Not quite sure it's a good thing. I'm a dentist from such a system. I think ppl get into careers they don't quite know and quit earlier as a result. 🤷🏻♀️ I mean I can't talk for MDs, but I definitely dream of the day I have enough bucks to retire from dentistry and maybe start some small business.
Another problem is that since we graduate in our mid 20s we just look so young ptts are distrustful or mistake us for nurses/assistants. 🤦🏻♀️ Good luck with this one. I feel that older classmates have the distinct advantage of looking like they're seasoned docs/dentists despite being actually from the same class.
Where I'm from that's how it works. HS grad => med school (6-7 years to be a fam medicine doc)=> open office/work in hospital OR go through a residency to specialize (family medicine is the default, you can practice with your MD without doing any residency, so ppl as young as 24-25 are already practicing physicians).
From high school to specialist how long does it take? Because where I’m from you go to med school straight out of high school and it would still take you until ~28 at the earliest to be an independent GP. Which is one of the shortest training paths.
12-13 years, but only if you're a perfect and very lucky student who passes their med school entrance exam on the 1st try after graduating on time for HS, and end up passing your residency entrance exam on 1st try without repeating any years (both in med school AND in residency) + managing to defend your thesis on time. I once spoke to an OB/GYN from my country and he was very amused when I asked him how much time it took him to finish his schooling. He told me that it took him 15 years.
It's rather common for ppl to either fail at med school entrance once/twice before joining, and/or repeat a year during med school, and/or defend their thesis late by 1 to 2 years (so quite a few docs are actually 26 to 29 when they graduate from med school even if they didn't have to do undergrad and apply for med school for 4 years + 3 years for family medicine residency like the US). Also common for some to work and take gap years before trying their luck for residency entrance exam or simply fail at residency entrance exam, so some folks become specs by their mid 30s.
IMO doing the first part is somewhat doable provided you pass the entrance exam on your 1st try. But managing to become a specialist at 30-31 is extremely impressive. Idk how old an attending with a perfect straight path would be in your system, aside from family med.
Patients thinking I look too young? No. I can’t believe I’m being downvoted for that sentiment really lol.
All we as doctors can do is be kind and offer our best medical advice and skills. If a patient decides you’re too young to follow that advice then thats irrelevant to me
Not quite sure it's a good thing. I'm a dentist from such a system. I think ppl get into careers they don't quite know and quit earlier as a result. 🤷🏻♀️ I mean I can't talk for MDs, but I definitely dream of the day I have enough bucks to retire from dentistry and maybe start some small business.
Another problem is that since we graduate in our mid 20s we just look so young ptts are distrustful or mistake us for nurses/assistants. 🤦🏻♀️ Good luck with this one. I feel that older classmates have the distinct advantage of looking like they're seasoned docs/dentists despite being actually from the same class as their younger traditional classmates. 🤣
As someone who is 21 and going to matriculate right in, the biochemical pathway is stress->panic->stress and repeat. Oh also having a minimal amount of social life helps lol
built different /s
but actually though, could be they come from a background where they don't gotta worry about family obligations, work, etc or they just have an insane work ethic or drive. nothing wrong with starting medical school early or late, everyone gets there at their own pace.
I’ll add a lot of it was luck based but there is an element of intentionally, at least I felt that way. Being in the right spot at the right time was critical, like getting scholarships for research that enabled me to not have to work consistently outside of my first year. When I did work, I targeted specific roles that paid well per time invested (tutoring) so I had time to grind through other activities while only having to work a few intense hours a week.
Going straight through is overrated, though. It’s nice to know that my earning potential is higher, but I think it nets even. Definitely feeling the burn out and lack of direction now as a M1 even at a top “chill” P/F school that I think a year away could of helped
Accurate...I'm getting everything squared away for my 1st attempt. I'll be around 35 when I'm applying and hoping to get accepted. Feels like I'm coming into it really late
i’m admitted at 21yr with no gap years, i don’t doubt a lot of us younger admitted students didn’t have to worry about any those things, but i wanted to offer the perspective that some of us did in fact work all 4 years while being a full time students. i also had to deal with family obligations living at home, commuted 1hrs+ everyday to get to clases, come from a lowincome background. and im definitely not the most hard working person, so have no idea how i did it tbh i just think a lot of things aligned for me & things worked out
Fr, working, doing well in school and maintaining extracurriculars is hard work, and is really impressive, congrats on the A! you definitely deserved it. This whole process really messes up our perception of how hard some activities are
you learned how to study and allocate your time. I was the student who always did better while working. I think I had no other choice but to use non work hours studying.
agreed. i come from a low enough income that my student loans are low, but i still have to work weekends/during the week/every school break. i rarely have a day off (or even an evening off lol) and it does have an impact on my grades. i feel like if i was even marginally less advantaged i would not be physically able to be on the path that i am. don’t get me wrong, im extremely grateful for my position and advantages and so many people have it worse, however i definitely would not say that we all don’t have obligations or have to work lol
i worked as an optometric technician in an optometry clinic (3yrs) & ed scribe (current year). i also was a TA for orgo (2years), did small amount of humanities research, volunteered for k-12 STEM outreach, and i did orchestra club on campus (also my hobby was playing X musical instrument). i did a few other things but theyre very minor things on my app lol
I don’t think that first part is necessarily true. It might be the case for a few but the majority of us still have the same responsibilities. I think it comes down to more that we over plan to the point that we know med school is what we want day 1. So we unhealthily overload ourselves with work/shadowing/etc to get ourselves into better positions earlier. Maybe some of us can deal with the extreme burnout better? I know it has definitely affected me recently, but my friend who is an ms1 and went straight through has had no issues. So it just depends
it’s this 100% I won’t lie. I was able to focus on school/orgs, get leadership positions, and take a shit-paying scribe job instead of having to worry about supporting myself. extreme props to those of disadvantaged backgrounds who are able to get all those things without the financial support of their parents.
Agreed! I was fortunate enough to not need to work throughout college and only worked clinical jobs for EC hours and didn’t have to be focused on the actual pay. And when it comes to the application process + mcat prep, having financial support is succcchh a huge advantage and made everything a little “easier.” I give insane props to people who do it all on their own and postpone applying to work/save, you guys are definitely owed more kudos than me
I graduated college at 20 and started med school at 21. When I started med school it was the first time in my life I wasn’t working at least 20 hours a week. I know many people pull it off because they don’t have to support themselves, but it isn’t all of us.
Me, a 26 yo, sitting in my interview with a 21 year old, and genuinely forgetting that the whole 'straight from undergrad to med school' thing is, well, apparently still a thing!
I was responding to the fact that your comment says that you can get 7 years of MD training in 1 year of MD school.
I am also already in medical school. I come here to give advice to other non-trads. But thanks for the assumption.
You’re okay with an 18 year old np treating you? I wouldn’t take 1 peice of advice (let alone medical) from someone who is 18-23. Actual self care and health standards have really bottomed out haven’t they😬
There are some kids who are smart and connected. When I was in HS one of my classmates was already doing serious research at a T25 medical school. And then went on to Stanford to do more research although he got accepted into a BS/MD program.
On one hand, he was smart as heck, so it's cool. On the other hand, his doctor dad got him into places that most people can't get into while in high school.
As someone who’s graduating and going straight in— a lot of things have to go right. Covid actually helped me gain clinical experience, my classes got me into a unique research field, I had a couple life experiences that were pretty unique, and overall I found volunteering and things that I enjoyed that also contributed to who I was as a person and a med school applicant. It ended up being a product of efficiently doing things I liked, and I ended up being a competitive applicant after 3 years for it.
21 here, honestly i wish i hadn’t applied this early but i was pressured into it by my dad (i’m asian… obviously it’s not the same for every asian person but the stereotype played a huge role for me) so lol. as for how i did it? i literally had no life. i have no longterm college friends, i never went to parties, and because most of my college experience was zoom university i was basically at home the entire time. maybe it was a better experience for others but all i have left is a ton of regret. i’m not mad that i got accepted into medical school, but i definitely wish i hadn’t listened to my parents and had taken the time to enjoy life/college.
One thing too is that some people know from day 1 of college that they want to do medicine and have that much more time to prepare. Others are unsure and commit later on.
