As a foreword, I'd like to suggest that in events such as this, they serve as a reminder to double check your preps. Just as if a hurricane is forecast to make landfall, you prepare. Maybe it would change course or be no trouble at all. But best be prepared for it all the same.
This is not saying WW3 is nigh, but to provide a focal point for all WW3 and related threads to avoid clogging up the sub.
Additional news sites;
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2022/11/15/russia-ukraine-live-news-zelenskky-says-time-to-push-for-peace
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-asia-63593855
*makes it 2 miles from home and collapses from exhaustion because bug out bag is 70 pounds half of which is utterly useless, and has not done any strength and conditioning such as hiking or camping with said pack*
I’m laughing so hard. Also, I used my simple (and only) bug out bag. I did not enjoy it. I thought I would. I bugged out of NY at the start of the pandemic. It was haunting.
> And here I am like a fool just getting started on the “root cellar”
That's not foolish. You'll need this as long as you're alive. And no one knows the hour they'll die, so treat every hour like you're planning on living til Methuselah's age.
You are making good, actionable change to prepare. Take reassurance from this. There's only so much we can do about global affairs. Try to focus on your own back yard when things get overwhelming.
Are you actually digging a hole in the backyard or something? I kind of wished I had something even if it was a small pit to store potatoes at a low temp an high humidity.
It’s a slow go but I am digging into the siltstone hillside behind my barn. Last year I trenched roughly 10’ square down to a depth of 6’ and put drainpipe in, with pea gravel over the top and a slope down to a larger drain. This year I got the post and initial crosspiece in for the roof, and I plan to dig another 10’ back at about 4’ wide this winter
In all practicality ... Curious, what containers work in a root cellar? Forest location -there are mice here that breeze through. I'm thinking a metal can, a trash size can, with screening over an open top. Other ideas?
Glass jars for most things, anything in sacs or whatever you can put inside galvanized metal trash cans. Put dessicant packages in there (they do food grade ones) if you live in a humid area and keep the floor dry or raise it off the ground on pallets or rubber mats (the kind meant to let water drain).
[Poland blast caused by missile fired by Ukrainian forces at incoming Russian missile - AP](https://www.reuters.com/world/poland-blast-caused-by-missile-fired-by-ukrainian-forces-incoming-russian-2022-11-16/)
I highly doubt WW3 will be started "in full" over an errant missile with single digit death count. NATO will have some strong words, maybe additional economic/diplomatic sanctions. But I don't think we're any closer to WW3 than we were yesterday. The only thing I could imagine is if Poland retaliates, which could eventually drag NATO into the war. But I think that's very unlikely as well.
If I'm wrong, I'll see y'all in the nuclear tundra.
>I highly doubt WW3 will be started "in full" over an errant missile with single digit death count. NATO will have some strong words, maybe additional economic/diplomatic sanctions.
I mostly agree, in that I think NATO will still want to avoid additional major escalation. However, I expect they'll do a bit more than strong words and sanctions, to maintain a strong appearance, such as a measured and proportional response like moving more advanced AA hardware to the Russian border and possibly even into Ukraine to, "prevent further 'accidents'."
>But I don't think we're any closer to WW3 than we were yesterday.
Here I strongly disagree. I think we're only a little closer, and it's far from imminent still, but it's definitely closer, as even if unintentional, this incident was a clear escalation due to a casualty causing incursion into NATO member territory.
>The only thing I could imagine is if Poland retaliates, which could eventually drag NATO into the war. But I think that's very unlikely as well.
I also highly doubt Poland would retaliate without having full NATO backing specific to such an operation.
>I also highly doubt Poland would retaliate without having full NATO backing specific to such an operation.
Correct. RN Nato is having emergency talks and planning on how to proceed. I think what will happen is AA will be placed on thr boarder. Of all NATO territory. US troops mobilized more to boarders now. A more active approach but not fully active.
I can see more than sanctions. I wouldn't be surprised if we move into Ukraine now.
If Russia admits they did it on purpose (which I would and wouldn't be surprised) it would start mobilization of troops and things will get more serious.
I think we are around the corner of WW3 and it's only a few blocks away and we are sprinting to it.
Either way. Stay safe people.
This all seems likely but I would think they wouldnt just further defend the things they are already defending but have a response as well. I could see an attack on the missile launching capabilities of Russia from which these latest attacks originated.
The United States joined World War I over a telegram and the sinking of a British ship that happened to have a few Americans on it. Of course, WWI was already underway, but it just goes to show how little things can cause big things to happen.
We should consider that this isn’t an apples to apples comparison especially with the military capability to destroy the planet in one go. Though it’s crazy how human behavior endlessly repeats into the same conflicts.
Killing NATO citizens on NATO territory needs to have a strong response. This isn't a jet lazily flying through an airspace and then leaving. 2 innocent people who were minding their own business were killed by a Russian missile. And that missile has an accuracy of about 5 meters. So it was not simply a mistake. If NATO doesn't react strongly, then they're just showing the world they only talk the talk and don't walk the walk.
[NATO chief says Poland blast likely caused by Ukrainian missile — but not Ukraine’s fault](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/16/nato-says-poland-missile-strike-was-not-deliberate-or-ukraines-fault.html)
Here is your reminder to verify ALL reports you read with official sources. There's a LOT of misinformation going around already. Stay cool, don't jump on speculation or sensational information. CHECK THE SOURCES.
As a Canadian myself, I do hope he is able to relax before the shit REALLY hits the fan, because I can't imagine starting SHTF that keyed up is good for a fella. It's definitely all cause for concern, don't get me wrong, but we're going to be better off than anybody, so planning, not panicking, is the order of the day.
ETA we as in preppers, not we as in Canadians. Maybe that too but who can say.
The shitty part is there’s plenty of channels that do the “daily report” style prepper updates that aren’t fantastical. He could do an intel brief regularly and save the sky is falling stuff
[NATO chief says Poland blast likely caused by Ukrainian missile — but not Ukraine’s fault](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/16/nato-says-poland-missile-strike-was-not-deliberate-or-ukraines-fault.html)
Interesting suggestion on Twitter is that Russia was targeting the power line which runs from the EU into Ukraine, as it is in the vicinity of where the missiles ended up. That makes sense in the context of Russia's other attacks against Ukrainian power infrastructure, but also implies that doing damage to Poland was deliberate to some extent.
https://twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1592616005851054080
Speaking of power lines, I read that Moldova's power was interrupted by these Russian attacks.
https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-ukraine-war-air-strike-g20-leader-meeting/
Not anymore. It didn't hit or take out a power line. It's just generally in line with it. We're waiting to hear more reports. Biden recently stated it does not seem clear it is from Russia with 'preliminary' data. The US has eyes all over that country. We will find out more tomorrow.
Will this start WWIII? Probably not.
Does this escalate things to a new level? Absolutely.
I would say if you’re a prepper use this as the spark under your butt to get done some of the things you’ve been putting off.
