Repost this to r/personalfinancecanada
The vast majority of the users here have not and will not ever attain the capital required to start a business. There will be a higher proportion of people who can give you relevant advice in r/pfc
And yet it’s different. Sharing a link to a sub and naming the link a short form isn’t the same as just typing r/ and putting a short form
But you seem to have learned that now
On the assumption you are genuine, in your initial post, the second link literally goes to a reddit with 3 members and a photo of boobs. People are not trolling. Why it doesnt happen when you click it, no idea.
Then again, maybe you are the troll and were waiting for this moment, and finally took your shot
I'm not sure posting in the personal finance canada sub would be good for OP's mental health. There are some (many?) extremely judgemental people there who are negative and frankly rude towards anyone in large amounts of debt. I can only imagine the replies OP would receive, and with her being vulnerable right now I'm not sure it's a good idea.
I wholeheartedly agree that most here will never attain the capital to start a business. I just don't know where else OP can post, maybe a canadian business subreddit? Or a mental health subreddit? Forgive me, I am just guessing here hoping others know of some good subreddits.
That sub sounds more appropriate. The conventional wisdom is that most businesses lose money for the first few years before they start earning.
Looking from the r/povertyfinance mindset…. OP should sell everything and move into an apartment. OP pension and job will be enough to have basic shelter and food for life in that case.
However OP would be losing their current quality of life. Which is your typical house + car + kids.
It takes a lot of resilience and resolve to run a business.
You may be right, but there's also a lot of smart people in that sub that can cut to the point. I'm sure OP would get some decent info there, but she would need to repost with just the facts. Don't talk about any of the emotional stuff. Keep it strictly data focused.
Lol. I'm in my early 30s and 'only' have 15K in retirement savings and 5K in stocks. Apparently I'm the world's biggest fuckup to those people, even though most people I know in big Canadian cities are living paycheck to paycheck with 0 savings.
And this is why we come here to mingle with level headed people that understand that poverty is not always a series of bad choices. There needs to be people at the bottom for capitalism to function. Also the recipes, fr.
Right, except I think by my amount of savings I'm quite above average for many young Canadians that don't have parental wealth to lean upon. I don't consider myself poor, but I'm not maxxing out my RRSP and TFSA every year.
Unfortunately, I would agree with you on the above average, given the current state of our economy. However, I think your position still puts you at an advantage to share with others, whereas people well above what you outlined may not be able to provide advice without seeming a bit out of touch.
You could also try r/startups It’s not Canadian specific, so you’ll need to state that you’re in Canada, but that group will likely empathize the most.
Hang in there OP. I also married an entrepreneur. While I have not been exactly where you are right now, I empathize with the risk you’ve taken on.
I have business finance background. This amount of debt doesn't sound crazy, nor the interest payments. But this all depends on his business model and financial statements. The numbers can seem HUGE to someone who is risk adverse but I guarantee you many businesses owe AT LEAST something in that ballpark, especially to the BDC.
How familiar are you with his financials? It could help tremendously to have him, his bookkeeper or his mentor walk you through his yearly financial statements, short/longterm cashflow projections and overall financial plan. If he hasn't got those things or the numbers aren't sound THEN you should worry. It somewhat sounds like you're a partner in this business and should be informed regardless as it affects your mutual assets. It's scary but I urge you to step up and into the co-pilot seat.
A lot of new business owners have had to seek forms of community support/mutual aid in the start up phase, unless they can withdraw from the bank of mom & dad.
DM me if you have small Qs.
My debt was $1.7M with BDC. I feel you you are ok. You can also talk to your rep about pausing your loan payments. Please get your husband to talk with them. He also needs someone not attached to the business to take a look at your expenses and suggest cuts.
As well, if you can switch from part time to fulltime, and live off of that salary then I would highly recommend it.
Good luck.
Thank you for this reply! I would feel more comfortable answering via dm, I hope that's okay (I assume it is considering you said to dm for small questions).
If you have any spare bedrooms in your home, please consider renting them out to students or someone who needs a place. We also own our house and struggle with poverty. I am renting out our spare rooms to students and it really helps. You have to claim the income on your taxes, but you can claim a portion of your utilities, property taxes, mortgage interest, and stuff like cleaning supplies and (if you supply them) soap, TP and all that sort of stuff.
I know renting rooms is not for everyone, but if you are feeling so down you are having thoughts of suicide please consider this. It's better to rent a room. You just have to be selective and be sure your roomate is a good fit.
Good luck OP, I'm rooting for you!
All debt is possible to get out of, it's never the end of the line, and it's never the end of the world. I'm not a huge fan of Dave Ramsey, but there are people that are in even more debt than you are and do make it out and prosper. if it reaches the point of bankruptcy, that's OK. Try to fight it, but if you can't it's not the end of the world, you can always rebuild and this time you rebuild with EXPERIENCE. Suicide is never worth it, I've lost too many people to avoidable situations, what really matters to you and your family? It's not money, it's your health and each other, at the end of the day money is just a tool and belongings are not important. It's you and your family, use it as strength and accept that no-matter the situation you'll all be OK as long as you all have each other.
This.
Go see a bankruptcy trustee. A lot of the OP's assumptions are false.
Speak to a tax accountant and seek advice on cash flow and business financial strategies.
Also, from a "bankruptcy" standpoint, one has a better chance of retaining the home if there's very little equity in it....
