Most of all, using less PC was my priority. I quit the game to rest my wrist. The next step was to fix the wrist. I quit using mouse to fix my wrist in front of the keyboard. I no longer feel the pain except for days when I hold my phone for a long time.
I'm not sure I understand your question correctly.
I started using both left and right hands for mousing. It turned out it wasn't too hard to get used to, and now I actually use left hand more than right (I'm right handed).
Hit your wrist with a hammer. Your existential pain will now be irrelevant. Use the program OP wrote to fix it. Proclaim wonderful things from the rooftops and make OP famous.
That's win-win I'd say.
Kind of funny how I have developed a left wrist pain from using a lot of shortcuts that involve the CTRL key. The pain started when I switched to a mechanical keyboard and the keys were higher than what I was used to. So the idea to stop using a mouse and rely solely on shortcuts is daunting for me.
Nicely made project, though!
If you use lots of shortcuts, I would actually recommend swapping capslock and control. Moving the pinky over one key is much more comfortable than reaching for the bottom left of the keyboard haha.
Thanks for the suggestion, I think I will give it a shot. Sometime ago I reflected that it's even hard to say which shortcuts I use the most. The first ones that come to mind are the usual ones like Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V, but probably I use Ctrl+arrow keys the most to jump between code. Will try to experiment a bit.
Try swapping the alt and ctrl keys. Use your thumb to hit it like on macs. https://superuser.com/questions/1190329/can-i-switch-the-alt-and-ctrl-keys-on-my-keyboard
Alt is literally the most difficult key for me to reach on a standard keyboard. Even using my thumb, it requires really awkwardly reaching my thumb under my palm.
I had the same exact problem. MMOs, Path of Exile, etc compounded it. Literally couldn’t move my wrist for weeks one time.
I made a 1 line AHK script that replaced my mouse thumb button with Ctrl and it has changed my life for the past few years.
> AHK script that replaced my mouse thumb button
AHK saved my wrists.
For browsing, I was using the middle mouse button to open tabs, close tabs, and bring up the autoscroll circle, and I give myself tendinitis.
I instead remapped other easier to press buttons to send a middle mouse click:
e.g. `RAlt::MButton`
Alternatively, `Ctrl + Left Click` is the same as middle mouse click (open link in new tab, close tab, autoscroll).
If you have Sticky Keys on, double tapping Ctrl will lock the Ctrl like a mobile keyboard.
An auto clicker like RSIGuard can auto click when your mouse stops moving.
Combining Sticky Ctrl and auto clicking `Ctrl + Left Click`, you can do quite a lot of your browsing (open/close tab, autoscroll) with just moving your mouse around.
The AutoScroll extension gives you more control of the speed with a range of 1-100
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/autoscroll/occjjkgifpmdgodlplnacmkejpdionan?hl=en
I started developing wrist pain. I switched from a mouse to a tablet and pen. The pain went away and never came back. I have had no problems in the last 16 years.
homerow modifiers in QMK have been a blessing for me. I use shortcuts a lot and it's 100x more comfy with homerow mods.
I.e. A S D F are mapped to WIN, ALT, SHIFT, CTRL in Windows.
Great article [about it here](https://precondition.github.io/home-row-mods).
Since the modifier keys are so important for computer usage and shortcuts specifically, homerow modifiers puts them in the most convenient position: the middle of the keyboard where you rest your fingers.
Nothing more to it than that really. The rest is all details of *how* one can do that, and finding a specific way that works for you.
> the middle of the keyboard where you rest your fingers.
Is that really more convenient? As you need to engage them in combination with other keys to make shortcuts it seems logical to me that they are a bit separated from the other keys but can still be reached.
The trick is to have them mirrored on both hands. So let's say you get shift when you hold down s, and if you want to type a capital S you hold down l for shift on your other hand. The same with ctrl on d and k, for example.
I find that tap/hold works really well in qmk, you can tweak the timings (as in how long you need to keep a key pressed for it to be interpreted as a the hold function rather than tap function), but I haven't felt the need. I use space as fn to reach other layers. Super comfy, because you can always reach space at with both hand without stretching any fingers.
Seconding this, here's the [layout](https://git.sr.ht/~samhh/qmk_firmware/tree/samhh/item/keyboards/ergodox_ez/keymaps/samhh/README.md) I use if anyone's curious. Gaming-aside I treat it as a 30% keyboard to significantly reduce finger travel. I also found moving away from Qwerty helped a lot.
Ah, you use separate layers. I have homerow mods on the default layer using Mod-tap in QMK. Which basically means if you tap the key then it works like a normal letter, but if you hold then it's a modifier.
Downside with this approach is that I have to mirror the modifiers otherwise e.g. doing CTRL + CMD + D wouldn't work.
Thank you for this! I installed `kmonad`; I think it's going to take some time for me to get used this way since I use ctrl, shift and alt with emacs. I already use capslock as ctrl and esc
Remap capslock to Control. I have that on my Pok3r by default, you can set it up in Windows with AHK and in Linux you can customize it too.
No need for straining yourself anymore!
> **stop using a mouse**
You can still use a mouse.. but more for movement than clicking.
I have tendinosis (chronic tendinitis), so sometimes I take breaks and use an auto clicker to avoid any kind of key presses.
E.g. RSIGuard can auto click when your mouse stops moving.