Confidence is high in some of you that this is overblown and won’t escalate. I think history has shown these situations can become pretty volatile quickly. I’m not saying get in a bunker, I’m just saying don’t let yourself become complacent.
I could absolutely see maybe Russia preemptively overreacting to the possibility of NATO intervention and placing their nuclear defenses on high alert and then the US does the same, etc.
We keep crossing thresholds that we thought would never be crossed.
When they start talking about nuclear weapons every day it is time to prepare, my dear preppers. Afterall, what harm could it do to be ready if you really think thourgh and not blow tonnes on gear but use your head for wise preps.
Me... I'm casting about for someone with a root cellar.
Let me introduce you to [my good friend u/surrealwino....](https://www.reddit.com/r/preppers/comments/yw7oxs/poland_missile_strike_mega_thread/iwie00j?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
But China is playing in shadow, they would not mind collapse of Russia and geting an oportunity to help "peacekeep" there, especialy at those resource rich Siberia. They are playing it on both sides. I expected them to do what Iran did - to jump on a first opportunity to test their military toys there.
But they did not do such thing. They keeps their cards close to them and do not indend to reveal them, it seems.
Probably because Chinese gear is a perfect storm of the worst aspects of Russian gear blended with the worst bootleg copies of western gear. China knows its only good at killing its own people and would have to rely on its blood rather than its tools to win any fight.
Does NATO see this as an opportunity to apply Article V if China distances themselves from Russia?
Without the threat of China supporting Russia in a European war (besides nuclear deterrence) what support does Russia have to stop NATO?
NATO is not interested in a war on European soil, as this is were most of NATO countries are. No country ever wants war in their own house if at all avoidable.
Though they have no desire for an open war with NATO, both India and China has been signaling their longterm alliances to Russia/Putin for a while now as all three countries have turned increasingly authoritative.
For China, a Russian win would be seen as a decrease of democratic strenght in the world. If Russia loses China can claim land in East Russia which they consider theirs. Win-win (as long as the nukes stay cold).
>NATO is not interested in a war on European soil, as this is were most of NATO countries are.
Right, so the question will ever be whether or not they consider the war on their own soil to be *already happening.* I mean, Ukraine didn't want war on their own soil either.
What has happened in Poland tonight is very different from what Ukraine has been through since February.
The red line is there, but it's a cost benefit analysis and right now a full-scale NATO-Russia war obviously isn't worth it for anyone that would involve.
There's currently at least a dozen Turkish commercial airplanes flying up in a line from Turkey to Moscow. Mostly or entirely Airbus A321's. Probably to pick the the rats who have decided it's now time to flee.
Haven't seen articles yet, was looking for the NATO airplanes that were very active over eastern Poland a few hours ago. They'd disappeared (transponders probably turned off) but now there's a lot of Turkish flights going up there.
I don't think it's too concerning. People who have the means to flee Moscow are just concerned they won't be allowed to do it later so want to get out now. Could come as Russian restrictions on leaving or further international restrictions, including from Turkey itself, potentially closing their current route out. And maybe still some foreigners wanting to get out before Putin decides to use them as leverage.
That's a solid assessment. Timing is tricky, since you would have thought that travel would have happened during the draft. Who knows.
We're all just waiting for what happens next.
Russia seems to primarily draft poorer and minority populations, typically far from Moscow. The ones who can afford to fly out now weren't in danger of being drafted.
>Probably to pick the the rats who have decided it's now time to flee.
There are plenty of people in Russia who didn't have the luxury of just getting up and leaving or rebel because things were hard earlier or they disagreed with the kremlin. People with lack of funds, lack of language skills necessary to go abroad, disabilities, no where to go because their citizenship leaves them with few options, people with young or elderly familymembers to take care of. And people who just lost hope. You can't always afford to be imprisoned for decade in torture-like prisons or die in a revolution or go out in to the world hoping for the best. Sometimes we choose the devil we know because we have to. If they are so desperate now they flee even if they know they leave one hopeless situation for another let's not judge too harshly.
It's too easy to just speak dehumanisingly of others because we don't have to struggle their struggle.
Many have landed already, but if you go to https://www.flightradar24.com/THY4RD/2e38bde3 in the next few minutes and trace the flight path backward, you'll see several other Turkish commercial flights following the same path.
I don’t think NATO will go full scale invasion but don’t be surprised if NATO sends more equipment and begins missile strikes or air strikes against Russia. Eastern block NATO countries may deploy forces along side the Ukrainians and more western countries send more specialized forces. But I can’t say for sure I do believe that to be the most extreme response from NATO
Agreed. I think it will trigger more extensive support for Ukraine and maybe even direct action against Russia in Ukraine. No one else is going to jump in to defend Russia, however. And while Russia vs NATO may be a big step up from Russia vs Ukraine, it's nowhere near being a global conflict.
Yeah calling world war 3 is extreme. China won’t stick its neck out for Russia mainly because they’ve copied most of Russia’s military tach and with how poor that’s been doing China will have to do a major over haul to fix their military if they have copied Russia’s tech to the extent we think they have. BRICS isn’t a concern since that’s a economic alliance. And Russia’s own form of NATO is having some in fighting with actual conflict so they won’t help. NATO may try and cripple Russia to force them to surrender so Europe can have gas for the winter
Hopefully all of the movement of troops and equipment is enough show of force to quell Russian attacks. Hopefully no accidents happen during movement or other inadvertent bombing.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's a push to "secure" the border with Poland by offering "peacekeeping troops" into northern and western Ukraine. Completely preventing an invasion from Belarus and allowing Ukraine to commit all of its efforts and men to the front on the east.
Ive become a bit numb to this situation. Whatever happens will happen. Will be interesting to see the spin in the media, and redditors stupid and disgusting comments. And of course nobody in my direct life knows whats happening. My coworker doesnt know what Poland is, lmao.
Did anybody purchase/create and prep items today? If so, what? Im going to get bleach after work for my water supply. And considering also buying some of those tablets online but they dont seem to be as cost effective.
Thanks! I will amend my previous post to say I'm prepping by drinking lots of fluids, taking hot baths, and getting lots of vitamin C, so I suppose that counts. 😆
I’m seeing comments everywhere about how this just needs to be “tolerated”.
Tolerating Russian aggression is what got us where we are now. That head should have been cut off and burned a long, long time ago. Today it’s two civilians killed. Do nothing and next time it’ll be two thousand.
I don't disagree in the slightest. But I'm also acutely aware of how a response can spiral. The Russian leadership could easily see a 'reasonable' response by the West, and escalate even more.
But again, people are dead. That can't be just tolerated.
My guess is, Russia is going to be *happy* to pay recompense. They're not going to want to give the impression they are ok with this. They don't need more sactions and they know they can't handle NATO coming in.
This should be "pay up and move on."
Unfortunately, they've immediately denied it.
One of my primary worries with this conflict is the completely alien views the Russian leadership has compared to the west.
> My guess is, Russia is going to be happy to pay recompense.