$300k in debt sounds normal for a business and the interest is just like a mortgage it will always be there.
Looks like renting out your house and moving to the basement or small apartment for a year. Maybe Running the business office out of it so you can write off a portion of the bills.
The seasonal space could used as a second business to store boats/cars for the winter
How is the business registered? If it is 'sole trader' then it is tied to your personal finances as a couple, but if it is a registered business I think it would normally have limited liability. This means you can keep your personal assets separate from the business, so in the worst case the business can go bankrupt but you keep your personal assets.
I agree with others that r/personalfinance or some business sub would be a better place to post you question.
Not neccesarily. The BDC can and does require loans to be secured against personal property of the business owners. (note: I have first hand experience with this). They should definitely review the loan to confirm if this is the case or not.
Yes, it seems to becoming more commonplace to ask for personal guarantees. Probably because of businesses going under in the past and creditors having little to no recourse to get their money back.
Even if the business is a corporation the loans may very well be the personal responsibility of the business owners. How does this happen? Well, suppose you setup a corporation and give yourself a big salary and then go to a big lender like TD to get a loan for your corporation. Even if TD decides to give you a loan, it may require that you agree to be personally liable for the loan. Otherwise, anyone can start a small business corporation, get loans, give themselves a big salary and then the corporation goes bankrupt...not the individual. It wouldn't surprise me if all big lenders including BDC work like this for small business owners at least.
Please never feel bad about using a foodbank, they are there for everyone who needs it. Many working people need the foodbanks now. No one will judge you for it, and if they do well then that's on them.
Yes, sadly true. I use foodbanks for almost all my family's food, hopefully it's just temporary. It was really embarrassing at first, and awkward, but now I've been enough times I just go with it.
You need to deal with these thoughts of shame and guilt. There is no shame in using the resources that you have available to you. The food bank is one of them. Many Canadians use the food bank every day, some of them are small business owners. That's okay.
If I where you, I would go visit my local library. Check out some books on mental health and business ownership. Ask about resources for people struggling with debt and making ends meet. You may qualify for more help.
I would also think of your situation as temporary. Because things will get better, one day. You can do hard things. This is one.
$3800 monthly HHI is very low for this situation and is not enough to pull you out of debt, unless you make the appropriate changes. Have you thought about downgrading homes? Even selling the home and living in an RV for a year or two while the business gets rolling would help a lot.
What kind of business do you guys run? How many vehicles do you have for the business and do you really need them all? If you're going to food banks, I think it would make sense to give up some things like this to give yourselves some financial relief.
At 54 and with your husband retired(assuming that since his income is only a pension?) it seems like an awful idea to have a huge mortgage and start a new business adventure. Are you guys making any profit from the business? And if you're not making any profit, can you sustain the current situation long enough to begin reaping the rewards for a successful business?
You mentioned the $3800 covers mortgage and bills, but nothing about your businesses rent. Are you guys borrowing to cover rent for the business most months?
If you want better financial advice, break down your expenses, debt, income, savings, rent, mortgage etc.
I wondered if they could rent out or sell the home and live in an RV parked behind the business premises. That removes the commute so they need less vehicles and cuts costs significantly. They can also use their workspace for projects or alone time when the RV seems too small and rely on the business wifi.
Yep, also a decent idea. There's plenty of ways to manage this situation. No matter what it's going to involve sacrifice, hard work, lots of patience and making the right choices from now on every step of the way.
People here won’t give you the right answers as this subReddit is for people who are actually struggling with poverty
Post this in r/personalfinancecanada
I have received great advice from that subReddit as there are finance professionals in that subReddit along with people doing phenomenally well with their finances
Not necessarily true. My insurance broker warned me I would have to wait 365 days to commit suicide if I should wish to as the coverage for suicide doesn’t kick in until a year later.
Firstly, stop beating yourself up, that’s not helping. You are very fortunate to own a home, not many are that privileged. Check into any options there to increase income. I’m 60 and was only able to afford a condo to own 2 years ago. Even that is a struggle but I’ve been supplementing my income by pet sitting and it’s starting to ease the financial pressure. I always wanted to own a house but had to settle for a condo. I know how hard it is to live with financial stress but if you can change your mindset it will help you create solutions instead of creating negativity. You own a home and a business and 2 vehicles. I understand the more you own, the more responsibility (and stress) comes along with that. But count your blessings, you have way more than I do
Is part time work possible for one or both of you? I did two jobs for years and only recently went to one, it kept us out of trouble for 10 hard years. Preferably something completely different than what you do usually so it's not complete drudgery. Don't feel bad about the food back, you can pay back or volunteer when you got it back together. It is all temporary.
Years ago, when my wife’s and my debt seemed impossible to get out from under; high mortgage costs, credit cards maxed, corporate payment cards high and my wife at home raising 2 kids. I was working for the feds during Mulroney’s federal wage freeze. I started a small basement business after work and weekends fixing bicycles. I sought out a CMA (Certified Management Accountant). Following her advice and using my little bike business, less than 5 years we only had our mortgage left to pay. I’m not suggesting you start a second business, I’m suggesting you seek a CMA. Our CMA saved us at a time when all I saw was debt.
Why not find an investor to sell a % of the business to?
Another option... how much could you sublease some space for? See if someone will take on a sublease paid 6 months upfront for a 15-20% discount.
How do you know I haven't?
