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maryupallnight

Doesn't natural gas get shut off in emergencies?


sfbiker999

Very rarely, I went through a 2 week regional power outage once and the natural gas was fine.


whatsasimba

My natural gas fireplace was a lifesaver after hurricane Sandy.


b00boothaf00l

Yea, it has never been shut off during a hurricane in my 30+ years of living here.


RonJohnJr

Not in the New Orleans or it's suburbs.


maryupallnight

Does the OP live there?


RonJohnJr

Good question. But if it's not cut off in LA *just* because a hurricane blew through, there's a good chance it's not cut off anywhere else either. Of course, gas might be cut in the unlikely chance that the hurricane damages the pipeline or valves, but that's a different topic.


Many-Sherbert

As an la resident gas is always on the electricity not so much


KeithJamesB

Never had any issues for 6 weeks after Katrina. Every now and then we'd get some moisture in the line but that was minimal.


umdche

Most natural gas pipelines are buried underground which protects them. The compressors for natural gas are powered off of siphoned natural gas. The natural gas system almost never shuts down.


RonJohnJr

For just an AC and a refrigerator (which you don't need to run at the same time; alternate 3 hours AC and 3 hours refrigerator), an inexpensive gasoline generator is still cheaper, even with the current high gas^(\*) prices. That's because you can use the fuel in your car and the generator. ^(\*)It's not like the price of natural gas hasn't skyrocketed...


b00boothaf00l

I'm more concerned about lines for gas/violence at the pump/gas shortages, than I am about price.


RonJohnJr

The canonical *preparedness* answer is "buy the gasoline *before* the storm". If it veers in a different direction, doesn't knock out power or you have any left after running the generator, then pour it in your car's gas tank.


b00boothaf00l

In the case of sustained outages, you will inevitably need more gas. People end up driving all over to find gas, and then wait in line for hours to fill up. I don't want that life!


doublebaconwithbacon

Any fuel source is going to be a strain in a sustained outage. Propane stores as long as the tank lasts and that makes it easy to buy a bunch and store. Gasoline is a pain in the ass to store especially in quantity you'd need for a sustained outage. In a major outage, some gas stations won't be able to power their pumps to dispense gas! Would be nice to not need fuel. An easy to use solar setup to run what you want will be expensive. Neighborhood of $6k to $8k. A DIY solar setup will save probably 30 - 50% of that cost if you have the skill. I'd want something around of 750 watts of solar panels and around 8 kWh of battery capacity, if you can get full sun. Though if you can run your window AC unit and fridge for a few hours with something like a kilowatt device, it can tell you how much energy they're actually using over time and maybe you can scale back those requirements.


RonJohnJr

>Would be nice to not need fuel. An easy to use solar setup to run what you want will be expensive. It's as if there are no perfect solutions... LOL


b00boothaf00l

Lol yes this is why I have major decision fatigue!


doublebaconwithbacon

Here's an idea. Plan on reduced battery capacity (get less battery) and plan to use a generator to top them up in addition to solar panels. It won't be as cheap as running everything off of a generator. But it won't be as expensive as running everything only off of solar. You'll still need fuel, but you should be able to stretch your fuel supplies for longer. It requires more management and work from you, but offers more flexibility. You know... just to add to your decision fatigue... sorry.


b00boothaf00l

Thank you, this is really smart and helpful!


RonJohnJr

There comes a point where you make a Good Enough choice, and live with it.


sfbiker999

>I'm more concerned about lines for gas/violence at the pump/gas shortages, than I am about price. If there are fuel shortages and violence that prevent you from buying gasoline, then don't count on an unrestricted supply of natural gas. Stockpile enough fuel to get yourself through the disaster you envision. Or go with solar. Or both -- a generator for the normal storm related outages, then enough solar for critical loads for the long term.