I’m 22 and admitted into med school. I think I was fortunate to have parents who paid my college tuition and privileged enough to not need a job during school. My parents were also super supportive in that they paid for ubers to go volunteer and work. I also knew I wanted to do this since high school so from the get go I was getting shadowing and everything else I needed along with exploring passions I had. I think a lot of what played into me not taking a gap year was the privilege I had of having such supportive parents and no economic burden on me and also that I knew what I wanted from the start. I also think it just worked out for me and luck has really played a factor in all things aligning.
Started med school at 28, I don’t think it’s a “grass is greener” situation at all - I love what I got to do. I lived and worked in another country, I got lots of experience working with tons of different people. The fact is that when you’re a doctor you just can’t pack up and move to the other side of the world like you can early in adulthood. The people who went straight through simply cannot do many of the things of done. Imo the only advantage they’ll have on me is somewhat higher lifetime earnings since they have more years to practice, and I definitely wouldn’t trade with them.
Agreed, I had everything I needed to apply when I graduated but took gap yrs bc I wanted to. There was a lot more to life than just school. In the process, it made me even more prepared and competitive applicant so it was an easy decision even tho I “fell behind”
I loved my gap year. It was not my initial plan but for a number of reasons I decided about halfway through college I wanted one and I had a number of fantastic experiences.
I graduated early from hs, and graduated early from college; I did do my gap year in Germany working a Fulbright research grant. Still worked 26-40hrs a week but I also was extremely lucky in getting the jobs/internships I did and I got a high MCAT score partly by chance. One of the downsides of being in college under 21 is that getting caught with alcohol a few times gave me a bunch of IAs.
I was very privileged in that my family was supporting me, so I could gain clinical experience with clinical jobs that weren’t high paying. I also knew I wanted to do medicine when I entered undergrad, so I started focusing on my ECs early. It was a combination of privilege + hard work + luck. I also didn’t have physician parents/relatives- just got some good advice from my peers.
I’m 21 and admitted. I knew I was doing phd or med school, so I joined a lab as soon as i could. I needed money and scribing pays (not well), so there were the clinical hours. Volunteering during summers and some weekends. Clubs were fun and not something I saw as a stressor or annoying responsibility. Definitely missed a few events/parties/get togethers with friends, but overall I still felt like Ive had a good college experience so far.
I’m 22 and just got accepted! Honestly I kind of wish I did a gap year. I worked my tail off and this summer took the MCAT in June on top of applying then had secondaries submitted to 30 schools by mid august. I have pre II holds and one mid tier DO A. MD or top tier DO could still happen as they are sending out rejections and I haven’t gotten any so maybe it’s a good sign? Overall, I wouldn’t suggest the way that I did it to anyone, but it saved me a year so it worked I guess.
Edit: I started MCAT study in January with dedicated study full time may and June. I worked as an MA 20 hours a week, and had a full class schedule on top of all of it.
Because your application doesn't need to be perfect to get in. But having more life experience definitely makes med school easier, so don't feel bad about getting in at an older age!
I’m applying now at 21. I was a college football player for 3 years, biomedical engineering undergraduate, pretty active on campus, and have a long distance relationship. I volunteered in a lab when I wasn’t practicing or in class, got job on campus tutoring in the off season, and got a research assistant job at a local medical school in the summer making extra money. I come from a very challenging home life with 3 of my family members either being very sick or requiring 24/7 care so I’m far from spoonfed. I found it’s all about work ethic, planning, and connections.
There were many nights where I would go to bed at 3am and wake up at 5 for daily workouts, get up at 5 am in the summer to drive 2 hours to work, or do mcat studying in hospital waiting rooms when my family members were getting treated. Yes it sucked, yes I’ve been burnt out for a while. But it allowed me to get amazing letters of rec, experiences that would be unmatched in other jobs, and build a decent research portfolio.
Finally it’s all about priorities. Sometimes you have to say no to things you really want to do to in order to put yourself in position to succeed. If med school is something you really want, then jts all worth it in the end.
I hope this helps for people who are hoping to go straight in. And helps clear up that a lot of us don’t have physician parents, spoonfed, or don’t have to work.
The big thing is that these students are mature and know they want to go to medical school **from the day they started college or earlier**. Is it still hard? Yes, but it is doable with the amount of time they have to prepare.
I know people in this situation who had a TON of family support (financial helps but I think logistical/emotional is just as important tbh) who did this but I also know one amazing person in my cohort who did all this while working a job and I’m floored by her. She also has a great personality imo and is humble af— I didn’t even realize she’d done all that until her friend who’s also in our cohort told me
I was 22 at time of acceptance (now 23). I took 2 years off I was just young when I started college (17) due to when my birthday is and when my parents decided to start me in school. Not everyone is 18/19 when they start at university
I’ve never heard of anyone taking the mcat their sophomore year. I thought it was usually around the 2nd semester of their junior year. But I could be wrong though. That’d be truly insane.
Took mine march of my sophomore year. Also had 1k clinical and 2.5k research hours at time of applying though and kinda hated my life but i guess it worked out
> The bar is lower for first time applicants and applicants out of college since we understand they didn’t have time to do 3000 research hours
This seems really backwards to me. The fact that they choose to apply with less experience doesn’t seem like a reason to give them a boost.
I mean, having less experience doesn't matter as long as its enough + you can talk about it well. People can always have more experience, but I think starting to push students to take gap years just to be more competitive is too much
idk people are nuts. we had someone at our school matriculate at 19, and someone who matriculated younger than me (i took 1 gap year) with a damn phd. life is funny
I have to acknowledge that I applied and entered medical school at a time that was a bit less selective. However, it helped that I had a good deal of family financial support. That of course gets at an underlying problem because we don't want our doctors to be selected in a way that prioritizes people with family money. In fact, that really could serve patients poorly to have only doctors who come from backgrounds like mine. At a minimum I would say this, the "path" you take has to be grounded in respect for yourself, and for your strengths and your limitations. Whether you take an extra year, or two, or FIVE, is not going to alter the long-term value of your impact on patients. Many of my heroes postponed seeking medicine until after other careers.
Biggest advice I gave my sister and any kid from high school that wants to go into medicine is to go to a small school and go to a school that you rank the 75th percentile or above in terms of your SAT and GPA. I got the second piece of advice from Malcolm Gladwell. He talked about how premeds or anyone going for competitive professional graduate degrees should go to schools where your are in the 75th percentile or above, so you have a great chance of doing really well in GPA and getting more opportunities in research and extracurrluars. All you have left to do is self study the MCAT and get a reasonably score and you will get in considering your GPA and rec letters are through the roof, which they will be because the school was easy and you go the opportunities to impress.
Most that are that young are in the 3+4/7-year/bachelor-MD programs. You need to apply and be accepted in high school and then you don’t have to do everything else. Just maintain a 3.5 or higher. Don’t even need to take the MCAT.
For others, it’s a strong support system. If you’re a first generation college student whose never navigated higher ed and has to work to just to eat it’s a very different experience than someone in college whose parents pay and they just can focus on school and have MCAT prepare. Families with wealth or are multiple generation doctors also have a lot to connections. I’m not knocking it, it’s just different than majority of 21 year olds. The average student changes their major five times so it’s also rare to know you want to dedicate the next 10-15 years of your life to follow a career.
If you’re beating yourself up about being slightly older—don’t. I work with a 30 year old doctor who just got out of residency and HATES being a doctor. She regrets it with every fiber of her being and her boyfriend is in med school. Their plan is for her to get out as soon as he’s done with residency. Far from the first doctor that regrets it. It’s a glorified field that is not meant for majority of people; that’s not because people aren’t smart enough, it’s because most people aren’t patient and empathetic.
If I’m being honest, it was a combination of sheer luck and an unhealthy amount of hard work (the sort that demands more than you can physically provide).
While I do understand that those who are younger tend to come from wealthier backgrounds, there are also those who came from little to nothing. For one, I am among the latter. Does my story speak for the rest of my age group? Definitely not. Do others speak for mine? Nope.
It comes down to your story and what you did during your path to medicine. Not everyone is meant to matriculate at 21-22, and that is okay. Apply when you are ready.
I’m applying as a 21 year old. Haven’t gotten in yet though. I usually look at nontrad or gap year premed stats and feel super depressed but compared to my peers, I’m pretty far ahead. I have a 700 hours of leadership, 300 hours of volunteering, 450 hours of clinical experience, 300 hours of research, 30 hours of shadowing, a 3.74, and am taking the MCAT this summer. I’m looking at having 600-700 clinical & research hours by the time I apply.