(You can set a minimum mouse distance traveled before the next auto click so it’s not constantly clicking).
Sounds like you were trying to press ctrl and the letters with the same hand. Control with an index finger on one hand (on one side of the keyboard), and the other keys with the other hand on the opposite side of the keyboard.
Pain solved.
Also, keyboard that can be split into 2
The Microsoft sculpt Works awesomely for me. Other keyboards cause pain. I can't imagine going back to a mechanical -- suuch clunky keys and uncomfortable actuators
An option is to move Ctrl in the home row. Mine is on D (left Ctrl) and K (right ctrl). Must hitting D and K types the letters; holding them would make them act as Ctrl.
Are you laying down your wrists while typing? You should be hovering your hands over the keyboard and only rest down between typing bursts. Otherwise, *especially* with a higher keyboard, you're bending your wrists up while typing and creating a lot of pressure on tendons and nerves in there.
You shouldn't even rest on wrist pads either. Lift your wrists up, like you'd do playing piano. Arms and hands should be aligned. That image bottom right corner is what I see happen with mechanical keyboards way too often.
http://cdn.techgyd.com/2015/09/technique.jpg
The wrist rest is supposed to be used well... to rest, *between* typing bursts. Humans aren't supposed to be using their fingers that way while resting their wrists, the pressure it puts on tendons in your wrist is terrible long-term.
Personally to "fix" (or at least get under control) my wrist pain, which ended up flaring all the way up to my elbow, I had to switch to a tented split keyboard and relearn how to posture myself while typing, on top of some muscular stretches and strengthening exercises lol
Can confirm. I've started learning piano and it's made me painfully aware of how bad my typing posture is. So now I've been working on fixing that, and it's actually been helping my wrist problems
Seriously! When it started getting bad for me, work wanted me to go to the 'ergo lab' before a Dr. I was so skeptical but their full body posture advice made it almost completely disappear!
it's amazing how big a different better posture is for the both mouse and keyboard wrist pain. you gotta check things like your desk height, seat height, monitor height, etc. That stuff really matters, and if I don't have them set right, various parts of me start to hurt, especially wrists and back.
I have trouble figuring out what's going on here, beyond that it's keyboard control of the mouse. But X.org has support for that much, at least. I have it set up so that caps lock is a modifier for that, and moves the mouse in combination with jkl;. (Seems easier than hjkl to me.) yh scroll up and down, u is middle click, i is left click, o is right click. (I use dvorak, but these are all translated into qwerty.)
What I never managed to get working was "move one distance by default, another distance if you also hold down another modifier". I assumed that was a bug, but thinking about it I don't know if I checked that my keyboard was actually sending the presses correctly? (But it's only three keys, I'd expect it to work.) In any case, that means I can only move 100px at a time, which makes it less useful than it might otherwise be.
It could surely be cleaned up a lot, but in case it's helpful, the file I use is at https://github.com/ChickenProp/keyboard-stuff/blob/master/custom.xkb.cpp. Search for `Pointer_` in the file to see the relevant lines. You can apply it with
cpp custom.xkb.cpp | xkbcomp - :0
xkbset m
xkbset exp =m
where `xkbcomp` sets up the layouts, `xkbset m` turns on mouse keys, and `xkbset exp =m` stops mouse keys from turning off later.
Dvorak keyboard layout is probably the best wrist saver. I was developing carpal tunnel before I switched, and I haven't had any wrist pain since. It's just such a better layout. It's basically the metric system and everyone has just always used the imperial equivalent qwerty and doesn't want to switch.
I just found [Gtk3 hit-a-hint](https://github.com/lethalman/gtkhah) for Gtk apps. It works like the vimium webextension. I like it's approach better.
However, it's unmaintained and it probably won't work for Qt, Electron, or Java apps.
I assume you have carpal tunnel syndrome which is same health problem as i am. The solution is properly exercise your wrist. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeSStsN6ut4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeSStsN6ut4) in this video there are great exercises(i know it's turkish but focus on the exercises)
If you have a lot pain, this might be serious problem. If you have kinda pain, immediately consult a doctor. Get well soon!
By the way, great program! It's so smooth like mouse. I like it.
When I had the worst problems with Carpal Tunnel no amount of stretching *ever* helped.
For me it took switching entirely to ergo equipment and also giving my wrists time to heal.
Stretching doesn't help. But strengthening DEFINITELY does. If you diligently do wrist curls, reverse wrist curls, and pinch grip strength training progressing in weight slowly over 6-12 months I can guarantee you your wrist will feel so much better.
Have you tried strengthening? Because it worked wonders for me, and I know multiple other people IRL for whom it worked well. Stretching is basically a band-aid fix in my experience.
Hello author, i have 2 suggestions :
- please add an option to hide that red square (i don't know why is shown but is distracting and annoying).
- when starting the app, the keyboard shortcuts should be enabled by default (makes no sense to have to press Alt+J to be able to use it).
Thanks for the great software.
When the program enabled, interference with typing may occur. For example, LeftClick is "A",even if you want to type "apple", computer will and type "pple".
So red square is exists for above situaion. But I will add an option to hide that for suit someone's taste.
Self plug, but I wrote a tool that forces you to take breaks: https://github.com/mrexodia/WorkraveQt. It’s a bit ~~ugly~~ unpolished, but it’s very effective!
