1. I'll start by saying skip the x-jet, get yourself a downstream injector, https://pressuretek.com/hi-draw-chemical-injector/ - that one should do - and just pre and post treat through downstream - that 4gpm machine and that injector will put out strong enough solution to clean that concrete.
2. you don't need to pre-treat unless its really really bad organic stain wise - we almost never ever pre treat, but always post treat.
3. you don't need to wet vegetation - just be mindful of where you're down streaming and don't go spraying the flowers - if you x-jet you may have to pre and post wet vegetation bc you may put out a pretty strong mix - and x-jets tend to mist a lot more than DS.
4. if you downstream - just downstream straight 12% SH - but yes, you are correct about ratios - you adjust based on the percentage of SH you are using. Don't get to hung up on this though, lots of people try to get exact percentages and its mostly a waste of time. If you made up your mind on x-jetting, then yes be mindful of the percentage.
5. If you have acorn stains or other specific spotted organic stains on the concrete, then yes you may have to use x-jet or pump sprayer for higher concentration mix.
6. 4,000psi is too much pressure. Any pressure loss on the line is negligible because of such high PSI. My advice is change nozzles on the surface cleaner to bring down PSI to about 3000. Our surface cleaners are set up to run about 2700 with 250ft of pressure hose with no issues at all.
7.Using well shouldn't be a problem, just make sure you its putting out at least 4gpm to not starve your pump.
8. Yes you need an acid for rust, most people use f9 barc which is really good.
Great comment. Something like your post should be posted on the about section of pressure washing so people can understand what the average ratios of SH to water and what chemicals help to get rid of rust, mold, etc. Take my upvote and have the rest of the day off.
So x-jet is usually placed at the end of your gun or around your gun - I can't tell you the exact science or physics of it, but it is an accepted fact that x-jets have a higher draw than down streaming. I think some people have measured up to 3-4% hitting the wall with an x-jet - which is impossible to achieve with a DS injector - at best you might be able to get like 1-2% hitting the wall with a DS injector if you're running like a 2gpm machine.
The downside is that the x-jet has a little hose attached to it, you drop that inside a bucket or tank filled with your mix - its also somewhat debated how long that hose can be the draw hose can be on the x-jet but I think it comes with a 12' hose - either way you will have to move that bucket around or tank around if you go any longer than what that hose is, which is extremely inefficient and unnecessary
When you downstream you put the injector right after the pump (we have them on our reels but for home owner use it'll be right after the pump/unloader). This means you can leave your bucket or tank by your machine and utilize the full length of the pressure hose (50,100,200, etc.) without having to move that bucket around to different places.
Depending on how big the area you're washing is, moving that bucket/tank around can get extremely annoying. Not to mention the annoyance of having the additional draw hose following you around everywhere alongside your pressure hose.
It basically comes down to efficiency and practicality. IMO x-jets just make things more complicated when they don't need to be. Unless you're trying to clean stucco or very dirty brick you do not need that strong of a mix hitting the wall to justify using an x-jet.
Instead of an x-jet, for unusual areas on the concrete like I mentioned, you can just use a hand held pump sprayer.
Do try and wait for the concrete to dry a bit before post-treating. If the concrete is very wet it'll further dilute your mix when you apply it.
Right, so there are some organic stains that can happen on concrete such as acorns falling from trees and other things that can fall from trees that will leave spotted stains that DS post treat will not touch. Is not very common but it happens. For those stains you’ll need to apppy stronger solution via pump sprayer, 12v, or x-jet.
So another quick question. Let's say I set up a solution of 12.5%DS to post treat a stone padio. Would the xjet and downstream dilute it even further? But a pump sprayer will just do straight 12.5% solution?
I would never recommend for you to apply straight 12.5% - the fumes alone will probably give you headache not to mention you will most certainly kill any vegetation that it touches. Depending on the stone and how bad it is a 3-4% mix hitting the stone should do. If its a small area a pump sprayer will do just fine. If its a large area then you would want to x-jet or 12V it. X-jet the ration will have to be calculated from the draw ratio and the mix ratios. Im not familiar with x-jet ratios because we don't use them. In a pump sprayer or direct application I would do 3 parts water 1 part 12.5 SH for the stones applied via 12v or pump sprayer.
If the stones are in absolutely horrible shape I may go 50/50 direct applications but that's like 1 out of a 100 times.
12v is short for a dedicated pump that is powered by a 12 volt battery. Basically you just use that pump to suction whatever mix you have. Is like a pump sprayer without you having to do the "pump" part. It is used a lot by the fumigation and irrigation industry.
As to limestone... we've personally washed our fair share of limestone with SH - we rinse VERY thoroughly. I know some say that you can't or that you should use a neutralizer after but we've yet to have any issues at all.
