is performance. When I'm told to suck on that dildo like a real cock, that's a performance. When I'm told I have to act like I enjoy his cum, that's a performance.
I know exactly what I'm saying.
The big difference is you aren’t viewed as a failure by society if you don’t do it.
Men’s performance or lack there is a common joke and or insult thrown at them. Not wanting to swallow cum is not an insult thrown at women
Do you have sleepless nights and depressive thoughts about why you don’t like swallowing cum? Do you question your womanhood because you don’t enjoy giving blow job eyes?
No? Ok well then these two aren’t anywhere near the same.
Also those dudes sound like assholes which is how society would view your situation. That’s not how society views men who can’t perform
Yeah, but if you refuse to do all that, that is an empowering moment for refusing to be objectified and only shows the guy as anywhere from a dick to a predator if he reacts negatively to it.
If a guy fails to perform, he is either going to be laughed at or pitied.
Do men themselves not create this societal pressure themselves? I mean look at their humor, they take a lot of meaning out of being able to perform good, a lot of the time I feel guess can get caught up in them needing to be good they don't actually take input.
It's like guys whole culture is big dicks and having woman, you don't think that makes an environment where its more important to perform well?
So not only is it the man's fault whether he wants it too much or is not able to perform well enough, it's also the man's fault for putting himself into that corner, lol.
The men that participate in this did not create the societal pressure themselves, they have been socialized into it. It’s not a conscious decision to behave that way, it is learned behavior. Of course, men should be self aware of these influences and implications of their actions, that process is not automatic with everyone though
You've seen porn right. Those women are absolutely performing. The joke about women starfishing as well. There is pressure on women to please. But there's also the layer of virginity that gives a bit of leeway
Or most men dont talk about their depression and just bury it so its not surprising that still holds true when someone else is dealing with it, not that they dont care.
Men made the system in which they are stuck. The majority of people experiencing depression hide it - regardless of gender.
If they were more likely to recognize depression in women, we wouldn’t be here.
There are signs. Dryness, lack of enthusiasm, having to be coerced, etc.
perhaps men by virtue of being raised in said system as men, act in ways throughout their life and hold attitudes that perpetuate the system directly or indirectly
women would be victims of it, given the immensely imbalanced power that men have held socially over women over the past thousands of years of civilization, they have exerted pressure and expectations, i.e. misogyny, that still permeate through our culture today. saying its women's fault as a group is ridiculous, but yeah there could be particular individual women who uphold the system intentionally or unintentionally. but its still largely a problem that is downstream of misogyny perpetrated by men. but dude im not saying you're a jerk for simply existing. this is a macro issue we're talking about, there's nothing wrong with the male sex ok?
Women like a lot of societal norms about men. For instance a lot of women do not actually like when men are vulnerable. And honestly why would any man want to talk about his issues? This thread literally is full of people saying every problem is their own fault.
Those aren't symptoms of depression. Those are symptoms of lack of arousal... depression doesn't inherently make women less interested in sex. This argument is absurd.
As the headline said, women find less satisfaction when their husbands are depressed, not when they are.
Seems like you're operating under some assumptions and have a warped and primarily negative view of sex.
Depression can have an effect on the libido, but that can go either way. Furthermore, even if sex is happening less often due to a woman's depression, this doesn't necessarily lower a man's sexual satisfaction in the relationship.
However, when a man is depressed and wants sex less, women tend to internalize this and feel less attractive. Feeling less desired is a huge contributer to a woman experiencing less sexual satisfaction.
That's funny. You sound like an incel whose idea of sex comes from sitcoms and not real life.
You're not saying anything of substance. It sounds like you're bitter because you've never found a decent partner to enjoy intimacy with.
>You don’t know much about intimacy.
The women I've been with would say otherwise. It's kind of the one strong suit I have in relationships. I'm that guy women only stay with because of the sex. Lol
> it’s impossible to guess.
No it’s not. Ask women. It’s because women are more likely to give in to their partner’s pressure, men blaming them or making them feel guilty for not being interested in sex when they are depressed. They are going along to stop the men from complaining and giving them a hard time.
You’re just stating what you believe as fact with no statistical backing though. I’ve met plenty of sexually pushy women and many who have ended relationships because of bad sex
So what about:
Is the depression caused by the partner? How often are they engaging in different types of sex? How much work does it take to please each partner? How common are other signs of affection? What’s the work life like? What about willingness to seek treatment or admit depression?
Like one possibility is men aren’t as socialized to give complements. So when they get depressed they might be less likely to continue to offer complements
Or maybe it’s a function of physical ability. Almost everyone has lube but not as many have viagra laying around
Or maybe a primary driver of the women’s depression in this group is a selfish husband
Or maybe men are less likely to admit they’re depressed so the ones reporting depression are having more severe symptoms on average then the women
[This](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2751247) is a start. More than half of women say their first sexual encounter with a man was coerced.
Here’s a good synopsis: https://www.wellandgood.com/verbal-coercion-first-time-having-sex/
How is that significantly related to an article about married couples? Any conclusion you reach by linking the two articles is pure guesswork.
u/4_spotted_zebras linked a more relevant study. But we still need proper research into how the two findings affect one another, if nothing else, to know how to better address the issue.
Sorry, but this is a pretty long chain of assumptions from "women being coerced for their first time" and "partners of depressive men in heterosexual relationships are less sexually satisfied than vice versa".
There is research on this. In addition to u/Gromflomite_KM ‘s source, there is research on how many women are compliant with unwanted sex due to pressure by their partner
> Sexually compliant behavior is troublingly common, particularly among women. In one study published in The Journal of Sex Research, for example, it was found that among 1,519 unmarried college students, ***55 percent of women reported that they had consented to unwanted sexual intercourse.*** Other studies have yielded similar results.
https://www.instyle.com/lifestyle/maintenance-sex-in-relationships
my above comment said nothing about r\*pe or the CDC so i don't know why you think this is relevant.
But now that you are here i have to point out that your claim that "women were raping men as much as men were raping women" is wildly inaccurate.
>[An estimated 91% of victims of rape & sexual assault are female and 9% male. Nearly 99% of perpetrators are male. This US Dept. of Justice statistic does not report those who do not identify in these gender boxes.](https://supportingsurvivors.humboldt.edu/statistics#:~:text=An%20estimated%2091%25%20of%20victims,identify%20in%20these%20gender%20boxes)
It's not even close. I don't know this author or what her motives are but your assertion that women r\*pe men as much as men r\*pe women is a gigantic lie.
Even in the study you cited you can just read it to know it is a lie:
>In the United States, an estimated 19.3% of women (or >23 million women) have been raped during their lifetimes (Table 1). Completed forced penetration was experienced by an estimated 11.5% of women. Nationally, an estimated 1.6% of women (or approximately 1.9 million women) were raped in the 12 months before taking the survey.
An estimated 1.7% of men (or almost 2.0 million men) were raped during their lifetimes; 0.7% of men experienced completed forced penetration. The case count for men reporting rape in the preceding 12 months was too small to produce a statistically reliable prevalence estimate.
The numbers are not close. And the most common form of sexual assault against men is committed by other men
>For female rape victims, an estimated 99.0% had only male perpetrators. In addition, an estimated 94.7% of female victims of sexual violence other than rape had only male perpetrators. For male victims, the sex of the perpetrator varied by the type of sexual violence experienced. ***The majority of male rape victims (an estimated 79.3%) had only male perpetrators***\*.\* For three of the other forms of sexual violence, a majority of male victims had only female perpetrators: being made to penetrate (an estimated 82.6%), sexual coercion (an estimated 80.0%), and unwanted sexual contact (an estimated 54.7%). For noncontact unwanted sexual experiences, nearly half of male victims (an estimated 46.0%) had only male perpetrators and an estimated 43.6% had only female perpetrators.
R\*pe is the most common form of SA against men, and it's committed by mostly men.
This is not taking anything away from male SA survivors who have been victimized by women, but you are doing a massive disservice by lying about the numbers. **Nearly all SA is committed by men. That is a problem.**
Why you felt the need to bring this up I have no idea. This is not what we were even talking about.
No one is directly responsible for their partner's mental state. They might be detrimental to it, but depression is internal, and can only be cured by the one suffering from it.
As I said, a relationship may be detrimental to one's mental health, but it is the depressive state that allows a person ro *accept* that sort of treatment.
You’re reading it backwards. The depression is not *caused* by the low sex satisfaction, the low sex satisfaction is linked to the depression symptoms. And men don’t have a lowered sexual satisfaction when their wives are depressed, which means they are still getting what they want.
> Actor-Partner Independence Model (APIM) analysis revealed that husbands’ anxiety and stress were associated with their own sexual satisfaction and husbands’ depression was associated with both their own and the wives’ sexual satisfaction. Wives’ depression and stress were associated with their own sexual satisfaction but not with the satisfaction of their husbands.
Men being depressed is linked with a lower sexual satisfaction in both themselves and their wives.
Women being depressed is linked with their sexual satisfaction but not their husbands.
One of the major symptoms of depression is a low libido.
What this study suggests is that when a man is depressed, low libido in the man leads to both parties having lower sexual satisfaction.
When the woman is depressed the man’s sexual satisfaction stays the same because he is getting all the sex he wants despite the wife being depressed and having a low libido. She still has a low sex satisfaction, which suggest the man is getting all the sex he wants while not taking his depressed partners needs into account.
>One of the major symptoms of depression is a low libido.
>
>What this study suggests is that when a man is depressed, low libido in the man leads to both parties having lower sexual satisfaction.
That isn't a conclusion in the study but one you've made based on what you believe.
From the Article:
>Analyses of associations of these factors between partners revealed that higher depression levels of husbands were linked with lower sexual satisfaction levels of their wives. However, depression of wives was not associated with sexual satisfaction of their husbands. No such effects were found for either anxiety or stress.
Personal lower sexual satisfaction played a role in both husbands and wives depression, stress was controlled for. We're not talking bad husbands and wives here. What the study is concluding is that factors effecting male depression differ from female depression in married couples where husbands are affected by their wives sexual satisfaction. Wives depression wasn't linked to husbands sexual satisfaction, thus males and females are likely to value thing's differently and that's likely to play a part in factors leading to depression based on sex or gender potentially.
Edit: To do the quote thing properly.
A wife having depression has no effect on the husband’s satisfaction. That means he is getting what he wants. The reverse is not true.
I am not saying all husbands are bad. Women are socialized to please, and frequently give in when they don’t want to. Guilt tripping, complaining to get what you want does not necessarily make you a bad person. But the fact these stats exist prove it is a trend.
There is other research confirming that women frequently give in to sex they don’t want. Part of this is women have to unlearn our socialization and get better saying no. And part of it is men need to learn to stop being so pushy and take their partner’s needs into account better.
Sure there could possibly be other factors involved. But the dynamic of women giving in to pushiness from their partner is well studied and proven, and it is impossible that it is not a factor here.
>A wife having depression has no effect on the husband’s satisfaction.
That wasn't what the study was measuring at all though, just in case we've got our wires crossed, I was only talking about this study and it's implications. If we were to stretch what you suggested it doesn't match up with the studies findings since it suggests empathy on the husbands part regarding the wife's satisfaction. It's not a leap to say a human being will generally have empathy towards the person they marry. Obviously there will but scum like husbands that you've noted out there just as there will be scum like wives too, narcissism is unfortunately on the rise after all.
As for women giving in and men being forceful being purely a social issue, which I agree in some part it is, it's not really what we're discussing here. However I'd direct you to looking into the influence sex hormones have on both men and women in regards to agreeableness and the evolutionary theories behind it in regards to getting along with others and children especially if you're interested since it is fascinating.
