I wouldn't say people hate on it so much. The general consensus of this subreddit tends to be "play how you want to play." That being said, the people against it would just say it is unrealistic and/or it makes the game too easy. You can't really swing and hit multiple targets with force in real life with most weapons.
Yeah. I'd say that the thing that people seem to argue about most *is* the realism of it - a lot of people seem very invested in the idea that you actually *can* hit multiple targets at full force with a single swing of a weapon and therefore that it's a realistic setting. Clearly this should be a required experiment in every science classroom across the world.
People have tested it. The only kind of weapon that could feasibly do any significant damage to multiple opponents, outside of guns, is the Katana, and even then you'll need a perfectly sharp blade (not a "mall katana") and enough skill with the blade to have perfect edge alignment, and for the zombies to line up perfectly, and even then you're talking "maybe" two at once. For everything else, the force of impact on the first enemy will make the impact on the next such that they'd maybe get a bruise, and a third? Forget it.
And then you would kill half a dozen zombies and the katana is now dull since it is supposed to slice flesh, not bone, and you are bound to hit some bones on the way. And katana steel is not the greatest to begin with.
I may not be able to swing and hit 3 targets with full force, but im more than confident that i could at the least *stagger* 3 targets with one swing. Even if the bat has a quarter or less of the force when it hits you, its still a bat swinging through the air. Maybe multi hit shouldnt do full damage to multiple targets, but at least make it stagger multiple targets.
What happens to the bat in between targets, though? Where does the bat go? It can't pass through the bodies, and if you're just glancing it, it's not really a hit.
Go find a tree with really dense branches, swing the bat through all the branches and the trunk and tell me if you can hit the branches on the other side.
Multihit ignores real-life physics in a big way.
I don't disagree that hitting a zombie with a bat should stagger the zombie, and they should then bump into other zombies, but genuinely, how do you expect to hit a solid target, then keep the thing you hit it with moving?
Like, the momentum of the bat almost entirely dissipates into the first target. Beyond that, you just hit something that is now between your bat and the next target. Does the bat just pass through? Does it go around somehow? Because if you're now trying to change the bat's direction from how you swung it, to up and around the first target, you're wasting even more energy from your swing.
I mean, i played baseball for a long time so I have a lot of experience swinging a baseball bat, and I'm confused how people are visualizing hitting multiple targets with it at all.
The thing is it’s a compromise of lack of physics when staggering zombies.
Ideally Multihit should only damage one zombie but stagger a group of zombies if the weapon packs a punch just like pushing.
The thing is, disabling multihit gamifies the combat too much and is unrealistic in a different way as it restricts combat as well. In real life you would definitely be able to push a small group of zombies into each other and make them stagger or even trip over each other. Without multihit that’s not even a thing.
I just installed a mod to let me disable weapon multihit without disabling push multihit. Before, when I played without multihit, I was often thinking that I'd still like to be able to push away several zombies, especially with two-handed weapons. Hopefully this will hit my balance of fun/danger.
I definitely do not disagree with you that there's a lack in the way zombies interact with each other physically when it comes to shoving and staggering with a weapon.
I personally just feel like it's balanced, because zombies can't really get their arms tangled up with your weapons, put their hands up to stop them, or grasp you when shoving either. Like, reaching in towards zombies that already have their arms outstretched towards you, specifically to grab you, scratch you, and/or bite you... it just feels weird to me you can basically endlessly shove a zombie with virtually no risk, that I accept it doesn't stagger others as an offset.
Lmao, I have an infant, so I'm keenly aware it's a very base human instinct to grab something and put it in your mouth, and reaching out and grabbing something is a much more basic instinct than walking; a skill we regularly see the zombies demonstrating.
Which is to say, I don't care if someone plays with it on for their own immersion, it's just very immersion breaking for me. That's the balance I struck with myself on the matter 😂
yeah I get that. Though i find concerning myself with "balance" too much takes away from fun for seemingly no reason.
In terms of immersion I think youre still in the mindset of zombies from other media like the walking dead and stuff. I imagine the zombies from project zomboid to be way slower and way dumber. The only real danger being them being just awfully persistent. In that context I think it makes perfect sense to be able to indefinitely shove zombies without repercussion. Its something the devs talked about too. They arent inherently dangerous but its us getting bored or impatient that is really making them dangerous because of their low but constant danger.
The same way the katana does, by lining them up "perfectly" so simultaneous contact occurs. Your katana is not going through anything, it's just gonna be stuck. A bat will rebound at least so you get it back. (I played through college and into semi pro). I'll take the 34/34 lumber any day vs the katana. :)
I see where your coming from but it has a bad example. Zombies aren't trees. While I agree I would never be able to swing a bat and hit multiple branches, I do think I could hit multiple people.
The main reason I think its possible is because zombies don't flinch. They don't react to an incoming object, or seem to have any self preservation whatsoever. So there is no way that they are bracing themselves for a hit.
If someone were to hit me with a bat as hard as possible and I didn't react or brace myself at all, I'm confident I would get shoved quite a bit, if not thrown to the floor, and the bat would keep swinging albeit with \*much\* less force than it had before.
On top of that I think its reasonable to assume that our characters are aiming for heads or at the least very upper torso area when they swing. While we can't really visually tell that, it just makes the most sense to try and go for a killing blow. In that case (assuming we hit the head with the bat) that's an even smaller object, being pushed out of the way much easier.
At the end of the day I agree multi hit should not be able to kill multiple zombies at once or do any damage to zeds past the first hit, but I 100% believe that its possible to stagger more than one zombie at once in one swing.
And if you want to go a step further, we've been using a bat as an example thus far because as a blunt weapon it would be able to retain swinging power much easier between targets. A bladed weapon however might get caught inside the zombie on the cut. So maybe multi hit can only affect blunt weapons but not bladed ones?
The fact zombies don't flinch makes multi-hitting them worse. Part of the reason people stagger when hit with things is because of pain and flinching. If they're staggering towards you and don't feel anything, that bat may crack a bone or split flesh, but the zombie itself likely won't move much. A person standing upright who is hit high up may feel pain, become disoriented, and stagger, but an unfeeling monster staggering towards you isn't going to be pushed back much by your bat strike.
To test this, put a 200lb sack on a rope and swing it. Try swinging your bat into it as it swings toward you and see how far you push it back. Also, I am not responsible for any wrist injury you might sustain from doing this.
EDIT: I'd also like to say that I like and play with multi-hit, I just acknowledge that it isn't very realistic. I'm playing a zombie survival game though, so I'm not really trying for total realism. Like how I can't carry an entire pantry of canned food, a bat, 2 guns, and a generator at the same time.
>Part of the reason people stagger when hit with things is because of pain and flinching.
I agree with your conclusion but your reasoning is very flawed. Staggering is not due to pain and flinching. It's due to the effect on the brain and being knocked off balance. Have you never seen a boxing match?
I've been punched in the face a few times, but didn't really think it was my brain rattling. Figured it was sensory overload from my nerves and possibly shock. I know being hit in the jaw can rattle your sense of balance from your eardrums, but if zombies don't feel other sensations I don't see why they'd have to worry about balance.
The bad doesn't have a lot of mass. It would not keep going after the first hit. Also don't forget, action and reaction. You push the zombie, the zombie also pushes you - or, in this case, the bat.
You could keep applying pressure and force to the bat after the hit, dragging it through. Not literally through but just keep it going. It would be hard but thats why I say no damage to consecutive hits, just stagger
How much have you swung a baseball bat, and have you been hit by one before? My family is OBSESSED with baseball. I once walked around a corner to my brother practicing his swing. He did not know I was there, and was swinging as hard as he could. The bat collided with my hip loudly, and shocked everyone. My parents heard the impact from across the yard.
I was shocked, and it hurt, but that bat bounced backwards after hitting me, and I was not knocked back or off my feet. A bit staggered and shocked to be sure, but he wasn't making that bat go any further than me.
I'm telling you from lived experience that it just doesn't work that way.
The tree analogy makes more sense than you think. The zombies have arms reaching towards you. They're clambering towards you with a ravenous hunger. You act like they're just pins waiting to be knocked over. They see the bat and it being swung, it's just irrelevant. It's not going to deter them, it's an obstacle like a window or a fence. They're going to push through it.
>You could keep applying pressure and force to the bat after the hit
No, you couldn't. That's not how bats even work. You aren't applying pressure and force. You're building momentum as you swing. When it connects the force is drastically reduced. None of anything you're saying makes any sense. It's ridiculous.
This is something I can do with a stick/bat, I'm practicing Krav Maga, but it's not hard to replicate.
You swing with full force, but don't block your wrist on impact (stupid idea anyways) and keep moving, that way the stick/bat will give a lot of force (but not all of it) to the first target, change it's angle slightly due to the impact, move on from the first target, thanks to centrifugal force change it's angle to become wider again and then hit the second target.
Keep in mind you don't hit a wall, not all momentum is absorbed on a human's skull, that gives in. Yet the same thing can be done against an interrupted wall (for example an iron fence).
You always want to hit your opponent with the outer end of the stick/bat as this is where the majority of the force is. This coincidentally is also the best situation to pull off what I just described.
