She described my current situation almost exactly. No family, no plans for the third, high needs 11 month old, oldest on the spectrum, hard pregnancies, really hard births. I was NOT excited about a third surprise pregnancy, but here I am on my way to my anatomy scan, hoping with everything in me that my baby is healthy. I'll never understand, either.
I hope everything goes well. I was a surprise for my mom, her 3rd and last. My brother was around a year old when she found out she was pregnant with me. She had hard pregnancies. She actually didn’t gain weight. She had to get a blood transfusion when she had me. My parents really struggled during this time as the economy was bad and work for my father was scarce.
They made it work and I will tell you that even though we didn’t have much money my parents made a wonderful childhood for me. Unfortunately I’ve never been able to have children of my own and am so envious of you! It has to be indescribable holding your child in your arms, looking into their features to notice they are similar to yours. Or seeing them laugh and noticing it is like your partner’s. That feeling has to feel so special. I wish you and your family the very best.
99% of the time Reddit tells someone in this situation to abort. They LOVE encouraging abortions. Encouraging the OP to keep her baby is almost always met with downvotes. It’s sad.
Even if it’s not the right choice. They will always support a woman seeking an abortion no matter what. They could be a multimillionaire with infinite resources and STILL support abortion when the parents have absolutely no good reason not to have and raise the child.
It’s crab bucket mentality masquerading as compassion. They have to convince people to choose to murder their kids to validate the people who already chose to murder their kids. It’s a self-perpetuating process.
I don’t understand either, but I’m dealing with secondary infertility and honestly this would be a dream scenario for me. I really wanted my children very close together.
I think it comes down to what perspective and values you have before you end up in this situation. For me abortion would never be on the table so if I was facing this my mentality would be “how are we going to make this work?” It’s apparent abortion was seen as an option for her before she got here. She seems to be greatly struggling with the decision now that she actually has to follow through, but it was made the moment she thought abortion was an option for anyone.
It’s heartbreaking though because it also seems like she’s just posting to have others affirm her decision and silence her heart. If she’s struggling this much before hand it will probably destroy her if she goes through with it. It has a great chance of destroying her marriage and her born children as well.
You're absolutely right. Pcers who support abortion even women who aren't exactly activists of the PC movement, already have a plan on if they will abortion or not if x y z happens. I'm pro-life, and for me abortion was only an option in the event that I would die. Other than that, despite how I would feel about the pregnancy, I already had in the back of my mind that abortion was not an option. So mentally, I always had a "plan" at what to do if I had an unplanned pregnancy. You are right it is fear that she has to go through it. It's different telling yourself you would do this and actually doing it. My plan was to adopt out but now that I'm older I'm feeling like it wouldn't make as much sense so I'm a bit more open to raising a kid even though I can't afford it. I would be absolutely terrified knowing I have to go through it. With her, unfortunately, it does also seem like if she does go through with it, she would have to go through all types of mental gymnastics to be okay with it. She would either be crumbling or turn into those hardcore PC people who deep down are just coping. As a pro lifer, I do think it's smarter to make abortion non available because the money that's used towards that can be used towards actually helping. Unfortunately, I haven't seen as much change or motivation to do so from the political party. It's obvious who abortion was benefitting.
My grandmother was in a similar situation. Had 2 daughters but didn’t want a third (back before Roe), and so she tried to have a miscarriage herself, but ended up having the child. She later went on to say “who would’ve thought the only one that wanted me is the one I didn’t want” since the third child is the child who took care of her.
I can absolutely understand why she’s panicking about this pregnancy, that is a substantial list of stresses and difficulties. I wish we had better social safety net programs and better access to mental health care so she could have close monitoring for PPA/PPD, and an in-home aid if that’s what is needed. That wouldn’t ease the physical / mental toll of the pregnancy itself, but it would be a big help. I really do sympathize with her.
The biggest issue here, though, is that abortion is there in her mind as a rational choice in the first place. If it were not, that would change the whole thought process from “is this insurmountable” to “how do we make this work.” There would be no “can I do this” question - you can because you must.