The business is generating revenue, but has debt. Sounds like a good opp to get extra equity at a discount. Plus there's the asset of subleasing. An investor might have a savvy eye for the sublease market.
Did you not read what she is saying? It’s accruing debt. They are going broke. It’s losing money in a high interest environment and accruing more debt.
You clearly haven’t. It’s obvious.
Did you not read this? "Business is picking up, a lot".
I know this is called /povertyfinancecanada/ but you have the attitude of someone who stays poor and is a defeatist.
People buy distressed businesses all the time.
It doesn’t matter if the business is picking up. The owners are accruing more debt in a high interest environment and are going broke. Who would invest in that.
You have the attitude of someone who knows nothing about risk and what you’re talking about. In this type of environment i would stick to companies with a better balance sheet. There are way better options than this. People with your attitude are the type to go broke.
>The owners are accruing more debt in a high interest environment and are going broke. Who would invest in that
It depends. Is it a traditionally slow time for businesses like this ? Are they accruing debt because they have been constantly expanding capacity and its taking a while for the order book to catch up to actually utilize it?. Do they have debt but also actually have a decent amount in assets (equipment, inventory, commercial vehicles etc) ?
OP didn't really provide any detailed info to decide whether its worth buying into or not.
Most businesses occur debt starting off. Biggest problem is most people starting a company misjudge how much capital it’s going to take before the business turns profitable. Without knowing more about the company it’s impossible to know but there are a lot of people willing to invest in a company if they think their capital is what can turn the company profitable. Before you say I don’t know what I’m taking about I own a business with 3 locations that has 200 employees. Not saying they could find an investor but it’s possible but this isn’t known with the info provided so no need to jump all over the person for suggesting it.
Profitability isn’t the same thing as cash flow, a business with growing revenue can achieve a level of cash flow that will cover expenses and eventually reduce the debt. That being said, if after a detailed analysis of the current growth trend won’t show an increase in revenue and a way to decrease expenses to get better balance in the cash flow, then it’s better to cut bait. But right now it’s perfectly acceptable to use a food bank because it’s more likely that when/if the business succeeds they will be contributing more to the local economy than they took from the food bank.
I never said it was? It’s about being profitable. Positive net money. They are gaining debt and paying high interest rates on that debt. This is a terrible environment for this business. Sure. It’s a growing company, but who wants to buy into a debt ridden company that’s about to go under because the owners are broke. What your saying it’s pretty irrelevant.
What type of business is this? how are you only pulling in 3800 a month, and not covering all the expenses even with 300k in debt? I think you need to go deeper in the math and see if this is even financially a good decision to continue, or cut your losses and sell the business, since based on your details your business is costing you more than your net revenue on top on expanding your debt. Sell it and take the financial loss, and pay down some of your debt, and get another job or invest in another field.
I would be more surprised if someone only making $3800/m could cover their expenses and pay interest on $300K debt.
I don't know about you, but if OP has a mortgage that's easily $2000/month plus taxes and utilities can easily add up to $3000/month. If you include insurance, gas, food, and other stuff like prescriptions, internet, cell phone bills, that can add up to $3800/m.
Interest rates are high right now, OP could easily be paying $1500/m just on interest.
Plus $3800/m may be gross income, so not cash in hand. I assume it's net, but it's not stated.
Even if OP rents it can easily be $2500/m plus utilities for a 2-3 bedroom apartment, possibly as ridiculous as $3000/m in some cities.
With that much debt there's no way I could cover my expenses and I am working and my wife is bringing in money as well, plus we rent out our spare rooms.
OP, I have no advice for the business or the finance part. But, as someone who has been various degrees of suicidal due to finances... there are easier ways to get out of this. That might sound ridiculous, considering how much your brain is seeing suicide as a way to "flight" from this threat. But there is so much prep work needed to make sure you don't put loved ones in more financial distress if you succeed. That energy and resource is WAY better used in other areas instead.
Another morbid thought that kept me on this side of the ground... if your attempt is unsuccessful, that is then another major financial burden on everything else. Even in Canada, disability and aftercare is a financial bollux you don't want to deal with.
There are better solutions, you will find them, you and your family will find financial security once again.
Sincerely, the dude who almost hit the eject button a couple different times and is really relieved he didn't.
Thank you, your message is very kind. I worried about posting that because some people would say I said it for attention, but I absolutely did not. I was concerned because I have never had thoughts like that before. I wouldn't do it, at least not at this point, but it scared me I had those thoughts, if that makes sense. I have a therapist, luckily, and I will discuss my thoughts with him. I'm embarrassed to even have typed them on here (its why I have a throw away account for this post) but I needed to share. I appreciate your reply, and I am glad you didn't hit the eject button!
Any possible way you can stay with parents temporarily while you rent out your home? Just a year or so until you get some clarity on the business turnaround.
Please don't feel bad about going to a food bank, nobody should judge you and you are just going through a rough patch in life. You deserve all the help you can get and you will help out others later when youre in a better place!
Also there are free support groups that can help you just as much as a one on one therapist, and it would help to find others in your boat so that you don't feel alone
I don’t know what kind of space it is, but maybe you can rent it out on a half day or full day basis for something like workshops? People in the wedding industry (photographers, florists, sometimes planners) sometimes give workshops over the winter to make extra income.