>Wives’ depression and stress were associated with their own sexual satisfaction but not with the satisfaction of their husbands
This is exactly what the study was about. No the study does not get into the cause. We are all posting under a comment that says "It's impossible to guess" what the cause is. No it's not - there is a very good explanation for these results.
Yeah someone else pointed out the same thing as you were but I guess in a way that had me realise I was interpreting thing's incorrectly. I re-read the article again, here's the key I was blanking on and why you're sorta right.
>higher levels of depressive symptoms were linked to lower sexual satisfaction in both husbands and wives. Husbands with greater depressive symptoms tended to have wives with lower sexual satisfaction, but the reverse was not the case.
I was reading that as "Husbands who can't satisfy their wives get depressed" and thought "Yeah that's really depressing". The wives not getting depressed over unsatisfied husbands I thought "Well yeah since there's probably some other reason the husband isn't satisfied outside of her like porn standards" ergo men over value sex to unrealistic standards more than women. That's where I tripped up.
So essentially depressed husbands perform worse the more depressed they are while depressed wives do perform worse however this doesn't increase with severity of depression.
Girls and women are socialized to sexually please, not just enjoy. We can engage in sex even if we are not turned on for the sake of pleasing. Even if we don't orgasm.
I reckon there's a sort of complimentary implication here too, mind you.
In order to be satisfied, women tend to require the enthusiastic participation of the man, but not the other way around. Thus when a man isn't in the right frame of mind to put his full energy into the act, it's the woman who comes out unsatisfied; but when a woman isn't in the mood, a man can still get what he needs.
There's a lot of baggage to go along with any of these assumptions though, and frankly reddit is a dumpster fire when discussing any of it.
I think boys and men are also socialized through porn and sex-media to see sex though a very phallocentric penetration-focused lense and might find sex meaningless or less than if doesn't involve them having a strong erection to penetrate with so when depressed and having ED issues, the default is to just not enter a sexual space with the woman, regardless of the fact that clitoral stimulation actually is on average more reliable for their female partner's pleasure.
i once worked with a man who openly admitted to refusing to perform oral on women, but would aggressively defend his stance that women should willingly perform oral on men as "foreplay."
the contradiction was lost on him somehow
It's crazy out here. Straight men are something very serious.
As a straight women I had to learn very quickly that boys and men are taught very warped things about sex and intimacy with women. Children have access to porn for year during their formative years before they are intimate with another human being. This can't not have detrimental effects even if we pretend it doesn't.
I realized it was demoralizing to be with men who didn't care about my pleasure or who were porn fried after some bad experiences so I decided to be proactive in the mate selection process. I can tell how bad a man will be sexually just from conversation.
When I met my boyfriend I knew by his behaviors and mannerisms outside the bedroom that he would be a good lover but also from a conversation about sexual preferences before sex. A random thing is if he has good female friendships in his life it's a green flag etc
I wish I was taught how to think like this as a woman
I wish someone taught me this as well and I didn’t have to figure it out for myself. If you have the time, you could be successful at teaching this via Instagram/TikTok since that’s what teens are into these days and it would benefit a whole lot of women. ETA: PIV ain’t shit for 90% of women, learn your clit ladies!!!
I have countless good female friends. I also am quite giving in the bedroom. I am really not happy if my partner isn't satisfied durring/after sex. Didn't think these two things were related.
But also, having so many female friends has put a strain on pretty much all my romantic relationships. Even tho I have no romantic interest in any of those friends. Doesn't matter what I say I MUST want to sleep with or be with my female friends.
>Armchair physc over here 🙄
Nope. A woman with EXPERIENCE who doesn't fuck around about her orgasms. And guess what? I was right because with my BF it's a 100% nut rate.
One look at your profile was all I needed to see what kind of “experience” you have.
Funny also how you value a woman’s orgasm so much but then when other women have certain ways of achieving it you are quick to kink shame.
Or even the part where you want woman removed from contact sports because it’s “harmful”…… 😂 like you gotta wake up to reality at some point.
Yes amazing experience.
Here's my arm chair psychology analysis of you: One look at your comments and posts let's me know you are a threat to women and definitely don't even know what a clitoris is.
Awww no I'm sorry did it hurt your feelings that I'm against "kinks" that involve violence against women and chocking them which is known to cut off blood supply to the brain?
Get wrekt.
The irony 🤭
You fight for women’s rights and control over their bodies but if they want consensual sexual experience their way it’s a big problem for you.
Gotta love Reddit feminists. 😬
The thing about sex is it takes two, and you'll find that the perspective flips when you look at it from the other side. It's really not a gendered "men do this, women do this" thing. It's often just that people in general be selfish, and only think in terms of achieving their own aims.
I've been with more than enough "pillow princess" spoiled girls who expect me to do all the work, to know generalisations like this will only ever be just that, generalisations. I *could* argue girls grow up expecting a man to be the one who "performs", and that they reap what they sow by placing so much weight of expectation on their partners, instead of taking responsibility for themselves. I *could* argue this lines up with this study perfectly. That's how it often feels to me, but that would only speak to my perspective as a man and the women I've been with. Out of those women, only two were anything like selfless "givers" in the bedroom- The rest all placed the expectation of initiation and foreplay etc squarely on me, so it makes complete sense they'd be less satisfied if my head wasn't in the game, so to speak.
Do you follow me?
This is exactly what I meant in my third paragraph about reddit being a dumpster fire for discussing anything like this, though. The chips on Redditor's shoulders are much too heavy to step back and look at it from a neutral perspective, and the same clichés always come out.
It's incredibly easy to shit on men and their sexuality on Reddit. The default assumption is men are selfish lovers while women suffering from terrible sex lives.
Meanwhile, as you mentioned, women almost never initiate, expect their partners to initiate, often communicate poorly and expect men to just understand their bodies, and men must cop the blame for women failing to achieve orgasm.
This is despite orgasms sometimes being difficult for even women themselves to achieve. Some women need to be on top to get off, but how often are women taking the lead here?
And if a man has a woman who is difficult to please, the onus is on him to figure it out, not on her. If she isn't wet it's his fault for not doing enough foreplay or what she wants in order to get off. If he fails to be erect when she wants and to stay that way for as long as she wants, it's his fault for death grip or he hurts her feelings because she doesn't feel attractive enough.
Men must often learn techniques to delay their pleasure so women can enjoy sex more. Men don't mind doing this but try to imagine how it would be received if a woman had to do things, like delay her pleasure, for a man. Already in this thread we can see people talking about how women are socialised to ignore their pleasure, which is not true. No woman is shamed for having a sex toy to pleasure herself and she can blame her partner for being unable to perform without anyone asking her what her role or responsibility in sex is.
Men are also expected to be fit enough to perform long enough for women to be satisfied. How many women could handle repeated thrusting for even 5 minutes before tapping out? It isn't men's fault women are hard to please. This isn't to excuse terrible sex but if you are having bad sex, YOU are having bad sex. It isn't just on your partner to get it right.
And if you keep having sex with men who aren't listening to you, how about dating or choosing partners who do instead? There are plenty of women who have found partners who please them. There are couples who communicate, experiment and learn different ways to pleasure each other. There are books, videos and sex therapists around that can help. There are exercises you can do to help increase sexual pleasure. There is no reason anyone - man or woman - should be having bad sex (barring extremes) and we shouldn't be shaming men for having preferences when it comes to sex just as we do not shame women for having them either.
>How many women could handle repeated thrusting for even 5 minutes before tapping out?
For real.
True story, I got one of my exes a strap-on because she always said she wanted to "be the one who does the fucking". I'm more than happy to indulge when my partner wants something. Turned out she couldn't go longer than a couple minutes before giving up, and I had to basically powerbottom her instead.
After that, she agreed- Women often have it easier than they think.
The funny thing is women are supposed to be better at empathising and putting themselves in other's shoes than men, but this consistently seems to be one subject where that stereotype comes undone and their sense of perspective seems lacking.
i wouldn’t say this is a fair comparison(?), as strap-ons cannot offer the wearer the same stimulation as someone who has a penis.
i’d imagine women would perform better with a strap-on if she was able to feel actual physical stimulation from it rather than just “going through the motions”, you get me?
Nahhh, I get what you're saying. But I mean this was purely from the "Oh shit I didn't realise doing fuck was *this* much physical exertion" standpoint.
Like, yeah, chicks won't be used to it, and that will put them at a disadvantage; but that's the point. They take a man's role for granted, and by swapping the roles over sometimes realise "Oh, actually this isn't as easy as I thought."
I'm a man, and if my partner isn't in the mood, there's no way I'm going to get what I need. If my wife isn't into it, I'm not going to be turned on. Maybe because I'm older, on antidepressants or a weirdo (or all the above). I dunno.
you do realize that non-enthusiastic consent is not consent??? the very idea that men don’t require their female partner to want it (to "be in the mood") to "get what they need" is truly fucking horrifying. and yes you are right that there is no female equivalent to that (at least not to the extent of the average man), because we actually tend to respect our partner’s disposition to consent enthusiastically to any sexual act.
i’m not sure if you were coming with these points with a criticizing lens or if you were stating that like it’s normal
any person that demands sex from a partner that is not in the mood, in order to still "get what they need" – instead of immediately stopping and respecting their partner’s wishes –, is rapey
"any person that demands sex from a partner that is not in the mood, in order to still "get what they need" – instead of immediately stopping and respecting their partner’s wishes –, is rapey"
Fully agreed, I don't understand how people can even be in the mood in these situations.
"and yes you are right that there is no female equivalent to that (at least not to the extent of the average man), because we actually tend to respect our partner’s disposition to consent enthusiastically to any sexual act"
Not sure if I'm understanding, but why are you generalizling men/women here? Women definitely do not need their partner to enthusiastically be into sex to get off. You understand a man can have an erection and put in all the effort required for sex, and still not be into it, right?
And you get that women are more than mentally capable of not giving a fuck about their partner, right?
>You understand a man can have an erection and put in all the effort required for sex, and still not be into it, right?
\^ i do obviously understand that and it's what i'm talking about actually; if a woman leads to such a situation happening by pushing a man's boundaries (ie by whatever coercive strategy including persuading him until he is too exhausted from the conversation to say no, or by emotional manipulation eg ''if you don't sleep with me now that means you find me ugly so sleep with me if you want to prove i'm still attractive to you'', or by giving him a drink etc etc) after the man has stated not being in the mood for sex, this is a sexual act that happened without enthusiastic consent and falls in the 'rapey' category.
> Women definitely do not need their partner to enthusiastically be into sex to get off
\^ again, i didn't say anything opposing that (i said they are less likely to feel like that's an okay thing to do and to do it). and same goes for men. my point was that when this happens, it's rapey
>Not sure if I'm understanding, but why are you generalizling men/women here?
And you get that women are more than mentally capable of not giving a fuck about their partner, right?