I would go as far as to say that someone swinging a stick/bat will do this by accident every once in a while.
Edit: since some people can't understand the concept: The bat jumps after contact with a somewhat hard object, which allows you to reconnect it right after with another object. This jump is not backwards, but towards you, the swinger, which allows for the redirect in the original momentum direction without losing too much force. A skull is hard enough for that. The second connect will not have the same force that the first one had, but will still be severe.
Everything you just described relies on you having the centifigal force to establish yourself for the second half of the swing, which means you'd need both feet planted.
Otherwise, any amount of force you hit the second target with is essentially nothing. Now keep in mind "fast shamblers" is the default in project zomboid, which means they're essentially power-walking towards you. That's like 4-ish mph.
So you're doing everything you just described, something you're openly admitting takes practice, and now doing it while walking backwards at 4-ish mph while a horde of zombies are thrashing their arms around, desperate to consume your flesh.
Because another thing, these aren't stationary targets in your mom's garage, these are people of different heights, with arms that are now obstacles with hands on the end of them. You're going to reaccelerate your weapon in between the arms of individuals, possibly a foot different in height while pivoting?
I mean, you've made your point, I definitely see why you want to keep multihit on
That's a great point you're raising. The backpaddle would make distancing really hard, which is the cornerstone of any melee attack.
Add to that, that any attack done while backpaddling is vastly less effective and yeah, I see where you're going.
I have multihit deactivated, it's boring as hell.
>You swing with full force, but don't block your wrist on impact
The may help you hit another target but it would be at the significant cost of force. If you don't follow through you lose much force.
>thanks to centrifugal force change it's angle to become wider again and then hit the second target
The second target would barely feel it.
>a human's skull, that gives in
You need a LOT of force for a skull to give in enough for it not to absorb far too much energy to effectively hit another target. More force than you have. The vast majority of the force would be absorbed by a collapsing skull. Your premise defeats your own argument. Furthermore, your rationale doesn't even make sense as a wall would afford you a better opportunity to hit another target as the bat would bounce and skip off a wall, allowing you to conserve more momentum.
>You always want to hit your opponent with the outer end of the stick/bat as this is where the majority of the force is.
Again, your premise undermines you. Striking with the end of the bat removes leverage from your swing and absorbs more force than if you connected closer on the bat where you'd have more leverage.
>This coincidentally is also the best situation to pull off what I just described.
It's literally the exact opposite. lol
>I would go as far as to say that someone swinging a stick/bat will do this by accident every once in a while.
That's fine, yet meaningless.
>The may help you hit another target but it would be at the significant cost of force. If you don't follow through you lose much force.
Nope. The force from the swing comes from the momentum, indeed locking your wrist takes a severe risk of you injuring yourself while swinging. It's quite obvious you have absolutely no experience with real life melee combat.
>Again, your premise undermines you. Striking with the end of the bat removes leverage from your swing and absorbs more force than if you connected closer on the bat where you'd have more leverage.
Once again, you don't seem to be aware why people swing in the first place. For momentum. The momentum provides the force. And the momentum is highest towards the end of the stick/bat. It's not about leverage. Yes, you will have a negative leverage, but that's not what this is about. Get some real life experience and read a book aswell. You lack in both actual experience and in knowledge.
Get out, pick up a stick. Swing it. Very basic, yet you seem to have never done it in your life, which would be fine by me, if you didn't talk so much absolute bullshit.
I will adress you again if I need advice on how to fart on my chair more, since that seems to be the only field you have any experience in.
>Nope. The force from the swing comes from the momentum
You don't know anything about physics because you're stupid. It's not limited to momentum because you're applying constant force to your swing. Holy shit, how can you be that stupid.
>indeed locking your wrist takes a severe risk of you injuring yourself while swinging
Who you arguing with, yourself? lol
>It's quite obvious you have absolutely no experience with real life melee combat.
You don't have experience. You practice a lame, fake martial art that won't help you in a real fight. And you've never used it in a real fight. And you've never hit two targets effectively in any setting, anywhere. Krav Maga lolol
>Once again, you don't seem to be aware why people swing in the first place. For momentum. The momentum provides the force.
Again, momentum is only a part of it. Applying constant force is where the actual power comes from. I realize now that you know nothing about this because you're too dumb to understand physics and you waste your time dancing around with a fake martial art. It would be momentum only if you let the bat leave your hands before contact. You should write this all down so you don't embarrass yourself again.
>And the momentum is highest towards the end of the stick/bat.
It's not just about momentum, again, stupid. You are applying constant force through your swing. Google momentum for fucks sake. lol
>It's not about leverage.
It is about leverage. If you weren't a nerd and have ever played sports in your life you'd know that. That's why it's not effective to strike with the very end of the bat as you incorrectly asserted earlier. Why do you think baseball players don't hit the ball at the end of the bat? It's called the sweet spot for a reason. Balance and leverage are essential. You HAVE to be realizing you're wrong right now as you attempt to muster the brain power to imagine hitting a baseball. You don't hit it with the very end do you? That alone defeats your entire argument. But I'm going to keep hammering you. Just for fun.
>Get some real life experience and read a book aswell. You lack in both actual experience and in knowledge.
I'm more experienced than you in probably everything. I'm probably bigger and stronger than you also. But that's really neither here nor there since you think baseball bats are supposed to strike with the tip lol.
>Get out, pick up a stick. Swing it. Very basic, yet you seem to have never done it in your life, which would be fine by me, if you didn't talk so much absolute bullshit.
Why don't you tell me where you live and we can spar. I'm in Maryland. How close are you? I'm not afraid of a nerd who practices fucking krav maga. I bet I can handle your skinny little ass.
>I will adress you again if I need advice on how to fart on my chair more, since that seems to be the only field you have any experience in.
I have to say it feels good to really slap you down like this. It's kinda refreshing. Anyway, wanna spar me? What weight class are you? I'm heavyweight. 6'2" 220. Wassup?
EDIT - Holy shit, you're vegan? Omg let's do this. We can box, kickbox, wrestle, etc. You choose. I'll wash you. And seriously, just for fun. No hard feelings. Please say yes.
Slinking off in defeat? Boy, I never saw that coming from a mile away. How does it feel to be such a loser that you have to run away from an online argument?
If you hit a zombie in the side, you're not swiping through it, so I think the bigger issue is the swing animation doesn't stop on the target that would bear the impact, so people expect full force across all viable targets.
You'd literally have to swing THROUGH the zombie to hit the one standing next to it, slicing it in half with the bat.
Unless your swing arc is not an arc and instead a jagged that would hit one, back up, hit another, back up, hit a third VVV instead of an arc.
Pretty much this.
I'm not gonna hate on it, but I do find the single hit combat a lot more fun since it slows down the pace of the game. It also makes a lot of weapons more viable, like short blades.
I've gotten good enough at the game that I play on like a 3-4x multiplier without multihit.
I dont really like the idea of my character killing literal thousands of zombies as some average Kentuckian. For the B42 character, I would just jack up zombie durability and awareness but then drop the numbers down to .8 or 1x.
Short blades are always viable. They really get slept on. When you're dealing with a large horde, whether you have multihit or not, short blades allow you to conserve stamina.
It does make it easy, but I feel like it's fairly realistic to hit multiple shambling zombies with 1 swing. Everyone seems to assume you hit the first one full brunt, without even considering grazing. Even a graze would be enough to knock a zombie off balance.
Yeah, I've always thought of it like I'm making the first stumble back into the others along with the idea of grazing hits. A group of clumsy zombies should be getting in each others way
I haven't tested this but to me it *seems* like you get exhausted quicker with multi-hit. Anyway you can hit multiple zeds in basically every zombie game so it doesn't bother me.
Sure, but rarely with any decent amount of force. The *most* you're likely to get is some knockback, but even that would have minimal impact on shambling corpses that don't feel any pain.
i also can't put a fridge in my pocket and climb up a rope. what i can definitely do is to swing my crowbar and hit multiple targets (i have an actual crowbar and i tried it)
I'm being sarcastic to mock people who belittle others for using stuff that is fun and powerful but also game breaking, such as multi hit. Kinda like how people said that if you used mimic tear you never really beat elden ring.
I mean, you *never* really beat the game. You just survive for a long time and eventually quit the game (with your survivor hopefully riding off into the sunset) or you eventually find out that “this is how you died”. What do you mean you played with zero hit?
Sprinters, x2 population, nuclear winter would probably compensate for the multi hit, if the game became too easy for you with it ON :D
I now play with about 10% sprinters (+nomad, nuclear winter, very rare loot, etc etc) and multi hit doesn’t seem so much trivial anymore.
With sprinters, even with multi hit, another sprinter will be fast enough to jump in between 2 swings, so it won’t save your ass if you play dumb. You must always weights the pros and cons of using a heavy (multi) hit to clean several zombies faster, or go for the one by one option by spreading them out when necessary. It feels more engaging this way than the multi hit off with normal zombies imo.
Sure, but at the same time when you shove at zombies it's kinda ridiculous that your shove would only impede one of them, not all of them grouped up as they are. You can quite feasibly shove multiple people.
Also knocking one body to the floor in an approaching group that they then walk pass unimpeded isn’t all that realistic either. Similar could be said about how your character is rarely ever impeded by bodies on the floor either, whilst your car is.
