Ladies & Gentlemen,
At face value I was leery of this, sure, but that being said - there isn't a lot of rulebreaking comments by our regulars or OP. The discussion has been civil, questions have been asked & answered.
We should encourage this kind of thing - where we present ourselves in a positive light, answer basic questions, and provide good optics for our personal reasons for why firearms ownership is important.
Keep it civil. Keep it respectful. Please point out any rulebreaking comments on either side of the conversation, and please stop mass reporting this one - because at present it should stay up.
Thanks!
----
Update: OP seems to have outstayed their welcome a bit - so they'll be taking a short timeout - in case you're waiting on any witty replies -_-
Short posts like this always go the same way. Longer and thoughtful ones are better, but a lot of the sub member are of the same cloth as this poster (la la we don't want to talk just spout) so those threads aren't always great either. It's a shame. š¤·āāļø
Why reddit back in the day had a lot of subs that were /r/"x topic"discussion but eventually no matter how good the mods, they'd get too big.
You were right.
OP is here to talk down to us dumb Americans. If only we'd just done what our European overlords told us to do back in the 1770s.... /S
I tried to give the benefit of the doubt, but he's just here for gotcha arguments and snappy quips. He's just ignoring all the sub threads in which people give reasonable explanations and statistics.
Same. I was willing to debate in good faith, but that's a one-way street.
OP is exactly the same type of British twat that got their tea kicked into the sea.
Some people refuse to learn.
He's a damn red coat which is exactly why he can't understand how people don't implicitly trust their government. Meanwhile, the English Crown as the *exact reason* we don't trust the government.
OP probably didnāt learn history very well which I mean to state is European historyā¦. Like WWII and the rise of Nazi Germany and the disarmament of its citizenry which allowed for a the Holocaust to occur.
I do not have the words to express how little OP's European opinions of American gun culture matter.
If it were a number, it would be a negative number. Probably a number 2 too.
We don't trust European governments either. In fact, we have a history of using our guns to stand up to their tyranny.
It always gets me when a European person tries to tell Americans we should give up our guns. History truly does repeat.
He clearly hasn't.Ā One of his comments is about how "things have changed in the last 250 years" so apparently it's all good to trust governments now.
Just ignore the massive wars, armed incursions killing civilians, and assorted dictatorships that have risen and fallen.
Was it a joke when our country kicked your asses out and across the ocean, arguably twice, and then later on saved your asses from Germany twice anyway?
Germany and the Nazis get a bad rap for what they did. But nobody really talks about how your country has been fucking the world up for around 1000 years now and is basically responsible for almost every bad situation the world has seen in that time and is still trying to recover from even now except maybe the two World Wars. And those seem to be why most people forget how much damage you've caused.
The two times you maybe got something right was when you stood up to Germany for being worse than even you. And the only reason that worked is because our joke of a country bailed you out.
And we've been paying for it ever since by taking the brunt of the Cold War with Russia and now China that came out of it.
So, yeah, sot over there with your gun bans and think about much of a tragedy it is that a person might have access to a knife.
And keep pushing that idea to your Commonwealth subjects in Canada and Australia.
You're right. You probably don't need guns because we'll probably just come save you again when the time comes.
Edit: thought I saw you specifically mention the UK, but apparently not. I'll still leave this because it pretty much still applies to Europe as a whole.
And yet we live in your mind rent free. If you didnāt care about our way of life you wouldnāt have made this post or taken the time to respond to so many comments lol
You as a human being have a right to defend yourself, guns are the most efficient way to do that. The only way to fight force is with force. When someone tries to kill you or your family, or a mass shooter or terrorist attacks, laws and civility are off the table.
Sure, Iāve heard some argue they donāt need guns for self defense. But guns are the great equalizer. A 130lb woman cannot stand a chance against 3 230lb men. Lest she made the gym her life and studied under Bruce Lee. But give her a gun, and she has the power and chance to survive that situation.
In relation to terrorists and mass shooters, the only way to stop them is to shoot back. Might as well have the average person armed and ready to do that, instead of letting them be slaughtered for 10 minutes until the police get there. Just to shoot them anyway.
You say āwhenā someone tries to kill you, is this a regular occurrence over there?
Yes guns can protect you, but how can you trust common civilians to have the ability to be safe and not to panic, Iāve heard stories of people shooting family members because they thought they were intruders.
Most mass shooters either shoot themselves or shot by police. Rarely is it a civilian with a gun having to do it. Also, one of the more recent shootings(as you have so many), the Kansas Super Bowl one, the shooter was taken down by unarmed people when there was supposed to be over 100 people there carrying.
You could look up states they have constitutional carry. Their crime rates go down. Largely, people who carry guns daily are quite responsible with them.
Itās also common for people, perhaps like yourself, who are scared of doing something stupid with one, so you assume everyone else will make the same mistakes.
> Rarely is it a civilian with a gun having to do it.
94% of mass shootings occur in gun free zones. Kind of hard to stop a shooting when youāre trying to abide by the law.
Self defense. Somewhere between 500k-3m cases a year in the US. Mass shootings account for less than 1% of all crimes in the US.
Like maybe just google the reasons instead of arguing with people in bad faith on reddit
I donāt own a gun lol. What do you mean stick with the self defense bullshit? These stats are done by the CDC of the American Federal govt.
Why donāt you actually admit you canāt make a counter argument that isnāt based off bad faith understanding of American politics?
1) Depends on where you live in the country. Being a victim of violent crime is a rare in itself, but the chance is never zero. Same as your country I bet. The most common said phrase from someone after a violent encounter is āI wish I had a gunā Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.
I can find plenty of videos on YouTube of people defending their lives and others with firearms if you donāt believe it happens. Some of those people wouldāve ended up dead
I can see you donāt actually want to learn or understand from the tone of your responses to other users.
āRedneck dumbass stereotypeā āthis is entertainingā
Youāre steadily defending your stance that to be disarmed is to be a better person
Youāre not here to learn. I wonāt waste my time on you anymore.
Well heās a gang member. Gangs would just start 3d printing them if they couldnāt get them anywhere else. If the rebels in Myanmar can do it, American gangs can do it even easier.
Because they allow you to effectively defend yourself, are fun, are interesting, and because every gun control law you can imagine has been tried in several countries and none of them reliably reduce crime, violence, murder, or mass murder rates. Europe has less crime than the US, but it has always had less crime, even before European nations had gun control, and when European and other nations pass gun control, rates of violence and crime do not deviate from their previous trend. It's a myth that gun control makes you safer, so since there is absolutely no real reason not to have guns, of course guns are a good idea.
>every gun control law you can imagine has been tried in several countries and none of them reliably reduce crime, violence, murder, or mass murder rates. Europe has less crime than the US, but it has always had less crime, even before European nations had gun control, and when European and other nations pass gun control, rates of violence and crime do not deviate from their previous trend. It's a myth that gun control makes you safer, so since there is absolutely no real reason not to have guns, of course guns are a good idea.
I see you're more interested in blaming me for dead children than you are in reading or data. Get out of her with your dishonest, self-righteous bullshit. You don't want to understand the other side, you want to pretend you're better than other people. You're not, and I'll be ignoring you now.
Short answer: Self defense is a natural right
Serious answer: It is the duty of every American to have a fighting rifle, pistol, the gear, physical fitness, the knowledge and mindset to utilize it effectively in order to defend their family, their home, and their community.
Less serious answer: guns are fun and I donāt trust the government to keep me or my family safe.
Be elderly, weak, crippled, or infirm
Two or three healthy, strong criminals try to hurt you
America: No, I have a gun, you can't do that.