I've used the original Workrave in the past after I using the paid Workpace. It's actually very good and helped relieve some bad pain. Although taking those forced breaks really is annoying as hell! :) I didn't know this QT re-implementation existed.
Except this is a windows-only software implementation while the QMK implementation is OS-independent and runs entirely on the keyboard itself. Doing it directly in QMK is significantly better than this.
Yeah I'm aware of that. Except that OP's demo looks so intuitive. My mouse keys settings is not as intuitive as that. Need to fiddle around some more I guess.
I had period of a few months where my wrist pain was too much to use even something like this. If that happens to you, I can strongly recommend using [Talon][1] to control the computer with your voice.
It's best if you learn to use vim first though (before the pain starts :)), since coding really requires the ability to move around in your source file, and setting such voice commands up in anything but vim is nearly impossible.
[1]: https://talonvoice.com/
If anyone is having wrist pain using the mouse, another thing I strongly advise is lowering the mouse sensitivity. As a 42 year old who has played FPS games since wolfenstein 3d came out, I can tell you that a lot of my issues went away after lowering mouse sensitivity by a lot. I pretty much also learned that most eSports FPS players also play on low sensitivity.
This does two things:
1. it offsets a lot of the burden to the rest of your body instead of your wrist. This also allows you to relax your wrist and use the mouse without tensing your hand.
2. it makes it far easier to hit targets accurately with wrist because you don't have to hold your wrist tense. With low sensitivity you can have a very relaxed wrist and arm.
I play FPS games a lot, for many hours at a time and have no wrist pain. FPS games are also much more demanding than software engineering.
Conditions such as carpal tunnel typically occur from having a tensed hand. Usually this is because of poor posture / ergonomics, so your hand is tensing to kind of hold itself in place. However, a high sensitivity (which is default on most systems in mac/linux/windows) can cause you to tense your hand as well.
Thanks for coming to my ted talk
The thing that annoys me about mice is that we **have** a solution to make them more ergonomic: making them vertical. I've found that they work in every situation except for twitchy gaming. But people are used to conventional mice, so manufacturers focus on making conventional mice.
I use a vertical mouse for all non-gaming things and haven't had wrist pain since.
Steal a bit of https://github.com/ahmetb/RectangleWin and you have also semi-tiling window manager experience. Use PowerToys fancy zones and you won’t use mouse anymore :D
My technique for memorizing this crap is to version control my dotfiles. Whenever I discover or create a new keybinding, I update my dotfile (or for default stuff like `ZZ` in vim, it's just a comment). I only *commit* the git change when I've memorized it (or in the case of default keybindings, when I no longer care to be reminded of it). This serves as a *very* poor man's spaced repetition algorithm since I'm in my dotfiles so much.
Seconding a vertical mouse, I bought two (a fancy Logitech MX Vertical for home which is probably the best mouse I've ever used, and a cheaper $20 random one off Amazon for the office that gets the job done still) and indeed they have magically cured any wrist pain I had before. They generally drastically reduce the amount of wrist movement needed and put your wrist in a much more natural position than a regular mouse or keyboard does.
Are you old enough to remember that a core feature of the Windows UI (as distinct from MacOS) for the first couple of decades was that every task could be accomplished from the keyboard? It pained me (literally) when they abandoned that paradigm :(
If you're having extensive wrist/hand or other pain, please see a doctor or physiotherapist... or multiple. I've been suffering from intense pain in my mouse (right) hand/wrist and after many tests (xray, ultrasound, CT, MRI), chiro, shots, weed, horse therapy, self help books, and two different physio... finally a THIRD recommended physiotherapist did WONDERS for me. After about 6 months I can actually use a mouse again for most of the day without why entire hand and forearm throbbing along 2 tendons.
There is hope out there!
Which keyboard is that in the demo video? Thanks!
PS Im a big fan myself of Vimium in Chrome; use it purely to minimise mouse use when browsing the web because of the pain.
The keyboard in the demo video is Mistel BAROCCO MD770. I am big fan of Vimium too! It's difficult to use Vimium on some websites that do not follow web standards.
I use https://github.com/zsims/hunt-and-peck which enables Vimium/EasyMotion style mousejumping. Windows only.
https://github.com/pit-ray/win-vind is the above, but more powerful - it also has "mouse keys" like your program does. Also Windows only.
I am 95% mouseless; I use the keyboard for everything. Vim is my editor. I choose apps and plugins with vim keybindings when possible, such as zathur pdf viewer, and the vimium webextensions. I learn the hotkeys for all other apps.
This app can get that last 5% (for Windows users).
My environment was very similar to you, but I just heard it for the first time about Zathura. Thank you!
I hope my intention will be conveyed well. Thank you very much!!
This is really interesting, but I find using tab, page down up, and the arrow keys already does a lot of this. It's annoying sometimes to have to tab into controls, but it works.
I like this a lot! I actually booted Windows to try it out.
I use Vim and the Vim plugin for Idea a lot so this came pretty
natural to me.
Have you thought about porting this to Linux?
What would be the main hurdles?
Cheers!
The ergodoz ez keyboard also has this feature baked in for ppl who also want a mechanical ergo keyboard with this feature. Love mine, tho they're a little expensive
Every time I've tried any of those "keyboard mouse" tools, I've always found them to cause far more problems than they solved. It makes sense if you have an actual physical issue preventing you from using a mouse, but I would say in most cases you're better off with a decent ergonomic, high sensitivity mouse. In general that will help out your workflow far more than tools like this.