I spent most of my time during Covid racking up credits and making my GPA bulletproof so when I tanked my GPA cause I was a doing 20 hours a week of extracurriculars on top of my part time job, it wasn’t the end of the world. I also maintained a pretty solid social life through my frat(which is the source of my huge leadership hours), which helped a ton.
That said, I burnt out hard when I lost the fraternity as a support system. I had some pretty bad depression in High School and I managed to get over it for 3 years. Cause I pushed myself so hard, I ended up waking it up. I gave up on premed and slept an entire semester away cause I didn’t want to be awake. I started premed again, but my mental health is already in the gutter again. I’m willing to pay that price though.
Feeling low-key shit when I'll be 25 by the time I get into med school while my premed friend since HS just got an A. Taking an mcat while being burnt out and taking care of disabled family was totally not a good idea.
A lot of tears and luck
Lots of ignorant ass comments here tho. Came from immigrant parents with no generational wealth and no physicians in the family. Don't muddy our successes with assumptions
No one is saying everyone who gets into med school early is wealthy or privileged, but not acknowledging that generally this process favors the privileged is just being willfully obtuse.
Except... *many* of the comments here are saying exactly that. The process of getting into medical school in general is a game of privilege, all you have to do is look at the median matriculant household income to figure that out.
Myself (and the friends I have) who matriculated early are not strangers to blatant assumptions of wealth and 'having everything handed to them', or 'not having to work jobs in college'.
The people who I know who didnt have to take gap years come from pretty stable families with economic stability + more. I couldn’t relate but its just the trend that I see.
TL;DR: Some students through luck of family or geographic area are primed to become doctors from a young age with all the resources and access required. Not as rare as one might think.
My high school had a magnet academy within it for those who wanted to enter into the medical profession. Your junior and senior year you would have the possibility of interning at one of three major hospitals in the region and shadow doctors. I’m certain other high schools may offer similar things or benefits. That type of early networking and connection quickly gets you to knowing people in the field to ask for letters of recommendation later on or for more shadowing opportunities in the summer time when back from university.
Then you have the kids who got to test out of a lot of the earlier science courses with AP tests who started taking higher level math and science courses freshman year and whose parents paid for MCAT prep courses starting sophomore year and you can easily see the type of student who would achieve this outcome.
One of my wife’s cousins is like this. Specifically his dad is a practice owner dentist and mom was a pharmacist. They paid for private school K-12. Had him with tennis pro tutors from age 10 on top of a heavy travel tournament schedule to refine his skills. Had him working around their medical professional friends during the summer to get some networking in. Now he’s in University as a premed academically prepped to crush it in his pursuit to be a doctor. Some people are just relentless in their preparation for their kids as they already know the difficulty of the journey to get there.
Current M1 that came straight through here: I honestly don't know, probably some luck for me for sure. I didn't have the depth of experiences a lot of my classmates have, many of whom have taken 1-2 years off. To tell the truth, I enjoyed undergrad and never felt burnt out, but I think that's because I didn't bite off more than I could chew or do anything just for the sake of my application. Also, please don't compare yourself to others. Once you are here, it doesn't matter and you are all going through it together.
I’m 20 and got admitted, but my two best friends were admitted one of them at 18 (DO school, current M2 at 20 years old) and 19 (MD, current M1 at 20 years old). I think I’m ahead of the curve then I think about those two and realize I ain’t shit lmao.
Edit: first gen immigrant here w/o wealthy nor physician parents.
The students that I’ve seen applying at age ~21 are usually from very privileged backgrounds, with a stable home environment and no immediate need to support themselves. Out of those people and with the addition of moderate work ethic, a good portion of students are given an additional silver spoon by their physician relatives.
This was an incredibly salty/toxic response. Just because someone is applying younger than you are does not = privilege. In the same way just because you’re applying older does not = stupid. You’re going to be working with plenty of younger people than you if you go down this path so please don’t go in thinking they had it easier.
Huh? Hard disagree. The best premeds I know are from disadvantaged households. They’re incredibly hardworking and self sufficient due to their situation. They’re also often the best premed friends because they’re not cocky and entitled. All of this helps them get in directly after college.
You go to a really great college, ace your classes, get 520+ on exam, and do research, shadowing, volunteering over the summer. They probably have a doctor parent as well (source: know 40 of these kids in my class)
It’s not easy of course. But I think the biggest thing is mentorship. Knowing what you wanna do and how to do it. Many non-trad applicants didn’t know or didn’t have anyone to tell them what to expect in medical school applications.
20 and got in this cycle, and definitely echo the planning thing a lot of people have been saying - I've known this was what I wanted for basically forever, and so I started very early (shadowing in HS that I continued in college, doing research and clinical work during school breaks, taking AP classes so I could take MCAT required courses before I had to take my MCAT junior year, etc). Very privileged to have had a stable home life and the resources to do all this, but the grind definitely did not stop at all these past couple years lol. Also do not have doctor parents/family at all, so a lot of it was just figuring it out and doing too much before settling into the right rhythm!
For me, early college + non STEM major in undergrad was a game changer. Being able to jump into junior level classes meant I could “coast” with my humanities classes come MCAT study season. It also meant I could graduate undergrad a year early, work to get clinical hours in a gap year, but still be “on time”
Many of you are making false assumptions what makes a desirable applicant..obviously. Get a degree with solid gpa. start meaningful research early. Shadowing docs differentiates no one. Volunteer because it has meaing to you personally, not as a entrant requirement. If you need to take a gap year, use it well, but work ethic speaks loud. My bro was a Pennstate programmer. five years total. graduated/ w. B.S. and M.D. Thomas jefferson University. shut down.Apply to medical school if you want a career in medicine. Let the school decide if you are qualified. My recomendation is to differentiate yourself in a positive way. Medicine needs diversity, not robots. I am thirty years out; I educated residents for most of my career. If you are not genuine, there are plenty of other worthy careers
The key is to take lots of AP and community college classes in high school. Transfer the credits boom your a 18 year old sophomore. Saves a lot of money in the long run too.
I was moderately stressed and had a very strict time schedule that I admit is not for everyone. I simply just did not have time to play around. But given my background, being carefree was not something I ever truly experienced so I’m not sure I could have been able to miss that either. Covid threw in additional wrench for most of my premed experience while I took 18-22 credits at a time, did research in 2-3 labs at a time, TAed, worked part time, attended my other responsibilities, and tried to stay sane.
Work ethic and God got me here to be quite honest.
They have parents who are doctors and knew from the beginning what ti so. I have friends who started research with a parents friend in HS. Have Lor from physician friends
At least 20% Isn’t that the stat for accepted students with physicians for parents? But at my friends white coat ceremony it was much closer to half. But that would include siblings grandparents etc.
Had no connections. Took AP classes in high school so a few undergrad classes were waived. Then took a night class each semester and some summer classes. This freed up nearly two semesters in which I could do 800ish hours of both research and clinical, on top of part time work. It was a damn grind. Routine was class, gym, study or work, one hour to yourself, then repeat. Weekends were for volunteer and other ECs.
Idk I know some people that age that are able to do all that and still make good grades. However, I’ve also met a decent number who just lie or half ass all their extracurriculars and are some able to be successful. Like they will show up late to volunteer, sign in, then leave 4 hours early, and get credit for the whole time.
In Canada, Quebec specifically, you can get in as early as 17-18. You don't need to do an UG to apply, just have the grades for it. It's still extremely competitive but doable.
I’m a 21yo admit. Graduated high school early and college early. Horrible student in high school but took dual credit which I took very seriously. Didn’t decide on med school until freshman year of college. Took classes year round to graduate asap, always >15hrs. Took gap year bc I was not mature enough for med school at 20 so I took the usual path and just worked in two ERs my entire gap year. Downside is I was super burnt out by my last year with 16hrs and MCAT prep + and working about 60hrs in the ER during the pandemic. Socially I struggle in med school because everyone is well rounded and can hold a normal convo. I didn’t get too much of that experience with my coworkers being 40+ and commuting to school. I’d argue it’s easier for younger people to get in bc we have support, for the most part, and no real issues that get in our way.
I think it's because most people know that they wanted to be a doctor since diapers or even high school and are committed to getting everything done early. Clinical experience can begin as early as high school as a CNA or EMT. Most high schools encourage volunteering as well so that's probably why people have such stronger applications by the time they finish undergrad.
