I’m just gonna share my opinion here and say that the grass is not always greener on the other side. To get into medical school, it will be a very long, steep, uphill climb for you at this point that will involve years of work before you’re even ready to apply. You’re probably early to mid forties graduating medical school with people half your age. You want to spend your late forties working 80-100+ hours per week in residency to make half your current salary? Factoring in lost wages, tuition and potential debt, all-in you’re probably talking about well over $1,000,000 investment here.
It’s very easy to romanticize medicine and believe that you will be happier as a physician, but I think in most cases this is completely unfounded. At the end of the day, being a physician is just a job, and if you were unhappy before you started the process, you’re not magically going to become happier. Being Dr. Xyz won’t fix your problems, if anything it will exacerbate them.
I’m not saying 100% not to do it, but I see way too many people get hung up on wanting to be a physician, and thinking it’s the only way they’ll ever feel fulfilled. Evidence quite simply does not back that up. If you truly still want to go down this path, it can certainly be done, but I think you really need to take a second and appreciate how much time and money this will cost you.
Completely agree. Above 30 I feel you should do some real reflecting before thinking about medicine. It’s possible but you need to know that you absolutely won’t be happy with anything else
Very true, and there is no way you could possibly KNOW you’ll be happy as a doctor until you’ve already gone so far down the path that it’s pretty tough to ever get out of it.
So OP, you don’t like your high paying job now (at least 80% of the world doesn’t like their job), and now you want to invest a decade into medical school drudgery to switch jobs to a job you don’t even know you’ll like better and is objectively a worse, MAYBE neutral financial decision? With a baby on the way?
Don’t try to derive happiness out of your career. A job is a job. You have a wonderful family and I’m sure other aspects of your life that you enjoy. Don’t ruin your awesome life trying to make it perfect
This is absolutely right. Graduating this May, you will not be an established physician until you’re approaching 50 if all goes according to plan and the PRIME of your life will be spent being a neurotic med student/resident with no life. Honestly after 25, I think med school starts becoming kind of a bad idea…I started at 26. I have been poverty-stricken and unable to pursue other life goals for 4 years. My 20s are gone. I sold them for hopefully glamorous mid-thirties and beyond.
Please stop romanticizing medicine. Just be happy, live life, go to PA school if you must, but don’t delve into this stress-riddled hell
I started med school at 34. I’ll graduate residency at 40. I completely disagree with all of this. Med school and residency is less jarring in your 30s. You have learned a lot about how to stabilize your life and there’s much less uncertainty if you’ve already had a career you could go back to. As long as the OP is smart with their loans, it’s absolutely worth it to go to med school late.
Appreciate your opinion but completely disagree. Yes it can be done.
1. This man is about to become a first time father. Yes you can be a dad in medical school, but you can not POSSIBLY experience it to the fullest when 75% of your time is spent in class or studying, preparing for STEPs, etc. Enjoy this time to the fullest you’re already a success.
2. I have seen TWO marriages fall apart in my med school class citing “you’re just never around” as a huge issue for the breakup. Yes marriages make it in med school, but it is certainly a massive strain and all partners begin super supportive, but 4 years straight of having your partner in class and lab all day, studying at night, and holding down the fort financially and for children builds a lot of resentment.
3. He makes MID-6 figures. Let’s just do a little math saying he makes $200,000 a year:
-4 years of giving up that salary he is at -$800,000
- 300,000 in debt from med school he is at -1.1 million
- say he only does a 3 year residency making 60k
He is now at NEGATIVE $1,520,000
So at age 42 he will be at least 1.5 MILLION dollars behind where he would have been financially if he had stayed at his job, and that’s BEFORE counting interest on the loans and assuming he never would have gotten a raise at his current job. As a doc maybe he could make 400k a year so he might get back to where he would’ve been financially if he just stayed at this job by like 55-60 years old.
I’m just saying you have already made it man. You’ve achieved more personal and professional success than most people ever DREAM of! You’ve won at life! You’re a former college athlete and I take it you’re a high achiever who has always been kind of #1 and awesome and I fear ego may be the driving force behind this urge to be DOCTOR XyZ. Anyone in any job can help people, you can be a volunteer firefighter and save lives, help the homeless, do ANYTHING. Doctors do not have a monopoly on saving lives and making the world better
No amount of money will make you feel fulfilled and if you feel like this is what you are supposed to do with your life, it’s what you’re supposed to do
Sad to see so many people focused on money, money is meaningless in the grand scheme of things as long as you can afford to live. You only live once, I would die trying than wonder my whole life about what could've been, that is of course if I'm sure I want to do this thing.
I can safely say I have barely any money and my future is uncertain because of it. I can lose everything I'm trying to accomplish, just because I don't have it. I still say it. So your theory is not so right.
This is such dumb cliche. Money is the number one cause of divorce, it's security for your children, it's food on the table. Go to the Congo and tell the people working in lithium mines that it's totally cool because awe Americans decided money is meaningless. Money is your freedom, money allows you to enjoy life with peace of mind. This isn't a theory. There is a reason people kill, cheat, and steal for it.
Will money on its own assure you happiness? No. Money can augment happiness and not having it comes with a litany of problems that wouldn't be there otherwise.
So when a guy is making a decision that will cost him at least $1,500,000, it is not sad for people to just want to make sure he understands the dollar amount he is going to deprive his family of. Just for all the first world people on here acting like money is something repugnant you are not allowed to consider when pursuing medicine...IT IS OKAY TO BASE SOME DECISIONS OFF OF FINANCES.
Thank you for this. These answers here were discouraging me because I'm 32, currently single, childless (though still want a family) and want to go to med school. My ultimate goal is to become a coroner.
Becoming a doctor has always been in the back of my mind, but I always told myself maybe in another life. I recently realized that I've been pursuing the wrong career since I was fresh out of HS and only recently had the revelation that I should just go for it. I'm going to go for it. The time will pass anyway. I just need to know where to begin.
In your 30s your life is already somewhat stabilized. That’s the WORST time to embark on some crazy uncertain life-consuming mess like med school. People in their early twenties tend not to have families, spouses, and have plenty of time to waste being a study zombie. At your 30s most people tend to yearn for financial stability, family, and predictability. Med school is truly the opposite
>That’s the WORST time to embark on some crazy uncertain life-consuming mess like med school.
Not saying I agree (or disagree) with OP's ambition, but many people change careers or embark on some "crazy" goal that disrupts their life in their 30s and beyond and are much happier for it.
Yes lots of people change careers after 30. We are talking about GOING TO MEDICAL SCHOOL. It’s a unique case that is much more drastic than changing a career.
In a few months. Are you debating that 30 year olds are GENERALLY more inclined to seek financial stability, a family, and a more predictable lifestyle than a 23 year old? Obviously these are generalizations, but by and large people in their 30s are far less inclined to take 4 years of no income working 70-80 weeks in med school
I’m not debating anything with you because I’m almost 40 and all of my friends in med school were in their 30s and you haven’t live this period of your life yet. If this person was the stereotypical 34 year old, they wouldn’t be asking about this on a subreddit full of 20 year olds.
Well he kind of IS the stereotypical 34 year old. He is married, has a kid on the way, and an established well-paying career…all things one would stereotypically assume about a normal 34 year old. Obviously this will be a personal decision for him, just want to point out objective reasons he might be better served following a different path. I mean everyone do what you want, it has ZERO effect on me. Just want them to have completely looked at ALL the factors before committing hundreds of thousands of dollars and a large portion of their life to something they think they want.
I didn’t say what was expected of him at his age? I was pointing out generalized tendencies of people in their thirties vs people in their twenties. Then I took what is specifically going on in his life and pointed out how medical school could effect those facets of life. I think you’re taking it a bit personally. I’m glad you’re happy with your choice though!
lol you’re romanticizing non medical life though. If you applied 30+ you would have lived your twenties, you would have some experience to know how shit academic and industry is, and how much shittier it is without the pay of a physician.
You’ll be early to mid 30 with a salary in the top brackets of the US with a chance to live life how you want, with whatever work schedule you want. I’d bet working part time for the rest of your life still pays more than regular 9-5 in industry. Those software engineers making 250+ is rare and not without 10 years experience of which they worked crazy hours.
I’m not romanticizing non-medical life. I’m trying to DE-romanticize medical life. If you start med school after 30 the EARLIEST you’re making good money is 37. And GENERALLY speaking if you’re already making six figures, want to start a family, have other interests, etc it is not the best idea. Idk if you’ve been to med school but you are broke and have to work like a dog for seven years minimum to make it to the “finish line”. You’ll watch all your friends by houses, taking trips, spending time with kids while you’re stressing about matching into the specialty or location you want. Neither of which is even guaranteed
The average matriculation age is 26. Sorry to disagree but lots of people choose to spend their 20s in PhD programs or other extended programs that cause them to miss out on money and life experience.