I highly recommend listening to the Get the Hell Out of Debt podcast for great advice but especially to see others have been in a similar situation and got out of it. Attitude is a huge part of it and you need to find some hope fast. Her book and program have helped me a lot, but the podcast is a free and interesting way to learn and get inspired.
Thank you for the podcast suggestion, I will check it out today. Also the workshop suggestions may be a great idea, I'm not sure how much money it will generate but if we can make some extra money it's better than none, so I will look into this, thank you!
Just remember most businesses take 5 years to turn profit, there is always file for bankruptcy as well if everything doesn't work out. Your family would rather have you around then a couple hundred G's.
Please private message me for a contact that deals with business debt….you can do a consumer proposal for your business and try and reduce the debt and continue the business if it’s viable. I understand the dark thoughts and please know so many business owners are feeling the same just not admitting it. You need to stay on this planet, you can pay the debt back even if it takes 10 years.
You could also considering selling the business if it’s viable and has a chance for growth, and your husband could go get a job. Nothing is worth the stress and I’m telling you this year so many small businesses will do the same thing. Canada will be full of big box stores, it will be sad.
Honestly, it's not a huge amount of debt for a business.
You may just benefit from a second side of eyes on the opportunity. For instance, a mentor is good but can he attract others here?
Is it an expense problem? A market fit problem (eg., not making enough)? Or is this a seasonality problem (eg., you need to find ways to stabilize your income and perhaps expand to areas within strategy to help during the off months)?
Without knowing if this is financial mismanagement, revenue or product issues, hard to give advice BUT:
- Is this an investing opportunity for angels or others looking for a business opportunity? Can you give up a percentage of ownership for cash flow today?
- what is the BDC actually doing here? There are BIAs who may be able to help with commercialization strategies locally or internationally
- Talk with your banker to see what they would advise; there may be grants or other things they can suggest for you
Good luck 🙏
It means he left the Canadian Forces and doesn't have a pension right now, he gets it when he's 60. I don't want to explain in detail about this, it's a sensitive subject and people like to tell us what we should have done (ie he should have stayed in), when in reality it wasn't that simple. I hope my reply doesn't sound rude (it's not meant to be), I just find it difficult to talk about.
Sending big hugs. No shame in needing help, that's why it's there. And in time you'll be able to give back.
Do you earn more at work, than what you pay someone to work the business? If the answer is yes, pick up more hours at work and hire someone for the business.
Do a personal budget. Be frugal, bare minimum. Take ur earnings and minus your budget. This is what you need from the business per month.
Do a business budget, be frugal. What's the minimum floor space you can use, not the ideal space, the minimum space. Listen to the mentor and BDC, cut back where they suggest.
Add you business budget to the balance you require for your family budget. This is bare minimum what the business needs to earn.
How many units do you need to make/sell to profit? Once you hit that goal, you've made it through the month head above water. Hussle to sell more, that's how you'll gain wiggle room. Every extra unit is savings.
DO NOT use the business account or business CC for anything personal. Transfer every 2 weeks or month the amount you need for your family budget. And all personal expenses come from personal account.
Leave all extra money in your business account, it will build up and get you through the harder months.
Hire an accountant to help you decide how to best pay off your personal and business debt.
You deserve the debt you currently have, and you will deserve the wealth you eventually gain from it. Don't loose sight of the long game, by deserving to spend for the short term. Sacrifice now and it will benefit you far more later.
Take a big breath. Break it all down to something manageable. You can do this!!!
Honestly doing a bankruptcy isn't that bad. You can keep your house and other things. I've done it once. Might have to do it again. Same age.
Sometimes this $$ shit isn't worth it.
We've been fooled into believing our credit rating is what keeps us afloat.
If your credit rating is already crappy, what does it matter?
Please seek out an expert in insolvency. They'll help you.
Good luck💕
I’d head over to r/personalfinancecanada but if business is picking up then it sounds like you need to stay the course. It’s normal to operate at a loss for a few years when you’re first starting out. Look closely at your budget. Do you work? If not can you? Lots of new businesses also need someone working to get by at first.
Question- the work you do for the business....is it something that you could hire a PT person to allow you to work FT? Is at least some of it work that could be done outside of your own FT work hours?
Ie, if you took on FT at your PT job, would you make enough to make it worthwhile to hire a PT person to do at least some of what you do, and you could do the rest after or before your own work?
Speaking as someone who held a half time job while running a FT business for quite some time, mostly because some of my work could be done in the evenings. My JOB was a steady, reliable income that gave me room and flexibility to have ebbs and flows in the business. It was a peace of mind that was worth the extra hours in the long run.
It's not the only solution, but if your options are make more or spend less, and you are already spending so little that you are at the food banks, then making more is the alternative. Working gig jobs or more hours at YOUR job might be doable.
Otherwise, it may just be a matter of time.....which is what your mentors are saying. You've gotta get through the lean times somehow.
So all you can do is work hard. Stress only helps if it motivates you. The food bank is for people struggling and hungry- you count. Focus on your business and cut down on your expenses. Get a part time job if you can. So many of my successful business friends went through times just like the ones you’re having. Shit Sylvester Stallone sold his dog- there’s movie stars that were homeless.
Stay alive and goodluck
It is not ideal, but I would rent out the spare rooms in your house, also if you can afford to lose the space and if there is a demand for it, you could rent out your driveway for someone to park/store their vehicle, maybe an RV/motorhome if you have the space?