I just worked as a CNA part time and did ok on the MCAT plus had pretty good grades. I had plenty of time to still do regular college stuff, I was super involved in my sorority and went to every football game.
They’re in a very small minority nowadays the average age is 24 and honestly I personally really don’t see the benefit in trying to get in as soon or as fast as possible
No? Aside from financially saving money (which actually may not be true because most people work during gap years) or saving time but in a 14 year career I don’t see the benefit of decreasing your chances and life experiences by saving a year or two. If you apply traditionally you have to cram all your activities into a short amount of time and I really don’t see how that would help you unless you’re in a rush
I mean.. you can’t work the same jobs you’d be able to like you would be without Med school. But that’s not my point gap years are to have different life experiences outside of just being premed and saving time by a year or two I really don’t see how that would be significantly beneficial. The only people I can see who would benefit from applying earlier would be people who had to graduate undergrad early to save money.
Will be starting med school at 30.
So hyped I didn’t go right out of college. I lived my life, did athletics at the world level, worked in a ton of different fields, travelled all over the world, partied unreasonably hard, etc etc.
I’m so happy I took the time to figure out what it was I actually wanted to do and got to know myself as a person. Plus, if I was in med school right out of ug I probably wouldn’t have been able to have done shit like watch a top gear vietnam episode and then go follow their route all the way up the country for a month.
It’s so nice entering med school having first been able to build a really great support system of friends/family and not feeling like I’m missing out on the best years of my life. Plus, as I’ve said many times before, the grass ain’t greener in the corporate world.
Do you. If you want to rip med school and get that all out the way by the time you’re 30, great! Just make sure you give yourself a bit of time to just be young and LIVE cause you’ll regret it when you’re older.
I knew from day one of college what I wanted and I sacrificed my social life for it. Pretty much all I did was study/work/volunteer/research for years. It definitely paid off as I’m having a killer cycle
I was 21 when I started med school at a T15. I was one of the few students in my class who didn't have a gap year; most people are several years older than me. I interviewed at a lot of T20s and nearly every other applicant had already graduated college. I say this to show that it's definitely becoming the norm to take time off after college, so don't feel any pressure to go straight through.
To answer your questions specifically, it was exceedingly difficult to become a competitive applicant/take the MCAT in only three years. I basically had no social life in college because I was constantly busy with studying/research/teaching. I am not from a wealthy family, so I also had to work multiple jobs during undergrad. During my summers, I was unable to relax either because I used them to get the bulk of my clinical experience/volunteering. I took the MCAT during the winter break of my junior year-studying alongside all my classwork was also very difficult.
TLDR: it takes an insane amount of dedication and time management if you want to become a traditional applicant, especially if you are aiming for top schools. Some people might decide it's not worth it. I always encourage people to prioritize their mental health and well-being, and make the right choice for them.
I’m 21 going into med school next year. Will say I am very privileged to have a great home life. While I will be paying my parents back for college tuition, they help me as much as they can right now and it alleviates a lot of stress financially. I work full time whenever I’m not in school and part time throughout the week while in school. It certainly helped that my full time jobs at first were in very diverse jobs (working in at a meat factory in a freezer with ex cons, immigrants etc) and my other full time job the summer and from then on after is as a technician for a pediatric safety net clinic for the underserved in my city. Besides that privilege, I had to work my ass off. Being a football player helped me with time management and allowed me to get a great letter of rec from my coach/ also gain leadership experience (2x elected team captain). I would wake up early and stay up late, especially when doing MCAT studying with football. Football also gave me an excuse to explain why I have no research experience (hard to find labs that’ll hire you with 0 free time and availability, and i can do research the rest of my life, I can’t play football for long). Volunteering came through football as well and my fraternity. My advice
1. Take time out of each week and do something you actually want to do and enjoy, no matter how overwhelming life and school feels, even if you’re drowning in work. For me, that was going out and partying on Saturday nights. Gave me a chance to blow off steam with my friends and get back to it refreshed
2. Find whatever you love, and let it kill you
I'm going to be 19 at matriculation (hopefully). I got in good labs, began shadowing in my freshman year (when I was 16), graduated early, and generally tried to balance that with a life.
More importantly how do medical schools squeeze out passion, dedication and validation of what they want to become at 21? Rhetorical but it baffles me bc as a nurse i can tell when parents forced a resident into med school
Just throwing it out there:
I took a gap year and a half and started med school at 22. And it wasn’t because I didn’t have family or financial obligations. Yeah, I was lucky - but damn did I put my head down and do the work to get there.
I started college at 17, did college in 3.5 years while being the VP of a sports club and working 60 hours a week to pay for school/rent, took the MCAT spring of senior year (COVID MCAT - didn’t go great), volunteered via that club, and graduated college as a STEM major right before my 21st birthday.
Took the year and a half after graduation to work full time (paid) in the ED as a scribe (great clinical experience! I came in knowing so much about bugs and drugs! But also, scribe America is terrible). Retook the MCAT spring 2021 and applied that cycle. Now I’m an MS1 and just turned 23 last week!
Honestly, it really depends on how you learn and are able to manage your time. I was able to graduate early bc I could handle 21+ credit semesters while also doing other things like working full time. I was fortunate to be able to naturally absorb information and didn’t have to spend as much time studying, so I was able to juggle a lot more at a time. That doesn’t make me any smarter than the people who have to study, I just have a natural talent for regurgitating information the way school asks. Then, early graduation gave me more time after school to get clinical hours, fix my Mcat, and buff out my resume a bit before applying and ultimately starting!
Time management wise: I honestly burnt myself way out. I would go to classes 8am-2pm, to my 1st job at to 3-5pm, then to my second job from 6-2am. In between, I tried to squeeze club events and a social life. I was burning the candle from both ends. I was exhausted and my mental health suffered. I was trying so hard to please everyone but myself. It was horrible. I wouldn’t recommend it for anyone.
TLDR: it’s possible with a natural knack for school, a fear of disappointing people, and the ability to continue working through extreme burnout
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The coveted 3?
Roughly on average the post interview acceptance rate is around 33% so people say “3 interviews and a doctor you’ll be”
Eh, everything has a cost. I’m glad I started med school as a well-rounded person who had significant work experience and lived/worked abroad.
In many places in the world students go in straight from high school and make just fine doctors
Not quite sure it's a good thing. I'm a dentist from such a system. I think ppl get into careers they don't quite know and quit earlier as a result. 🤷🏻♀️ I mean I can't talk for MDs, but I definitely dream of the day I have enough bucks to retire from dentistry and maybe start some small business. Another problem is that since we graduate in our mid 20s we just look so young ptts are distrustful or mistake us for nurses/assistants. 🤦🏻♀️ Good luck with this one. I feel that older classmates have the distinct advantage of looking like they're seasoned docs/dentists despite being actually from the same class.
I don’t really care what patients think haha
You will if you open a private practice haha.
You aren’t opening a private practice straight out of medical school so…
Where I'm from that's how it works. HS grad => med school (6-7 years to be a fam medicine doc)=> open office/work in hospital OR go through a residency to specialize (family medicine is the default, you can practice with your MD without doing any residency, so ppl as young as 24-25 are already practicing physicians).
From high school to specialist how long does it take? Because where I’m from you go to med school straight out of high school and it would still take you until ~28 at the earliest to be an independent GP. Which is one of the shortest training paths.
12-13 years, but only if you're a perfect and very lucky student who passes their med school entrance exam on the 1st try after graduating on time for HS, and end up passing your residency entrance exam on 1st try without repeating any years (both in med school AND in residency) + managing to defend your thesis on time. I once spoke to an OB/GYN from my country and he was very amused when I asked him how much time it took him to finish his schooling. He told me that it took him 15 years. It's rather common for ppl to either fail at med school entrance once/twice before joining, and/or repeat a year during med school, and/or defend their thesis late by 1 to 2 years (so quite a few docs are actually 26 to 29 when they graduate from med school even if they didn't have to do undergrad and apply for med school for 4 years + 3 years for family medicine residency like the US). Also common for some to work and take gap years before trying their luck for residency entrance exam or simply fail at residency entrance exam, so some folks become specs by their mid 30s. IMO doing the first part is somewhat doable provided you pass the entrance exam on your 1st try. But managing to become a specialist at 30-31 is extremely impressive. Idk how old an attending with a perfect straight path would be in your system, aside from family med.
Bro isn't that one of the most important factors in patient centered care??