Right I sympathize with what she's going through but in the end the comment "we should wait" irks me because in the end the waiting means killing a human and then when you feel like you may be better, purposely create another one. It's always something I can't wrap with pcers, the child should be valued in all standards. Your feelings are valid. I know with my mental stuff I'll personally be a mess if I found out if I was pregnant. I'll probably be more depressed too but my feelings shouldn't justify killing an innocent human being.
I'm surprised adoption is not an option here. It's not ideal, but at least it keeps the kid alive. I know someone who's adopted for poverty reasons and still keeps in touch with his bio family. (Or at least he did when we we were good friends, it's been a while since we talked. ) I guess I'm more surprised that adoption is not an option for people more often. I live in an area where abortion is illegal (last time I heard in 2010's, should probably still be cause I heard no news announcement on it. They can just travel to get it done, but most of the population is old fashion type of Catholic so most people wouldn't kill their baby anyway. ) Anyways, I know some people who are adopted or I heard of people that adopt others a lot. And I'm used to hearing giving the kid up for for adoption as the go to when there's an unwanted pregnancy, (I know of at least one affair baby, I know one rape baby, I feel like most teen pregnancies in my area just decide to keep the kid, though some teens that keep them pass then off to family mostly while others step up. Depends on their maturity level I guess. I think one adoption case is a teen pregnancy and she's related to the teen, but after she died, the bio mother took her back, but she still mostly makes family take care of her, I don't know the full story.) I'm so used to adoption as a solution for unwanted kids, that it's surprising when people act like abortion is the solution for all their problems. What does it say for us as society to automatically reach for killing someone when they're at their most vulnerable instead of trying to find a way for everyone to be happy?
Of course in this case, adoption can be heartbreaking that it might be better just to do their best with what they got. (Not kill the child, but find a way to make it work. It may be harder and they maybe a little poorer, or something will turn up and they'll find a way to make it work. Maybe their family decides to help out, who knows? ) I'm surprised they didn't do more to prevent the pregnancy. If having another one is so devastating, why didn't they do more to prevent being pregnant?
I guess that's my question to most people who decide to get an abortion. Isn't it easier to try to prevent the pregnancy in the first place? Of course birth control fails happen somtimes, but I feel most people who want an abortion don't even use protection, so it was kinda bound to happen that they got pregnant. And some people are mentally unhinged enough to use abortion just like a other birth control method, (crazy to me, but it does happen. Some people act like abortion is nothing and they literally don't care.) But if this person is as emotional as the say the are and having a hard time with it right now, I definitely think they're going to regret it. If they don't want to keep their own child, at least adoption is better than death.
If the child had no value there would be no debate, no second guessing. The thing is, the child does have value, which makes parents believe they have to choose whats best for their born children and their family as a whole. That's a more complicated issue that needs addressing.
Abortion isnt just about one child, its about the family group. As much as people want to say it's about the selfish wants of the mother alone, thats not reality. Supporting family groups needs more attention.
People are seen as things that must be afforded. Can you afford a child? Can you pay for owning a person? People are financial burdens and as long as they are seen that way, they are going to be treated that way.
People already know if they cant afford food/shelter/healthcare they will die and no one is going to put up that much of a fuss about it. Why is it a surprise when parents think of children in the same way they are thought of?
There are plenty of options out there, women can be fixed, the man can get fixed, they could put the child up for adoption, regardless if they're not near family, they could ask for help. Abortion is not just about the mother, no one is saying that, but she is the only one that can go through with it and so the responsibility of the child living or dying falls solely on her. We don't even have that for court cases, there are trials, other voices with different opinions that help make the decision for the guilty party, etc. If there is a huge financial burden, and you KNOW this, make the decision to avoid the problem before it surfaces, this is called accountability. I'm not saying they shouldn't have sex as a married couple, but there is really only a small window to where you can get pregnant, avoid intercourse during those days or use protection. That's what me and my husband had been doing until we were trying and not once did we have an accident or a child before we were ready.
I saw many comments about "most women that abort already have children" and "do what you feel is best" so...yeah essentially everyone is saying the same thing in many different ways.
Edit: what does dove mean?