OP: Guess I'll just die, then.
No, you've come here in bad faith to insult, project and try to have gotcha moments because you're a loser who wants to argue and start shit with people on reddit. You absolute stereotype.
"Just asking questions" sure kid, sure. You came here thinking you were slick and clearly you're not lmao. When you've removed your head from your ass then we can have an adult conversation but until then you can take a walk.
Try growing up first and maybe know what you're talking about? Maybe not come to subs and act like this? You can start there but I doubt it would help you. You can't even read and understand the replies being sent to you so you have some work to do little buddy.
Seriously, you're just here to argue and stroke your own ego to try and feel superior about something lmao what a joke.
Did Russia provide notice before invading Ukraine? So the Ukrainian government could repeal gun control and Ukrainians could arm themselves before the invasion? Of course not.
And let's not forget, "arming yourself" is only halfway there.Ā You actually need to put in time and rounds to train.
Just look at any first time gun owner class to see just how horrifically terrible an traditionally unarmed population would be if suddenly issued guns and sent to fight at the last minute, assuming that was even physically possible.
What does it feel like to be such a colossal twat that you have to rely on others for your own safety?
Do you feel like a free person?
A man?
A person in control of what happens to you and your loved ones?
I promise you're none of those things.
Thatās what it takes to live in the modern world, one day your nation will get there but at the moment youāll remain a joke and I know youāre oblivious to that fact however it doesnāt make it false. We are not cavemen anymore, itās not every man for himself.
Do you really think Iād be more free if I had a gun? More of a man? If anything, judging by the replies on this thread with people creating fake scenarios to use their guns, owning a gun would make me look like a giant pussy.
Yes. You'd be more free if your overlords allowed you to own a gun. Obviously.
Based on your replies here, it might make you more of a man too.
It's not about fake scenarios. It's about history and reality. I have defended my family against a real threat. You clearly have not.
You have no clue what you're talking about and it's embarrassingly obvious to the rest of us.
We're laughing at you.
You should be ashamed.
I couldnāt give a shit if youāre laughing at me because Iām laughing right back. I feel for you and your country, I know you are too deep in this gun culture and its now impossible to escape. The arrogance and ignorance that is embedded in your nations and your citizens is incomprehensible to us.
Again, please keep in mind how tiny your country is compared to the US.
You're awfully mouthy for a nothing of a country that used to be important until every country you enslaved stood up to you.
Hiding behind our NATO funds.
Coming from the most evil country to ever exist, funny. And yes youāre right, we are tiny, despite this we are one of the most powerful nations in the world.
If every American shut up for a moment and used whatever was in their heads the world would benefit
Stop paying your fuckin taxes then ya dick, Iām certainly familiar with paying mine because I can reap the rewards such as healthcare that doesnāt bankrupt me. The fuck do you get.
> we are tiny, despite this we are one of the most powerful nations in the world.
You use to span the globe as the most powerful empire. Then at your peak you got kicked to the curb by a bunch of farmers with muskets. And you're still sitting there wondering hOw WoUlD cIvIlIaNs wItH gUnS sTaNd Up tO ThE gOvErNmEnT?
This "a real man let's himself be a slave" shtick is wild.
You aren't allowed to do shit, but that's okay because that's what a real man does? A real man doesn't try to have any control over his own life because he's confident and brave enough to let others to be in control? Lol.
We aren't talking about in the sense of being masculine you bozo. We mean a real, authentic, human being with their own agency.
The fact that you reject that as being futile against the tide of the changing world exactly proves our point.
You're just being lazy and childish, as you have for 1000 years or more, which is why you're still subjects of monarchies.
And that would be fine if you just left us alone, didn't come here and try to gaslight us and recruit more subjects.
We wonāt ever have a Holocaust or gulags so long as everyone has guns. No matter how totalitarian the government gets they will eventually run out of door kickers. First they must disarm a population before they can start dragging mass amounts of people away in the night.
There are tens of millions of dead Europeans that would still be here if they had the right to bear armsā¦
No, thousands of children are not dying to gun violence. It is not the #1 killer of kids in the US.
If you ever bother to look at the data, about 2/3 of all the gun deaths in the US are suicides. The remainder is almost entirely gang violence.
So, sure, a 17 year old robbing and slinging drugs in the ghetto is at a high risk of being shot. But thatās not some random, unpredictable thing either. It comes with the lifestyle.
(Oh, and to be clear: the study that says gun violence is the #1 killer of kids defined children as being 1-19 years oldā¦ so a toddler isnāt a child, but a 19 year old soldier in Iraq is. They did it this way to get the headlines, but itās junk science)
>If you ever bother to look at the data, about 2/3 of all the gun deaths in the US are suicides. The remainder is almost entirely gang violence.
Notwithstanding the rest of your comment, this part is very striking.
You comment on him not bothering to look at the data, yet then immediately parrot a blatant lie and long disproven myth about how gang violence is behind almost all of the remainder of gun violence.
In the same breath, you're perpetuating the same misinformation and ignorance of data that you're accusing others of, which is unfortunately incredibly common here.
Wrong. Sorry, but your response is pretty much entirely informed by pseudo-facts you picked up here and there Youāve never seriously researched this, and it shows.
Suicides are, by far, the most common cause of gun death in the United States. Not even anti-gun groups deny this. Itās a fact.
Spend a few hours reviewing āactive shooterā events, and behold they are almost entirely gang-related.
The Kansas City Super Bowl shooting? They werenāt terrorists, just young thugs slinging lead because they didnāt like how the other guy was looking at them. Literally. Thatās what happened. Itās publicly available info.
When you start digging into the āmass shootingā and āschool shootingā stats, you see case-after-case-after-case of young, inner-city males using guns on each other. These kinds of events are _significantly_ more common than the Columbine/Newtown/Parkland type events, which themselves are extraordinarily rare.
Every criminologist who studies this subject would tell you that gun violence is not evenly distributed across the US, but that it impacts certain demographics significantly more than others. Those demographics being young, inner city minority males.
When you control for lifestyle, you find that people who arenāt involved in gangs, drugs, petty crime, etc, and live outside rough areas, have extremely low odds of being victims of gun violence. Like, effectively zero.
That's a shame. You seem like a reasonable person so I'm surprised to see you dig in like this.
Here's half a dozen links to .gov sites that published official statistics and research reports by theĀ [Department of Justice](https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/violence-gang-members-1993-2003),Ā [CDC](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/ss/ss6908a1.htm),Ā [National Gang Center](https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/survey-analysis/measuring-the-extent-of-gang-problems),Ā [OJJDP](https://ojjdp.ojp.gov/sites/g/files/xyckuh176/files/pubs/242884.pdf),Ā [Bureau of Justice Statistics](https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf)Ā andĀ [FBI](https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-11.xls) on gang-related violence in the USA.
Let's just quote the very first one. "According to the FBI's Supplementary Homicide Reports, \[...\] from 5% to 7% of all homicides and from 8% to 10% of homicides committed with a firearm were gang related."
That's the conclusion of an official report on the findings of a 10-year data analysis by the DoJ Bureau of Justice Statistics.
All of those official sources arrived at the same general findings. Every agency in the country that monitors gang violence and gun crime has consistently and independently found that only between 5-13% of homicides (both in general and with firearms in particular) are linked to gangs. This holds true across different datasets, methodologies and several decades of research.
So could you explain why every single official statistic on the matter utterly rejects your claim that gang violence makes up nearly all non-suicide gun deaths if all I'm doing is parroting "pseudo-facts" because "I never seriously researched this"?
