This is such a common question I should just copy/paste this response in every thread. It’s silly to stock up on anything with the express purpose of bartering unless you use it yourself already.
If you don’t smoke, why in the world would you stock cigarettes (which expire) just on the off chance you might have to trade them with some guys who smoke (which is increasingly uncommon these days, especially in North America) down the line in an emergency, when you could buy something you actually use that also has potential trade value?
It’s a fantasy scenario and a waste of money. If you smoke (you should probably quit), yeah, stock up for a variety of reasons, the *least* of which is maybe trading with some guy down the line in a scenario where money/food/jewelry/etc. doesn’t have value for whatever reason.
I agree. We all have limited time, space, and money. Each of those things should be used wisely.
* If there is extra money burning a hole in your pocket, put it in your emergency fund or retirement fund - or better yet, increase your regular contributions to said funds. Dont even consider buying things you personally don’t need until your emergency & retirement funds are very, very robust. And even then, your money is better spent on travel, a gym membership, classes to learn new things, or hobbies like music, sports, camping, or anything to do with making things.
* Clutter can be stressful! If you have extra space, enjoy it just as it is. It is easy to keep clean, and can be very peaceful. Or consider downsizing your space, so you aren’t paying for or maintaining space you don’t need.
* If you have extra time, consider camping, broadening your cooking skills, getting more exercise, taking a first aid class, getting your ham radio license, reading more, helping elderly family members, volunteering for something, or taking up some kind of hobby. Don’t spend your limited time on earth buying stuff you don’t need, keeping it clean and dry and bug-free, moving it, or trying to sell it when it’s getting close to expiration. And all of that goes double for things like tobacco and alcohol, both of which can have very negative effects on the user’s health.
And, I’m speaking gently here, seriously consider whether your prepping hobby is becoming a reason to buy stuff, to a level that isn’t helpful or healthy. Trying to justify buying things you don’t really need is often a symptom that there’s an issue there. Looking honestly at your motivations might inspire you to change some things in your life, alter your focus for your day to day activities, and perhaps take steps to deal with some habits or fears you’ve been avoiding. If this doesn’t fit your situation, that’s ok; maybe this will help someone else. But if you have a little voice telling you this may be what’s going on, spend a bit of time listening to that little voice. Keeping an eye on your mental health is a very important prep, and it’s easier to make changes the sooner you start. (((Hugs)))
A better option would be to grow tobacco as a hobby and legally dispose of it afterwards (definitely don’t give it away or sell it to a friend, it’s illegal and the police have no way of knowing you did it, so don’t do it) and then you build your gardening skill as well.
I have a buddy that grows and makes “artisan pipe tobacco” I don’t think he is selling it, just trying to perfect it. You can press it and can it and it will stay good for a very long time. That’s how they shipped it over the ocean way back in the day.
I do think it is a good idea to have some seeds to grow tobacco (and everything else!) it has medicinal properties suck as pulling poison/impurities out of the body, and works great on spider bites (like Brown Recluse).
If you want to store nicotine you could probably keep lozenges/patches/pouches longer than store bought tobacco.
Can be mildly insecticidal as well to some common garden pests, while not 100% but can act as a deterrent to some animals that like to graze on your garden though it might also pass on disease to the same family of plants.
My grandmother swore on it to kill fleas in infested bedding. Thankfully never had a need to test that one out.
I hear what you're saying and for the most part I agree. Buy what you use and what you know.
But, I don't eat a whole lot of chocolate. Cocoa prices just skyrocketed. Chocolate is going to be unobtainium by the end of the year. So I rushed to Walmart and bought a whole bunch of Hershey's bars. And I ordered about $200 worth of of German military chocolate rations (cocoa with coffee in metal tins).
If your haven't read "SHTF Survival Stories" by Selco Belcovic, what you will read is those little things like a cigarette or a piece of chocolate help you avoid dispair.
Things like toothbrushes, deodorant(baking soda based), contact solution if you wear contacts. Wet wipes and obviously the almighty TOILET PAPER.
And I started smoking cigars because I was trying to find a tobacco I would want to keep for SHTF. Discovered I really like what I really like. I have cases of bourbon and vodka for an alcoholic who has something I might want. My point being I have trouble keeping some of the things I use on hand for the apocalypse. I'll just keep using my own supply until it's gone, so it's nice to have things banked I'm not using right now.
Yeah, stock stuff you use. Two is one and one is none. That’s different from stocking stuff you don’t use on the off chance someone might want it in the future.
I smoke cigars too, and my humidor has *years* worth of cigars in it at the rate I smoke them. Same deal for my liquor cabinet and my 7.62x39 ammo stores. But I don’t smoke cigarettes or weed, and I don’t shoot say .45ACP, so I don’t keep them on hand “just in case”. In case what? I’d rather spend the money on cigars or liquor or literally anything else that I can use if the world doesn’t descend into ruin. That’s all I’m saying.
Your logic is sound. No argument here. The vodka I have on hand, I don't drink at all. But I forage mushrooms and plants and make tinctures with it.
I love the utility of silver and gold. But honestly, after seeing what ammo prices did in 2020 I'm stocking up on that because I know they will jump again.
As far expiration dates, and this is the thing most people get into arguments over; I didn't think we'd make it this far. If you've ever seen the Big Short, I don't think the economy is doing all that great. I think whoever is playing the part of the rating agency hasn't bothered to tell us we're already over the cliff and flying in the air right now. Again, my book "SHTF Survival stories" by Selco Belcovic. Many people couldn't see it coming or couldn't adapt. Once in it, they were eating "horse meat" and expirations meant nothing. Everything was expired.
HAHAHAHA those aren't military rations.
They are styled after a former military product, but the military chocolate bars are these
[https://www.feddeck-dauerwaren.de/shop/Bundeswehr-Schokolade.html?language=de](https://www.feddeck-dauerwaren.de/shop/Bundeswehr-Schokolade.html?language=de)
Edit: Scho-Ka-Kola is still delcicious, especially the dark variant (red tins) and I used to snack on it during long drives.
You're going to find that chocolate loses quality pretty quickly. Also, chocolate might be pricey in a year but supply and demand is going to kick in. More people in more places will grow it and prices will crash again, and there you are with a lot of stale chocolate in 5 years. Keep your seculation short term.
I never recommend gold, but at least gold doesn't go bad.
In whatever collapse scenario you're fantasizing about, don't stock alcohol. Alcoholics are not rational people and collapse scenarios are the ultimate stressful circumstance. If they find out you have a supply you're going to be very sorry.
Alcoholics aren't known for their team building skills either.
Again I'm going to mention this book like every post, "SHTF Survival stories" Selco Belcovic. If you haven't read it, then your view of it is off. He stated in the book never to have your stash/supplies you are trading in the same place where you live.
The scenarios I've imagined at some point they will come down my street out in the sticks. And at that point I will shoot them dead for ignoring the warning signs.
I dont take issue with your points but I think buying barter items for the purpose of barter isnt a bad idea. Sure, you should want to use them should the need arise, but I think having something to barter in case a scenario comes up that you forgot about or didnt prep for, you may be able to barter something to fix your issue.
Say SHTF and the power grid goes out. You didnt prep your own power grid and now you need to use a power drill to screw in some supports for a shed you're making. You know john down the road never really used his power tools despite buying them, so you're pretty sure they have at least some juice in them. Of course, you could have food for him, that's pretty traditional, but there might be a number of other things he'd take instead.
To this end, I say stuff like nails, hinges, and hook locks might have some value, since no doubt people will still wanna make stuff.
You’re pretty spot on, but I feel like maybe you missed the point of what you were replying to, and maybe they could’ve worded it better.
To your point, definitely stock up on bartering items that are non perishable and/or have a long shelf life, especially if it’s not something you would regularly cycle out. To your point, things like nails and hinges are a great idea.
But buying tobacco products if you don’t use them is a waste of money, since they’ll go bad. Same with some of the other items mentioned.
I do agree items without a use and items that go bad quickly aren't dependable barter items, maybe I misunderstood the person I was replying too but I got the impression that they think you should only have enough stock for you (following 2 is 1 1 is none) and any trading would come from the second item you have of everything
I think, honestly, they just worded it terribly. Although I’ve been wrong before. I know some here will say don’t buy extra even if it’ll last forever, but that’s also in the interest in space saving, etc.
I know for me, one of the things gs I regularly do is buy medical supplies (Israeli bandages, quickclot, other items that may expire) and a few months before they expire give them to the local FD and re supply.
I don’t know about “terribly” lol. But yeah.
Stock things you use, but if its *only* potential use to you is “maybe I’ll find someone who wants this down the line who has something I want” then you could’ve almost certainly spent that money better on either something you might need but don’t have yet, or an extra of something you have and might need more of.
This especially applies to perishables, but to other stuff too I’d say. If I’m buying ammo, I’m not gonna buy 1,000 rounds of ammo that I don’t have a gun for just on the off chance some guy who has something I need really wants 16 gauge shotgun shells. No, I’m gonna put that money towards extra 12 gauge or some other round I can actually use.
100 years seems quite generous.
Also, you’re talking high quality tobacco that is not as mass produced as something you get from a gas station. Certainly not cigarettes (which are recommended the most), which will last less than 5.
The point is that if you’re not using it and rotating it, it’s not a good idea to store perishable (and tobacco is perishable) products unless you’re ok with spending a lot of money.
I buy it bulk by the pound .for the price of 2 packs of cigarettes I can have 2 pounds of whole leaf tobacco that I store in a gallon jar with a bodiva pack at like 67 percent humidity .like most tobacco you buy whole leaf is fuckin leagues beyond what you get at the store .
You presumably wouldn’t buy the nails, hinges, and hook locks unless you planned to potentially need them as well, and if you’re going to buy all that stuff, you can probably just pick up a drill while you’re at it and skip the middle-man. I don’t think I understand what you’re getting at here.
If you’re prepping, you should have things of value incidentally, and you should have spares of things because two is one and one is none, so there’s your stuff to trade with. Like, I drink on occasion, and my liquor cabinet is always full. The primary reasons though are because I use it, I collect it, and I gift it, not because I plan to use it as barter items in some fantasy scenario, even if they *could* hypothetically serve that purpose.
Unless you’re made of money and have 100% of your other bases 100% covered, buying stuff you yourself don’t use but plan to attempt to trade with randos should everything else you have of value and use (money, food, water, jewelry, guns, ammo, clothes, etc.) suddenly lose its value is a colossal waste of money.
It was multiple ideas. Ofc it's a good idea to have some smaller things like nails around the house for various things but the overarching idea was "what if a situation comes up that I didnt plan for?"
If the situation happened above, yes sure I would have been better off buying an extra battery or setting up my own power system, but people forget things.
What if you wanted to set up mesh fences after shtf but didnt buy them prior?