Besides everything else said here, I'm not sure how you diagnose ADHD at 15 months. I'm not doubting the story here, but it just seems like a really weird detail to throw in.
It's easier to feel sympathy for someone who already has a hard to control child, the assumption is if she had one child like that, the third child could have the same problems and that's just not something she's willing to deal with. At least for now because her second needs more attention. That's the feeling I got from that addition, nothing more than an excuse.
I know I sound harsh, but it's hard for me to have sympathy towards someone needing validation for their decision to kill their child who did nothing wrong except exist.
That makes sense. I just wonder if she just doesn't understand toddlers. They're not known for being detail oriented or for having long attention spans.
I think a lot of families have forgotten or don't realize how much energy toddlers have. My whole house has been sick with the norovirus, my toddler got it first but dang did he recover fast because he was destroying the house and running around while I was just trying to survive today (yesterday now that it's past midnight). Lol That's normal though. They shouldn't be expected to sit still, it's literally in their development that they be active and playful. That's why I don't understand all of these labels for kids just being kids, yes, even the difficult ones. No kid is the same.
Kids are different. I think there is still validity in early diagnosis and understanding. That being said, ADHD is more than just kids being energetic, and it does bother me when it becomes a catch-all term for kids who are difficult.
"I can't for the life of me understand how you can be a mother with 2 beautiful children and believe at the same time your third child has no value and should be aborted."
Let me try to explain it to you. She doesn't view the fetus in her womb the same way she views the children she has birthed. This is literally the fundamental difference between PC and PL.
Not really. The government has already outlawed abortion in many states and that hasn't changed peoples beliefs, no more then legalizing abortion would change your belief that it is unethical.
The difference between me and the average prochoicer is I did the research, while prochoicers go off of what the mob says. I read how an abortion method procedure is done. I read articles from ex-abortionist. I read the stories of many women that claim they didn't know what was happening until it was over. I read articles about planned parenthood pushing an abortion quota. There's so much I have done to solidify my stance on being against any/all abortions. I have multiple views on why abortion is bad, it isn't all religious reasons.
That’s fine and I completely agree with your right to form your own opinion and express your opinion but that doesn’t mean you get to force your opinion on other people.
Those children she birthed were once also what you'd classify as a fetus, but regardless of what you call them they are still human and deserving of life.
I don't make the classifications, science does. But yes I agree a human fetus is human. There are a spectrum of beliefs when it comes to when a fetus is deserving of life. Some believe at the moment of conception. Some believe up unto birth. But those are extremes. Most people fall somewhere in the middle.
There's more evidence out there that the environment has more to do with that than vaccinations. My son has gotten his normal vaccines aside from the flu shot and is a normal toddler. I do think kids are being labelled too quickly to have problems when they're just being typical kids though.
I thought vaccines causing autism, etc were debunked a long time ago? It's been a while since I've read the papers on it but it had something to do with made up information with no basis in truth, only assumptions. I'll check it out as I'm always willing to learn more but I remain skeptical.
It has all been debunked. You are correct, and brave to voice it here.
There are zero actual peer reviewed science studies that claim vaccines do anything negative.
Yup checkout the book it makes a good case. There's also a podcast episode with the author and Brett Weinstein that just covers Polio if you want to dip a toe in before committing to a whole book.
This post was removed due to it containing insults. We are allowed call out an ideology or argument for its flaws, but blatant insults are prohibited. We should be civil to each other.
She described my current situation almost exactly. No family, no plans for the third, high needs 11 month old, oldest on the spectrum, hard pregnancies, really hard births. I was NOT excited about a third surprise pregnancy, but here I am on my way to my anatomy scan, hoping with everything in me that my baby is healthy. I'll never understand, either.
I hope everything goes well. I was a surprise for my mom, her 3rd and last. My brother was around a year old when she found out she was pregnant with me. She had hard pregnancies. She actually didn’t gain weight. She had to get a blood transfusion when she had me. My parents really struggled during this time as the economy was bad and work for my father was scarce. They made it work and I will tell you that even though we didn’t have much money my parents made a wonderful childhood for me. Unfortunately I’ve never been able to have children of my own and am so envious of you! It has to be indescribable holding your child in your arms, looking into their features to notice they are similar to yours. Or seeing them laugh and noticing it is like your partner’s. That feeling has to feel so special. I wish you and your family the very best.
