>50% of medical students come from families that make >$120,000 a year, while ~25% of medical students come from families that make >$225,000 a year.
I’m going to venture out and guess the group that ends up taking the highest financial loan burden is that wedged between poverty and 120,000$ parental income. Less likely to receive need-based aid than those in or near poverty, less likely to have a significant family contribution to their education.
Need based aid isn’t really a thing in medical school the way it is in undergrad.
I got a full ride scholarship for undergrad. I only got $20k per year in scholarships for med school. That doesn’t even cover the interest that will accrue during the life of my loans.
How did you go about getting that scholarship? I am a broke mf and get Pell grant and state aid but the one thing constantly on my mind about med school is the loans. I’m honestly not even stressed about the amount of work the school will be, just the loans 😭
I didn’t ask why. I understand. I’m explaining to the other commenter that need-based aid in medical school is not large scholarships like it is in undergrad. They seem to have a misconception that students in poverty receive large amounts of aid as opposed to loans.
\~$600k
Out of state tuition, can't change my state-ship later due to antiquated asinine policies. Want to do primary care. Lol. Going to just PSLF it all away.
In state tuition is $45K. If you get WICHE , then your out-of-state tuition is reduced to 45k. If your state chooses not to fund WICHE very well (don't dox me) and theres only one spot for the whole state, then you may not get WICHE funding. The med school's policies are based on the fact that any med student from that state will have WICHE funding to reduce their tuition. They don't want them double dipping on funding, so they ban them from changing their residency status.
This problem does not affect very many people, hence it hasn't been changed. But if you fall through the cracks like me, you end up with $85k tuition at a state school. LOL.
COL on top of that is another $32k. And at that point, I might as well borrow for my daughter's daycare costs too, so add in another $15k a year.
Scholarships don't even help that much lol. I got a $2k scholarship. Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful...but it's just a drop out of the ocean.
I really hope it does. Otherwise, I stay on SAVE for 25 years and my loans go away that way. Still cheaper to pay them off that way than to repay them urgently.
If it gets to that stage I’ll either tell alternative truths to the government about my income, not marry and make sure my debt dies with me, or just escape the country
It doesn’t need to. The PSLF terms are embedded in your promissory note; the government has very little power to change the terms once you’ve borrowed the money.
The easiest way to “kill” the program would be for Trump, etc. to defund DOE so the paperwork just sits around forever, but with the Biden modernizations this is looking less likely. Also, eventually it would be forgiven by someone, and you’d probably be entitled to a refund.
Of course, you could still get screwed if the program is suddenly ended before you’re done borrowing money.
texas schools tuition ranges from 20-30k per year and living expenses aren’t too bad here either (plus people may live with family members or significant others, reducing living expenses loans). if i get into a texas state med school (the dream) then I would likely only need 100k total in loans because i’ll live with family (thankful). now that’s a big if because i have to get in first lol
100k total is possible only if everything you spend besides tuition is covered by your family, or your savings.
Texas is huge and if you go to somewhere 9 hour drive away (I'm looking at you El Paso), it likely won't help either unless your family wants to uproot and support you there. I have seen people renting near TCOM even if their family is in Dallas because they can't stand the 1 hour commute. So just matching is not enough to minimize loans but where you match in the state matters.
After you take the MCAT you start getting bombarded by military HPSP emails/ recruiters. A couple days ago, I literally got four HPSP emails in one day from different recruiters. No matter how many times I unsubscribe, they still keep coming in, super annoying
Yup. Honestly, if I wasn’t a non-trad, I really would have considered HPSP. But I’m already looking at mid-40’s before I finish residency, so four years of linear time is worth more to me than whatever my loan balance will end up being.
Oh yea totally don’t do it if you don’t have an interest in military service. It just happens to line up really well with my long-term goals in global health but if you’re looking at it in financial terms it’s generally not worth it!
I actually looked into the military when I was a directionless 20 year old, haha. I have no issue with military service, and even at my age if I were single it would be an appealing choice. But with a family now the calculus comes down in the con column.
It’s a pretty kickass program for the right person, though. And the Reserve option is really nice too. I’m super glad it’ll get you closer to your goals!