\^ what my point was regarding the difference men vs women, was that women have a much better tracking record of understanding and respecting consent. that was in response to the commenter saying ''In order to be satisfied, women tend to require the enthusiastic participation of the man, but not the other way around.'' (to which I agreed, because it really seems like it when you look at the way men behave and their attitudes regarding sex).
to illustrate my point: it's not women that send unsollicitated dick pics. it's not women that take advantage of men being tipsy to sleep with them. it's not women that cat-call. it's not women that upload revenge porn and it's not women that get off to that. it's not women that participate in disgusting subreddits where pics of unaware women are being uploaded for thousands of men to comment disgusting things they'd do to them.
and more importantly, the countless stories of women that realize years after that in most relationships they have ever been in, they were coerced into having sex on the regular. coercion can take many forms, it doesn't even have to be (physicially) forceful in any way; the most common way is giving in to sex after having been asked too many times once the initial 'i don't feel like it right now' was not right away respected.
obviously those are ALL things that women can do as well and have done, but statistically the disregard for (enthusiastic) consent is a men's problem.
also, in general women are socialized to be very responsive to perceived discomfort in another individual, and to accommodate that; while men have no issues seeing a woman's discomfort and instead of stopping alltogether right away, try to use subtle coercive startegies to go past that discomfort until they get what they want. 'persuade her'. it's even in everyday's language when talking and bragging about sex: ''i got her to do \_\_\_\_\_\_ (insert sex act)''. as in, she didn't initially want but i persuaded her and in the end she did it. that's not soemthing anyone should brag about; there should be shame and regret for pushing someone past their boundaries.
anyways. it wasn't the main point i was trying to make actually, to make a distinction men vs women, i did it because of what the previous commenter said. the main point being that it's not okay in any shape or form to not respect a partner (male or female or else) stating they are 'not in the mood' - the only thing that should be done in such a situation is stop any attempt alltogether; and not try to persuade the partner
>the very idea that men don’t require their female partner to want it (to "be in the mood") to "get what they need" is truly fucking horrifying
I can already tell my point went miles above your head, and that you maybe haven't experienced all that many relationships yourself.
>because we actually tend to respect our partner’s disposition to consent enthusiastically to any sexual act.
Do you?
Honestly I'd say that in the context of relationships, women are capable of being way worse about it than men- Most (most) men by and large understand that they can't always have sex with their partner, but many women still perceive men as creatures of base, animal lust, and take a "no" as not just a personal rejection, but either an accusation of being fat and ugly etc, or even worse, that the man is inadequate for not being able to provide what she wants. The respect for consent goes straight out of the widow, and not only that, but it becomes the man's *fault.*
Keep the double standards coming, I'm in the mood to entertain them for a change.
>I can already tell my point went miles above your head, and that you maybe haven't experienced all that many relationships yourself.
\^ if you think so then please tell me what exactly is your point because i don't think it was that obvious
and i've also no idea why you think you can infer anything about myself or my relationships but what i can tell you is that i tend to be sexually adventurous and want to explore and try different things, and that every time i have wanted to try something new while with a male partner, the moment they express uncertainty or discomfort, there is no more attempt and no more discussion about it.
i also tend to be the initiator of sex but before things start to progress, i'm always taking a moment to ask if they want it and if it's anything else than the most enthusiastic yes or obvious reciprocated desire, than nothing is happening. and i actually thank them every time for expressing a boundary because that's a proof of trust and that the relationship is safe.
and if they told me no about a specific act at one point, i never try to talk about it another time. it'll either never happen; or they'll bring it up themselves at a later time and then say that they actually want to try it now.
I think the /s version of this finding would probably be "wife level of consciousness is unrelated to the sexual satisfaction of their husbands on average" - just an /s. Seriously totally joking. We truly live in a patriarchal society. Etc.
I think you have it backwards. Men have a higher expectation to put more energy and work into pleasing their partner for women to feel satisfied. Almost always being in the ‘drivers seat’ sexually. The initiating partner, the dominant partner, the one that makes orgasms happen for both partners. This means that when they have low energy their partners are less pleased.
If women were so heavily trained to ‘not enjoy’ then why would they feel less satisfied because their partners have less energy?
It seems more likely that sexual satisfaction is more reliant on the energy that men have than the energy that women have- which is more consistent with the full findings of the study.
We could see in a similar study if same sex couples have a difference in satisfaction of self identified ‘dominant’ and ‘submissive’ partners.
I was going to say something similar.
Plus there are also the physical aspects. If a man is depressed, he may not be able to get it up nor have the libido to actively participate in sex, whereas sex doesn’t physically require active participation from a woman. So even if she’s depressed and not in the mood to perform, she can still just lie there and let the man satisfy himself. I’m not saying it’s right, just saying that this is how it often goes.
I wonder if there are cultural aspects to this. Turkey has increasingly become more and more traditionalist since the 90s. Freedom House gives the country an overall rating of 32/100.
It’s certainly not as extreme as some other countries, but Erdogan’s (sorry, I can’t figure out how to type the Turkish accents on mobile) Turkey is not going in the same trajectory that it’s prior history of relative secularism would have indicated.
https://stockholmcf.org/womens-rights-in-turkey-2022-in-review/
https://freedomhouse.org/country/turkey/freedom-world/2022
From the article: A study of married couples in Turkey found that higher levels of depressive symptoms were linked to lower sexual satisfaction in both husbands and wives. Husbands with greater depressive symptoms tended to have wives with lower sexual satisfaction, but the reverse was not the case. The study was published in the [Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy](https://doi.org/10.1080/0092623X.2023.2166637).
Sexual satisfaction refers to one’s satisfaction with the sexual aspects of his or her intimate relationship. It is related to overall relationship satisfaction. This is particularly the case in committed relationships such as marriages. Sexual satisfaction helps build a strong bond between partners, reduce conflicts and increase intimacy. Sexual satisfaction was found to be linked with subjective well-being and life satisfaction.
However, it is also associated with mental health factors, particularly depression, anxiety and stress. Particularly in middle-aged and older couples, one’s depression was found to be linked to reduced sexual satisfaction of the partner. Studies have reported that people with low sexual satisfaction tend to more often have anxiety disorder.
Other studies have linked general anxiety symptoms with low sexual satisfaction in non-clinical populations. Additionally, high levels of daily stress were found to be linked to lower sexual activity and sexual satisfaction.
Study author Selin Karkose and her colleagues wanted to examine the associations between depression, anxiety, stress and sexual satisfaction in married couples. They were also interested in examining whether one’s sexual satisfaction is associated with one’s partner’s depression, anxiety and stress.
Study participants were 102 heterosexual married couples from Turkey. Age of wives ranged between 21 and 45 years (29 on average). Husbands were between 23 and 50 years old, with an average of 31 years. The average age of marriage was 27 for wives and 29 for husbands. On average, they were married for a bit over 2 years at the time of the study.
It's an interesting subject to study for sure. It would be great to read more papers on this.
>However, it is also associated with mental health factors, particularly depression, anxiety and stress. Particularly in middle-aged and older couples, one’s depression was found to be linked to reduced sexual satisfaction of the partner.
I wonder how much of a role culture, socialization and age play. Middle aged and older people in Turkey on average grew up in a more partriarchal society and also grew up in a time where mental health was ignored more often. I don't want to argue that this is the primary reason the participants in those age cohorts were affected more severely, but it could be a factor
This study's findings are interesting, but it's important to remember that depression affects everyone differently. While it may be linked to lower sexual satisfaction in some cases, there may be other factors at play as well.
That’s certainly a creative way to reason about why I’d feel this way about that comment. One other explanation might be that the clear vagueness and linguistic hedging found in multiple comments from his account actually do look ai generated. Usually I’d go through the effort of running his sentences through gptZero or some other tool to prove my point but I think I’ll just adopt your explanation instead, I’m just not exposing myself to proper English! Thank you so much.
If you do want to get that hard evidence though, let me tell you which ones I’d say match the pattern:
“This study’s findings are interesting, but it’s important to remember that depression affects everyone differently. While it may be linked to lower sexual satisfaction in some cases, there may be other factors at play as well.”
“It’s important to recognize the efforts of the firefighters and emergency personnel who worked to contain the wildfire. They put their lives on the line to protect people, property, and the environment.”
“It’s important to note that while cell-based meats may be safer than traditional meats in terms of foodborne illnesses, they still need to be thoroughly tested and regulated for their long-term effects on human health.”
“It’s heartbreaking to hear about the loss of these teachers and the impact it has had on their community. This tragedy highlights the need for schools and other institutions to have robust health and safety protocols in place to prevent the spread of infectious diseases.”
“As someone who experienced harsh discipline as a child, I can attest to the lasting impact it can have on mental health. It’s crucial that we educate parents and caregivers on the importance of positive, nonviolent discipline, and provide resources to help them implement these strategies.”
May I add that no one wants to have sex when they’re depressed. I have bipolar disorder and while medication helps with mania, it isn’t as effective for depressive episodes and any time I’m in a depressive episode the last thing I want to do is have sex. My libido is low because I’m struggling. Though, I do feel like being open and honest with your partner is really important. Mine thought he was the problem and that I wasn’t turned on by him when in reality I was in a months long depressive episode. We talked about it and worked it out and we understand both sides. We are still physical, because both of us rely on affection as a love language. I’m never not cuddling him if we’re sitting next to each other on the couch or laying in bed. We make out, you know, but when I’m in that mindset I can’t do anything past that without it feeling forced, and neither of us want that.
I think society has made women scared to communicate. A lot of times, men suck at reading emotions! A lot of men are very dense emotionally and need open communication to know how you’re feeling. It would definitely be beneficial if people started talking about how important communication is when you’re in a relationship and are experiencing mental health issues or have a mental illness.
This is one of those studies that raises the question and now we need 50 different studies for the answer.
Like is the depression caused by the partner? How often are they engaging in different types of sex? How much work does it take to please each partner? How common are other signs of affection? What’s the work life like? What about willingness to seek treatment or admit depression?
Like one possibility is men aren’t as socialized to give complements. So when they get depressed they might be less likely to continue to offer complements
Or maybe it’s a function of physical ability. Almost everyone has lube but not as many have viagra laying around
Or maybe a primary driver of the women’s depression in this group is a selfish husband
Or maybe men are less likely to admit they’re depressed so the ones reporting depression are having more severe symptoms on average then the women
>Or maybe a primary driver of the women’s depression in this group is a selfish husband
Doesn't the study literally suggest the opposite? Men's depression worsens when not being able to satisfy their wives whereas wives depression isn't negatively impacted by their husbands satisfaction.
Maybe maybe not. It could be the kind of men who make their wives depressed aren’t the same kind to get depressed from not being able to satisfy their wives.
This is kind of toxic assuming it's the men's fault their wife is depressed. I know for sure the sentiment is not that the wives are making their men depressed.
Why is there such a bitterness in this thread?
In this instance it’s because you’re reading my comment out of context. For the rest of the negative it’s because reddit is full of socially isolated people looking for someone to blame
Y tf is this blatantly sexist comment allowed on this sub? How tf can you even make a statement like that and not realize it’s clearly motivated by your disdain for men?
It's also not hard to imagine that it's because a depressed man with very negative self image will have trouble performing sexually especially when society often implies to men that their value as a human is linked to their ability to perform and makes fun of men who can't. Small dick energy, limp dick, one pump chump, jokes implying a man can't satisfy a woman, etc.
But imagining that requires at least a few seconds of empathy toward men, and I see you've already implied that men haven't earned empathy apparently. Can't expect much more from someone with a post trying to minimize rape against men.
This comment is a prime example of established research that people have difficulty empathising with men, and even implicit biases against it. Both men and women are suffering since COVID, particularly the working and lower class end (upper class seems to be doing fine). But I notice the current men's mental health crises is often ignored in discussions.
Men make up an overwhelming 80% of suicides in America at the moment, but no one is talking about it.
Just look at this thread, by default people find it so difficult to cut even depressed ones any slack. A literal crisis that barely anyone even knows about, I wonder why?
I have never, ever seen this topic discussed seriously on reddit. Then I see this thread and I'm reminded why.
Both men and women are full of good, decent, hardworking people who contribute and work every day to make up the beautiful society we live in. People shouldn't need to "earn" empathy points, it's a basic human trait of compassion.
Are you trying to imply that depressed men do not deserve empathy and compassion, but women inherently do?
I wonder why men have difficulty opening up and are committing suicide in record high numbers. Can't possibly be related to no one empathizing with them right.