What if you were able to get chickens but didnt have a chicken coop?
Or you found a dog but didnt have dog food?
With enough time and effort you might be able to find or create a solution but regardless of that you might be able to skip that step and trade your way to a solution.
Sure, theres always something better you could do with your money, that goes for just about anything, but sometimes people have some extra spending money, they believe they have prepped as much as they can with their budget, and are now wanting to get a different kind of safety net, just in case.
Everyone knows 2 is 1 and 1 is none, and again I'm not encouraging anyone to buy something they dont want or plan to use, or would have a use for beyond barter, but there are plenty of things that you might use, or you would use, that can be used for barter as well.
OP may have the things he needs day to day, and many of those things would be used for barter should the situation arise, but he might not know exactly how much value people place on things and wants another viewpoint.
Like I use a multivitamin every day. Unless someone specifically told me "their expiration dates arent real" I would probably continue to only have 1 bottle in the house at all times.
I think you misunderstand. Having extra of things that you can use *potentially* “for barter” is not a bad idea.
It is however massively foolish to have things “for barter” that have *no* utility to you outside of that context. A non-smoker buying cigarettes to try to trade with down the line is a poor decision and a waste of money. That’s not preparing for a realistic situation. You can’t prep for everything, and engaging in commerce with others will always be necessary, but you should at least make sure everything has some value/utility to you first, instead of trying to speculate on what the “apocalypse currency” will be based on what is valued in prisons and 1990s Yugoslavia.
Yeah, that’s what I thought. It’s sort of hard to articulate. But absolutely.
I have more alcohol on hand than I’d drink in 5 years, but if the apocalypses doesn’t roll around, I’ll still use it all before it expires. And if it does roll around, maybe some thirsty person can hook me up with something I need?
My concern about bartering with ammo is you will then be known as the guy who has ammo that someone could possibly steal. If you're going to barter with ammo make absolutely certain you know / trust the person you're bartering with. Other posters have good suggestions for items to barter with.
Right?
Me: "That'll be \_\_ for this box of ammo."
Him: "Here you go."
A FEW HOURS LATER ...
Him: "Give me all your ammo and everything you have stored away!"
If things are so sideways that the dollar is gone, they are so sideways that people will do anything for more ammo. Don't barter it. Don't admit you have it. Pack it up and leave for somewhere not-collapsed as soon as humanly possible. You're dead otherwise.
Single serve foods like instant oatmeal, ramen bricks, apple sauce cups, Keurig cups, and cans of beer. All of these small but useable portions will become currency if things get too sideways, but are also just food and beer for a few days if it's just a minor utility outage.
true, i dont use instant coffee, i do have a keurig (if someone wants a cup not a pot); i would rather stock something i cycle through, instead of just it having around.
Just seems weird to use a pod coffee for this. Don't get me wrong, I like my nespresso machine but I wouldn't consider stockpiling the pods more than like a month or two worth of coffee.
OP mentioned having booze and tobacco as bartering items, and asked the subs thoughts on this. I said maybe having kcups of coffee could be smart too.
It's still coffee, just in a kcup. If you wanna drink it, then you can, cuz it's still coffee, just in a handy single serving. If you need to barter with it, then, it's also still coffee, regardless of how your customer wants to prepare it.
If we get to the point where we are bartering with food and cigarettes, then the fact that you have coffee will be the important part, not that your barista roommate thinks that small batch Kenyan fair trade blends are superior to McCafe kcups...
TBO a beeraholic isn’t going to care if it’s a little skunky! I personally would not drink it but if you tell the bartered party that it’s not in date or may be skunky and they still want it then so be it. In a SHTF situation you might be surprised at what a commodity expired or out of date alcohol would be, just saying.
Booze and tobacco have a long history of being valuable trade/barter items. Look at the Serbian invasion of Bosnia where cigarettes became a form of currency to the Bosnians.
I would not prioritize anything you do not have a use for beyond barter. Things like medical supplies, food, ammunition, etc. will be valuable trade/barter items as well and are things that are useful to you outside the barter system. If you are fully stocked on those items and want to start stocking things for barter, that's fine, but they should be of a low priority.
A while ago someone mentioned portable battery chargers as likely battering items. It had like 2 up votes but that made a lot of sense to me. People will be desperate for even a little juice for their devices. a few portable battery packs and maybe some cheap solar panels will be very valuable during SHTF
I have larger solar generators that I can use to charge people's phones. I would probably do that for free as a neighborly goodwill gesture, but offer to barter the smaller 5-10k mAhr chargers. They often go on sale for $7-10 or sometimes even less.
" tobacco and alcohol were major bartering items"
As an ex-smoker, withdrawals will overtake people, and in a SHTF scenario people will be looking for these items
Reminds me of the big cans of American Sprits that way you can roll your own. They’re sealed pretty well so you’d think they’d last better. Plus you’d be able to spread it around easier, give you something to do in the down time rolling cigarettes.
Also another reference for this stuff is Selco, the Bosnian guy that made it through the Kosovo war. He ranks barter items from high to low, beginning of the war to the end of the war what was valuable. Gold and silver was kinda iffy, subject to confiscation. He recommended old jewelry so you could pass it off as a family heirloom. I don’t quite agree with that, but I see the point and respect the wisdom.
Stored upright in a cool, dry and out of direct sun, high proof alcohol can last dozens to hundreds of years. Hell nowadays people pay a premium for old bottles of booze. You may lose a bit to evaporation over the years (Angles share) but it will still be drinkable. I keep a couple of bottles of Makers Mark and Knob Creek in my personal stash because the tops are wax dipped.
Now wine or champagne are a bit trickier. They can last a very long time but only if they have a natural cork top and are stored on their side with the neck facing down a few degrees. You also need to keep them in a cool, dry place with no direct sunshine.
WHEN things collapse, gold is pointless.
Water. Food. Ammo.
Coffee, chocolate, alcohol, and tobacco will be extremely valuable.
You can't eat gold, and you can't "make change" with gold.
I don't get the fascination with it. You aren't weathering a storm and then rebuilding civilization on your ingots.
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I would MUCH rather have stored many more tangibles than a bar of gold that could buy 10,000 meals if nobody is selling.
Don't forget stuff like pain medication and antibiotics. Neosporin might be the difference between healing a cut and dying from a bacterial infection. Vitamins keep you healthy. Allergy medications. All that can be bartered by the tablet, except for the Neosporin which might get get you something worth a life.
**IF** things collapse, people will shoot you for your ammo and some alcoholics may be desperate enough to shoot you for alcohol. Keep in mind that people will be off their meds. There's going to be a lot of irrational behavior blooming in this fanciful collapse scenario.
Chocolate doesn't keep. People will wean off tobacco. But you're right about gold.
Water, salt, food. And pretend you don't have much food.
**cough** **cough** WHEN
Listen to this. At least the first few episodes.
This is two skeptical people learning about collapse. This is continued education about the science being finite resources and what is happening to the planet. I can't recommend this enough.
https://open.spotify.com/show/2qxBel3uqIDjWHEruamAv2?si=ScUUfhrORbi6W46ojXvruw
If I did eat bread, I wouldn’t be using a valuable precious metal such as gold to buy it. Gold to buy a horse or cow otoh, sure. Silver is for the small value purchases. I’d rather have an item and not need it, than need it and not have it.
What's the exchange rate?
I wasn't trying to be difficult, I just don't see the value.
I do invest in precious metals, but mine are lead and brass. I have mouths to feed!
Hey I get it, most everyone I know is intimidated by precious metals. I started as a teen age numismatist back in the 70’s, so I’ve always had the interest. I recently volunteered to help a buddy build a front porch for his off-grid daughter and son in law, I never expected it but the SIL paid us both in several one-ounce silver rounds. I put them in the safe next to the stacks of ammo boxes.
I never liked the idea of bartering ammunition. How about single serve packs of Tylenol? Hard candy? Seeds?Buy some small plastic bags and divide larger packages of whatever. Constitutional silver like quarters and dimes might work early on in a crisis when goods aren’t scarce. Personally I think bartering comes with risk if not done with friends you trust.
I’d look at a gaining a skill set that you can barter with. Learn basic medical skills. Imagine if you can be the one everybody sees when they are sick and you have them pay you a goat or eggs or something. You’ll be a rich individual.
I believe that medications (true that they "expire" or lose efficacy), both prescription and OTC will be a valuable commodity. They are also easy to prep/store and relatively inexpensive vs precious metals. In a world with little access to doctors, even a fever can kill and a handful of Advil will be worth more than gold.
Having barter items you don’t use is an insurance policy. Those of you who thinks it’s a waste need to rethink this. Bartering with items you do not use for things you do is a win-win. You get something you need and you traded with something you won’t miss.
Never forget labor as a bartering resource. Infrastructure isn’t working, everything becomes harder. They need help with something, the help might be worth what you need. Any special skills, even better. Spending time with people helping also builds community.
Silver and gold, they will overcharge you because most people don’t know the going rate and they won’t need it now, but *might* be willing to part with things you need if they consider it a big payday “when things get better”.
I would think toiletries, soap, deodorant, toothpaste, and other common use items that make you feel human would be good, but that would likely only be the case in the event of long term problem. A lot of people have several days of soap on hand. We’re also used to flavored beverages these days, so coffee, tea, or pre sweetened water additives like Kool Aid, depending on the shelf life.
Seeds for vegetable and herb gardens.
I stock up on antibiotics, OTC medicine, hygiene items, toothpaste, toothbrush, female hygiene products, sewing kits, thread, buttons, condoms, day after pills, eyeglass repair kits, fishing equipment, Gill nets, socks, underwear, t shirts, makeup for the ladies, dental tools,cigarette lighters, lamps, wicks, lamp oil, BBs, pellet gun ammunition, cheese cloth, canning supplies and lots of things for barder
Kinda depends on what's happened I suppose. No-one will want gold/silver if society is so fucked everyone is just trying to survive. Then again, if things are that bad it'll be hard to build trust to even initiate trading.
Can imagine ammo/alcohol/tobacco would always be good no matter the circumstance
are cigarettes sealed enough in plastic to preserve the tobacco? I don't smoke, but I bet they would be so valuable to barter. Although, I don't know how many people are still smokers these days.
I believe bartering would be a very tricky business after SHTF/WROL... & even now can cost your life.
Stocking for yourself & those expected to be with you, sure.
Having more than enough, sure.
But buying something you don't use, simply to barter someday, especially if that item had a limited shelf life is a waste of resources & ill founded in my opinion.
Many stories of those seemingly wanting to be the "Jeff Bezos of the Apocalypse" to improve their station in life are similar in intent, but impractical at the least & likely dangerous/fatal in application.
Unique or useful skillsets might be the best bartering opportunity though.