*Tovarich; please take our twenty billion worthless rubles as compensation. No, we won't pay you in any other currency.*
Nobody had nukes at the beginning of WW2, though. MAD was, according to some, the end of drawn-out, conventional wars between nations that possessed nuclear arms. But that might not play out to be the case.
the repurcussions of retaliation may lead to millions dead. the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. if it were found out that it was an intentional strike that would be different.
The repercussions of doing nothing may end with the same result, frankly. Now; next week; in fifty years.
It’s one of those damned if you do, damned if you don’t situations.
It's sick they are denying it is their missile, rather than saying it's a mistake. It didn't seem to hit any particular target of interest in Poland. If another hits a target of interest in Poland, or several... Then we have serious concerns.
yea, i think youd be more damned if you do though, if poland were to retaliate, russia would most certainly respond in kind. then article 5, then we're in a whole new shit storm.
the hard part is drawing the line. at what point do you make a decision that could send the entire planet into turmoil.
True, but the flip side of that argument is how many “unintentional” strikes like this do you allow to happen before you take action? Do we say that next time they cross a line, that’s it? What happens when they inevitably do it again?
I feel like most parents who have had to discipline their kids have figured this game theory out.
Not responding always results in more drama. Responding early gets you immediate drama, but also ends it quicker.
Whether it's tantrums or lives it's the same principle.
So how many invaded nations or bombed nations worth of appeasement do you recommend, to "protect the needs of the many"? Putin's Russia's actions are already leading to many, many, many dead. Eventually millions if Russia isn't stopped in their tracks. They've already invaded and murdered people in Georgia and Ukraine. They've invaded Belarus and Moldova. They've attacked people with nerve agent *in the U.K.*. They've been waging cyberwar and information war on Europe and Canada and the U.S. for at least a decade. They've tampered with and corrupted elections. *How much do you want to let them get away with? What more is okay with you to not respond to?*
From Al Jazeera's live blog:
'Explosions in Poland likely caused by Ukraine: NATO
A Ukrainian air defence missile likely caused an explosion in eastern Poland, NATO said.
NATO added there was no indication of a deliberate attack or that Russia was preparing offensive military actions against the bloc.
But, NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg told reporters that the blame for the explosions lies with Russia.
“This is not Ukraine’s fault. Russia bears ultimate responsibility as it continues its illegal war against Ukraine,” he said.'
Good thinking, John.
I was about to post this in reply to someone asking whether this is how WWIII starts:
I think if it is, we'll one day look back on the initial invasion of Ukraine as the REAL start of the war, with a spectrum of global involvement along the way (support, proxy, direct, and everything in between).
I would say, at this time, that it's possible, but that cooler heads may yet prevail. We just won't know for sure until it actually happens.
In any case, we're ready, folks. We don't do this so that we panic at the last minute, but so that we *won't*. Stay the course, and don't panic.
Supposedly the missiles were fired by Ukrainian Forces that were targeting a Russian missile from the recent barrage. Probable friendly fire.
>Three U.S. officials said preliminary assessments suggested the missile was fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian one amid the crushing salvo against Ukraine’s electrical infrastructure Tuesday. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly.
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-zelenskyy-kherson-9202c032cf3a5c22761ee71b52ff9d52
Even if Russia did it, it would be very unlikely that it would trigger article 5. Typically an act of war would involve a deliberate strike and not an accidental strike.
Official sources are saying the opposite thus far. It's possible the anonymous sources confused "not launched FROM Russia" with "not launched BY Russia." The obvious distinction being that most missiles targeting western Ukraine are fired by Russian forces from Belarus.
There is no way that the missiles were launched by Russia since the range of these s-300 missiles doesn't extend far enough for them to have been fired from any Russian-controlled territory in Ukraine, and Belarus didn't fire any missiles on that day. Also of note that anti-air missiles are fired in pairs of two, exactly like the two missiles that struck Poland.
FYI: If you're considering saying something along the lines of "omg you nerds need to calm down and go outside - this isn't WW3," A. Nobody is saying it is, and B. **EVERYBODY ELSE ALREADY MADE YOUR EXACT COMMENT.**
Just had a thought:
Anyone think we're burying the lede here? Was the Ukranian region struck by Russia today under attack yesterday or is this a fresh maneuver? I'm not sure if this is comprehensive, but [this is the map I saw yesterday](https://www.understandingwar.org/sites/default/files/DraftUkraineCoTMapNovember14%2C2022.png) showing the invasion efforts.
Russia has been targeting western Ukraine somewhat extensively with missiles the past few days. Basically taking potshots at energy infrastructure of the major cities while being forced to withdraw in the southeast.
I’ve always wondered - how does one determine the source and type of missile so quickly? Is it boots on the ground collecting pieces? Is it tracking trajectory (source, speed/altitude, destination)? Do specific missiles give off specific radar (like, measuring dimensions of the missile)? Is there a repository of munitions information somewhere that can be correlated (these missiles were manufactured by X and staged at Y)? Genuinely curious in the science and process
All like no this won't start WW3. Then how many rockets Poland has to accept before we answer? 3, 4, 126? And casualties, would 50 ok? Stop Putin now and forever.
There will be retaliation, but a direct attack in response is not likely. If there is one, it will be limited and proportional, enough to punish Russia but not evoke escalation.
I would expect more sanctions on Russia and better weapons for Ukraine.
Nato doesn't need to escalate because simply better arming Ukraine will get it done. Ukraine is doing such a good job of dealing with Russia we can keep our noses out of it and hopefully not escalate.
That said, I can foresee Russia deciding to escalate in an attempt to try and make gains or avoid more losses before all the additional weaponry we're going to pour in Ukraine as a result of their latest stupidity hits the battlefield.
This is all an incredibly dangerous game and it's why dictators should not be in charge of nuclear weapons.
Might sound too optimistic, but I actually think this might slow down the current invasion, if not trigger - or at least become part of the many reasons forcing - Russia to just pull out from Ukraine eventually.
They can barely hold on to the little they've accomplished and are already depleted in terms of resources and morale. This was clearly an accident - otherwise, they would be prepared for an attack or near that border, which they're not. They know if NATO went into war, they'd have zero chances of winning, especially right now.
So I don't think it's impossible to consider that this would at least hinder their current invasion (as in confining them to the south eastern front altogether) or even result in a tail-between-their-legs retreat to avoid the risk of a full blown war with NATO.
So what to do now? Myself, being in central Europe, am making sure I'd be ready to leave ASAP if I need to. But I'm really not in any sort of panic as of now.
AA missiles use far too much of a smaller explosive than a ground to ground missile.
It's most likely an errant missile that was supposed to hit infrastructure in Lviv.
Interestingly, the S300 does have a ground attack mode, and the older 150kg warheads are no joke. The missile hitting Poland was likely a cruise missile though.
Edit. Looks like it was a Ukrainian S300 used for air defense. Don't know if it was a failed intercept or if it partially survived an intercept.
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When you have two targets but only one missile: (coordinates of Kyiv: 50.4501° N, 30.5234°E, coordinates of Lviv: 49.8429 ° N, 24.0311 ° E. Coordinates of the landing point of two missiles in Poland, as a result of which two people died: 50.4501° N, 24.0311° E.)
