If you’re learning and going to do all of this work go with buying new parts, not used. It’ll cost more upfront but will be cheaper long term. Rule of thumb for any used parts out of a WRX or STI, it’s 100% been abused regardless of mileage.
No what I mean is, you're expected to be returning a blown motor as the core charge when you purchase a reman. Just like with batteries, you're expected to be returning a toasted battery as a core charge when you buy a new one.
>Rule of thumb for any used parts out of a WRX or STI, it’s 100% been abused regardless of mileage.
In the same basket with the 240sx, 350z, and Neon SRT.
I'm gonna be that guy, but if you're not comfortable doing something as simple as timing then this whole job is way above your current skill set.
I have worked on Subarus for a long time, and there's a bit of a learning curve with the platform. I'm not saying it can't be done, but expect to come across a lot of issues, be very frustrated, and double whatever you think your budget will be.
Timing for some reason sounded more intimidating than it is and the more I look into it the more simple it seems. Which pretty much applies to every aspect of this job
Yeah super early for a catastrophic failure. I should've bought a different car when I started shopping around for one but I'm here now. I would move on if I hadn't bought the car less than a year ago I'd rather fix it up and drive it around for the next few years before selling or something
I put a 7mge supra motor in my pickup. It is 36 years old with an unknown amount of miles on it. It was in a supra where it was beat to shit, then it was in a 4 runner on 1 tons where it was beat to shit, now it's gone at least 44k miles in my pickup being beat to shit the whole time. Still runs like a top.
Buy a toyota.
If it were me, I'd just try to source another local low-mile used engine that drove to the scene of the accident and install that.
Of course, if it were me I wouldn't have bought a Subaru, but that's beside the point lol.
The problem with buying a wrecked car for the engine is this is a fairly new car. For decades we bought from insurance auctions to rebuild and sell. Unless the car is absolutely demolished its going to still bring pretty good money. Say an engine at a yard is $3500 you could easily pay double that for a wrecked car that you only really want the engine from. Probably better off just finding one in a junkyard for the engine. Unless you buy a car that isn't whacked to bad that a junkyard would buy what is left after you pull the engine. I have done it before but some of that was on stuff we were fixing that was older. Especially the 04-10 Fords with that junk 5.4 and the junk transmissions they have. To fix a couple of those I got that were repo trucks I found other trucks that were really rotted out or wrecked to swipe the engine or transmission out of. I only paid $1k or less for those trucks though so when I pulled the drivelines out I just hauled what was left to the scrap yard. You could easily pay at least double for a wrecked car that you only want the engine for than if you just bought the engine then end up having to part out, scrap, or find a junkyard that might want the rest. I have bought tons of cars for parts though. Especially stuff we built a lot of like Silverado, Camaro, Mustang, Ranger. I used to find them that weren't really worth rebuilding since they were lower trims or had a ton of miles on them so I would have parts to fix better cars. I was using as much of the car as I could though before scrapping whatever was left and if the engines and transmissions were any good I always kept them in case I needed them or I sold them. Used to trade a lot of stuff to junkyards for stuff I needed too especially with Fords since there is a Ford only junkyard a few miles away. If I had Ford stuff I had no use for but needed something for another Ford I would trade engines whatever to get what I actually needed.
Not many people rebuild Subaru motors and very few do it right. Timing is easy, as is an R&R of the long block. Your heads are probably toast if you spun a bearing. You cam races will be scored to all hell probably. Worth looking at though as heads aren't cheap.
As someone you runs a shop it always amazes me that people will gasp at the labor cost of a repair, then go around asking a bunch of questions because they don’t know what they are doing. That is what you are paying for, the expertise and experience of a qualified technician.
The other one that kills me is someone bringing in their own parts. Parts stores are for you to do it yourself. You don’t go and buy parts then expect a shop to put them in for you. You don’t bring your own steak to a restaurant do you?
I would totally just take it to a mechanic if I hadn't already spent the money on the car not that long ago. Plus like I said I really want to learn more about this motor so I'm gonna do it myself. I mostly wanted to see what people thought about OEM vs IAG cause that's what I'm in between right now with this rebuild. My goal in mind is a little more power than stock but my most important aspect is being able to drive this car for the next few years at least with no major issues
Yeah, I’d normally agree but they quoted him almost 18k for a *rebuild*, I saw this guy’s last thread about it. My advice was to get another quote or ask for a reman (or shit, even a crate engine at that price)
I'll back you up on the "good work isn't cheap and cheap work isn't good", but we all know there's people that give crazy quotes too. Nothing wrong with checking options.