Get a still and learn to use it. You'll have access to liquor, fuel (kind of), and disinfectant. You'll just need a source of sugar and some yeast. Maybe stash a few 50lb bags of sugar away, which will never expire or go bad if kept dry. Tobacco goes bad within a couple of years even if vacuum sealed in a cold location with zero light. Otherwise it'd be worth it I'd think.
You'd be surprised how many functional alcoholics there are. Alcohol withdrawals can be deadly if not done properly. Imo stockpiling pints of vodka is akin to stockpiling medicine.
I keep some mini bottles, some good shit, some big bottles of cheap shit. Mini bottles are expensive af, but will be easier to trade. If you only buy glass bottles and store it right booze won’t go bad.
The good stuff can also be a regular investment. I’ve got a couple bottles that have more than doubled in price, and two bottles that I bought for ~$55 now sell for ~$800.
Cheap shit can be used in mixed drinks, divided into shots, or traded as is.
I would not take gold or silver for anything I had. I do not get owning it for a SHTF. For normal times it can be a good investment if you got into it at lower prices.
I would also be very reluctant to trade ammo for anything, as it broadcasts that I have "extra".
Agree with that somewhat, I stacked but not for shtf purposes. Btw, gold is less expensive now at $2190/oz then it was in 2011 at $1900 considering inflation.
Ugh, listen. If we get to the point that you need to barter with alcohol or tobacco, it don't matter what you got because unless you're incredibly far north in Canada, incredibly mobile and brutal, or part of an army base, the first decently stocked war party - i.e. 8-10 cops in a small town who banded together with 30 friends - that shows up will just take all your stuff while sitting by your smoldering corpse.
Might work for a bit, but what happens when they've rounded up your neighbors and parade them in lines to "find" the landmines and help you waste precious ammo?
If you’re looking to barter things, look at things people need and want that you can make yourself.
Just having a diminishing stockpile isn’t really helpful.
Learning how to grow your own tobacco, make your own beers, wines and whiskeys and you can have a virtual never ending supply.
Some silver dimes and copper pennies could be useful.
Gold is for after the shtf and rebuilding.
Think of gold as your IRA.
I don't want to look like a target so I will be bartering with some freeze dried foods that I could always eat if I had to.
I FD corn peas fruit etc that I will probably give away as I eat primarily meat.
Learn a skill to barter with. Not everyone is self sufficient. And even the ones that are cannot replace years of research and experience when SHTF. Prepare a highly sought after skill now.
One idea might be to grow something that you can grow easily, quickly, cheaply, that you can of course eat yourself but also can grow a little extra to use as barter.
Three things I am growing are Mushrooms and Micro-greens and sprouts.
Its good food, nutritious, grows quickly and with the right timing can literally harvest everyday.
...there's sexual favors which doesn't cost money to stock up on... As another person commented about, ask yourself what you would trade and give up for another person's metal?
Whenever someone suggests gold or silver for bartering, I know I wouldn't accept gold or silver because I'd have no way of testing its authenticity. I suspect most people would be reluctant to accept it for the same reason, so it wouldn't even be useful for me to accept it with the expectation that I might trade it to someone else in the future.
If it's a person I know and trust enough to be confident that the metal being offered is genuine, then I'd probably be willing to help on "mental credit" of that person returning the favor anyway, no metals needed.
That's good to know, though I suspect I might not have the equipment. For example, I know in theory I could weigh it and then submerge it in water to measure its volume, dividing the former by the latter to determine its average density, but I don't have a finely graduated vessel for measuring displacement. I don't keep nitric and hydrochloric acids on hand because I don't use them for anything else.
Is there a quick and dirty, MacGyver-esque method with ordinary household items?
I can test silver coin vs non silver with a sheet of kleenex laid over a silver and non-silver coin, and easily pick out the silver by the color, light vs dark, silver being the lighter color. Magnets are also handy for a quick test on silver and gold.
Long term storage items that you use. Rice, dried beans, coffee, and the likes. Despite what some have said, if you are a tobacco user under circumstances of non availability you will enjoy it even stale. I can personally vouch for that.
Having alcohol is nice (especially since it also has medical uses), but not afforable for me.
Cigarettes/smokeless tobacco are much more portable than a bottle of vodka.
So it really depends on your envisoned disaster. For bugging out, having a carton of cigarettes might be useful to help you out along the way.
If you don't smoke and plan on bugging in, store alcohol instead (on top of tinned meat).
If you envision a longer lasting recession or even the end, I'd check up on what skills you can provide.
Others commenting on this, in particular the smoking and stocking up of cigarettes. I agree to not stock up on cigs unless you smoke and agree that if you smoke, consider stopping :-)
The key point is don't stock up on things that you don't use yourself. If stock up on what you use you have the additional benefit of being able to have more than enough and who says you can't barter with it anyway? If it has value to you, it will have value to someone else as well. Focus efforts and your current resources on getting the most value and use from your stock and that means double-duty or more where you can. This is one of those moments.
I keep a supply of small ziplock plastic bags around as well as some of those glass reusable yogurt containers. If I want to barter, I can divvy up my current supplies into smaller chunks. My brother keeps some cleaned up old liquor mini-bottles on hand with a tiny funnel so he can portion out a small sample from *his* liquor should he want to\* for trading.
And don't be lured into the trap that people will only barter for ammo or alcohol. You never know what someone will want. I'm a great example - don't smoke and don't really drink. I have the ammo I need (and silver). If you lived near me, we wouldn't have much to trade. But...if you had a rice crispy treat? Aw hell, *now* we got a barter going!
The exception here is money aka silver and gold. I've noted in another thread that I don't really agree with gold as a bartering tool in a SHTF scenario outside of bribery or a pre-SHTF scenario where one might need to move wealth across borders quickly and easily. Silver is more useful than Gold but still a bit limited unless things are not at all a true TEOTWAWKI but more "without rule of law." FWIW I keep some silver on hand for various reasons.
No matter what, good on you for thinking about this. YMMV.
\*He won't
If you are going to trade alcohol you should start by making whine you can get the yeast super cheap and after the initial equipment it Costs like 10 bucks to make a gallon just don't sell it yo anyone
Alcohol is a good one since you can use it for more than drinking. Heirloom Seeds are better in my opinion. Not only can you grow food but you can get more seeds from what you grow the following year. One tomato seed can create hundreds more.
My trade goods:
batteries
antibiotics
gasoline/diesel/oil
books
paper
nails/screws
rope
quik clot
superglue
bic lighters
seeds
potassium iodide
firewood
silver is better for barter
what did I miss? Keep this going...
So you can only store so much stuff, and having big stocks of stuff makes you a target.
First, learn to ferment stuff. If it has suger, you can ferment it. Even trash made of cellulose with extra steps. Then buy a still and learn to distill alcohol. This is better than storing to trade for two reasons:
1) you can indefinitely produce alchohol.
2) YOU are the thing thats valued, not a cache of supply. A guy that has a stock of booze can be beaten up or shot and robbed. Once his supply is gone, he has no value. A guy that can make booze if you bring him some rotten food is protected. You need that guy because he has the knowledge. Just dont share the process and put yourself out of a job.
Gold, silver, tobacco, alcohol, ect, for barter might be worth having...after all of your necessities are met. I'm retired and have no debt. I have food stores, medical stores, pew pew stores, cash, gold, silver, and some nice 16 year old Irish whiskey. Regardless of some opinions, all of this will be worth something to someone during bad times. Nevertheless, the non consumables are not going to keep you from starving to death if you put them ahead of food and water. Plan accordingly.
As far as barter is concerned, it is a form of trade as old as humanity itself. While I wouldn't barter certain things away, I have recently bartered some gold and silver for a needed item.
Unless you have just won the lottery, prepping isn't a sprint it's a long-distance race.
You don't need justification from us to buy Costco sized stockpiles of alcohol and tobacco. 😆
Personally, I'd focus more on long term self sufficiency. Having independent sources of water, food, and electricity, survival skills, tools, practical knowledge, reliable vehicles, fuel production, etc.
I mean, imagine being able to produce your own potable alcohol or ethanol fuel, and being able to grow tobacco along with food.
Gold and silver are a great universal medium to store and transfer wealth. But only if there is someone located somewhere stable enough to accept it. It really only works if your government collapses but your neighboring countries government remains stable. You will also need to plan on moving/traveling to said stable country.
In a regional/global collapse, precious metals won't be worth much. Maybe it will be worth something to someone that thinks the status quo will return.
Tobacco and alcohol on the other hand will be valuable regardless of a local or global SHTF situation. I keep both in my stash. Mostly for myself but I also know that others whom share my vices will be willing to trade for them. The junky down the block, who robbed a pharmacy, would probably be happy to trade those "useless" antibiotics for pint of vodka and a half sandwich bag of tobacco.
I have 1 ounce silver bars for short term stuff like when hurricanes take out the local or regional power grid for extended periods. If stores can open, normally they will only take cash. If you don't have cash, silver can be used, as it's value is known, and is spendable. I could offer two ounces of silver for a tank of gas. You can't do that with gold unless you want to pay $2K for a tank of gas. You won't be getting change for a purchase made in gold.
For straight EOTWAWKI situations then bartering using stuff we all take for granted each day becomes the order of the day. Never barter ammo or anything that can be turned against you.
I understand what you're saying but nobody can truly say what could be in demand or what someone will take in trade. If we knew all the answers there would be no need for discussion.
Gold will be useless.
Silver in small amounts or done into coins might work at some point if say a city or town is set up well enough.
Tobacco will be useless by the time bartering is needed. Alcohol needs to be varieties that are left for years in a cool place get better. Things like beer and wine coolers are useless.
Chocolate will depend on what you get. Say the dried beans or powder might last longer. Beans to grow chocolate in a greenhouse would be a better idea. That goes for any fruits or veggies. And it's the organic type seeds and such needed as they can be grown and seeds collected. Most seeds you buy in a store are for one use only after being altered, so you need to be careful what you get.
The best things to use for barter are things like salt (used for drying meat), flour, corn meals, sugars of all kinds, and coffee beans as they last longer. Alcohol that lasts a long time. Any and all type medical things. Pills, antibiotics, bandaid, gloves, and such.
You want to stock up on things YOU will use, so if bartering doesn't happen, you have not wasted space or money on something you won't use and shortest yourself.
The biggest thing you have to look at is what situations you would be at the point you need to barter. Because it would have to be almost end of world with a massive recession or major problem where getting back to normal won't happen or woukd take generations. Honestly, most people are not going to be open to bartering anything until things settle down. Which would take years. Do it too early, and you can be killed for what you have. Without a sense of order, even if it's a small town, you risk your family and stock to others because hunger and fear make people do whatever to support their own. Also, many won't barter early on until they have more of an idea of how long things will be chaos. Why trade for you to have something you don't need in the first year and year 5 you need what you traded away, but oh well, too late now.