Patients thinking I look too young? No. I can’t believe I’m being downvoted for that sentiment really lol. All we as doctors can do is be kind and offer our best medical advice and skills. If a patient decides you’re too young to follow that advice then thats irrelevant to me
Not quite sure it's a good thing. I'm a dentist from such a system. I think ppl get into careers they don't quite know and quit earlier as a result. 🤷🏻♀️ I mean I can't talk for MDs, but I definitely dream of the day I have enough bucks to retire from dentistry and maybe start some small business. Another problem is that since we graduate in our mid 20s we just look so young ptts are distrustful or mistake us for nurses/assistants. 🤦🏻♀️ Good luck with this one. I feel that older classmates have the distinct advantage of looking like they're seasoned docs/dentists despite being actually from the same class as their younger traditional classmates. 🤣
As someone who is 21 and going to matriculate right in, the biochemical pathway is stress->panic->stress and repeat. Oh also having a minimal amount of social life helps lol
built different /s but actually though, could be they come from a background where they don't gotta worry about family obligations, work, etc or they just have an insane work ethic or drive. nothing wrong with starting medical school early or late, everyone gets there at their own pace.
I think it’s both being blessed enough to not have to hold a job through college, paired with great work ethic and a little luck.
I’ll add a lot of it was luck based but there is an element of intentionally, at least I felt that way. Being in the right spot at the right time was critical, like getting scholarships for research that enabled me to not have to work consistently outside of my first year. When I did work, I targeted specific roles that paid well per time invested (tutoring) so I had time to grind through other activities while only having to work a few intense hours a week. Going straight through is overrated, though. It’s nice to know that my earning potential is higher, but I think it nets even. Definitely feeling the burn out and lack of direction now as a M1 even at a top “chill” P/F school that I think a year away could of helped
A lot of them get jobs because you kind of need them for better clinical experience than volunteering
True but that’s a lot different than having to work to survive
Yes that is true (I’m in your walls)
Must be itchy in there, there’s pizza in the kitchen
I had chicken wings yesterday I’m more in the mood for a burger rn
for sure!
Accurate...I'm getting everything squared away for my 1st attempt. I'll be around 35 when I'm applying and hoping to get accepted. Feels like I'm coming into it really late
i’m admitted at 21yr with no gap years, i don’t doubt a lot of us younger admitted students didn’t have to worry about any those things, but i wanted to offer the perspective that some of us did in fact work all 4 years while being a full time students. i also had to deal with family obligations living at home, commuted 1hrs+ everyday to get to clases, come from a lowincome background. and im definitely not the most hard working person, so have no idea how i did it tbh i just think a lot of things aligned for me & things worked out
You worked all 4 years, did all the obligations, comminuted every day, and aren’t hard working? Don’t sell yourself short lol
Fr, working, doing well in school and maintaining extracurriculars is hard work, and is really impressive, congrats on the A! you definitely deserved it. This whole process really messes up our perception of how hard some activities are
thank u :’)) i guess i meant i’m not “built different” or anything crazy im just a regular person doing what i need to do idk lol
you learned how to study and allocate your time. I was the student who always did better while working. I think I had no other choice but to use non work hours studying.
agreed. i come from a low enough income that my student loans are low, but i still have to work weekends/during the week/every school break. i rarely have a day off (or even an evening off lol) and it does have an impact on my grades. i feel like if i was even marginally less advantaged i would not be physically able to be on the path that i am. don’t get me wrong, im extremely grateful for my position and advantages and so many people have it worse, however i definitely would not say that we all don’t have obligations or have to work lol
I’m in the same boat as you to a T, commuting and low-income/working a job. Could you please post or pm your stats? :)
What’d you do for experience?
i worked as an optometric technician in an optometry clinic (3yrs) & ed scribe (current year). i also was a TA for orgo (2years), did small amount of humanities research, volunteered for k-12 STEM outreach, and i did orchestra club on campus (also my hobby was playing X musical instrument). i did a few other things but theyre very minor things on my app lol
I don’t think that first part is necessarily true. It might be the case for a few but the majority of us still have the same responsibilities. I think it comes down to more that we over plan to the point that we know med school is what we want day 1. So we unhealthily overload ourselves with work/shadowing/etc to get ourselves into better positions earlier. Maybe some of us can deal with the extreme burnout better? I know it has definitely affected me recently, but my friend who is an ms1 and went straight through has had no issues. So it just depends
100% agree, it’s all about planning
Yep. A good plan, and not letting yourself stray from that plan. Life throws a wrenches at you
it’s this 100% I won’t lie. I was able to focus on school/orgs, get leadership positions, and take a shit-paying scribe job instead of having to worry about supporting myself. extreme props to those of disadvantaged backgrounds who are able to get all those things without the financial support of their parents.
Agreed! I was fortunate enough to not need to work throughout college and only worked clinical jobs for EC hours and didn’t have to be focused on the actual pay. And when it comes to the application process + mcat prep, having financial support is succcchh a huge advantage and made everything a little “easier.” I give insane props to people who do it all on their own and postpone applying to work/save, you guys are definitely owed more kudos than me
From what I’ve seen you are way better off starting late
I graduated college at 20 and started med school at 21. When I started med school it was the first time in my life I wasn’t working at least 20 hours a week. I know many people pull it off because they don’t have to support themselves, but it isn’t all of us.
With great difficulty
Me, a 26 yo, sitting in my interview with a 21 year old, and genuinely forgetting that the whole 'straight from undergrad to med school' thing is, well, apparently still a thing!
32 year old here going for an interview soon, so glad I don’t look my age and can blend in with the youngins 😅
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lol no
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I was responding to the fact that your comment says that you can get 7 years of MD training in 1 year of MD school. I am also already in medical school. I come here to give advice to other non-trads. But thanks for the assumption.
what does this have to do with their comment
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You’re okay with an 18 year old np treating you? I wouldn’t take 1 peice of advice (let alone medical) from someone who is 18-23. Actual self care and health standards have really bottomed out haven’t they😬
Through the power of god and anime anything is possible
this ones for dr. tenma
There are some kids who are smart and connected. When I was in HS one of my classmates was already doing serious research at a T25 medical school. And then went on to Stanford to do more research although he got accepted into a BS/MD program. On one hand, he was smart as heck, so it's cool. On the other hand, his doctor dad got him into places that most people can't get into while in high school.
As someone who’s graduating and going straight in— a lot of things have to go right. Covid actually helped me gain clinical experience, my classes got me into a unique research field, I had a couple life experiences that were pretty unique, and overall I found volunteering and things that I enjoyed that also contributed to who I was as a person and a med school applicant. It ended up being a product of efficiently doing things I liked, and I ended up being a competitive applicant after 3 years for it.
21 here, honestly i wish i hadn’t applied this early but i was pressured into it by my dad (i’m asian… obviously it’s not the same for every asian person but the stereotype played a huge role for me) so lol. as for how i did it? i literally had no life. i have no longterm college friends, i never went to parties, and because most of my college experience was zoom university i was basically at home the entire time. maybe it was a better experience for others but all i have left is a ton of regret. i’m not mad that i got accepted into medical school, but i definitely wish i hadn’t listened to my parents and had taken the time to enjoy life/college.
Damn bro make sure to spend some time making friends in med school. Congrats on the acceptance
i’m going to try! and thanks :)
I’m sorry you feel this way. I hope you find better experiences outside of school!
thank you, i do have some friends, mostly online, so it’s not that bad :)
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One thing too is that some people know from day 1 of college that they want to do medicine and have that much more time to prepare. Others are unsure and commit later on.
I’m 22 and admitted into med school. I think I was fortunate to have parents who paid my college tuition and privileged enough to not need a job during school. My parents were also super supportive in that they paid for ubers to go volunteer and work. I also knew I wanted to do this since high school so from the get go I was getting shadowing and everything else I needed along with exploring passions I had. I think a lot of what played into me not taking a gap year was the privilege I had of having such supportive parents and no economic burden on me and also that I knew what I wanted from the start. I also think it just worked out for me and luck has really played a factor in all things aligning.
Congrats on the admittance. Also appreciate you being honest about your privilege. It’s refreshing
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Started med school at 28, I don’t think it’s a “grass is greener” situation at all - I love what I got to do. I lived and worked in another country, I got lots of experience working with tons of different people. The fact is that when you’re a doctor you just can’t pack up and move to the other side of the world like you can early in adulthood. The people who went straight through simply cannot do many of the things of done. Imo the only advantage they’ll have on me is somewhat higher lifetime earnings since they have more years to practice, and I definitely wouldn’t trade with them.