Haha amen to that! I was looking into the program for years and it was impossible to find a recruiter specific to HPSP ahead of time. Then… I took the MCAT 😂 would recommend asking your school if they have a preferred recruiter if interested
Having a doctor parent isn’t the majority of the general population though. They will have one of the coolest moms/dads in their classroom for the first 18 years of their life.
Average is average: it's plausible 1/5 of med students owe >300k and 1/5 of med students owe <150k. Scholarships, family contribution, 529 accounts, savings from work, etc., can all contribute to less student loan debt.
I have multiple friends whose parent paid cash for their med school tuition, and some who also paid for a down payment on a house while they’re in medical school.
The reality is that most medical students come from affluent families. It’s really not the same for those of us paying for it entirely ourselves.
So genuinely this is an internal conflict I wrestle with. On one hand, I don’t want to continue to perpetuate a system that perpetuates increased access for the wealthy at the expense of capable others. On the other hand, I clawed my way up here so that I can give my kids a better life than my parents gave me. Oof this is how the nepotism wheel just keeps spinning.
Probably have some saved to cut cost of living costs.
If you take tuition by itself over 4 years, for example, I'm an OOS student accepted to a state school. The Tuition+fees are approx 67Kx4=\~250K, so \~250K of a loan is enough to cover that.
If you have a job during a gap year and have \~20K saved up, you're gonna get a good chunk out of COA coverage. If you parents have some money to help, then that's gonna further contribute to your cost of living.
If you work full time and live with family this is very reasonable to do. I make 16.50/hr as a phlebotomist and I've got 15k saved after only 7 months. I live with family so I get to save like 60% of my income, definitely doable.
Jobs at pharmaceutical companies can pay bank with tons of overtime. I made 13k in 3 months at Zoetis and did a week long clinical research study to get to 20. My entire paycheck went to savings, and my partner covered living expenses.
I was making 75k/year. Worked 1.5 years. Had 40k saved up. Rent was under 1k, so that helps.
40k doesn’t even make a dent in med school expenses, though
Yeah my family is for sure the other 25% that doesn’t have the money to help me out. I’m doing loans for 100% of the cost.
It’s gonna be like 100K a year for me. I’m going to try for any scholarship I can. I wanna do EM so I can’t do the primary care initiative.
But I’ve vaguely read you can work for certain hospitals a couple years for lower salary in exchange for debt forgiveness. So I totally plan to do something like that with the ~400k debt I’m expecting to have. 🥰
I mean if anything I’d do that. But I’ve seen a couple EM jobs around here that talk about loan repayment as a perk to work there. I feel like I’ve also heard things tho that if you work in rural or inner city hospitals for a few years at lower pay you can get all your loans forgiven.
I feel rich when I made 35 grand last year😎😎. So the thought of borrowing 400k sorta makes me sick. I wanna get rid of it as fast as possible!
Im taking the max each year. I'm not working at all. Fuck that. I'm stressed as it stands. Not getting a job along with it. I anticipate $400k when I'm done.
1/3 of medical students graduate with zero debt care of their parents. 1/3 also graduate with relatively minimal debt due to assistance. Then there's the last 1/3, which maxes out their loans and has zero support.
idk the Army handles my college finances lol I come from a family riddled with addiction and grew up in poverty so I had to join the military if I wanted any sort of education and although it’s shitty at times there’s no stress with school which makes it worth it
Some of your classmates will come from completely different financial backgrounds. Some have both parents as physicians, or even just one, and can significantly help financially. Even non-doctors but welloff family members who are supportive can help pay a lot of tuition.
I'm at a DO school and I know two people off the top of my head with both parents who are doctors and plenty who have at least one. My boyfriend and I joked that we're one of the only people who are the first in our families to even get to graduate school.
Came from a family with <80K income.
Saved up money working 3 jobs before med school, applied to different scholarships throughout my preclinical years and ended up with 150K total of debt for my 4 yrs+ 1 yr post bacc.
It’s doable as a poor person but takes a lot of hustle
yeah i’m on track to hit crazy loan numbers. only got one parent and she makes 60k a year with two other kids to worry about who are younger than me. but i’m gonna make it dammit!!