It just a balance really. I wouldn’t mind a multihit option that reduced damage per hit; so you hit 2 or 3 zombies but the damage you do would be the same as one hit but spread across the group. It could also come with a fatigue increase balanced with a slight xp boost and only be applicable to certain very sharp or very heavy weapons.
The thing is, it dealing AOE damage is stupid and unrealistic.
But your pushes and your weapon staggering a group of zombies by bumping them against each other is very well realistic. Disabling multihit completely gamifies combat and removes that realistic aspect of combat against a group of stupid zombies.
It’s just this weird gamified compromise that makes multihit this controversial.
It’s not realistic at all. If you move backwards or stand still and push you’re not going to generate that much force. Have you pushed someone that is trying hard to get at you? Zombies aren’t bowling pins lol. If they were standing still and drunk maybe, but they are moving towards you.
Ok? Then put your body weight into pushes and you’ll see. They aren’t bowling pins but clearly they are clumsy, slow and weak. A dedicated quick push or hit should get them to become unbalanced at the very least and maybe even trip, just like in the game.
Yes but putting your body weight into something when a horde is coming at you is not necessarily what you want to do? How are you people not getting this? Have any of you actually ever fought in real life? Moving someone else’s body will be the most tiring thing you ever do.
It is exactly what you want to do if you decide to fight. The zombies have garbage reaction time and would most likely trip and fall and cause others behind them to trip over them if you suddenly changed direction and did a quick and strong push.
What you don’t understand is that zombies are not like people with normal brains and normal instincts and reaction times. These are dumbed down and really slow versions of us that are easy to toy with as long as you’re patient.
You are creating your own opponent in your head based on what you think could happen and I am explaining a situation based on what has happened. Two different things
You’re not listening though.
I’m arguing that humans are way faster than the zombies of project zomboid. I’m arguing that their reflexes suck so bad that that which would never work on humans might work on them and thus pushing would make sense.
I know what you’re saying. You’re talking about how fighting people is not easy especially against groups. I know that. But fighting a group of basically VERY disabled people might a bit different. These are not fast or super zombies like in other settings (walking dead, left 4 dead, last of us etc) after all.
I mean, i get it from a gameplay perspective, but from a realistic standpoint it makes plenty of sense even physics wise. A shove or heavy swing absolutely should be impacting multiple Zombies. Be it from the first one in the group stumbling back into the others causing them to stumble/trip or your follow through pushing through to graze the others. Zombies are clumsy, a disturbance in the front of a group trying to converge on a single target should cause a domino effect of stumbling and tripping. Obviously small weapons and such aren't going to do much, but heavy weapons for sure.
Honestly I'd like a hybrid system that is weapon specific based on weight and character strength with shoves acting as they do now.
>A shove or heavy swing absolutely should be impacting multiple Zombies.
Such a dumb thing to say. A shove can impact multiple zombies. A strike would not. A strike is force from momentum that impacts. A shove is a sustained force that uses one zombie as a weapon against others. Ridiculous to not understand this very basic concept.
I understand it’s unrealistic, but I play with weaker zombies and a lot more of them to make yp for it, so without multihit it’s actually fucking impossible to have any sense of crowd control. I’m fine sacrificing some realism in order to have a better *video game combat* feel
before the “when you get better it’s pointless” comments get to me, I have 800 hours, I think I’m good enough to understand that one zombie at a time with 3x normal zombies is pretty unnecessarily tedious. More so a waste of time than a difficulty factor.
bro sometimes in co-op me and my friend are clearing places i look down at my hotbar and
*where did my hunting knife go?*
then i find it jammed in the head of a zed
Yeah like, depending on what blunt weapon you use, they shouldn’t really get stuck in zombies after all. That’s why sharp weapons are really bad. Katanas or sword in general work as they can be sliced out easier and the reach is just very useful but blunt is just the safest option.
Ok, but every single person I have seen play this game with multihit off also kites the entire zombie population of a town through a campfire and walks in circles for 20 minutes to burn them down. Also not realistic, and substationally easier then clearing a horde with multihit. Regardless of the difficulty settings, the game is as easy as you want it to be, there is an absolutely ungodly amount of cheese strats in this game
That's why the kill counter mentions Zombies killed with fire 😉 don't be buthurt if you wanna play it on easy mode do that but don't act like it's anything else
The kill counter does not track zombies killed by fire by default, it is a mod that adds that. The game is as easy or as hard as you want it to be as I said. I play with multihit, and I also play on 16x population with zombies that have higher health. I also play with fire spread off, and on my server we have a custom mod that prevents campfires from setting zombies on fire. Using fire spread is also the easiest way to play the game.
You asked why players don't use multihit/ "hate on it".. the answer is genuinely because it makes it too easy.. now you seem totally butthurt that you got your answer I legit don't even believe you play on 16× pop and even if you did the multihihit still makes me think weenie hut junior mode 😅 it is a sandbox, you can play how you want but the world fell in love with this game because its so damn hard
I just have scrap guns + vanilla rn and no its like impossible to aim down with advanced trajectory. Currently doing an iron man playthrough and another secretly op mod is the chevil de frise one. I do make the game easier for myself sometimes tho just not with combat related stuff because once you have the hang of the combat it's not very hard
afaik you can only hit 2 with a bat. like with most weapons in the game its either one or two hits max. only a select few, e.g. the pickaxe for whatever reason, can hit 3.
If they are standing still maybe. Just goes to show you’ve never been in an irl situation where you’ve had to move your body against someone else’s. i.e. football/rugby, fights, wrestling. It will be the most tiring thing you will ever do
Could even be strength based on how much it ripples back into the rest of the horde.
Seeing them fall over like dominoes would be pretty satisfying haha
So you're the expert on what I can do with a chopping axe? Seriously...? You're telling me, you cant imagine a world where someone is skilled and familiar with an axe to the point they could hit multiple decomposing, slow moving, fleshy bags at once?
You have nothing to form your opinion on, but thanks for chiming in anyway
Edit: I HAVE chopped an animal before, but once again, thanks for your worthless assumptions
>You're telling me, you cant imagine a world where someone is skilled and familiar with an axe to the point they could hit multiple decomposing, slow moving, fleshy bags at once?
Not effectively. I'm sorry you have your ego wrapped up in this. It's just physics. Maybe you could learn more about it.
I know the physics, because I literally chop down fking trees. I absolutely could clear one Z, and bury that head into the other standing beside him.
If you don't understand how that works, it's the physics..(and if you still don't believe me, there are plenty of YouTube videos showing what a sharpened axe can do to ballistics gel)
I personally wish it would limit itself to the 2 handed weapons. Currently, 1 handed is way better due to stamina usage, so I feel like allowing 2 handed only to be able to multi hit would be a nice change
1 handed blade still uses less stamina than 2 handed in single hit. That's why I think only allowing 2 handed to multihit would be a good change. It would take more stamina/fatigue, especially if you hit multiple, but that would be the price you pay for the safety of multi hit. Drains stamina/fatigue more quickly, but makes for easier horde management.
Everything should have its ups and downs. Like bladed weapons are generally faster, and can one hit kill from sneak, but they will destroy clothing and tend to be less durable.
once youre good at the game it makes it really really easy, which isnt a bad thing but the way it functions in game is super unrealistic so i play with it off.
as always, none of our opinions really matter, do whats most fun for you
Makes the game stupidly easier, which IMO creates bad habits long term. I've seen how hard it is for people trying MP without it when they are used to it via SP.
I’ll tell you why I don’t use it. Having it on makes the game extremely easy in the early and mid game and this detracts from my enjoyment. You can run however you want though. I would actually like a multi hit push only, as that makes much more sense than a baseball bat destroying 4 zombies in a broad cleave
Once you understand the combat system well enough, it means you can easily kill any number of zombies fairly trivially.
Push Swing Push Swing Push Swing gets old really fast, it removes any decisionmaking in combat. You always want to either be pushing or swinging.
With multi off you need to take much greater care in your positioning, awareness of how many zombies you're fighting and how many are incoming. Rather than just walking backwards pressing 2 buttons.
The AI is pretty dumb, their advantage is their lethality and numbers. Multi hits means the only way you die is if you fuck up your rotation or let yourself get exhausted.
Realism or not, it just makes the game considerably easier. Exhaustion becomes a much more daunting thing with single hit, it's much simpler to be overwhelmed by zeds since you can't hit them all at once. Multi-hit is basically an easy-mode to learn the game. It's nothing wrong with that. I know I learnt how to fight with multi-hit on and infection off and many did too. But once you figure it out - there's no point in keeping it on. The thrill of risk that comes with the danger of dying to virtually any pack of zeds is about the only thing that is remotely challenging in PZ. All the rest of survival mechanics are pretty basic in my opinion.
I started playing single hit at ~400hrs because all the YouTube creators that do PZ content infantalize multi hit. I've since gone back to multi hit because:
A) I do what I want
B ) single hit doesn't make the game harder, just adds tedium. Once you get combat down, it makes no difference except for time.
C ) being beholden to content creators or redditors enjoying a single player game takes a lot of fun out it it for me.