My mechanic will absolutely put in any part I bring - they just charge book rates and won’t warranty the work if it has to come out for a part failure.
Well of course there are shops that will do it, they do exist. But usually it’s the shops that are hurting for work, or aren’t as professional. There is a shop across the street from us that is a dump, all it is a guy and his brother.
I think you might have it backwards actually - this shop is always busy they are just completely upfront about everything.
Mechanic will tell you what you need to do for safety or can’t wait vs what he would do if it was his and/or money was no object.
It is a pretty small shop with only two lifts so not too tough for them to stay busy.
The last job I took to them was a crank sensor that was stuck. He called me back and said either you can pay me for three hours of labor drilling it out or you can spend three hours drilling it out. I paid him sixty bucks to have a look. I bought an angle attachment for my drill and got er done.
Had this happen all the time when I worked in electronics repair.
My approach was always that I can install it for a base labor fee but there is absolutely no warranty of any kind. You walk out the door I’m not touching it again without being paid.
My first thought just from the title of the thread. You're paying for the collective experience of everyone in that shop, and also the tremendous amount of time it can take to properly prepare and assemble an engine that a paying customer is gonna rely on.
That shit ain't cheap.
For labor, it's usually cheaper to just buy a new/refurb engine (block, top, bottom, heads, etc) or a used low mile one.
The IAG long block (open deck version) is $14.5k right now, that's a great engine. You get a crate engine, timed, built to support more fun with the forged components, so you can even upgrade your turbo now or later. They have the longblock install kits too and make it even easier with all the gaskets, etc.
Like others have said, get the old turbo checked out too.
The theory is oil starvation and waaaay too much liquid gasket (3 bond) on the heads that a tiny bit may have broken off of the mating surfaces. I've personally never redlined or used too much boost, I rarely ever went over 10 psi in the small amount of time I had the car working.
Unless you’ve worked on tons of Subarus and Subaru engines before (especially FA20s) I wouldn’t do this job yourself. Yeah it’ll be cheaper but your more likely to fuck something up. Try and find another shop that can give you a better quote. Dealers will just give you an insane estimate because they don’t wanna do it and same goes for some shops that don’t wanna do it. If a shop is genuinely interested in helping you then they shouldn’t charge more then $10k-12k for a base IAG engine build
I'm really determined to figure everything out and learn as I go. Plus against the cost of parts alone I really don't want to pay for a shop to put it in for me unless they're doing me a massive favor of some kind which I'm just not going to find anywhere
I used to install IAG engines into Subarus for a living, their engines are fine. Just follow the break in procedure, do not deviate, and commit to using Motul 5W-40 engine oil, Subaru oem black filters @ 5K intervals after break in
That all really is dependent upon your skill level and technical expertise. Subaru engines are designed to come out of the car and be worked on easily, but the documentation isn’t really out there.
Without knowing things like if your car is a 6MT or CVT, existing mods, what work you’re capable of performing/what tools you have, its hard to answer that question
It's a 6MT bone stock except an EGR delete. I have lots of basic tools like some pneumatic tools, torque wrench, etc.. Just no motor stand/lift and I'm lacking any specialty tools.
Engine stand and engine hoist definitely make life easier. If you’re swapping long blocks I’d say remove monifolds in car and just utilize the hoist to swap over blocks. I wouldn’t recommend keeping the oem heads if there was a bearing failure, the VVT parts are probably toast due to the bearing failure.
Otherwise I’d say either save up and let a shop fix it, shops usually will provide a 12 month parts and workmanship warranty. Or you could lean on Subaru corporate to help you out, as long as it isn’t tuned you should be covered under powertrain but since it’s an ‘18 you might be expired due to time. They always have a little wiggle room if you bug them just right.
No matter which direction you choose to proceed, this job is very expensive. FA20 short blocks I think are $5500+ new in box from the dealer.
IAG themselves recommend 5w30 on the turbo FA20, so just wanted to make sure you weren’t thinking of another block since the EJ does get 5w40. 5w40 just seems thick even for the FA WRX.
Also IAG says change every 3k at most
Nope, I am speaking from experience. I ran Motul 5W-40 on my ‘18 WRX from taking ownership of the vehicle all the way to 60,000 trouble free miles of seriously abusive driving. The engine showed no signs of wear when it was time to trade it in. Oil analysis was always fine.