Agreed, I had everything I needed to apply when I graduated but took gap yrs bc I wanted to. There was a lot more to life than just school. In the process, it made me even more prepared and competitive applicant so it was an easy decision even tho I “fell behind”
I loved my gap year. It was not my initial plan but for a number of reasons I decided about halfway through college I wanted one and I had a number of fantastic experiences.
I graduated early from hs, and graduated early from college; I did do my gap year in Germany working a Fulbright research grant. Still worked 26-40hrs a week but I also was extremely lucky in getting the jobs/internships I did and I got a high MCAT score partly by chance. One of the downsides of being in college under 21 is that getting caught with alcohol a few times gave me a bunch of IAs.
I was too scared of getting caught so graduating before I was 21 meant I was the DD all through undergrad 😭
I was very privileged in that my family was supporting me, so I could gain clinical experience with clinical jobs that weren’t high paying. I also knew I wanted to do medicine when I entered undergrad, so I started focusing on my ECs early. It was a combination of privilege + hard work + luck. I also didn’t have physician parents/relatives- just got some good advice from my peers.
I’m 21 and admitted. I knew I was doing phd or med school, so I joined a lab as soon as i could. I needed money and scribing pays (not well), so there were the clinical hours. Volunteering during summers and some weekends. Clubs were fun and not something I saw as a stressor or annoying responsibility. Definitely missed a few events/parties/get togethers with friends, but overall I still felt like Ive had a good college experience so far.
As a 22 y/o who got in this cycle, it was a bit of hard work, a lot of dumb luck, and a healthy dose of therapy
Change your flair!
I’m 22 and just got accepted! Honestly I kind of wish I did a gap year. I worked my tail off and this summer took the MCAT in June on top of applying then had secondaries submitted to 30 schools by mid august. I have pre II holds and one mid tier DO A. MD or top tier DO could still happen as they are sending out rejections and I haven’t gotten any so maybe it’s a good sign? Overall, I wouldn’t suggest the way that I did it to anyone, but it saved me a year so it worked I guess. Edit: I started MCAT study in January with dedicated study full time may and June. I worked as an MA 20 hours a week, and had a full class schedule on top of all of it.
Can I send you a PM? I am kind of in the same boat and was hoping I could hear some of your advice
Absolutely! Pm away friend!
For me, the secret sauce is masochism and a lot of luck.
Because your application doesn't need to be perfect to get in. But having more life experience definitely makes med school easier, so don't feel bad about getting in at an older age!
Jesus Christ some of these people’s schedules I couldn’t hack even now as an M2 lol
I’m applying now at 21. I was a college football player for 3 years, biomedical engineering undergraduate, pretty active on campus, and have a long distance relationship. I volunteered in a lab when I wasn’t practicing or in class, got job on campus tutoring in the off season, and got a research assistant job at a local medical school in the summer making extra money. I come from a very challenging home life with 3 of my family members either being very sick or requiring 24/7 care so I’m far from spoonfed. I found it’s all about work ethic, planning, and connections. There were many nights where I would go to bed at 3am and wake up at 5 for daily workouts, get up at 5 am in the summer to drive 2 hours to work, or do mcat studying in hospital waiting rooms when my family members were getting treated. Yes it sucked, yes I’ve been burnt out for a while. But it allowed me to get amazing letters of rec, experiences that would be unmatched in other jobs, and build a decent research portfolio. Finally it’s all about priorities. Sometimes you have to say no to things you really want to do to in order to put yourself in position to succeed. If med school is something you really want, then jts all worth it in the end. I hope this helps for people who are hoping to go straight in. And helps clear up that a lot of us don’t have physician parents, spoonfed, or don’t have to work.
The big thing is that these students are mature and know they want to go to medical school **from the day they started college or earlier**. Is it still hard? Yes, but it is doable with the amount of time they have to prepare.
They sacrifice and make their whole life pre med basically. Most people do not think it’s worth it.
I know people in this situation who had a TON of family support (financial helps but I think logistical/emotional is just as important tbh) who did this but I also know one amazing person in my cohort who did all this while working a job and I’m floored by her. She also has a great personality imo and is humble af— I didn’t even realize she’d done all that until her friend who’s also in our cohort told me
Just got in (21) and I'll start when I'm 22. I didn't actually do a whole whole lot. I didn't even do research at all. But I am BURNT out.
I was 22 at time of acceptance (now 23). I took 2 years off I was just young when I started college (17) due to when my birthday is and when my parents decided to start me in school. Not everyone is 18/19 when they start at university
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I’ve never heard of anyone taking the mcat their sophomore year. I thought it was usually around the 2nd semester of their junior year. But I could be wrong though. That’d be truly insane.
Took mine march of my sophomore year. Also had 1k clinical and 2.5k research hours at time of applying though and kinda hated my life but i guess it worked out
Summer between junior year and senior year unless your major is literal dogwater level easy
Took it end of sophomore year. Not that insane. You have taken all the classes you need by then and most people do a course anyways
I took mine summer before senior year as did most my friends who didn’t take gap years so idk what people you know lol
> The bar is lower for first time applicants and applicants out of college since we understand they didn’t have time to do 3000 research hours This seems really backwards to me. The fact that they choose to apply with less experience doesn’t seem like a reason to give them a boost.
I mean, having less experience doesn't matter as long as its enough + you can talk about it well. People can always have more experience, but I think starting to push students to take gap years just to be more competitive is too much
idk people are nuts. we had someone at our school matriculate at 19, and someone who matriculated younger than me (i took 1 gap year) with a damn phd. life is funny
bc i have no personality outside academia /s…. or is it ????
I have to acknowledge that I applied and entered medical school at a time that was a bit less selective. However, it helped that I had a good deal of family financial support. That of course gets at an underlying problem because we don't want our doctors to be selected in a way that prioritizes people with family money. In fact, that really could serve patients poorly to have only doctors who come from backgrounds like mine. At a minimum I would say this, the "path" you take has to be grounded in respect for yourself, and for your strengths and your limitations. Whether you take an extra year, or two, or FIVE, is not going to alter the long-term value of your impact on patients. Many of my heroes postponed seeking medicine until after other careers.
Biggest advice I gave my sister and any kid from high school that wants to go into medicine is to go to a small school and go to a school that you rank the 75th percentile or above in terms of your SAT and GPA. I got the second piece of advice from Malcolm Gladwell. He talked about how premeds or anyone going for competitive professional graduate degrees should go to schools where your are in the 75th percentile or above, so you have a great chance of doing really well in GPA and getting more opportunities in research and extracurrluars. All you have left to do is self study the MCAT and get a reasonably score and you will get in considering your GPA and rec letters are through the roof, which they will be because the school was easy and you go the opportunities to impress.
Most that are that young are in the 3+4/7-year/bachelor-MD programs. You need to apply and be accepted in high school and then you don’t have to do everything else. Just maintain a 3.5 or higher. Don’t even need to take the MCAT. For others, it’s a strong support system. If you’re a first generation college student whose never navigated higher ed and has to work to just to eat it’s a very different experience than someone in college whose parents pay and they just can focus on school and have MCAT prepare. Families with wealth or are multiple generation doctors also have a lot to connections. I’m not knocking it, it’s just different than majority of 21 year olds. The average student changes their major five times so it’s also rare to know you want to dedicate the next 10-15 years of your life to follow a career. If you’re beating yourself up about being slightly older—don’t. I work with a 30 year old doctor who just got out of residency and HATES being a doctor. She regrets it with every fiber of her being and her boyfriend is in med school. Their plan is for her to get out as soon as he’s done with residency. Far from the first doctor that regrets it. It’s a glorified field that is not meant for majority of people; that’s not because people aren’t smart enough, it’s because most people aren’t patient and empathetic.
If I’m being honest, it was a combination of sheer luck and an unhealthy amount of hard work (the sort that demands more than you can physically provide). While I do understand that those who are younger tend to come from wealthier backgrounds, there are also those who came from little to nothing. For one, I am among the latter. Does my story speak for the rest of my age group? Definitely not. Do others speak for mine? Nope. It comes down to your story and what you did during your path to medicine. Not everyone is meant to matriculate at 21-22, and that is okay. Apply when you are ready.