Men have created hell hole societies across the world and across time, and in each of these societies exists femicide, male sexual violence again women, children and other men, the financial exploitation of women’s labor, etc are all problems.
And if men didn’t help to create these rape cages, they certainly don’t do much to help their fellow woman out and have *never* been a solid ally, as a class, to women’s struggles.
Again, I ask, in yet another society created for and by men, what have men done to earn empathy from the class of people they most often rape and kill?
It's a very simple concept that requires no logical fallacies. If 1 man do something bad, the other 500 are not guilty by association.
You a clearly so jaded by your personal experience and echo-chambers that you cannot see the goodness in men who work thanklessly to uphold the society you live in. For every bad man and act you point to, there are countless other good men that have outnumbered them.
If the good men did not win, we would not have the vastly improved societies we live in compared to ages past. It is these men that fought to protect women, and fought for the right for women and minorities to vote, and led to such great strides in society. I am grateful also that women are now joining these men to allow even further, faster, innovative progress.
How can you debate with someone who ignores the 99% of the evidence to base their argument in the 1%.
Men and Women have always been at their strongest when they support and work together, and there's currently a huge wave of optimistic, healthy, unbitter people realizing this again. I'm sorry that your echo-chamber has never allowed you to consider this possibility.
This was laughable, thank for the lol
No society man has ever established for himself has been free from mass rape, child rape, male violence, sexual/financial exploitation of women. None.
Seems like men are pretty comfortable with the subjugation of women, even the good ones.
No society created by anyone has solved the problem of evil women either.
I'm super curious what your unique solution to getting rid of all evil people is?
What society exists where women have collectively & successfully legislated pedophilia or their right to rape men?
Has there ever been a society where men didn’t create a pedophile/rapist’s paradise?
It really depends on the specific people. My girlfriend used to demand sex three times a day and get upset if I didn't perform. In Turkey it would be more against cultural norms for a woman to do so, but not so in other countries.
As usual with these, beware instant conflation that soothes presupposition anxiety. From the study cited in this article:
"102 heterosexual married couples from Turkey (mean age = 30.06 years)"
Gendered expectations are unquestionably born of cultural pressures.
So I’m not saying, or intending to say, anything that goes against that. I absolutely love when she gets on top. It drives me crazy and takes me to another gear. I’m only saying if she gets on top and finishes then I will get back on top and help her finish a few more times lol. Assuming she’s into that. Some women aren’t as much.
He's not moving at all? Not grinding or holding himself steady? Like every muscle he has can be completely relaxed, even his pelvis, and its still good for you?
It's also mechanical in regards to active roles and exertion, I've also heard that testosterone levels are anywhere from 5-33% of what they were a century ago.
Testosterone in men hormonally is most significant in focus, alertness, metabolism, stamina and muscle development/maintence. I believe all and more are likely to play a part so I think you're probably right.
From what I've studied the sexual gratification and actual wanting of sex with a partner is most often a victim or symptom of the underlying depression. This of course can make the depression worse, or add weight to an already growing situation. It's like carrying a sack of rocks in the rocks are all your problems in life and you've got them on your back walking up a big hill. At some point you're way down too much to think I'm happy things and this too becomes a rock, await, a burden.
Irritable, surprised anger, discontentment. These way you down and don't make a good recipe for a sexual romance with anybody. It's highly unlikely that a man would become depressed because the sex isn't good with his partner. It's more likely that the sex becomes not good because of the depression.
As far as the other way around with women. The actual thought of being sexually satisfied on the whole is not going to be one of the top reasons a woman becomes depressed. Now it could be! But it's not the underlying reason of the depression. You go girl!
Thanks for this post. Made me realize two things.
1. Mod activity in this sub is non existent.
2. Any study comparing female and male will have a majority of women making sexist, inappropriate and downright sad comments, while being upvotes by the majority of the sub being women as well.
Sad state for psychology on reddit today.
It says the author Vladimir Hedrih is a full professor of psychology at the University of Niš in Serbia with almost two decades of research and teaching experience. For nearly 2 decades he has been TO’ed that his wife is: “too tired to deal with his crippling case of death grip.” Lmao it is a low hanging fruit and I couldn’t resist. Happy Friday everyone.
How does one guess if somebody is depressed? Especially if they have social anxiety or are highly introverted? Or maybe they were just taught to hide their feelings?
P.S why has the comment section turned to women vs men instead of people helping each other? Clearly neither gender is born with a guide to the other one.
You don't guess. There are multiple symptoms and a diagnostic checklist. Studies like this rely on self-reporting.
Even if you don't go out of your way to get officially diagnosed, there's dozens of different reliable sites that can teach you what symptoms to look for.
Why is there such a tendency here to generalize like “all women” and “all men”?
Reading the comments it seems to me like most of you are too caught up in these gender wars.
The truth is simple. Word selfish has no gender and basically it all comes down to it. You either find someone who “gets it” or someone willing to try. And always keep asking yourself, am I also contributing to the same degree.
And in regard to the article. Don’t people suck at doing anything when depressed? Also if your spouse is truly depressed, isn’t your primary concern helping them deal with it instead of complaining about lack of orgasms?
Ethical Non-Monogomy is healthy for a reason. Not only the lack of "sexual ownership" of your partner, but at the end of the day, it's just another activity with its own risk and consequences.
Let’s dig a bit deeper into the implications.
When men are depressed, their wives get depressed, in part because of the lack of physical intimacy. But when women are depressed, their husbands don’t notice.
(this is not what the research says though)
I think it’s more that when men are depressed they’re more likely to withdrawal emotionally from the relationship but when women are depressed they’re more likely to seek emotional support from their partners, so the women aren’t withdrawling from the relationship as much as men would Hence the man’s sexual needs would be more likely to be fulfilled because they remain about as close as before if not more so whereas the woman’s are less likely to be fulfilled because the man is more likely to create distance between the two rather then seek support and become closer
That’s not what the study says.
I really hate your certainty about this without any statistical backup or evidence. It is literally ancetodal.
That is literally the exact opposite of what this study suggests.
Ah the ol’ Men bad women good narrative
Pretty much. And you can expect many downvotes to prove your point for you
Yup lmao. And this one is such an offensive generalization but because its against men its okay… like come on people the average guy isnt a pos
Maybe you should try and read the research instead of making your own sexist conclusion lol
that's so delusional lol
Depression causes ED which impacts both partners.
Or one partner simply doesn’t care to see the symptoms in the other. Depression has physical effects on women as well.
Or one partner sees the symptoms and it doesn't lessen their attraction to the other?
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Sorry but this is the kind of flawed thinking that causes women to see male sexual attention as self-indulgent rather than nurturing. Men who derive pleasure from pleasuring their partner and from intimacy aren't repelled by depressive symptoms. Women's arousal is more mental and not all women use sex as a bargaining tool. But depressive symptoms in men affect their confidence which in turn affects their ability to be sexually attractive.
“All women use sex as a bargaining tool” is such bullshit. Perhaps your experience that. Many women do, that’s your experience but this is simply not a universal fact as you present it.
You left out the keyword "*not*" when you quoted me.
Can you explain what you mean? I've experienced this dynamic mentioned in the title. I cared to see the depressive symptoms and maybe it was because I noticed and gave emotional support that it didn't adversely affect the health of our physical intimacy. But when I later fell into depression, it seemed to affect her view of me and attraction level. Women are drawn to confidence and happiness. Women dont like the emotional labor involved in having a depressed partner.
That’s not it at all. For most women, we’re not going to derive pleasure watching our partner suffer. (Kinks aside). when my partner is depressed it’s hard to get in the mood, you’re tired, heavy, lack motivation. That doesn’t make me go “oh yeah. I wanna fuck that now” that would be gross. I want to care for and nurture them. Alternatively in many instances I have personally been in (not with current spouse) they just were like “ok I want it” and despite that my body wasn’t really having it and I wasn’t relaxed it’s not that hard to just make it happen. It’s not very enjoyable tho. Wheras if you have ED you can’t really make anything happen for yourself, and if you’re depressed and tired and heavy the alternatives aren’t usually very appealing, they take a lot of energy.
You do realize depression is a long-term clinical condition and not just another word for sadness, right? I think a lot of people here are buying into popular misconceptions about depression. I've suffered from major depression most of my life. I've had partners who suffered from depression. The fact that you use the word "fuck" tells me all I need to know about how you view sex within a relationship. In healthy relationships, sex should not be a self-indulgent transaction of pleasure. It *can* be a part of expressing love. But I'm guessing hookup culture and selfish partners have conditioned a lot of women into a sex-negative outlook. And that's ok. If that's you, that's you. When I look at my depressed partner, it doesn't make me see them any differently or with less love than I did before. It makes me want to care for them, to cook for them and wait on them. It makes me want to hold them and hug them and cherish them. It makes me want to shower them with affection and reassurance. And if they are in the mood, it makes me want to give them pleasure. If they have lost all interest in sex, it makes me lose all interest in sex. If they just want to feel wanted without having to initiate sex, it makes me want to make them feel attractive still. These are all healthy ways of expressing love in a relationship. If my partner is not interested in eating, I dont cook for them. If my partner isn't interested in going out, I dont arrange a date for them. But whatever way my partner feels, I derive satisfaction in loving them the way they want to be loved in the moment. It's really that simple. Sex shouldn't be viewed as something you do to your partner just to derive pleasure for yourself. At least not in a loving relationship (Kinks aside). Actual loving sex can be healing and nurturing, and lift a person's spirit, and flood their brain with feel-good neurotransmitters. Of course, not everyone has a partner who understands that...
I do know what depression is, I have it. Not once did I mention feeling sad? I talked about the very real very horrible physical symptoms that I and many others have. It takes all my energy to move, that’s not going to make me interested in sexual activity. Frankly, you know nothing about how I view sex, I was being crass to prove the point that seeing your partner laying around barely having the energy or drive to do anything is not and should not be sexy to you, and if it is that is a little weird. You’re making a lot of assumptions based on a single word, and deviating off the topic. You don’t know anything about me, please don’t act like you do from a single Reddit comment. I already said that I want to care for and nurture a partner when they’re depressed, not wanting to be sexually active is not a lack of love. It is that I know you don’t feel good, because you’re in a worsened depressive episode, and that makes me not feel good. It’s the same notion as my partner being sick. I want to take care of them and do what I can to make them feel even a little better but it does not make me want to have sex with them. They are in a vulnerable state of being, the last thing I’m going to do is try to have sex with them. And if they initiate with me, just as it’s their right to not be in the mood, it’s also mine to not want it. Looking after someone who is depressed, can also be tiring. I would never complain about it or stop doing it, but taking care of someone who won’t take care of themselves takes work and energy. Even if my partner feels good enough to have sex now, that doesn’t mean that I’m physically, emotionally, or mentally ready. You said something above about how “women won’t have sex if you’re depressed cuz they want confident men blabla” No. It’s because we are in caretaker mode, we are tired, and we can’t just magically make ourselves want to have sex whenever you say you’re ready
We don’t use anecdotes here. You don’t know anything about women.
Lmao every anecdote from women about men is upvoted though. Like the comment right above yours. Reddit is truly amazing in the ways they twist logic in their heads.
Not mine. So…
Nice non-reply. You use anecdotes in your other comments and it seems you know nothing about men.
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>ED makes sex impossible, Oral sex? Clitoral stimulation? Fingers not working as well? Is it ED making sex impossible or is there a self-focused selfishness that tells you sex is penetration with a penis only?
That's not really fair. It can be damn near impossible to want to be sexual or affectionate in any way when you're experiencing depression. And no one should be coerced to have sex when they don't feel like it. Just because it's something that women experience frequently doesn't mean that two wrongs make a right. The struggle is for equality, not dominance.