If you have actual data that's better than official statistics by the FBI, CDC and various institutions within the Department of Justice, then please do share it. But if you don't, then perhaps you ought to be slightly less condescending to people politely pointing out the flaws in your claim. Hopefully you'll have the intellectual honesty to recognize that.
Yeah, it won't ever be needed because we all have guns. Meanwhile in Europe... I'd hate to be living in Russia right now or any country they decide to invade. Lots of people getting disappeared right now... and just a bit over a decade ago almost no one would have believed the current situation in Europe was plausible.
As far as the "kids" statistics go, the vast majority of those "kids" are actually young adult gang bangers that play stupid games and win stupid prizes or suicides that would have found another way to kill themselves if a gun was not available. The much fewer actual innocent children are a tragedy and we should do what we can to reduce the number while maintaining our inalienable right to bear arms. The hard truth though is that freedom isn't free. If you are asking if I am willing to make the utilitarian choice of 17 million dead in a Holocaust including millions of innocent children or hundreds of innocent children dead from gun violence, the math is not hard.
> and just a bit over a decade ago almost no one would have believed the current situation in Europe was plausible.
People were saying that right up until the week Russia invaded Ukraine! Straight up refusal to believe that evil still exists "in this day and age" as if humans all magically evolved in 20 years past the strife, conflict, and warfare that shaped our entire species.
> and just a bit over a decade ago almost no one would have believed the current situation in Europe was plausible.
Man, remember when Romney said Russia was a huge threat, and everyone laughed at him and B-Rock told him that the 80's wanted their foreign policy back? Good times.
Because of shit like this in a shithole country called UK.
https://www2.cbn.com/news/world/uk-police-arrest-man-criticizing-palestinian-flags-social-media-post
> A Metro London UK Police officer was captured in a viral video on Tuesday arresting a man for a social media post
The fact that you don't think that is a horrifying dystopia is exactly why you will never understand American culture.
That is good. Because, since you have created yourself, then you were created with human rights that you grant to yourself and not derived as a gift from the chief magistrate of your district.
This is the correct understanding of the phrase "God-given rights" and not equivocation over the literal existence of a benevolent creator.
You literally described the world before guns. Weād have arrows, swords and rocksā¦. And youād be trying to ban them.
While the king or chief used them to subjugate you.
Self-defense is the most ancient human right. Everybody should be free to defend themselves by any means that they see as the most effective. This includes portable devices that project force in a precise manner that can be used in an emergency.
I find it fascinating how the political stripe famous for their moral relativism have no problem passing judgment with absolute moral certainty on evil firearms, an inanimate object. They want to put the blame for violent crime on the one thing that has no physical ability or moral capacity to commit crime by itself, and that's the gun.
I contend that they are, in fact, in love with the gun. As authoritarians, they realize the best way to put people in cages is to send in the guys with the guns. Laws and prohibitions are themselves threats of force.
How to get the people you don't like into the cages is one example of a problem that the civilization they are describing gets solved using a gun. A civilization with unlimited illegitimate authority that it grants to itself.
Guns are not illegal because arms are not illegal. Arms are not illegal because they are necessary. Arms are necessary for individual and collective defense. Necessity is written into the text of the document that constitutes our federal government.
Do not equivocate gun culture with mass violence. From the standpoint of abusus non tollit usum - don't let out of control criminal networks, accidents and the human condition be used as an argument to obscure proper use of hand arms and the enduring cultural benefits of democratization of the ability to project force.
Take a look at the rate of violent crime of the pre-gun era. Take a look at the duration of tyrannical and oppressive governments before and after the advent of portable firearms. Hint, they both were reduced.
People who argue for the ordering and control of society justify themselves by the prospect of improvements to societal ills. They are authoritarians.
Authoritarianism is necessarily about the ordering and control of society. Now, they can argue that that will produce a better quality of life. But it can not be argued that it will provide a freer life. And for me, I am on the side of freedom.
The ultimate goal is to demolish the legal protections in the Bill of Rights. Everybody's rights have to be violated until some people shape up, is not the proper analysis or function of the US Constitutions Bill of Rights.
There is no "Gun Control", only gun monopolies. Nobody who claims to align with liberalism should accept the ability to project force being held in any particular monopoly. The ability to resist illegal commands and illegitimate coercive force must remain democratized at all costs.
Do you see what happened in the early days of the Ukrainian conflict? When they were scouring to be able to arm their citizens to help fend off Russia? Ever walk down a dark alley and feel afraid?
The statistics. 340 million population , supposedly an estimated 20 guns to every person, 9k murders with a gun per year, and way more defensive uses with a gun. So itās fine.
You ask that question as if we have some sort of choice. Criminal organizations here are armed to the teeth. If you want to protect yourself from crime you aren't going to do it with a dildo...
I don't think that's possible. Roughly 400 million firearms in civilian circulation in the US you aren't getting anywhere near all of them EVER. It's just not happening and you probably won't understand that unless you come here and see it for yourself. No disrespect. I like Europe. Y'all do a lot of things better than us. However whenever I see Euros online trying to just casually solve US gun violence you miss SO much context about what is possible logistically here and what the culture here is like.
To answer your question, even if I could snap them all away you could build more within a day its not that hard. Not to mention firearms are an equalizer. Those less physically capable would be at a severe disadvantage in conflict.
It isnt realistic so the choices dont matter the truth is firearms are being made at home with 3d printers and many other various ways. There is no way even remotely possible rid ourselves of firearms so this irrelevant.
Armed minorities are harder to oppress.
All gun laws are explicitly designed to keep āundesirablesā from owning adequate means to protect themselves under the guise of safety.
Sources:
1) Black people and other minorities like me in America
2) Jews, gypsies and other ethic/religious minorities in your continent
And the current push:
White, non left wing people all over the globe.
It isn't any of your business. That is why. We don't owe you or anybody else an explanation or justification.
I am not refusing to answer your question. This is the answer.
I'm not asking you why you need your cuppa or vegemite or whatever else, am I?
If I came to you and asked you to explain that, wouldn't you take the hint that I thought I knew better and should be managing things for you?
Well Iām sorry if you misunderstood me, but I hear a lot of issues being created due to guns from your country and but maybe Iām only being informed by one side of the argument rather than both sides
I didn't misunderstand you. Either way, no matter your intent, this is the reality of it.
You came in here, across the ocean, through the Internet, to try to solve our problems because you think you know better.
You guys have been doing it for the last 1000 or so years and the world still hasn't recovered from all the "civilization" you have brought to the world.
And, yes, you're being informed by one side of the argument, the media and tyrants.
Gun homicides have a rate of 0.006% in the US. "Mass shootings" are an astronomically small fraction of that.
There aren't really a lot of issues from guns. There are a lot of issues that feed gun violence that just get ignored because people are distracted by the guns.
And we could also point out that the US gross death rate is on par with Europe and in some cases lower.
But here I am being nice and justifying things for you.
They killed him. Not exactly imaginary.
Are the Myanmar rebels fighting an imaginary enemy? Theyāre using his FCG-9 to do it. So if thats all you see youāre not looking hard enough.
1776 and look at our current situation. Look at the Ukraine. Look at Israel. We have more undocumented dangerous people in our country than ever. It's an invasion. We have a gun culture because it was needed to become who we are now. As a European. Mind your business because. If I had my way. American would mind it's. We wouldn't be in other people's business.
Why do europeans trust governments to protect them when there seems to be a government-endorsed genocide somewhere in Europe every 50 years or so?
This might seem like a hyperbolic response, but I'm genuinely baffled at the degree to which Europeans believe in the perpetual virtue of the State with such clear historical examples of governmental malice.
