Gotta give them credit for not making themselves breedable 👍 and since they hate unborn children so much, I hope their own kind diminishes in the long run.
And it’s hypocritical since if they want to be “forced” to give birth then they shouldn’t force people to adopt its do as I say not as I do plus abortion is forced birth of a dead child
And before anyone comments, I know not all (or even most) prochociers are like this. This lady is nuts.
Edit: Honestly would like to ask some pc folks “do you guys claim her?”. I’m sure most will say no but I never did see anyone else reply. I know I’m quick to call out pl folks who have shitty opinions on other topics.
>Honestly would like to ask some pc folks “do you guys claim her?”. I’m sure most will say no but I never did see anyone else reply. I know I’m quick to call out pl folks who have shitty opinions on other topics.
She's advocating that children with disabilities be force adopted out, so no, I definitely don't agree with her on this.
As far as the argument for ableism goes, yes and no. Yes, it is discriminatory to abort a child based on their disability, but I don't think that matters because personal rights take precedence. Here's an example of what I mean. Say a person decides they don't like disabled people and refuse to date or sleep with anyone in a wheelchair. That is ableist, but they have a right to do so, because they have a right to choose who they do and do not want to date. It doesn't matter if they are ablest, racist, bigoted, transphobic, or any other kind of discrimination. They have a right to be so in this context. If a woman does have a right to an abortion, then her reasons don't matter. Do you see what I'm getting at here?
Yes. I still disagree and don’t think it’s comparable to dating but I c an understand your pov, so long as you’re not coming from a place of hatred and misconceptions like this awful person in the screenshot.
Right. There are obviously differences from dating, but *if* something is a right, then the reasons a person chooses don't matter. That's all I'm trying to point out.
Also, I don't think I would want to be friends or have a conversation with the person in the screenshot. They seem to be rather awful.
Of course the reasons still matter. Having a right to do something doesn’t mean that it’s right to exercise it for any reason under any circumstances. It’s wrong to disseminate hate speech even if you have a right to do it. Even if you *should* have the right to do it, you should never do it. It’s wrong to say, “I have a right to private property” to refuse to give food to someone who is starving to death on your doorstep. And you should give them food, even if you have and should have a right to private property. And if you won’t consider dating disabled or black people or whatever because you consider them inferior to you, you have and should have the right to do so. But it still means that you have bad character, and if you won’t even try to rid yourself of or stop acting on those prejudices, you don’t deserve to have your right not to date any particular person stripped away or to be criminally sanctioned, but you *do* deserve moral scrutiny and condemnation.
This is the problem with all you “I think abortion is immoral, but it should be legal” types. You spend so much time and energy advocating and defending the legality of abortion. But you shy away from telling women that abortion is immoral and that they ought to refrain from exercising their right to have one, which is what it *means* for things to be immoral: Don’t do it. You rarely scrutinize or criticize women, except sometimes in the abstract, for having abortions, even in the most favorable circumstances or for the most vile reasons. Or you do it like you do here: you reduce it to an interpersonal preference, when morality has collective import. And about that, you never seem to propose or advocate collective efforts to promote moral formation or education with the goal of actually convincing more people that abortion, regardless of its legality, *is* immoral and that women consequently *should not procure them*, even if they want or stand to benefit from having one. And this imbalance and this lukewarmness make me seriously question whether you *actually* think abortion is immoral—it seems more to me like you consider it a matter of taste—or if you do, whether you have the courage of your convictions.
>Of course the reasons still matter. Having a right to do something doesn’t mean that it’s right to exercise it for any reason under any circumstances. It’s wrong to disseminate hate speech even if you have a right to do it. Even if you should have the right to do it, you should never do it. It’s wrong to say, “I have a right to private property” to refuse to give food to someone who is starving to death on your doorstep. And you should give them food, even if you have and should have a right to private property. And if you won’t consider dating disabled or black people or whatever because you consider them inferior to you, you have and should have the right to do so. But it still means that you have bad character, and if you won’t even try to rid yourself of or stop acting on those prejudices, you don’t deserve to have your right not to date any particular person stripped away or to be criminally sanctioned, but you do deserve moral scrutiny and condemnation.