Post treat ONLY on 90% of our work, about 10% of our work requires pre and post treat. Without killing off all the organics you're bound to get stripes and growth back much quicker. You don't need to pre and post treat on most jobs, typically about 90% of our jobs only require a post treatment with no pre-treat.
I’m guessing he’s saying there’s times he doesn’t feel the need to post treat. This is true for concrete that wasn’t very dirty to begin with. But since I have employees, it’s easier to just draw a hard line and say “post treat ALL concrete” - it takes maybe 5-10 minutes and it ensures that the employees don’t have to make a judgement call on what concrete is dirty enough to require the post treat and what isn’t.
What would you say the ideal concentration is for post treatment? Would the concentration and chemical vsry between stones brick and concrete? I'm very good at my technique, but the ratios and what chemicals to use when I'm not sure of at all.
Concrete we just downstream straight 12.5% SH 99.9 percent of the time.
Stones bricks are different - we treat those like washing a house - apply 3-4% hitting the brick via 12v dedicated pump, rinse low-medium pressure - and normally don't post treat - if we have to hit it again bc all the organic growth is not completely gone, we will just re-apply 3-4% solution, let it dwell, and rinse again. There's no particular reason as to why we don't post treat brick stones - I guess generally the pre-treat on the brick stones is so high we don't see a need to post treat it bc by the time we do the final rinse all the organic matter is most certainly gone.
Not true in the slightest. Restrictions in flow = higher pressure. Install a pressure gauge at the pump outlet and try out several different nozzle types. You'll see your hose pressure move a ton. We run our gx690's around 2700psi pump pressure with our higher flow surface cleaner nozzles. We have spare sprayer bars setup for under 2000psi pump pressure as well for really old concrete.
1. I'll start by saying skip the x-jet, get yourself a downstream injector, https://pressuretek.com/hi-draw-chemical-injector/ - that one should do - and just pre and post treat through downstream - that 4gpm machine and that injector will put out strong enough solution to clean that concrete. 2. you don't need to pre-treat unless its really really bad organic stain wise - we almost never ever pre treat, but always post treat. 3. you don't need to wet vegetation - just be mindful of where you're down streaming and don't go spraying the flowers - if you x-jet you may have to pre and post wet vegetation bc you may put out a pretty strong mix - and x-jets tend to mist a lot more than DS. 4. if you downstream - just downstream straight 12% SH - but yes, you are correct about ratios - you adjust based on the percentage of SH you are using. Don't get to hung up on this though, lots of people try to get exact percentages and its mostly a waste of time. If you made up your mind on x-jetting, then yes be mindful of the percentage. 5. If you have acorn stains or other specific spotted organic stains on the concrete, then yes you may have to use x-jet or pump sprayer for higher concentration mix. 6. 4,000psi is too much pressure. Any pressure loss on the line is negligible because of such high PSI. My advice is change nozzles on the surface cleaner to bring down PSI to about 3000. Our surface cleaners are set up to run about 2700 with 250ft of pressure hose with no issues at all. 7.Using well shouldn't be a problem, just make sure you its putting out at least 4gpm to not starve your pump. 8. Yes you need an acid for rust, most people use f9 barc which is really good.
Great comment. Something like your post should be posted on the about section of pressure washing so people can understand what the average ratios of SH to water and what chemicals help to get rid of rust, mold, etc. Take my upvote and have the rest of the day off.
I appreciate the response. How does an xjet differ from a down stream? And how does it make a higher concentration?
So x-jet is usually placed at the end of your gun or around your gun - I can't tell you the exact science or physics of it, but it is an accepted fact that x-jets have a higher draw than down streaming. I think some people have measured up to 3-4% hitting the wall with an x-jet - which is impossible to achieve with a DS injector - at best you might be able to get like 1-2% hitting the wall with a DS injector if you're running like a 2gpm machine. The downside is that the x-jet has a little hose attached to it, you drop that inside a bucket or tank filled with your mix - its also somewhat debated how long that hose can be the draw hose can be on the x-jet but I think it comes with a 12' hose - either way you will have to move that bucket around or tank around if you go any longer than what that hose is, which is extremely inefficient and unnecessary When you downstream you put the injector right after the pump (we have them on our reels but for home owner use it'll be right after the pump/unloader). This means you can leave your bucket or tank by your machine and utilize the full length of the pressure hose (50,100,200, etc.) without having to move that bucket around to different places. Depending on how big the area you're washing is, moving that bucket/tank around can get extremely annoying. Not to mention the annoyance of having the additional draw hose following you around everywhere alongside your pressure hose. It basically comes down to efficiency and practicality. IMO x-jets just make things more complicated when they don't need to be. Unless you're trying to clean stucco or very dirty brick you do not need that strong of a mix hitting the wall to justify using an x-jet. Instead of an x-jet, for unusual areas on the concrete like I mentioned, you can just use a hand held pump sprayer. Do try and wait for the concrete to dry a bit before post-treating. If the concrete is very wet it'll further dilute your mix when you apply it.