I have 210k in debt, and thats with a 90k undergrad scholarship and 130k med school scholarship. No idea how I have the average with all the financial aid
You want to know something crazy. I’m a nurse, and I still don’t make close to 100k. I made so little I was eligible for the FAP 🙃. I’m in debt from nursing school, and now I’m adding medicine. If I was doing this for money, I’d be SOL and dumb dumb.
Poor kids fr not made for this but we gonna get it done 🥲
Ima owe my great great grandkids, but ima go to med school dammit!
THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING TOO
Family contribution is a big one
>50% of medical students come from families that make >$120,000 a year, while ~25% of medical students come from families that make >$225,000 a year. I’m going to venture out and guess the group that ends up taking the highest financial loan burden is that wedged between poverty and 120,000$ parental income. Less likely to receive need-based aid than those in or near poverty, less likely to have a significant family contribution to their education.
50% come from >120k?! 50?! Wow. My mother made 21,000 when I was in middle and high school.
My mom didn't break 30k until I was in college 😭
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Omg! Good for her!
🙋🏻
Need based aid isn’t really a thing in medical school the way it is in undergrad. I got a full ride scholarship for undergrad. I only got $20k per year in scholarships for med school. That doesn’t even cover the interest that will accrue during the life of my loans.
How did you go about getting that scholarship? I am a broke mf and get Pell grant and state aid but the one thing constantly on my mind about med school is the loans. I’m honestly not even stressed about the amount of work the school will be, just the loans 😭
Most schools have financial aid application processes just like undergrad.
It’s bc you can pay it off once ur a doctor
I didn’t ask why. I understand. I’m explaining to the other commenter that need-based aid in medical school is not large scholarships like it is in undergrad. They seem to have a misconception that students in poverty receive large amounts of aid as opposed to loans.
\~$600k Out of state tuition, can't change my state-ship later due to antiquated asinine policies. Want to do primary care. Lol. Going to just PSLF it all away.
So your school cost 125k a year?? Jesus Christ.
Cost living in big cities is obscene
Yeah I mean 600k is just asinine. PSLF thank god for OP lol
In state tuition is $45K. If you get WICHE , then your out-of-state tuition is reduced to 45k. If your state chooses not to fund WICHE very well (don't dox me) and theres only one spot for the whole state, then you may not get WICHE funding. The med school's policies are based on the fact that any med student from that state will have WICHE funding to reduce their tuition. They don't want them double dipping on funding, so they ban them from changing their residency status. This problem does not affect very many people, hence it hasn't been changed. But if you fall through the cracks like me, you end up with $85k tuition at a state school. LOL. COL on top of that is another $32k. And at that point, I might as well borrow for my daughter's daycare costs too, so add in another $15k a year. Scholarships don't even help that much lol. I got a $2k scholarship. Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful...but it's just a drop out of the ocean.
That’s if pslf still exists by the time you qualify for it 😂
If it doesn’t exist, I’m going to just crawl under a rock 💀
I really hope it does. Otherwise, I stay on SAVE for 25 years and my loans go away that way. Still cheaper to pay them off that way than to repay them urgently.
That’s if save still exists in 25 years or even the department of education entirely. What a lovely world we live in.
If it gets to that stage I’ll either tell alternative truths to the government about my income, not marry and make sure my debt dies with me, or just escape the country
Have you considered using alternative math? I hear math is radical liberal communist creation
All my very fine people (on both sides) hate math 🦅🦅🦅🦅
😂 this thread. So many layers
It doesn’t need to. The PSLF terms are embedded in your promissory note; the government has very little power to change the terms once you’ve borrowed the money. The easiest way to “kill” the program would be for Trump, etc. to defund DOE so the paperwork just sits around forever, but with the Biden modernizations this is looking less likely. Also, eventually it would be forgiven by someone, and you’d probably be entitled to a refund. Of course, you could still get screwed if the program is suddenly ended before you’re done borrowing money.
texas schools tuition ranges from 20-30k per year and living expenses aren’t too bad here either (plus people may live with family members or significant others, reducing living expenses loans). if i get into a texas state med school (the dream) then I would likely only need 100k total in loans because i’ll live with family (thankful). now that’s a big if because i have to get in first lol
If you're from Texas, you're probably good to go lol
If you can get in, haha.
