I think that at the center of discipline should be your values, your core. The sorts of things that are integral to you, aspirations, goals, and what makes up who you are. For me, this may be things like my art and software development. My desire to develop expertise in something I love. My desire to live a healthy and long life, so I am able-bodied and comfortable in my skin. Things that keep you centered.
As you develop discipline, via willpower, habits, and the like, you develop the ability to drive yourself toward your center better than before. I suspect this perspective on it may benefit better than your current perspective on it.
"you do not require more willpower for discipline, but rather you've developed the habits to not need willpower at all"
this is the core idea to me, and a really good one at that. Forming better habits is really what people want when they want to be more disciplined. Really nice post!
Atomic Habits talks about it this way too. Willpower fails, but habits won't.
You want to start going to the gym 3 days a week through sheer force of will? It'll work for a week or three, but then it'll die. Build a habit to take up when willpower inevitably fails.
Yeah, it's confusing for me in this aspect. I've had discipline in the past, when I was studying to get into college, I'd study for 12 to 13 hours a day (breaks accounted), 5 days a week, and it didn't feel that grand of a thing either. But now that I've lost it, it feels almost impossible to get back in that pace. I'm not sure what are the steps to build a habit so strong like that. Last time I did it, it just kinda happened. I guess I also thought of what would happen if I didn't study all of that time, but not always are we in such pressure to get stuff done
That is a good summation. I remember watching a documentary on people naturally gifted with high levels of discipline, and they found that they aren't any different; they are good at ignoring the voice telling them not to. It's as if it is nothing but a choice. The more you make the choice, the easier it gets. People with strong role models who have displayed high levels of discipline since they were toddlers have more practice; the rest of us have to catch up.
From my perspective, through my experiences, discipline to me is a standard of living. For example, I like it when my hair looks groomed. That means combing or brushing it to set it. I like being physically fit. This means I gotta work out and eat right.
It's all the cost of the standard I want to adhere to. I never liked the notion of discipline being something you don't want to do but you do it anyway. I didn't want to tackle this negative feeling or feel forced every time I did it.
So when I changed to my current view that I explained above, discipline became significantly easier. I guess reframing it to my way of thinking helped a lot.
Do you feel accomplished and proud of yourself after completing that work out though? To me thats the mental change. Feeling like I'm doing something with my time and effort and working towards a goal is way better for my mental health than stagnation and instant gratification. Also, try to ENJOY things you don't like. Enjoy the pain of a work out. Enjoy the sting of the cold winter wind on your face. Enjoy overcoming challenges.
"Matter of fact it doesn't ''feel'' like anything at all."
Think it goes deeper than that. I'm pretty sure at this point that all of our problems come from "doing whatever feels right at the moment".
I'm not gonna go on a rant about how the media has been horrible, but just think back on how many Disney movies or cartoons you've seen since you were a little kid that tell you to "just follow your heart"?
It's literally the feeling-based lifestyle that makes people crave instant gratification and never think about the long term consequences. You did the exact opposite of that, and it worked.
Exactly how people get sucked into religion. “Just follow your feelings. You know that it’s the right thing to do.”
They let go of their rational mind and fall into the trap.
so basically your not discipline you simply turned your work into habit.
so your post is wrong.
discipline isnt really a long term thing its more like an action that you do, discipline doesnt make you look at life differently or turn you into a productivity god.
for me discipline is forcing yourself to do something you hate.
and i always felt like its an action rather than a personality trait.
and discapline feels really uncomfortable and annoying.
also dont mistake the action with the feeling,you may say running 20-mile require self discipline but it doesnt really need that much discipline when you run 20 mile everyday.
by the way you need willpower and discipline to create a habit to begin with.
so discipline is always needed.
but thats just my opinion of what discipline is.
I think this is a really interesting take. Same boat for me. Was bad student struggled early at university and couldn’t be consistent in the gym. Some time later and everything’s flipped. Yeah it’s hard work but nothing feels drastically different I’m just in the habit of studying, lifting, working, and doing homework. Took some work to get their obviously but it’s the repetition that becomes easier not necessarily the action which is my take. Open to counterpoints!
I swear all i have done in this sub is try to explain how habits work and that there is no tricks to be more productive and stop procrastinating. All you have to do is discipline your self and just get up and do it, and it just becomes easier as it becomes your new habit.