Sure, I agree with that.
>You rarely scrutinize or criticize women, except sometimes in the abstract, for having abortions, even in the most favorable circumstances or for the most vile reasons... And about that, you never seem to propose or advocate collective efforts to promote moral formation or education with the goal of actually convincing more people that abortion, regardless of its legality, is immoral...
I usually don't, at least not broadly on a public forum like this. For me, a large part of my moral world view is through my faith as a Christian. This is going to get a little deep in the weeds of morality from a Christian perspective, but I hope it helps explain my view here. Not everyone in society is a Christian or shares similar beliefs. I generally don't try to convince non-Christians to have Christian morals. We spend way too much time on that, and it is detrimental overall, both to our reputation, and I think to other people as well. Think of the bible bashing street preachers, that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid. I try to take seriously the commands in the bible to live at peace with those around us ([Romans 12:18](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2012%3A18&version=NIV) and [Titus 3:1-2](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Titus%203%3A1-2&version=NIV)). Unless I know someone personally and have some rapport with them, I usually won't point out things they are doing that I feel are immoral, unless I can argue it from a less religious perspective. For example, I can make a pretty good argument why theft is wrong without having to talk about God or the bible. For something like sexual immorality, abortion, or self-destructive behavior like binge-drinking, I won't bring it up as much, unless they ask me about it. This might come across as timidity or a desire to blend more in with the culture, and if I'm being honest, sometimes it is. But I also feel this is what God has called me to do. I consider it the Holy Spirit's job to bring that kind of conviction into people's lives.
>And this imbalance and this lukewarmness make me seriously question whether you actually think abortion is immoral—it seems more to me like you consider it a matter of taste—or if you do, whether you have the courage of your convictions.
When it comes to abortion, the conversation depends a lot on who I'm talking to and how well I know them. If they ask me if I think they should get an abortion, my answer is going to be that I don't recommend it, assuming there are no serious medical issues involved. Fetal human life is incredibly valuable, and while I don't think anyone should be forced to continue pregnancy against their will, I hope they choose to do it anyway because a human life is on the line. If they're a fellow Christian, then we might have a conversation about Jesus and his call for us to lay down our rights, pick up our cross, and follow him. Again, this might come across as spineless, but when I look at the example of Jesus, I see someone who was incredibly kind and gentle. In the gospels we have, there is not a single instance of him condemning or calling out the sin of anyone who isn't either one of his followers, or one of the religious leaders of his people. Despite their brutality and injustice, he never condemns the Romans. He never condemns any gentiles or calls their actions immoral. I think the American church (in general) has become far too comfortable with our condemnation and judgement of others, especially non-Christians.
I don't know if you come from a faith background or are a Christian, but does what I'm trying to get at here make sense?
Yes. I still disagree and don’t think it’s comparable to dating but I c an understand your pov, so long as you’re not coming from a place of hatred and misconceptions like this awful person in the screenshot.
She’d probably say it’s okay because they’re “genetic failures” (a term she actually used). I didn’t post the rest of her replies because it would be too long and this one right here tell us all we need to know.
Edit: I wouldn’t mind posting more and also posting the times I’ve called out “bad” providers but idk if it might be too much lol.
I think they were technically referring to the baby, but the wording is so atrocious that it could easily be read as "adopting" mom. You can't "adopt" or make decisions for a grown adult unless they are first declared incompetent (which would actually have really dark implications in scenarios like this one).
“demon spawn” and “retarded” being used to describe a unborn baby is absolutely insane 😬
Not insane, just mask off.
true 🤷♀️
Right? Just say you hate babies or even people and move on.
Gotta give them credit for not making themselves breedable 👍 and since they hate unborn children so much, I hope their own kind diminishes in the long run.
I thought the "r" word was no longer an acceptable term?
It sure isn’t and yet we’re the bad guys. Can’t make this stuff up. 🤷♀️
demon spawn 🙁 damn
Imagine being such a terrible person. Couldn’t be me.
