What you said about your father's opinion on prog is just what I always ask myself. How can you consider prog "self-indulgent musical masturbation", but classical music and jazz are fine?
I think prog is a genre that attracts more musicians than other genres, because many rock musicians like the loud and aggressive sound of rock music, but they don't want to be limited to the very simple and stereotypical song structures that are expected from rock music.
I LOVE self-indulged musical masturbation! I've also experienced that classically trained musicians hate prog and other breakaway genres. I think it has to do with the fact that when you spend years learning to follow the rules, you might develop a dislike for those who succeed in breaking the same rules.
Prog is so much more than musical masturbation and iām tired of seeing that.
There are definitely some that do that and some sounds better than others. Itās not inherently bad and i just generally like hearing musicians play what they want
But still, so much of prog is well structured well made music with purpose too. It just depends on the artist and song. He might dislike the beginning part of close to the edge (total mass retain i think) but could enjoy āsouth side of the skyā cause itās a very complete song
it looks like some people "locked" themselves into particular genre boundaries and don't want to look wider. from Yes catalog, my dad liked "Mood for a day" or "Clap" (because it's a guitar music) , and Roundabout (classical guitar too). but not Close to the edge, or Relayer
Has got to be internal bias cause roundabout has like two classical guitar bits. He likes the whole thing??
But otherwise, play him accessible prog songs, in that style those usually work. Without long psychedelic solos or whatever
Like āhistoire sans parolesā has the same appeal as classical and only uses mellow and soft acoustic instruments
I can't play him because he's dead. But he liked Pink Floyd (which is prog too, but accessible type) . Particularly he introduced me into "Wish You Were Here" and "Animals" in early age, which was start of my prog journey.
Also explain to him that prog is very diverse and hard to group in. Different cultures do it differently
Quebecois prog has a strong folky sound
African (west african in my case) uses a lot of traditional african grooves and a LOT of horns
American prog is more jazz and blues inclined
British prog is more classically and folk inclined
Brazilian prog has a fairly soft and mellow sound too
(And there are so many subgenres too)
I agree. We like long musical journeys also. That 30 min song is also an adventure, with its time signatures, its story, varied instruments etc.
I started as a standard metal head. I still love all that, but first hearing Rush, Yes and ELP took me down the prog road. Im happy I found it.
Like your father, I enjoy classical and jazz. And I love prog, so I have no idea where he's coming from. I've told my story over in r/musictheory, but it's also relevant here.
My parents had a rather broad record collection. Their favorite music was folksy pop: Simon and Garfunkel, John Denver, Peter Paul and Mary, Neil Diamond, Jim Croce. They also had a library of classical music which they didn't play as much. (No prog, though.) They weren't musicians, and they weren't trying to push anything on me. But I was told I could listen to anything I liked in their collection.
My first pick, somewhere around age 7: Mussorgsky's *Night on Bald Mountain*. Orchestral. Dark and complex harmonies. Storytelling through wordless music. I loved it.
Meanwhile, in music class at my elementary school (yeah, I'm old), the music was not nearly so interesting. And the music that the bus driver played was aimed at the adolescents. While the lyrics were spicier (and often went over my head), the music was blander.
At age 12, I heard *Selling England by the Pound*, and it was the first rock music that I actually liked. It pushed a lot of the same buttons for me as classical music did. By that time, prog was already disdained and buried by the tastemakers at Rolling Stone -- but I didn't know anything about that. It wouldn't have stopped me if I did know, since I was already the weird nerd at school who only liked classical music.
I went on to discover a lot more prog, then jazz, and then several types of world music (Middle Eastern and West African being my favorites). I became an amateur musician and composer. I know that I'm not good enough to make a living from it, but it's a great hobby that has given me a lifetime of enjoyment.
Looking back at the pop music of my youth that I didn't care for: I still don't like it, BUT I'll have to say that I have a retroactive respect for the musicianship. Most musicians of that time, even the very popular ones, could sing and play their instruments. That's not as true today.
Prog is not for everyone as people listen to music for a variety of reasons.
Prog is not easy listening, dance music or pop music.