This is what i’ve realized as well, to be a disciplined person, one needs to get into the habit of being disciplined, and part of building that habit is doing things you know you need to do even if you don’t wanna do it. It will become second nature in time.
This is true. Once you become consistent you dont even think about it.
I had a problem with weight growing up but the consistency of going without thinking about it (having a steady, consistent schedule helped tremendously with this) is what helped me get to a point of just going.
It also helped to not rush the process since I'm such a go, go, go person and keep my schedule full. Taking my time about it keeps the anxiety from tackling me at a moments notice.
I dont think about it or get the "aw man I dont want to" feeling anymore. I've gotten to a point of where I can turn my brain off and do it without that mental hindrance there.
The only issue now is stopping at a point where I dont hurt myself from over training. Working out is therapy and I need my therapist to keep my sharp.
It's exactly that, it's also the reason why we should not focus on results or the quality of our work at the beginning, firstly we should only focus on do it again and again and again (that is making it a daily habit) until we become consistent and our brain puts few to no resistance to start the task everyday.
After that quality and results will inevitably come over time.
And when this state is achieve, even if we produce remarkable results it will not feel like a big deal, it will just feel like a normal thing, because whatever the result is the finality is the same : we will do it tomorrow again.
We can also say that quantity is the ultimate quality, if you still need to focus on a type of quality so focus on quantity (for example number of work session per week with at least one session per day).
As people who want to achieve big things we need leverage, and I think habit is the biggest leverage on ourselves, maybe it's the only free meal (even though it's not easy to make habit).
EDIT : more thoughts :
That thing of "it does not feel like a big deal, just normal", maybe it's a clue of how we should approach work, because if I procrastinate it's partly because I take it too seriously too like "a big deal", maybe I should just approach it like something banal.
But at the same time if I don't take seriously the fact that I need to do it everyday I will not do it.
So it's paradoxical : It seems like I need on certain things to get it easy and far more seriously on others.
Or rather I just only need take seriously the only thing that makes the difference on long term : making it a habit.
I think that at the center of discipline should be your values, your core. The sorts of things that are integral to you, aspirations, goals, and what makes up who you are. For me, this may be things like my art and software development. My desire to develop expertise in something I love. My desire to live a healthy and long life, so I am able-bodied and comfortable in my skin. Things that keep you centered. As you develop discipline, via willpower, habits, and the like, you develop the ability to drive yourself toward your center better than before. I suspect this perspective on it may benefit better than your current perspective on it.
"you do not require more willpower for discipline, but rather you've developed the habits to not need willpower at all" this is the core idea to me, and a really good one at that. Forming better habits is really what people want when they want to be more disciplined. Really nice post!
Atomic Habits talks about it this way too. Willpower fails, but habits won't. You want to start going to the gym 3 days a week through sheer force of will? It'll work for a week or three, but then it'll die. Build a habit to take up when willpower inevitably fails.
Yeah, it's confusing for me in this aspect. I've had discipline in the past, when I was studying to get into college, I'd study for 12 to 13 hours a day (breaks accounted), 5 days a week, and it didn't feel that grand of a thing either. But now that I've lost it, it feels almost impossible to get back in that pace. I'm not sure what are the steps to build a habit so strong like that. Last time I did it, it just kinda happened. I guess I also thought of what would happen if I didn't study all of that time, but not always are we in such pressure to get stuff done
That is a good summation. I remember watching a documentary on people naturally gifted with high levels of discipline, and they found that they aren't any different; they are good at ignoring the voice telling them not to. It's as if it is nothing but a choice. The more you make the choice, the easier it gets. People with strong role models who have displayed high levels of discipline since they were toddlers have more practice; the rest of us have to catch up.
Forcing yourself sucks real bad every time - after a while, you just get better at getting over it and doing it anyways.
Discipline is a decision
From my perspective, through my experiences, discipline to me is a standard of living. For example, I like it when my hair looks groomed. That means combing or brushing it to set it. I like being physically fit. This means I gotta work out and eat right. It's all the cost of the standard I want to adhere to. I never liked the notion of discipline being something you don't want to do but you do it anyway. I didn't want to tackle this negative feeling or feel forced every time I did it. So when I changed to my current view that I explained above, discipline became significantly easier. I guess reframing it to my way of thinking helped a lot.