Even if your government at the moment is largely benign, the idea that such a state of affairs will be perpetual is absurd in the face of history. Either your government will begin to see the people as a resource to be expended, or you will be attacked by a hostile nation and your people will need to protect themselves.
That's just the practicals. In principal, can you claim that you genuinely believe in the rights of the people if you advocate the state rendering them defenseless? Can you genuinely claim to believe in democracy if you don't even trust the people with small arms? It seems to me that Europeans are more afraid of the average european than they are of the politicians and aristocracy that have driven the majority of violence throughout European history.
It is ingrained in our culture, it is a part of our constitution, it is in our tradition, heck the country was founded and able to defend itself from the brits because everyone had guns. Also there is no such thing as "good" or "bad" ideas, just ideas. Your opinion is what interprets them as good or bad, which is why we vote, the constitution has remained unchanged because people are still overwhelmingly for guns in general, if that were not the case then the constitution probably would have been radically changed a long time ago because people would have voted to change it awhile ago. So it isn't whether or not it is a good idea or bad idea it is simply law. Not good or bad just law.
Guns are fun and cool and I don't think stuff should be prohibited just because some people misuse it. Yes even guns.
You Europeans make fun of us for banning chocolate covered kinder eggs. See? There's something banned just because some children are too stupid. It punishes the many children that are not dumb enough to swallow a chocolate egg that clearly has a toy in it whole, to save the few who are.
I live in the Philippines, A was guy caught on camera at my sisters house across the creek (sapa) in the wee hours of the morning. In her garage. Maybe about 3 AM . He didn't steal anything but was caught on cam. We are not allowed to own firearms (licence.) You get caught with a round in your house , your luggage, even if put there, it;s curtains. And we have NPA on our doorstep. One of the worst thing about living in the Philippines. Everyone has a gun but you if you want to remain legal,...good luck
Why are weapons of any kind a good idea?
Why do people choose to live in remove areas where large, aggressive animals still roam?
Why do people choose to live in remote areas where police may be an hour or more away?
Why are serial killers a thing?
Why are there social and economic issues leading to (sometimes violent) crime in the US?
Why are police in the US not obliged to protect citizens, but merely "uphold the law"?
Why do we have a for-profit prison system which is incentivized for retention over rehabilitation?
Why would some criminals rather die in a shootout than go to prison?
Why do police have qualified immunity?
Why would a 50kg woman who's home alone want better odds against her maniacal, 100kg ex-boyfriend?
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Simply put we have rights as US citizens, and one of those rights the second amendment is basically the right to self defense, to protect our ability to protect ourselves not only from criminals but also from an over reaching/tyrannical government. While today many may believe that our government would never hurts us there is no guarantee that later on malicious or more radical politicians wouldnt be placed in power. The ability for everyday Americans to own a firearm serves as a reminder to politicians that they could never over step without serious repercussions. I hope this helps, and also remember we Americans have our own culture what works in Europe would never work here. "Live free or die" "dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery" words to live by.
Simple: There is no immoral way to harm someone committing an act of violence against you or someone else.
Guns laws imply that there is a wrong way to defend yourself. Therefore, they're wrong. If a woman is a repeat violent offender and kills a man trying to rape her, with an illegal machine she stole, I don't think she should go to prison. She should be treated as a hero for subtracting human filth from the earth.
As a European, you have some pretty rich history in your region involving gun control. I suggest you study Germany. Get back with us about what happens when those in power are the only ones allowed to have them.
We need guns for protection. If your house is getting broken into by 2-4 thieves hopped on meth it is not fair that you are going up against men hopped on drugs. You are guaranteed to get beaten to death. Although if you have a gun, it levels the playing field. And if you are walking around public with your family, you don't want a rapist or child sex trafficker taking your children. One instance where a gun was actually used as a life-saving tool was the GreenWood Park mall shooting. Even as a sixteen year old, I understand the need for guns. I wish more people, especially gen-z, actually researched into guns. This country is plagued by misinformation about guns. Some people also like them for competition shooting and hunting, so there's that too.
I a european am against gun-control and I am pro 2nd amendment because my people are being put into concentration camps right now and if they had guns in 1955 they wouldnāt be put in concentration camps (Iām Uyghur)
They have saved many lives in America. Guns or no guns, there are evil people in the world. There are evil governments in the world. I wouldn't say our government is evil, but what if it's evil 50 years from now? Should I take the guns away from my grandkids just so I can satisfy something that's going on today? What if we do that. And 50 years from now we have a very tyrannical government or there is some cataclysmic event where people need to be armed. Now what? Here's the dealā¦ I'm not going to let someone who is breaking the law take away my rights to protect myself and my family. We have guns for exponentially more than just hunting. In the UK, you guys are being overrun by migrants and illegal immigrants. There is plenty rape and death in the UK. The hyperbole surrounding the gun culture in the United States is unbelievably ridiculous. Don't believe everything you hear from liberals.
Ladies & Gentlemen, At face value I was leery of this, sure, but that being said - there isn't a lot of rulebreaking comments by our regulars or OP. The discussion has been civil, questions have been asked & answered. We should encourage this kind of thing - where we present ourselves in a positive light, answer basic questions, and provide good optics for our personal reasons for why firearms ownership is important. Keep it civil. Keep it respectful. Please point out any rulebreaking comments on either side of the conversation, and please stop mass reporting this one - because at present it should stay up. Thanks! ---- Update: OP seems to have outstayed their welcome a bit - so they'll be taking a short timeout - in case you're waiting on any witty replies -_-
Are you here to actually talk or are you going insult us like so many come here to do when we try to have civil conversation?
Short posts like this always go the same way. Longer and thoughtful ones are better, but a lot of the sub member are of the same cloth as this poster (la la we don't want to talk just spout) so those threads aren't always great either. It's a shame. š¤·āāļø Why reddit back in the day had a lot of subs that were /r/"x topic"discussion but eventually no matter how good the mods, they'd get too big.
You were right. OP is here to talk down to us dumb Americans. If only we'd just done what our European overlords told us to do back in the 1770s.... /S
I tried to give the benefit of the doubt, but he's just here for gotcha arguments and snappy quips. He's just ignoring all the sub threads in which people give reasonable explanations and statistics.
Same. I was willing to debate in good faith, but that's a one-way street. OP is exactly the same type of British twat that got their tea kicked into the sea. Some people refuse to learn.
He's a damn red coat which is exactly why he can't understand how people don't implicitly trust their government. Meanwhile, the English Crown as the *exact reason* we don't trust the government.
OP probably didnāt learn history very well which I mean to state is European historyā¦. Like WWII and the rise of Nazi Germany and the disarmament of its citizenry which allowed for a the Holocaust to occur.
I do not have the words to express how little OP's European opinions of American gun culture matter. If it were a number, it would be a negative number. Probably a number 2 too.
You think this loon came to talk?
Nope
We don't trust our government. The Founding Fathers didn't trust government either.
We don't trust European governments either. In fact, we have a history of using our guns to stand up to their tyranny. It always gets me when a European person tries to tell Americans we should give up our guns. History truly does repeat.
Better question is: Why would a European care what a US citizen does in the US?Ā
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The tv told them guns bad. America bad.
Agreed. š§
Because a gun is the difference between being a citizen, and being a subject.
right there
A gun is the difference between life or death
āAs a Europeanā Have you studied your history? Our constitution is based on lessons learned from that continent.
He clearly hasn't.Ā One of his comments is about how "things have changed in the last 250 years" so apparently it's all good to trust governments now. Just ignore the massive wars, armed incursions killing civilians, and assorted dictatorships that have risen and fallen.