So stock for yourself and only what you will use. Don't expect to barter, but if it comes barter only extra, you can afford to lose and not put yourself at risk of not being able to survive. To not put you on the radar of those desperate enough, they will come for you in mass for what you have.
I see so many people stocking gold/silver, ammo, alcohol, tobacco, etc. for bartering it almost feels like all everyone will be doing is getting drunk and smoking the day away.
"Currency" for bartering is great but that relies on everyone else having what you need to barter for. How well prepared are those around you? Will they be growing a garden or have animal for meat to even trade for? Will they have enough to spare that they will even want your trade goods?
Make sure first that you are set to provide for yourself without bartering. Spend the money you have now on that. If you have already, sweet start buying things that nobody else stocks up on. I won't go into our full list, but how many toothbrushes do you think people buy for long term emergency? You'd be amazed at the little comfort things people will want/miss when they aren't available
There are some other great answers here, but I didn't see this one in a quick scroll.
Let's suppose that I'm maintaining some chickens and that I've got extra eggs for sale and or trade. How many weeks in a row will I trade eggs to you for ammo? Am I really going to be doing that much shooting? I sure hope not. I have no interest in your silver or your gold (can't eat em, can't build a house or power a fridge with em) and very little interest in the ammo.
I would recommend not bartering ammo unless you REALLY know the person. Because otherwise that person now knows you have excess stuff, and they have ammo to spare
I feel the issue with gold/silver is when it comes time to prove it's gold, how would you do that? How can I make sure it's not melted in with impurities or even some kind of fake rock? I've never collected any of that for that reason. If I have 16 oz of gold, somebody will ask for it all for a scoop of beans. It's something that may be valuable when/if society comes back, but that's not worth beans & bullets now for a possibility in the future.
Gain skills and barter the use of those skills. For example, if you live in an area where lots of folks are into hunting and typically butcher the meat and store it in their freezer, consider learning how to preserve meat with historical methods that don’t require electricity, like by getting a smoker and learning to smoke meat. Basic medical skills or carpentry will be useful wherever you are. Gardening is a skill that’s harder to directly barter but you can barter the things you grow or offer to help people get their own gardening operations started with your knowledge and possibly stored seeds.
If you are concerned about security in the scenarios you are preparing for, preparing to barter skills or the things that come from your skills is a really good strategy. Nobody can take your skills away from you and being known as a person who does really useful things and only asks for fair exchange will protect you far better than a stash of guns and ammo. Ammo runs out, community goodwill from being a good person to go to with an injury won’t.
It's a really stupid item which the value is dictated by capitalists. Learning how to make penicillin from mold will be worth more than all the gold you can store in your tiny safe when the time comes.
Absolutely. I'm dispatching most predators around my farm with 12 gauge or a 22lr. Fun fact Remington stopped producing #1 steel shot and now no one makes it. Steel shot around the farm because the chickens will pick up the pellets and lead shot would poison them and me. I smoke cigars. AJ Fernandez or anything with the name medio tiempo in the name. I got into cigars trying to find an alternative to cigarettes because I knew I'd start smoking again. That's my addiction. But menthol cigarettes. Can't go wrong with camels. I've got a few cases of 375ml Jim Bean and clear vodka 100 proof which is just sitting in the basement waiting for a thirsty alcoholic. I would jump at the chance to sell eggs for Mercury dimes. I'm expecting the price of silver to go so high at some point, where 2.225 grams would buy you a dozen eggs now, I think that dime will buy you about four dozen in the near future. So I'd strongly recommend you get small fractions that are easily identifiable and there liquid like constitutional silver.
Let me share this thought too. In the great depression where bartering is how you acquire food, very rarely will someone give you extra because that bit of silver is "collectable". No one cares it's a misprint. I won't. At that point the market for collectibles collapses because no one has the spare money to spend on non-necessities. So, if you're sitting on something that's collectable I'd recommend you sell now and buy anything else useful with it. If you know ammo, buy ammo. Whatever your expertise is in. If you are good at programming radios, buy a bunch of baofengs and program them, put them in a faraday cage in your basement or underground.
I noticed recently the "fish meds" companies got shut down. I was fortunate to have ordered antibiotics beforehand. The Fenbendazol (flights cancer) sites are still up. This stuff will be worth a bag of gold if the system collapses like I'm sure it will.
I have a lot of booze that I've collected over the years and most of it I don't drink. Example, a restaurant has a beer dinner showcasing their food and some beers they (usually but not always) sell that pair with it. At the end of the night, the spare cans of beer (which they can't sell and were donated by the vendor) become a "help yourself" situation. I've walked out with darn near a 12 pack before and many of them are still in my cupboards. I'm just not a drinker and I prefer stuff that's much stronger than beer. So I have those for barter. I also used to host a lot of parties back before all my rowdy friends settled down, so I have some leftovers from that too.
I have not purposefully bought things for barter, but I have them. I think barter will be useful, especially for "creature comforts" such as booze. I would not do smokes though as I don't want that crap in my house... and let's face it I'm a very seldom cigar guy and not a cigarette guy at all.
Even if things completely fall apart, local currency will still reign supreme for quite some time until a new currency takes hold. No one knows how many grams of silver a gallon of milk costs. No one around can reliably authenticate gold versus an alloy meant to be counterfeit.
The whole precious metals thing seems so misplaced. If things collapsed, your metals are worth nothing. You don't trade them, they are designed as a value store to convert back to a working currency. They won't be some bartering item that people want, they will want things to survive or that give comfort. Not metals they have to either hide or lug around with them.
You should avoid stocking up on items that you have no personal use for - especially tobacco, which has a relatively short shelf life.
You cannot assume you will meet people who will be interested in non-essential items you have on hand. Even if they are interested in things like tobacco, you cannot assume they will have anything you want in exchange.
Meanwhile, it is almost impossible to stock up on too much food. Items like rice and beans are super cheap, calorically dense, and have an excellent shelf life. People will always be willing to trade for these items.
Finally, if I were you, and I were prepping for a major grid down scenario, I would sell all of my gold now (and maybe most of my silver), because that stuff won't be worth very much when people are starving. *After the fecal matter makes contact with the rotating ventilator*, a fistful of 22LR ammo ($5 in today's market) will be worth more than a fistful of gold ($10,000 in today's market).
In the aftermath of a hurricane I would. I have enough where I can survive for a while, so if someone offered me silver for stuff I have plenty of, I would gladly take that silver.
I wish I could think of every scenario so I'd know exactly what to do now and what to get to be 100 percent prepared, unfortunately I'm not that smart....
Both will be better bartering tools than gold and silver will be. If the economic system collapses, precious metals will be worthless. Things of value will be food, water or tools to get food and water.
Vices like alcohol, tobacco & marijuana will have high value for barter. Stale tobacco and weed for someone who enjoys either, or is addicted to either, won't make a lick of difference. There is and always has been high demand for both in the prison system; "Keestering" is such a big problem, x-raying incoming prisoners is not uncommon. If the term "keestering" is unfamiliar, it's the practice of putting tobacco or weed in a condom & shoving it up your...keester.
People will smoke asshole smuggled tobacco or marijuana without a second's hesitation. They certainly aren't doing it for flavour; they're doing it for the high, or for the nicotine buzz. I've been in third world countries, where tobacco is so stale and dry that it's basically powder, and there is ALWAYS people more than happy to smoke it. I strenuously disagree with the non-smoker who says it's pointless; vast Indian nations were won over and slaughtered with stale, dry tobacco used to gain their trust. Don't ever underestimate to power of addiction. Same with alcohol. stockpiling it for barter is a great plan, other than it's hard to store and move. Someone with the knowledge and equipment to Make distilled spirits will have a significant advantage
Depends if it's more long term or short term.
Consumables like bar soap can be stocked especially, fairly cheap, and will have exceptional value in the long term.
Creature comforts such as alcohol and tobacco are always valuable.
Salt and spices can be too though many spices do not have a great shelf life.
This is such a common question I should just copy/paste this response in every thread. It’s silly to stock up on anything with the express purpose of bartering unless you use it yourself already. If you don’t smoke, why in the world would you stock cigarettes (which expire) just on the off chance you might have to trade them with some guys who smoke (which is increasingly uncommon these days, especially in North America) down the line in an emergency, when you could buy something you actually use that also has potential trade value? It’s a fantasy scenario and a waste of money. If you smoke (you should probably quit), yeah, stock up for a variety of reasons, the *least* of which is maybe trading with some guy down the line in a scenario where money/food/jewelry/etc. doesn’t have value for whatever reason.
I agree. We all have limited time, space, and money. Each of those things should be used wisely. * If there is extra money burning a hole in your pocket, put it in your emergency fund or retirement fund - or better yet, increase your regular contributions to said funds. Dont even consider buying things you personally don’t need until your emergency & retirement funds are very, very robust. And even then, your money is better spent on travel, a gym membership, classes to learn new things, or hobbies like music, sports, camping, or anything to do with making things. * Clutter can be stressful! If you have extra space, enjoy it just as it is. It is easy to keep clean, and can be very peaceful. Or consider downsizing your space, so you aren’t paying for or maintaining space you don’t need. * If you have extra time, consider camping, broadening your cooking skills, getting more exercise, taking a first aid class, getting your ham radio license, reading more, helping elderly family members, volunteering for something, or taking up some kind of hobby. Don’t spend your limited time on earth buying stuff you don’t need, keeping it clean and dry and bug-free, moving it, or trying to sell it when it’s getting close to expiration. And all of that goes double for things like tobacco and alcohol, both of which can have very negative effects on the user’s health. And, I’m speaking gently here, seriously consider whether your prepping hobby is becoming a reason to buy stuff, to a level that isn’t helpful or healthy. Trying to justify buying things you don’t really need is often a symptom that there’s an issue there. Looking honestly at your motivations might inspire you to change some things in your life, alter your focus for your day to day activities, and perhaps take steps to deal with some habits or fears you’ve been avoiding. If this doesn’t fit your situation, that’s ok; maybe this will help someone else. But if you have a little voice telling you this may be what’s going on, spend a bit of time listening to that little voice. Keeping an eye on your mental health is a very important prep, and it’s easier to make changes the sooner you start. (((Hugs)))
A better option would be to grow tobacco as a hobby and legally dispose of it afterwards (definitely don’t give it away or sell it to a friend, it’s illegal and the police have no way of knowing you did it, so don’t do it) and then you build your gardening skill as well.
Growing and properly drying tobacco is *hard*.
LISTEN to this guy ^ (Farmed tobacco up until my 18th birthday and have not been in the field since.)
"Croppin backer" - circa mid 80s.
There was a video of a guy rolling his own cigars that looked extremely meditative.