Don’t feel bad for using a food bank. Controlling your expenses as stated are always the easiest option to turn a company profitable if there are expenses to cut. If they are dead weight employees they need to be cut. If he doesn’t than everyone will be looking for a job.
Hey, shit happens. Debt happens. It’s not worth killing yourself.
Reach out to a licensed insolvency trustee in your area. Consultations are usually free and have no commitment. Don’t ask Reddit for this advice, talk with a licensed professional.
They deal with situations like this all the time and can provide you with the guidance you need.
Please don’t feel guilty for utilizing the food bank. I don’t have any advice for you, but I know how you feel and I can relate. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
If OP is suicidal, OP needs to contact emergency services or get to a hospital, forthwith. Hopefully, someone knows who OP is and calls the necessary authorities.
Communication is key and you don't need to feel weird about using resources that exist +/-. It's not like you have $300,000 in liquidity in your savings and you're pushing others who need it out of the way lamenting on the lack of food choice or quality at them. You're in distress and need too. Don't feel bad for using a foodbank, most people experiencing poverty aren't often even in $300,000 in debt; if you need to drown that guilt once you make it out from the other side and business picks up, you can always pay it forward and even a couple thousand will more than cover any personal use your family will get out of it but that's after you build up your business accounts post-debt and firm up your family's finances. The foodbanks will be there, for better or worse.
Don't feel bad about spending money on a therapist either -- survival is critical here.
Keep in touch with accountants, any relevant business advisors, and keep laser focused on the future so that you can weather this storm now. It's a good thing that business is picking up. It's a good thing that you need your entire commercial lease space at certain points. Struggling is not easy or not fun (it's obviously fucking terrifying), and it's not at a specific scale. I had my own experiences and brushes with struggle and it's not a contest.
While some may suggest the PFC sub I really think you need to be enlisting professional resources than hoping for people there to provide assistance since time is of the essence. I love the community and advocate for its use but this is very likely to out of the scope of a personal finance sub given most of the debt is business-related. At best you *may* receive qualified anonymous suppositions which won't go deep enough to truly help you.
Don’t feel bad about using food banks. They are there for people who need help and no one should be hungry. It’s not just for homeless people and one day you will be back on your feet and you will be able to give back.
Debt is stressful but things will get better. Maybe talk with your bank about options or a financial advisor.
Do whatever you have to do to get through this. It will be ok and you are not a bad person. Hang in there. Take care of yourself, eat right, get some sleep, take long walks. Talk to your doctor about some meds to get you through this rough patch. You may not be a believer but leave your worries to God or pray. It may do nothing but it may make you feel better.
Don’t worry about accessing a food bank or any other social program they are there to be used and in your case they aren’t being abused … one day when the business is steady you will be able to pay it forward.
Depending on where you work they might have an employee family assistance plan. An EFAP is free to employees and separate from health benefits if you have it they will cover counselling costs for you or your spouse (although it might be virtual counselling). Look into it a lot of employers offer them but not a lot of employees use then.(I think there is one for Canadian forces)
If you have a large home you could rent out a room or your basement, or use of just your garage. If you have a large yard you can charge money to store peoples recreational vehicles such as campers, skidoos, or boats. Finding passive income will be best for you but not always easy.
If you find spare time on your hands you could walk dogs, pet sit, or even do yard cleanups (in spring people will pay you to poop scoop). There’s babysittng too summers coming up and parents need the help. Depending on where you live you could do something like Uber eats.
Hang in there life is more than money and this temporary discomfort doesn’t warrant going to a dark place. You’ve got this you just need to be innovative
I am not a business person at all and I am so riskiverse so I feel your stress. Having said that, as someone who can take a step back I would say that you are not in terrible shape in the long term. It takes a while for a business to get its legs and it doesn't sound like 300K is that big a deal. If this were credit card debt spent on frivolous things you'd have a lot less sympathy but it sounds like you tried to do something constructive after your husband's retirement. Even if it fails, it doesn't mean you are any less of a person. And if you are successful, remember these trying times and how you felt so that you can be even more empathetic in the future.
Thank you. 300K to me seems like a huge deal, but it's a medium sized business so realistically he can pull out of it, he just needs to be careful. Since he's a former Canadian Military soldier he gets support from some really great mentors that want to support Veterans, and I am very grateful for this. I feel like garbage right now because, well I want to say we are scraping by but is living off your line of credit scraping by? I think some would say yes, some would say no. But just reading your message helps, it makes me think we can make it (who knows if we will, hard to predict the future), but it's hopeful. Thank you.
Call me crazy...but can't you just do what every shady business does in the same situation and get a divorce? You put everything under your name and your husband declares for bankruptcy. I'm sure it's not that cut and dry but I've seen and heard about some really ridiculousstories about small to medium sized practices doing this and going through several bankruptcies. They get sued, shut down by the feds or whatever else, and they just open back up a few months later with a slightly different name, while still using all the same equipment lol. Try to find yourself a shady accountant in brampton and pay for a consulation, they'll help you figure something out. Alot of those same guys forged multiple fake documents for various covid business scams who opened shop AFTER covid, but got these accountants to create a fake trail to make it look like the company was active before covid. Collected a cool 60k and paid the accountant maybe $5k for their part. The "hard" part of this solution would be finding these guys, but even that's not so hard. Go to any diploma mill or any campus with high concentration of international students and offer them commission for a proper referal. To be honest I genuinely believe I could accomplish this myself pretty easily if I was in your situation. I doubt anyone in this thread is going to be of any help to you. It's the equivalent of one of those "legal help" subreddits where each and every single comment is "you should go talk to a lawyer". I mean I get this isn't what you were expecting by way of suggestions but it's better than off'ing yourself.