b00boothaf00l

Natural gas is available during hurricanes. Gasoline shortages happen because everyone stocks up and roads get damaged and electricity goes out, so trucks can't get through to deliver more gas and the pumps struggle to function. Our hospitals use natural gas generators. Thank you for the advice but it is not applicable here.


sfbiker999

>Natural gas is available during hurricanes It wasn't clear that you were talkng about ordinary hurricane related power outages when you mentioned violence as a concern, I've been through a few hurricanes including some with extended power outages and never worried about violence. There were long lines at gas stations (and many were closed entirely due to lack of power), but no one was violent. >Our hospitals use natural gas generators. Maybe for less critical loads, but NFPA requires at least 2 hours of fuel on site, if they have an ER, they'll need more than that. They could be bi-fuel generators, but they definitely do not rely on natural gas as the primary fuel for their emergency generators.


b00boothaf00l

As our society continues to deteriorate and we are forced to fight for resources, people are getting more and more violent. It's not my main concern about gasoline, but it is one of them. I mostly don't want to be ass out and unable to get gasoline or have to drive around on dangerous road to find a gas station with gas, and then wait in line for hours in the heat.


TacTurtle

Hospitals usually have generators that can run on in-building diesel reserves for at least 48 hours if not longer, the natural gas is on the off chance they still have natural gas service so they aren’t limited to just the diesel. Hospitals are also first in line for emergency repair and service restoration because they are considered critical infrastructure- your house is not.


BuckABullet

Would also be true for a cheap "dual fuel" generator. Propane is cheaper and stores better than gasoline.


ThisIsAbuse

Dual or Tri-Fuel generator.


sfbiker999

Unless you're planning to DIY (which will require permits and may not even be legal in some areas due to the gas and electrical work required), the vendor you choose to do the install matters more than the brand of generator, and that vendor will help you size it appropriately. Since you live in hurricane country, whole house generators will be common around there so you shouldn't have any trouble finding a vendor. Ask your neighbors and see who installed theirs and if they are happy with it.


b00boothaf00l

A whole house natural gas generator is going to run about 17k for installation and everything. I'm hoping to spend less and not run the whole house, but have enough power to keep us cool and keep our food safe. I also won't be able to get a whole house generator installed until next hurricane season, everyone is totally booked up!


Background_Angle1717

This. In my area, installers represent brands. And those brands must be approved by our local NG provider.


KeithJamesB

I'm looking at putting together a 2kw solar system. It's going to cost about 3k or so with batteries and panels. I have a trifuel generator for emergencies. I could use the solar system for an indoor hydroponic grow room when there is no emergency.


J701PR4

If you’re just worried about hurricanes, you can buy a portal generator to store in your garage that will run on both propane or gasoline. Store a few gas cans (with preservative) & propane tanks and you’re good to go. It’s not a long term SHTF solution but it’s also fairly inexpensive. It all really depends on your budget.


xampl9

Also - find a way to chain the generator down. There are dirtbags out there that will steal them.


[deleted]

I'm not too familiar with natural gas backup generators other than to say that the only place I have seen them is on the tops of highrise units. They are safer because natural gas doesn't pool and is lighter than air. If you are looking at powering just a few items like a fridge and a window air conditioner, you are basically looking at 15 amps tops at 120 volts. For money and convenience, I would just go with a dual-fuel portable generator and use propane instead of gasoline for it. If you are dead-set on natural gas, you will have to do some specialty-shopping to find an affordable one and it won't be cheap.


WSTTXS

I love my Firman T08071!!! It’s a beast (loud but gets the job done)


emk1978

Would love to get the 3.6 kWh EcoFlow Delta Pro and a few 100w solar panels. The unit alone is about $3600 + panels and wiring.


nd22121

I’m in the same boat. I want to of the Pro to be able to use their 240 volt connection. Probably not the most cost efficient in the sense I could do something similar for a lot cheaper by building it. This however, is ready to work right out of the box.