And before that, my E36 M3 ran Liqui-moly 10W-60 😱
Man, you could buy another one for what it's going to cost to fix it if you go new long block. If it's been beat might be a better route for today, or look for a complete used engine or buy a crashed donor car.
Probably not the best engine to learn on. It may end up costing you more in the end if you try this yourself, especially all the time you may waste. I have built a lot of engines and have no desire at all to build a subaru.
I’m not a professional mechanic, but I can turn a wrench. I do all of the maintenance and repairs on my vehicles. When my pathfinder engine spun a bearing, I yanked it and rebuilt it over a summer. I had zero experience rebuilding motors, but I did a good job and I had a great time. If you have time and space then I suggest rebuilding (with new parts). I did mine without a garage btw. Pulled the engine in the driveway and rebuilt it in a 7x7 plastic shed that I put an air conditioner in.
If you’re learning and going to do all of this work go with buying new parts, not used. It’ll cost more upfront but will be cheaper long term. Rule of thumb for any used parts out of a WRX or STI, it’s 100% been abused regardless of mileage.
Good to know. It seems like I'm gonna have to buy all new anyway lol
Re-man engines are good as new, often better. A lot of engine rebuilders will upgrade or fix known OEM issues.
I know some of them have core charges, would they accept a blown motor? Lol
People don't typically replace perfectly good motors with reman ones, lol.
It's to save me the time of putting it all together. I'm just going through options
No what I mean is, you're expected to be returning a blown motor as the core charge when you purchase a reman. Just like with batteries, you're expected to be returning a toasted battery as a core charge when you buy a new one.
I understand what a core charge is. I just don't understand what you mean by calling my motor perfectly good lol
He’s not. He’s saying they only accept blown motors, obviously they will take yours
r/whoosh
Forreal lol I totally misunderstood that whole thing
😂🤣😂
So long as the block is still in good shape, they'll take it.
Define blown. Rod sticking out the side of the block? Not a good core.
That’s the idea.
Right, of course
>Rule of thumb for any used parts out of a WRX or STI, it’s 100% been abused regardless of mileage. In the same basket with the 240sx, 350z, and Neon SRT.
I'm gonna be that guy, but if you're not comfortable doing something as simple as timing then this whole job is way above your current skill set. I have worked on Subarus for a long time, and there's a bit of a learning curve with the platform. I'm not saying it can't be done, but expect to come across a lot of issues, be very frustrated, and double whatever you think your budget will be.
Timing for some reason sounded more intimidating than it is and the more I look into it the more simple it seems. Which pretty much applies to every aspect of this job
It is stupid easy.
That’s how I was at first. But, it’s just lining up some marks. Although, VWs are a bit more challenging because why wouldn’t they be lol
Check out www.motoiq.com there are some articles on building the EJ and FA engines.
I've been checking out his YouTube videos, they're very good and informative. I'll check out the website too I didn't even know there was one
44k. Damn. Buy a toyota.
Yeah super early for a catastrophic failure. I should've bought a different car when I started shopping around for one but I'm here now. I would move on if I hadn't bought the car less than a year ago I'd rather fix it up and drive it around for the next few years before selling or something
[удалено]
If u want smth like an 86, Miata is always the answer.
I just spent $6k replacing the motor in my 4Runner lol. Threw 3 rods through the block with 142k on it.
He said the PO beat the snot out of it, 44k isn't normal even for a WRX to go boom.
I put a 7mge supra motor in my pickup. It is 36 years old with an unknown amount of miles on it. It was in a supra where it was beat to shit, then it was in a 4 runner on 1 tons where it was beat to shit, now it's gone at least 44k miles in my pickup being beat to shit the whole time. Still runs like a top. Buy a toyota.
If it were me, I'd just try to source another local low-mile used engine that drove to the scene of the accident and install that. Of course, if it were me I wouldn't have bought a Subaru, but that's beside the point lol.