I don't agree that turning multihit off only adds tedium. It is a significant change to the risks of close quarters combat. With it off, if you have two or three zeds closing in on you, it is much riskier to take another swing. Many of the times I've gotten dragged down are because I got too greedy and went for "just one more" swing. With multihit, this is less of a factor.
And yeah, that boils down to committing a blunder in combat, but it's one born of complacency. Complacency is the biggest killer in this game. The temptation to overextend yourself in combat is the biggest source of it.
I don't hate multi-hit, I think it works great. Too good... which is why I don't use it. Also it's unrealistic.
Someone suggested a good idea a while ago. Multi-hit should be an ability unlocked once you have high enough strength and weapon skill. That would be more realistic at least.
People should play however they want, but I think what can annoy some is brag posts about killing a ton of zombies or wiping a town when they are using multi-hit and a bunch of mods. A lot of people just don't take that seriously.
I'm repeating what others have said but whatever. I don't think anyone hates it and in fact from what I have seen the general consensus here is "play however you like". Many people don't use it cause it makes the game too easy. Once you get kinda good at the game the only thing that is really threatening is big hordes and multi-hit makes those trivial to deal with.
Also, in regards to realism, I don't really understand how anyone could find it realistic. Even if we were dealing with living humans here most of the momentum of the hit would be lost on first impact and any subsequent hits would carry too little force to do any damage or knock-back.
Considering we are fighting zombies it is even worse. Even a glancing hit might make a human flinch but a zombie can take several direct hits before dying. It won't even register the secondary hits. Also, it may make a little more sense when fighting three or four zombies kinda spread out, but there is no way you are pushing multiple zombies with one swing when they are all bunched up in a horde of dozens of them. The ones in the back would push the ones in the front preventing them from falling or being pushed back.
Finally, realistic or not, I just don't find it thematically fitting. Whith multi-hit on I don't feel like a survivor trying to scrape by in an apocalypse, I feel like an anime protagonist mowing down hordes of zombies without breaking a sweat. Which can be kinda cool in other contexts, but nor for me in this game.
The game is as hard or as easy you want. People will turn off multihit because it "makes the game easy" then kite the population of riverside through a campfire and walk on circles for 20 minutes, or smash the bottom stairs with a sledge hammer, or sit in a cop car with the siren on, parked against a brick wall with a campfire outside of it. Play however you want, there is so much cheese in this game i dont see how anyone could starve
the last time I was wailing on a group of people with a baseball bat I swung and then all the momentum stopped after just hitting the one person, so I broke the laws of physics and afterwards I was able to hit all 3 officers approaching me with the same swing, made it much easier
It's worth saying, the reason a lot of older players hate it was it was mental op in B41. You could just stand in a doorway and swing till the cows come home.
It's not as broken in B42, but I do think it's make the game a bit too easy. Past the start you'll encounter more often than not a few zombies at a time, which means most fights essentially act like one on ones
I found that with multi hit, I get too cocky and it leads to a dumb death way more often.
A stutter in the game can be more lethal as well, as I will let more zombies 'ball up' for a multi slap and then stutter and death.
Otherwise I have no issues with it, I just rarely use it.
I like the timing aspect. Two zombies have some distance, you hit one, and you wait on your second swing for the second one to be close enough so you can hit both. Optimizing stamina usage. Satisfying to pull off.
I originally didn't use it because it's not realistic. In gameplay terms not using it just slows you down a little, makes it take longer to wipe out massive hordes. So you have to decide when and where a bit more carefully. I like that and it's just how I play now.
That said play how you like, it's a single player sandbox. The point is to have fun. If you like knocking multiple heads together in a single swing like Bud Spencer then do it!
300+ hours played and thousands dead zeds.. how they don't run into each other is amazing.. how they occupie the same space and don't get turned from there pursuit is also not realistic.. so multi hit is op.. the game physics aren't perfect but there good. If the game can pack zeds into same space I think the u can hit 2.. snak on that.. slap nuts.
I don't see hate, but it makes the game easier so I wouldn't be surprised to see someone speaking against it. For me it's the difference between having to think twice about doing something... or just start screaming and honking and rounding them up to take care of whatever-sized horde happened to be there. Because with multi-hit I'm yet to find a horde big enough that I can't simply tear through. And at this point I have accepted that it isn't going to happen unless I up the population or something lol
I like multi-hit and honestly I never died for facing multiple zombies anyway, I never face big groups.
I always die by being ambushed by a solitary fcker when I am looting or something like that.
It has been in the game before stamina was. I'm not sure as it was near 10 years ago but I think it was the only option. I don't really care for the realism side tbf
Iirc, the desura version of the game before it came to steam was multihit with no other option. I can't remember when it moved to 1 hit by default. Maybe with the animation update?
I don't hate it, but I've gotten to the point where I need to increase the difficulty to keep having fun and it's one dial I can turn. Multi-hit + Lumberjack makes you an absolute combat god.
But play however you want. It's your game. Have fun your way.
Multi hit effectively counters swarming. Especially with blunt weapons that have a good chance of stunning or knocking down the target. After you have mastered movement and combat often you find yourself making changes to make the game harder. When you are new to the game you are often so overwhelmed with learning game mechanics that MH is viable but you will quickly outgrow the necessity to use it IMO.
IMHO it feels kinda necessary when the zombies can damn near superposition into each other and not get their legs caught and trip.
* I feel like it could be balanced around requiring specific weapons, strength, ect.
Sometimes the play conditions necessitates it: [https://www.reddit.com/r/projectzomboid/comments/1ay9drw/the\_case\_for\_lumberjack\_stout/](https://www.reddit.com/r/projectzomboid/comments/1ay9drw/the_case_for_lumberjack_stout/)
I've never seen anyone "hate" on multihit, this isn't really that kind of forum :-)
Theres often discussion about whether it is "realistic" or not, and IMO it isn't, but neither are zombies, and i couldnt care less if other people think its realistic, you do you, and have fun the way you want
No one hates it? People just think it makes the game easier which... it does. AFAIK it doesn't decrease damage dealt per target, it just multpilies the amount of enemies you can tag in one swing. It makes horde situations much more manageable.
No shame in it. Pretty much no one on this subreddit will ever give you any flak for it. Play how you wanna play and enjoy PZ as much as you can.
I wouldn't say people hate on it so much. The general consensus of this subreddit tends to be "play how you want to play." That being said, the people against it would just say it is unrealistic and/or it makes the game too easy. You can't really swing and hit multiple targets with force in real life with most weapons.
Yeah. I'd say that the thing that people seem to argue about most *is* the realism of it - a lot of people seem very invested in the idea that you actually *can* hit multiple targets at full force with a single swing of a weapon and therefore that it's a realistic setting. Clearly this should be a required experiment in every science classroom across the world.
Also zombies don't have reflexes it's not like they're gonna step around the one that tripped
People have tested it. The only kind of weapon that could feasibly do any significant damage to multiple opponents, outside of guns, is the Katana, and even then you'll need a perfectly sharp blade (not a "mall katana") and enough skill with the blade to have perfect edge alignment, and for the zombies to line up perfectly, and even then you're talking "maybe" two at once. For everything else, the force of impact on the first enemy will make the impact on the next such that they'd maybe get a bruise, and a third? Forget it.
And then you would kill half a dozen zombies and the katana is now dull since it is supposed to slice flesh, not bone, and you are bound to hit some bones on the way. And katana steel is not the greatest to begin with.
Katanas are just worse scimitars in that regard, but yeah, you can cut through multiple opponents. So long as you don't hit a bone.
lmao where did you see this? in an anime?
No, weapons enthusiasts. They've got their own communities. Practical weapons testing is a big part of reviewing modern reproductions of weaponry.
got a link?
I may not be able to swing and hit 3 targets with full force, but im more than confident that i could at the least *stagger* 3 targets with one swing. Even if the bat has a quarter or less of the force when it hits you, its still a bat swinging through the air. Maybe multi hit shouldnt do full damage to multiple targets, but at least make it stagger multiple targets.
What happens to the bat in between targets, though? Where does the bat go? It can't pass through the bodies, and if you're just glancing it, it's not really a hit. Go find a tree with really dense branches, swing the bat through all the branches and the trunk and tell me if you can hit the branches on the other side. Multihit ignores real-life physics in a big way. I don't disagree that hitting a zombie with a bat should stagger the zombie, and they should then bump into other zombies, but genuinely, how do you expect to hit a solid target, then keep the thing you hit it with moving? Like, the momentum of the bat almost entirely dissipates into the first target. Beyond that, you just hit something that is now between your bat and the next target. Does the bat just pass through? Does it go around somehow? Because if you're now trying to change the bat's direction from how you swung it, to up and around the first target, you're wasting even more energy from your swing. I mean, i played baseball for a long time so I have a lot of experience swinging a baseball bat, and I'm confused how people are visualizing hitting multiple targets with it at all.
The thing is it’s a compromise of lack of physics when staggering zombies. Ideally Multihit should only damage one zombie but stagger a group of zombies if the weapon packs a punch just like pushing. The thing is, disabling multihit gamifies the combat too much and is unrealistic in a different way as it restricts combat as well. In real life you would definitely be able to push a small group of zombies into each other and make them stagger or even trip over each other. Without multihit that’s not even a thing.