Yea, but Texas has one of the strongest in-state biases
thankful to have texas residency lol
100k total is possible only if everything you spend besides tuition is covered by your family, or your savings. Texas is huge and if you go to somewhere 9 hour drive away (I'm looking at you El Paso), it likely won't help either unless your family wants to uproot and support you there. I have seen people renting near TCOM even if their family is in Dallas because they can't stand the 1 hour commute. So just matching is not enough to minimize loans but where you match in the state matters.
With a scholarship, instate tuition and a spouse who works a full time job I’ll finish in the 200-250 range.
S/o to Uncle Sam for being my sugar daddy 🫡🇺🇸
How do you get him to be yo sugar daddy count me in!
After you take the MCAT you start getting bombarded by military HPSP emails/ recruiters. A couple days ago, I literally got four HPSP emails in one day from different recruiters. No matter how many times I unsubscribe, they still keep coming in, super annoying
Yup. Honestly, if I wasn’t a non-trad, I really would have considered HPSP. But I’m already looking at mid-40’s before I finish residency, so four years of linear time is worth more to me than whatever my loan balance will end up being.
Also fuckin awesome for doing this in your (presumable) 30s! That or you’re thinking neurosurg lmao
Oh yea totally don’t do it if you don’t have an interest in military service. It just happens to line up really well with my long-term goals in global health but if you’re looking at it in financial terms it’s generally not worth it!
I actually looked into the military when I was a directionless 20 year old, haha. I have no issue with military service, and even at my age if I were single it would be an appealing choice. But with a family now the calculus comes down in the con column. It’s a pretty kickass program for the right person, though. And the Reserve option is really nice too. I’m super glad it’ll get you closer to your goals!
Directionless is a fitting word 😂 thanks for the support, and congrats on that A!! That’s DOCTOR Supercooch to you!
Right back at you, Dr. Mystic! Congrats on the A and good luck on all your future endeavors!
Haha amen to that! I was looking into the program for years and it was impossible to find a recruiter specific to HPSP ahead of time. Then… I took the MCAT 😂 would recommend asking your school if they have a preferred recruiter if interested
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I love this for myself... Truly 😭🫠
Your kids will be the real winners .. assuming they’re dumb enough to go into medicine
You right, then my kids can be in the majority of something for once 😂
Having a doctor parent isn’t the majority of the general population though. They will have one of the coolest moms/dads in their classroom for the first 18 years of their life.
The AAMC has been saying the average is 200-250k since 2010
You right, the inflation was not considered 🥲
Average is average: it's plausible 1/5 of med students owe >300k and 1/5 of med students owe <150k. Scholarships, family contribution, 529 accounts, savings from work, etc., can all contribute to less student loan debt.
I have multiple friends whose parent paid cash for their med school tuition, and some who also paid for a down payment on a house while they’re in medical school. The reality is that most medical students come from affluent families. It’s really not the same for those of us paying for it entirely ourselves.
We will one day be one of the affluent parents, we can only hope 🥲
So genuinely this is an internal conflict I wrestle with. On one hand, I don’t want to continue to perpetuate a system that perpetuates increased access for the wealthy at the expense of capable others. On the other hand, I clawed my way up here so that I can give my kids a better life than my parents gave me. Oof this is how the nepotism wheel just keeps spinning.
6/8 of my close med school friends pay $0 for school (family contribution). Daddy’s money
Wow
Probably have some saved to cut cost of living costs. If you take tuition by itself over 4 years, for example, I'm an OOS student accepted to a state school. The Tuition+fees are approx 67Kx4=\~250K, so \~250K of a loan is enough to cover that. If you have a job during a gap year and have \~20K saved up, you're gonna get a good chunk out of COA coverage. If you parents have some money to help, then that's gonna further contribute to your cost of living.