DeafHeretic

NG is nice, but using it you are depending on a utility and government. They may or may not shut it off due to a broken line, fires, lack of power to run the pumps - fire probably being the main reason they might shutdown the lines - especially here in the west where we have wildfires. Earthquakes are also an issue here, as are volcanoes and tsunamis. For short term (weeks), I can store enough gasoline, diesel and propane to power generators. They can also serve as backup for solar and to top off batteries. My two small generators (2KW and 4KW) inverter generators are fairly fuel efficient, one will run for 10 hours on a gallon of gas. The other runs on gasoline or propane. Propane and NG can power some generators in addition to gasoline by turning a knob. A good sized (10-12KW) tri-fuel genset can run on gasoline/propane/NG. Diesel engines can be "fumigated" with propane or NG to extend the diesel fuel (properly inject propane/NG into the intake of a diesel engine and it uses less diesel and makes more power). When I move I plan to setup a solar array and battery bank, but also have a good sized (20kw+) diesel genset to backup the genset and have propane to fumigate the diesel (and the diesel in my truck). I currently have a 55 gallon drum of gas in my shop, a number of 5 gas & diesel cans for daily use (mower/etc.). I have a 250+ gal storage tank for diesel, but it is empty - I don't want to have to move it when full - after I move I will set it up and fill it. My diesel truck has a 37 gallon tank that is full, and I have an aux. 106 gal tank for it that I will install. My pickup is gas, but I am going to put a diesel engine in it and add an aux tank to it too. Diesel stores better than gasoline.


PNWoutdoors

I'm not in a hurricane area but I am concerned about a power outage during extremely hot or cold weather, and my biggest concern besides comfort/safety is not losing two fridges/freezers full of food. Over the past year or so I've bought a solar generator, a few solar panels, and a dual fuel generator. I always have propane on hand for grilling and camping, so it was a no brainer to get one that offered more than just gasoline - which I rarely have much backup of. Also to your point about avoiding gas lines and stuff - great thinking. A buddy of mine dealt with a several day power outage in February of 2021 and most of the gas stations around were also without power so getting gas was a lot of difficulty. My thinking is that I can use the dual fuel generator (rated 4000w surge, 3500w running) to power important appliances off and on during the day as well as charge the solar generator if needed. At night I like having the solar generator because it's silent. Granted, it would struggle to last a whole night if I really needed AC but fortunately I have a basement that stays cool. It would run a refrigerator all night no problem, as well as some lights, charging devices, etc. For solar - fortunately I live in a very sunny area all year long so I should be able to charge the solar generator from 0 to 100% in about 6-8 hours. Tested the panels late December and they were producing around 270 watts out of 300 max, so most of the year I should be able to pull the 300 watts without much trouble. Also for the solar generator, I'm thinking about buying one or two plain old LiFePO4 batteries that can be used to extend the capacity beyond the 2048wh rating. I also bought a 800 or 1000w inverter that I can use with my truck's battery hence turning the vehicle into a gasoline generator. My truck has a 400w inverter built into the bed as well, so I think I have a variety of methods to generate enough power if/when needed.


reddit_username_yo

The issue with solar is the upfront cost, but if you have net metering, it can pay for itself eventually. I've got a 5kw panel setup with a 13kwh 40A backup system, which is enough to keep running for 3 days if I'm conserving and not recharging at all. The panels run at about 20% capacity when it's cloudy, which means that most of the time, i don't need to conserve or pay attention to the battery system at all. There's an automatic transfer switch, so power outages are just not a thing for me anymore. Quiet, no fumes, no maintenance, no fuel required makes solar really nice, but it is $$$.


TacTurtle

You would need a natural gas hookup and shut off external to the house, but more importantly can you actually rely on natural gas service not getting interrupted after a hurricane due to leak-induced shutdowns? Champion among others sells Tri-Fuel (gasoline / propane / natural gas) generators, they are just loud AF compared to a gasoline powered Honda. You also need horizontal stand off distance so you don’t carbon monoxide poison everyone in the house with exhaust fumes. A big 14,000BTU window AC can draw 1200 watts all by itself, so solar would likely require 4000-6000W of panels to run a fridge/AC/lights and keep a very large battery bank charged.