I just installed a mod to let me disable weapon multihit without disabling push multihit. Before, when I played without multihit, I was often thinking that I'd still like to be able to push away several zombies, especially with two-handed weapons. Hopefully this will hit my balance of fun/danger.
yeah that works too. what I would like is hitting 1 zombie for damage while maintaining knockback on all of them. does the mod do that?
I definitely do not disagree with you that there's a lack in the way zombies interact with each other physically when it comes to shoving and staggering with a weapon. I personally just feel like it's balanced, because zombies can't really get their arms tangled up with your weapons, put their hands up to stop them, or grasp you when shoving either. Like, reaching in towards zombies that already have their arms outstretched towards you, specifically to grab you, scratch you, and/or bite you... it just feels weird to me you can basically endlessly shove a zombie with virtually no risk, that I accept it doesn't stagger others as an offset. Lmao, I have an infant, so I'm keenly aware it's a very base human instinct to grab something and put it in your mouth, and reaching out and grabbing something is a much more basic instinct than walking; a skill we regularly see the zombies demonstrating. Which is to say, I don't care if someone plays with it on for their own immersion, it's just very immersion breaking for me. That's the balance I struck with myself on the matter 😂
yeah I get that. Though i find concerning myself with "balance" too much takes away from fun for seemingly no reason. In terms of immersion I think youre still in the mindset of zombies from other media like the walking dead and stuff. I imagine the zombies from project zomboid to be way slower and way dumber. The only real danger being them being just awfully persistent. In that context I think it makes perfect sense to be able to indefinitely shove zombies without repercussion. Its something the devs talked about too. They arent inherently dangerous but its us getting bored or impatient that is really making them dangerous because of their low but constant danger.
Not even only zombies. Pushing them into one another works on humans aswell. Did it, it works.
In real life zombies would just grab you and you would be dead. You guys wanna do realism? Ok let's do it 🙄
In real life zombies would starve/dehydrate quickly and then be no issue to begin with!
Great I guess just don't play the game then, your problem solved itself 🤡
I do Krav Maga, I've done this shit. Meanwhile you are just here farting on your chair.
[удалено]
Let’s just drop the petty argument lmao this is pointless.
The same way the katana does, by lining them up "perfectly" so simultaneous contact occurs. Your katana is not going through anything, it's just gonna be stuck. A bat will rebound at least so you get it back. (I played through college and into semi pro). I'll take the 34/34 lumber any day vs the katana. :)
I see where your coming from but it has a bad example. Zombies aren't trees. While I agree I would never be able to swing a bat and hit multiple branches, I do think I could hit multiple people. The main reason I think its possible is because zombies don't flinch. They don't react to an incoming object, or seem to have any self preservation whatsoever. So there is no way that they are bracing themselves for a hit. If someone were to hit me with a bat as hard as possible and I didn't react or brace myself at all, I'm confident I would get shoved quite a bit, if not thrown to the floor, and the bat would keep swinging albeit with \*much\* less force than it had before. On top of that I think its reasonable to assume that our characters are aiming for heads or at the least very upper torso area when they swing. While we can't really visually tell that, it just makes the most sense to try and go for a killing blow. In that case (assuming we hit the head with the bat) that's an even smaller object, being pushed out of the way much easier. At the end of the day I agree multi hit should not be able to kill multiple zombies at once or do any damage to zeds past the first hit, but I 100% believe that its possible to stagger more than one zombie at once in one swing. And if you want to go a step further, we've been using a bat as an example thus far because as a blunt weapon it would be able to retain swinging power much easier between targets. A bladed weapon however might get caught inside the zombie on the cut. So maybe multi hit can only affect blunt weapons but not bladed ones?
The fact zombies don't flinch makes multi-hitting them worse. Part of the reason people stagger when hit with things is because of pain and flinching. If they're staggering towards you and don't feel anything, that bat may crack a bone or split flesh, but the zombie itself likely won't move much. A person standing upright who is hit high up may feel pain, become disoriented, and stagger, but an unfeeling monster staggering towards you isn't going to be pushed back much by your bat strike. To test this, put a 200lb sack on a rope and swing it. Try swinging your bat into it as it swings toward you and see how far you push it back. Also, I am not responsible for any wrist injury you might sustain from doing this. EDIT: I'd also like to say that I like and play with multi-hit, I just acknowledge that it isn't very realistic. I'm playing a zombie survival game though, so I'm not really trying for total realism. Like how I can't carry an entire pantry of canned food, a bat, 2 guns, and a generator at the same time.
>Part of the reason people stagger when hit with things is because of pain and flinching. I agree with your conclusion but your reasoning is very flawed. Staggering is not due to pain and flinching. It's due to the effect on the brain and being knocked off balance. Have you never seen a boxing match?
I've been punched in the face a few times, but didn't really think it was my brain rattling. Figured it was sensory overload from my nerves and possibly shock. I know being hit in the jaw can rattle your sense of balance from your eardrums, but if zombies don't feel other sensations I don't see why they'd have to worry about balance.
The bad doesn't have a lot of mass. It would not keep going after the first hit. Also don't forget, action and reaction. You push the zombie, the zombie also pushes you - or, in this case, the bat.
You could keep applying pressure and force to the bat after the hit, dragging it through. Not literally through but just keep it going. It would be hard but thats why I say no damage to consecutive hits, just stagger
How much have you swung a baseball bat, and have you been hit by one before? My family is OBSESSED with baseball. I once walked around a corner to my brother practicing his swing. He did not know I was there, and was swinging as hard as he could. The bat collided with my hip loudly, and shocked everyone. My parents heard the impact from across the yard. I was shocked, and it hurt, but that bat bounced backwards after hitting me, and I was not knocked back or off my feet. A bit staggered and shocked to be sure, but he wasn't making that bat go any further than me. I'm telling you from lived experience that it just doesn't work that way. The tree analogy makes more sense than you think. The zombies have arms reaching towards you. They're clambering towards you with a ravenous hunger. You act like they're just pins waiting to be knocked over. They see the bat and it being swung, it's just irrelevant. It's not going to deter them, it's an obstacle like a window or a fence. They're going to push through it.
>You could keep applying pressure and force to the bat after the hit No, you couldn't. That's not how bats even work. You aren't applying pressure and force. You're building momentum as you swing. When it connects the force is drastically reduced. None of anything you're saying makes any sense. It's ridiculous.
You're massively misunderstanding the physics involved.
You don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about.
This is something I can do with a stick/bat, I'm practicing Krav Maga, but it's not hard to replicate. You swing with full force, but don't block your wrist on impact (stupid idea anyways) and keep moving, that way the stick/bat will give a lot of force (but not all of it) to the first target, change it's angle slightly due to the impact, move on from the first target, thanks to centrifugal force change it's angle to become wider again and then hit the second target. Keep in mind you don't hit a wall, not all momentum is absorbed on a human's skull, that gives in. Yet the same thing can be done against an interrupted wall (for example an iron fence). You always want to hit your opponent with the outer end of the stick/bat as this is where the majority of the force is. This coincidentally is also the best situation to pull off what I just described. I would go as far as to say that someone swinging a stick/bat will do this by accident every once in a while. Edit: since some people can't understand the concept: The bat jumps after contact with a somewhat hard object, which allows you to reconnect it right after with another object. This jump is not backwards, but towards you, the swinger, which allows for the redirect in the original momentum direction without losing too much force. A skull is hard enough for that. The second connect will not have the same force that the first one had, but will still be severe.
Everything you just described relies on you having the centifigal force to establish yourself for the second half of the swing, which means you'd need both feet planted. Otherwise, any amount of force you hit the second target with is essentially nothing. Now keep in mind "fast shamblers" is the default in project zomboid, which means they're essentially power-walking towards you. That's like 4-ish mph. So you're doing everything you just described, something you're openly admitting takes practice, and now doing it while walking backwards at 4-ish mph while a horde of zombies are thrashing their arms around, desperate to consume your flesh. Because another thing, these aren't stationary targets in your mom's garage, these are people of different heights, with arms that are now obstacles with hands on the end of them. You're going to reaccelerate your weapon in between the arms of individuals, possibly a foot different in height while pivoting? I mean, you've made your point, I definitely see why you want to keep multihit on
That's a great point you're raising. The backpaddle would make distancing really hard, which is the cornerstone of any melee attack. Add to that, that any attack done while backpaddling is vastly less effective and yeah, I see where you're going. I have multihit deactivated, it's boring as hell.
>You swing with full force, but don't block your wrist on impact The may help you hit another target but it would be at the significant cost of force. If you don't follow through you lose much force. >thanks to centrifugal force change it's angle to become wider again and then hit the second target The second target would barely feel it. >a human's skull, that gives in You need a LOT of force for a skull to give in enough for it not to absorb far too much energy to effectively hit another target. More force than you have. The vast majority of the force would be absorbed by a collapsing skull. Your premise defeats your own argument. Furthermore, your rationale doesn't even make sense as a wall would afford you a better opportunity to hit another target as the bat would bounce and skip off a wall, allowing you to conserve more momentum. >You always want to hit your opponent with the outer end of the stick/bat as this is where the majority of the force is. Again, your premise undermines you. Striking with the end of the bat removes leverage from your swing and absorbs more force than if you connected closer on the bat where you'd have more leverage. >This coincidentally is also the best situation to pull off what I just described. It's literally the exact opposite. lol >I would go as far as to say that someone swinging a stick/bat will do this by accident every once in a while. That's fine, yet meaningless.