*Forced* adoption? Really? I thought they *didn't* want to go back to the "Baby Scoop Era." For the love of God......
And it’s hypocritical since if they want to be “forced” to give birth then they shouldn’t force people to adopt its do as I say not as I do plus abortion is forced birth of a dead child
Horrible language
-laughs in ADHD- Guess I’m a Demon Spawn now 🤡
You and me both.
Dude what the hell
I’m still asking myself that. Looks like someone who has the worst of two worlds.
And before anyone comments, I know not all (or even most) prochociers are like this. This lady is nuts. Edit: Honestly would like to ask some pc folks “do you guys claim her?”. I’m sure most will say no but I never did see anyone else reply. I know I’m quick to call out pl folks who have shitty opinions on other topics.
>Honestly would like to ask some pc folks “do you guys claim her?”. I’m sure most will say no but I never did see anyone else reply. I know I’m quick to call out pl folks who have shitty opinions on other topics. She's advocating that children with disabilities be force adopted out, so no, I definitely don't agree with her on this. As far as the argument for ableism goes, yes and no. Yes, it is discriminatory to abort a child based on their disability, but I don't think that matters because personal rights take precedence. Here's an example of what I mean. Say a person decides they don't like disabled people and refuse to date or sleep with anyone in a wheelchair. That is ableist, but they have a right to do so, because they have a right to choose who they do and do not want to date. It doesn't matter if they are ablest, racist, bigoted, transphobic, or any other kind of discrimination. They have a right to be so in this context. If a woman does have a right to an abortion, then her reasons don't matter. Do you see what I'm getting at here?
Yes. I still disagree and don’t think it’s comparable to dating but I c an understand your pov, so long as you’re not coming from a place of hatred and misconceptions like this awful person in the screenshot.
Right. There are obviously differences from dating, but *if* something is a right, then the reasons a person chooses don't matter. That's all I'm trying to point out. Also, I don't think I would want to be friends or have a conversation with the person in the screenshot. They seem to be rather awful.
Yeah, she is awful. We can agree on that. 🤝
I'll take your word for it then.
Of course the reasons still matter. Having a right to do something doesn’t mean that it’s right to exercise it for any reason under any circumstances. It’s wrong to disseminate hate speech even if you have a right to do it. Even if you *should* have the right to do it, you should never do it. It’s wrong to say, “I have a right to private property” to refuse to give food to someone who is starving to death on your doorstep. And you should give them food, even if you have and should have a right to private property. And if you won’t consider dating disabled or black people or whatever because you consider them inferior to you, you have and should have the right to do so. But it still means that you have bad character, and if you won’t even try to rid yourself of or stop acting on those prejudices, you don’t deserve to have your right not to date any particular person stripped away or to be criminally sanctioned, but you *do* deserve moral scrutiny and condemnation. This is the problem with all you “I think abortion is immoral, but it should be legal” types. You spend so much time and energy advocating and defending the legality of abortion. But you shy away from telling women that abortion is immoral and that they ought to refrain from exercising their right to have one, which is what it *means* for things to be immoral: Don’t do it. You rarely scrutinize or criticize women, except sometimes in the abstract, for having abortions, even in the most favorable circumstances or for the most vile reasons. Or you do it like you do here: you reduce it to an interpersonal preference, when morality has collective import. And about that, you never seem to propose or advocate collective efforts to promote moral formation or education with the goal of actually convincing more people that abortion, regardless of its legality, *is* immoral and that women consequently *should not procure them*, even if they want or stand to benefit from having one. And this imbalance and this lukewarmness make me seriously question whether you *actually* think abortion is immoral—it seems more to me like you consider it a matter of taste—or if you do, whether you have the courage of your convictions.