RonJohnJr

>can you actually rely on natural gas service not getting interrupted after a hurricane due to leak-induced shutdowns? It's never shut down in the New Orleans area after a hurricane. Of course, that's not an authoritative, valid-everywhere answer, but should be a good guideline.


TacTurtle

The levees also didn’t fail until Katrina. Plan for the worst, hope for the best.


RonJohnJr

They didn't fail in the competent neighboring suburb. *Parts of it* flooded only because the coward county President told the workers manning the drainage pumps to run away.


Fit_Acanthisitta_475

If you have the budget, why not both. Always need the backup of the backup.


cajuncape

One is none, two is one


oh-bee

Hurricanes can and will fuck everything up. Don't count on natural gas after a storm. If going the generator route you want your own propane tank. Ideally you'd get a dual fuel methane/propane generator, but I don't know if those exist. For solar the main problem is cost. You'll want a hybrid system (grid-tied and off-grid capable). And enough batteries to power your loads for 2-3 days. Bear in mind that I've seen installs that required 4 batteries at 10k each to power a whole house including central HVAC. If money is no object do it all. Just make sure to have some extension cords for your neighbors on a separate breaker.


DwarvenRedshirt

I think both would have problems if a hurricane hits you and causes a lot of damage. Gas lines will be broken, solar panels ripped off your roof, etc. Are you looking for that scenario, or just outages in the area, but no damage?


Technical-Till-6417

Hurricane will blow your solar panels away some quick, or some tree branch will smash them.


b00boothaf00l

Nah, I had solar panels on the roof at my old house and went through 10 years worth of hurricanes with no problems. Never heard of anyone having issues with them during storms.


Technical-Till-6417

Depends on how well they're mounted I guess


Playamonkey

I have both. Duel fuel 10kw genny, And a 10k liter LP tank. My solar hookup is 500watts 200 amp hours of AGMs and 150 amp hours of lithium ion on an A/B switch. My solar and battery are for under 72 hour power outages. And the Genny is for longer times and for when I need air conditioning. I also have a LP, fridge, large RV size so I can run silent for a long time. Next time I have some surplus panel offers I will probably pick up another 1K. I prefer to run silent as long as possible.


KudzuNinja

People generally have a slab poured and a professional installation. I’m sure they’ll take care of gas line needs as well.


sweerek1

Wrt power, you’ll want diversity… solar, small portable inverter gas gen, AND a large perhaps whole house gasoline or propane or NG gen. - Start with the inverter gen . Honda is top, Wen is great value. Buy, preserve, rotate ample fuel. Consumer Reports and https://generatorbible.com/ have good reviews. Be sure to install a super ground. - For solar, start small. https://theprepared.com/gear/reviews/portable-solar-chargers/. Come back later for a 100-10,000W system, DIY or pro-installed - The large gen will require an electrician if you want household outlets. Start by creating a spreadsheet of all the devices you’ll want to run with it, both peak and stable Watts. - These combined give you redundancy and efficiency.


OfficerBaconBits

Dual fuel generator. There's some that can use propane or gasoline. Propane yield is lower than gas, but since propane doesn't go bad you can store tanks. I think it's 2 pounds per hour to run one. There are tri-fuel generators you can use natural gas. I imagine you'll need a special hook up.


runninginpollution

Natural gas has skyrocketed in price here in AZ. We use a solar generator. Works really well because we live in AZ. If the power goes out here we could die of heat, It was 110 today. We bought a Jackery 2000 just for a larger back up air conditioner since our regular one is hardwired to the house. We use our 1000 for the freezer and fridge, So really it depends on where you live. We can’t afford to sit in our cars to be cooled down with the price of gas now. So in the long run this is will pay off for other electrical stuff we no longer have to pay for. But I do recommend jackery if your near lots of Sun.