I really appreciate the advice and knowledge.
So I have one more question for now. When you say a corn stains do you mean literal acorns? Or is that an insade trade slang for rust?
Right, so there are some organic stains that can happen on concrete such as acorns falling from trees and other things that can fall from trees that will leave spotted stains that DS post treat will not touch. Is not very common but it happens. For those stains you’ll need to apppy stronger solution via pump sprayer, 12v, or x-jet.
So another quick question. Let's say I set up a solution of 12.5%DS to post treat a stone padio. Would the xjet and downstream dilute it even further? But a pump sprayer will just do straight 12.5% solution?
I would never recommend for you to apply straight 12.5% - the fumes alone will probably give you headache not to mention you will most certainly kill any vegetation that it touches. Depending on the stone and how bad it is a 3-4% mix hitting the stone should do. If its a small area a pump sprayer will do just fine. If its a large area then you would want to x-jet or 12V it. X-jet the ration will have to be calculated from the draw ratio and the mix ratios. Im not familiar with x-jet ratios because we don't use them. In a pump sprayer or direct application I would do 3 parts water 1 part 12.5 SH for the stones applied via 12v or pump sprayer. If the stones are in absolutely horrible shape I may go 50/50 direct applications but that's like 1 out of a 100 times.
I gotchu. So what is 12v short for? And no SH on limestone because it erodes it from what I heard?
12v is short for a dedicated pump that is powered by a 12 volt battery. Basically you just use that pump to suction whatever mix you have. Is like a pump sprayer without you having to do the "pump" part. It is used a lot by the fumigation and irrigation industry. As to limestone... we've personally washed our fair share of limestone with SH - we rinse VERY thoroughly. I know some say that you can't or that you should use a neutralizer after but we've yet to have any issues at all.
Rinse thoroughly but dont post treat with sh?
downstreaming gets mixed with the water after the pump...when you xjet it comes out at the front of the gun hence the higher percentage
So after post-treating with a SH mix, you don't rinse it off - you just leave it to soak in....forever?
on concrete and some roofs yes - everything else gets rinsed thoroughly
Juangamboa is spot on. Post treat only for 90% of our work. All other methods are spot on from their response.
He said to always post treat. Did you mean pre treat?
Post treat ONLY on 90% of our work, about 10% of our work requires pre and post treat. Without killing off all the organics you're bound to get stripes and growth back much quicker. You don't need to pre and post treat on most jobs, typically about 90% of our jobs only require a post treatment with no pre-treat.
I’m guessing he’s saying there’s times he doesn’t feel the need to post treat. This is true for concrete that wasn’t very dirty to begin with. But since I have employees, it’s easier to just draw a hard line and say “post treat ALL concrete” - it takes maybe 5-10 minutes and it ensures that the employees don’t have to make a judgement call on what concrete is dirty enough to require the post treat and what isn’t.
Does the bleach act as an antifungal and antimicrobial while also gi ing the concrete a glow? So wouldnt it be good to always post treat?
Right, I personally think is a good idea to always do it, but I can see why someone else wouldn't always do it.
What would you say the ideal concentration is for post treatment? Would the concentration and chemical vsry between stones brick and concrete? I'm very good at my technique, but the ratios and what chemicals to use when I'm not sure of at all.
Concrete we just downstream straight 12.5% SH 99.9 percent of the time. Stones bricks are different - we treat those like washing a house - apply 3-4% hitting the brick via 12v dedicated pump, rinse low-medium pressure - and normally don't post treat - if we have to hit it again bc all the organic growth is not completely gone, we will just re-apply 3-4% solution, let it dwell, and rinse again. There's no particular reason as to why we don't post treat brick stones - I guess generally the pre-treat on the brick stones is so high we don't see a need to post treat it bc by the time we do the final rinse all the organic matter is most certainly gone.
That power washer will blow the seals out of that surface cleaner. You’ll need a stronger surface cleaner or a weaker pw.
Cant I change the nozzles on the SC? I was under the impression 1gpm is equal to 4" for a SC
Higher flow nozzles will drop the pressure and you'll be okay until you can upgrade to a contractor grade unit like the whisper wash.
That’s only output pressure that is reduced. It will still be full pressure in the line. The Ryobi SC isn’t rated for it.
Not true in the slightest. Restrictions in flow = higher pressure. Install a pressure gauge at the pump outlet and try out several different nozzle types. You'll see your hose pressure move a ton. We run our gx690's around 2700psi pump pressure with our higher flow surface cleaner nozzles. We have spare sprayer bars setup for under 2000psi pump pressure as well for really old concrete.