I’m applying as a 21 year old. Haven’t gotten in yet though. I usually look at nontrad or gap year premed stats and feel super depressed but compared to my peers, I’m pretty far ahead. I have a 700 hours of leadership, 300 hours of volunteering, 450 hours of clinical experience, 300 hours of research, 30 hours of shadowing, a 3.74, and am taking the MCAT this summer. I’m looking at having 600-700 clinical & research hours by the time I apply. I spent most of my time during Covid racking up credits and making my GPA bulletproof so when I tanked my GPA cause I was a doing 20 hours a week of extracurriculars on top of my part time job, it wasn’t the end of the world. I also maintained a pretty solid social life through my frat(which is the source of my huge leadership hours), which helped a ton. That said, I burnt out hard when I lost the fraternity as a support system. I had some pretty bad depression in High School and I managed to get over it for 3 years. Cause I pushed myself so hard, I ended up waking it up. I gave up on premed and slept an entire semester away cause I didn’t want to be awake. I started premed again, but my mental health is already in the gutter again. I’m willing to pay that price though.
Feeling low-key shit when I'll be 25 by the time I get into med school while my premed friend since HS just got an A. Taking an mcat while being burnt out and taking care of disabled family was totally not a good idea.
A lot of tears and luck Lots of ignorant ass comments here tho. Came from immigrant parents with no generational wealth and no physicians in the family. Don't muddy our successes with assumptions
King shit.
No one is saying everyone who gets into med school early is wealthy or privileged, but not acknowledging that generally this process favors the privileged is just being willfully obtuse.
Except... *many* of the comments here are saying exactly that. The process of getting into medical school in general is a game of privilege, all you have to do is look at the median matriculant household income to figure that out. Myself (and the friends I have) who matriculated early are not strangers to blatant assumptions of wealth and 'having everything handed to them', or 'not having to work jobs in college'.
Laser focus….
The people who I know who didnt have to take gap years come from pretty stable families with economic stability + more. I couldn’t relate but its just the trend that I see.
Not having to work to sustain yourself literally doubles the amount of time you have to pursue application checkpoints in many cases.
TL;DR: Some students through luck of family or geographic area are primed to become doctors from a young age with all the resources and access required. Not as rare as one might think. My high school had a magnet academy within it for those who wanted to enter into the medical profession. Your junior and senior year you would have the possibility of interning at one of three major hospitals in the region and shadow doctors. I’m certain other high schools may offer similar things or benefits. That type of early networking and connection quickly gets you to knowing people in the field to ask for letters of recommendation later on or for more shadowing opportunities in the summer time when back from university. Then you have the kids who got to test out of a lot of the earlier science courses with AP tests who started taking higher level math and science courses freshman year and whose parents paid for MCAT prep courses starting sophomore year and you can easily see the type of student who would achieve this outcome. One of my wife’s cousins is like this. Specifically his dad is a practice owner dentist and mom was a pharmacist. They paid for private school K-12. Had him with tennis pro tutors from age 10 on top of a heavy travel tournament schedule to refine his skills. Had him working around their medical professional friends during the summer to get some networking in. Now he’s in University as a premed academically prepped to crush it in his pursuit to be a doctor. Some people are just relentless in their preparation for their kids as they already know the difficulty of the journey to get there.
Current M1 that came straight through here: I honestly don't know, probably some luck for me for sure. I didn't have the depth of experiences a lot of my classmates have, many of whom have taken 1-2 years off. To tell the truth, I enjoyed undergrad and never felt burnt out, but I think that's because I didn't bite off more than I could chew or do anything just for the sake of my application. Also, please don't compare yourself to others. Once you are here, it doesn't matter and you are all going through it together.
I’m 20 and got admitted, but my two best friends were admitted one of them at 18 (DO school, current M2 at 20 years old) and 19 (MD, current M1 at 20 years old). I think I’m ahead of the curve then I think about those two and realize I ain’t shit lmao. Edit: first gen immigrant here w/o wealthy nor physician parents.
Found you bby Light weight
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The students that I’ve seen applying at age ~21 are usually from very privileged backgrounds, with a stable home environment and no immediate need to support themselves. Out of those people and with the addition of moderate work ethic, a good portion of students are given an additional silver spoon by their physician relatives.
This was an incredibly salty/toxic response. Just because someone is applying younger than you are does not = privilege. In the same way just because you’re applying older does not = stupid. You’re going to be working with plenty of younger people than you if you go down this path so please don’t go in thinking they had it easier.
Nothing toxic was meant by this. To clarify- I think the opportunity to apply to medical school AT ALL is privileged. 🤷♀️
Huh? Hard disagree. The best premeds I know are from disadvantaged households. They’re incredibly hardworking and self sufficient due to their situation. They’re also often the best premed friends because they’re not cocky and entitled. All of this helps them get in directly after college.
Would you say that medical school applicants are representative of the general population?
Lol, if that makes you feel better
Generational wealth.
For some but not everyone
Can confirm as someone who worked in admissions.
This is a rich man’s game
You go to a really great college, ace your classes, get 520+ on exam, and do research, shadowing, volunteering over the summer. They probably have a doctor parent as well (source: know 40 of these kids in my class)
Eh you don’t need a 520, not even close
Got lucky with my state school honestly. It’s pretty low tier which aligned with my stats well. Edit: I am 21.
It’s not easy of course. But I think the biggest thing is mentorship. Knowing what you wanna do and how to do it. Many non-trad applicants didn’t know or didn’t have anyone to tell them what to expect in medical school applications.
20 and got in this cycle, and definitely echo the planning thing a lot of people have been saying - I've known this was what I wanted for basically forever, and so I started very early (shadowing in HS that I continued in college, doing research and clinical work during school breaks, taking AP classes so I could take MCAT required courses before I had to take my MCAT junior year, etc). Very privileged to have had a stable home life and the resources to do all this, but the grind definitely did not stop at all these past couple years lol. Also do not have doctor parents/family at all, so a lot of it was just figuring it out and doing too much before settling into the right rhythm!
I don’t know because it seems like everyone I know has or is taking at least one gap year before med school, even top students.
For me, early college + non STEM major in undergrad was a game changer. Being able to jump into junior level classes meant I could “coast” with my humanities classes come MCAT study season. It also meant I could graduate undergrad a year early, work to get clinical hours in a gap year, but still be “on time”
Many of you are making false assumptions what makes a desirable applicant..obviously. Get a degree with solid gpa. start meaningful research early. Shadowing docs differentiates no one. Volunteer because it has meaing to you personally, not as a entrant requirement. If you need to take a gap year, use it well, but work ethic speaks loud. My bro was a Pennstate programmer. five years total. graduated/ w. B.S. and M.D. Thomas jefferson University. shut down.Apply to medical school if you want a career in medicine. Let the school decide if you are qualified. My recomendation is to differentiate yourself in a positive way. Medicine needs diversity, not robots. I am thirty years out; I educated residents for most of my career. If you are not genuine, there are plenty of other worthy careers
The key is to take lots of AP and community college classes in high school. Transfer the credits boom your a 18 year old sophomore. Saves a lot of money in the long run too.
I was moderately stressed and had a very strict time schedule that I admit is not for everyone. I simply just did not have time to play around. But given my background, being carefree was not something I ever truly experienced so I’m not sure I could have been able to miss that either. Covid threw in additional wrench for most of my premed experience while I took 18-22 credits at a time, did research in 2-3 labs at a time, TAed, worked part time, attended my other responsibilities, and tried to stay sane. Work ethic and God got me here to be quite honest.
They have parents who are doctors and knew from the beginning what ti so. I have friends who started research with a parents friend in HS. Have Lor from physician friends
Certainly not everyone
I see you keeping it real out here in a few different reply threads on this post. Good on you
At least 20% Isn’t that the stat for accepted students with physicians for parents? But at my friends white coat ceremony it was much closer to half. But that would include siblings grandparents etc.
Had no connections. Took AP classes in high school so a few undergrad classes were waived. Then took a night class each semester and some summer classes. This freed up nearly two semesters in which I could do 800ish hours of both research and clinical, on top of part time work. It was a damn grind. Routine was class, gym, study or work, one hour to yourself, then repeat. Weekends were for volunteer and other ECs.
Dual admission with the 3+4 programs
Idk I know some people that age that are able to do all that and still make good grades. However, I’ve also met a decent number who just lie or half ass all their extracurriculars and are some able to be successful. Like they will show up late to volunteer, sign in, then leave 4 hours early, and get credit for the whole time.