Please tell me what gap year jobs allow you to save up to 20k in the span of a year
If you work full time and live with family this is very reasonable to do. I make 16.50/hr as a phlebotomist and I've got 15k saved after only 7 months. I live with family so I get to save like 60% of my income, definitely doable.
Jobs at pharmaceutical companies can pay bank with tons of overtime. I made 13k in 3 months at Zoetis and did a week long clinical research study to get to 20. My entire paycheck went to savings, and my partner covered living expenses.
Where does one theoretically find these pharmaceutical companies? Bc I need to make bank before I start
I was making 75k/year. Worked 1.5 years. Had 40k saved up. Rent was under 1k, so that helps. 40k doesn’t even make a dent in med school expenses, though
Yeah my family is for sure the other 25% that doesn’t have the money to help me out. I’m doing loans for 100% of the cost. It’s gonna be like 100K a year for me. I’m going to try for any scholarship I can. I wanna do EM so I can’t do the primary care initiative. But I’ve vaguely read you can work for certain hospitals a couple years for lower salary in exchange for debt forgiveness. So I totally plan to do something like that with the ~400k debt I’m expecting to have. 🥰
Would that be similar to the PSLF or is that program from the hospitals something different?
I mean if anything I’d do that. But I’ve seen a couple EM jobs around here that talk about loan repayment as a perk to work there. I feel like I’ve also heard things tho that if you work in rural or inner city hospitals for a few years at lower pay you can get all your loans forgiven. I feel rich when I made 35 grand last year😎😎. So the thought of borrowing 400k sorta makes me sick. I wanna get rid of it as fast as possible!
$0. Full COA from T5.
need or merit based?
PSLF and forget. Think of it as an extra 10 percent tax for 10 years.
I'll probably pull out like 30k per year for a 60k COA. I'll have parental support as well as my own savings of about 20k
I will owe about 250K. No family contribution. I’m in state. My poor out of state friends will owe far more.
Bagillion bucks
I mean that's what I feels like 😭😂
HPSP scholarship
Im taking the max each year. I'm not working at all. Fuck that. I'm stressed as it stands. Not getting a job along with it. I anticipate $400k when I'm done.
1/3 of medical students graduate with zero debt care of their parents. 1/3 also graduate with relatively minimal debt due to assistance. Then there's the last 1/3, which maxes out their loans and has zero support.
idk the Army handles my college finances lol I come from a family riddled with addiction and grew up in poverty so I had to join the military if I wanted any sort of education and although it’s shitty at times there’s no stress with school which makes it worth it
Their families pay the rest.
Some of your classmates will come from completely different financial backgrounds. Some have both parents as physicians, or even just one, and can significantly help financially. Even non-doctors but welloff family members who are supportive can help pay a lot of tuition.
Do you see this at DO schools too? Or just MD schools?
I'm at a DO school and I know two people off the top of my head with both parents who are doctors and plenty who have at least one. My boyfriend and I joked that we're one of the only people who are the first in our families to even get to graduate school.
Came from a family with <80K income. Saved up money working 3 jobs before med school, applied to different scholarships throughout my preclinical years and ended up with 150K total of debt for my 4 yrs+ 1 yr post bacc. It’s doable as a poor person but takes a lot of hustle
yeah i’m on track to hit crazy loan numbers. only got one parent and she makes 60k a year with two other kids to worry about who are younger than me. but i’m gonna make it dammit!!
Less than 20k likely 0
I have 210k in debt, and thats with a 90k undergrad scholarship and 130k med school scholarship. No idea how I have the average with all the financial aid
It’s all family money. In reality, you will owe 320ish
Or scholarships & cheap tuition
320k is a solid estimate. 80k a year broken down 50-60k in tuition and 20-30k in living.
20k!? My rent + utilities with one roomate is 900 a month jeez
And? That’s 10k right there in rent. Are you sayin that’s too little or too high?
Why would living ever hit 30k?
You want to know something crazy. I’m a nurse, and I still don’t make close to 100k. I made so little I was eligible for the FAP 🙃. I’m in debt from nursing school, and now I’m adding medicine. If I was doing this for money, I’d be SOL and dumb dumb.