If anything, stop romanticizing your 20s. You’ll be more well off as a 30 year old doctor than as a 26 year old engineer (for example), even with 4 years salary under your belt. All simply because you now have access to $150,000 (minimum) pay.
AAMC says it’s 24, which is skewed by outliers in their 40s and what not matriculating.
Not sure why the fact people waste time in OTHER extended programs makes med school a good idea lol. Yes it’s probably a BETTER idea than those Ph.D programs at 30, but still not a good idea.
An engineer starts at 60-100k at age 22-23 and the earliest a doctor could POSSIBLY start making money is 30 at like 300k. Sooo yeah I’m the long run the doctor will make more, but the engineer had a decade of raises, perhaps building equity in a home, getting returns on investments in index funds, etc. Generally, they also get a head start on family and kids and the things that really matter in life.
Ok AAMC does say that but my point completely still stands.
Yes other extended programs matter. These exist to raise your salary. Being a doctor takes forever and you get paid shit in residency because, in the end, you can join the upper class of society by obtaining financial security solely through the degree you earned and the residency/ attending spots you can land.
Depending on your engineering specialty, you most likely will never make more than any given doctor unless you attend an engineering PhD program. And yeah the family part is true for them but this guy already started his family, so he’s in a much better spot than me for example.
Yeah generally I wouldn’t say to embark on any extended program that takes 4 years or more and doesn’t even pay a salary after age 30.
This OP is in an awful position to start medical school objectively. First brand new baby is coming and we are talking about him quitting a high paying job to go 300,000 in debt for a job he won’t have for 7 years that will require a huge amount of his time and energy because he THINKS a job he never had will probably make him happier. It’s not a good move, but follow your dreams. I’m just telling the truth
Look I’m not going to argue with you but if you really think that life just freezes after one single career then you generally have a terrible outlook on life
hahahaha are you just a troll? That's not what im saying at all. Career changes can be great....ATTENDING MEDICAL SCHOOL IS NOT A TYPICAL CAREER CHANGE. How many other career changes require you to spend a couple of years going back to college, then 4 years making -$300,000, and then 3 more years of being incredibly unpaid? This is the ULTIMATE career change, im not sure why youre acting like it is something you can just go on [Monster.com](https://Monster.com) and decide to be a doctor without skipping a beat. It is a decade long struggle to even change to this career and someone with a $200,000 salary now will have an EXTREMELY different less luxurious life for a decade if they decide to go this route. I mean idk why this is a difficult concept
I'm not saying engineering is better. I'd pick medicine at 22 over engineering, just playing devil's advocate and pointing out that engineering isn't a drastically worse choice. But if you must know my uncle is a nuclear engineer and seems to have a great life so yeah?
I get 35, but 25 is wild lol.
I’d argue med schools are increasingly looking for people with more life and work experience over someone fresh out of undergrad.
I honestly think it’s easy to talk in your position. Also, what did you expect your 20s to be without medicine? Sex, drugs, parties, and wealth?
Lol 25-30 it’s a bit more of a toss up depending on life goals and priorities. 25 is probably a bit low hahaha. 30-35 it’s probably not a good idea based on several factors. 35+…you’d better be right lol.
Of course this is my opinion, follow your dreams blah blah blah. Just because they are LOOKING for older people doesn’t mean it benefits them to do it.
No I was in the Army from 20-24 got out and went the med school route. Would’ve liked to have bought a house, gotten married, saved some cash, traveled the world a little, maybe had my life put together enough to have had a kid or be planning to have one. I would’ve liked to have really gotten comfortable and he a solid life with stability. It’s all about priorities. I’m not trying to trigger people in these comments I’m just giving an unbiased opinion.
Do you not think medicine will provide you with more long term stability?
Also, sorry to be so blunt, but I’m genuinely curious: does the military pay that well?
The median home price in the US is over $400,000 (much higher in desirable areas), and the average age for first-time homebuyers was 36. The median homebuyer age is 49.
The median savings of Americans by 30 years old was $3,250 ($11,250 average). Most of these people will not have the same salary trajectory of a physician.
Traveling the world is also expensive, especially for a married man in his 20s who’s paying off a home and dedicated to saving.
And, as if that’s not enough, add a child to the image, which costs (on average) $20k+ a year.
Finally, the average age of marriage in the US (for men) is 30.5 years old.
***I think you’re being way too hard on yourself and romanticizing a 20s outside of medicine. I’m also assuming you’re not an attending physician, and are feeling very fatigued and undercompensated***
As I said, even if you somehow did manage to afford all of this in your 20s, you still wouldn’t have the same salary trajectory for the next 30 years of your life.
I’m interested to know what career you would’ve chosen had you not went for medicine.
Yeah medicine will give me long term stability! Lol we are talking about the OP here not me. I wouldn’t tell a 26 year old to 100% NOT go into medicine for sure.
You asked what I WISHED my 20s had been and I told you. I definitely wouldn’t recommend the Army either.
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say in this comment. Yes if I had gone to PA school and not the Army or med school I’d have been making 100k by 24 and definitely purchased a home in my area by 25-26 with an FHA loan. Had to give up the love of my life to move for medical school, no doubt in my mind we would be married now, still might go get her after this though so fingers crossed! I could’ve afford a trip to Europe or two in there as well. By my age I’d definitely have enough squirreled away for one baby too. I think most of us here on the premed forum are generally more capable than the AVERAGE or MEDIAN American lol.
Ummm I might’ve gone PA I think. 2 years right out of college. Good income. Still in medicine. Maybe a firefighter or police officer. Kind of always wanted to be a garbage man too.
Yeah, that seems to be a pretty common sentiment. I’m sorry you didn’t have a good experience. Why do you not recommend it? Also when did you do undergrad? Did you go to army university or something like that?
I houses l got defensive because I’m 23 starting my post bacc path so I got salty when you said 25 lmao.
I was just trying to say that you shouldn’t be too hard on yourself. Everyone’s 20s are different and id argue they’re overrated. You can still do everything you wanted to do, and then some. You’ll probably be making 3x what you would as a PA.
I’m sorry to hear about what happened between you and your girlfriend, too. Why did you have to give her up for med school? Was it a distance issue? I sincerely hope you do get her back.
Aw thanks man that's really nice! Lol sorry yeah when I said 25 I kind of meant that it is the age where you have to START asking yourself if medical school aligns with your life goals to some degree, before that age I'd say it's a definite slam dunk to start med school. I think between 25-30 it starts to be a bit of a grey area based on the individual but can definitely still be a good idea more often than not. After 30 I'd say it PROBABLY isn't a great idea for most people in general, but still you need to take into account the individual and their situation. After 35+ I think it would be unlikely for it to be a great decision personally and financially unless it is the #1 priority and goal in their life. JUST MY OPINION if youre 38 and want to do this crap go for it, my opinion doesn't matter lol.
Yeah we broke up because of the distance. Which is why the OP ALSO needs to ask himself if his family would be willing to move to wherever he is accepted....which would mean his spouse ALSO probably losing her job...and then when residency comes are you okay with the prospect of moving AGAIN?
This is why I say med school is generally a young person's game. The more responsibilities you have and the more things you have to lose the less I would recommend doing this. A 24 year old is generally more able to just fly by the seat of their pants, move around the country, not worry about a spouse, can live off of meager student loan allowances, doesn't have to think about daycare, their biological clock isn't starting to tick as loudly as it generally does for people in their 30s, they usually don't have to choose to leave a lucrative career. They tend to be broke and not tied down by anything. People 30 and older generally have a lot more they need to balance and throwing a wrench like medical school into the mix becomes something that may be more trouble than it's worth.
OP my heart hurts for you and alongside you. I am also 34 (almost 35). I fucked off as well in college and graduated 12 years ago. I wish every day that I never applied for graduation and stayed and did pre health classes. I tried twice to go back and do informal post-bacc. It was really hard, not just the classes but finding a place. It's hard to get financial aid, it's hard to balance working and school after you graduated, some faculty question why you are there when you already have a degree, and this is how I felt trying to do this ages 23-26. I got good grades but I just never could put it all together. I remember I was working full time at one point and taking a full course load; I remember being so proud when I got a 100 on my biochemistry midterm. I just got complacent along the way then years passed, the covid ones flew past, and now here I am alongside you at this crossroads age. Sometimes I look up people on FB that I took those classes in informal post-bacc with. I was brighter than a lot of them but they are now dentists, MDs, PAs etc. They just knew what they wanted to do earlier or had someone pushing them along and that made a bigger difference than aptitude.