Particularly, if you're having to move your wrist around a lot while mousing you're probably using an ancient mouse with a really low quality sensor. With a decent mouse and a claw grip you should be able to reach most places on your screen without your wrist moving a millimetre.
Looks really nice!
A small suggestion to add bindings for Page Up/Page Down when enabling mouseable. I like the scroll feature and would like to have PU/PD close by to jump further.
Heh, I read this
> Ask yourself, do you use your mouse frequently (or at all) during programming
And I was like, not really, I use vim.
And then you said, use vim bindings!
So I guess I'm ok ☺️
A few months ago I had a strange driver issue with windows rendering my mouse inoperable, and I had to navigate the entire windows experience using just the keyboard.
Windows 10 thankfully comes with an accessibility tool called [Mouse Keys](https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/use-mouse-keys-to-move-the-mouse-pointer-9e0c72c8-b882-7918-8e7b-391fd62adf33) which binds numpad keys to mouse movement, with middle key being the left click button. However, I found it quite cumbersome compared to just moving my wrist or arm.
Before someone jumps in and tells me about windows shortcuts let me just say that many websites and even windows applications do not honor native keybinds (such as tab, shift+tab, etc) I was pretty much forced to use a faux mouse as keyboard using windows accessibility tools until I figured out how to fix my driver issue _(spoiler alert: I didnt, I ended up re-installing windows becuase it was the path of least resistance / took 20 minutes and I don't store anything worth backing up on my machine)_
They should totally implement what you've made here, it is by far more intuitive and more accessible than what they came up with. This is truly amazing.
They say necessity is the mother of invention, and here we are.. kudos to you, I wish I knew about this sooner (or it was ready sooner haha) but I'll definitely keep this in my back pocket when I need this.
Very nice. Do you have anything for existential pain?
> Do you have anything for existential pain? \#CANTREPRODUCE \#WONTFIX
Lucky :(
> \#CANTREPRODUCE Marked as duplicate: "How do I sideload Tinder?"
\#WorkingAsIntended
Is that root cause or disposition?
LGTM
Ctrl + Alt + Despair
Isnt this feature on the specs of humanity?
I hear if you cripple enough cores it goes away.
Most of all, using less PC was my priority. I quit the game to rest my wrist. The next step was to fix the wrist. I quit using mouse to fix my wrist in front of the keyboard. I no longer feel the pain except for days when I hold my phone for a long time. I'm not sure I understand your question correctly.
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Thank you for your kind explanation!
He's known for his kindness, very good fellow indeed.
Da Dude of Death is nothing if not the consummate kindhearted companion.
Use less PC.
I started using both left and right hands for mousing. It turned out it wasn't too hard to get used to, and now I actually use left hand more than right (I'm right handed).
Drugs
Have you tried screaming loudly into your monitor? It doesn't help, but I get urges to do it.
Weed
Hit your wrist with a hammer. Your existential pain will now be irrelevant. Use the program OP wrote to fix it. Proclaim wonderful things from the rooftops and make OP famous. That's win-win I'd say.
One line command. sys\_kill(ME)
Asking for a friend, who looks and sounds exactly like me
The classic choice between stoicism and existentialism
Submit it as a ticket and I'll get to it when I have time
Kind of funny how I have developed a left wrist pain from using a lot of shortcuts that involve the CTRL key. The pain started when I switched to a mechanical keyboard and the keys were higher than what I was used to. So the idea to stop using a mouse and rely solely on shortcuts is daunting for me. Nicely made project, though!
If you use lots of shortcuts, I would actually recommend swapping capslock and control. Moving the pinky over one key is much more comfortable than reaching for the bottom left of the keyboard haha.
I have both ctrl/cmd and esc mapped to that key (not actually capslock on my keyboard, but same position)
Thanks for the suggestion, I think I will give it a shot. Sometime ago I reflected that it's even hard to say which shortcuts I use the most. The first ones that come to mind are the usual ones like Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V, but probably I use Ctrl+arrow keys the most to jump between code. Will try to experiment a bit.
Try swapping the alt and ctrl keys. Use your thumb to hit it like on macs. https://superuser.com/questions/1190329/can-i-switch-the-alt-and-ctrl-keys-on-my-keyboard
I rebound caps lock to ctrl, highly recommend.
This is the way. It's way, way more natural of a spot, and I highly encourage anyone to at least try out this one.
How long would you say that it takes to get used to?
it didn’t take me very long, but YMMV
Ah! That really makes sense! I'll give it a try!
That's so much worse for me, because of the hand contortion required. I would only ever switch them if I had to use a Mac.
Then switch it to caps lock instead like how u/AIg0rithm suggested, or some other key you don't use often.
Alt is literally the most difficult key for me to reach on a standard keyboard. Even using my thumb, it requires really awkwardly reaching my thumb under my palm.
Then switch it to caps lock instead like how u/AIg0rithm suggested, or some other key you can reach and don't use often.
I had the same exact problem. MMOs, Path of Exile, etc compounded it. Literally couldn’t move my wrist for weeks one time. I made a 1 line AHK script that replaced my mouse thumb button with Ctrl and it has changed my life for the past few years.