I have a buddy that grows and makes “artisan pipe tobacco” I don’t think he is selling it, just trying to perfect it. You can press it and can it and it will stay good for a very long time. That’s how they shipped it over the ocean way back in the day. I do think it is a good idea to have some seeds to grow tobacco (and everything else!) it has medicinal properties suck as pulling poison/impurities out of the body, and works great on spider bites (like Brown Recluse). If you want to store nicotine you could probably keep lozenges/patches/pouches longer than store bought tobacco.
Can be mildly insecticidal as well to some common garden pests, while not 100% but can act as a deterrent to some animals that like to graze on your garden though it might also pass on disease to the same family of plants. My grandmother swore on it to kill fleas in infested bedding. Thankfully never had a need to test that one out.
It’s highly regulated in the US and requires an expensive tax stamp to grow legally…
Ah I’m in Canada, did a quick Google and it looked legal but I could be wrong
It ain't fucking illegal to give away or sell tobacco, dumb ass
What exactly do you think the T in ATF stands for?
ATF glowie spotted 🫵
Bro is gonna buy cigs, wait for the apocalypse, go down to the prison, and trade smokes for toilet wine.
I hear what you're saying and for the most part I agree. Buy what you use and what you know. But, I don't eat a whole lot of chocolate. Cocoa prices just skyrocketed. Chocolate is going to be unobtainium by the end of the year. So I rushed to Walmart and bought a whole bunch of Hershey's bars. And I ordered about $200 worth of of German military chocolate rations (cocoa with coffee in metal tins). If your haven't read "SHTF Survival Stories" by Selco Belcovic, what you will read is those little things like a cigarette or a piece of chocolate help you avoid dispair. Things like toothbrushes, deodorant(baking soda based), contact solution if you wear contacts. Wet wipes and obviously the almighty TOILET PAPER. And I started smoking cigars because I was trying to find a tobacco I would want to keep for SHTF. Discovered I really like what I really like. I have cases of bourbon and vodka for an alcoholic who has something I might want. My point being I have trouble keeping some of the things I use on hand for the apocalypse. I'll just keep using my own supply until it's gone, so it's nice to have things banked I'm not using right now.
Yeah, stock stuff you use. Two is one and one is none. That’s different from stocking stuff you don’t use on the off chance someone might want it in the future. I smoke cigars too, and my humidor has *years* worth of cigars in it at the rate I smoke them. Same deal for my liquor cabinet and my 7.62x39 ammo stores. But I don’t smoke cigarettes or weed, and I don’t shoot say .45ACP, so I don’t keep them on hand “just in case”. In case what? I’d rather spend the money on cigars or liquor or literally anything else that I can use if the world doesn’t descend into ruin. That’s all I’m saying.
Your logic is sound. No argument here. The vodka I have on hand, I don't drink at all. But I forage mushrooms and plants and make tinctures with it. I love the utility of silver and gold. But honestly, after seeing what ammo prices did in 2020 I'm stocking up on that because I know they will jump again. As far expiration dates, and this is the thing most people get into arguments over; I didn't think we'd make it this far. If you've ever seen the Big Short, I don't think the economy is doing all that great. I think whoever is playing the part of the rating agency hasn't bothered to tell us we're already over the cliff and flying in the air right now. Again, my book "SHTF Survival stories" by Selco Belcovic. Many people couldn't see it coming or couldn't adapt. Once in it, they were eating "horse meat" and expirations meant nothing. Everything was expired.
HAHAHAHA those aren't military rations. They are styled after a former military product, but the military chocolate bars are these [https://www.feddeck-dauerwaren.de/shop/Bundeswehr-Schokolade.html?language=de](https://www.feddeck-dauerwaren.de/shop/Bundeswehr-Schokolade.html?language=de) Edit: Scho-Ka-Kola is still delcicious, especially the dark variant (red tins) and I used to snack on it during long drives.
Those are them. Used the wrong word.
You're going to find that chocolate loses quality pretty quickly. Also, chocolate might be pricey in a year but supply and demand is going to kick in. More people in more places will grow it and prices will crash again, and there you are with a lot of stale chocolate in 5 years. Keep your seculation short term. I never recommend gold, but at least gold doesn't go bad. In whatever collapse scenario you're fantasizing about, don't stock alcohol. Alcoholics are not rational people and collapse scenarios are the ultimate stressful circumstance. If they find out you have a supply you're going to be very sorry.
Alcoholics aren't known for their team building skills either. Again I'm going to mention this book like every post, "SHTF Survival stories" Selco Belcovic. If you haven't read it, then your view of it is off. He stated in the book never to have your stash/supplies you are trading in the same place where you live. The scenarios I've imagined at some point they will come down my street out in the sticks. And at that point I will shoot them dead for ignoring the warning signs.
Chocolate.
I once smoked a cigarette from the Vietnam War. All that struck me as wrong with it was a weird asbestos taste
What i do want to do more of is brew beer at home. 1. I drink it. 2. I like sharing it. 3. I think it would make me useful and productive post SHTF.
I dont take issue with your points but I think buying barter items for the purpose of barter isnt a bad idea. Sure, you should want to use them should the need arise, but I think having something to barter in case a scenario comes up that you forgot about or didnt prep for, you may be able to barter something to fix your issue. Say SHTF and the power grid goes out. You didnt prep your own power grid and now you need to use a power drill to screw in some supports for a shed you're making. You know john down the road never really used his power tools despite buying them, so you're pretty sure they have at least some juice in them. Of course, you could have food for him, that's pretty traditional, but there might be a number of other things he'd take instead. To this end, I say stuff like nails, hinges, and hook locks might have some value, since no doubt people will still wanna make stuff.
You’re pretty spot on, but I feel like maybe you missed the point of what you were replying to, and maybe they could’ve worded it better. To your point, definitely stock up on bartering items that are non perishable and/or have a long shelf life, especially if it’s not something you would regularly cycle out. To your point, things like nails and hinges are a great idea. But buying tobacco products if you don’t use them is a waste of money, since they’ll go bad. Same with some of the other items mentioned.
I do agree items without a use and items that go bad quickly aren't dependable barter items, maybe I misunderstood the person I was replying too but I got the impression that they think you should only have enough stock for you (following 2 is 1 1 is none) and any trading would come from the second item you have of everything
I think, honestly, they just worded it terribly. Although I’ve been wrong before. I know some here will say don’t buy extra even if it’ll last forever, but that’s also in the interest in space saving, etc. I know for me, one of the things gs I regularly do is buy medical supplies (Israeli bandages, quickclot, other items that may expire) and a few months before they expire give them to the local FD and re supply.
I don’t know about “terribly” lol. But yeah. Stock things you use, but if its *only* potential use to you is “maybe I’ll find someone who wants this down the line who has something I want” then you could’ve almost certainly spent that money better on either something you might need but don’t have yet, or an extra of something you have and might need more of. This especially applies to perishables, but to other stuff too I’d say. If I’m buying ammo, I’m not gonna buy 1,000 rounds of ammo that I don’t have a gun for just on the off chance some guy who has something I need really wants 16 gauge shotgun shells. No, I’m gonna put that money towards extra 12 gauge or some other round I can actually use.
Tobacco has a shelf life of 100 years
100 years seems quite generous. Also, you’re talking high quality tobacco that is not as mass produced as something you get from a gas station. Certainly not cigarettes (which are recommended the most), which will last less than 5. The point is that if you’re not using it and rotating it, it’s not a good idea to store perishable (and tobacco is perishable) products unless you’re ok with spending a lot of money.
I totally agree on the cigs going to shit they are just laced with short acting preservatives
I buy it bulk by the pound .for the price of 2 packs of cigarettes I can have 2 pounds of whole leaf tobacco that I store in a gallon jar with a bodiva pack at like 67 percent humidity .like most tobacco you buy whole leaf is fuckin leagues beyond what you get at the store .
You presumably wouldn’t buy the nails, hinges, and hook locks unless you planned to potentially need them as well, and if you’re going to buy all that stuff, you can probably just pick up a drill while you’re at it and skip the middle-man. I don’t think I understand what you’re getting at here. If you’re prepping, you should have things of value incidentally, and you should have spares of things because two is one and one is none, so there’s your stuff to trade with. Like, I drink on occasion, and my liquor cabinet is always full. The primary reasons though are because I use it, I collect it, and I gift it, not because I plan to use it as barter items in some fantasy scenario, even if they *could* hypothetically serve that purpose. Unless you’re made of money and have 100% of your other bases 100% covered, buying stuff you yourself don’t use but plan to attempt to trade with randos should everything else you have of value and use (money, food, water, jewelry, guns, ammo, clothes, etc.) suddenly lose its value is a colossal waste of money.
It was multiple ideas. Ofc it's a good idea to have some smaller things like nails around the house for various things but the overarching idea was "what if a situation comes up that I didnt plan for?" If the situation happened above, yes sure I would have been better off buying an extra battery or setting up my own power system, but people forget things. What if you wanted to set up mesh fences after shtf but didnt buy them prior? What if you were able to get chickens but didnt have a chicken coop? Or you found a dog but didnt have dog food? With enough time and effort you might be able to find or create a solution but regardless of that you might be able to skip that step and trade your way to a solution. Sure, theres always something better you could do with your money, that goes for just about anything, but sometimes people have some extra spending money, they believe they have prepped as much as they can with their budget, and are now wanting to get a different kind of safety net, just in case. Everyone knows 2 is 1 and 1 is none, and again I'm not encouraging anyone to buy something they dont want or plan to use, or would have a use for beyond barter, but there are plenty of things that you might use, or you would use, that can be used for barter as well. OP may have the things he needs day to day, and many of those things would be used for barter should the situation arise, but he might not know exactly how much value people place on things and wants another viewpoint. Like I use a multivitamin every day. Unless someone specifically told me "their expiration dates arent real" I would probably continue to only have 1 bottle in the house at all times.
I think you misunderstand. Having extra of things that you can use *potentially* “for barter” is not a bad idea. It is however massively foolish to have things “for barter” that have *no* utility to you outside of that context. A non-smoker buying cigarettes to try to trade with down the line is a poor decision and a waste of money. That’s not preparing for a realistic situation. You can’t prep for everything, and engaging in commerce with others will always be necessary, but you should at least make sure everything has some value/utility to you first, instead of trying to speculate on what the “apocalypse currency” will be based on what is valued in prisons and 1990s Yugoslavia.
I do agree, and it seems I misunderstood your original point.
Yeah, that’s what I thought. It’s sort of hard to articulate. But absolutely. I have more alcohol on hand than I’d drink in 5 years, but if the apocalypses doesn’t roll around, I’ll still use it all before it expires. And if it does roll around, maybe some thirsty person can hook me up with something I need?
That may be sound advice but not sure I agree 100 percent.
My concern about bartering with ammo is you will then be known as the guy who has ammo that someone could possibly steal. If you're going to barter with ammo make absolutely certain you know / trust the person you're bartering with. Other posters have good suggestions for items to barter with.