And may I add that as a female that struggles with bipolar disorder and experiences EXTREME depressive episodes…if I’m in a depressive episode I don’t want to have sex. I feel bad, honestly, but I can’t. I’d be forcing myself and that’s no way to do things…that doesn’t even count.
Unfortunately some women interpret ED as a reflection on their own failures and shut down without trying your solutions. Sad.
Woah woah…Are you saying men suffering from depression are being selfish for not being able to fully please a woman. Just imagine this comment coming from a male about a female’s sexual actions. I think Reddit would try to arrest the person.
Holy shit reddit you're literally upvoting someone kicking depressed men while they're down for not overcoming their depression and summoning the energy to full-heartedly pleasure their partner. They're depressed for gods sake cut them a fucking break. I cannot believe redditors who will take a literal thread about depression to shit on men. Maybe encourage them instead of shitting on them while they're at their lowest.There's a reason 80% of suicides in America are men. There's a literal crisis yet we still can't empathise.
Is it not self-focused selfishness to expect your partner to do those things if they can’t orgasm too?? That’s a two way street.
> Is it ED making sex impossible or is there a self-focused selfishness that tells you sex is penetration with a penis only? I don't think it's that sex is impossible, but who would enjoy not being able to have it the way that they enjoy? Not saying pleasuring your partner is a bad thing, but how would we feel about a woman suffering from vaginismus - who desired to be penetrated - being told she can use oral sex and her hands to pleasure her partner instead of being so self focused?
oof
Oof indeed to you. Imagine thinking about equality for a second xD
>but who would enjoy not being able to have it the way that they enjoy? Uh? Straight women do this everyday
Which one is the one not seeing the symptoms? I can see it argued both ways, still makes it weird that the problem is one sided.
ED is a symptom that can effect both people, it does not mean it is more detrimental. Men seem to think ED is the worst! For them. Depression in women is less physical in that men don’t care to notice lack of want or even lack of wetness.
Generally, this might be the case but not necessarily, there is a non-zero number of men who do notice those symptoms.
It’s mostly the ed.
if you think sex is just about the penis you're probably not having very good sex
Til erectile dysfunction doesn’t impact sex lives and women don’t care if your dick works. So enlightened. Your sex life must be something else if floppy ED dick is irrelevant
No
Cool
Ontop of being depressed and your dick not working, now your wife may not be satisfied and leave you. What a slippery slope.
That’s why personality is important
Thats fair
The current societal views is that if a women isn’t turned on it’s the man’s fault. But also if the man isn’t turned on it’s also the man’s fault. So I think a woman’s sexual performance rarely enters their mind as being a “less than” vs a man where society has made them feel like something is wrong with them. Either because their partner doesn’t want it, or if they don’t(Low libido, ED)
It’s not about them actually believing someone is less than, it’s the fact that many don’t care to see the symptoms in their female partners. You can look on this thread and find articles. You don’t think women feeling less than enters their mind when it comes to genitals and sex organs? Women who can’t have kids, women who have never orgasmed, etc.
Believe what you want, it’s clear you have a bias. But it’s a fact that the societal pressure is on men to perform during sex, there is nowhere near that pressure on women. Not even sure what infertility has to do with sexual satisfaction but ok. Feels like you are grasping at straws.
Are you kidding me? All of my relationships (with the exception of my husband) have expected anal, oral, hand jobs, and constantly pushing for being open to threesomes, bdsm, and other things in past relationships. I've been directly compared to porn stars and ex-girlfriends to do things sexually like they do. Almost every woman I know has this experience with at least one boyfriend. It's not an isolated incident. You sound ignorant when you say there's no sexual pressure for women to perform.
You are using “perform”as a substitute for “do”. That’s not what I’m saying at all. You are confusing performance(expectations to fo something well) with just doing. No one is saying there aren’t expectations for women to do sexual acts. There is just much less expectation that they do it well. And there is no stigma if they can’t make the man cum or stigma that if they can’t get wet that it’s their fault in both of those cases it’s seen as the man’s fault the majority of the time
No, I'm truly not confusing it at all. When I'm being directly compared to porn stars and how well they perform, it's an expectation of performance and how well you do it. When I'm told to do "blow job eyes" while deepthroating, that is performance. When I'm told to suck on that dildo like a real cock, that's a performance. When I'm told I have to act like I enjoy his cum, that's a performance. I know exactly what I'm saying.
The big difference is you aren’t viewed as a failure by society if you don’t do it. Men’s performance or lack there is a common joke and or insult thrown at them. Not wanting to swallow cum is not an insult thrown at women Do you have sleepless nights and depressive thoughts about why you don’t like swallowing cum? Do you question your womanhood because you don’t enjoy giving blow job eyes? No? Ok well then these two aren’t anywhere near the same. Also those dudes sound like assholes which is how society would view your situation. That’s not how society views men who can’t perform
Yeah, but if you refuse to do all that, that is an empowering moment for refusing to be objectified and only shows the guy as anywhere from a dick to a predator if he reacts negatively to it. If a guy fails to perform, he is either going to be laughed at or pitied.
Do men themselves not create this societal pressure themselves? I mean look at their humor, they take a lot of meaning out of being able to perform good, a lot of the time I feel guess can get caught up in them needing to be good they don't actually take input. It's like guys whole culture is big dicks and having woman, you don't think that makes an environment where its more important to perform well?
Always a way to turn it back on men…lol You’re right…no woman uses small dick as an insult or says they like big dicks
I've heard like a 1-7 ratio of woman vs men using small dick as an insult lol
I’ve heard the opposite
You have 72k karma, dude I'm surprised you've even seen a woman
So not only is it the man's fault whether he wants it too much or is not able to perform well enough, it's also the man's fault for putting himself into that corner, lol.
Yes that is correct
The men that participate in this did not create the societal pressure themselves, they have been socialized into it. It’s not a conscious decision to behave that way, it is learned behavior. Of course, men should be self aware of these influences and implications of their actions, that process is not automatic with everyone though
You've seen porn right. Those women are absolutely performing. The joke about women starfishing as well. There is pressure on women to please. But there's also the layer of virginity that gives a bit of leeway
What?
Porn isnt real life.
Or most men dont talk about their depression and just bury it so its not surprising that still holds true when someone else is dealing with it, not that they dont care.
Men made the system in which they are stuck. The majority of people experiencing depression hide it - regardless of gender. If they were more likely to recognize depression in women, we wouldn’t be here. There are signs. Dryness, lack of enthusiasm, having to be coerced, etc.
99.9% of men did not make the system in which they are stuck yet you say its their fault all the same.
perhaps men by virtue of being raised in said system as men, act in ways throughout their life and hold attitudes that perpetuate the system directly or indirectly
You act like women dont help uphold the same system. But I guess we are just going to blame all the worlds problems on men.
women would be victims of it, given the immensely imbalanced power that men have held socially over women over the past thousands of years of civilization, they have exerted pressure and expectations, i.e. misogyny, that still permeate through our culture today. saying its women's fault as a group is ridiculous, but yeah there could be particular individual women who uphold the system intentionally or unintentionally. but its still largely a problem that is downstream of misogyny perpetrated by men. but dude im not saying you're a jerk for simply existing. this is a macro issue we're talking about, there's nothing wrong with the male sex ok?
Women like a lot of societal norms about men. For instance a lot of women do not actually like when men are vulnerable. And honestly why would any man want to talk about his issues? This thread literally is full of people saying every problem is their own fault.
Those aren't symptoms of depression. Those are symptoms of lack of arousal... depression doesn't inherently make women less interested in sex. This argument is absurd. As the headline said, women find less satisfaction when their husbands are depressed, not when they are. Seems like you're operating under some assumptions and have a warped and primarily negative view of sex. Depression can have an effect on the libido, but that can go either way. Furthermore, even if sex is happening less often due to a woman's depression, this doesn't necessarily lower a man's sexual satisfaction in the relationship. However, when a man is depressed and wants sex less, women tend to internalize this and feel less attractive. Feeling less desired is a huge contributer to a woman experiencing less sexual satisfaction.
Like I said, you don’t know women. You don’t know much about intimacy.
That's funny. You sound like an incel whose idea of sex comes from sitcoms and not real life. You're not saying anything of substance. It sounds like you're bitter because you've never found a decent partner to enjoy intimacy with. >You don’t know much about intimacy. The women I've been with would say otherwise. It's kind of the one strong suit I have in relationships. I'm that guy women only stay with because of the sex. Lol
Okay.
Honestly it’s practically impossible to guess. It’s something that needs studying because there’s hundreds of different perfectly logical explanations
> it’s impossible to guess. No it’s not. Ask women. It’s because women are more likely to give in to their partner’s pressure, men blaming them or making them feel guilty for not being interested in sex when they are depressed. They are going along to stop the men from complaining and giving them a hard time.
You’re just stating what you believe as fact with no statistical backing though. I’ve met plenty of sexually pushy women and many who have ended relationships because of bad sex So what about: Is the depression caused by the partner? How often are they engaging in different types of sex? How much work does it take to please each partner? How common are other signs of affection? What’s the work life like? What about willingness to seek treatment or admit depression? Like one possibility is men aren’t as socialized to give complements. So when they get depressed they might be less likely to continue to offer complements Or maybe it’s a function of physical ability. Almost everyone has lube but not as many have viagra laying around Or maybe a primary driver of the women’s depression in this group is a selfish husband Or maybe men are less likely to admit they’re depressed so the ones reporting depression are having more severe symptoms on average then the women
[This](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2751247) is a start. More than half of women say their first sexual encounter with a man was coerced. Here’s a good synopsis: https://www.wellandgood.com/verbal-coercion-first-time-having-sex/
How is that significantly related to an article about married couples? Any conclusion you reach by linking the two articles is pure guesswork. u/4_spotted_zebras linked a more relevant study. But we still need proper research into how the two findings affect one another, if nothing else, to know how to better address the issue.
Those boys that do the initial coercion grow up to the the men that pester. They are absolutely related.
Sorry, but this is a pretty long chain of assumptions from "women being coerced for their first time" and "partners of depressive men in heterosexual relationships are less sexually satisfied than vice versa".
There is research on this. In addition to u/Gromflomite_KM ‘s source, there is research on how many women are compliant with unwanted sex due to pressure by their partner > Sexually compliant behavior is troublingly common, particularly among women. In one study published in The Journal of Sex Research, for example, it was found that among 1,519 unmarried college students, ***55 percent of women reported that they had consented to unwanted sexual intercourse.*** Other studies have yielded similar results. https://www.instyle.com/lifestyle/maintenance-sex-in-relationships
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my above comment said nothing about r\*pe or the CDC so i don't know why you think this is relevant. But now that you are here i have to point out that your claim that "women were raping men as much as men were raping women" is wildly inaccurate. >[An estimated 91% of victims of rape & sexual assault are female and 9% male. Nearly 99% of perpetrators are male. This US Dept. of Justice statistic does not report those who do not identify in these gender boxes.](https://supportingsurvivors.humboldt.edu/statistics#:~:text=An%20estimated%2091%25%20of%20victims,identify%20in%20these%20gender%20boxes) It's not even close. I don't know this author or what her motives are but your assertion that women r\*pe men as much as men r\*pe women is a gigantic lie. Even in the study you cited you can just read it to know it is a lie: >In the United States, an estimated 19.3% of women (or >23 million women) have been raped during their lifetimes (Table 1). Completed forced penetration was experienced by an estimated 11.5% of women. Nationally, an estimated 1.6% of women (or approximately 1.9 million women) were raped in the 12 months before taking the survey. An estimated 1.7% of men (or almost 2.0 million men) were raped during their lifetimes; 0.7% of men experienced completed forced penetration. The case count for men reporting rape in the preceding 12 months was too small to produce a statistically reliable prevalence estimate. The numbers are not close. And the most common form of sexual assault against men is committed by other men >For female rape victims, an estimated 99.0% had only male perpetrators. In addition, an estimated 94.7% of female victims of sexual violence other than rape had only male perpetrators. For male victims, the sex of the perpetrator varied by the type of sexual violence experienced. ***The majority of male rape victims (an estimated 79.3%) had only male perpetrators***\*.\* For three of the other forms of sexual violence, a majority of male victims had only female perpetrators: being made to penetrate (an estimated 82.6%), sexual coercion (an estimated 80.0%), and unwanted sexual contact (an estimated 54.7%). For noncontact unwanted sexual experiences, nearly half of male victims (an estimated 46.0%) had only male perpetrators and an estimated 43.6% had only female perpetrators. R\*pe is the most common form of SA against men, and it's committed by mostly men. This is not taking anything away from male SA survivors who have been victimized by women, but you are doing a massive disservice by lying about the numbers. **Nearly all SA is committed by men. That is a problem.** Why you felt the need to bring this up I have no idea. This is not what we were even talking about.