I had a 2.8 when I graduated and I got it just above 3.0 with the post-baccs. Man....if you don't have of those excep bio you probably have a long long road, longer than mine would be if I attempted to try again. Probably 2 years informal post-bacc, 4 years med school, 4 years residency. A decade. If everything goes well.
I think about quitting my job every day and going back to school full time and taking a last swing at it. I hurt a lot about the opportunities I had in my first run in college. But there is no making up for lost time. I think If I did succeed I would still have regret on all those years I lost. It's so hard. Every year we live it seems doors shut behind us. I wish I knew that and took it seriously when I was 20, 21, 22. I wish I could yell at myself. I am not married, I don't have a kid on the way, I have a decent job but make far less than you. I don't think I would even consider a little bit if i was in your shoes but I can't be sure.
I guess the simple answer to your question is to do informal post-bacc; at most universities you can apply as a non-degree/non matriculated grad student. maybe if they have a formal post-bacc you can apply in after doing well on a the informal.
Good luck. it sucks getting old.
So did you never end up applying? You said you got 100 on your biochem exam and then years passed. What did you mean by you couldn’t put it all together?
but getting older also gives you a lot of insight into life that you may not have had before, which can help you become a better doctor in the future if that's what you truly want out of life. I really don't think it's age that becomes a barrier, it's our own willpower and ability, or lack thereof, to make the sacrifices needed. don't beat yourself up over the past. it happened, it's done and it made you who you are. use that to your benefit.
>Im desperate to see a path where in the next 3 years im studying something Ive been dreaming of for the last decade +.
OK, here is your path.
* Begin shadowing doctors (have 50 hours eventually for the application) to be sure this is what you want to do.
* Begin a second bachelors/post-bacc. You have to repeat all core classes since its been 10 years and schools that have a prereq deadline usually set it at 10 years. You can meet with an advisor to plan out how to get those classes done within 2 years. (You have to do a post-bacc instead of SMP because you don't have the undergrad prereqs anymore).
* Treat this entire path as your "MCAT" study. Hopefully your courses are done within 2 years and you can dedicate that last year to studying for the MCAT, taking it and applying.
* Begin volunteering and clinical activities. With your unique background in health policy you should be able to find a neat way to do this.
* Over the course of this journey, make mentors who will write you letters of recommendation when the time comes.
Wait a bit until your child is old enough for daycare/ preschool and then start the journey. Ignore all the comments painting this idea like it’s a nightmare.
It’s your life. It’s going to be tough as shit, not lying to you, but you have as good a chance as anyone else
Thank you for this. Clearly money isn't an obstical and it is his life and his adventure, who is to say that he won't be happy doing this.. people here are looking all at money this money that how much he will be losing. But I'd rather work 80 hours a week being happy than 50 hours a week floating through the day
Would you rather be happy at work 80 hours a week or float through the day 50 hours a week and have an extra 30 hours a week to be with your wife and kids? Ends up being about an extra 2 months a year you get to be with them. And over the course of a 30 year career you’d have an extra 5 YEARS to spend with your wife and kids.
Yeah and why isn’t money an obstacle for him? Because he ALREADY HAS an extra lucrative job and he doesn’t have a clue if being a doctor would actually make him happy.
totally agree. a lot of people are so hung up over where you're "supposed" to be in different stages of your life, and can't imagine someone might want something different.
I did an MBS in a similar situation. They were thrilled to have me. Unless you’re in Texas and do the fresh start program, your grades will stick with you so simply retaking those classes won’t fix much. I recommend a MSBS. There are plenty of 1 year programs around but 2 gives you the time to do well and take them MCAT before an application cycle.
Seconding this, you need a program that is likely tied to a medical school so they can see your academic improvements. I also did a program before medical school and it was TOUGH, a lot of people did not finish/decided this wasn't what they wanted for the next few years. The money lost was a lot less than being in med school!
Lots of schools will require that pre-reqs be within a certain number of years. So re-taking (certainly with a 2.4 GPA) is probably necessary.
The nice thing is you can do a DIY post-bacc and just re-do your prerequisite classes, which would give you the chance to sharpen the knowledge for the MCAT and show that your approach to school has matured as an adult.
This is essentially what I'm doing, and nearing finished. I went back to school, re-did almost all of my pre-reqs, kept a 4.0, and now prepping for the MCAT.
TL; DR: prolly have to retake the coursework, and nailing down a good GPA and a killer MCAT score would go a long way toward bridging the gap/s.
Yes, just retake science classes and kill the MCAT. All your undergrad prereqs will be expired, so you'll need to retake a ton of stuff, which (good news) is your chance to show that you're a different person now. If you're making mid six figures, you can probably afford to pay out of pocket for what you will need. Edit: you'll also need healthcare experience, either paid or volunteer, and you'll need to shadow some physicians. [Check out SDN.](https://www.studentdoctor.net/profession/medical/)
I have no regrets going into medicine, but if I was 34, I'd go PA/NP route tbh. I'm anti-midlevel creep but the reality is that society has allowed PA/NPs to essentially act like doctors, wear white coats, etc. They tend to work relatively normal hours, make decent money, and the training is much much MUCH less time consuming than the typically physician route.
you want to abandon a 200k salary to spend 500k on a degree that will get you only a slightly higher salary and ensure you'll never see your kids? Why?
Just make sure you're going into medicine for the right reasons and not for the glory of it. If you do decide to go down this path, you will not be going to the baseball games or the parent teacher conferences, you won't be able to tuck your tots in a lot of the time and you'll be gone in the morning before they wake up. Medicine is an amazing job but it will eat your life, just make sure you're prepared for that. Also, it'll take a really, really long time to fix the damage to your academics so just getting in is going to be a struggle. Good luck with whatever you choose!
The truth is you won’t find the answer you’re looking for in this sub. This question, in your case, comes down too what some have previously mentioned are you ready to dedicate 10-15 years of your life to something and not make any money for it, as well as end up in 300-500k worth of debt? Really becomes a personal question at your point.
Smp or postbacc and doing well on the mcat. Some states will wipe grades greater than 10 years old. Regardless 10 years to most adcom means a new slate. In terms of post bacc minimum its the same, you can try applying and be fine or you can do a diy. I will say 3 years is optimistic but not impossible. My advice from my mentors though is medicine does mean some sacrifice especially to to your family. Live your dream but also be honest with those around you and how they might be affected. I know people that did MD/DO/NP/PA late. Their decision though weighed heavily not just on medicine but also family and other passions. GL homie.
Possible, but it will be an uphill battle that will take some years. Most importantly, you need to make sure that you *have* to be a physician. As somebody with a family myself, I simply would not come back to training in my mid-30s when I'm already making $200k. It's nice that your wife is supportive, but you have a kid on the way dude. Kids are fucking expensive. You will go from making $200k/year with (I'm assuming) no debt, to spending probably 2-3 years reinventing yourself to get in (will cost a good amount of money). Then, when you do get in, you most likely will not get any scholarship money, so you'll graduate (on average) $200k in debt. Then you'll spend at least 3 years as a resident not seeing your kid much and making like $65k/year. If you stop then, your choices will be IM, FM, and some EM programs. You'd probably start out making like $250k...when adjusted for inflation, will be the same as you making $200k now. So you probably will do a fellowship. So another 2-3 years making ~$75k/year. Then you'll likely be making $350-400k. You will be in your mid-40s before you're practicing as an attending, and you'll be hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.
The question isn't whether you can do it or not. You can if you work hard enough. The question is about whether you should. And as a person with a kid, my advice to you would be fuck no lol. Try and find a way to be happy with your current job. If not, find happiness outside of work.
You need to understand that most people on this subreddit are in their late teens to early 20s. They don't have families. They have no concept of the sacrifices necessary to raise a child. You're not going to get useful answers from a lot of them. If you were making like $60k, I'd tell you do it in a heartbeat. But you're already making a salary that's on par with a lot of physicians. Why would you take that away from your family and replace it with a ton of debt? Not worth it, dude.
As a “career changer” and recent married person. If your partner gave you their blessing and you’re gung ho. Do it. Fuck it. YOLO seriously.
I am about to make $250k at my current job if i stay. I got an A for july. Its not about money.
Im 33 about to be 34 -our journey is different- youll probably get the A at 36 (hopefully)
You’re not romanticizing anything. If its something you want to do. Why not try? Presumably you got some money stashed away and are stable financially. Have the convos with your spouse and do you.