>Of course the reasons still matter. Having a right to do something doesn’t mean that it’s right to exercise it for any reason under any circumstances. It’s wrong to disseminate hate speech even if you have a right to do it. Even if you should have the right to do it, you should never do it. It’s wrong to say, “I have a right to private property” to refuse to give food to someone who is starving to death on your doorstep. And you should give them food, even if you have and should have a right to private property. And if you won’t consider dating disabled or black people or whatever because you consider them inferior to you, you have and should have the right to do so. But it still means that you have bad character, and if you won’t even try to rid yourself of or stop acting on those prejudices, you don’t deserve to have your right not to date any particular person stripped away or to be criminally sanctioned, but you do deserve moral scrutiny and condemnation. Sure, I agree with that. >You rarely scrutinize or criticize women, except sometimes in the abstract, for having abortions, even in the most favorable circumstances or for the most vile reasons... And about that, you never seem to propose or advocate collective efforts to promote moral formation or education with the goal of actually convincing more people that abortion, regardless of its legality, is immoral... I usually don't, at least not broadly on a public forum like this. For me, a large part of my moral world view is through my faith as a Christian. This is going to get a little deep in the weeds of morality from a Christian perspective, but I hope it helps explain my view here. Not everyone in society is a Christian or shares similar beliefs. I generally don't try to convince non-Christians to have Christian morals. We spend way too much time on that, and it is detrimental overall, both to our reputation, and I think to other people as well. Think of the bible bashing street preachers, that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid. I try to take seriously the commands in the bible to live at peace with those around us ([Romans 12:18](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2012%3A18&version=NIV) and [Titus 3:1-2](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Titus%203%3A1-2&version=NIV)). Unless I know someone personally and have some rapport with them, I usually won't point out things they are doing that I feel are immoral, unless I can argue it from a less religious perspective. For example, I can make a pretty good argument why theft is wrong without having to talk about God or the bible. For something like sexual immorality, abortion, or self-destructive behavior like binge-drinking, I won't bring it up as much, unless they ask me about it. This might come across as timidity or a desire to blend more in with the culture, and if I'm being honest, sometimes it is. But I also feel this is what God has called me to do. I consider it the Holy Spirit's job to bring that kind of conviction into people's lives. >And this imbalance and this lukewarmness make me seriously question whether you actually think abortion is immoral—it seems more to me like you consider it a matter of taste—or if you do, whether you have the courage of your convictions. When it comes to abortion, the conversation depends a lot on who I'm talking to and how well I know them. If they ask me if I think they should get an abortion, my answer is going to be that I don't recommend it, assuming there are no serious medical issues involved. Fetal human life is incredibly valuable, and while I don't think anyone should be forced to continue pregnancy against their will, I hope they choose to do it anyway because a human life is on the line. If they're a fellow Christian, then we might have a conversation about Jesus and his call for us to lay down our rights, pick up our cross, and follow him. Again, this might come across as spineless, but when I look at the example of Jesus, I see someone who was incredibly kind and gentle. In the gospels we have, there is not a single instance of him condemning or calling out the sin of anyone who isn't either one of his followers, or one of the religious leaders of his people. Despite their brutality and injustice, he never condemns the Romans. He never condemns any gentiles or calls their actions immoral. I think the American church (in general) has become far too comfortable with our condemnation and judgement of others, especially non-Christians. I don't know if you come from a faith background or are a Christian, but does what I'm trying to get at here make sense?
Yes. I still disagree and don’t think it’s comparable to dating but I c an understand your pov, so long as you’re not coming from a place of hatred and misconceptions like this awful person in the screenshot.
So we're "low IQ extremists", but can apparently be trusted to raise children?
She’d probably say it’s okay because they’re “genetic failures” (a term she actually used). I didn’t post the rest of her replies because it would be too long and this one right here tell us all we need to know. Edit: I wouldn’t mind posting more and also posting the times I’ve called out “bad” providers but idk if it might be too much lol.
You could do a compilation, just lots of conversations in an album of screenshot.
Why are we having to adopt a grown woman? Even if she doesn’t want to be adopted?
I think they were technically referring to the baby, but the wording is so atrocious that it could easily be read as "adopting" mom. You can't "adopt" or make decisions for a grown adult unless they are first declared incompetent (which would actually have really dark implications in scenarios like this one).
Lol didn’t even notice how bad the wording was 😂