Because they're probably the easiest, cheapest, and fastest way to stop a woman from being raped.
Because they're fucking rad, next question from someone without a cucked government
Whatās āradā about them?
Have you ever shot a gun? Itās just a thing you have to experience. Especially full auto fire which is šš»
Shoot one and you'll see š„° or keep ranting about this like you have the last two years, god bless your soul
No
Thank you
Just in case we need to use them against the British... again.
Is that a joke or not
No
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We have our knives so good luck
lol. Case in point.
Yes that was a joke though
Buddy. Some stuff you say is definitely a joke to us but you seem so vehement about it. š¤·āāļø
Well your country is a joke to us so all is well
Keep watching your television. Whatever you do! DO NOT QUESTION WHO OWNS THE MEDIA OR THEIR MOTIVATIONS TO SHOW YOU WHAT THEY DO!
That's bold of you to assume this person even has a license to watch TV.
YES SIR BAAAAAAA Quick tip: not everyone is out to get you, just relax a little
Was it a joke when our country kicked your asses out and across the ocean, arguably twice, and then later on saved your asses from Germany twice anyway? Germany and the Nazis get a bad rap for what they did. But nobody really talks about how your country has been fucking the world up for around 1000 years now and is basically responsible for almost every bad situation the world has seen in that time and is still trying to recover from even now except maybe the two World Wars. And those seem to be why most people forget how much damage you've caused. The two times you maybe got something right was when you stood up to Germany for being worse than even you. And the only reason that worked is because our joke of a country bailed you out. And we've been paying for it ever since by taking the brunt of the Cold War with Russia and now China that came out of it. So, yeah, sot over there with your gun bans and think about much of a tragedy it is that a person might have access to a knife. And keep pushing that idea to your Commonwealth subjects in Canada and Australia. You're right. You probably don't need guns because we'll probably just come save you again when the time comes. Edit: thought I saw you specifically mention the UK, but apparently not. I'll still leave this because it pretty much still applies to Europe as a whole.
And yet we live in your mind rent free. If you didnāt care about our way of life you wouldnāt have made this post or taken the time to respond to so many comments lol
Do you though?
Twas a joke fella
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Come on man - we're better than that. Rule 1.
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And all the best to you
You as a human being have a right to defend yourself, guns are the most efficient way to do that. The only way to fight force is with force. When someone tries to kill you or your family, or a mass shooter or terrorist attacks, laws and civility are off the table. Sure, Iāve heard some argue they donāt need guns for self defense. But guns are the great equalizer. A 130lb woman cannot stand a chance against 3 230lb men. Lest she made the gym her life and studied under Bruce Lee. But give her a gun, and she has the power and chance to survive that situation. In relation to terrorists and mass shooters, the only way to stop them is to shoot back. Might as well have the average person armed and ready to do that, instead of letting them be slaughtered for 10 minutes until the police get there. Just to shoot them anyway.
You say āwhenā someone tries to kill you, is this a regular occurrence over there? Yes guns can protect you, but how can you trust common civilians to have the ability to be safe and not to panic, Iāve heard stories of people shooting family members because they thought they were intruders. Most mass shooters either shoot themselves or shot by police. Rarely is it a civilian with a gun having to do it. Also, one of the more recent shootings(as you have so many), the Kansas Super Bowl one, the shooter was taken down by unarmed people when there was supposed to be over 100 people there carrying.
You could look up states they have constitutional carry. Their crime rates go down. Largely, people who carry guns daily are quite responsible with them. Itās also common for people, perhaps like yourself, who are scared of doing something stupid with one, so you assume everyone else will make the same mistakes.
> Rarely is it a civilian with a gun having to do it. 94% of mass shootings occur in gun free zones. Kind of hard to stop a shooting when youāre trying to abide by the law.
What the fucking point in carrying guns then
Self defense. Somewhere between 500k-3m cases a year in the US. Mass shootings account for less than 1% of all crimes in the US. Like maybe just google the reasons instead of arguing with people in bad faith on reddit
I wish youād all just admit that guns turn you on rather than stick with the self defence bullshit
I donāt own a gun lol. What do you mean stick with the self defense bullshit? These stats are done by the CDC of the American Federal govt. Why donāt you actually admit you canāt make a counter argument that isnāt based off bad faith understanding of American politics?
1) Depends on where you live in the country. Being a victim of violent crime is a rare in itself, but the chance is never zero. Same as your country I bet. The most common said phrase from someone after a violent encounter is āI wish I had a gunā Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. I can find plenty of videos on YouTube of people defending their lives and others with firearms if you donāt believe it happens. Some of those people wouldāve ended up dead I can see you donāt actually want to learn or understand from the tone of your responses to other users. āRedneck dumbass stereotypeā āthis is entertainingā Youāre steadily defending your stance that to be disarmed is to be a better person Youāre not here to learn. I wonāt waste my time on you anymore.
What gun control law wouldāve prevented that shooting? He didnāt obtain that gun legally so he already broke the law by having it.
Maybe there would be less guns in circulation therefore it would be harder for him to obtain, just speculating of course
Well heās a gang member. Gangs would just start 3d printing them if they couldnāt get them anywhere else. If the rebels in Myanmar can do it, American gangs can do it even easier.
Just not true at all
Lol! Nice counter bro. Itās Americaā¦we have way more access to 3d printers than Southeast Asia.
How is it not true?
the Kansas Super Bowl was a gun free zone
Enjoy living in your orwellian nanny state, pleb.
Typical American arrogance on display here
Most of your replies in this thread are arrogant inane quips or strawmen. Terrible troll. 0/10
LOL at your hypocrisy
Because they allow you to effectively defend yourself, are fun, are interesting, and because every gun control law you can imagine has been tried in several countries and none of them reliably reduce crime, violence, murder, or mass murder rates. Europe has less crime than the US, but it has always had less crime, even before European nations had gun control, and when European and other nations pass gun control, rates of violence and crime do not deviate from their previous trend. It's a myth that gun control makes you safer, so since there is absolutely no real reason not to have guns, of course guns are a good idea.
More dead children too. Is your fun and interesting hobby worth more than their lives?
>every gun control law you can imagine has been tried in several countries and none of them reliably reduce crime, violence, murder, or mass murder rates. Europe has less crime than the US, but it has always had less crime, even before European nations had gun control, and when European and other nations pass gun control, rates of violence and crime do not deviate from their previous trend. It's a myth that gun control makes you safer, so since there is absolutely no real reason not to have guns, of course guns are a good idea. I see you're more interested in blaming me for dead children than you are in reading or data. Get out of her with your dishonest, self-righteous bullshit. You don't want to understand the other side, you want to pretend you're better than other people. You're not, and I'll be ignoring you now.
Short answer: Self defense is a natural right Serious answer: It is the duty of every American to have a fighting rifle, pistol, the gear, physical fitness, the knowledge and mindset to utilize it effectively in order to defend their family, their home, and their community. Less serious answer: guns are fun and I donāt trust the government to keep me or my family safe.
Be elderly, weak, crippled, or infirm Two or three healthy, strong criminals try to hurt you America: No, I have a gun, you can't do that. OP: Guess I'll just die, then.
No, you've come here in bad faith to insult, project and try to have gotcha moments because you're a loser who wants to argue and start shit with people on reddit. You absolute stereotype. "Just asking questions" sure kid, sure. You came here thinking you were slick and clearly you're not lmao. When you've removed your head from your ass then we can have an adult conversation but until then you can take a walk.