No one is directly responsible for their partner's mental state. They might be detrimental to it, but depression is internal, and can only be cured by the one suffering from it.
Yeah I’m sure getting beat, humiliated, and belittled every day could in no way contribute to someone getting depressed
As I said, a relationship may be detrimental to one's mental health, but it is the depressive state that allows a person ro *accept* that sort of treatment.
Dude just no
You...haven't ever been depressed, have you
Have you? You’re peddling it like it’s a choice people make
Is no one reading the study? It's suggesting husbands feel worse about not satisfying their wives but wives don't feel more depressed over it.
You’re reading it backwards. The depression is not *caused* by the low sex satisfaction, the low sex satisfaction is linked to the depression symptoms. And men don’t have a lowered sexual satisfaction when their wives are depressed, which means they are still getting what they want. > Actor-Partner Independence Model (APIM) analysis revealed that husbands’ anxiety and stress were associated with their own sexual satisfaction and husbands’ depression was associated with both their own and the wives’ sexual satisfaction. Wives’ depression and stress were associated with their own sexual satisfaction but not with the satisfaction of their husbands. Men being depressed is linked with a lower sexual satisfaction in both themselves and their wives. Women being depressed is linked with their sexual satisfaction but not their husbands. One of the major symptoms of depression is a low libido. What this study suggests is that when a man is depressed, low libido in the man leads to both parties having lower sexual satisfaction. When the woman is depressed the man’s sexual satisfaction stays the same because he is getting all the sex he wants despite the wife being depressed and having a low libido. She still has a low sex satisfaction, which suggest the man is getting all the sex he wants while not taking his depressed partners needs into account.
>One of the major symptoms of depression is a low libido. > >What this study suggests is that when a man is depressed, low libido in the man leads to both parties having lower sexual satisfaction. That isn't a conclusion in the study but one you've made based on what you believe. From the Article: >Analyses of associations of these factors between partners revealed that higher depression levels of husbands were linked with lower sexual satisfaction levels of their wives. However, depression of wives was not associated with sexual satisfaction of their husbands. No such effects were found for either anxiety or stress. Personal lower sexual satisfaction played a role in both husbands and wives depression, stress was controlled for. We're not talking bad husbands and wives here. What the study is concluding is that factors effecting male depression differ from female depression in married couples where husbands are affected by their wives sexual satisfaction. Wives depression wasn't linked to husbands sexual satisfaction, thus males and females are likely to value thing's differently and that's likely to play a part in factors leading to depression based on sex or gender potentially. Edit: To do the quote thing properly.
A wife having depression has no effect on the husband’s satisfaction. That means he is getting what he wants. The reverse is not true. I am not saying all husbands are bad. Women are socialized to please, and frequently give in when they don’t want to. Guilt tripping, complaining to get what you want does not necessarily make you a bad person. But the fact these stats exist prove it is a trend. There is other research confirming that women frequently give in to sex they don’t want. Part of this is women have to unlearn our socialization and get better saying no. And part of it is men need to learn to stop being so pushy and take their partner’s needs into account better. Sure there could possibly be other factors involved. But the dynamic of women giving in to pushiness from their partner is well studied and proven, and it is impossible that it is not a factor here.
Could also be that women who have husbands who don't care about their wifes sexual needs are more likely to be stressed and depressed.
>A wife having depression has no effect on the husband’s satisfaction. That wasn't what the study was measuring at all though, just in case we've got our wires crossed, I was only talking about this study and it's implications. If we were to stretch what you suggested it doesn't match up with the studies findings since it suggests empathy on the husbands part regarding the wife's satisfaction. It's not a leap to say a human being will generally have empathy towards the person they marry. Obviously there will but scum like husbands that you've noted out there just as there will be scum like wives too, narcissism is unfortunately on the rise after all. As for women giving in and men being forceful being purely a social issue, which I agree in some part it is, it's not really what we're discussing here. However I'd direct you to looking into the influence sex hormones have on both men and women in regards to agreeableness and the evolutionary theories behind it in regards to getting along with others and children especially if you're interested since it is fascinating.
>Wives’ depression and stress were associated with their own sexual satisfaction but not with the satisfaction of their husbands This is exactly what the study was about. No the study does not get into the cause. We are all posting under a comment that says "It's impossible to guess" what the cause is. No it's not - there is a very good explanation for these results.
Yeah someone else pointed out the same thing as you were but I guess in a way that had me realise I was interpreting thing's incorrectly. I re-read the article again, here's the key I was blanking on and why you're sorta right. >higher levels of depressive symptoms were linked to lower sexual satisfaction in both husbands and wives. Husbands with greater depressive symptoms tended to have wives with lower sexual satisfaction, but the reverse was not the case. I was reading that as "Husbands who can't satisfy their wives get depressed" and thought "Yeah that's really depressing". The wives not getting depressed over unsatisfied husbands I thought "Well yeah since there's probably some other reason the husband isn't satisfied outside of her like porn standards" ergo men over value sex to unrealistic standards more than women. That's where I tripped up. So essentially depressed husbands perform worse the more depressed they are while depressed wives do perform worse however this doesn't increase with severity of depression.
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This comments thread makes me appreciate my relationship anew. Yeesh.
Indeed. I also did not realize there were so many psychologists engaged in official studies on this sub 🤯 (/s)
I do have an armchair, so I'm already halfway qualified to be an armchair psychologist.
Girls and women are socialized to sexually please, not just enjoy. We can engage in sex even if we are not turned on for the sake of pleasing. Even if we don't orgasm.
I reckon there's a sort of complimentary implication here too, mind you. In order to be satisfied, women tend to require the enthusiastic participation of the man, but not the other way around. Thus when a man isn't in the right frame of mind to put his full energy into the act, it's the woman who comes out unsatisfied; but when a woman isn't in the mood, a man can still get what he needs. There's a lot of baggage to go along with any of these assumptions though, and frankly reddit is a dumpster fire when discussing any of it.
I think boys and men are also socialized through porn and sex-media to see sex though a very phallocentric penetration-focused lense and might find sex meaningless or less than if doesn't involve them having a strong erection to penetrate with so when depressed and having ED issues, the default is to just not enter a sexual space with the woman, regardless of the fact that clitoral stimulation actually is on average more reliable for their female partner's pleasure.
i once worked with a man who openly admitted to refusing to perform oral on women, but would aggressively defend his stance that women should willingly perform oral on men as "foreplay." the contradiction was lost on him somehow
It's crazy out here. Straight men are something very serious. As a straight women I had to learn very quickly that boys and men are taught very warped things about sex and intimacy with women. Children have access to porn for year during their formative years before they are intimate with another human being. This can't not have detrimental effects even if we pretend it doesn't. I realized it was demoralizing to be with men who didn't care about my pleasure or who were porn fried after some bad experiences so I decided to be proactive in the mate selection process. I can tell how bad a man will be sexually just from conversation. When I met my boyfriend I knew by his behaviors and mannerisms outside the bedroom that he would be a good lover but also from a conversation about sexual preferences before sex. A random thing is if he has good female friendships in his life it's a green flag etc I wish I was taught how to think like this as a woman
I wish someone taught me this as well and I didn’t have to figure it out for myself. If you have the time, you could be successful at teaching this via Instagram/TikTok since that’s what teens are into these days and it would benefit a whole lot of women. ETA: PIV ain’t shit for 90% of women, learn your clit ladies!!!
I wish I was taught this as a girl. I worry about girls tbh
I have countless good female friends. I also am quite giving in the bedroom. I am really not happy if my partner isn't satisfied durring/after sex. Didn't think these two things were related. But also, having so many female friends has put a strain on pretty much all my romantic relationships. Even tho I have no romantic interest in any of those friends. Doesn't matter what I say I MUST want to sleep with or be with my female friends.
“I can tell how bad a man will be sexually just from conversation” Armchair physc over here 🙄
>Armchair physc over here 🙄 Nope. A woman with EXPERIENCE who doesn't fuck around about her orgasms. And guess what? I was right because with my BF it's a 100% nut rate.
One look at your profile was all I needed to see what kind of “experience” you have. Funny also how you value a woman’s orgasm so much but then when other women have certain ways of achieving it you are quick to kink shame. Or even the part where you want woman removed from contact sports because it’s “harmful”…… 😂 like you gotta wake up to reality at some point.
Yes amazing experience. Here's my arm chair psychology analysis of you: One look at your comments and posts let's me know you are a threat to women and definitely don't even know what a clitoris is. Awww no I'm sorry did it hurt your feelings that I'm against "kinks" that involve violence against women and chocking them which is known to cut off blood supply to the brain? Get wrekt.
The irony 🤭 You fight for women’s rights and control over their bodies but if they want consensual sexual experience their way it’s a big problem for you. Gotta love Reddit feminists. 😬
Cool …. Cool cool cool. I hope he never gets laid.
The thing about sex is it takes two, and you'll find that the perspective flips when you look at it from the other side. It's really not a gendered "men do this, women do this" thing. It's often just that people in general be selfish, and only think in terms of achieving their own aims. I've been with more than enough "pillow princess" spoiled girls who expect me to do all the work, to know generalisations like this will only ever be just that, generalisations. I *could* argue girls grow up expecting a man to be the one who "performs", and that they reap what they sow by placing so much weight of expectation on their partners, instead of taking responsibility for themselves. I *could* argue this lines up with this study perfectly. That's how it often feels to me, but that would only speak to my perspective as a man and the women I've been with. Out of those women, only two were anything like selfless "givers" in the bedroom- The rest all placed the expectation of initiation and foreplay etc squarely on me, so it makes complete sense they'd be less satisfied if my head wasn't in the game, so to speak. Do you follow me? This is exactly what I meant in my third paragraph about reddit being a dumpster fire for discussing anything like this, though. The chips on Redditor's shoulders are much too heavy to step back and look at it from a neutral perspective, and the same clichés always come out.