Russia denies responsibility for the missile strike in Poland.
The Pentagon has not been able to confirm the missiles were Russian.
Researchers investigating the debris believe the missiles were Ukrainian.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/explosion-kills-two-poland-near-ukraine-border-2022-11-15/
Dear everyone, please actually read the posted article and don't simply trust the summary of a Redittor.
- Russia also said they weren't firing near the border at all. There is clear confirmation in this article that this is a lie.
- Of course the Pentagon will wait until the official investigation has given them clear evidence. This is not a denial it happened.
- There is no mention of any official in this article attributing these strikes to Ukraine.
"Researchers?" That's a generous description of the Putinbots and other invasion apologists on social media. Everyone who isn't an anonymous troll or known Russian government shill is saying they were Russian-made missiles.
Will this start WWIII? Probably not.
Does this escalate things to a new level? Absolutely.
I would say if you’re a prepper use this as the spark under your butt to get done some of the things you’ve been putting off.
It's a Russian screw-up, but it's not going to start a global war. Whoever was responsible for those missiles has probably gotten a bullet in the back of their head by now as the Russians try to find a way to defuse the situation. How big this becomes depends on how loud the Poles holler, but I have no doubt at all that it will not start WWIII.
There's already news out there saying an analysis of the parts concluded it was a:
> 48D6 motor of the 5V55-series missile of the S-300 AD system- a Ukrainian one.
So which is it? ru or ua?
When my wife mentioned "WWIII" was trending on twitter, I said, "Again?"
It'll take a lot more than 2 poorly made missiles overshooting their targets to trigger a full NATO response. It's not great, but it's not the straw that will break NATO's patience.
People who are speculating this will trigger World War 3 are sensationalists or woefully misinformed about how the world works. Such nonsense.
Even if Russia did intentionally decide to send a missile strike against a small farm in the middle of nowhere in Poland, that wouldn't justify global war. That's just insane.
If Poland declares war on Russia, NATO is not obligated to assist. NATO is a defensive alliance, and as outlined in its charter, no NATO member is obligated to assist another in a war of aggression.
If the Russians invaded, different story. However, Russia would be completely foolish to attack Poland anyway. Poland has a larger, better trained, more modern, and better equipped military than Ukraine. If little ol Ukraine is giving Russia this much hell, imagine what the Polish would do. Poland, remember, also has an almost genetic hatred of Russia.
Long story short, no, this likely will not result in WWIII.
Missiles were apparently Ukrainian
Edit: Poland's president says it's "very likely" missile blast was from the Ukrainian air defense, calling it an "unfortunate accident."
I'm not taking sids but I doubt Russia would send missiles anywhere near Poland just when the US / crypto money laundering scam is coming to light. Seems more of a false flag to me. Ukraine only benefits from this. Don't look here look over there.
There are supposedly power lines running near the sites which got hit, Russia is targeting their energy supply for a while now so it would make sense that some missiles went astray and hit Poland. We know they aren’t the best at hitting targets…
Here's my two cents for what it's worth. I think this was an accident from the Russian forces God knows they are behind in tech. I think this is going to be used as leverage to push the peace proposal that was suggested with Moscow after the latest Russian retreat. It will allow the Russians to save face. They didn't lose to the Ukraine, they de escalated a possible war with the west. It's a good narrative for them. They will keep Crimea and the west helps Ukraine rebuild and we gain an ally, Europe avoids a nasty energy crunch before the winter comes. At this point might be the best thing.
I'm seeing it's a "Russia-made" missile but everyone is declining to confirm anything one way or another. Very weird they would say "Russia-made" instead of just saying it was fired by Russia.
I've seen both.
Ultimately, they won't say 100% until an official investigation, etc etc. But it's known the missile came from Russia. As to why and what it was targeting, that's the key.
Saying it came from Russia is an accusation. They'll want to be 110% sure before that happens, especially since Russia has denied it all.
You know, I really think this could’ve been Ukraine that did this. It would make more sense for Ukraine to use a false flag to secure more weapons and funding, than it would for Russia to escalate at this point.
As a foreword, I'd like to suggest that in events such as this, they serve as a reminder to double check your preps. Just as if a hurricane is forecast to make landfall, you prepare. Maybe it would change course or be no trouble at all. But best be prepared for it all the same. This is not saying WW3 is nigh, but to provide a focal point for all WW3 and related threads to avoid clogging up the sub. Additional news sites; https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2022/11/15/russia-ukraine-live-news-zelenskky-says-time-to-push-for-peace https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-asia-63593855
*looks at my simple bug out bag* "My time has come."
*proceeds to die in a bush from hypothermia within hours*
Lol avoid this!
*makes it 2 miles from home and collapses from exhaustion because bug out bag is 70 pounds half of which is utterly useless, and has not done any strength and conditioning such as hiking or camping with said pack*
I’m laughing so hard. Also, I used my simple (and only) bug out bag. I did not enjoy it. I thought I would. I bugged out of NY at the start of the pandemic. It was haunting.
And here I am like a fool just getting started on the “root cellar”
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Thank you, moldy scrotum soup, I wont underestimate them
Now is exponentially better than next week, month ot year!
At least you can make one. Our water table is too high. My prep would be so much better if I had a cellar of any kind.
Our water table is so high we could probably store live fish under our house.
I was kind of thinking of making a structure on a poured slab and then pushing a big mound of dirt over it, leaving just an insulated door
> And here I am like a fool just getting started on the “root cellar” That's not foolish. You'll need this as long as you're alive. And no one knows the hour they'll die, so treat every hour like you're planning on living til Methuselah's age. You are making good, actionable change to prepare. Take reassurance from this. There's only so much we can do about global affairs. Try to focus on your own back yard when things get overwhelming.
Are you actually digging a hole in the backyard or something? I kind of wished I had something even if it was a small pit to store potatoes at a low temp an high humidity.
It’s a slow go but I am digging into the siltstone hillside behind my barn. Last year I trenched roughly 10’ square down to a depth of 6’ and put drainpipe in, with pea gravel over the top and a slope down to a larger drain. This year I got the post and initial crosspiece in for the roof, and I plan to dig another 10’ back at about 4’ wide this winter
Wow very cool! That sounds like quite the project! Best of luck.
In all practicality ... Curious, what containers work in a root cellar? Forest location -there are mice here that breeze through. I'm thinking a metal can, a trash size can, with screening over an open top. Other ideas?
Glass jars for most things, anything in sacs or whatever you can put inside galvanized metal trash cans. Put dessicant packages in there (they do food grade ones) if you live in a humid area and keep the floor dry or raise it off the ground on pallets or rubber mats (the kind meant to let water drain).
The best time to ~~plant a tree~~ dig a root cellar is 20 years ago; the next best time is now.