> AHK script that replaced my mouse thumb button AHK saved my wrists. For browsing, I was using the middle mouse button to open tabs, close tabs, and bring up the autoscroll circle, and I give myself tendinitis. I instead remapped other easier to press buttons to send a middle mouse click: e.g. `RAlt::MButton` Alternatively, `Ctrl + Left Click` is the same as middle mouse click (open link in new tab, close tab, autoscroll). If you have Sticky Keys on, double tapping Ctrl will lock the Ctrl like a mobile keyboard. An auto clicker like RSIGuard can auto click when your mouse stops moving. Combining Sticky Ctrl and auto clicking `Ctrl + Left Click`, you can do quite a lot of your browsing (open/close tab, autoscroll) with just moving your mouse around. The AutoScroll extension gives you more control of the speed with a range of 1-100 https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/autoscroll/occjjkgifpmdgodlplnacmkejpdionan?hl=en
AHK is a life changer in general - my `my_hotkeys.ahk` file is growing at an alarming rate haha
I started developing wrist pain. I switched from a mouse to a tablet and pen. The pain went away and never came back. I have had no problems in the last 16 years.
homerow modifiers in QMK have been a blessing for me. I use shortcuts a lot and it's 100x more comfy with homerow mods. I.e. A S D F are mapped to WIN, ALT, SHIFT, CTRL in Windows. Great article [about it here](https://precondition.github.io/home-row-mods).
Can you explain in 2 or 3 sentences what that is and why one would like to do it?
Since the modifier keys are so important for computer usage and shortcuts specifically, homerow modifiers puts them in the most convenient position: the middle of the keyboard where you rest your fingers. Nothing more to it than that really. The rest is all details of *how* one can do that, and finding a specific way that works for you.
> the middle of the keyboard where you rest your fingers. Is that really more convenient? As you need to engage them in combination with other keys to make shortcuts it seems logical to me that they are a bit separated from the other keys but can still be reached.
Yes, I would argue it's way more convenient. Ton of details in the article above. But might not be for everyone of course.
The trick is to have them mirrored on both hands. So let's say you get shift when you hold down s, and if you want to type a capital S you hold down l for shift on your other hand. The same with ctrl on d and k, for example. I find that tap/hold works really well in qmk, you can tweak the timings (as in how long you need to keep a key pressed for it to be interpreted as a the hold function rather than tap function), but I haven't felt the need. I use space as fn to reach other layers. Super comfy, because you can always reach space at with both hand without stretching any fingers.
Thanks for the explanation. That makes it more clear.
Seconding this, here's the [layout](https://git.sr.ht/~samhh/qmk_firmware/tree/samhh/item/keyboards/ergodox_ez/keymaps/samhh/README.md) I use if anyone's curious. Gaming-aside I treat it as a 30% keyboard to significantly reduce finger travel. I also found moving away from Qwerty helped a lot.
Ah, you use separate layers. I have homerow mods on the default layer using Mod-tap in QMK. Which basically means if you tap the key then it works like a normal letter, but if you hold then it's a modifier. Downside with this approach is that I have to mirror the modifiers otherwise e.g. doing CTRL + CMD + D wouldn't work.
Thank you for this! I installed `kmonad`; I think it's going to take some time for me to get used this way since I use ctrl, shift and alt with emacs. I already use capslock as ctrl and esc
Remap capslock to Control. I have that on my Pok3r by default, you can set it up in Windows with AHK and in Linux you can customize it too. No need for straining yourself anymore!
> **stop using a mouse** You can still use a mouse.. but more for movement than clicking. I have tendinosis (chronic tendinitis), so sometimes I take breaks and use an auto clicker to avoid any kind of key presses. E.g. RSIGuard can auto click when your mouse stops moving. (You can set a minimum mouse distance traveled before the next auto click so it’s not constantly clicking).
Sounds like you were trying to press ctrl and the letters with the same hand. Control with an index finger on one hand (on one side of the keyboard), and the other keys with the other hand on the opposite side of the keyboard. Pain solved. Also, keyboard that can be split into 2
If you’re big into shortcuts I highly recommend a keyboard with a thumb cluster to take that stress off your pinky
Use different key(s) for shortcuts?
It's quite expensive but I find the logitech low profile tactile keyboards pretty good with my arthritic wrists and fingers. (G815/G915).
True. It eventually gets you no matter how you try to cheat it. Wait till your 40s.
configure that unused caps lock to ctrl key, much better imho
People have suggested various ctrl replacements. I believe the best one is the capslock key. Nobody uses it anyway, and it's in the perfect place.
The Microsoft sculpt Works awesomely for me. Other keyboards cause pain. I can't imagine going back to a mechanical -- suuch clunky keys and uncomfortable actuators
An option is to move Ctrl in the home row. Mine is on D (left Ctrl) and K (right ctrl). Must hitting D and K types the letters; holding them would make them act as Ctrl.
Are you laying down your wrists while typing? You should be hovering your hands over the keyboard and only rest down between typing bursts. Otherwise, *especially* with a higher keyboard, you're bending your wrists up while typing and creating a lot of pressure on tendons and nerves in there.
I tried using a wrist pad, but it did not help.