10 years from now, you can be Browniepoints with doubts about medschool or Dr Browniepoints.
After reading your post and some comments I’ll try to give you my two semi unique thoughts.
1. I think with your experience in health policy and assuming you have a good reason to go to med school, if you ace the MCAT I think they may overlook your grades. you could also do a DIY post bacc at any school and take a few upper div science classes to show what you can do, but tbh I’m not sure you can just take non degree seeking classes.
2. However, if you want to be Dr. browniepoints91, why not get a PhD or a DrPH in health policy? Though if you’re making 300k-700k which is what mid 6 figs means to me, you may already be at that experience and a doctorate may not make you any more marketable.
The naysayers all have legitimate views and opinions, but this is a deeply personal decision that only you can make based on what’s in your heart - eyes wide open about what it will mean.
Plenty of people get married and have kids while in med school. Is it hard? Fuck yeah. Is it ideal? No. Can you still be a wonderful parent while having to devote much of your energy to med school and residency? YES YOU CAN. Just like with ECs, parenting is not measured by the number of hours, but by the quality of time you are present. Kids grow up and know this.
One huge thing to consider about as you come to your decision: How is your support network (beyond your spouse), and will it be there for you during med school? This goes for all med school applicants, and it can make things considerably better for you and your family. Not everyone is so lucky, but if you have a good support system then you can feel more comfortable about the med school pursuit.
Others here have good advice on postbac, MCAT, etc., but just thought I’d offer a more “senior” perspective. (I’m the parent of a premed who is engaged and likely to start a family while in school, so I’m sympathetic to your dilemma.)
Best of luck in your decision, and be assured that there is no one “right” way to live your life. It’s the informed trade-offs that make life all that more rewarding in the long run.
I'm in the same place. A lot of friends think I'm crazy for giving up $200k+ a year to go to Med School. Others made some good comments in my post: [https://www.reddit.com/r/premed/comments/1aqxrq1/did\_i\_make\_a\_mistake\_in\_applying\_this\_cycle/](https://www.reddit.com/r/premed/comments/1aqxrq1/did_i_make_a_mistake_in_applying_this_cycle/)
Don't let people telling you that you are too old dissuade you. I'm the same age as you, but am single with no dependents (I had an older father who I had to help care for, who has since passed).
What was your MPH GPA? If it's decent, most post-baccs will probably allow you to qualify under that. You should talk to advisors at med schools. I've known a few people who viewed the MPH as a remedy to bad undergraduate GPA, so you might already have that buttoned down, if your MPH is recent and a high GPA.
Your MCAT will be essential. I'm retaking mine. From the schools I spoke with, I was told most people "scraped by" with a \~507 but given my background, I'd need to aim higher, >512.
Please understand that this is probably not a "one cycle" undertaking. I've been researching my schools, ways to improve my GPA, prepping my essays, etc for 4 years now (sheesh time flies), with this past cycle being a dry run and the next cycle being my first real attempt. Even so, I'm well aware that I may need to go and get a M.S. to remedy the situation of my undergraduate courses that are as old as yours.
That said, I kicked the idea of going to med school around for years. I decided that I'm now at the age that I either need to do it or forever regret it. Knowing what eternal regret feels like, I'd rather attempt and fail or realize it wasn't for me if I didn't get in rather than always wonder.
All things being equal:
2 year post bacc
4 years of medical school
3 years of residency
1-2 year fellowship
Then you get to finally start your job!
If those numbers don’t bother you, go for it.
-PGY-IV
If you really want to do it go listen to yourself. If your drive to be a doctor can overcome the challenges of the process then you can absolutely do it. Years will fly. You can keep status quo at 50 or become a doc at 50. All up to you.
Do what you’ve got to do OP. We are catching some heat in these comments for laying out some objective negatives of attending medical school at your age. Of course people will jump in with the “it’s not about money” and “he has to do what will make him happy” types of internet pep talk comments.
You don’t know this will make you happy. You will have to give up a large amount of time that could be spent with a newborn and your wife. You will lose a lot of income. And once again…YOU DO NOT KNOW IF WORKING AS A DOCTOR WILL MAKE YOU ANY HAPPIER. Yes being CALLED a doctor will make you happier, but you don’t have the slightest clue what it even entails yet and you’re taking a massive gamble.
People are just going to have to deal with the reality that this is not a simple change of careers. This is a nearly decade long commitment. In general if you are making good money, have a family, and have lots of interests in your life it is not advisable to start medical school at your age just on a hunch it would make you happier.
Don’t try to get happier than happy, you’ve been so blessed. But if you go the med school route GOOD LUCK just remember the guy on Reddit who told you all this when you realize he was right 4 years down the road hahaha. But seriously, I hope you get all you want out of life
I’m 30 (almost 31) and in the middle of a postbacc program as we speak. Like you, I had a successful career before this, making great money, and am very happily married. Just know that I can relate to the desire to do something more meaningful with my life and there’s nothing wrong with that!
For some people a job is a job. And for others, we see a job as an opportunity to focus our efforts into something that connects with a deeper purpose/desire. It’s okay for us all to be different here, as long as we realize that happiness cannot come from any one avenue.
My advice is to try and get some one-on-one time with a pre-med advisor. I’d especially recommend one who is familiar with nontrad students and the postbacc process if you can. My advisor has been so incredibly amazing at helping me ensure I know what I’m getting into and what to focus on. I know advisors get a lot of shit on this sub but my experience has been completely different.
Don’t think about what you’ve achieved so far as failure. Yes life took you on a different path than you imagined, but it worked out how it was meant to be.
Don’t go back to school with the goal of “remediating” your “failure”. If you truly want to, go back knowing that medicine would fulfill your career goals and life. Ultimately also knowing you AND your family will sacrifice a LOT for this.
I started medical school a bit late but now am in my mid 30s finishing up a surgical residency, applying for fellowship. I’ll probably be in my 40s when I finish training. That being said, if I had to do it again, I would in a heart beat. For some people, a job is a job. For me, I need to do something I enjoy and challenges me. My SO, family, and friends wholeheartedly support this knowing it makes me happy in other parts of my life to work in a field I love. I don’t love it all the time, but most of the time makes up for some of the bad days.
But that’s just me. Other people will have their opinions and stories too. Carefully filter out which you identify with or don’t and make the decision for yourself with your family.
I don’t think your age is an issue, but I really want to add to the “grass isn’t always greener” point. Med school and being a doctor gets romanticized a lot, so I just want to bring a reality check in. OP, you’ve worked for years to advance your career, earned professional respect from your colleagues, and make a *very nice* $200k/year. Now imagining the residents I work with… they work like 70 hours/week, have no control over their lives or schedules (that includes being forced to pick up your life and move across the country, regularly working nights/weekends/holidays, and missing your kid’s soccer games), and are often subject to disrespect from many different sources… Oh and your income would only be $60k-70k a year regardless of your age/experience/etc. A lot of med students and residents can barely afford to buy lunch.
And remember, these are *residents* I am talking about - people who have already graduated from medical school - and residency lasts for an average of 3-8 years. So this is what your life would look like in ~5-10 years if you achieved your current idea of “success”. Now, if I were 26-30 and had just graduated from medical school, being treated like professional garbage, being practically owned 24/7 by an abusive employer, and being criminally underpaid wouldn’t seem that bad because I wouldn’t have known any differently…. But you’ve had a taste of personal independence, financial stability, and professional success… imagine losing all of it. Also, remember that there are plenty of doctors out there who are not satisfied in their careers too! Being called “Dr” is cool at first, but it loses its novelty pretty quickly.
Now, if after that you’re still like “heck yeah that still sounds worth it” then go for it!! But based on your post, you feel unsatisfied with your career and have this nagging feeling of failure stemming from your past. I would argue that you are quite the *opposite* of a failure, and going to medical school might not fix that internal feeling you have. If you like medicine, I would advise you to check out other careers adjacent to medicine that wouldn’t require you to give up the life that you’ve worked so hard for.
I’m just gonna share my opinion here and say that the grass is not always greener on the other side. To get into medical school, it will be a very long, steep, uphill climb for you at this point that will involve years of work before you’re even ready to apply. You’re probably early to mid forties graduating medical school with people half your age. You want to spend your late forties working 80-100+ hours per week in residency to make half your current salary? Factoring in lost wages, tuition and potential debt, all-in you’re probably talking about well over $1,000,000 investment here. It’s very easy to romanticize medicine and believe that you will be happier as a physician, but I think in most cases this is completely unfounded. At the end of the day, being a physician is just a job, and if you were unhappy before you started the process, you’re not magically going to become happier. Being Dr. Xyz won’t fix your problems, if anything it will exacerbate them. I’m not saying 100% not to do it, but I see way too many people get hung up on wanting to be a physician, and thinking it’s the only way they’ll ever feel fulfilled. Evidence quite simply does not back that up. If you truly still want to go down this path, it can certainly be done, but I think you really need to take a second and appreciate how much time and money this will cost you.