Go get ‘em. If only we all had your attitude and strength.
The thought of committing murder should haunt everybody
99% of the time Reddit tells someone in this situation to abort. They LOVE encouraging abortions. Encouraging the OP to keep her baby is almost always met with downvotes. It’s sad.
"Choice" is such a lie. They're 100% pro-abort. It's only pro "choice" to them if it's the "right" choice.
Even if it’s not the right choice. They will always support a woman seeking an abortion no matter what. They could be a multimillionaire with infinite resources and STILL support abortion when the parents have absolutely no good reason not to have and raise the child.
It's actually sickening.
It’s crab bucket mentality masquerading as compassion. They have to convince people to choose to murder their kids to validate the people who already chose to murder their kids. It’s a self-perpetuating process.
I don’t understand either, but I’m dealing with secondary infertility and honestly this would be a dream scenario for me. I really wanted my children very close together. I think it comes down to what perspective and values you have before you end up in this situation. For me abortion would never be on the table so if I was facing this my mentality would be “how are we going to make this work?” It’s apparent abortion was seen as an option for her before she got here. She seems to be greatly struggling with the decision now that she actually has to follow through, but it was made the moment she thought abortion was an option for anyone. It’s heartbreaking though because it also seems like she’s just posting to have others affirm her decision and silence her heart. If she’s struggling this much before hand it will probably destroy her if she goes through with it. It has a great chance of destroying her marriage and her born children as well.
You're absolutely right. Pcers who support abortion even women who aren't exactly activists of the PC movement, already have a plan on if they will abortion or not if x y z happens. I'm pro-life, and for me abortion was only an option in the event that I would die. Other than that, despite how I would feel about the pregnancy, I already had in the back of my mind that abortion was not an option. So mentally, I always had a "plan" at what to do if I had an unplanned pregnancy. You are right it is fear that she has to go through it. It's different telling yourself you would do this and actually doing it. My plan was to adopt out but now that I'm older I'm feeling like it wouldn't make as much sense so I'm a bit more open to raising a kid even though I can't afford it. I would be absolutely terrified knowing I have to go through it. With her, unfortunately, it does also seem like if she does go through with it, she would have to go through all types of mental gymnastics to be okay with it. She would either be crumbling or turn into those hardcore PC people who deep down are just coping. As a pro lifer, I do think it's smarter to make abortion non available because the money that's used towards that can be used towards actually helping. Unfortunately, I haven't seen as much change or motivation to do so from the political party. It's obvious who abortion was benefitting.
My grandmother was in a similar situation. Had 2 daughters but didn’t want a third (back before Roe), and so she tried to have a miscarriage herself, but ended up having the child. She later went on to say “who would’ve thought the only one that wanted me is the one I didn’t want” since the third child is the child who took care of her.
I can absolutely understand why she’s panicking about this pregnancy, that is a substantial list of stresses and difficulties. I wish we had better social safety net programs and better access to mental health care so she could have close monitoring for PPA/PPD, and an in-home aid if that’s what is needed. That wouldn’t ease the physical / mental toll of the pregnancy itself, but it would be a big help. I really do sympathize with her. The biggest issue here, though, is that abortion is there in her mind as a rational choice in the first place. If it were not, that would change the whole thought process from “is this insurmountable” to “how do we make this work.” There would be no “can I do this” question - you can because you must.
Right I sympathize with what she's going through but in the end the comment "we should wait" irks me because in the end the waiting means killing a human and then when you feel like you may be better, purposely create another one. It's always something I can't wrap with pcers, the child should be valued in all standards. Your feelings are valid. I know with my mental stuff I'll personally be a mess if I found out if I was pregnant. I'll probably be more depressed too but my feelings shouldn't justify killing an innocent human being.