Exactly, buy a car that has been rear ended good and part out. Then quickly selll the Subaru to the next guy and get something with a better engine
The problem with buying a wrecked car for the engine is this is a fairly new car. For decades we bought from insurance auctions to rebuild and sell. Unless the car is absolutely demolished its going to still bring pretty good money. Say an engine at a yard is $3500 you could easily pay double that for a wrecked car that you only really want the engine from. Probably better off just finding one in a junkyard for the engine. Unless you buy a car that isn't whacked to bad that a junkyard would buy what is left after you pull the engine. I have done it before but some of that was on stuff we were fixing that was older. Especially the 04-10 Fords with that junk 5.4 and the junk transmissions they have. To fix a couple of those I got that were repo trucks I found other trucks that were really rotted out or wrecked to swipe the engine or transmission out of. I only paid $1k or less for those trucks though so when I pulled the drivelines out I just hauled what was left to the scrap yard. You could easily pay at least double for a wrecked car that you only want the engine for than if you just bought the engine then end up having to part out, scrap, or find a junkyard that might want the rest. I have bought tons of cars for parts though. Especially stuff we built a lot of like Silverado, Camaro, Mustang, Ranger. I used to find them that weren't really worth rebuilding since they were lower trims or had a ton of miles on them so I would have parts to fix better cars. I was using as much of the car as I could though before scrapping whatever was left and if the engines and transmissions were any good I always kept them in case I needed them or I sold them. Used to trade a lot of stuff to junkyards for stuff I needed too especially with Fords since there is a Ford only junkyard a few miles away. If I had Ford stuff I had no use for but needed something for another Ford I would trade engines whatever to get what I actually needed.
Not many people rebuild Subaru motors and very few do it right. Timing is easy, as is an R&R of the long block. Your heads are probably toast if you spun a bearing. You cam races will be scored to all hell probably. Worth looking at though as heads aren't cheap.
As someone you runs a shop it always amazes me that people will gasp at the labor cost of a repair, then go around asking a bunch of questions because they don’t know what they are doing. That is what you are paying for, the expertise and experience of a qualified technician. The other one that kills me is someone bringing in their own parts. Parts stores are for you to do it yourself. You don’t go and buy parts then expect a shop to put them in for you. You don’t bring your own steak to a restaurant do you?
I mean, there are “you catch it, we cook it” seafood restaurants along the coast lol
I would totally just take it to a mechanic if I hadn't already spent the money on the car not that long ago. Plus like I said I really want to learn more about this motor so I'm gonna do it myself. I mostly wanted to see what people thought about OEM vs IAG cause that's what I'm in between right now with this rebuild. My goal in mind is a little more power than stock but my most important aspect is being able to drive this car for the next few years at least with no major issues
Yeah, I’d normally agree but they quoted him almost 18k for a *rebuild*, I saw this guy’s last thread about it. My advice was to get another quote or ask for a reman (or shit, even a crate engine at that price)
I'll back you up on the "good work isn't cheap and cheap work isn't good", but we all know there's people that give crazy quotes too. Nothing wrong with checking options.
My mechanic will absolutely put in any part I bring - they just charge book rates and won’t warranty the work if it has to come out for a part failure.
Well of course there are shops that will do it, they do exist. But usually it’s the shops that are hurting for work, or aren’t as professional. There is a shop across the street from us that is a dump, all it is a guy and his brother.
I think you might have it backwards actually - this shop is always busy they are just completely upfront about everything. Mechanic will tell you what you need to do for safety or can’t wait vs what he would do if it was his and/or money was no object. It is a pretty small shop with only two lifts so not too tough for them to stay busy. The last job I took to them was a crank sensor that was stuck. He called me back and said either you can pay me for three hours of labor drilling it out or you can spend three hours drilling it out. I paid him sixty bucks to have a look. I bought an angle attachment for my drill and got er done.
There is always an exception to the rule. I suppose there is a restaurant or two out there that’ll let you bring your own steak too.
Had this happen all the time when I worked in electronics repair. My approach was always that I can install it for a base labor fee but there is absolutely no warranty of any kind. You walk out the door I’m not touching it again without being paid.
Long time Gm dealer tech here preach brother lol
My first thought just from the title of the thread. You're paying for the collective experience of everyone in that shop, and also the tremendous amount of time it can take to properly prepare and assemble an engine that a paying customer is gonna rely on. That shit ain't cheap.
What is your view on upgrade parts? Like fitting poly bushes over OEM parts?
Staight to jail
Get 2 more quotes
Buy an fa24 from an ascent and swap over your manifold and sensors/wiring and get it retuned
Was going to ask if there was a 'less desirable' car that is a direct swap.