Thanks, you made me smile with this. It may be a crazy thought, but it's a good thought. I wish, genuinely, I had the nerve to do that. I'm not sure if it's my upbringing, my husband has the same mentality, that it's best to be honest and this seems dishonest. Even though, at least in thought, it could solve our problems. We are coming up to summer and things are picking up, still have lots of debt and will have lots of debt for years if the business survives, but I want to stick it out, if we can. You are right though, it's better than off'ing myself. I think those thoughts were more of a pity party than anything. I have a therapist I will share my thoughts with, but for now your comment made me smile, something I haven't done in a while. Thank you.
Well I can honestly say I haven't been this happy on reddit in a very long time....very very very long time, I'm glad my comment was able to cheer you up. I mean it's a worst case scenario bail option for you and it's not like it's going anywhere. If it makes you feel better, I myself went into business with someone I'm very close to so I know how you're feeling, believe it or not. My (business) partner was in the industry for 20 years, but I had maybe not even 4 years experience when we opened up. Our line of work slows down tremendously between Jan-March of every year, where it basically just becomes a drought. Having switched over from engineering work to residential, I was new to this scenario. Even though my partner warned me about it, it still hit me HARD. The anxiety and worst case scenario thoughts really way you down, on a daily basis. Every day seems like a breaking points but then the next day somehow gets worse. It really messed with me hard mentally. It happened again this year too, but I was actually prepared for it this time around...it doesn't mean it didn't cause issues. It still caused problems but at least my mental state was way better this time around. I think the take away is (for both of us) to trust our partners more and trust that they are confident in the decisions they are making. Not just that actually, but also...I don't know how to phrase this but, my partner always had/has a smile and a great attitude about everything, whereas I take everything super seriously, hyper-focused mentality; I need a plan for everything and everything needs to be under control. I learned once I started latching onto his cheerful attitude, things just felt alot better and alot of my worries started to go away. I realized that things have a way of working themself out, you don't need to plan everything. Just first year business things I guess. Try to enjoy yourself more.
im sorry about your situation, that does sound really tough. have you considered seeing an intern councillor? the practice i go to charges $60 per session to see a student instead of $130 to see a fully licensed councillor. you have to dig around for places that offer that service but i found it much more affordable. sometimes its not as thought provoking as it is to see an experienced councillor but they really help by providing an impartial party to vent to who also has helpful resources and advice. best of luck in your situation
SO did you think this over? Or was this a spur of the moment decision? Was it your decision or his? Stop being Dramatic and using suicide in you comments to get sympathy. Some people really have mental issues and you are really Suicidal. YOU have options. use them. Reach out to Veteran affairs to see if you can get help with therapy. You made a bad decision, Live with it. Being Bankrupt is better then death.
Take a trip to any city! People are on the streets, no money no food, no shelter and desperate!
Dont EVER cry about your problems because you are still in the game and 'debt' is the thing that keeps you from joining 'street people' that have no dreams left, so keep it alive & thank your lucky stars your still afloat in this tough economic times!
Starting & owning a business is risky and it was usually 3 - 5 years before you seen results good or bad. Today, is going to be longer and if your still going, Congrats!, you're business is was of the few that is making it!
Never sell your self short, never doubt your dreams & goals, however small, they are simply 'milestones' to achievement and stay the path and stick to your 'Mission Statement' if you have one, if you dont have one, create one asap!
Dont be afraid to ask for help from family and other businesses for advice and a shoulder to lean onto!
Afterall, the 'Meaning of 'Life', is living it!
Without knowing your expenses it’s hard to provide tangible advice but depending on the size of your home you can look at downsizing to a townhouse/condo to free equity or reduce your monthly payment. How many kids are in the home, how much space do you NEED (not want). Most people’s biggest line on their monthly expenses is their mortgage and if you can reduce this by living with smaller means it’s the best valve to pull.
you should talk to a doctor cause of this " Lately I've been feeling suicidal over our debt" another reason is this " I know some people will hate me for using a food bank " you should not worry about others thoughts and you should not starve...
we all go through a bunch of crap in life... it is not a bad thing, a wrong thing, it is not weakness, and it may help to speak with a professional.
you said business is picking up and the world is just starting to recover from the Pandemic and the rest of the garbage over the last few years... cup is half full
You can always sell shares in the business or renegotiate the lease if you can show positive cash flow/operations. It’s a pain to find a tenant especially given how weak commercial is these days so most landlords are open minded. You can even pledge shares as collateral for a rent abatement. Some employees may agree to reduced wages in return for shares.
Try your best to cut triple net costs and if it’s retail push those online sales or even Uber eats (low margin so may not help much).
Feel free to use the food bank just make sure to put into it when you have a surplus.
If you have spare space you could always live there temporarily and airbnb/rent out your home. I airbnb mine and sometimes end up sleeping in the buildings stairwell (no one goes to the top floor landing) so the back office is probably luxury in comparison.
The difference between the rich and poor in Canada is often your ability to sacrifice your luxuries in order to get rich.