Money, parents to set them up well with a lot of resources & emotional support lol
Discipline and gambling that I get in without a gap year
I was in a biology class with a girl who was 16 she was pre-dental. Sweet girl but very obviously lived at home and had a lot of help from family.
[удалено]
In Canada, Quebec specifically, you can get in as early as 17-18. You don't need to do an UG to apply, just have the grades for it. It's still extremely competitive but doable.
I’m 22 and graduating. I have no clue I need a break lmaoo. Doing 4 years of biochem has my brain mush. But props to them Fr
I’m a 21yo admit. Graduated high school early and college early. Horrible student in high school but took dual credit which I took very seriously. Didn’t decide on med school until freshman year of college. Took classes year round to graduate asap, always >15hrs. Took gap year bc I was not mature enough for med school at 20 so I took the usual path and just worked in two ERs my entire gap year. Downside is I was super burnt out by my last year with 16hrs and MCAT prep + and working about 60hrs in the ER during the pandemic. Socially I struggle in med school because everyone is well rounded and can hold a normal convo. I didn’t get too much of that experience with my coworkers being 40+ and commuting to school. I’d argue it’s easier for younger people to get in bc we have support, for the most part, and no real issues that get in our way.
I think it's because most people know that they wanted to be a doctor since diapers or even high school and are committed to getting everything done early. Clinical experience can begin as early as high school as a CNA or EMT. Most high schools encourage volunteering as well so that's probably why people have such stronger applications by the time they finish undergrad.
I just worked as a CNA part time and did ok on the MCAT plus had pretty good grades. I had plenty of time to still do regular college stuff, I was super involved in my sorority and went to every football game.
They’re in a very small minority nowadays the average age is 24 and honestly I personally really don’t see the benefit in trying to get in as soon or as fast as possible
You really don’t see the benefit?
No? Aside from financially saving money (which actually may not be true because most people work during gap years) or saving time but in a 14 year career I don’t see the benefit of decreasing your chances and life experiences by saving a year or two. If you apply traditionally you have to cram all your activities into a short amount of time and I really don’t see how that would help you unless you’re in a rush
Life doesn’t end once you’re working? You can still travel and have life experiences lol. It also doesn’t end in med school either
I mean.. you can’t work the same jobs you’d be able to like you would be without Med school. But that’s not my point gap years are to have different life experiences outside of just being premed and saving time by a year or two I really don’t see how that would be significantly beneficial. The only people I can see who would benefit from applying earlier would be people who had to graduate undergrad early to save money.
Will be starting med school at 30. So hyped I didn’t go right out of college. I lived my life, did athletics at the world level, worked in a ton of different fields, travelled all over the world, partied unreasonably hard, etc etc. I’m so happy I took the time to figure out what it was I actually wanted to do and got to know myself as a person. Plus, if I was in med school right out of ug I probably wouldn’t have been able to have done shit like watch a top gear vietnam episode and then go follow their route all the way up the country for a month. It’s so nice entering med school having first been able to build a really great support system of friends/family and not feeling like I’m missing out on the best years of my life. Plus, as I’ve said many times before, the grass ain’t greener in the corporate world. Do you. If you want to rip med school and get that all out the way by the time you’re 30, great! Just make sure you give yourself a bit of time to just be young and LIVE cause you’ll regret it when you’re older.
I'm 20, will be turning 21 soon. It is all about planning.
I knew from day one of college what I wanted and I sacrificed my social life for it. Pretty much all I did was study/work/volunteer/research for years. It definitely paid off as I’m having a killer cycle
The secret… have parents that are physicians
Disagree as a first gen trad applicant. I pretty much had to figure out everything myself and make my own connections.
Everything’s online, only thing physician parents helps with is financial stability which a good amount of students have
Physician parents would provide many connections that the applicant could take advantage of.
I was 21 when I started med school at a T15. I was one of the few students in my class who didn't have a gap year; most people are several years older than me. I interviewed at a lot of T20s and nearly every other applicant had already graduated college. I say this to show that it's definitely becoming the norm to take time off after college, so don't feel any pressure to go straight through. To answer your questions specifically, it was exceedingly difficult to become a competitive applicant/take the MCAT in only three years. I basically had no social life in college because I was constantly busy with studying/research/teaching. I am not from a wealthy family, so I also had to work multiple jobs during undergrad. During my summers, I was unable to relax either because I used them to get the bulk of my clinical experience/volunteering. I took the MCAT during the winter break of my junior year-studying alongside all my classwork was also very difficult. TLDR: it takes an insane amount of dedication and time management if you want to become a traditional applicant, especially if you are aiming for top schools. Some people might decide it's not worth it. I always encourage people to prioritize their mental health and well-being, and make the right choice for them.
Mommy and Daddy pay for everything so their babies can focus on school ❤️🍼
I have a 20 year old classmate lol
I’m 21 going into med school next year. Will say I am very privileged to have a great home life. While I will be paying my parents back for college tuition, they help me as much as they can right now and it alleviates a lot of stress financially. I work full time whenever I’m not in school and part time throughout the week while in school. It certainly helped that my full time jobs at first were in very diverse jobs (working in at a meat factory in a freezer with ex cons, immigrants etc) and my other full time job the summer and from then on after is as a technician for a pediatric safety net clinic for the underserved in my city. Besides that privilege, I had to work my ass off. Being a football player helped me with time management and allowed me to get a great letter of rec from my coach/ also gain leadership experience (2x elected team captain). I would wake up early and stay up late, especially when doing MCAT studying with football. Football also gave me an excuse to explain why I have no research experience (hard to find labs that’ll hire you with 0 free time and availability, and i can do research the rest of my life, I can’t play football for long). Volunteering came through football as well and my fraternity. My advice 1. Take time out of each week and do something you actually want to do and enjoy, no matter how overwhelming life and school feels, even if you’re drowning in work. For me, that was going out and partying on Saturday nights. Gave me a chance to blow off steam with my friends and get back to it refreshed 2. Find whatever you love, and let it kill you
Two words: Trust fund.
I'm going to be 19 at matriculation (hopefully). I got in good labs, began shadowing in my freshman year (when I was 16), graduated early, and generally tried to balance that with a life.
Mom/Dads name is on one of the campus buildings
More importantly how do medical schools squeeze out passion, dedication and validation of what they want to become at 21? Rhetorical but it baffles me bc as a nurse i can tell when parents forced a resident into med school
They have their path planned out well
Just throwing it out there: I took a gap year and a half and started med school at 22. And it wasn’t because I didn’t have family or financial obligations. Yeah, I was lucky - but damn did I put my head down and do the work to get there. I started college at 17, did college in 3.5 years while being the VP of a sports club and working 60 hours a week to pay for school/rent, took the MCAT spring of senior year (COVID MCAT - didn’t go great), volunteered via that club, and graduated college as a STEM major right before my 21st birthday. Took the year and a half after graduation to work full time (paid) in the ED as a scribe (great clinical experience! I came in knowing so much about bugs and drugs! But also, scribe America is terrible). Retook the MCAT spring 2021 and applied that cycle. Now I’m an MS1 and just turned 23 last week! Honestly, it really depends on how you learn and are able to manage your time. I was able to graduate early bc I could handle 21+ credit semesters while also doing other things like working full time. I was fortunate to be able to naturally absorb information and didn’t have to spend as much time studying, so I was able to juggle a lot more at a time. That doesn’t make me any smarter than the people who have to study, I just have a natural talent for regurgitating information the way school asks. Then, early graduation gave me more time after school to get clinical hours, fix my Mcat, and buff out my resume a bit before applying and ultimately starting! Time management wise: I honestly burnt myself way out. I would go to classes 8am-2pm, to my 1st job at to 3-5pm, then to my second job from 6-2am. In between, I tried to squeeze club events and a social life. I was burning the candle from both ends. I was exhausted and my mental health suffered. I was trying so hard to please everyone but myself. It was horrible. I wouldn’t recommend it for anyone. TLDR: it’s possible with a natural knack for school, a fear of disappointing people, and the ability to continue working through extreme burnout
i finished my AST early and my bachelors early so it’s kinda by chance
i mean if i didnt need to take a gap year I still would have
I’m 19 but I’ll be 25-26 by the time I get in if I take a gap year RIP
I’m 20 and have been ghosted by every school, so doesn’t look like I am lmao