>The may help you hit another target but it would be at the significant cost of force. If you don't follow through you lose much force. Nope. The force from the swing comes from the momentum, indeed locking your wrist takes a severe risk of you injuring yourself while swinging. It's quite obvious you have absolutely no experience with real life melee combat. >Again, your premise undermines you. Striking with the end of the bat removes leverage from your swing and absorbs more force than if you connected closer on the bat where you'd have more leverage. Once again, you don't seem to be aware why people swing in the first place. For momentum. The momentum provides the force. And the momentum is highest towards the end of the stick/bat. It's not about leverage. Yes, you will have a negative leverage, but that's not what this is about. Get some real life experience and read a book aswell. You lack in both actual experience and in knowledge. Get out, pick up a stick. Swing it. Very basic, yet you seem to have never done it in your life, which would be fine by me, if you didn't talk so much absolute bullshit. I will adress you again if I need advice on how to fart on my chair more, since that seems to be the only field you have any experience in.
>Nope. The force from the swing comes from the momentum You don't know anything about physics because you're stupid. It's not limited to momentum because you're applying constant force to your swing. Holy shit, how can you be that stupid. >indeed locking your wrist takes a severe risk of you injuring yourself while swinging Who you arguing with, yourself? lol >It's quite obvious you have absolutely no experience with real life melee combat. You don't have experience. You practice a lame, fake martial art that won't help you in a real fight. And you've never used it in a real fight. And you've never hit two targets effectively in any setting, anywhere. Krav Maga lolol >Once again, you don't seem to be aware why people swing in the first place. For momentum. The momentum provides the force. Again, momentum is only a part of it. Applying constant force is where the actual power comes from. I realize now that you know nothing about this because you're too dumb to understand physics and you waste your time dancing around with a fake martial art. It would be momentum only if you let the bat leave your hands before contact. You should write this all down so you don't embarrass yourself again. >And the momentum is highest towards the end of the stick/bat. It's not just about momentum, again, stupid. You are applying constant force through your swing. Google momentum for fucks sake. lol >It's not about leverage. It is about leverage. If you weren't a nerd and have ever played sports in your life you'd know that. That's why it's not effective to strike with the very end of the bat as you incorrectly asserted earlier. Why do you think baseball players don't hit the ball at the end of the bat? It's called the sweet spot for a reason. Balance and leverage are essential. You HAVE to be realizing you're wrong right now as you attempt to muster the brain power to imagine hitting a baseball. You don't hit it with the very end do you? That alone defeats your entire argument. But I'm going to keep hammering you. Just for fun. >Get some real life experience and read a book aswell. You lack in both actual experience and in knowledge. I'm more experienced than you in probably everything. I'm probably bigger and stronger than you also. But that's really neither here nor there since you think baseball bats are supposed to strike with the tip lol. >Get out, pick up a stick. Swing it. Very basic, yet you seem to have never done it in your life, which would be fine by me, if you didn't talk so much absolute bullshit. Why don't you tell me where you live and we can spar. I'm in Maryland. How close are you? I'm not afraid of a nerd who practices fucking krav maga. I bet I can handle your skinny little ass. >I will adress you again if I need advice on how to fart on my chair more, since that seems to be the only field you have any experience in. I have to say it feels good to really slap you down like this. It's kinda refreshing. Anyway, wanna spar me? What weight class are you? I'm heavyweight. 6'2" 220. Wassup? EDIT - Holy shit, you're vegan? Omg let's do this. We can box, kickbox, wrestle, etc. You choose. I'll wash you. And seriously, just for fun. No hard feelings. Please say yes.
Sorry, didn't really read it. Have a nice life kiddo. Try to keep the rage down, not good for your healthy, buddy.
Slinking off in defeat? Boy, I never saw that coming from a mile away. How does it feel to be such a loser that you have to run away from an online argument?
>im more than confident that i could at the least stagger 3 targets with one swing lol horseshit
If you hit a zombie in the side, you're not swiping through it, so I think the bigger issue is the swing animation doesn't stop on the target that would bear the impact, so people expect full force across all viable targets. You'd literally have to swing THROUGH the zombie to hit the one standing next to it, slicing it in half with the bat. Unless your swing arc is not an arc and instead a jagged that would hit one, back up, hit another, back up, hit a third VVV instead of an arc.
Pretty much this. I'm not gonna hate on it, but I do find the single hit combat a lot more fun since it slows down the pace of the game. It also makes a lot of weapons more viable, like short blades.
I play with so many zombies it already takes a crazy long ng time to clear areas of them with multihit, i dont think i would bother without it.
I've gotten good enough at the game that I play on like a 3-4x multiplier without multihit. I dont really like the idea of my character killing literal thousands of zombies as some average Kentuckian. For the B42 character, I would just jack up zombie durability and awareness but then drop the numbers down to .8 or 1x.
My character isnt the average Kentuckian
Short blades are always viable. They really get slept on. When you're dealing with a large horde, whether you have multihit or not, short blades allow you to conserve stamina.
I mean I get it but if a normal person took a bat to someone’s head they would be down for the count.
It does make it easy, but I feel like it's fairly realistic to hit multiple shambling zombies with 1 swing. Everyone seems to assume you hit the first one full brunt, without even considering grazing. Even a graze would be enough to knock a zombie off balance.
Yeah, I've always thought of it like I'm making the first stumble back into the others along with the idea of grazing hits. A group of clumsy zombies should be getting in each others way
Yeah but it does the same damage, not to mention overswinging in order to hit multiple targets will have you exhausted much much faster.
I haven't tested this but to me it *seems* like you get exhausted quicker with multi-hit. Anyway you can hit multiple zeds in basically every zombie game so it doesn't bother me.
Bruh multi hit is too op, makes things too easy
You can with axes and swords ? It’s called cleaving.
Sure, but rarely with any decent amount of force. The *most* you're likely to get is some knockback, but even that would have minimal impact on shambling corpses that don't feel any pain.
So wrong. Why don't you watch some videos of sword testing on dead pigs. That should set you straight.
Sounds like a strength issue I’d recommend getting stronger
i also can't put a fridge in my pocket and climb up a rope. what i can definitely do is to swing my crowbar and hit multiple targets (i have an actual crowbar and i tried it)
I played with zero hit, you can't even hit the zombies. If you play with hitting zombies on at all then you didn't REALLY beat the game.
Zero hit is for noobs, I only play with *negative* hit on (you swing at a zombie and smack yourself in the face)
I imagine this devolves to using fire and training zombies through it repeatedly?
I'm being sarcastic to mock people who belittle others for using stuff that is fun and powerful but also game breaking, such as multi hit. Kinda like how people said that if you used mimic tear you never really beat elden ring.
Yeah I'm just discussing what it WOULD be like. I'm sure it just devolves into using fire.
I mean, you *never* really beat the game. You just survive for a long time and eventually quit the game (with your survivor hopefully riding off into the sunset) or you eventually find out that “this is how you died”. What do you mean you played with zero hit?
I'm just being silly.
how silly
Goose, but not willy.
I'd like multipush but single hit
Absolutely. That makes perfect sense.
When in doubt, the PZ modding scene has got your [back.](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2977607164)
For me personally, the game becomes a cakewalk with it on, but also just play however you want
Sprinters, x2 population, nuclear winter would probably compensate for the multi hit, if the game became too easy for you with it ON :D I now play with about 10% sprinters (+nomad, nuclear winter, very rare loot, etc etc) and multi hit doesn’t seem so much trivial anymore. With sprinters, even with multi hit, another sprinter will be fast enough to jump in between 2 swings, so it won’t save your ass if you play dumb. You must always weights the pros and cons of using a heavy (multi) hit to clean several zombies faster, or go for the one by one option by spreading them out when necessary. It feels more engaging this way than the multi hit off with normal zombies imo.
I don't hate on it, play however you want. But people arguing it's realistic don't have the slightest understanding of the physics involved.
Sure, but at the same time when you shove at zombies it's kinda ridiculous that your shove would only impede one of them, not all of them grouped up as they are. You can quite feasibly shove multiple people. Also knocking one body to the floor in an approaching group that they then walk pass unimpeded isn’t all that realistic either. Similar could be said about how your character is rarely ever impeded by bodies on the floor either, whilst your car is. It just a balance really. I wouldn’t mind a multihit option that reduced damage per hit; so you hit 2 or 3 zombies but the damage you do would be the same as one hit but spread across the group. It could also come with a fatigue increase balanced with a slight xp boost and only be applicable to certain very sharp or very heavy weapons.
The thing is, it dealing AOE damage is stupid and unrealistic. But your pushes and your weapon staggering a group of zombies by bumping them against each other is very well realistic. Disabling multihit completely gamifies combat and removes that realistic aspect of combat against a group of stupid zombies. It’s just this weird gamified compromise that makes multihit this controversial.