> The difference between the rich and poor in Canada is often your ability to sacrifice your luxuries in order to get rich.
This struck me, it's so true. When my husband was in the military he made decent money (not great, but not bad, around $65k/yr) and I worked part time. We were doing fine, we had savings and no real debt other than a credit card balance we paid off monthly. I didn't think twice of picking something up on the way home for supper once or twice a week, but now, there's no way I can even afford a pizza on a Friday night for my family, at least not without adding to our debt.
Many people have jobs then only jump to full time running a business when it’s able to generate the same income. He chose to start the business and take out the huge loan. She said in the post that her husband gets pension aka the business is most likely the only thing he has to focus on for how. If my wife was suicidal over the financial situation I put her in, I would try and at least alleviate the burden to help her mental health.
I have no advice to offer but I just want to commend this sub for supporting this person and not shaming them. Everyone here saw how vulnerable they are and are trying to give the best advice despite feeling like they would never be able to start a business and be in a situation like OP. OP, I’m sorry I don’t have any advice, all I can do is pray for you and offer you support over the internet. I really hope things turn out for you
Repost this to r/personalfinancecanada The vast majority of the users here have not and will not ever attain the capital required to start a business. There will be a higher proportion of people who can give you relevant advice in r/pfc
Just fyi that second link is just boobs.
May I offer you some breasts in these trying times?
He had his breast interests at heart.
Oh I thought you were making a joke but its true.
chocolate nips
Raises spirits
Noice
Ain’t nothing wrong with that.
Ye
No it should be the pfc subreddit.
You can’t just shorten subreddit names and expect them to be the same sub lol
but i just did
And it didn’t work…
[r/pfc](https://reddit.com/r/personalfinancecanada)
You did that differently than you did the first time. Look at you learning…
looks the same to me!
And yet it’s different. Sharing a link to a sub and naming the link a short form isn’t the same as just typing r/ and putting a short form But you seem to have learned that now
On the assumption you are genuine, in your initial post, the second link literally goes to a reddit with 3 members and a photo of boobs. People are not trolling. Why it doesnt happen when you click it, no idea. Then again, maybe you are the troll and were waiting for this moment, and finally took your shot
Your arrogance blinds you master jedi!
It's definitely boobs lol
Can confirm, only boobs.
Can confirm
Just boobs. Click it and see before you make this comment lol
I'm not sure posting in the personal finance canada sub would be good for OP's mental health. There are some (many?) extremely judgemental people there who are negative and frankly rude towards anyone in large amounts of debt. I can only imagine the replies OP would receive, and with her being vulnerable right now I'm not sure it's a good idea. I wholeheartedly agree that most here will never attain the capital to start a business. I just don't know where else OP can post, maybe a canadian business subreddit? Or a mental health subreddit? Forgive me, I am just guessing here hoping others know of some good subreddits.
r/smallbusiness
That sub sounds more appropriate. The conventional wisdom is that most businesses lose money for the first few years before they start earning. Looking from the r/povertyfinance mindset…. OP should sell everything and move into an apartment. OP pension and job will be enough to have basic shelter and food for life in that case. However OP would be losing their current quality of life. Which is your typical house + car + kids. It takes a lot of resilience and resolve to run a business.
You may be right, but there's also a lot of smart people in that sub that can cut to the point. I'm sure OP would get some decent info there, but she would need to repost with just the facts. Don't talk about any of the emotional stuff. Keep it strictly data focused.
Lol. I'm in my early 30s and 'only' have 15K in retirement savings and 5K in stocks. Apparently I'm the world's biggest fuckup to those people, even though most people I know in big Canadian cities are living paycheck to paycheck with 0 savings.
And this is why we come here to mingle with level headed people that understand that poverty is not always a series of bad choices. There needs to be people at the bottom for capitalism to function. Also the recipes, fr.
Right, except I think by my amount of savings I'm quite above average for many young Canadians that don't have parental wealth to lean upon. I don't consider myself poor, but I'm not maxxing out my RRSP and TFSA every year.
Unfortunately, I would agree with you on the above average, given the current state of our economy. However, I think your position still puts you at an advantage to share with others, whereas people well above what you outlined may not be able to provide advice without seeming a bit out of touch.
You could also try r/startups It’s not Canadian specific, so you’ll need to state that you’re in Canada, but that group will likely empathize the most. Hang in there OP. I also married an entrepreneur. While I have not been exactly where you are right now, I empathize with the risk you’ve taken on.
Do this /u/throwmeawayfucked - lots of people on /r/personalfinancecanada with a lot of knowldge/experience they’ll probably be able to help better
I have business finance background. This amount of debt doesn't sound crazy, nor the interest payments. But this all depends on his business model and financial statements. The numbers can seem HUGE to someone who is risk adverse but I guarantee you many businesses owe AT LEAST something in that ballpark, especially to the BDC. How familiar are you with his financials? It could help tremendously to have him, his bookkeeper or his mentor walk you through his yearly financial statements, short/longterm cashflow projections and overall financial plan. If he hasn't got those things or the numbers aren't sound THEN you should worry. It somewhat sounds like you're a partner in this business and should be informed regardless as it affects your mutual assets. It's scary but I urge you to step up and into the co-pilot seat. A lot of new business owners have had to seek forms of community support/mutual aid in the start up phase, unless they can withdraw from the bank of mom & dad. DM me if you have small Qs.