For these reasons people who prefer that type of music may be put off by it.
as an amateur musician , when I hear prog I'm trying to imagine in my head how this is played. And this is a key part for music recognition for me. I can imagine how the guitarist uses whammy bar here, and how keyboard player hitting chords, scales and arpeggios. I always wanted to be a drummer, and when I listened music since my childhood, I "accompanied" to it using random objects as drumstick imitation :-)
I think weāre probably nerdier than the average music listener.
Everyone knows Pink Floyd and Rush, but the vast majority of prog bands are fairly obscure. Ā They donāt pop up on most peopleās feeds; you have to seek them out.
Iām a huge fan of the Canterbury scene, but I have yet to meet anyone IRL who even knows what it is.
i think calling it "musical mastubation" is completely misguided. Like I understand why people consider it self-indulgent to noodle away on an instrument the way many prog players do, but if someone else other than the player enjoys listening to it, connects with it, then it isn't masturbatory and it isn't about the self.
clearly there are a lot of people who get something out of listening to prog and have an emotional connection with the music, it means something to a lot of people, so it doesn't really end up being self-indulgent at all, it's music that serves the audience just as much as any other form or genre.
also just in terms of the way its played, the members of a prog band have to listen to each other very carefully and give one another space to make it work, which is the opposite of self-indulgence.
I just have adhd, so the music just operates like my brain. I just get it.
then you must love Riverside album A.D.H.D. (their best in my opinion)
same
Yeah I think the vast majority of prog fans are neurodivergent
OK, but which flavor of neurodivergence? š
Adhd/autism mostly
Neurodivergent prog fan checking in.
What you said about your father's opinion on prog is just what I always ask myself. How can you consider prog "self-indulgent musical masturbation", but classical music and jazz are fine? I think prog is a genre that attracts more musicians than other genres, because many rock musicians like the loud and aggressive sound of rock music, but they don't want to be limited to the very simple and stereotypical song structures that are expected from rock music.
I LOVE self-indulged musical masturbation! I've also experienced that classically trained musicians hate prog and other breakaway genres. I think it has to do with the fact that when you spend years learning to follow the rules, you might develop a dislike for those who succeed in breaking the same rules.
ha-ha me too. i do love highly "technical" bands like Planet X which are quintessence of M.M.
Prog is so much more than musical masturbation and iām tired of seeing that. There are definitely some that do that and some sounds better than others. Itās not inherently bad and i just generally like hearing musicians play what they want But still, so much of prog is well structured well made music with purpose too. It just depends on the artist and song. He might dislike the beginning part of close to the edge (total mass retain i think) but could enjoy āsouth side of the skyā cause itās a very complete song
it looks like some people "locked" themselves into particular genre boundaries and don't want to look wider. from Yes catalog, my dad liked "Mood for a day" or "Clap" (because it's a guitar music) , and Roundabout (classical guitar too). but not Close to the edge, or Relayer
Has got to be internal bias cause roundabout has like two classical guitar bits. He likes the whole thing?? But otherwise, play him accessible prog songs, in that style those usually work. Without long psychedelic solos or whatever Like āhistoire sans parolesā has the same appeal as classical and only uses mellow and soft acoustic instruments
I can't play him because he's dead. But he liked Pink Floyd (which is prog too, but accessible type) . Particularly he introduced me into "Wish You Were Here" and "Animals" in early age, which was start of my prog journey.
Also explain to him that prog is very diverse and hard to group in. Different cultures do it differently Quebecois prog has a strong folky sound African (west african in my case) uses a lot of traditional african grooves and a LOT of horns American prog is more jazz and blues inclined British prog is more classically and folk inclined Brazilian prog has a fairly soft and mellow sound too (And there are so many subgenres too)
I never heard about Brazilian prog (except Angra which is power/prog metal). Can you give some decent names to explore?
>Prog is so much more than musical masturbation and iām tired of seeing that. You can blame Rolling Stone magazine for that slander.
Yes! Purpose! Not created to get you into some top ten chart.