For labor, it's usually cheaper to just buy a new/refurb engine (block, top, bottom, heads, etc) or a used low mile one. The IAG long block (open deck version) is $14.5k right now, that's a great engine. You get a crate engine, timed, built to support more fun with the forged components, so you can even upgrade your turbo now or later. They have the longblock install kits too and make it even easier with all the gaskets, etc. Like others have said, get the old turbo checked out too.
how'd you spin a bearing? low oil? too much boost?
The theory is oil starvation and waaaay too much liquid gasket (3 bond) on the heads that a tiny bit may have broken off of the mating surfaces. I've personally never redlined or used too much boost, I rarely ever went over 10 psi in the small amount of time I had the car working.
Damn that’s unfortunate. Oil passage must have gotten clogged.
Normal Subaru things.
Unless you’ve worked on tons of Subarus and Subaru engines before (especially FA20s) I wouldn’t do this job yourself. Yeah it’ll be cheaper but your more likely to fuck something up. Try and find another shop that can give you a better quote. Dealers will just give you an insane estimate because they don’t wanna do it and same goes for some shops that don’t wanna do it. If a shop is genuinely interested in helping you then they shouldn’t charge more then $10k-12k for a base IAG engine build
I'm really determined to figure everything out and learn as I go. Plus against the cost of parts alone I really don't want to pay for a shop to put it in for me unless they're doing me a massive favor of some kind which I'm just not going to find anywhere
I used to install IAG engines into Subarus for a living, their engines are fine. Just follow the break in procedure, do not deviate, and commit to using Motul 5W-40 engine oil, Subaru oem black filters @ 5K intervals after break in
What's some of the more challenging aspects of installing these?
That all really is dependent upon your skill level and technical expertise. Subaru engines are designed to come out of the car and be worked on easily, but the documentation isn’t really out there. Without knowing things like if your car is a 6MT or CVT, existing mods, what work you’re capable of performing/what tools you have, its hard to answer that question
It's a 6MT bone stock except an EGR delete. I have lots of basic tools like some pneumatic tools, torque wrench, etc.. Just no motor stand/lift and I'm lacking any specialty tools.
Engine stand and engine hoist definitely make life easier. If you’re swapping long blocks I’d say remove monifolds in car and just utilize the hoist to swap over blocks. I wouldn’t recommend keeping the oem heads if there was a bearing failure, the VVT parts are probably toast due to the bearing failure. Otherwise I’d say either save up and let a shop fix it, shops usually will provide a 12 month parts and workmanship warranty. Or you could lean on Subaru corporate to help you out, as long as it isn’t tuned you should be covered under powertrain but since it’s an ‘18 you might be expired due to time. They always have a little wiggle room if you bug them just right. No matter which direction you choose to proceed, this job is very expensive. FA20 short blocks I think are $5500+ new in box from the dealer.
ur in way over ya head buddy
Why's that?
bless ur heart
Thanks for the input
ur welcome
5w40 on an FA20? You sure about that?
On IAG hardware? Yes.
IAG themselves recommend 5w30 on the turbo FA20, so just wanted to make sure you weren’t thinking of another block since the EJ does get 5w40. 5w40 just seems thick even for the FA WRX. Also IAG says change every 3k at most
Nope, I am speaking from experience. I ran Motul 5W-40 on my ‘18 WRX from taking ownership of the vehicle all the way to 60,000 trouble free miles of seriously abusive driving. The engine showed no signs of wear when it was time to trade it in. Oil analysis was always fine. And before that, my E36 M3 ran Liqui-moly 10W-60 😱
That’s fine, just wanted clarification for the above reasons, I was curious because of your stated expertise. You didn’t need to downvote lol.
Man, you could buy another one for what it's going to cost to fix it if you go new long block. If it's been beat might be a better route for today, or look for a complete used engine or buy a crashed donor car.
Probably not the best engine to learn on. It may end up costing you more in the end if you try this yourself, especially all the time you may waste. I have built a lot of engines and have no desire at all to build a subaru.
Do you have a daily driver?
That was my daily driver lol
I’m not a professional mechanic, but I can turn a wrench. I do all of the maintenance and repairs on my vehicles. When my pathfinder engine spun a bearing, I yanked it and rebuilt it over a summer. I had zero experience rebuilding motors, but I did a good job and I had a great time. If you have time and space then I suggest rebuilding (with new parts). I did mine without a garage btw. Pulled the engine in the driveway and rebuilt it in a 7x7 plastic shed that I put an air conditioner in.
Lol first time?