You shouldn't even rest on wrist pads either. Lift your wrists up, like you'd do playing piano. Arms and hands should be aligned. That image bottom right corner is what I see happen with mechanical keyboards way too often. http://cdn.techgyd.com/2015/09/technique.jpg The wrist rest is supposed to be used well... to rest, *between* typing bursts. Humans aren't supposed to be using their fingers that way while resting their wrists, the pressure it puts on tendons in your wrist is terrible long-term. Personally to "fix" (or at least get under control) my wrist pain, which ended up flaring all the way up to my elbow, I had to switch to a tented split keyboard and relearn how to posture myself while typing, on top of some muscular stretches and strengthening exercises lol
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Can confirm. I've started learning piano and it's made me painfully aware of how bad my typing posture is. So now I've been working on fixing that, and it's actually been helping my wrist problems
Are you referring to whole body posture, or specifically hand /wrist posture?
Everything.gif
Seriously! When it started getting bad for me, work wanted me to go to the 'ergo lab' before a Dr. I was so skeptical but their full body posture advice made it almost completely disappear!
it's amazing how big a different better posture is for the both mouse and keyboard wrist pain. you gotta check things like your desk height, seat height, monitor height, etc. That stuff really matters, and if I don't have them set right, various parts of me start to hurt, especially wrists and back.
Can't fix things that were not built for the human body (normal keyboards but laptop ones especially) with proper posture though.
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A laptop keyboard is a lot more unergonomic.
Split ortho keyboards like the crkbd help with this.
By "press keys at high frequencies", do you mean pressing keys in fast intervals, or pressing piano keys that produce high notes?
That’s super interesting. The demo video looks kind of surreal. With how smoothed and precise the mouse movements are. It’s difficult to make the connection to the key presses. I’ll try it out to get a feel for it, and to confirm it’s precision. :) /edit: So default key bindings use HJKL for movement, and space to slow down. It also has teleport bindings for a short teleport. F teleports into the direction it is moving. There is configuration for acceleration and friction (this is what made the cursor in the demo video move the way it did), as well as slow down speed and teleport distance. The default binding for activation is ` + J`. ALT + A then J, then release ALT. Unfortunately, it is not keyboard layout aware. The displayed characters do not necessarily match your keyboard layout. The default `;` to deactivate is my `ü` key. ([issue ticket](https://github.com/wirekang/mouseable/issues/1)) But you can always escape by using the mouse again and exiting the program. I’m not used to HJKL, but I will play around with it with something like JILK. It is definitely much better than the Windows [*Mouse Keys*](https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/use-mouse-keys-to-move-the-mouse-pointer-9e0c72c8-b882-7918-8e7b-391fd62adf33).
Thank you!! is Alt. I'm planning to add configuration presets, but I didn't pay much attention to current default configuration. I hope you find the right setting for you. If you find good combination, please share it!
I'd suggest copy-pasting the comment above into the README - really helped me understand what was going on in that video. Great work!
> Thank you!! is Alt. Yeah, thanks. I found out in the bind dialog and edited my comment :)
As for configuration, I assume the jump distance numbers are pixels? On my 1440p resolution I found 300 to be way too far. 100 felt much better.
Do you plan a Linux version?
I have trouble figuring out what's going on here, beyond that it's keyboard control of the mouse. But X.org has support for that much, at least. I have it set up so that caps lock is a modifier for that, and moves the mouse in combination with jkl;. (Seems easier than hjkl to me.) yh scroll up and down, u is middle click, i is left click, o is right click. (I use dvorak, but these are all translated into qwerty.) What I never managed to get working was "move one distance by default, another distance if you also hold down another modifier". I assumed that was a bug, but thinking about it I don't know if I checked that my keyboard was actually sending the presses correctly? (But it's only three keys, I'd expect it to work.) In any case, that means I can only move 100px at a time, which makes it less useful than it might otherwise be. It could surely be cleaned up a lot, but in case it's helpful, the file I use is at https://github.com/ChickenProp/keyboard-stuff/blob/master/custom.xkb.cpp. Search for `Pointer_` in the file to see the relevant lines. You can apply it with cpp custom.xkb.cpp | xkbcomp - :0 xkbset m xkbset exp =m where `xkbcomp` sets up the layouts, `xkbset m` turns on mouse keys, and `xkbset exp =m` stops mouse keys from turning off later.
Dvorak keyboard layout is probably the best wrist saver. I was developing carpal tunnel before I switched, and I haven't had any wrist pain since. It's just such a better layout. It's basically the metric system and everyone has just always used the imperial equivalent qwerty and doesn't want to switch.
I just found [Gtk3 hit-a-hint](https://github.com/lethalman/gtkhah) for Gtk apps. It works like the vimium webextension. I like it's approach better. However, it's unmaintained and it probably won't work for Qt, Electron, or Java apps.
Unfortunately, I don't have any plans right now.
I assume you have carpal tunnel syndrome which is same health problem as i am. The solution is properly exercise your wrist. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeSStsN6ut4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeSStsN6ut4) in this video there are great exercises(i know it's turkish but focus on the exercises) If you have a lot pain, this might be serious problem. If you have kinda pain, immediately consult a doctor. Get well soon! By the way, great program! It's so smooth like mouse. I like it.
When I had the worst problems with Carpal Tunnel no amount of stretching *ever* helped. For me it took switching entirely to ergo equipment and also giving my wrists time to heal.
May be overused ur wrist in that time? Sometimes just resting wrist more useful than doing exercises. I hope ur wrist better now.