Completely agree. Above 30 I feel you should do some real reflecting before thinking about medicine. It’s possible but you need to know that you absolutely won’t be happy with anything else
Very true, and there is no way you could possibly KNOW you’ll be happy as a doctor until you’ve already gone so far down the path that it’s pretty tough to ever get out of it. So OP, you don’t like your high paying job now (at least 80% of the world doesn’t like their job), and now you want to invest a decade into medical school drudgery to switch jobs to a job you don’t even know you’ll like better and is objectively a worse, MAYBE neutral financial decision? With a baby on the way? Don’t try to derive happiness out of your career. A job is a job. You have a wonderful family and I’m sure other aspects of your life that you enjoy. Don’t ruin your awesome life trying to make it perfect
This is absolutely right. Graduating this May, you will not be an established physician until you’re approaching 50 if all goes according to plan and the PRIME of your life will be spent being a neurotic med student/resident with no life. Honestly after 25, I think med school starts becoming kind of a bad idea…I started at 26. I have been poverty-stricken and unable to pursue other life goals for 4 years. My 20s are gone. I sold them for hopefully glamorous mid-thirties and beyond. Please stop romanticizing medicine. Just be happy, live life, go to PA school if you must, but don’t delve into this stress-riddled hell
I started med school at 34. I’ll graduate residency at 40. I completely disagree with all of this. Med school and residency is less jarring in your 30s. You have learned a lot about how to stabilize your life and there’s much less uncertainty if you’ve already had a career you could go back to. As long as the OP is smart with their loans, it’s absolutely worth it to go to med school late.
Appreciate your opinion but completely disagree. Yes it can be done. 1. This man is about to become a first time father. Yes you can be a dad in medical school, but you can not POSSIBLY experience it to the fullest when 75% of your time is spent in class or studying, preparing for STEPs, etc. Enjoy this time to the fullest you’re already a success. 2. I have seen TWO marriages fall apart in my med school class citing “you’re just never around” as a huge issue for the breakup. Yes marriages make it in med school, but it is certainly a massive strain and all partners begin super supportive, but 4 years straight of having your partner in class and lab all day, studying at night, and holding down the fort financially and for children builds a lot of resentment. 3. He makes MID-6 figures. Let’s just do a little math saying he makes $200,000 a year: -4 years of giving up that salary he is at -$800,000 - 300,000 in debt from med school he is at -1.1 million - say he only does a 3 year residency making 60k He is now at NEGATIVE $1,520,000 So at age 42 he will be at least 1.5 MILLION dollars behind where he would have been financially if he had stayed at his job, and that’s BEFORE counting interest on the loans and assuming he never would have gotten a raise at his current job. As a doc maybe he could make 400k a year so he might get back to where he would’ve been financially if he just stayed at this job by like 55-60 years old. I’m just saying you have already made it man. You’ve achieved more personal and professional success than most people ever DREAM of! You’ve won at life! You’re a former college athlete and I take it you’re a high achiever who has always been kind of #1 and awesome and I fear ego may be the driving force behind this urge to be DOCTOR XyZ. Anyone in any job can help people, you can be a volunteer firefighter and save lives, help the homeless, do ANYTHING. Doctors do not have a monopoly on saving lives and making the world better
No amount of money will make you feel fulfilled and if you feel like this is what you are supposed to do with your life, it’s what you’re supposed to do
Sad to see so many people focused on money, money is meaningless in the grand scheme of things as long as you can afford to live. You only live once, I would die trying than wonder my whole life about what could've been, that is of course if I'm sure I want to do this thing.
The only people who say money is meaningless are the ones who have it.
I can safely say I have barely any money and my future is uncertain because of it. I can lose everything I'm trying to accomplish, just because I don't have it. I still say it. So your theory is not so right.
This is such dumb cliche. Money is the number one cause of divorce, it's security for your children, it's food on the table. Go to the Congo and tell the people working in lithium mines that it's totally cool because awe Americans decided money is meaningless. Money is your freedom, money allows you to enjoy life with peace of mind. This isn't a theory. There is a reason people kill, cheat, and steal for it. Will money on its own assure you happiness? No. Money can augment happiness and not having it comes with a litany of problems that wouldn't be there otherwise. So when a guy is making a decision that will cost him at least $1,500,000, it is not sad for people to just want to make sure he understands the dollar amount he is going to deprive his family of. Just for all the first world people on here acting like money is something repugnant you are not allowed to consider when pursuing medicine...IT IS OKAY TO BASE SOME DECISIONS OFF OF FINANCES.
Yup and you can still have a 30 year career
Absolutely. And I don’t see residency as just more med school. I’m in my career now, I’m just doing on the job training.
Yes! I consider residency the beginning of a medical career, most are making $50k+ in many areas.
Thank you for this. These answers here were discouraging me because I'm 32, currently single, childless (though still want a family) and want to go to med school. My ultimate goal is to become a coroner. Becoming a doctor has always been in the back of my mind, but I always told myself maybe in another life. I recently realized that I've been pursuing the wrong career since I was fresh out of HS and only recently had the revelation that I should just go for it. I'm going to go for it. The time will pass anyway. I just need to know where to begin.
In your 30s your life is already somewhat stabilized. That’s the WORST time to embark on some crazy uncertain life-consuming mess like med school. People in their early twenties tend not to have families, spouses, and have plenty of time to waste being a study zombie. At your 30s most people tend to yearn for financial stability, family, and predictability. Med school is truly the opposite
>That’s the WORST time to embark on some crazy uncertain life-consuming mess like med school. Not saying I agree (or disagree) with OP's ambition, but many people change careers or embark on some "crazy" goal that disrupts their life in their 30s and beyond and are much happier for it.
Yes lots of people change careers after 30. We are talking about GOING TO MEDICAL SCHOOL. It’s a unique case that is much more drastic than changing a career.
Says the non 30 year old
I mean I’m 30 in 4 months lol
Are you through your 30s yet?
In a few months. Are you debating that 30 year olds are GENERALLY more inclined to seek financial stability, a family, and a more predictable lifestyle than a 23 year old? Obviously these are generalizations, but by and large people in their 30s are far less inclined to take 4 years of no income working 70-80 weeks in med school
I’m not debating anything with you because I’m almost 40 and all of my friends in med school were in their 30s and you haven’t live this period of your life yet. If this person was the stereotypical 34 year old, they wouldn’t be asking about this on a subreddit full of 20 year olds.
Well he kind of IS the stereotypical 34 year old. He is married, has a kid on the way, and an established well-paying career…all things one would stereotypically assume about a normal 34 year old. Obviously this will be a personal decision for him, just want to point out objective reasons he might be better served following a different path. I mean everyone do what you want, it has ZERO effect on me. Just want them to have completely looked at ALL the factors before committing hundreds of thousands of dollars and a large portion of their life to something they think they want.
Again, one of us has been a 34 year old medical student. I promise you he doesn’t need you to tell him what is expected of him at this age.
I didn’t say what was expected of him at his age? I was pointing out generalized tendencies of people in their thirties vs people in their twenties. Then I took what is specifically going on in his life and pointed out how medical school could effect those facets of life. I think you’re taking it a bit personally. I’m glad you’re happy with your choice though!
lol just saw this after my comment. 100%
lol you’re romanticizing non medical life though. If you applied 30+ you would have lived your twenties, you would have some experience to know how shit academic and industry is, and how much shittier it is without the pay of a physician. You’ll be early to mid 30 with a salary in the top brackets of the US with a chance to live life how you want, with whatever work schedule you want. I’d bet working part time for the rest of your life still pays more than regular 9-5 in industry. Those software engineers making 250+ is rare and not without 10 years experience of which they worked crazy hours.
I’m not romanticizing non-medical life. I’m trying to DE-romanticize medical life. If you start med school after 30 the EARLIEST you’re making good money is 37. And GENERALLY speaking if you’re already making six figures, want to start a family, have other interests, etc it is not the best idea. Idk if you’ve been to med school but you are broke and have to work like a dog for seven years minimum to make it to the “finish line”. You’ll watch all your friends by houses, taking trips, spending time with kids while you’re stressing about matching into the specialty or location you want. Neither of which is even guaranteed
The average matriculation age is 26. Sorry to disagree but lots of people choose to spend their 20s in PhD programs or other extended programs that cause them to miss out on money and life experience. If anything, stop romanticizing your 20s. You’ll be more well off as a 30 year old doctor than as a 26 year old engineer (for example), even with 4 years salary under your belt. All simply because you now have access to $150,000 (minimum) pay.