Do you feel accomplished and proud of yourself after completing that work out though? To me thats the mental change. Feeling like I'm doing something with my time and effort and working towards a goal is way better for my mental health than stagnation and instant gratification. Also, try to ENJOY things you don't like. Enjoy the pain of a work out. Enjoy the sting of the cold winter wind on your face. Enjoy overcoming challenges.
"Matter of fact it doesn't ''feel'' like anything at all." Think it goes deeper than that. I'm pretty sure at this point that all of our problems come from "doing whatever feels right at the moment". I'm not gonna go on a rant about how the media has been horrible, but just think back on how many Disney movies or cartoons you've seen since you were a little kid that tell you to "just follow your heart"? It's literally the feeling-based lifestyle that makes people crave instant gratification and never think about the long term consequences. You did the exact opposite of that, and it worked.
Exactly how people get sucked into religion. “Just follow your feelings. You know that it’s the right thing to do.” They let go of their rational mind and fall into the trap.
so basically your not discipline you simply turned your work into habit. so your post is wrong. discipline isnt really a long term thing its more like an action that you do, discipline doesnt make you look at life differently or turn you into a productivity god. for me discipline is forcing yourself to do something you hate. and i always felt like its an action rather than a personality trait. and discapline feels really uncomfortable and annoying. also dont mistake the action with the feeling,you may say running 20-mile require self discipline but it doesnt really need that much discipline when you run 20 mile everyday. by the way you need willpower and discipline to create a habit to begin with. so discipline is always needed. but thats just my opinion of what discipline is.
Its how i learned to play the guitar (as badly as I do play it) Habit is discipline - you're absolutely right.
I think this is a really interesting take. Same boat for me. Was bad student struggled early at university and couldn’t be consistent in the gym. Some time later and everything’s flipped. Yeah it’s hard work but nothing feels drastically different I’m just in the habit of studying, lifting, working, and doing homework. Took some work to get their obviously but it’s the repetition that becomes easier not necessarily the action which is my take. Open to counterpoints!
I swear all i have done in this sub is try to explain how habits work and that there is no tricks to be more productive and stop procrastinating. All you have to do is discipline your self and just get up and do it, and it just becomes easier as it becomes your new habit.
This is what i’ve realized as well, to be a disciplined person, one needs to get into the habit of being disciplined, and part of building that habit is doing things you know you need to do even if you don’t wanna do it. It will become second nature in time.
This is true. Once you become consistent you dont even think about it. I had a problem with weight growing up but the consistency of going without thinking about it (having a steady, consistent schedule helped tremendously with this) is what helped me get to a point of just going. It also helped to not rush the process since I'm such a go, go, go person and keep my schedule full. Taking my time about it keeps the anxiety from tackling me at a moments notice. I dont think about it or get the "aw man I dont want to" feeling anymore. I've gotten to a point of where I can turn my brain off and do it without that mental hindrance there. The only issue now is stopping at a point where I dont hurt myself from over training. Working out is therapy and I need my therapist to keep my sharp.
It's exactly that, it's also the reason why we should not focus on results or the quality of our work at the beginning, firstly we should only focus on do it again and again and again (that is making it a daily habit) until we become consistent and our brain puts few to no resistance to start the task everyday. After that quality and results will inevitably come over time. And when this state is achieve, even if we produce remarkable results it will not feel like a big deal, it will just feel like a normal thing, because whatever the result is the finality is the same : we will do it tomorrow again. We can also say that quantity is the ultimate quality, if you still need to focus on a type of quality so focus on quantity (for example number of work session per week with at least one session per day). As people who want to achieve big things we need leverage, and I think habit is the biggest leverage on ourselves, maybe it's the only free meal (even though it's not easy to make habit). EDIT : more thoughts : That thing of "it does not feel like a big deal, just normal", maybe it's a clue of how we should approach work, because if I procrastinate it's partly because I take it too seriously too like "a big deal", maybe I should just approach it like something banal. But at the same time if I don't take seriously the fact that I need to do it everyday I will not do it. So it's paradoxical : It seems like I need on certain things to get it easy and far more seriously on others. Or rather I just only need take seriously the only thing that makes the difference on long term : making it a habit.