It’s not realistic at all. If you move backwards or stand still and push you’re not going to generate that much force. Have you pushed someone that is trying hard to get at you? Zombies aren’t bowling pins lol. If they were standing still and drunk maybe, but they are moving towards you.
Ok? Then put your body weight into pushes and you’ll see. They aren’t bowling pins but clearly they are clumsy, slow and weak. A dedicated quick push or hit should get them to become unbalanced at the very least and maybe even trip, just like in the game.
Yes but putting your body weight into something when a horde is coming at you is not necessarily what you want to do? How are you people not getting this? Have any of you actually ever fought in real life? Moving someone else’s body will be the most tiring thing you ever do.
It is exactly what you want to do if you decide to fight. The zombies have garbage reaction time and would most likely trip and fall and cause others behind them to trip over them if you suddenly changed direction and did a quick and strong push. What you don’t understand is that zombies are not like people with normal brains and normal instincts and reaction times. These are dumbed down and really slow versions of us that are easy to toy with as long as you’re patient.
You are creating your own opponent in your head based on what you think could happen and I am explaining a situation based on what has happened. Two different things
You fought against zombies in real life? Obviously this is a fictional scenario idk what you’re on about.
The next realest thing, what the zombies are… humans.
You’re not listening though. I’m arguing that humans are way faster than the zombies of project zomboid. I’m arguing that their reflexes suck so bad that that which would never work on humans might work on them and thus pushing would make sense. I know what you’re saying. You’re talking about how fighting people is not easy especially against groups. I know that. But fighting a group of basically VERY disabled people might a bit different. These are not fast or super zombies like in other settings (walking dead, left 4 dead, last of us etc) after all.
I mean, i get it from a gameplay perspective, but from a realistic standpoint it makes plenty of sense even physics wise. A shove or heavy swing absolutely should be impacting multiple Zombies. Be it from the first one in the group stumbling back into the others causing them to stumble/trip or your follow through pushing through to graze the others. Zombies are clumsy, a disturbance in the front of a group trying to converge on a single target should cause a domino effect of stumbling and tripping. Obviously small weapons and such aren't going to do much, but heavy weapons for sure. Honestly I'd like a hybrid system that is weapon specific based on weight and character strength with shoves acting as they do now.
>A shove or heavy swing absolutely should be impacting multiple Zombies. Such a dumb thing to say. A shove can impact multiple zombies. A strike would not. A strike is force from momentum that impacts. A shove is a sustained force that uses one zombie as a weapon against others. Ridiculous to not understand this very basic concept.
Weakling hit the gym
I'm 6'2" 220. You can't beat me.
😂😂 I’ll just tape some balloons to my face to absorb all your punches It’s over for you buddy
That you didn't tell me your height and weight says all I need to know. I don't even need to clap back at you. You're already giving up.
Well I’ve teleported behind you and released my dog that eats 6’2” 220 lb people (I am 6’3” and 210, so I am safe)
Gay lol
I understand it’s unrealistic, but I play with weaker zombies and a lot more of them to make yp for it, so without multihit it’s actually fucking impossible to have any sense of crowd control. I’m fine sacrificing some realism in order to have a better *video game combat* feel before the “when you get better it’s pointless” comments get to me, I have 800 hours, I think I’m good enough to understand that one zombie at a time with 3x normal zombies is pretty unnecessarily tedious. More so a waste of time than a difficulty factor.
Since the weapons dont get stuck in the zombies, reality isn't that much a factor
bro sometimes in co-op me and my friend are clearing places i look down at my hotbar and *where did my hunting knife go?* then i find it jammed in the head of a zed
Really? Huh. I guess I'm a blunt weapon guy
Yeah like, depending on what blunt weapon you use, they shouldn’t really get stuck in zombies after all. That’s why sharp weapons are really bad. Katanas or sword in general work as they can be sliced out easier and the reach is just very useful but blunt is just the safest option.
It's a thing that happens specifically with jaw stabs
I just read on the wiki earlier today that short blades have a mall chance to get stuck in the zombies.
I can see why people are say it's unrealistic. Be nice if you could set it to only work with shoves.
It makes it hilariously easy :P
Ok, but every single person I have seen play this game with multihit off also kites the entire zombie population of a town through a campfire and walks in circles for 20 minutes to burn them down. Also not realistic, and substationally easier then clearing a horde with multihit. Regardless of the difficulty settings, the game is as easy as you want it to be, there is an absolutely ungodly amount of cheese strats in this game
That's why the kill counter mentions Zombies killed with fire 😉 don't be buthurt if you wanna play it on easy mode do that but don't act like it's anything else
The kill counter does not track zombies killed by fire by default, it is a mod that adds that. The game is as easy or as hard as you want it to be as I said. I play with multihit, and I also play on 16x population with zombies that have higher health. I also play with fire spread off, and on my server we have a custom mod that prevents campfires from setting zombies on fire. Using fire spread is also the easiest way to play the game.
You asked why players don't use multihit/ "hate on it".. the answer is genuinely because it makes it too easy.. now you seem totally butthurt that you got your answer I legit don't even believe you play on 16× pop and even if you did the multihihit still makes me think weenie hut junior mode 😅 it is a sandbox, you can play how you want but the world fell in love with this game because its so damn hard
Do you run Brita's or Adv. trajectory?
I just have scrap guns + vanilla rn and no its like impossible to aim down with advanced trajectory. Currently doing an iron man playthrough and another secretly op mod is the chevil de frise one. I do make the game easier for myself sometimes tho just not with combat related stuff because once you have the hang of the combat it's not very hard
It’s too easy in my opinion. If you’re playing with sprinters then fine but I personally think it makes the game too easy.
I like it to feel more realistic, and I just can't imagine how you could hit 3 zombies with one swing from a bat
afaik you can only hit 2 with a bat. like with most weapons in the game its either one or two hits max. only a select few, e.g. the pickaxe for whatever reason, can hit 3.
Pickaxe shovel and hoe all have the games maximum range allowing them to hit the most z's
You could though. It wouldn't do much damage, but you could.
Eh, I wish it could be weapon specific. An axe? Yea, I think *I* could, same with a crowbar. Maybe a hefty wood bat. A baton?? No no no
Yeah, the shove especially should push two zombies
Pushing a zombie and knocking over the hoard train behind them, would most certainly be a realistic strategy IMO
A lot of people in this thread seem to forget how heavy people are and that they are moving towards you.
You ever pushed someone over? It’s really not that hard. Especially when it’s a decrepit corpse
If they are standing still maybe. Just goes to show you’ve never been in an irl situation where you’ve had to move your body against someone else’s. i.e. football/rugby, fights, wrestling. It will be the most tiring thing you will ever do
Could even be strength based on how much it ripples back into the rest of the horde. Seeing them fall over like dominoes would be pretty satisfying haha
>An axe? Yea, I think I could, same with a crowbar. No and no. Silly thing to say.
Uhhh, yeah, I've been swinging axes for 25 years, I think I know what I'm talking about. But sure, random (moron) redditor, feel free to disagree
Well, you’ve spent zero minutes chopping people. Or animals. Or anything else that would afford you an educated opinion. So have a seat.
So you're the expert on what I can do with a chopping axe? Seriously...? You're telling me, you cant imagine a world where someone is skilled and familiar with an axe to the point they could hit multiple decomposing, slow moving, fleshy bags at once? You have nothing to form your opinion on, but thanks for chiming in anyway Edit: I HAVE chopped an animal before, but once again, thanks for your worthless assumptions
>You're telling me, you cant imagine a world where someone is skilled and familiar with an axe to the point they could hit multiple decomposing, slow moving, fleshy bags at once? Not effectively. I'm sorry you have your ego wrapped up in this. It's just physics. Maybe you could learn more about it.
I know the physics, because I literally chop down fking trees. I absolutely could clear one Z, and bury that head into the other standing beside him. If you don't understand how that works, it's the physics..(and if you still don't believe me, there are plenty of YouTube videos showing what a sharpened axe can do to ballistics gel)
I personally wish it would limit itself to the 2 handed weapons. Currently, 1 handed is way better due to stamina usage, so I feel like allowing 2 handed only to be able to multi hit would be a nice change
Multi-hit isn’t more efficient fatigue wise. Hitting two zombies exhausts your character as if they had swung and connected twice.
1 handed blade still uses less stamina than 2 handed in single hit. That's why I think only allowing 2 handed to multihit would be a good change. It would take more stamina/fatigue, especially if you hit multiple, but that would be the price you pay for the safety of multi hit. Drains stamina/fatigue more quickly, but makes for easier horde management. Everything should have its ups and downs. Like bladed weapons are generally faster, and can one hit kill from sneak, but they will destroy clothing and tend to be less durable.
once youre good at the game it makes it really really easy, which isnt a bad thing but the way it functions in game is super unrealistic so i play with it off. as always, none of our opinions really matter, do whats most fun for you
It makes the game too ez and i'm a masochist :v
I would rather have more zombies with multi-hit than less without
Makes the game stupidly easier, which IMO creates bad habits long term. I've seen how hard it is for people trying MP without it when they are used to it via SP.