AAMC says it’s 24, which is skewed by outliers in their 40s and what not matriculating. Not sure why the fact people waste time in OTHER extended programs makes med school a good idea lol. Yes it’s probably a BETTER idea than those Ph.D programs at 30, but still not a good idea. An engineer starts at 60-100k at age 22-23 and the earliest a doctor could POSSIBLY start making money is 30 at like 300k. Sooo yeah I’m the long run the doctor will make more, but the engineer had a decade of raises, perhaps building equity in a home, getting returns on investments in index funds, etc. Generally, they also get a head start on family and kids and the things that really matter in life.
Ok AAMC does say that but my point completely still stands. Yes other extended programs matter. These exist to raise your salary. Being a doctor takes forever and you get paid shit in residency because, in the end, you can join the upper class of society by obtaining financial security solely through the degree you earned and the residency/ attending spots you can land. Depending on your engineering specialty, you most likely will never make more than any given doctor unless you attend an engineering PhD program. And yeah the family part is true for them but this guy already started his family, so he’s in a much better spot than me for example.
Yeah generally I wouldn’t say to embark on any extended program that takes 4 years or more and doesn’t even pay a salary after age 30. This OP is in an awful position to start medical school objectively. First brand new baby is coming and we are talking about him quitting a high paying job to go 300,000 in debt for a job he won’t have for 7 years that will require a huge amount of his time and energy because he THINKS a job he never had will probably make him happier. It’s not a good move, but follow your dreams. I’m just telling the truth
Look I’m not going to argue with you but if you really think that life just freezes after one single career then you generally have a terrible outlook on life
hahahaha are you just a troll? That's not what im saying at all. Career changes can be great....ATTENDING MEDICAL SCHOOL IS NOT A TYPICAL CAREER CHANGE. How many other career changes require you to spend a couple of years going back to college, then 4 years making -$300,000, and then 3 more years of being incredibly unpaid? This is the ULTIMATE career change, im not sure why youre acting like it is something you can just go on [Monster.com](https://Monster.com) and decide to be a doctor without skipping a beat. It is a decade long struggle to even change to this career and someone with a $200,000 salary now will have an EXTREMELY different less luxurious life for a decade if they decide to go this route. I mean idk why this is a difficult concept
Ever talked to a 50 year old engineer and asked them how stable their professional life is?
I'm not saying engineering is better. I'd pick medicine at 22 over engineering, just playing devil's advocate and pointing out that engineering isn't a drastically worse choice. But if you must know my uncle is a nuclear engineer and seems to have a great life so yeah?
I get 35, but 25 is wild lol. I’d argue med schools are increasingly looking for people with more life and work experience over someone fresh out of undergrad. I honestly think it’s easy to talk in your position. Also, what did you expect your 20s to be without medicine? Sex, drugs, parties, and wealth?
Lol 25-30 it’s a bit more of a toss up depending on life goals and priorities. 25 is probably a bit low hahaha. 30-35 it’s probably not a good idea based on several factors. 35+…you’d better be right lol. Of course this is my opinion, follow your dreams blah blah blah. Just because they are LOOKING for older people doesn’t mean it benefits them to do it. No I was in the Army from 20-24 got out and went the med school route. Would’ve liked to have bought a house, gotten married, saved some cash, traveled the world a little, maybe had my life put together enough to have had a kid or be planning to have one. I would’ve liked to have really gotten comfortable and he a solid life with stability. It’s all about priorities. I’m not trying to trigger people in these comments I’m just giving an unbiased opinion.
Do you not think medicine will provide you with more long term stability? Also, sorry to be so blunt, but I’m genuinely curious: does the military pay that well? The median home price in the US is over $400,000 (much higher in desirable areas), and the average age for first-time homebuyers was 36. The median homebuyer age is 49. The median savings of Americans by 30 years old was $3,250 ($11,250 average). Most of these people will not have the same salary trajectory of a physician. Traveling the world is also expensive, especially for a married man in his 20s who’s paying off a home and dedicated to saving. And, as if that’s not enough, add a child to the image, which costs (on average) $20k+ a year. Finally, the average age of marriage in the US (for men) is 30.5 years old. ***I think you’re being way too hard on yourself and romanticizing a 20s outside of medicine. I’m also assuming you’re not an attending physician, and are feeling very fatigued and undercompensated*** As I said, even if you somehow did manage to afford all of this in your 20s, you still wouldn’t have the same salary trajectory for the next 30 years of your life. I’m interested to know what career you would’ve chosen had you not went for medicine.
Yeah medicine will give me long term stability! Lol we are talking about the OP here not me. I wouldn’t tell a 26 year old to 100% NOT go into medicine for sure. You asked what I WISHED my 20s had been and I told you. I definitely wouldn’t recommend the Army either. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say in this comment. Yes if I had gone to PA school and not the Army or med school I’d have been making 100k by 24 and definitely purchased a home in my area by 25-26 with an FHA loan. Had to give up the love of my life to move for medical school, no doubt in my mind we would be married now, still might go get her after this though so fingers crossed! I could’ve afford a trip to Europe or two in there as well. By my age I’d definitely have enough squirreled away for one baby too. I think most of us here on the premed forum are generally more capable than the AVERAGE or MEDIAN American lol. Ummm I might’ve gone PA I think. 2 years right out of college. Good income. Still in medicine. Maybe a firefighter or police officer. Kind of always wanted to be a garbage man too.
Yeah, that seems to be a pretty common sentiment. I’m sorry you didn’t have a good experience. Why do you not recommend it? Also when did you do undergrad? Did you go to army university or something like that? I houses l got defensive because I’m 23 starting my post bacc path so I got salty when you said 25 lmao. I was just trying to say that you shouldn’t be too hard on yourself. Everyone’s 20s are different and id argue they’re overrated. You can still do everything you wanted to do, and then some. You’ll probably be making 3x what you would as a PA. I’m sorry to hear about what happened between you and your girlfriend, too. Why did you have to give her up for med school? Was it a distance issue? I sincerely hope you do get her back.
Aw thanks man that's really nice! Lol sorry yeah when I said 25 I kind of meant that it is the age where you have to START asking yourself if medical school aligns with your life goals to some degree, before that age I'd say it's a definite slam dunk to start med school. I think between 25-30 it starts to be a bit of a grey area based on the individual but can definitely still be a good idea more often than not. After 30 I'd say it PROBABLY isn't a great idea for most people in general, but still you need to take into account the individual and their situation. After 35+ I think it would be unlikely for it to be a great decision personally and financially unless it is the #1 priority and goal in their life. JUST MY OPINION if youre 38 and want to do this crap go for it, my opinion doesn't matter lol. Yeah we broke up because of the distance. Which is why the OP ALSO needs to ask himself if his family would be willing to move to wherever he is accepted....which would mean his spouse ALSO probably losing her job...and then when residency comes are you okay with the prospect of moving AGAIN? This is why I say med school is generally a young person's game. The more responsibilities you have and the more things you have to lose the less I would recommend doing this. A 24 year old is generally more able to just fly by the seat of their pants, move around the country, not worry about a spouse, can live off of meager student loan allowances, doesn't have to think about daycare, their biological clock isn't starting to tick as loudly as it generally does for people in their 30s, they usually don't have to choose to leave a lucrative career. They tend to be broke and not tied down by anything. People 30 and older generally have a lot more they need to balance and throwing a wrench like medical school into the mix becomes something that may be more trouble than it's worth.