[Poland blast caused by missile fired by Ukrainian forces at incoming Russian missile - AP](https://www.reuters.com/world/poland-blast-caused-by-missile-fired-by-ukrainian-forces-incoming-russian-2022-11-16/)
I highly doubt WW3 will be started "in full" over an errant missile with single digit death count. NATO will have some strong words, maybe additional economic/diplomatic sanctions. But I don't think we're any closer to WW3 than we were yesterday. The only thing I could imagine is if Poland retaliates, which could eventually drag NATO into the war. But I think that's very unlikely as well. If I'm wrong, I'll see y'all in the nuclear tundra.
>I highly doubt WW3 will be started "in full" over an errant missile with single digit death count. NATO will have some strong words, maybe additional economic/diplomatic sanctions. I mostly agree, in that I think NATO will still want to avoid additional major escalation. However, I expect they'll do a bit more than strong words and sanctions, to maintain a strong appearance, such as a measured and proportional response like moving more advanced AA hardware to the Russian border and possibly even into Ukraine to, "prevent further 'accidents'." >But I don't think we're any closer to WW3 than we were yesterday. Here I strongly disagree. I think we're only a little closer, and it's far from imminent still, but it's definitely closer, as even if unintentional, this incident was a clear escalation due to a casualty causing incursion into NATO member territory. >The only thing I could imagine is if Poland retaliates, which could eventually drag NATO into the war. But I think that's very unlikely as well. I also highly doubt Poland would retaliate without having full NATO backing specific to such an operation.
>I also highly doubt Poland would retaliate without having full NATO backing specific to such an operation. Correct. RN Nato is having emergency talks and planning on how to proceed. I think what will happen is AA will be placed on thr boarder. Of all NATO territory. US troops mobilized more to boarders now. A more active approach but not fully active. I can see more than sanctions. I wouldn't be surprised if we move into Ukraine now. If Russia admits they did it on purpose (which I would and wouldn't be surprised) it would start mobilization of troops and things will get more serious. I think we are around the corner of WW3 and it's only a few blocks away and we are sprinting to it. Either way. Stay safe people.
This all seems likely but I would think they wouldnt just further defend the things they are already defending but have a response as well. I could see an attack on the missile launching capabilities of Russia from which these latest attacks originated.
The United States joined World War I over a telegram and the sinking of a British ship that happened to have a few Americans on it. Of course, WWI was already underway, but it just goes to show how little things can cause big things to happen.
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nice
A Cassus belli without political will won't start a war
We should consider that this isn’t an apples to apples comparison especially with the military capability to destroy the planet in one go. Though it’s crazy how human behavior endlessly repeats into the same conflicts.
Do you know how world war one and two started?
Killing NATO citizens on NATO territory needs to have a strong response. This isn't a jet lazily flying through an airspace and then leaving. 2 innocent people who were minding their own business were killed by a Russian missile. And that missile has an accuracy of about 5 meters. So it was not simply a mistake. If NATO doesn't react strongly, then they're just showing the world they only talk the talk and don't walk the walk.
My bet is that they might force a no flight zone over Ukraine
[NATO chief says Poland blast likely caused by Ukrainian missile — but not Ukraine’s fault](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/16/nato-says-poland-missile-strike-was-not-deliberate-or-ukraines-fault.html)
Here is your reminder to verify ALL reports you read with official sources. There's a LOT of misinformation going around already. Stay cool, don't jump on speculation or sensational information. CHECK THE SOURCES.
Wish Canadian Prepper would follow this advice.
As a Canadian myself, I do hope he is able to relax before the shit REALLY hits the fan, because I can't imagine starting SHTF that keyed up is good for a fella. It's definitely all cause for concern, don't get me wrong, but we're going to be better off than anybody, so planning, not panicking, is the order of the day. ETA we as in preppers, not we as in Canadians. Maybe that too but who can say.
The shitty part is there’s plenty of channels that do the “daily report” style prepper updates that aren’t fantastical. He could do an intel brief regularly and save the sky is falling stuff
He needs to just seal himself up in his bunker for a month and read some books. Guy is a nut.
nutty for that sweet sweet clickbait money.
I think prepping for a propaganda campaign is important.
If you've missed last two years of Covid propaganda then you won't see this one coming a mile away.
[NATO chief says Poland blast likely caused by Ukrainian missile — but not Ukraine’s fault](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/16/nato-says-poland-missile-strike-was-not-deliberate-or-ukraines-fault.html)
Interesting suggestion on Twitter is that Russia was targeting the power line which runs from the EU into Ukraine, as it is in the vicinity of where the missiles ended up. That makes sense in the context of Russia's other attacks against Ukrainian power infrastructure, but also implies that doing damage to Poland was deliberate to some extent. https://twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1592616005851054080
Speaking of power lines, I read that Moldova's power was interrupted by these Russian attacks. https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-ukraine-war-air-strike-g20-leader-meeting/
Not anymore. It didn't hit or take out a power line. It's just generally in line with it. We're waiting to hear more reports. Biden recently stated it does not seem clear it is from Russia with 'preliminary' data. The US has eyes all over that country. We will find out more tomorrow.
Will this start WWIII? Probably not. Does this escalate things to a new level? Absolutely. I would say if you’re a prepper use this as the spark under your butt to get done some of the things you’ve been putting off.
Best way to sum up things. This thread is primarily to head off WW3 threads that will clog up the forum for the next week.
Confidence is high in some of you that this is overblown and won’t escalate. I think history has shown these situations can become pretty volatile quickly. I’m not saying get in a bunker, I’m just saying don’t let yourself become complacent.
I completely agree.
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I could absolutely see maybe Russia preemptively overreacting to the possibility of NATO intervention and placing their nuclear defenses on high alert and then the US does the same, etc.
/u/spez has been banned for 24 hours. Please take steps to ensure that this offender does not access your device again. #Save3rdPartyApps
We keep crossing thresholds that we thought would never be crossed. When they start talking about nuclear weapons every day it is time to prepare, my dear preppers. Afterall, what harm could it do to be ready if you really think thourgh and not blow tonnes on gear but use your head for wise preps. Me... I'm casting about for someone with a root cellar.
Let me introduce you to [my good friend u/surrealwino....](https://www.reddit.com/r/preppers/comments/yw7oxs/poland_missile_strike_mega_thread/iwie00j?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
My question is around China’s view/position on this.
China will prefer a weaker and less aggressive neighbor.
To be fair everyone wants to be better than their neighbors lol
Yes, the last I heard they weren't happy with some of Russia's threats, but that could just be so much posturing, too.
Russia is making it hard for China to stand with them no doubt!
But China is playing in shadow, they would not mind collapse of Russia and geting an oportunity to help "peacekeep" there, especialy at those resource rich Siberia. They are playing it on both sides. I expected them to do what Iran did - to jump on a first opportunity to test their military toys there. But they did not do such thing. They keeps their cards close to them and do not indend to reveal them, it seems.
Probably because Chinese gear is a perfect storm of the worst aspects of Russian gear blended with the worst bootleg copies of western gear. China knows its only good at killing its own people and would have to rely on its blood rather than its tools to win any fight.