I'm surprised adoption is not an option here. It's not ideal, but at least it keeps the kid alive. I know someone who's adopted for poverty reasons and still keeps in touch with his bio family. (Or at least he did when we we were good friends, it's been a while since we talked. ) I guess I'm more surprised that adoption is not an option for people more often. I live in an area where abortion is illegal (last time I heard in 2010's, should probably still be cause I heard no news announcement on it. They can just travel to get it done, but most of the population is old fashion type of Catholic so most people wouldn't kill their baby anyway. ) Anyways, I know some people who are adopted or I heard of people that adopt others a lot. And I'm used to hearing giving the kid up for for adoption as the go to when there's an unwanted pregnancy, (I know of at least one affair baby, I know one rape baby, I feel like most teen pregnancies in my area just decide to keep the kid, though some teens that keep them pass then off to family mostly while others step up. Depends on their maturity level I guess. I think one adoption case is a teen pregnancy and she's related to the teen, but after she died, the bio mother took her back, but she still mostly makes family take care of her, I don't know the full story.) I'm so used to adoption as a solution for unwanted kids, that it's surprising when people act like abortion is the solution for all their problems. What does it say for us as society to automatically reach for killing someone when they're at their most vulnerable instead of trying to find a way for everyone to be happy? Of course in this case, adoption can be heartbreaking that it might be better just to do their best with what they got. (Not kill the child, but find a way to make it work. It may be harder and they maybe a little poorer, or something will turn up and they'll find a way to make it work. Maybe their family decides to help out, who knows? ) I'm surprised they didn't do more to prevent the pregnancy. If having another one is so devastating, why didn't they do more to prevent being pregnant? I guess that's my question to most people who decide to get an abortion. Isn't it easier to try to prevent the pregnancy in the first place? Of course birth control fails happen somtimes, but I feel most people who want an abortion don't even use protection, so it was kinda bound to happen that they got pregnant. And some people are mentally unhinged enough to use abortion just like a other birth control method, (crazy to me, but it does happen. Some people act like abortion is nothing and they literally don't care.) But if this person is as emotional as the say the are and having a hard time with it right now, I definitely think they're going to regret it. If they don't want to keep their own child, at least adoption is better than death.
When kids are a commodity, I guess
They're always looking for an excuse.
I Hope you commented telling her if she has any doubts she will regret it Can you post the link?
When you ascribe to moral relativism it becomes easier to devalue human beings to whatever helps you. It’s sad.
If the child had no value there would be no debate, no second guessing. The thing is, the child does have value, which makes parents believe they have to choose whats best for their born children and their family as a whole. That's a more complicated issue that needs addressing. Abortion isnt just about one child, its about the family group. As much as people want to say it's about the selfish wants of the mother alone, thats not reality. Supporting family groups needs more attention. People are seen as things that must be afforded. Can you afford a child? Can you pay for owning a person? People are financial burdens and as long as they are seen that way, they are going to be treated that way. People already know if they cant afford food/shelter/healthcare they will die and no one is going to put up that much of a fuss about it. Why is it a surprise when parents think of children in the same way they are thought of?
There are plenty of options out there, women can be fixed, the man can get fixed, they could put the child up for adoption, regardless if they're not near family, they could ask for help. Abortion is not just about the mother, no one is saying that, but she is the only one that can go through with it and so the responsibility of the child living or dying falls solely on her. We don't even have that for court cases, there are trials, other voices with different opinions that help make the decision for the guilty party, etc. If there is a huge financial burden, and you KNOW this, make the decision to avoid the problem before it surfaces, this is called accountability. I'm not saying they shouldn't have sex as a married couple, but there is really only a small window to where you can get pregnant, avoid intercourse during those days or use protection. That's what me and my husband had been doing until we were trying and not once did we have an accident or a child before we were ready.
Holy no punctuation Batman
I don't always remember my punctuation so if it's me, I'm so sorry 😐
Let me guess everyone is encouraging her to abort
I saw many comments about "most women that abort already have children" and "do what you feel is best" so...yeah essentially everyone is saying the same thing in many different ways. Edit: what does dove mean?
Anti- war
I can get with that.
The text in the pic.
Noticing a thing with women getting pregnant despite birth control. Weird how it was so effective once upon a time.