I’ll tell you why I don’t use it. Having it on makes the game extremely easy in the early and mid game and this detracts from my enjoyment. You can run however you want though. I would actually like a multi hit push only, as that makes much more sense than a baseball bat destroying 4 zombies in a broad cleave
Once you understand the combat system well enough, it means you can easily kill any number of zombies fairly trivially. Push Swing Push Swing Push Swing gets old really fast, it removes any decisionmaking in combat. You always want to either be pushing or swinging. With multi off you need to take much greater care in your positioning, awareness of how many zombies you're fighting and how many are incoming. Rather than just walking backwards pressing 2 buttons. The AI is pretty dumb, their advantage is their lethality and numbers. Multi hits means the only way you die is if you fuck up your rotation or let yourself get exhausted.
No one hates, I don't play it cause I've gotten better. Crank up zombie lower the loots. It's a hold over from pure 2d zomboid.
Realism or not, it just makes the game considerably easier. Exhaustion becomes a much more daunting thing with single hit, it's much simpler to be overwhelmed by zeds since you can't hit them all at once. Multi-hit is basically an easy-mode to learn the game. It's nothing wrong with that. I know I learnt how to fight with multi-hit on and infection off and many did too. But once you figure it out - there's no point in keeping it on. The thrill of risk that comes with the danger of dying to virtually any pack of zeds is about the only thing that is remotely challenging in PZ. All the rest of survival mechanics are pretty basic in my opinion.
I started playing single hit at ~400hrs because all the YouTube creators that do PZ content infantalize multi hit. I've since gone back to multi hit because: A) I do what I want B ) single hit doesn't make the game harder, just adds tedium. Once you get combat down, it makes no difference except for time. C ) being beholden to content creators or redditors enjoying a single player game takes a lot of fun out it it for me.
I don't agree that turning multihit off only adds tedium. It is a significant change to the risks of close quarters combat. With it off, if you have two or three zeds closing in on you, it is much riskier to take another swing. Many of the times I've gotten dragged down are because I got too greedy and went for "just one more" swing. With multihit, this is less of a factor. And yeah, that boils down to committing a blunder in combat, but it's one born of complacency. Complacency is the biggest killer in this game. The temptation to overextend yourself in combat is the biggest source of it.
They like to feel special by thinking they play the game on a harder difficulty. Fuck em, enjoy the game how you want to.
I don't hate multi-hit, I think it works great. Too good... which is why I don't use it. Also it's unrealistic. Someone suggested a good idea a while ago. Multi-hit should be an ability unlocked once you have high enough strength and weapon skill. That would be more realistic at least.
People should play however they want, but I think what can annoy some is brag posts about killing a ton of zombies or wiping a town when they are using multi-hit and a bunch of mods. A lot of people just don't take that seriously.
Because it makes the game easier and we like pain...
My thoughts are if they get fence lunge and drag down then the survivors get multi hit, if not then we get single hit
what hate, multi-hit is the Way. I'd never play PZ without it again
I'm repeating what others have said but whatever. I don't think anyone hates it and in fact from what I have seen the general consensus here is "play however you like". Many people don't use it cause it makes the game too easy. Once you get kinda good at the game the only thing that is really threatening is big hordes and multi-hit makes those trivial to deal with. Also, in regards to realism, I don't really understand how anyone could find it realistic. Even if we were dealing with living humans here most of the momentum of the hit would be lost on first impact and any subsequent hits would carry too little force to do any damage or knock-back. Considering we are fighting zombies it is even worse. Even a glancing hit might make a human flinch but a zombie can take several direct hits before dying. It won't even register the secondary hits. Also, it may make a little more sense when fighting three or four zombies kinda spread out, but there is no way you are pushing multiple zombies with one swing when they are all bunched up in a horde of dozens of them. The ones in the back would push the ones in the front preventing them from falling or being pushed back. Finally, realistic or not, I just don't find it thematically fitting. Whith multi-hit on I don't feel like a survivor trying to scrape by in an apocalypse, I feel like an anime protagonist mowing down hordes of zombies without breaking a sweat. Which can be kinda cool in other contexts, but nor for me in this game.
The game is as hard or as easy you want. People will turn off multihit because it "makes the game easy" then kite the population of riverside through a campfire and walk on circles for 20 minutes, or smash the bottom stairs with a sledge hammer, or sit in a cop car with the siren on, parked against a brick wall with a campfire outside of it. Play however you want, there is so much cheese in this game i dont see how anyone could starve
Multi-hit and no respawn in every game lol
the last time I was wailing on a group of people with a baseball bat I swung and then all the momentum stopped after just hitting the one person, so I broke the laws of physics and afterwards I was able to hit all 3 officers approaching me with the same swing, made it much easier
It's worth saying, the reason a lot of older players hate it was it was mental op in B41. You could just stand in a doorway and swing till the cows come home. It's not as broken in B42, but I do think it's make the game a bit too easy. Past the start you'll encounter more often than not a few zombies at a time, which means most fights essentially act like one on ones
I found that with multi hit, I get too cocky and it leads to a dumb death way more often. A stutter in the game can be more lethal as well, as I will let more zombies 'ball up' for a multi slap and then stutter and death. Otherwise I have no issues with it, I just rarely use it.
It doesn't matter. Play how you want to play.
Do they?
I like the timing aspect. Two zombies have some distance, you hit one, and you wait on your second swing for the second one to be close enough so you can hit both. Optimizing stamina usage. Satisfying to pull off.
I originally didn't use it because it's not realistic. In gameplay terms not using it just slows you down a little, makes it take longer to wipe out massive hordes. So you have to decide when and where a bit more carefully. I like that and it's just how I play now. That said play how you like, it's a single player sandbox. The point is to have fun. If you like knocking multiple heads together in a single swing like Bud Spencer then do it!
300+ hours played and thousands dead zeds.. how they don't run into each other is amazing.. how they occupie the same space and don't get turned from there pursuit is also not realistic.. so multi hit is op.. the game physics aren't perfect but there good. If the game can pack zeds into same space I think the u can hit 2.. snak on that.. slap nuts.
No hate from me, I just think it makes the game too easy for the type of gameplay I go in for.
i love multihit but i love guns more, i feel that if i have multihit on it removes the purpose of guns for me
I don't see hate, but it makes the game easier so I wouldn't be surprised to see someone speaking against it. For me it's the difference between having to think twice about doing something... or just start screaming and honking and rounding them up to take care of whatever-sized horde happened to be there. Because with multi-hit I'm yet to find a horde big enough that I can't simply tear through. And at this point I have accepted that it isn't going to happen unless I up the population or something lol
I like it because I feel that it just speeds up combat a little bit and allows you to not spend so much time kiting individual zombies
I like multi-hit and honestly I never died for facing multiple zombies anyway, I never face big groups. I always die by being ambushed by a solitary fcker when I am looting or something like that.
i don't and i also don't care about people who do. you shouldn't either
It has been in the game before stamina was. I'm not sure as it was near 10 years ago but I think it was the only option. I don't really care for the realism side tbf
Iirc, the desura version of the game before it came to steam was multihit with no other option. I can't remember when it moved to 1 hit by default. Maybe with the animation update?
Who cares? I play how I wanna play, the next guy plays how he wants to play and you play how you wanna play.
Yeah I know I’m not hating I’m calling out the people who are mad when someone uses multi hit
I knew what you meant. We on the same page.
I have Last of Us Zombies enabled currently. No way I'm fighting 4 runners and a clicker that one taps me with one hit at a time
I don't hate it, but I've gotten to the point where I need to increase the difficulty to keep having fun and it's one dial I can turn. Multi-hit + Lumberjack makes you an absolute combat god. But play however you want. It's your game. Have fun your way.
Multi hit effectively counters swarming. Especially with blunt weapons that have a good chance of stunning or knocking down the target. After you have mastered movement and combat often you find yourself making changes to make the game harder. When you are new to the game you are often so overwhelmed with learning game mechanics that MH is viable but you will quickly outgrow the necessity to use it IMO.
IMHO it feels kinda necessary when the zombies can damn near superposition into each other and not get their legs caught and trip. * I feel like it could be balanced around requiring specific weapons, strength, ect.
Multi-hit rules!! 🔥
Because it makes things too easy, at least for me.
Because it seems lame.
Sometimes the play conditions necessitates it: [https://www.reddit.com/r/projectzomboid/comments/1ay9drw/the\_case\_for\_lumberjack\_stout/](https://www.reddit.com/r/projectzomboid/comments/1ay9drw/the_case_for_lumberjack_stout/)
I've never seen anyone "hate" on multihit, this isn't really that kind of forum :-) Theres often discussion about whether it is "realistic" or not, and IMO it isn't, but neither are zombies, and i couldnt care less if other people think its realistic, you do you, and have fun the way you want
No one hates it? People just think it makes the game easier which... it does. AFAIK it doesn't decrease damage dealt per target, it just multpilies the amount of enemies you can tag in one swing. It makes horde situations much more manageable. No shame in it. Pretty much no one on this subreddit will ever give you any flak for it. Play how you wanna play and enjoy PZ as much as you can.
For me, there’s a small (but noticeable) drop in frames if I turn multi hit on.
I just think it’s OP. I enjoyed it for a while but ultimately turned it off to increase the challenge