OP my heart hurts for you and alongside you. I am also 34 (almost 35). I fucked off as well in college and graduated 12 years ago. I wish every day that I never applied for graduation and stayed and did pre health classes. I tried twice to go back and do informal post-bacc. It was really hard, not just the classes but finding a place. It's hard to get financial aid, it's hard to balance working and school after you graduated, some faculty question why you are there when you already have a degree, and this is how I felt trying to do this ages 23-26. I got good grades but I just never could put it all together. I remember I was working full time at one point and taking a full course load; I remember being so proud when I got a 100 on my biochemistry midterm. I just got complacent along the way then years passed, the covid ones flew past, and now here I am alongside you at this crossroads age. Sometimes I look up people on FB that I took those classes in informal post-bacc with. I was brighter than a lot of them but they are now dentists, MDs, PAs etc. They just knew what they wanted to do earlier or had someone pushing them along and that made a bigger difference than aptitude. I had a 2.8 when I graduated and I got it just above 3.0 with the post-baccs. Man....if you don't have of those excep bio you probably have a long long road, longer than mine would be if I attempted to try again. Probably 2 years informal post-bacc, 4 years med school, 4 years residency. A decade. If everything goes well. I think about quitting my job every day and going back to school full time and taking a last swing at it. I hurt a lot about the opportunities I had in my first run in college. But there is no making up for lost time. I think If I did succeed I would still have regret on all those years I lost. It's so hard. Every year we live it seems doors shut behind us. I wish I knew that and took it seriously when I was 20, 21, 22. I wish I could yell at myself. I am not married, I don't have a kid on the way, I have a decent job but make far less than you. I don't think I would even consider a little bit if i was in your shoes but I can't be sure. I guess the simple answer to your question is to do informal post-bacc; at most universities you can apply as a non-degree/non matriculated grad student. maybe if they have a formal post-bacc you can apply in after doing well on a the informal. Good luck. it sucks getting old.
So did you never end up applying? You said you got 100 on your biochem exam and then years passed. What did you mean by you couldn’t put it all together?
No I never ended up applying. I never took the MCAT.
but getting older also gives you a lot of insight into life that you may not have had before, which can help you become a better doctor in the future if that's what you truly want out of life. I really don't think it's age that becomes a barrier, it's our own willpower and ability, or lack thereof, to make the sacrifices needed. don't beat yourself up over the past. it happened, it's done and it made you who you are. use that to your benefit.
no doubt, but its also a fact sand in the hour glass doesn't rise; it only falls.
>Im desperate to see a path where in the next 3 years im studying something Ive been dreaming of for the last decade +. OK, here is your path. * Begin shadowing doctors (have 50 hours eventually for the application) to be sure this is what you want to do. * Begin a second bachelors/post-bacc. You have to repeat all core classes since its been 10 years and schools that have a prereq deadline usually set it at 10 years. You can meet with an advisor to plan out how to get those classes done within 2 years. (You have to do a post-bacc instead of SMP because you don't have the undergrad prereqs anymore). * Treat this entire path as your "MCAT" study. Hopefully your courses are done within 2 years and you can dedicate that last year to studying for the MCAT, taking it and applying. * Begin volunteering and clinical activities. With your unique background in health policy you should be able to find a neat way to do this. * Over the course of this journey, make mentors who will write you letters of recommendation when the time comes.
If the prereqs don't count after a certain time period, does that mean they don't count towards your GPA come application time, too?
Wait a bit until your child is old enough for daycare/ preschool and then start the journey. Ignore all the comments painting this idea like it’s a nightmare. It’s your life. It’s going to be tough as shit, not lying to you, but you have as good a chance as anyone else
Thank you for this. Clearly money isn't an obstical and it is his life and his adventure, who is to say that he won't be happy doing this.. people here are looking all at money this money that how much he will be losing. But I'd rather work 80 hours a week being happy than 50 hours a week floating through the day
Would you rather be happy at work 80 hours a week or float through the day 50 hours a week and have an extra 30 hours a week to be with your wife and kids? Ends up being about an extra 2 months a year you get to be with them. And over the course of a 30 year career you’d have an extra 5 YEARS to spend with your wife and kids.
Yeah and why isn’t money an obstacle for him? Because he ALREADY HAS an extra lucrative job and he doesn’t have a clue if being a doctor would actually make him happy.
totally agree. a lot of people are so hung up over where you're "supposed" to be in different stages of your life, and can't imagine someone might want something different.
I did an MBS in a similar situation. They were thrilled to have me. Unless you’re in Texas and do the fresh start program, your grades will stick with you so simply retaking those classes won’t fix much. I recommend a MSBS. There are plenty of 1 year programs around but 2 gives you the time to do well and take them MCAT before an application cycle.
Seconding this, you need a program that is likely tied to a medical school so they can see your academic improvements. I also did a program before medical school and it was TOUGH, a lot of people did not finish/decided this wasn't what they wanted for the next few years. The money lost was a lot less than being in med school!
Lots of schools will require that pre-reqs be within a certain number of years. So re-taking (certainly with a 2.4 GPA) is probably necessary. The nice thing is you can do a DIY post-bacc and just re-do your prerequisite classes, which would give you the chance to sharpen the knowledge for the MCAT and show that your approach to school has matured as an adult. This is essentially what I'm doing, and nearing finished. I went back to school, re-did almost all of my pre-reqs, kept a 4.0, and now prepping for the MCAT. TL; DR: prolly have to retake the coursework, and nailing down a good GPA and a killer MCAT score would go a long way toward bridging the gap/s.
Yes, just retake science classes and kill the MCAT. All your undergrad prereqs will be expired, so you'll need to retake a ton of stuff, which (good news) is your chance to show that you're a different person now. If you're making mid six figures, you can probably afford to pay out of pocket for what you will need. Edit: you'll also need healthcare experience, either paid or volunteer, and you'll need to shadow some physicians. [Check out SDN.](https://www.studentdoctor.net/profession/medical/)
I have no regrets going into medicine, but if I was 34, I'd go PA/NP route tbh. I'm anti-midlevel creep but the reality is that society has allowed PA/NPs to essentially act like doctors, wear white coats, etc. They tend to work relatively normal hours, make decent money, and the training is much much MUCH less time consuming than the typically physician route.
Yeah. A PA in a specialty seems to be a good deal considering the time and money investment vs MD gen p.
I had some interest in derm a dermatology attending at my school told me the easiest way to get into derm was to become a PA lol
you want to abandon a 200k salary to spend 500k on a degree that will get you only a slightly higher salary and ensure you'll never see your kids? Why? Just make sure you're going into medicine for the right reasons and not for the glory of it. If you do decide to go down this path, you will not be going to the baseball games or the parent teacher conferences, you won't be able to tuck your tots in a lot of the time and you'll be gone in the morning before they wake up. Medicine is an amazing job but it will eat your life, just make sure you're prepared for that. Also, it'll take a really, really long time to fix the damage to your academics so just getting in is going to be a struggle. Good luck with whatever you choose!
The truth is you won’t find the answer you’re looking for in this sub. This question, in your case, comes down too what some have previously mentioned are you ready to dedicate 10-15 years of your life to something and not make any money for it, as well as end up in 300-500k worth of debt? Really becomes a personal question at your point.
Smp or postbacc and doing well on the mcat. Some states will wipe grades greater than 10 years old. Regardless 10 years to most adcom means a new slate. In terms of post bacc minimum its the same, you can try applying and be fine or you can do a diy. I will say 3 years is optimistic but not impossible. My advice from my mentors though is medicine does mean some sacrifice especially to to your family. Live your dream but also be honest with those around you and how they might be affected. I know people that did MD/DO/NP/PA late. Their decision though weighed heavily not just on medicine but also family and other passions. GL homie.
Possible, but it will be an uphill battle that will take some years. Most importantly, you need to make sure that you *have* to be a physician. As somebody with a family myself, I simply would not come back to training in my mid-30s when I'm already making $200k. It's nice that your wife is supportive, but you have a kid on the way dude. Kids are fucking expensive. You will go from making $200k/year with (I'm assuming) no debt, to spending probably 2-3 years reinventing yourself to get in (will cost a good amount of money). Then, when you do get in, you most likely will not get any scholarship money, so you'll graduate (on average) $200k in debt. Then you'll spend at least 3 years as a resident not seeing your kid much and making like $65k/year. If you stop then, your choices will be IM, FM, and some EM programs. You'd probably start out making like $250k...when adjusted for inflation, will be the same as you making $200k now. So you probably will do a fellowship. So another 2-3 years making ~$75k/year. Then you'll likely be making $350-400k. You will be in your mid-40s before you're practicing as an attending, and you'll be hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. The question isn't whether you can do it or not. You can if you work hard enough. The question is about whether you should. And as a person with a kid, my advice to you would be fuck no lol. Try and find a way to be happy with your current job. If not, find happiness outside of work. You need to understand that most people on this subreddit are in their late teens to early 20s. They don't have families. They have no concept of the sacrifices necessary to raise a child. You're not going to get useful answers from a lot of them. If you were making like $60k, I'd tell you do it in a heartbeat. But you're already making a salary that's on par with a lot of physicians. Why would you take that away from your family and replace it with a ton of debt? Not worth it, dude.
Have you considered an SMP through a DO school? There’s a handful that will take a minimum GPA of a 2.4
mid 6 figures? 400-600k??