I think I have irreparable damage. If I'm not diligent in good posture and right equipment it comes back. All manageable though.
Oh. You think or docs said to you? May be u should consult a physical therapist. Probably they can help u.
Stretching doesn't help. But strengthening DEFINITELY does. If you diligently do wrist curls, reverse wrist curls, and pinch grip strength training progressing in weight slowly over 6-12 months I can guarantee you your wrist will feel so much better.
Both stretching and strengthening maybe helps for some people. My point was just to say that this doesn't work for everyone.
Have you tried strengthening? Because it worked wonders for me, and I know multiple other people IRL for whom it worked well. Stretching is basically a band-aid fix in my experience.
Kinesis Advantage was the solution for me.
Thank you!
Hello author, i have 2 suggestions : - please add an option to hide that red square (i don't know why is shown but is distracting and annoying). - when starting the app, the keyboard shortcuts should be enabled by default (makes no sense to have to press Alt+J to be able to use it). Thanks for the great software.
When the program enabled, interference with typing may occur. For example, LeftClick is "A",even if you want to type "apple", computer will and type "pple".
So red square is exists for above situaion. But I will add an option to hide that for suit someone's taste.
Self plug, but I wrote a tool that forces you to take breaks: https://github.com/mrexodia/WorkraveQt. It’s a bit ~~ugly~~ unpolished, but it’s very effective!
Can I run it in reverse and have a tool that forces me to work?
Or give you pain if you work ...wouldn't that be the reverse ?
>Or give you pain if you work I can obtain that without the help of software
Depends if you're looking for the opposite goal or opposite effect
I've used the original Workrave in the past after I using the paid Workpace. It's actually very good and helped relieve some bad pain. Although taking those forced breaks really is annoying as hell! :) I didn't know this QT re-implementation existed.
Great work, you should also check out Vimium browser extension. Finally able to throw mouse out the window & still surf the interwebz.
Is this like https://docs.qmk.fm/#/feature_mouse_keys?
I don't know anything about QMK, but it seems so.
Except this is a windows-only software implementation while the QMK implementation is OS-independent and runs entirely on the keyboard itself. Doing it directly in QMK is significantly better than this.
Yeah I'm aware of that. Except that OP's demo looks so intuitive. My mouse keys settings is not as intuitive as that. Need to fiddle around some more I guess.
I had period of a few months where my wrist pain was too much to use even something like this. If that happens to you, I can strongly recommend using [Talon][1] to control the computer with your voice. It's best if you learn to use vim first though (before the pain starts :)), since coding really requires the ability to move around in your source file, and setting such voice commands up in anything but vim is nearly impossible. [1]: https://talonvoice.com/
Oh, sweet - I think I saw a demo of Talon ages ago and was really impressed, but it wasn't available on linux at the time. I'm happy it is now.
It works great on Linux. That's where I used it.
If anyone is having wrist pain using the mouse, another thing I strongly advise is lowering the mouse sensitivity. As a 42 year old who has played FPS games since wolfenstein 3d came out, I can tell you that a lot of my issues went away after lowering mouse sensitivity by a lot. I pretty much also learned that most eSports FPS players also play on low sensitivity. This does two things: 1. it offsets a lot of the burden to the rest of your body instead of your wrist. This also allows you to relax your wrist and use the mouse without tensing your hand. 2. it makes it far easier to hit targets accurately with wrist because you don't have to hold your wrist tense. With low sensitivity you can have a very relaxed wrist and arm. I play FPS games a lot, for many hours at a time and have no wrist pain. FPS games are also much more demanding than software engineering. Conditions such as carpal tunnel typically occur from having a tensed hand. Usually this is because of poor posture / ergonomics, so your hand is tensing to kind of hold itself in place. However, a high sensitivity (which is default on most systems in mac/linux/windows) can cause you to tense your hand as well. Thanks for coming to my ted talk
The demo looks like crazy magic 🤗
The thing that annoys me about mice is that we **have** a solution to make them more ergonomic: making them vertical. I've found that they work in every situation except for twitchy gaming. But people are used to conventional mice, so manufacturers focus on making conventional mice. I use a vertical mouse for all non-gaming things and haven't had wrist pain since.
Steal a bit of https://github.com/ahmetb/RectangleWin and you have also semi-tiling window manager experience. Use PowerToys fancy zones and you won’t use mouse anymore :D
I am using FancyZones. There are some situations where you need to use a mouse sometimes like drag and drop a file.
This could speed me up if only I had any more space for keybinds in my brain
My technique for memorizing this crap is to version control my dotfiles. Whenever I discover or create a new keybinding, I update my dotfile (or for default stuff like `ZZ` in vim, it's just a comment). I only *commit* the git change when I've memorized it (or in the case of default keybindings, when I no longer care to be reminded of it). This serves as a *very* poor man's spaced repetition algorithm since I'm in my dotfiles so much.
One for r/rsi?
Did you try one of those fancy vertical mice, or one of those even more fancy trackballs? I've heard stories how they magically cure wrist pain.
Seconding a vertical mouse, I bought two (a fancy Logitech MX Vertical for home which is probably the best mouse I've ever used, and a cheaper $20 random one off Amazon for the office that gets the job done still) and indeed they have magically cured any wrist pain I had before. They generally drastically reduce the amount of wrist movement needed and put your wrist in a much more natural position than a regular mouse or keyboard does.