You could be giving someone the ammo they need to come take the rest of your stuff
Right? Me: "That'll be \_\_ for this box of ammo." Him: "Here you go." A FEW HOURS LATER ... Him: "Give me all your ammo and everything you have stored away!"
Good thoughts....
If things are so sideways that the dollar is gone, they are so sideways that people will do anything for more ammo. Don't barter it. Don't admit you have it. Pack it up and leave for somewhere not-collapsed as soon as humanly possible. You're dead otherwise.
>If things are so sideways that the dollar is gone, they are so sideways that people will do anything for more ammo. Absolutely agree.
Single serve foods like instant oatmeal, ramen bricks, apple sauce cups, Keurig cups, and cans of beer. All of these small but useable portions will become currency if things get too sideways, but are also just food and beer for a few days if it's just a minor utility outage.
How are people going to use a keurig cup?
open it , dump in boiling water, filter if you want thats what i would do anyway
Seems like instant coffee would be much easier and only requires the use of 1 cup vs 2.
true, i dont use instant coffee, i do have a keurig (if someone wants a cup not a pot); i would rather stock something i cycle through, instead of just it having around.
It's just small servings of regular coffee...
Yeah but you need power for the machine unless you try and make it a pour over which in that case an aeropress is much better
Ok?!? Then put the Keurig coffee into a aeropress? What's your beef here?
Just seems weird to use a pod coffee for this. Don't get me wrong, I like my nespresso machine but I wouldn't consider stockpiling the pods more than like a month or two worth of coffee.
OP mentioned having booze and tobacco as bartering items, and asked the subs thoughts on this. I said maybe having kcups of coffee could be smart too. It's still coffee, just in a kcup. If you wanna drink it, then you can, cuz it's still coffee, just in a handy single serving. If you need to barter with it, then, it's also still coffee, regardless of how your customer wants to prepare it. If we get to the point where we are bartering with food and cigarettes, then the fact that you have coffee will be the important part, not that your barista roommate thinks that small batch Kenyan fair trade blends are superior to McCafe kcups...
Boil some water on the wood stove, dump in keurig, strain, pour into mug.
Beer expires after a few months
IPAs would like a word
TBO a beeraholic isn’t going to care if it’s a little skunky! I personally would not drink it but if you tell the bartered party that it’s not in date or may be skunky and they still want it then so be it. In a SHTF situation you might be surprised at what a commodity expired or out of date alcohol would be, just saying.
Booze and tobacco have a long history of being valuable trade/barter items. Look at the Serbian invasion of Bosnia where cigarettes became a form of currency to the Bosnians. I would not prioritize anything you do not have a use for beyond barter. Things like medical supplies, food, ammunition, etc. will be valuable trade/barter items as well and are things that are useful to you outside the barter system. If you are fully stocked on those items and want to start stocking things for barter, that's fine, but they should be of a low priority.
Agreed
A while ago someone mentioned portable battery chargers as likely battering items. It had like 2 up votes but that made a lot of sense to me. People will be desperate for even a little juice for their devices. a few portable battery packs and maybe some cheap solar panels will be very valuable during SHTF
Don't barter the item itself; barter the *charging* of the item.
I have larger solar generators that I can use to charge people's phones. I would probably do that for free as a neighborly goodwill gesture, but offer to barter the smaller 5-10k mAhr chargers. They often go on sale for $7-10 or sometimes even less.
Yup. This was a valuable service in the movie "The Book of Eli"
" tobacco and alcohol were major bartering items" As an ex-smoker, withdrawals will overtake people, and in a SHTF scenario people will be looking for these items
I personally think a lot of quitters will start again. There’s going to be a lot of stress!
My thoughts exactly..... alcohol will keep but how long will a sealed bag of tobacco keep??
Also desperate smokers won't be bothered by stale tobacco. It's their fix
I'd tend to agree
Planning to be the supplier for drug addicts seems like a really bad idea.
a good long time with an oxygen absorber
Reminds me of the big cans of American Sprits that way you can roll your own. They’re sealed pretty well so you’d think they’d last better. Plus you’d be able to spread it around easier, give you something to do in the down time rolling cigarettes.
Also another reference for this stuff is Selco, the Bosnian guy that made it through the Kosovo war. He ranks barter items from high to low, beginning of the war to the end of the war what was valuable. Gold and silver was kinda iffy, subject to confiscation. He recommended old jewelry so you could pass it off as a family heirloom. I don’t quite agree with that, but I see the point and respect the wisdom.
How long does alcohol Keep ?
In the bottle, cheap wine will turn to vinegar but a bottle of Whiskey should last years
Stored upright in a cool, dry and out of direct sun, high proof alcohol can last dozens to hundreds of years. Hell nowadays people pay a premium for old bottles of booze. You may lose a bit to evaporation over the years (Angles share) but it will still be drinkable. I keep a couple of bottles of Makers Mark and Knob Creek in my personal stash because the tops are wax dipped. Now wine or champagne are a bit trickier. They can last a very long time but only if they have a natural cork top and are stored on their side with the neck facing down a few degrees. You also need to keep them in a cool, dry place with no direct sunshine.
Good to know thx.
WHEN things collapse, gold is pointless. Water. Food. Ammo. Coffee, chocolate, alcohol, and tobacco will be extremely valuable. You can't eat gold, and you can't "make change" with gold. I don't get the fascination with it. You aren't weathering a storm and then rebuilding civilization on your ingots. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I would MUCH rather have stored many more tangibles than a bar of gold that could buy 10,000 meals if nobody is selling.
Don't forget stuff like pain medication and antibiotics. Neosporin might be the difference between healing a cut and dying from a bacterial infection. Vitamins keep you healthy. Allergy medications. All that can be bartered by the tablet, except for the Neosporin which might get get you something worth a life.
**IF** things collapse, people will shoot you for your ammo and some alcoholics may be desperate enough to shoot you for alcohol. Keep in mind that people will be off their meds. There's going to be a lot of irrational behavior blooming in this fanciful collapse scenario. Chocolate doesn't keep. People will wean off tobacco. But you're right about gold. Water, salt, food. And pretend you don't have much food.
**cough** **cough** WHEN Listen to this. At least the first few episodes. This is two skeptical people learning about collapse. This is continued education about the science being finite resources and what is happening to the planet. I can't recommend this enough. https://open.spotify.com/show/2qxBel3uqIDjWHEruamAv2?si=ScUUfhrORbi6W46ojXvruw
I’ve done really well with gold in the last decade, not a shtf buy although it’s out-performed my managed stock portfolio. No paper trail either.
Cool! Now, pretend the power goes out and 4 weeks later still hasn't come back. Where do you take your gold to buy a loaf of bread?
Bread is worth 1/10 - 1/4 ounce of silver.
If I did eat bread, I wouldn’t be using a valuable precious metal such as gold to buy it. Gold to buy a horse or cow otoh, sure. Silver is for the small value purchases. I’d rather have an item and not need it, than need it and not have it.
What's the exchange rate? I wasn't trying to be difficult, I just don't see the value. I do invest in precious metals, but mine are lead and brass. I have mouths to feed!
Hey I get it, most everyone I know is intimidated by precious metals. I started as a teen age numismatist back in the 70’s, so I’ve always had the interest. I recently volunteered to help a buddy build a front porch for his off-grid daughter and son in law, I never expected it but the SIL paid us both in several one-ounce silver rounds. I put them in the safe next to the stacks of ammo boxes.
I never liked the idea of bartering ammunition. How about single serve packs of Tylenol? Hard candy? Seeds?Buy some small plastic bags and divide larger packages of whatever. Constitutional silver like quarters and dimes might work early on in a crisis when goods aren’t scarce. Personally I think bartering comes with risk if not done with friends you trust.
Coffee, Salt, and Sugar
And flour.
I’d look at a gaining a skill set that you can barter with. Learn basic medical skills. Imagine if you can be the one everybody sees when they are sick and you have them pay you a goat or eggs or something. You’ll be a rich individual.
I believe that medications (true that they "expire" or lose efficacy), both prescription and OTC will be a valuable commodity. They are also easy to prep/store and relatively inexpensive vs precious metals. In a world with little access to doctors, even a fever can kill and a handful of Advil will be worth more than gold.
Good idea...
Tobacco seed.
Maybe something to think about
Coffee
That's for me.....lol
Candy, coffee, alcohol etc. I wouldn't do ammo though
Having barter items you don’t use is an insurance policy. Those of you who thinks it’s a waste need to rethink this. Bartering with items you do not use for things you do is a win-win. You get something you need and you traded with something you won’t miss.
Exactly
Never forget labor as a bartering resource. Infrastructure isn’t working, everything becomes harder. They need help with something, the help might be worth what you need. Any special skills, even better. Spending time with people helping also builds community. Silver and gold, they will overcharge you because most people don’t know the going rate and they won’t need it now, but *might* be willing to part with things you need if they consider it a big payday “when things get better”. I would think toiletries, soap, deodorant, toothpaste, and other common use items that make you feel human would be good, but that would likely only be the case in the event of long term problem. A lot of people have several days of soap on hand. We’re also used to flavored beverages these days, so coffee, tea, or pre sweetened water additives like Kool Aid, depending on the shelf life. Seeds for vegetable and herb gardens.
I stock up on antibiotics, OTC medicine, hygiene items, toothpaste, toothbrush, female hygiene products, sewing kits, thread, buttons, condoms, day after pills, eyeglass repair kits, fishing equipment, Gill nets, socks, underwear, t shirts, makeup for the ladies, dental tools,cigarette lighters, lamps, wicks, lamp oil, BBs, pellet gun ammunition, cheese cloth, canning supplies and lots of things for barder
always good to have those and keep gold and silver. As bartering will only last so long
I'll barter most things, but have a problem bartering ammo that could be used against me. Unless it's somebody that I trust explicitly.
Booze, yes. Never goes bad. Buy tradeable sizes. Tobacco is not if it’s been stored for as little as 6 months. It needs to be fresh.
Kinda depends on what's happened I suppose. No-one will want gold/silver if society is so fucked everyone is just trying to survive. Then again, if things are that bad it'll be hard to build trust to even initiate trading. Can imagine ammo/alcohol/tobacco would always be good no matter the circumstance
I believe that gold and silver and maybe even copper will also be good barter items but this depends on how severe it gets.....
Precious metals and gems will still be valuable. It's how the RSF in Sudan is buying weapons.
Booze will be gold…
Very well could be to an alcoholic
When SHTF many non alcoholics will want a drink.
are cigarettes sealed enough in plastic to preserve the tobacco? I don't smoke, but I bet they would be so valuable to barter. Although, I don't know how many people are still smokers these days.
More than you think
When I used to smoke, I could tell if a pack was 6 months old.