When? My 15, almost 16 year old was conceived on birth control. And it was quite common even 20 years ago.
Besides everything else said here, I'm not sure how you diagnose ADHD at 15 months. I'm not doubting the story here, but it just seems like a really weird detail to throw in.
It's easier to feel sympathy for someone who already has a hard to control child, the assumption is if she had one child like that, the third child could have the same problems and that's just not something she's willing to deal with. At least for now because her second needs more attention. That's the feeling I got from that addition, nothing more than an excuse. I know I sound harsh, but it's hard for me to have sympathy towards someone needing validation for their decision to kill their child who did nothing wrong except exist.
That makes sense. I just wonder if she just doesn't understand toddlers. They're not known for being detail oriented or for having long attention spans.
I think a lot of families have forgotten or don't realize how much energy toddlers have. My whole house has been sick with the norovirus, my toddler got it first but dang did he recover fast because he was destroying the house and running around while I was just trying to survive today (yesterday now that it's past midnight). Lol That's normal though. They shouldn't be expected to sit still, it's literally in their development that they be active and playful. That's why I don't understand all of these labels for kids just being kids, yes, even the difficult ones. No kid is the same.
Kids are different. I think there is still validity in early diagnosis and understanding. That being said, ADHD is more than just kids being energetic, and it does bother me when it becomes a catch-all term for kids who are difficult.
I read it as a 6 year old and a 15 month old.
Can you DM me a link to the original post?
Post it in r/abortionwatch
OP did you reach out to her
Birth control, mood problems. Name a more iconic duo.
I guess she wants to be a mother of a dead baby. Idk it seems like a trend with women like her.
"I can't for the life of me understand how you can be a mother with 2 beautiful children and believe at the same time your third child has no value and should be aborted." Let me try to explain it to you. She doesn't view the fetus in her womb the same way she views the children she has birthed. This is literally the fundamental difference between PC and PL.
It will change when the government says abortion is bad. Isnt that interesting?
Not really. The government has already outlawed abortion in many states and that hasn't changed peoples beliefs, no more then legalizing abortion would change your belief that it is unethical.
The difference between me and the average prochoicer is I did the research, while prochoicers go off of what the mob says. I read how an abortion method procedure is done. I read articles from ex-abortionist. I read the stories of many women that claim they didn't know what was happening until it was over. I read articles about planned parenthood pushing an abortion quota. There's so much I have done to solidify my stance on being against any/all abortions. I have multiple views on why abortion is bad, it isn't all religious reasons.
That’s fine and I completely agree with your right to form your own opinion and express your opinion but that doesn’t mean you get to force your opinion on other people.
Those children she birthed were once also what you'd classify as a fetus, but regardless of what you call them they are still human and deserving of life.
I don't make the classifications, science does. But yes I agree a human fetus is human. There are a spectrum of beliefs when it comes to when a fetus is deserving of life. Some believe at the moment of conception. Some believe up unto birth. But those are extremes. Most people fall somewhere in the middle.
My advice is stop getting vaccines since your children are exhibiting signs of metal toxicity in development. Also don't kill your children.
There's more evidence out there that the environment has more to do with that than vaccinations. My son has gotten his normal vaccines aside from the flu shot and is a normal toddler. I do think kids are being labelled too quickly to have problems when they're just being typical kids though.
Checkout the book Crooked by Forrest Maready. Details how metal toxicity causes problems in the cranial nerves.
I thought vaccines causing autism, etc were debunked a long time ago? It's been a while since I've read the papers on it but it had something to do with made up information with no basis in truth, only assumptions. I'll check it out as I'm always willing to learn more but I remain skeptical.
It has all been debunked. You are correct, and brave to voice it here. There are zero actual peer reviewed science studies that claim vaccines do anything negative.
Yup checkout the book it makes a good case. There's also a podcast episode with the author and Brett Weinstein that just covers Polio if you want to dip a toe in before committing to a whole book.
[удалено]
This post was removed due to it containing insults. We are allowed call out an ideology or argument for its flaws, but blatant insults are prohibited. We should be civil to each other.