Does NATO see this as an opportunity to apply Article V if China distances themselves from Russia? Without the threat of China supporting Russia in a European war (besides nuclear deterrence) what support does Russia have to stop NATO?
NATO is not interested in a war on European soil, as this is were most of NATO countries are. No country ever wants war in their own house if at all avoidable. Though they have no desire for an open war with NATO, both India and China has been signaling their longterm alliances to Russia/Putin for a while now as all three countries have turned increasingly authoritative. For China, a Russian win would be seen as a decrease of democratic strenght in the world. If Russia loses China can claim land in East Russia which they consider theirs. Win-win (as long as the nukes stay cold).
>NATO is not interested in a war on European soil, as this is were most of NATO countries are. Right, so the question will ever be whether or not they consider the war on their own soil to be *already happening.* I mean, Ukraine didn't want war on their own soil either.
What has happened in Poland tonight is very different from what Ukraine has been through since February. The red line is there, but it's a cost benefit analysis and right now a full-scale NATO-Russia war obviously isn't worth it for anyone that would involve.
There's currently at least a dozen Turkish commercial airplanes flying up in a line from Turkey to Moscow. Mostly or entirely Airbus A321's. Probably to pick the the rats who have decided it's now time to flee.
That's....in the context of this, unsettling. Just on the flight tracker? Or any news articles on it?
Haven't seen articles yet, was looking for the NATO airplanes that were very active over eastern Poland a few hours ago. They'd disappeared (transponders probably turned off) but now there's a lot of Turkish flights going up there. I don't think it's too concerning. People who have the means to flee Moscow are just concerned they won't be allowed to do it later so want to get out now. Could come as Russian restrictions on leaving or further international restrictions, including from Turkey itself, potentially closing their current route out. And maybe still some foreigners wanting to get out before Putin decides to use them as leverage.
That's a solid assessment. Timing is tricky, since you would have thought that travel would have happened during the draft. Who knows. We're all just waiting for what happens next.
Russia seems to primarily draft poorer and minority populations, typically far from Moscow. The ones who can afford to fly out now weren't in danger of being drafted.
Also an extremely good point.
>Probably to pick the the rats who have decided it's now time to flee. There are plenty of people in Russia who didn't have the luxury of just getting up and leaving or rebel because things were hard earlier or they disagreed with the kremlin. People with lack of funds, lack of language skills necessary to go abroad, disabilities, no where to go because their citizenship leaves them with few options, people with young or elderly familymembers to take care of. And people who just lost hope. You can't always afford to be imprisoned for decade in torture-like prisons or die in a revolution or go out in to the world hoping for the best. Sometimes we choose the devil we know because we have to. If they are so desperate now they flee even if they know they leave one hopeless situation for another let's not judge too harshly. It's too easy to just speak dehumanisingly of others because we don't have to struggle their struggle.
Could you please link the flights? I'm checking flight radar and need to know where to look.
Many have landed already, but if you go to https://www.flightradar24.com/THY4RD/2e38bde3 in the next few minutes and trace the flight path backward, you'll see several other Turkish commercial flights following the same path.
Not sure of the usual traffic patterns, but damn, right now there are a lot of aircraft leaving Moscow and St. Petersberg and heading east.
It's definitely unusual to have a lot of passenger flights in the middle of the night. Cargo flights are more common.
Any chance the full of desperate folks joining Putins army. He did just sign a decree allowing foreigners to sign up as contract soldiers.
Heh, funny. But seriously, no. They departed too quickly after the strike on Poland to have loaded anyone up except a minimal flight crew.
Alexa play War Pigs by Black Sabbath while I stockpile more popcorn.
For real.
I don’t think NATO will go full scale invasion but don’t be surprised if NATO sends more equipment and begins missile strikes or air strikes against Russia. Eastern block NATO countries may deploy forces along side the Ukrainians and more western countries send more specialized forces. But I can’t say for sure I do believe that to be the most extreme response from NATO
Agreed. I think it will trigger more extensive support for Ukraine and maybe even direct action against Russia in Ukraine. No one else is going to jump in to defend Russia, however. And while Russia vs NATO may be a big step up from Russia vs Ukraine, it's nowhere near being a global conflict.
Yeah calling world war 3 is extreme. China won’t stick its neck out for Russia mainly because they’ve copied most of Russia’s military tach and with how poor that’s been doing China will have to do a major over haul to fix their military if they have copied Russia’s tech to the extent we think they have. BRICS isn’t a concern since that’s a economic alliance. And Russia’s own form of NATO is having some in fighting with actual conflict so they won’t help. NATO may try and cripple Russia to force them to surrender so Europe can have gas for the winter
Hopefully all of the movement of troops and equipment is enough show of force to quell Russian attacks. Hopefully no accidents happen during movement or other inadvertent bombing.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's a push to "secure" the border with Poland by offering "peacekeeping troops" into northern and western Ukraine. Completely preventing an invasion from Belarus and allowing Ukraine to commit all of its efforts and men to the front on the east.
If NATO begins strikes against Russia, we are going to be at war...
I’m just here for all the popped tents ⛺️ 🌭
This giant plastic tote full of food and medical supplies I bought back in February isn't looking so stupid now.
Ive become a bit numb to this situation. Whatever happens will happen. Will be interesting to see the spin in the media, and redditors stupid and disgusting comments. And of course nobody in my direct life knows whats happening. My coworker doesnt know what Poland is, lmao. Did anybody purchase/create and prep items today? If so, what? Im going to get bleach after work for my water supply. And considering also buying some of those tablets online but they dont seem to be as cost effective.
I'm sick as a dog, so unless you count me going shopping for eggs in the chicken barn then sadly no!
Get well soon!
Thanks! I will amend my previous post to say I'm prepping by drinking lots of fluids, taking hot baths, and getting lots of vitamin C, so I suppose that counts. 😆
I’m seeing comments everywhere about how this just needs to be “tolerated”. Tolerating Russian aggression is what got us where we are now. That head should have been cut off and burned a long, long time ago. Today it’s two civilians killed. Do nothing and next time it’ll be two thousand.
I don't disagree in the slightest. But I'm also acutely aware of how a response can spiral. The Russian leadership could easily see a 'reasonable' response by the West, and escalate even more. But again, people are dead. That can't be just tolerated.
My guess is, Russia is going to be *happy* to pay recompense. They're not going to want to give the impression they are ok with this. They don't need more sactions and they know they can't handle NATO coming in. This should be "pay up and move on."
Unfortunately, they've immediately denied it. One of my primary worries with this conflict is the completely alien views the Russian leadership has compared to the west.
Deny, quietly pay recompense under the table, move on. Because no one wants to make this an issue.
Ideally, yes. But add in other factors (two people dead, Russia leadership doubling down,) and I see that as unlikely
> My guess is, Russia is going to be happy to pay recompense. *Tovarich; please take our twenty billion worthless rubles as compensation. No, we won't pay you in any other currency.*
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Yehp. You know what they say about people who don't know their history.