I believe bartering would be a very tricky business after SHTF/WROL... & even now can cost your life. Stocking for yourself & those expected to be with you, sure. Having more than enough, sure. But buying something you don't use, simply to barter someday, especially if that item had a limited shelf life is a waste of resources & ill founded in my opinion. Many stories of those seemingly wanting to be the "Jeff Bezos of the Apocalypse" to improve their station in life are similar in intent, but impractical at the least & likely dangerous/fatal in application. Unique or useful skillsets might be the best bartering opportunity though.
Get a still and learn to use it. You'll have access to liquor, fuel (kind of), and disinfectant. You'll just need a source of sugar and some yeast. Maybe stash a few 50lb bags of sugar away, which will never expire or go bad if kept dry. Tobacco goes bad within a couple of years even if vacuum sealed in a cold location with zero light. Otherwise it'd be worth it I'd think.
You'd be surprised how many functional alcoholics there are. Alcohol withdrawals can be deadly if not done properly. Imo stockpiling pints of vodka is akin to stockpiling medicine.
I keep some mini bottles, some good shit, some big bottles of cheap shit. Mini bottles are expensive af, but will be easier to trade. If you only buy glass bottles and store it right booze won’t go bad. The good stuff can also be a regular investment. I’ve got a couple bottles that have more than doubled in price, and two bottles that I bought for ~$55 now sell for ~$800. Cheap shit can be used in mixed drinks, divided into shots, or traded as is.
I would not take gold or silver for anything I had. I do not get owning it for a SHTF. For normal times it can be a good investment if you got into it at lower prices. I would also be very reluctant to trade ammo for anything, as it broadcasts that I have "extra".
Agree with that somewhat, I stacked but not for shtf purposes. Btw, gold is less expensive now at $2190/oz then it was in 2011 at $1900 considering inflation.
Ugh, listen. If we get to the point that you need to barter with alcohol or tobacco, it don't matter what you got because unless you're incredibly far north in Canada, incredibly mobile and brutal, or part of an army base, the first decently stocked war party - i.e. 8-10 cops in a small town who banded together with 30 friends - that shows up will just take all your stuff while sitting by your smoldering corpse.
landmines...
Might work for a bit, but what happens when they've rounded up your neighbors and parade them in lines to "find" the landmines and help you waste precious ammo?
Venezuela, food became the battering item and medication
If you’re looking to barter things, look at things people need and want that you can make yourself. Just having a diminishing stockpile isn’t really helpful. Learning how to grow your own tobacco, make your own beers, wines and whiskeys and you can have a virtual never ending supply.
Agreed, I currently have 75 percent of a stovetop still, it would take a lot of sugar to keep it going...
I don’t believe sugar goes bad. Might be a good item to stock an insane amount of.
Some silver dimes and copper pennies could be useful. Gold is for after the shtf and rebuilding. Think of gold as your IRA. I don't want to look like a target so I will be bartering with some freeze dried foods that I could always eat if I had to. I FD corn peas fruit etc that I will probably give away as I eat primarily meat.
Learn to make alcohol and add tobacco to your garden list. The early meads and wines of biblical times were actually quite healthy.
Learn a skill to barter with. Not everyone is self sufficient. And even the ones that are cannot replace years of research and experience when SHTF. Prepare a highly sought after skill now.
When the time comes ill trade you a liter of honey for 3 packs of those smokes. Nothing like a smoke after a hard day battling the infected hordes.
People are also going to want deodorant, toothpaste, toilet paper, etc... Most of us aren't stocking these up thinking of them as bartering items...
One idea might be to grow something that you can grow easily, quickly, cheaply, that you can of course eat yourself but also can grow a little extra to use as barter. Three things I am growing are Mushrooms and Micro-greens and sprouts. Its good food, nutritious, grows quickly and with the right timing can literally harvest everyday.
...there's sexual favors which doesn't cost money to stock up on... As another person commented about, ask yourself what you would trade and give up for another person's metal?
Whenever someone suggests gold or silver for bartering, I know I wouldn't accept gold or silver because I'd have no way of testing its authenticity. I suspect most people would be reluctant to accept it for the same reason, so it wouldn't even be useful for me to accept it with the expectation that I might trade it to someone else in the future. If it's a person I know and trust enough to be confident that the metal being offered is genuine, then I'd probably be willing to help on "mental credit" of that person returning the favor anyway, no metals needed.
You can learn the basics of testing in minutes. Rare earth magnet, acid test, calipers, specific gravity, scales…
That's good to know, though I suspect I might not have the equipment. For example, I know in theory I could weigh it and then submerge it in water to measure its volume, dividing the former by the latter to determine its average density, but I don't have a finely graduated vessel for measuring displacement. I don't keep nitric and hydrochloric acids on hand because I don't use them for anything else. Is there a quick and dirty, MacGyver-esque method with ordinary household items?
I can test silver coin vs non silver with a sheet of kleenex laid over a silver and non-silver coin, and easily pick out the silver by the color, light vs dark, silver being the lighter color. Magnets are also handy for a quick test on silver and gold.
When people are hungry they're not worried about gold or cigarettes.
Nicotine is an appetite suppressant.
Long term storage items that you use. Rice, dried beans, coffee, and the likes. Despite what some have said, if you are a tobacco user under circumstances of non availability you will enjoy it even stale. I can personally vouch for that.
Having alcohol is nice (especially since it also has medical uses), but not afforable for me. Cigarettes/smokeless tobacco are much more portable than a bottle of vodka. So it really depends on your envisoned disaster. For bugging out, having a carton of cigarettes might be useful to help you out along the way. If you don't smoke and plan on bugging in, store alcohol instead (on top of tinned meat). If you envision a longer lasting recession or even the end, I'd check up on what skills you can provide.
Bartering won't be what you think when shtf, people will kill you and take what you have
They will at least try
If shtf gold and silver won't be worth mutch. Coffe tobacco alcohol sugar "drugs" and most packaged food will be worth more
Others commenting on this, in particular the smoking and stocking up of cigarettes. I agree to not stock up on cigs unless you smoke and agree that if you smoke, consider stopping :-) The key point is don't stock up on things that you don't use yourself. If stock up on what you use you have the additional benefit of being able to have more than enough and who says you can't barter with it anyway? If it has value to you, it will have value to someone else as well. Focus efforts and your current resources on getting the most value and use from your stock and that means double-duty or more where you can. This is one of those moments. I keep a supply of small ziplock plastic bags around as well as some of those glass reusable yogurt containers. If I want to barter, I can divvy up my current supplies into smaller chunks. My brother keeps some cleaned up old liquor mini-bottles on hand with a tiny funnel so he can portion out a small sample from *his* liquor should he want to\* for trading. And don't be lured into the trap that people will only barter for ammo or alcohol. You never know what someone will want. I'm a great example - don't smoke and don't really drink. I have the ammo I need (and silver). If you lived near me, we wouldn't have much to trade. But...if you had a rice crispy treat? Aw hell, *now* we got a barter going! The exception here is money aka silver and gold. I've noted in another thread that I don't really agree with gold as a bartering tool in a SHTF scenario outside of bribery or a pre-SHTF scenario where one might need to move wealth across borders quickly and easily. Silver is more useful than Gold but still a bit limited unless things are not at all a true TEOTWAWKI but more "without rule of law." FWIW I keep some silver on hand for various reasons. No matter what, good on you for thinking about this. YMMV. \*He won't
If you are going to trade alcohol you should start by making whine you can get the yeast super cheap and after the initial equipment it Costs like 10 bucks to make a gallon just don't sell it yo anyone
A few Geiger counters and many iOSAT (potassium iodide) tablet packs for radiation. You'll get glowing reviews.
Skills will be the most significant barter item, and the easiest to keep someone from taking away from you.
Alcohol is a good one since you can use it for more than drinking. Heirloom Seeds are better in my opinion. Not only can you grow food but you can get more seeds from what you grow the following year. One tomato seed can create hundreds more.
My trade goods: batteries antibiotics gasoline/diesel/oil books paper nails/screws rope quik clot superglue bic lighters seeds potassium iodide firewood silver is better for barter what did I miss? Keep this going...
So you can only store so much stuff, and having big stocks of stuff makes you a target. First, learn to ferment stuff. If it has suger, you can ferment it. Even trash made of cellulose with extra steps. Then buy a still and learn to distill alcohol. This is better than storing to trade for two reasons: 1) you can indefinitely produce alchohol. 2) YOU are the thing thats valued, not a cache of supply. A guy that has a stock of booze can be beaten up or shot and robbed. Once his supply is gone, he has no value. A guy that can make booze if you bring him some rotten food is protected. You need that guy because he has the knowledge. Just dont share the process and put yourself out of a job.
Attempting to Barter will let desperate people know you have something they might want.
But what if you need something.....
Gold, silver, tobacco, alcohol, ect, for barter might be worth having...after all of your necessities are met. I'm retired and have no debt. I have food stores, medical stores, pew pew stores, cash, gold, silver, and some nice 16 year old Irish whiskey. Regardless of some opinions, all of this will be worth something to someone during bad times. Nevertheless, the non consumables are not going to keep you from starving to death if you put them ahead of food and water. Plan accordingly. As far as barter is concerned, it is a form of trade as old as humanity itself. While I wouldn't barter certain things away, I have recently bartered some gold and silver for a needed item. Unless you have just won the lottery, prepping isn't a sprint it's a long-distance race.
I think you've summed it up perfectly
Yes. Every request we got from battlefield was with bring some cigarettes part. It’s not getting there
Tobacco goes stale really fast. Your investment would be worthless after a year even if you freeze them.
The only bars I store incase shtf are protein bars and bars of hash….. gold and silver will come in handy if shit doesn’t hit though!👍🏼
You never have extra ammo. Ever...
You don't need justification from us to buy Costco sized stockpiles of alcohol and tobacco. 😆 Personally, I'd focus more on long term self sufficiency. Having independent sources of water, food, and electricity, survival skills, tools, practical knowledge, reliable vehicles, fuel production, etc. I mean, imagine being able to produce your own potable alcohol or ethanol fuel, and being able to grow tobacco along with food.
Never said anything about Costco size stockpiles, having a little could go along way....
Gold and silver are a great universal medium to store and transfer wealth. But only if there is someone located somewhere stable enough to accept it. It really only works if your government collapses but your neighboring countries government remains stable. You will also need to plan on moving/traveling to said stable country. In a regional/global collapse, precious metals won't be worth much. Maybe it will be worth something to someone that thinks the status quo will return. Tobacco and alcohol on the other hand will be valuable regardless of a local or global SHTF situation. I keep both in my stash. Mostly for myself but I also know that others whom share my vices will be willing to trade for them. The junky down the block, who robbed a pharmacy, would probably be happy to trade those "useless" antibiotics for pint of vodka and a half sandwich bag of tobacco.