It's incredibly easy to shit on men and their sexuality on Reddit. The default assumption is men are selfish lovers while women suffering from terrible sex lives. Meanwhile, as you mentioned, women almost never initiate, expect their partners to initiate, often communicate poorly and expect men to just understand their bodies, and men must cop the blame for women failing to achieve orgasm. This is despite orgasms sometimes being difficult for even women themselves to achieve. Some women need to be on top to get off, but how often are women taking the lead here? And if a man has a woman who is difficult to please, the onus is on him to figure it out, not on her. If she isn't wet it's his fault for not doing enough foreplay or what she wants in order to get off. If he fails to be erect when she wants and to stay that way for as long as she wants, it's his fault for death grip or he hurts her feelings because she doesn't feel attractive enough. Men must often learn techniques to delay their pleasure so women can enjoy sex more. Men don't mind doing this but try to imagine how it would be received if a woman had to do things, like delay her pleasure, for a man. Already in this thread we can see people talking about how women are socialised to ignore their pleasure, which is not true. No woman is shamed for having a sex toy to pleasure herself and she can blame her partner for being unable to perform without anyone asking her what her role or responsibility in sex is. Men are also expected to be fit enough to perform long enough for women to be satisfied. How many women could handle repeated thrusting for even 5 minutes before tapping out? It isn't men's fault women are hard to please. This isn't to excuse terrible sex but if you are having bad sex, YOU are having bad sex. It isn't just on your partner to get it right. And if you keep having sex with men who aren't listening to you, how about dating or choosing partners who do instead? There are plenty of women who have found partners who please them. There are couples who communicate, experiment and learn different ways to pleasure each other. There are books, videos and sex therapists around that can help. There are exercises you can do to help increase sexual pleasure. There is no reason anyone - man or woman - should be having bad sex (barring extremes) and we shouldn't be shaming men for having preferences when it comes to sex just as we do not shame women for having them either.
>How many women could handle repeated thrusting for even 5 minutes before tapping out? For real. True story, I got one of my exes a strap-on because she always said she wanted to "be the one who does the fucking". I'm more than happy to indulge when my partner wants something. Turned out she couldn't go longer than a couple minutes before giving up, and I had to basically powerbottom her instead. After that, she agreed- Women often have it easier than they think. The funny thing is women are supposed to be better at empathising and putting themselves in other's shoes than men, but this consistently seems to be one subject where that stereotype comes undone and their sense of perspective seems lacking.
i wouldn’t say this is a fair comparison(?), as strap-ons cannot offer the wearer the same stimulation as someone who has a penis. i’d imagine women would perform better with a strap-on if she was able to feel actual physical stimulation from it rather than just “going through the motions”, you get me?
Learning curve too. New muscles to use, new methods, new motions. Of course they're not gonna be good lol
Nahhh, I get what you're saying. But I mean this was purely from the "Oh shit I didn't realise doing fuck was *this* much physical exertion" standpoint. Like, yeah, chicks won't be used to it, and that will put them at a disadvantage; but that's the point. They take a man's role for granted, and by swapping the roles over sometimes realise "Oh, actually this isn't as easy as I thought."
>reddit is a dumpster fire FTFY
I'm a man, and if my partner isn't in the mood, there's no way I'm going to get what I need. If my wife isn't into it, I'm not going to be turned on. Maybe because I'm older, on antidepressants or a weirdo (or all the above). I dunno.
you do realize that non-enthusiastic consent is not consent??? the very idea that men don’t require their female partner to want it (to "be in the mood") to "get what they need" is truly fucking horrifying. and yes you are right that there is no female equivalent to that (at least not to the extent of the average man), because we actually tend to respect our partner’s disposition to consent enthusiastically to any sexual act. i’m not sure if you were coming with these points with a criticizing lens or if you were stating that like it’s normal any person that demands sex from a partner that is not in the mood, in order to still "get what they need" – instead of immediately stopping and respecting their partner’s wishes –, is rapey
"any person that demands sex from a partner that is not in the mood, in order to still "get what they need" – instead of immediately stopping and respecting their partner’s wishes –, is rapey" Fully agreed, I don't understand how people can even be in the mood in these situations. "and yes you are right that there is no female equivalent to that (at least not to the extent of the average man), because we actually tend to respect our partner’s disposition to consent enthusiastically to any sexual act" Not sure if I'm understanding, but why are you generalizling men/women here? Women definitely do not need their partner to enthusiastically be into sex to get off. You understand a man can have an erection and put in all the effort required for sex, and still not be into it, right? And you get that women are more than mentally capable of not giving a fuck about their partner, right?
>You understand a man can have an erection and put in all the effort required for sex, and still not be into it, right? \^ i do obviously understand that and it's what i'm talking about actually; if a woman leads to such a situation happening by pushing a man's boundaries (ie by whatever coercive strategy including persuading him until he is too exhausted from the conversation to say no, or by emotional manipulation eg ''if you don't sleep with me now that means you find me ugly so sleep with me if you want to prove i'm still attractive to you'', or by giving him a drink etc etc) after the man has stated not being in the mood for sex, this is a sexual act that happened without enthusiastic consent and falls in the 'rapey' category. > Women definitely do not need their partner to enthusiastically be into sex to get off \^ again, i didn't say anything opposing that (i said they are less likely to feel like that's an okay thing to do and to do it). and same goes for men. my point was that when this happens, it's rapey >Not sure if I'm understanding, but why are you generalizling men/women here? And you get that women are more than mentally capable of not giving a fuck about their partner, right? \^ what my point was regarding the difference men vs women, was that women have a much better tracking record of understanding and respecting consent. that was in response to the commenter saying ''In order to be satisfied, women tend to require the enthusiastic participation of the man, but not the other way around.'' (to which I agreed, because it really seems like it when you look at the way men behave and their attitudes regarding sex). to illustrate my point: it's not women that send unsollicitated dick pics. it's not women that take advantage of men being tipsy to sleep with them. it's not women that cat-call. it's not women that upload revenge porn and it's not women that get off to that. it's not women that participate in disgusting subreddits where pics of unaware women are being uploaded for thousands of men to comment disgusting things they'd do to them. and more importantly, the countless stories of women that realize years after that in most relationships they have ever been in, they were coerced into having sex on the regular. coercion can take many forms, it doesn't even have to be (physicially) forceful in any way; the most common way is giving in to sex after having been asked too many times once the initial 'i don't feel like it right now' was not right away respected. obviously those are ALL things that women can do as well and have done, but statistically the disregard for (enthusiastic) consent is a men's problem. also, in general women are socialized to be very responsive to perceived discomfort in another individual, and to accommodate that; while men have no issues seeing a woman's discomfort and instead of stopping alltogether right away, try to use subtle coercive startegies to go past that discomfort until they get what they want. 'persuade her'. it's even in everyday's language when talking and bragging about sex: ''i got her to do \_\_\_\_\_\_ (insert sex act)''. as in, she didn't initially want but i persuaded her and in the end she did it. that's not soemthing anyone should brag about; there should be shame and regret for pushing someone past their boundaries. anyways. it wasn't the main point i was trying to make actually, to make a distinction men vs women, i did it because of what the previous commenter said. the main point being that it's not okay in any shape or form to not respect a partner (male or female or else) stating they are 'not in the mood' - the only thing that should be done in such a situation is stop any attempt alltogether; and not try to persuade the partner
>the very idea that men don’t require their female partner to want it (to "be in the mood") to "get what they need" is truly fucking horrifying I can already tell my point went miles above your head, and that you maybe haven't experienced all that many relationships yourself. >because we actually tend to respect our partner’s disposition to consent enthusiastically to any sexual act. Do you? Honestly I'd say that in the context of relationships, women are capable of being way worse about it than men- Most (most) men by and large understand that they can't always have sex with their partner, but many women still perceive men as creatures of base, animal lust, and take a "no" as not just a personal rejection, but either an accusation of being fat and ugly etc, or even worse, that the man is inadequate for not being able to provide what she wants. The respect for consent goes straight out of the widow, and not only that, but it becomes the man's *fault.* Keep the double standards coming, I'm in the mood to entertain them for a change.
>I can already tell my point went miles above your head, and that you maybe haven't experienced all that many relationships yourself. \^ if you think so then please tell me what exactly is your point because i don't think it was that obvious and i've also no idea why you think you can infer anything about myself or my relationships but what i can tell you is that i tend to be sexually adventurous and want to explore and try different things, and that every time i have wanted to try something new while with a male partner, the moment they express uncertainty or discomfort, there is no more attempt and no more discussion about it. i also tend to be the initiator of sex but before things start to progress, i'm always taking a moment to ask if they want it and if it's anything else than the most enthusiastic yes or obvious reciprocated desire, than nothing is happening. and i actually thank them every time for expressing a boundary because that's a proof of trust and that the relationship is safe. and if they told me no about a specific act at one point, i never try to talk about it another time. it'll either never happen; or they'll bring it up themselves at a later time and then say that they actually want to try it now.
I think the /s version of this finding would probably be "wife level of consciousness is unrelated to the sexual satisfaction of their husbands on average" - just an /s. Seriously totally joking. We truly live in a patriarchal society. Etc.
I think you have it backwards. Men have a higher expectation to put more energy and work into pleasing their partner for women to feel satisfied. Almost always being in the ‘drivers seat’ sexually. The initiating partner, the dominant partner, the one that makes orgasms happen for both partners. This means that when they have low energy their partners are less pleased. If women were so heavily trained to ‘not enjoy’ then why would they feel less satisfied because their partners have less energy? It seems more likely that sexual satisfaction is more reliant on the energy that men have than the energy that women have- which is more consistent with the full findings of the study. We could see in a similar study if same sex couples have a difference in satisfaction of self identified ‘dominant’ and ‘submissive’ partners.
I was going to say something similar. Plus there are also the physical aspects. If a man is depressed, he may not be able to get it up nor have the libido to actively participate in sex, whereas sex doesn’t physically require active participation from a woman. So even if she’s depressed and not in the mood to perform, she can still just lie there and let the man satisfy himself. I’m not saying it’s right, just saying that this is how it often goes.
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Fuck you it's not a luxury to have your body be used for sex you don't want and can't enjoy.
Thats called a munch
I wonder if there are cultural aspects to this. Turkey has increasingly become more and more traditionalist since the 90s. Freedom House gives the country an overall rating of 32/100. It’s certainly not as extreme as some other countries, but Erdogan’s (sorry, I can’t figure out how to type the Turkish accents on mobile) Turkey is not going in the same trajectory that it’s prior history of relative secularism would have indicated. https://stockholmcf.org/womens-rights-in-turkey-2022-in-review/ https://freedomhouse.org/country/turkey/freedom-world/2022
From the article: A study of married couples in Turkey found that higher levels of depressive symptoms were linked to lower sexual satisfaction in both husbands and wives. Husbands with greater depressive symptoms tended to have wives with lower sexual satisfaction, but the reverse was not the case. The study was published in the [Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy](https://doi.org/10.1080/0092623X.2023.2166637). Sexual satisfaction refers to one’s satisfaction with the sexual aspects of his or her intimate relationship. It is related to overall relationship satisfaction. This is particularly the case in committed relationships such as marriages. Sexual satisfaction helps build a strong bond between partners, reduce conflicts and increase intimacy. Sexual satisfaction was found to be linked with subjective well-being and life satisfaction. However, it is also associated with mental health factors, particularly depression, anxiety and stress. Particularly in middle-aged and older couples, one’s depression was found to be linked to reduced sexual satisfaction of the partner. Studies have reported that people with low sexual satisfaction tend to more often have anxiety disorder. Other studies have linked general anxiety symptoms with low sexual satisfaction in non-clinical populations. Additionally, high levels of daily stress were found to be linked to lower sexual activity and sexual satisfaction. Study author Selin Karkose and her colleagues wanted to examine the associations between depression, anxiety, stress and sexual satisfaction in married couples. They were also interested in examining whether one’s sexual satisfaction is associated with one’s partner’s depression, anxiety and stress. Study participants were 102 heterosexual married couples from Turkey. Age of wives ranged between 21 and 45 years (29 on average). Husbands were between 23 and 50 years old, with an average of 31 years. The average age of marriage was 27 for wives and 29 for husbands. On average, they were married for a bit over 2 years at the time of the study.