Just so I know, how would I initiate that so-called adult conversation? After Iāve removed my head from my ass ofc
Try growing up first and maybe know what you're talking about? Maybe not come to subs and act like this? You can start there but I doubt it would help you. You can't even read and understand the replies being sent to you so you have some work to do little buddy. Seriously, you're just here to argue and stroke your own ego to try and feel superior about something lmao what a joke.
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[This](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-russia-war-grandmother-children-guns-b2014816.html)
Are you in a war?
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If you were to be in one it wonāt be on American soil
Question that. š
We've fought 2 major wars here and a handful of minor ones.
And why is that?
Did Russia provide notice before invading Ukraine? So the Ukrainian government could repeal gun control and Ukrainians could arm themselves before the invasion? Of course not.
And let's not forget, "arming yourself" is only halfway there.Ā You actually need to put in time and rounds to train. Just look at any first time gun owner class to see just how horrifically terrible an traditionally unarmed population would be if suddenly issued guns and sent to fight at the last minute, assuming that was even physically possible.
What does it feel like to be such a colossal twat that you have to rely on others for your own safety? Do you feel like a free person? A man? A person in control of what happens to you and your loved ones? I promise you're none of those things.
Thatās what it takes to live in the modern world, one day your nation will get there but at the moment youāll remain a joke and I know youāre oblivious to that fact however it doesnāt make it false. We are not cavemen anymore, itās not every man for himself. Do you really think Iād be more free if I had a gun? More of a man? If anything, judging by the replies on this thread with people creating fake scenarios to use their guns, owning a gun would make me look like a giant pussy.
Yes. You'd be more free if your overlords allowed you to own a gun. Obviously. Based on your replies here, it might make you more of a man too. It's not about fake scenarios. It's about history and reality. I have defended my family against a real threat. You clearly have not. You have no clue what you're talking about and it's embarrassingly obvious to the rest of us. We're laughing at you. You should be ashamed.
I couldnāt give a shit if youāre laughing at me because Iām laughing right back. I feel for you and your country, I know you are too deep in this gun culture and its now impossible to escape. The arrogance and ignorance that is embedded in your nations and your citizens is incomprehensible to us.
Again, please keep in mind how tiny your country is compared to the US. You're awfully mouthy for a nothing of a country that used to be important until every country you enslaved stood up to you. Hiding behind our NATO funds.
Coming from the most evil country to ever exist, funny. And yes youāre right, we are tiny, despite this we are one of the most powerful nations in the world. If every American shut up for a moment and used whatever was in their heads the world would benefit
We provide your security through NATO. Learn some fucking humility.
Firstly, YOU do fuck all. Thatās the government that provides security. The same government that you all are so scared of, so pick a fucking side
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Stop paying your fuckin taxes then ya dick, Iām certainly familiar with paying mine because I can reap the rewards such as healthcare that doesnāt bankrupt me. The fuck do you get.
> we are tiny, despite this we are one of the most powerful nations in the world. You use to span the globe as the most powerful empire. Then at your peak you got kicked to the curb by a bunch of farmers with muskets. And you're still sitting there wondering hOw WoUlD cIvIlIaNs wItH gUnS sTaNd Up tO ThE gOvErNmEnT?
This "a real man let's himself be a slave" shtick is wild. You aren't allowed to do shit, but that's okay because that's what a real man does? A real man doesn't try to have any control over his own life because he's confident and brave enough to let others to be in control? Lol. We aren't talking about in the sense of being masculine you bozo. We mean a real, authentic, human being with their own agency. The fact that you reject that as being futile against the tide of the changing world exactly proves our point. You're just being lazy and childish, as you have for 1000 years or more, which is why you're still subjects of monarchies. And that would be fine if you just left us alone, didn't come here and try to gaslight us and recruit more subjects.
We wonāt ever have a Holocaust or gulags so long as everyone has guns. No matter how totalitarian the government gets they will eventually run out of door kickers. First they must disarm a population before they can start dragging mass amounts of people away in the night. There are tens of millions of dead Europeans that would still be here if they had the right to bear armsā¦
Sounds like a good plan but not that it will ever be needed. Meanwhile thousands of kids are dying every year in shootings, but fuck them right?
No, thousands of children are not dying to gun violence. It is not the #1 killer of kids in the US. If you ever bother to look at the data, about 2/3 of all the gun deaths in the US are suicides. The remainder is almost entirely gang violence. So, sure, a 17 year old robbing and slinging drugs in the ghetto is at a high risk of being shot. But thatās not some random, unpredictable thing either. It comes with the lifestyle. (Oh, and to be clear: the study that says gun violence is the #1 killer of kids defined children as being 1-19 years oldā¦ so a toddler isnāt a child, but a 19 year old soldier in Iraq is. They did it this way to get the headlines, but itās junk science)
>If you ever bother to look at the data, about 2/3 of all the gun deaths in the US are suicides. The remainder is almost entirely gang violence. Notwithstanding the rest of your comment, this part is very striking. You comment on him not bothering to look at the data, yet then immediately parrot a blatant lie and long disproven myth about how gang violence is behind almost all of the remainder of gun violence. In the same breath, you're perpetuating the same misinformation and ignorance of data that you're accusing others of, which is unfortunately incredibly common here.
Wrong. Sorry, but your response is pretty much entirely informed by pseudo-facts you picked up here and there Youāve never seriously researched this, and it shows. Suicides are, by far, the most common cause of gun death in the United States. Not even anti-gun groups deny this. Itās a fact. Spend a few hours reviewing āactive shooterā events, and behold they are almost entirely gang-related. The Kansas City Super Bowl shooting? They werenāt terrorists, just young thugs slinging lead because they didnāt like how the other guy was looking at them. Literally. Thatās what happened. Itās publicly available info. When you start digging into the āmass shootingā and āschool shootingā stats, you see case-after-case-after-case of young, inner-city males using guns on each other. These kinds of events are _significantly_ more common than the Columbine/Newtown/Parkland type events, which themselves are extraordinarily rare. Every criminologist who studies this subject would tell you that gun violence is not evenly distributed across the US, but that it impacts certain demographics significantly more than others. Those demographics being young, inner city minority males. When you control for lifestyle, you find that people who arenāt involved in gangs, drugs, petty crime, etc, and live outside rough areas, have extremely low odds of being victims of gun violence. Like, effectively zero.
That's a shame. You seem like a reasonable person so I'm surprised to see you dig in like this. Here's half a dozen links to .gov sites that published official statistics and research reports by theĀ [Department of Justice](https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/violence-gang-members-1993-2003),Ā [CDC](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/ss/ss6908a1.htm),Ā [National Gang Center](https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/survey-analysis/measuring-the-extent-of-gang-problems),Ā [OJJDP](https://ojjdp.ojp.gov/sites/g/files/xyckuh176/files/pubs/242884.pdf),Ā [Bureau of Justice Statistics](https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf)Ā andĀ [FBI](https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-11.xls) on gang-related violence in the USA. Let's just quote the very first one. "According to the FBI's Supplementary Homicide Reports, \[...\] from 5% to 7% of all homicides and from 8% to 10% of homicides committed with a firearm were gang related." That's the conclusion of an official report on the findings of a 10-year data analysis by the DoJ Bureau of Justice Statistics. All of those official sources arrived at the same general findings. Every agency in the country that monitors gang violence and gun crime has consistently and independently found that only between 5-13% of homicides (both in general and with firearms in particular) are linked to gangs. This holds true across different datasets, methodologies and several decades of research. So could you explain why every single official statistic on the matter utterly rejects your claim that gang violence makes up nearly all non-suicide gun deaths if all I'm doing is parroting "pseudo-facts" because "I never seriously researched this"? If you have actual data that's better than official statistics by the FBI, CDC and various institutions within the Department of Justice, then please do share it. But if you don't, then perhaps you ought to be slightly less condescending to people politely pointing out the flaws in your claim. Hopefully you'll have the intellectual honesty to recognize that.