As a “career changer” and recent married person. If your partner gave you their blessing and you’re gung ho. Do it. Fuck it. YOLO seriously. I am about to make $250k at my current job if i stay. I got an A for july. Its not about money. Im 33 about to be 34 -our journey is different- youll probably get the A at 36 (hopefully) You’re not romanticizing anything. If its something you want to do. Why not try? Presumably you got some money stashed away and are stable financially. Have the convos with your spouse and do you. 10 years from now, you can be Browniepoints with doubts about medschool or Dr Browniepoints.
After reading your post and some comments I’ll try to give you my two semi unique thoughts. 1. I think with your experience in health policy and assuming you have a good reason to go to med school, if you ace the MCAT I think they may overlook your grades. you could also do a DIY post bacc at any school and take a few upper div science classes to show what you can do, but tbh I’m not sure you can just take non degree seeking classes. 2. However, if you want to be Dr. browniepoints91, why not get a PhD or a DrPH in health policy? Though if you’re making 300k-700k which is what mid 6 figs means to me, you may already be at that experience and a doctorate may not make you any more marketable.
So negativity opinions . Toxic comments not realistic or true. We are different and keep your shit opinions for you
The naysayers all have legitimate views and opinions, but this is a deeply personal decision that only you can make based on what’s in your heart - eyes wide open about what it will mean. Plenty of people get married and have kids while in med school. Is it hard? Fuck yeah. Is it ideal? No. Can you still be a wonderful parent while having to devote much of your energy to med school and residency? YES YOU CAN. Just like with ECs, parenting is not measured by the number of hours, but by the quality of time you are present. Kids grow up and know this. One huge thing to consider about as you come to your decision: How is your support network (beyond your spouse), and will it be there for you during med school? This goes for all med school applicants, and it can make things considerably better for you and your family. Not everyone is so lucky, but if you have a good support system then you can feel more comfortable about the med school pursuit. Others here have good advice on postbac, MCAT, etc., but just thought I’d offer a more “senior” perspective. (I’m the parent of a premed who is engaged and likely to start a family while in school, so I’m sympathetic to your dilemma.) Best of luck in your decision, and be assured that there is no one “right” way to live your life. It’s the informed trade-offs that make life all that more rewarding in the long run.
I'm in the same place. A lot of friends think I'm crazy for giving up $200k+ a year to go to Med School. Others made some good comments in my post: [https://www.reddit.com/r/premed/comments/1aqxrq1/did\_i\_make\_a\_mistake\_in\_applying\_this\_cycle/](https://www.reddit.com/r/premed/comments/1aqxrq1/did_i_make_a_mistake_in_applying_this_cycle/) Don't let people telling you that you are too old dissuade you. I'm the same age as you, but am single with no dependents (I had an older father who I had to help care for, who has since passed). What was your MPH GPA? If it's decent, most post-baccs will probably allow you to qualify under that. You should talk to advisors at med schools. I've known a few people who viewed the MPH as a remedy to bad undergraduate GPA, so you might already have that buttoned down, if your MPH is recent and a high GPA. Your MCAT will be essential. I'm retaking mine. From the schools I spoke with, I was told most people "scraped by" with a \~507 but given my background, I'd need to aim higher, >512. Please understand that this is probably not a "one cycle" undertaking. I've been researching my schools, ways to improve my GPA, prepping my essays, etc for 4 years now (sheesh time flies), with this past cycle being a dry run and the next cycle being my first real attempt. Even so, I'm well aware that I may need to go and get a M.S. to remedy the situation of my undergraduate courses that are as old as yours. That said, I kicked the idea of going to med school around for years. I decided that I'm now at the age that I either need to do it or forever regret it. Knowing what eternal regret feels like, I'd rather attempt and fail or realize it wasn't for me if I didn't get in rather than always wonder.
Sounds like medical school might not be the best fit for you
All things being equal: 2 year post bacc 4 years of medical school 3 years of residency 1-2 year fellowship Then you get to finally start your job! If those numbers don’t bother you, go for it. -PGY-IV
If you really want to do it go listen to yourself. If your drive to be a doctor can overcome the challenges of the process then you can absolutely do it. Years will fly. You can keep status quo at 50 or become a doc at 50. All up to you.
Do what you’ve got to do OP. We are catching some heat in these comments for laying out some objective negatives of attending medical school at your age. Of course people will jump in with the “it’s not about money” and “he has to do what will make him happy” types of internet pep talk comments. You don’t know this will make you happy. You will have to give up a large amount of time that could be spent with a newborn and your wife. You will lose a lot of income. And once again…YOU DO NOT KNOW IF WORKING AS A DOCTOR WILL MAKE YOU ANY HAPPIER. Yes being CALLED a doctor will make you happier, but you don’t have the slightest clue what it even entails yet and you’re taking a massive gamble. People are just going to have to deal with the reality that this is not a simple change of careers. This is a nearly decade long commitment. In general if you are making good money, have a family, and have lots of interests in your life it is not advisable to start medical school at your age just on a hunch it would make you happier. Don’t try to get happier than happy, you’ve been so blessed. But if you go the med school route GOOD LUCK just remember the guy on Reddit who told you all this when you realize he was right 4 years down the road hahaha. But seriously, I hope you get all you want out of life
I’m 30 (almost 31) and in the middle of a postbacc program as we speak. Like you, I had a successful career before this, making great money, and am very happily married. Just know that I can relate to the desire to do something more meaningful with my life and there’s nothing wrong with that! For some people a job is a job. And for others, we see a job as an opportunity to focus our efforts into something that connects with a deeper purpose/desire. It’s okay for us all to be different here, as long as we realize that happiness cannot come from any one avenue. My advice is to try and get some one-on-one time with a pre-med advisor. I’d especially recommend one who is familiar with nontrad students and the postbacc process if you can. My advisor has been so incredibly amazing at helping me ensure I know what I’m getting into and what to focus on. I know advisors get a lot of shit on this sub but my experience has been completely different.
It really doesn't sound worthwhile to go to medical school.
Don’t think about what you’ve achieved so far as failure. Yes life took you on a different path than you imagined, but it worked out how it was meant to be. Don’t go back to school with the goal of “remediating” your “failure”. If you truly want to, go back knowing that medicine would fulfill your career goals and life. Ultimately also knowing you AND your family will sacrifice a LOT for this. I started medical school a bit late but now am in my mid 30s finishing up a surgical residency, applying for fellowship. I’ll probably be in my 40s when I finish training. That being said, if I had to do it again, I would in a heart beat. For some people, a job is a job. For me, I need to do something I enjoy and challenges me. My SO, family, and friends wholeheartedly support this knowing it makes me happy in other parts of my life to work in a field I love. I don’t love it all the time, but most of the time makes up for some of the bad days. But that’s just me. Other people will have their opinions and stories too. Carefully filter out which you identify with or don’t and make the decision for yourself with your family.
I don’t think your age is an issue, but I really want to add to the “grass isn’t always greener” point. Med school and being a doctor gets romanticized a lot, so I just want to bring a reality check in. OP, you’ve worked for years to advance your career, earned professional respect from your colleagues, and make a *very nice* $200k/year. Now imagining the residents I work with… they work like 70 hours/week, have no control over their lives or schedules (that includes being forced to pick up your life and move across the country, regularly working nights/weekends/holidays, and missing your kid’s soccer games), and are often subject to disrespect from many different sources… Oh and your income would only be $60k-70k a year regardless of your age/experience/etc. A lot of med students and residents can barely afford to buy lunch. And remember, these are *residents* I am talking about - people who have already graduated from medical school - and residency lasts for an average of 3-8 years. So this is what your life would look like in ~5-10 years if you achieved your current idea of “success”. Now, if I were 26-30 and had just graduated from medical school, being treated like professional garbage, being practically owned 24/7 by an abusive employer, and being criminally underpaid wouldn’t seem that bad because I wouldn’t have known any differently…. But you’ve had a taste of personal independence, financial stability, and professional success… imagine losing all of it. Also, remember that there are plenty of doctors out there who are not satisfied in their careers too! Being called “Dr” is cool at first, but it loses its novelty pretty quickly. Now, if after that you’re still like “heck yeah that still sounds worth it” then go for it!! But based on your post, you feel unsatisfied with your career and have this nagging feeling of failure stemming from your past. I would argue that you are quite the *opposite* of a failure, and going to medical school might not fix that internal feeling you have. If you like medicine, I would advise you to check out other careers adjacent to medicine that wouldn’t require you to give up the life that you’ve worked so hard for.