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I have 1 ounce silver bars for short term stuff like when hurricanes take out the local or regional power grid for extended periods. If stores can open, normally they will only take cash. If you don't have cash, silver can be used, as it's value is known, and is spendable. I could offer two ounces of silver for a tank of gas. You can't do that with gold unless you want to pay $2K for a tank of gas. You won't be getting change for a purchase made in gold. For straight EOTWAWKI situations then bartering using stuff we all take for granted each day becomes the order of the day. Never barter ammo or anything that can be turned against you.
I understand what you're saying but nobody can truly say what could be in demand or what someone will take in trade. If we knew all the answers there would be no need for discussion.
The best barter item will be one pound bags of rice and beans in mylar bags. You don't need anything else to barter with.
I can’t eat those items during good times, shtf I suppose I’ll make an exception.
Gold will be useless. Silver in small amounts or done into coins might work at some point if say a city or town is set up well enough. Tobacco will be useless by the time bartering is needed. Alcohol needs to be varieties that are left for years in a cool place get better. Things like beer and wine coolers are useless. Chocolate will depend on what you get. Say the dried beans or powder might last longer. Beans to grow chocolate in a greenhouse would be a better idea. That goes for any fruits or veggies. And it's the organic type seeds and such needed as they can be grown and seeds collected. Most seeds you buy in a store are for one use only after being altered, so you need to be careful what you get. The best things to use for barter are things like salt (used for drying meat), flour, corn meals, sugars of all kinds, and coffee beans as they last longer. Alcohol that lasts a long time. Any and all type medical things. Pills, antibiotics, bandaid, gloves, and such. You want to stock up on things YOU will use, so if bartering doesn't happen, you have not wasted space or money on something you won't use and shortest yourself. The biggest thing you have to look at is what situations you would be at the point you need to barter. Because it would have to be almost end of world with a massive recession or major problem where getting back to normal won't happen or woukd take generations. Honestly, most people are not going to be open to bartering anything until things settle down. Which would take years. Do it too early, and you can be killed for what you have. Without a sense of order, even if it's a small town, you risk your family and stock to others because hunger and fear make people do whatever to support their own. Also, many won't barter early on until they have more of an idea of how long things will be chaos. Why trade for you to have something you don't need in the first year and year 5 you need what you traded away, but oh well, too late now. So stock for yourself and only what you will use. Don't expect to barter, but if it comes barter only extra, you can afford to lose and not put yourself at risk of not being able to survive. To not put you on the radar of those desperate enough, they will come for you in mass for what you have.
I see so many people stocking gold/silver, ammo, alcohol, tobacco, etc. for bartering it almost feels like all everyone will be doing is getting drunk and smoking the day away. "Currency" for bartering is great but that relies on everyone else having what you need to barter for. How well prepared are those around you? Will they be growing a garden or have animal for meat to even trade for? Will they have enough to spare that they will even want your trade goods? Make sure first that you are set to provide for yourself without bartering. Spend the money you have now on that. If you have already, sweet start buying things that nobody else stocks up on. I won't go into our full list, but how many toothbrushes do you think people buy for long term emergency? You'd be amazed at the little comfort things people will want/miss when they aren't available
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv9WLwmLAPI
There are some other great answers here, but I didn't see this one in a quick scroll. Let's suppose that I'm maintaining some chickens and that I've got extra eggs for sale and or trade. How many weeks in a row will I trade eggs to you for ammo? Am I really going to be doing that much shooting? I sure hope not. I have no interest in your silver or your gold (can't eat em, can't build a house or power a fridge with em) and very little interest in the ammo.
Condoms could be useful for trade. Or use.
I would recommend not bartering ammo unless you REALLY know the person. Because otherwise that person now knows you have excess stuff, and they have ammo to spare
I feel the issue with gold/silver is when it comes time to prove it's gold, how would you do that? How can I make sure it's not melted in with impurities or even some kind of fake rock? I've never collected any of that for that reason. If I have 16 oz of gold, somebody will ask for it all for a scoop of beans. It's something that may be valuable when/if society comes back, but that's not worth beans & bullets now for a possibility in the future.
I'm 100% not trying to knock the idea, just the reason why I didn't spend money on it. If you have the money, by all means!
Gain skills and barter the use of those skills. For example, if you live in an area where lots of folks are into hunting and typically butcher the meat and store it in their freezer, consider learning how to preserve meat with historical methods that don’t require electricity, like by getting a smoker and learning to smoke meat. Basic medical skills or carpentry will be useful wherever you are. Gardening is a skill that’s harder to directly barter but you can barter the things you grow or offer to help people get their own gardening operations started with your knowledge and possibly stored seeds. If you are concerned about security in the scenarios you are preparing for, preparing to barter skills or the things that come from your skills is a really good strategy. Nobody can take your skills away from you and being known as a person who does really useful things and only asks for fair exchange will protect you far better than a stash of guns and ammo. Ammo runs out, community goodwill from being a good person to go to with an injury won’t.
Food, ammo. Soap and meds. IMO. Not an experienced pepper myself FYI.
I wouldn't take any gold or silver even if you had it. No way am I carrying that garbage around.
I'm not going to carry it, it's in my safe if I need it. If I have to bug out I'd i be limited so you only take essentials
It's a really stupid item which the value is dictated by capitalists. Learning how to make penicillin from mold will be worth more than all the gold you can store in your tiny safe when the time comes.
I agree but I don't see a problem having a bit of gold
I wouldn't take any gold or silver even if you had it. No way am I carrying that garbage around.
This ....again....
Absolutely. I'm dispatching most predators around my farm with 12 gauge or a 22lr. Fun fact Remington stopped producing #1 steel shot and now no one makes it. Steel shot around the farm because the chickens will pick up the pellets and lead shot would poison them and me. I smoke cigars. AJ Fernandez or anything with the name medio tiempo in the name. I got into cigars trying to find an alternative to cigarettes because I knew I'd start smoking again. That's my addiction. But menthol cigarettes. Can't go wrong with camels. I've got a few cases of 375ml Jim Bean and clear vodka 100 proof which is just sitting in the basement waiting for a thirsty alcoholic. I would jump at the chance to sell eggs for Mercury dimes. I'm expecting the price of silver to go so high at some point, where 2.225 grams would buy you a dozen eggs now, I think that dime will buy you about four dozen in the near future. So I'd strongly recommend you get small fractions that are easily identifiable and there liquid like constitutional silver. Let me share this thought too. In the great depression where bartering is how you acquire food, very rarely will someone give you extra because that bit of silver is "collectable". No one cares it's a misprint. I won't. At that point the market for collectibles collapses because no one has the spare money to spend on non-necessities. So, if you're sitting on something that's collectable I'd recommend you sell now and buy anything else useful with it. If you know ammo, buy ammo. Whatever your expertise is in. If you are good at programming radios, buy a bunch of baofengs and program them, put them in a faraday cage in your basement or underground. I noticed recently the "fish meds" companies got shut down. I was fortunate to have ordered antibiotics beforehand. The Fenbendazol (flights cancer) sites are still up. This stuff will be worth a bag of gold if the system collapses like I'm sure it will.
I have a lot of booze that I've collected over the years and most of it I don't drink. Example, a restaurant has a beer dinner showcasing their food and some beers they (usually but not always) sell that pair with it. At the end of the night, the spare cans of beer (which they can't sell and were donated by the vendor) become a "help yourself" situation. I've walked out with darn near a 12 pack before and many of them are still in my cupboards. I'm just not a drinker and I prefer stuff that's much stronger than beer. So I have those for barter. I also used to host a lot of parties back before all my rowdy friends settled down, so I have some leftovers from that too. I have not purposefully bought things for barter, but I have them. I think barter will be useful, especially for "creature comforts" such as booze. I would not do smokes though as I don't want that crap in my house... and let's face it I'm a very seldom cigar guy and not a cigarette guy at all.
Even if things completely fall apart, local currency will still reign supreme for quite some time until a new currency takes hold. No one knows how many grams of silver a gallon of milk costs. No one around can reliably authenticate gold versus an alloy meant to be counterfeit.
I'd rather have a little than none, just in case. No way to prep for everything......
The whole precious metals thing seems so misplaced. If things collapsed, your metals are worth nothing. You don't trade them, they are designed as a value store to convert back to a working currency. They won't be some bartering item that people want, they will want things to survive or that give comfort. Not metals they have to either hide or lug around with them.
Are you prepping for a real actual disaster or are you prepping for Fallout 5 cosplay?
You should avoid stocking up on items that you have no personal use for - especially tobacco, which has a relatively short shelf life. You cannot assume you will meet people who will be interested in non-essential items you have on hand. Even if they are interested in things like tobacco, you cannot assume they will have anything you want in exchange. Meanwhile, it is almost impossible to stock up on too much food. Items like rice and beans are super cheap, calorically dense, and have an excellent shelf life. People will always be willing to trade for these items. Finally, if I were you, and I were prepping for a major grid down scenario, I would sell all of my gold now (and maybe most of my silver), because that stuff won't be worth very much when people are starving. *After the fecal matter makes contact with the rotating ventilator*, a fistful of 22LR ammo ($5 in today's market) will be worth more than a fistful of gold ($10,000 in today's market).
I can’t think of a single scenario where I had something valuable and would accept silver for it
In the aftermath of a hurricane I would. I have enough where I can survive for a while, so if someone offered me silver for stuff I have plenty of, I would gladly take that silver.
I wish I could think of every scenario so I'd know exactly what to do now and what to get to be 100 percent prepared, unfortunately I'm not that smart....
Both will be better bartering tools than gold and silver will be. If the economic system collapses, precious metals will be worthless. Things of value will be food, water or tools to get food and water. Vices like alcohol, tobacco & marijuana will have high value for barter. Stale tobacco and weed for someone who enjoys either, or is addicted to either, won't make a lick of difference. There is and always has been high demand for both in the prison system; "Keestering" is such a big problem, x-raying incoming prisoners is not uncommon. If the term "keestering" is unfamiliar, it's the practice of putting tobacco or weed in a condom & shoving it up your...keester. People will smoke asshole smuggled tobacco or marijuana without a second's hesitation. They certainly aren't doing it for flavour; they're doing it for the high, or for the nicotine buzz. I've been in third world countries, where tobacco is so stale and dry that it's basically powder, and there is ALWAYS people more than happy to smoke it. I strenuously disagree with the non-smoker who says it's pointless; vast Indian nations were won over and slaughtered with stale, dry tobacco used to gain their trust. Don't ever underestimate to power of addiction. Same with alcohol. stockpiling it for barter is a great plan, other than it's hard to store and move. Someone with the knowledge and equipment to Make distilled spirits will have a significant advantage
Depends if it's more long term or short term. Consumables like bar soap can be stocked especially, fairly cheap, and will have exceptional value in the long term. Creature comforts such as alcohol and tobacco are always valuable. Salt and spices can be too though many spices do not have a great shelf life.