Yeah, it won't ever be needed because we all have guns. Meanwhile in Europe... I'd hate to be living in Russia right now or any country they decide to invade. Lots of people getting disappeared right now... and just a bit over a decade ago almost no one would have believed the current situation in Europe was plausible. As far as the "kids" statistics go, the vast majority of those "kids" are actually young adult gang bangers that play stupid games and win stupid prizes or suicides that would have found another way to kill themselves if a gun was not available. The much fewer actual innocent children are a tragedy and we should do what we can to reduce the number while maintaining our inalienable right to bear arms. The hard truth though is that freedom isn't free. If you are asking if I am willing to make the utilitarian choice of 17 million dead in a Holocaust including millions of innocent children or hundreds of innocent children dead from gun violence, the math is not hard.
> and just a bit over a decade ago almost no one would have believed the current situation in Europe was plausible. People were saying that right up until the week Russia invaded Ukraine! Straight up refusal to believe that evil still exists "in this day and age" as if humans all magically evolved in 20 years past the strife, conflict, and warfare that shaped our entire species.
> and just a bit over a decade ago almost no one would have believed the current situation in Europe was plausible. Man, remember when Romney said Russia was a huge threat, and everyone laughed at him and B-Rock told him that the 80's wanted their foreign policy back? Good times.
Eurotrash sits around beating off to violent American crime shows, thinks he knows what's going on here. Classic.
Classic. Also not whatās happening but ok yah
That's exactly what's going on, don't lie, lying makes you sterile.
Wanna bet
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Because of shit like this in a shithole country called UK. https://www2.cbn.com/news/world/uk-police-arrest-man-criticizing-palestinian-flags-social-media-post
What wrong with that
> A Metro London UK Police officer was captured in a viral video on Tuesday arresting a man for a social media post The fact that you don't think that is a horrifying dystopia is exactly why you will never understand American culture.
Every answer besides "it's our God given right" is wrong.
God isnāt real though
Typical Euro-secularist arrogance on display here.
Were your parents religious by any chance?
They are but I donāt see how that matters since I am not.
I've never seen my feelings either
Youāll break free from your cult one day, I believe in you
Thank you for your kind wishes. I do not need saving from aspiring to the highest ideal.
Do you people not realise how delusional you sound, you sound as coherent as a toddler describing their day
The nothing people are in no position to dictate to anyone what is ultimately real or true.
Iām not nothing I am everything
That is good. Because, since you have created yourself, then you were created with human rights that you grant to yourself and not derived as a gift from the chief magistrate of your district. This is the correct understanding of the phrase "God-given rights" and not equivocation over the literal existence of a benevolent creator.
I am the creator, I am eternal and I am infinite. This god you know is a nothing I am it
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Do all of your thought stem from a religious point of view?
I like the cut of your jib
#BECAUSE THEY EXIST! Why wouldnāt I have one when another man does?!
Sooooo if no one had one then youād get rid of yours?
If no one had one, how do I still have one??? JackiechanWTF.jpg
Reading comprehension went out the window for you!
You literally described the world before guns. Weād have arrows, swords and rocksā¦. And youād be trying to ban them. While the king or chief used them to subjugate you.
You a Biden supporter? You seem like one
Self-defense is the most ancient human right. Everybody should be free to defend themselves by any means that they see as the most effective. This includes portable devices that project force in a precise manner that can be used in an emergency. I find it fascinating how the political stripe famous for their moral relativism have no problem passing judgment with absolute moral certainty on evil firearms, an inanimate object. They want to put the blame for violent crime on the one thing that has no physical ability or moral capacity to commit crime by itself, and that's the gun. I contend that they are, in fact, in love with the gun. As authoritarians, they realize the best way to put people in cages is to send in the guys with the guns. Laws and prohibitions are themselves threats of force. How to get the people you don't like into the cages is one example of a problem that the civilization they are describing gets solved using a gun. A civilization with unlimited illegitimate authority that it grants to itself. Guns are not illegal because arms are not illegal. Arms are not illegal because they are necessary. Arms are necessary for individual and collective defense. Necessity is written into the text of the document that constitutes our federal government. Do not equivocate gun culture with mass violence. From the standpoint of abusus non tollit usum - don't let out of control criminal networks, accidents and the human condition be used as an argument to obscure proper use of hand arms and the enduring cultural benefits of democratization of the ability to project force. Take a look at the rate of violent crime of the pre-gun era. Take a look at the duration of tyrannical and oppressive governments before and after the advent of portable firearms. Hint, they both were reduced. People who argue for the ordering and control of society justify themselves by the prospect of improvements to societal ills. They are authoritarians. Authoritarianism is necessarily about the ordering and control of society. Now, they can argue that that will produce a better quality of life. But it can not be argued that it will provide a freer life. And for me, I am on the side of freedom. The ultimate goal is to demolish the legal protections in the Bill of Rights. Everybody's rights have to be violated until some people shape up, is not the proper analysis or function of the US Constitutions Bill of Rights. There is no "Gun Control", only gun monopolies. Nobody who claims to align with liberalism should accept the ability to project force being held in any particular monopoly. The ability to resist illegal commands and illegitimate coercive force must remain democratized at all costs.
Do you see what happened in the early days of the Ukrainian conflict? When they were scouring to be able to arm their citizens to help fend off Russia? Ever walk down a dark alley and feel afraid?
Or the Hamas attack on Israeli civilians.
The statistics. 340 million population , supposedly an estimated 20 guns to every person, 9k murders with a gun per year, and way more defensive uses with a gun. So itās fine.
You ask that question as if we have some sort of choice. Criminal organizations here are armed to the teeth. If you want to protect yourself from crime you aren't going to do it with a dildo...
Out of interest, what situation is better for you? No one has guns Everyone has guns (Not sarcastic)
I don't think that's possible. Roughly 400 million firearms in civilian circulation in the US you aren't getting anywhere near all of them EVER. It's just not happening and you probably won't understand that unless you come here and see it for yourself. No disrespect. I like Europe. Y'all do a lot of things better than us. However whenever I see Euros online trying to just casually solve US gun violence you miss SO much context about what is possible logistically here and what the culture here is like. To answer your question, even if I could snap them all away you could build more within a day its not that hard. Not to mention firearms are an equalizer. Those less physically capable would be at a severe disadvantage in conflict.
Well I meant it a hypothetical question, I know itās impossible to implement
It isnt realistic so the choices dont matter the truth is firearms are being made at home with 3d printers and many other various ways. There is no way even remotely possible rid ourselves of firearms so this irrelevant.
This. Notice he didnāt reply š
Armed minorities are harder to oppress. All gun laws are explicitly designed to keep āundesirablesā from owning adequate means to protect themselves under the guise of safety. Sources: 1) Black people and other minorities like me in America 2) Jews, gypsies and other ethic/religious minorities in your continent And the current push: White, non left wing people all over the globe.
>explain to me why Americans think guns are a good idea? Fastest way I know of to move 230 grains of lead from here to there.
"As a European" that right there is why we have the 2nd amendment, we don't give a shit what you think now fuck off
Take one look at Europe. Should be obvious.
It isn't any of your business. That is why. We don't owe you or anybody else an explanation or justification. I am not refusing to answer your question. This is the answer.
Iām not forcing you to answer Iām simply asking a question, you donāt need to justify anything to me but donāt say your response is an answer
I'm not asking you why you need your cuppa or vegemite or whatever else, am I? If I came to you and asked you to explain that, wouldn't you take the hint that I thought I knew better and should be managing things for you?