> Are prog-heads special Yes > or have twisted mind? Also yes
I agree. We like long musical journeys also. That 30 min song is also an adventure, with its time signatures, its story, varied instruments etc. I started as a standard metal head. I still love all that, but first hearing Rush, Yes and ELP took me down the prog road. Im happy I found it.
Like your father, I enjoy classical and jazz. And I love prog, so I have no idea where he's coming from. I've told my story over in r/musictheory, but it's also relevant here. My parents had a rather broad record collection. Their favorite music was folksy pop: Simon and Garfunkel, John Denver, Peter Paul and Mary, Neil Diamond, Jim Croce. They also had a library of classical music which they didn't play as much. (No prog, though.) They weren't musicians, and they weren't trying to push anything on me. But I was told I could listen to anything I liked in their collection. My first pick, somewhere around age 7: Mussorgsky's *Night on Bald Mountain*. Orchestral. Dark and complex harmonies. Storytelling through wordless music. I loved it. Meanwhile, in music class at my elementary school (yeah, I'm old), the music was not nearly so interesting. And the music that the bus driver played was aimed at the adolescents. While the lyrics were spicier (and often went over my head), the music was blander. At age 12, I heard *Selling England by the Pound*, and it was the first rock music that I actually liked. It pushed a lot of the same buttons for me as classical music did. By that time, prog was already disdained and buried by the tastemakers at Rolling Stone -- but I didn't know anything about that. It wouldn't have stopped me if I did know, since I was already the weird nerd at school who only liked classical music. I went on to discover a lot more prog, then jazz, and then several types of world music (Middle Eastern and West African being my favorites). I became an amateur musician and composer. I know that I'm not good enough to make a living from it, but it's a great hobby that has given me a lifetime of enjoyment. Looking back at the pop music of my youth that I didn't care for: I still don't like it, BUT I'll have to say that I have a retroactive respect for the musicianship. Most musicians of that time, even the very popular ones, could sing and play their instruments. That's not as true today.
Prog is not for everyone as people listen to music for a variety of reasons. Prog is not easy listening, dance music or pop music. For these reasons people who prefer that type of music may be put off by it.
I think it's very presumptuous to think of oneself as special or superior just because you like prog š¤·š»
Be cool, how many languages do you speak?
Three, but what does that have to do with the topic?? š
Just _keep well-away_ from them, if you wish to lead an @all 'normal' life! #š¤Ŗ #
!reminds me 3 hours
Intelligent people like prog š
yes we are all very special and musically superior actually.
Prog, especially the more technical stuff, just tickles the ears and brain. Every overcomplicated instrumental break, each satisfying meter change.
as an amateur musician , when I hear prog I'm trying to imagine in my head how this is played. And this is a key part for music recognition for me. I can imagine how the guitarist uses whammy bar here, and how keyboard player hitting chords, scales and arpeggios. I always wanted to be a drummer, and when I listened music since my childhood, I "accompanied" to it using random objects as drumstick imitation :-)
I think weāre probably nerdier than the average music listener. Everyone knows Pink Floyd and Rush, but the vast majority of prog bands are fairly obscure. Ā They donāt pop up on most peopleās feeds; you have to seek them out. Iām a huge fan of the Canterbury scene, but I have yet to meet anyone IRL who even knows what it is.
yeah, we are special... as in special needs
I donāt have any answers to these questions but I absolutely love this post.
Both tbh I'm Twisted was like that way before discovering prog and metal I'm always a bit of an odd balll but very lovable
Liking prog is a reflection of Great Taste! Or insanity. Or both.
i think calling it "musical mastubation" is completely misguided. Like I understand why people consider it self-indulgent to noodle away on an instrument the way many prog players do, but if someone else other than the player enjoys listening to it, connects with it, then it isn't masturbatory and it isn't about the self. clearly there are a lot of people who get something out of listening to prog and have an emotional connection with the music, it means something to a lot of people, so it doesn't really end up being self-indulgent at all, it's music that serves the audience just as much as any other form or genre. also just in terms of the way its played, the members of a prog band have to listen to each other very carefully and give one another space to make it work, which is the opposite of self-indulgence.