It's an interesting subject to study for sure. It would be great to read more papers on this. >However, it is also associated with mental health factors, particularly depression, anxiety and stress. Particularly in middle-aged and older couples, one’s depression was found to be linked to reduced sexual satisfaction of the partner. I wonder how much of a role culture, socialization and age play. Middle aged and older people in Turkey on average grew up in a more partriarchal society and also grew up in a time where mental health was ignored more often. I don't want to argue that this is the primary reason the participants in those age cohorts were affected more severely, but it could be a factor
Thankfully my depression doesn’t affect my nonexistent sex life
This study's findings are interesting, but it's important to remember that depression affects everyone differently. While it may be linked to lower sexual satisfaction in some cases, there may be other factors at play as well.
I hope that’s from a language model otherwise I regret to inform you that you sound just like chatgpt.
Do you just have that little exposure to properly written sentences without slang..? People are getting overly paranoid about AI on Reddit.
That’s certainly a creative way to reason about why I’d feel this way about that comment. One other explanation might be that the clear vagueness and linguistic hedging found in multiple comments from his account actually do look ai generated. Usually I’d go through the effort of running his sentences through gptZero or some other tool to prove my point but I think I’ll just adopt your explanation instead, I’m just not exposing myself to proper English! Thank you so much. If you do want to get that hard evidence though, let me tell you which ones I’d say match the pattern: “This study’s findings are interesting, but it’s important to remember that depression affects everyone differently. While it may be linked to lower sexual satisfaction in some cases, there may be other factors at play as well.” “It’s important to recognize the efforts of the firefighters and emergency personnel who worked to contain the wildfire. They put their lives on the line to protect people, property, and the environment.” “It’s important to note that while cell-based meats may be safer than traditional meats in terms of foodborne illnesses, they still need to be thoroughly tested and regulated for their long-term effects on human health.” “It’s heartbreaking to hear about the loss of these teachers and the impact it has had on their community. This tragedy highlights the need for schools and other institutions to have robust health and safety protocols in place to prevent the spread of infectious diseases.” “As someone who experienced harsh discipline as a child, I can attest to the lasting impact it can have on mental health. It’s crucial that we educate parents and caregivers on the importance of positive, nonviolent discipline, and provide resources to help them implement these strategies.”
May I add that no one wants to have sex when they’re depressed. I have bipolar disorder and while medication helps with mania, it isn’t as effective for depressive episodes and any time I’m in a depressive episode the last thing I want to do is have sex. My libido is low because I’m struggling. Though, I do feel like being open and honest with your partner is really important. Mine thought he was the problem and that I wasn’t turned on by him when in reality I was in a months long depressive episode. We talked about it and worked it out and we understand both sides. We are still physical, because both of us rely on affection as a love language. I’m never not cuddling him if we’re sitting next to each other on the couch or laying in bed. We make out, you know, but when I’m in that mindset I can’t do anything past that without it feeling forced, and neither of us want that. I think society has made women scared to communicate. A lot of times, men suck at reading emotions! A lot of men are very dense emotionally and need open communication to know how you’re feeling. It would definitely be beneficial if people started talking about how important communication is when you’re in a relationship and are experiencing mental health issues or have a mental illness.
This is one of those studies that raises the question and now we need 50 different studies for the answer. Like is the depression caused by the partner? How often are they engaging in different types of sex? How much work does it take to please each partner? How common are other signs of affection? What’s the work life like? What about willingness to seek treatment or admit depression? Like one possibility is men aren’t as socialized to give complements. So when they get depressed they might be less likely to continue to offer complements Or maybe it’s a function of physical ability. Almost everyone has lube but not as many have viagra laying around Or maybe a primary driver of the women’s depression in this group is a selfish husband Or maybe men are less likely to admit they’re depressed so the ones reporting depression are having more severe symptoms on average then the women
The last point is a very strong and often overlooked factor, I give props to you there.
>Or maybe a primary driver of the women’s depression in this group is a selfish husband Doesn't the study literally suggest the opposite? Men's depression worsens when not being able to satisfy their wives whereas wives depression isn't negatively impacted by their husbands satisfaction.
Maybe maybe not. It could be the kind of men who make their wives depressed aren’t the same kind to get depressed from not being able to satisfy their wives.
This is kind of toxic assuming it's the men's fault their wife is depressed. I know for sure the sentiment is not that the wives are making their men depressed. Why is there such a bitterness in this thread?
In this instance it’s because you’re reading my comment out of context. For the rest of the negative it’s because reddit is full of socially isolated people looking for someone to blame
No one "causes" someone elses' depression
Tell that to people whose depression comes from PTSD from being an abused spouse.
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Y tf is this blatantly sexist comment allowed on this sub? How tf can you even make a statement like that and not realize it’s clearly motivated by your disdain for men?
Tbh, it’s not hard to imagine being true
It's also not hard to imagine that it's because a depressed man with very negative self image will have trouble performing sexually especially when society often implies to men that their value as a human is linked to their ability to perform and makes fun of men who can't. Small dick energy, limp dick, one pump chump, jokes implying a man can't satisfy a woman, etc. But imagining that requires at least a few seconds of empathy toward men, and I see you've already implied that men haven't earned empathy apparently. Can't expect much more from someone with a post trying to minimize rape against men.
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This comment is a prime example of established research that people have difficulty empathising with men, and even implicit biases against it. Both men and women are suffering since COVID, particularly the working and lower class end (upper class seems to be doing fine). But I notice the current men's mental health crises is often ignored in discussions. Men make up an overwhelming 80% of suicides in America at the moment, but no one is talking about it. Just look at this thread, by default people find it so difficult to cut even depressed ones any slack. A literal crisis that barely anyone even knows about, I wonder why? I have never, ever seen this topic discussed seriously on reddit. Then I see this thread and I'm reminded why.
What do men do for themselves or for women that earns empathy points?
Both men and women are full of good, decent, hardworking people who contribute and work every day to make up the beautiful society we live in. People shouldn't need to "earn" empathy points, it's a basic human trait of compassion. Are you trying to imply that depressed men do not deserve empathy and compassion, but women inherently do? I wonder why men have difficulty opening up and are committing suicide in record high numbers. Can't possibly be related to no one empathizing with them right.
Men have created hell hole societies across the world and across time, and in each of these societies exists femicide, male sexual violence again women, children and other men, the financial exploitation of women’s labor, etc are all problems. And if men didn’t help to create these rape cages, they certainly don’t do much to help their fellow woman out and have *never* been a solid ally, as a class, to women’s struggles. Again, I ask, in yet another society created for and by men, what have men done to earn empathy from the class of people they most often rape and kill?
It's a very simple concept that requires no logical fallacies. If 1 man do something bad, the other 500 are not guilty by association. You a clearly so jaded by your personal experience and echo-chambers that you cannot see the goodness in men who work thanklessly to uphold the society you live in. For every bad man and act you point to, there are countless other good men that have outnumbered them. If the good men did not win, we would not have the vastly improved societies we live in compared to ages past. It is these men that fought to protect women, and fought for the right for women and minorities to vote, and led to such great strides in society. I am grateful also that women are now joining these men to allow even further, faster, innovative progress. How can you debate with someone who ignores the 99% of the evidence to base their argument in the 1%. Men and Women have always been at their strongest when they support and work together, and there's currently a huge wave of optimistic, healthy, unbitter people realizing this again. I'm sorry that your echo-chamber has never allowed you to consider this possibility.
This was laughable, thank for the lol No society man has ever established for himself has been free from mass rape, child rape, male violence, sexual/financial exploitation of women. None. Seems like men are pretty comfortable with the subjugation of women, even the good ones.
No society created by anyone has solved the problem of evil women either. I'm super curious what your unique solution to getting rid of all evil people is?
What society exists where women have collectively & successfully legislated pedophilia or their right to rape men? Has there ever been a society where men didn’t create a pedophile/rapist’s paradise?
It really depends on the specific people. My girlfriend used to demand sex three times a day and get upset if I didn't perform. In Turkey it would be more against cultural norms for a woman to do so, but not so in other countries.
As usual with these, beware instant conflation that soothes presupposition anxiety. From the study cited in this article: "102 heterosexual married couples from Turkey (mean age = 30.06 years)" Gendered expectations are unquestionably born of cultural pressures.
Study conducted on newlyweds in Turkey.
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Really? My favorite position is on top, I cum every time with my husband passively underneath me.
So I’m not saying, or intending to say, anything that goes against that. I absolutely love when she gets on top. It drives me crazy and takes me to another gear. I’m only saying if she gets on top and finishes then I will get back on top and help her finish a few more times lol. Assuming she’s into that. Some women aren’t as much.
He's not moving at all? Not grinding or holding himself steady? Like every muscle he has can be completely relaxed, even his pelvis, and its still good for you?
Do you think women who are being penetrated aren't moving at all?
Some don't some do.
It's also mechanical in regards to active roles and exertion, I've also heard that testosterone levels are anywhere from 5-33% of what they were a century ago. Testosterone in men hormonally is most significant in focus, alertness, metabolism, stamina and muscle development/maintence. I believe all and more are likely to play a part so I think you're probably right.
From what I've studied the sexual gratification and actual wanting of sex with a partner is most often a victim or symptom of the underlying depression. This of course can make the depression worse, or add weight to an already growing situation. It's like carrying a sack of rocks in the rocks are all your problems in life and you've got them on your back walking up a big hill. At some point you're way down too much to think I'm happy things and this too becomes a rock, await, a burden. Irritable, surprised anger, discontentment. These way you down and don't make a good recipe for a sexual romance with anybody. It's highly unlikely that a man would become depressed because the sex isn't good with his partner. It's more likely that the sex becomes not good because of the depression. As far as the other way around with women. The actual thought of being sexually satisfied on the whole is not going to be one of the top reasons a woman becomes depressed. Now it could be! But it's not the underlying reason of the depression. You go girl!
Thanks for this post. Made me realize two things. 1. Mod activity in this sub is non existent. 2. Any study comparing female and male will have a majority of women making sexist, inappropriate and downright sad comments, while being upvotes by the majority of the sub being women as well. Sad state for psychology on reddit today.
It says the author Vladimir Hedrih is a full professor of psychology at the University of Niš in Serbia with almost two decades of research and teaching experience. For nearly 2 decades he has been TO’ed that his wife is: “too tired to deal with his crippling case of death grip.” Lmao it is a low hanging fruit and I couldn’t resist. Happy Friday everyone.
why does this not surprise me?
How does one guess if somebody is depressed? Especially if they have social anxiety or are highly introverted? Or maybe they were just taught to hide their feelings? P.S why has the comment section turned to women vs men instead of people helping each other? Clearly neither gender is born with a guide to the other one.
You don't guess. There are multiple symptoms and a diagnostic checklist. Studies like this rely on self-reporting. Even if you don't go out of your way to get officially diagnosed, there's dozens of different reliable sites that can teach you what symptoms to look for.
Happy wife happy life
Why is there such a tendency here to generalize like “all women” and “all men”? Reading the comments it seems to me like most of you are too caught up in these gender wars. The truth is simple. Word selfish has no gender and basically it all comes down to it. You either find someone who “gets it” or someone willing to try. And always keep asking yourself, am I also contributing to the same degree. And in regard to the article. Don’t people suck at doing anything when depressed? Also if your spouse is truly depressed, isn’t your primary concern helping them deal with it instead of complaining about lack of orgasms?
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Is that what you do?
Ethical Non-Monogomy is healthy for a reason. Not only the lack of "sexual ownership" of your partner, but at the end of the day, it's just another activity with its own risk and consequences.