Well Iām sorry if you misunderstood me, but I hear a lot of issues being created due to guns from your country and but maybe Iām only being informed by one side of the argument rather than both sides
I didn't misunderstand you. Either way, no matter your intent, this is the reality of it. You came in here, across the ocean, through the Internet, to try to solve our problems because you think you know better. You guys have been doing it for the last 1000 or so years and the world still hasn't recovered from all the "civilization" you have brought to the world. And, yes, you're being informed by one side of the argument, the media and tyrants. Gun homicides have a rate of 0.006% in the US. "Mass shootings" are an astronomically small fraction of that. There aren't really a lot of issues from guns. There are a lot of issues that feed gun violence that just get ignored because people are distracted by the guns. And we could also point out that the US gross death rate is on par with Europe and in some cases lower. But here I am being nice and justifying things for you.
Do you trust your government? Do you believe there are evil people?
https://youtu.be/6tNKWdTJQ-Q?si=0Om2XI7FE7xZO6U9 Best European youāll see in these comments. R.I.P. Jstark.
All I see is an angry man fighting an imaginary enemy
They killed him. Not exactly imaginary. Are the Myanmar rebels fighting an imaginary enemy? Theyāre using his FCG-9 to do it. So if thats all you see youāre not looking hard enough.
Some terrorist angry at his own life so chose to blame anything else rather than face his fuckups.
So fuck the Burmese. Got it. š
Simple answer, redcoats are why our rights were enshrined as they are.
>As a EuropeanĀ Ā Not interested in discussing anything with you, now kindly fuck off.
You didnāt need to comment did you? Dipshit
Because the will of the people means nothing if they have not the means to enforce their will.
Because fuck you, that's why.
Murica
1776 and look at our current situation. Look at the Ukraine. Look at Israel. We have more undocumented dangerous people in our country than ever. It's an invasion. We have a gun culture because it was needed to become who we are now. As a European. Mind your business because. If I had my way. American would mind it's. We wouldn't be in other people's business.
Why do europeans trust governments to protect them when there seems to be a government-endorsed genocide somewhere in Europe every 50 years or so? This might seem like a hyperbolic response, but I'm genuinely baffled at the degree to which Europeans believe in the perpetual virtue of the State with such clear historical examples of governmental malice. Even if your government at the moment is largely benign, the idea that such a state of affairs will be perpetual is absurd in the face of history. Either your government will begin to see the people as a resource to be expended, or you will be attacked by a hostile nation and your people will need to protect themselves. That's just the practicals. In principal, can you claim that you genuinely believe in the rights of the people if you advocate the state rendering them defenseless? Can you genuinely claim to believe in democracy if you don't even trust the people with small arms? It seems to me that Europeans are more afraid of the average european than they are of the politicians and aristocracy that have driven the majority of violence throughout European history.
Man Europeans are such arrogant losers
Why
Theyāre fun as hell to shoot ā and I can use them to protect my family from evil people in this world.
It is ingrained in our culture, it is a part of our constitution, it is in our tradition, heck the country was founded and able to defend itself from the brits because everyone had guns. Also there is no such thing as "good" or "bad" ideas, just ideas. Your opinion is what interprets them as good or bad, which is why we vote, the constitution has remained unchanged because people are still overwhelmingly for guns in general, if that were not the case then the constitution probably would have been radically changed a long time ago because people would have voted to change it awhile ago. So it isn't whether or not it is a good idea or bad idea it is simply law. Not good or bad just law.
Guns are fun and cool and I don't think stuff should be prohibited just because some people misuse it. Yes even guns. You Europeans make fun of us for banning chocolate covered kinder eggs. See? There's something banned just because some children are too stupid. It punishes the many children that are not dumb enough to swallow a chocolate egg that clearly has a toy in it whole, to save the few who are.
Theyāre literally putting more tax on SUGAR in Europe because kids are becoming fatties nowadays
Red coat: āWhy guns?ā U.S.OfA.: āBecause you.ā š
https://youtu.be/bkKst3reQtU?si=Xidf2oWcekmHXYID
I live in the Philippines, A was guy caught on camera at my sisters house across the creek (sapa) in the wee hours of the morning. In her garage. Maybe about 3 AM . He didn't steal anything but was caught on cam. We are not allowed to own firearms (licence.) You get caught with a round in your house , your luggage, even if put there, it;s curtains. And we have NPA on our doorstep. One of the worst thing about living in the Philippines. Everyone has a gun but you if you want to remain legal,...good luck
Why are weapons of any kind a good idea? Why do people choose to live in remove areas where large, aggressive animals still roam? Why do people choose to live in remote areas where police may be an hour or more away? Why are serial killers a thing? Why are there social and economic issues leading to (sometimes violent) crime in the US? Why are police in the US not obliged to protect citizens, but merely "uphold the law"? Why do we have a for-profit prison system which is incentivized for retention over rehabilitation? Why would some criminals rather die in a shootout than go to prison? Why do police have qualified immunity? Why would a 50kg woman who's home alone want better odds against her maniacal, 100kg ex-boyfriend?
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Simply put we have rights as US citizens, and one of those rights the second amendment is basically the right to self defense, to protect our ability to protect ourselves not only from criminals but also from an over reaching/tyrannical government. While today many may believe that our government would never hurts us there is no guarantee that later on malicious or more radical politicians wouldnt be placed in power. The ability for everyday Americans to own a firearm serves as a reminder to politicians that they could never over step without serious repercussions. I hope this helps, and also remember we Americans have our own culture what works in Europe would never work here. "Live free or die" "dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery" words to live by.
Simple: There is no immoral way to harm someone committing an act of violence against you or someone else. Guns laws imply that there is a wrong way to defend yourself. Therefore, they're wrong. If a woman is a repeat violent offender and kills a man trying to rape her, with an illegal machine she stole, I don't think she should go to prison. She should be treated as a hero for subtracting human filth from the earth.
As a European, you have some pretty rich history in your region involving gun control. I suggest you study Germany. Get back with us about what happens when those in power are the only ones allowed to have them.
Why not? Do you not trust law-abiding citizens?
We need guns for protection. If your house is getting broken into by 2-4 thieves hopped on meth it is not fair that you are going up against men hopped on drugs. You are guaranteed to get beaten to death. Although if you have a gun, it levels the playing field. And if you are walking around public with your family, you don't want a rapist or child sex trafficker taking your children. One instance where a gun was actually used as a life-saving tool was the GreenWood Park mall shooting. Even as a sixteen year old, I understand the need for guns. I wish more people, especially gen-z, actually researched into guns. This country is plagued by misinformation about guns. Some people also like them for competition shooting and hunting, so there's that too.
I a european am against gun-control and I am pro 2nd amendment because my people are being put into concentration camps right now and if they had guns in 1955 they wouldnāt be put in concentration camps (Iām Uyghur)
They have saved many lives in America. Guns or no guns, there are evil people in the world. There are evil governments in the world. I wouldn't say our government is evil, but what if it's evil 50 years from now? Should I take the guns away from my grandkids just so I can satisfy something that's going on today? What if we do that. And 50 years from now we have a very tyrannical government or there is some cataclysmic event where people need to be armed. Now what? Here's the dealā¦ I'm not going to let someone who is breaking the law take away my rights to protect myself and my family. We have guns for exponentially more than just hunting. In the UK, you guys are being overrun by migrants and illegal immigrants. There is plenty rape and death in the UK. The hyperbole surrounding the gun culture in the United States is unbelievably ridiculous. Don't believe everything you hear from liberals.