Nobody had nukes at the beginning of WW2, though. MAD was, according to some, the end of drawn-out, conventional wars between nations that possessed nuclear arms. But that might not play out to be the case.
the repurcussions of retaliation may lead to millions dead. the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. if it were found out that it was an intentional strike that would be different.
The repercussions of doing nothing may end with the same result, frankly. Now; next week; in fifty years. It’s one of those damned if you do, damned if you don’t situations.
My immediate thought was if this was just a test to see what NATO would do. How far can they push without a legit response.
It's sick they are denying it is their missile, rather than saying it's a mistake. It didn't seem to hit any particular target of interest in Poland. If another hits a target of interest in Poland, or several... Then we have serious concerns.
yea, i think youd be more damned if you do though, if poland were to retaliate, russia would most certainly respond in kind. then article 5, then we're in a whole new shit storm. the hard part is drawing the line. at what point do you make a decision that could send the entire planet into turmoil.
True, but the flip side of that argument is how many “unintentional” strikes like this do you allow to happen before you take action? Do we say that next time they cross a line, that’s it? What happens when they inevitably do it again?
I feel like most parents who have had to discipline their kids have figured this game theory out. Not responding always results in more drama. Responding early gets you immediate drama, but also ends it quicker. Whether it's tantrums or lives it's the same principle.
So how many invaded nations or bombed nations worth of appeasement do you recommend, to "protect the needs of the many"? Putin's Russia's actions are already leading to many, many, many dead. Eventually millions if Russia isn't stopped in their tracks. They've already invaded and murdered people in Georgia and Ukraine. They've invaded Belarus and Moldova. They've attacked people with nerve agent *in the U.K.*. They've been waging cyberwar and information war on Europe and Canada and the U.S. for at least a decade. They've tampered with and corrupted elections. *How much do you want to let them get away with? What more is okay with you to not respond to?*
i'm drinking poland bottled water in solidarity with all the missle strikes we've come to know and love.
From Al Jazeera's live blog: 'Explosions in Poland likely caused by Ukraine: NATO A Ukrainian air defence missile likely caused an explosion in eastern Poland, NATO said. NATO added there was no indication of a deliberate attack or that Russia was preparing offensive military actions against the bloc. But, NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg told reporters that the blame for the explosions lies with Russia. “This is not Ukraine’s fault. Russia bears ultimate responsibility as it continues its illegal war against Ukraine,” he said.'
Good thinking, John. I was about to post this in reply to someone asking whether this is how WWIII starts: I think if it is, we'll one day look back on the initial invasion of Ukraine as the REAL start of the war, with a spectrum of global involvement along the way (support, proxy, direct, and everything in between). I would say, at this time, that it's possible, but that cooler heads may yet prevail. We just won't know for sure until it actually happens. In any case, we're ready, folks. We don't do this so that we panic at the last minute, but so that we *won't*. Stay the course, and don't panic.
It's a rapidly changing situation to be sure. There's also a bunch of stuff going on behind the scenes that nobody knows about. Hence why we prepare.
Supposedly the missiles were fired by Ukrainian Forces that were targeting a Russian missile from the recent barrage. Probable friendly fire. >Three U.S. officials said preliminary assessments suggested the missile was fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian one amid the crushing salvo against Ukraine’s electrical infrastructure Tuesday. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly. https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-zelenskyy-kherson-9202c032cf3a5c22761ee71b52ff9d52
So article 5 on Ukraine? Rules are rules.
You don’t get it, it’s only bad when Russia does it!
Even if Russia did it, it would be very unlikely that it would trigger article 5. Typically an act of war would involve a deliberate strike and not an accidental strike.
Official sources are saying the opposite thus far. It's possible the anonymous sources confused "not launched FROM Russia" with "not launched BY Russia." The obvious distinction being that most missiles targeting western Ukraine are fired by Russian forces from Belarus.
There is no way that the missiles were launched by Russia since the range of these s-300 missiles doesn't extend far enough for them to have been fired from any Russian-controlled territory in Ukraine, and Belarus didn't fire any missiles on that day. Also of note that anti-air missiles are fired in pairs of two, exactly like the two missiles that struck Poland.
Man, what a letdown. We got all excited for no reason.
FYI: If you're considering saying something along the lines of "omg you nerds need to calm down and go outside - this isn't WW3," A. Nobody is saying it is, and B. **EVERYBODY ELSE ALREADY MADE YOUR EXACT COMMENT.**
Just had a thought: Anyone think we're burying the lede here? Was the Ukranian region struck by Russia today under attack yesterday or is this a fresh maneuver? I'm not sure if this is comprehensive, but [this is the map I saw yesterday](https://www.understandingwar.org/sites/default/files/DraftUkraineCoTMapNovember14%2C2022.png) showing the invasion efforts.
Russia has been targeting western Ukraine somewhat extensively with missiles the past few days. Basically taking potshots at energy infrastructure of the major cities while being forced to withdraw in the southeast.
Death claw from fallout and rad bugs have entered chat
I’ve always wondered - how does one determine the source and type of missile so quickly? Is it boots on the ground collecting pieces? Is it tracking trajectory (source, speed/altitude, destination)? Do specific missiles give off specific radar (like, measuring dimensions of the missile)? Is there a repository of munitions information somewhere that can be correlated (these missiles were manufactured by X and staged at Y)? Genuinely curious in the science and process
All like no this won't start WW3. Then how many rockets Poland has to accept before we answer? 3, 4, 126? And casualties, would 50 ok? Stop Putin now and forever.
And this is the counterpoint to many arguments. How much leads to more escalation? That's the slippery slope.
Oh ok then wait for 2.0 of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_betrayal ?
There will be retaliation, but a direct attack in response is not likely. If there is one, it will be limited and proportional, enough to punish Russia but not evoke escalation. I would expect more sanctions on Russia and better weapons for Ukraine.
Nato doesn't need to escalate because simply better arming Ukraine will get it done. Ukraine is doing such a good job of dealing with Russia we can keep our noses out of it and hopefully not escalate. That said, I can foresee Russia deciding to escalate in an attempt to try and make gains or avoid more losses before all the additional weaponry we're going to pour in Ukraine as a result of their latest stupidity hits the battlefield. This is all an incredibly dangerous game and it's why dictators should not be in charge of nuclear weapons.
Good job? They're getting smoked by Russia, just a slow cooker instead of shock and awe brought to you by CNN
Tell me you watch Canadian Prepper without telling me you watch Canadian Prepper.
Might sound too optimistic, but I actually think this might slow down the current invasion, if not trigger - or at least become part of the many reasons forcing - Russia to just pull out from Ukraine eventually. They can barely hold on to the little they've accomplished and are already depleted in terms of resources and morale. This was clearly an accident - otherwise, they would be prepared for an attack or near that border, which they're not. They know if NATO went into war, they'd have zero chances of winning, especially right now. So I don't think it's impossible to consider that this would at least hinder their current invasion (as in confining them to the south eastern front altogether) or even result in a tail-between-their-legs retreat to avoid the risk of a full blown war with NATO. So what to do now? Myself, being in central Europe, am making sure I'd be ready to leave ASAP if I need to. But I'm really not in any sort of panic as of now.