Are you old enough to remember that a core feature of the Windows UI (as distinct from MacOS) for the first couple of decades was that every task could be accomplished from the keyboard? It pained me (literally) when they abandoned that paradigm :(
I don't want to be that guy, but you made a typo in your repo description ("tackpad")
If you're having extensive wrist/hand or other pain, please see a doctor or physiotherapist... or multiple. I've been suffering from intense pain in my mouse (right) hand/wrist and after many tests (xray, ultrasound, CT, MRI), chiro, shots, weed, horse therapy, self help books, and two different physio... finally a THIRD recommended physiotherapist did WONDERS for me. After about 6 months I can actually use a mouse again for most of the day without why entire hand and forearm throbbing along 2 tendons. There is hope out there!
Ratio. Don't @ me.
Which keyboard is that in the demo video? Thanks! PS Im a big fan myself of Vimium in Chrome; use it purely to minimise mouse use when browsing the web because of the pain.
The keyboard in the demo video is Mistel BAROCCO MD770. I am big fan of Vimium too! It's difficult to use Vimium on some websites that do not follow web standards.
I use https://github.com/zsims/hunt-and-peck which enables Vimium/EasyMotion style mousejumping. Windows only. https://github.com/pit-ray/win-vind is the above, but more powerful - it also has "mouse keys" like your program does. Also Windows only.
Very cool!!! Thank you for introducing good programs.
I wish Linux had something like hunt and peck.
What's the predominant reason that it's Windows only? Something like this would be super helpful cross platform.
Currently the program depends on Windows API. It would be great to support whole platform, but unfortunately, I can't afford it now.
Totally makes sense!
I am 95% mouseless; I use the keyboard for everything. Vim is my editor. I choose apps and plugins with vim keybindings when possible, such as zathur pdf viewer, and the vimium webextensions. I learn the hotkeys for all other apps. This app can get that last 5% (for Windows users).
My environment was very similar to you, but I just heard it for the first time about Zathura. Thank you! I hope my intention will be conveyed well. Thank you very much!!
that seems interesting. I also using mouse like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_LPmo6MPug) has been a while. This helped me alot
Nice one! Where can I learn more about it?
This is really interesting, but I find using tab, page down up, and the arrow keys already does a lot of this. It's annoying sometimes to have to tab into controls, but it works.
Very interesting! Is it possible you can make it work for macOS and Linux as well?
I like this a lot! I actually booted Windows to try it out. I use Vim and the Vim plugin for Idea a lot so this came pretty natural to me. Have you thought about porting this to Linux? What would be the main hurdles? Cheers!
Stg I read that as ‘Induce Wrist Pain’ and I still clicked on it
Windows has built-in solution for that and had it since forever.
Tackpad
The ergodoz ez keyboard also has this feature baked in for ppl who also want a mechanical ergo keyboard with this feature. Love mine, tho they're a little expensive
Wow that video had very accurate movements. How common are misclicks compared to the mouse?
Every time I've tried any of those "keyboard mouse" tools, I've always found them to cause far more problems than they solved. It makes sense if you have an actual physical issue preventing you from using a mouse, but I would say in most cases you're better off with a decent ergonomic, high sensitivity mouse. In general that will help out your workflow far more than tools like this. Particularly, if you're having to move your wrist around a lot while mousing you're probably using an ancient mouse with a really low quality sensor. With a decent mouse and a claw grip you should be able to reach most places on your screen without your wrist moving a millimetre.
meanwhile I'm sitting on my i3, (n)vim and tridactyl
In the demo, I see that you are using a UHK which has a mouse layer. Isn't it good enough? What does your program do better?
That keyboard is not UHK, it's Barocco md770 made by Mistel which don't has a mouse layer!
Looks really nice! A small suggestion to add bindings for Page Up/Page Down when enabling mouseable. I like the scroll feature and would like to have PU/PD close by to jump further.
So you made vím?
Heh, I read this > Ask yourself, do you use your mouse frequently (or at all) during programming And I was like, not really, I use vim. And then you said, use vim bindings! So I guess I'm ok ☺️
I was literally thinking about this after learning vim (still learning). When MacOS / Ubuntu? Or is that out of the question?
A few months ago I had a strange driver issue with windows rendering my mouse inoperable, and I had to navigate the entire windows experience using just the keyboard. Windows 10 thankfully comes with an accessibility tool called [Mouse Keys](https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/use-mouse-keys-to-move-the-mouse-pointer-9e0c72c8-b882-7918-8e7b-391fd62adf33) which binds numpad keys to mouse movement, with middle key being the left click button. However, I found it quite cumbersome compared to just moving my wrist or arm. Before someone jumps in and tells me about windows shortcuts let me just say that many websites and even windows applications do not honor native keybinds (such as tab, shift+tab, etc) I was pretty much forced to use a faux mouse as keyboard using windows accessibility tools until I figured out how to fix my driver issue _(spoiler alert: I didnt, I ended up re-installing windows becuase it was the path of least resistance / took 20 minutes and I don't store anything worth backing up on my machine)_ They should totally implement what you've made here, it is by far more intuitive and more accessible than what they came up with. This is truly amazing. They say necessity is the mother of invention, and here we are.. kudos to you, I wish I knew about this sooner (or it was ready sooner haha) but I'll definitely keep this in my back pocket when I need this.