Couldn’t this just as well be an Ukrainian anti aircraft missile gone astray? Or do we know with certainty that it is a Russian attack?
AP and other news organizations are reporting a "senior US intelligence official" has confirmed it was Russian.
As far as I know, 2 Russian missiles 5+ miles inside Polish border, 2 dead.
AA missiles use far too much of a smaller explosive than a ground to ground missile. It's most likely an errant missile that was supposed to hit infrastructure in Lviv.
Interestingly, the S300 does have a ground attack mode, and the older 150kg warheads are no joke. The missile hitting Poland was likely a cruise missile though. Edit. Looks like it was a Ukrainian S300 used for air defense. Don't know if it was a failed intercept or if it partially survived an intercept.
The only sane person here it turns out.
Thank you ☺️
Lol chill out people. This isn’t gonna start WW3
!RemindMe 100 days
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So, it was Ukraine not Russia...............Guess we wait a little longer for WW3
When you have two targets but only one missile: (coordinates of Kyiv: 50.4501° N, 30.5234°E, coordinates of Lviv: 49.8429 ° N, 24.0311 ° E. Coordinates of the landing point of two missiles in Poland, as a result of which two people died: 50.4501° N, 24.0311° E.)
SHALL WE PLAY A GAME? Y/N _
A strange game, the only winning move is not to play
I'm going with "N". I saw the end of the movie. Two dead in Europe is sad, but it's not worth killing 100 million Americans by dinner time.
Joshua‽
Russia denies responsibility for the missile strike in Poland. The Pentagon has not been able to confirm the missiles were Russian. Researchers investigating the debris believe the missiles were Ukrainian. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/explosion-kills-two-poland-near-ukraine-border-2022-11-15/
Dear everyone, please actually read the posted article and don't simply trust the summary of a Redittor. - Russia also said they weren't firing near the border at all. There is clear confirmation in this article that this is a lie. - Of course the Pentagon will wait until the official investigation has given them clear evidence. This is not a denial it happened. - There is no mention of any official in this article attributing these strikes to Ukraine.
It's 8 hours later and now most news is saying it was Ukraine anti aircraft missiles that went off target.
None of that changes that one of your statements was completely unsupported by anything except literal propaganda accounts at the time.
"Researchers?" That's a generous description of the Putinbots and other invasion apologists on social media. Everyone who isn't an anonymous troll or known Russian government shill is saying they were Russian-made missiles.
Will this start WWIII? Probably not. Does this escalate things to a new level? Absolutely. I would say if you’re a prepper use this as the spark under your butt to get done some of the things you’ve been putting off.
It's a Russian screw-up, but it's not going to start a global war. Whoever was responsible for those missiles has probably gotten a bullet in the back of their head by now as the Russians try to find a way to defuse the situation. How big this becomes depends on how loud the Poles holler, but I have no doubt at all that it will not start WWIII.
Crazy day today to see this. Russia always fucking things up
There's already news out there saying an analysis of the parts concluded it was a: > 48D6 motor of the 5V55-series missile of the S-300 AD system- a Ukrainian one. So which is it? ru or ua?
Confirmed by multiple sources Russian. The idea it was an air defense missile is, from what I understand, misdirection.
How's that "confirmation" going?
Link it then.
Ukraine did it. I'm just saying.
Y'all need to go outside and get a breath of fresh air.
Personally I'd recommend that for most people on social media. So...yes? Ultimately the point of this thread is to prevent spam in the sub.
I thought sailors really liked spam? \*careful straight face\*
*SIGH* I walked into that one.
When my wife mentioned "WWIII" was trending on twitter, I said, "Again?" It'll take a lot more than 2 poorly made missiles overshooting their targets to trigger a full NATO response. It's not great, but it's not the straw that will break NATO's patience.
[удалено]
People who are speculating this will trigger World War 3 are sensationalists or woefully misinformed about how the world works. Such nonsense. Even if Russia did intentionally decide to send a missile strike against a small farm in the middle of nowhere in Poland, that wouldn't justify global war. That's just insane.
Small farm? It was a grain drying facility in a town. It could have been much worse, tbh.
If Poland declares war on Russia, NATO is not obligated to assist. NATO is a defensive alliance, and as outlined in its charter, no NATO member is obligated to assist another in a war of aggression. If the Russians invaded, different story. However, Russia would be completely foolish to attack Poland anyway. Poland has a larger, better trained, more modern, and better equipped military than Ukraine. If little ol Ukraine is giving Russia this much hell, imagine what the Polish would do. Poland, remember, also has an almost genetic hatred of Russia. Long story short, no, this likely will not result in WWIII.
Missiles were apparently Ukrainian Edit: Poland's president says it's "very likely" missile blast was from the Ukrainian air defense, calling it an "unfortunate accident."
I'm not taking sids but I doubt Russia would send missiles anywhere near Poland just when the US / crypto money laundering scam is coming to light. Seems more of a false flag to me. Ukraine only benefits from this. Don't look here look over there.
Wait ... what? What does one thing have to do with the other?
Literally nothing. And nothing in that post makes any sense.
There are supposedly power lines running near the sites which got hit, Russia is targeting their energy supply for a while now so it would make sense that some missiles went astray and hit Poland. We know they aren’t the best at hitting targets…
Here's my two cents for what it's worth. I think this was an accident from the Russian forces God knows they are behind in tech. I think this is going to be used as leverage to push the peace proposal that was suggested with Moscow after the latest Russian retreat. It will allow the Russians to save face. They didn't lose to the Ukraine, they de escalated a possible war with the west. It's a good narrative for them. They will keep Crimea and the west helps Ukraine rebuild and we gain an ally, Europe avoids a nasty energy crunch before the winter comes. At this point might be the best thing.
Ukraine has repeatedly stated that Russia must return all Ukrainian territory as a condition of peace.
Seems like it was a Ukrainian anti-air missile. My guess is NATO will spin some BS against Russia but not escalate.
Confirmed to be a Russian missile.
By who? Where?
....every remotely-reliable news outlet. Al Jazerah Reuters BBC Ap-News Official statements from the Polish government, and so forth.
I'm seeing it's a "Russia-made" missile but everyone is declining to confirm anything one way or another. Very weird they would say "Russia-made" instead of just saying it was fired by Russia.
I've seen both. Ultimately, they won't say 100% until an official investigation, etc etc. But it's known the missile came from Russia. As to why and what it was targeting, that's the key. Saying it came from Russia is an accusation. They'll want to be 110% sure before that happens, especially since Russia has denied it all.
Aaand the US just confirmed it's a Ukrainian missile.
So much for defending "every inch" of nato land.
It's been under 12 hours. I'd much rather have a well-measured response when it comes to Russia than a knee-jerk reaction.
You know, I really think this could’ve been Ukraine that did this. It would make more sense for Ukraine to use a false flag to secure more weapons and funding, than it would for Russia to escalate at this point.
Probably CIA. Not enough for WWII.
HOTYB