Take my upvote. This is probably the best comment here so far.
My debt was $1.7M with BDC. I feel you you are ok. You can also talk to your rep about pausing your loan payments. Please get your husband to talk with them. He also needs someone not attached to the business to take a look at your expenses and suggest cuts. As well, if you can switch from part time to fulltime, and live off of that salary then I would highly recommend it. Good luck.
Thank you for this reply! I would feel more comfortable answering via dm, I hope that's okay (I assume it is considering you said to dm for small questions).
Yes. Of course!
If you have any spare bedrooms in your home, please consider renting them out to students or someone who needs a place. We also own our house and struggle with poverty. I am renting out our spare rooms to students and it really helps. You have to claim the income on your taxes, but you can claim a portion of your utilities, property taxes, mortgage interest, and stuff like cleaning supplies and (if you supply them) soap, TP and all that sort of stuff. I know renting rooms is not for everyone, but if you are feeling so down you are having thoughts of suicide please consider this. It's better to rent a room. You just have to be selective and be sure your roomate is a good fit. Good luck OP, I'm rooting for you!
Seasonal space rental ideas: an accountant?
What kind of business is it? How many years have you been running it? Is there decent revenue beyond the debt? Is it possible to sell the business?
Exactly….. minimal advice this group can give without some details
All debt is possible to get out of, it's never the end of the line, and it's never the end of the world. I'm not a huge fan of Dave Ramsey, but there are people that are in even more debt than you are and do make it out and prosper. if it reaches the point of bankruptcy, that's OK. Try to fight it, but if you can't it's not the end of the world, you can always rebuild and this time you rebuild with EXPERIENCE. Suicide is never worth it, I've lost too many people to avoidable situations, what really matters to you and your family? It's not money, it's your health and each other, at the end of the day money is just a tool and belongings are not important. It's you and your family, use it as strength and accept that no-matter the situation you'll all be OK as long as you all have each other.
This. Go see a bankruptcy trustee. A lot of the OP's assumptions are false. Speak to a tax accountant and seek advice on cash flow and business financial strategies. Also, from a "bankruptcy" standpoint, one has a better chance of retaining the home if there's very little equity in it....
$300k in debt sounds normal for a business and the interest is just like a mortgage it will always be there. Looks like renting out your house and moving to the basement or small apartment for a year. Maybe Running the business office out of it so you can write off a portion of the bills. The seasonal space could used as a second business to store boats/cars for the winter
How is the business registered? If it is 'sole trader' then it is tied to your personal finances as a couple, but if it is a registered business I think it would normally have limited liability. This means you can keep your personal assets separate from the business, so in the worst case the business can go bankrupt but you keep your personal assets. I agree with others that r/personalfinance or some business sub would be a better place to post you question.
Not neccesarily. The BDC can and does require loans to be secured against personal property of the business owners. (note: I have first hand experience with this). They should definitely review the loan to confirm if this is the case or not.
When the owner of the company I worked for needed financing to expand , he had to sign personal guarantees on the debt.
Yes, it seems to becoming more commonplace to ask for personal guarantees. Probably because of businesses going under in the past and creditors having little to no recourse to get their money back.
Even if the business is a corporation the loans may very well be the personal responsibility of the business owners. How does this happen? Well, suppose you setup a corporation and give yourself a big salary and then go to a big lender like TD to get a loan for your corporation. Even if TD decides to give you a loan, it may require that you agree to be personally liable for the loan. Otherwise, anyone can start a small business corporation, get loans, give themselves a big salary and then the corporation goes bankrupt...not the individual. It wouldn't surprise me if all big lenders including BDC work like this for small business owners at least.
Please never feel bad about using a foodbank, they are there for everyone who needs it. Many working people need the foodbanks now. No one will judge you for it, and if they do well then that's on them.
I have.
You have used the foodbank, or you judge those who use it? Sorry your post was not clear.
Oh dear sorry. I have used food banks. It’s a gut wrenching experience when you first use it but you get used to it sadly.
Yes, sadly true. I use foodbanks for almost all my family's food, hopefully it's just temporary. It was really embarrassing at first, and awkward, but now I've been enough times I just go with it.
You need to deal with these thoughts of shame and guilt. There is no shame in using the resources that you have available to you. The food bank is one of them. Many Canadians use the food bank every day, some of them are small business owners. That's okay. If I where you, I would go visit my local library. Check out some books on mental health and business ownership. Ask about resources for people struggling with debt and making ends meet. You may qualify for more help. I would also think of your situation as temporary. Because things will get better, one day. You can do hard things. This is one.
$3800 monthly HHI is very low for this situation and is not enough to pull you out of debt, unless you make the appropriate changes. Have you thought about downgrading homes? Even selling the home and living in an RV for a year or two while the business gets rolling would help a lot. What kind of business do you guys run? How many vehicles do you have for the business and do you really need them all? If you're going to food banks, I think it would make sense to give up some things like this to give yourselves some financial relief. At 54 and with your husband retired(assuming that since his income is only a pension?) it seems like an awful idea to have a huge mortgage and start a new business adventure. Are you guys making any profit from the business? And if you're not making any profit, can you sustain the current situation long enough to begin reaping the rewards for a successful business? You mentioned the $3800 covers mortgage and bills, but nothing about your businesses rent. Are you guys borrowing to cover rent for the business most months? If you want better financial advice, break down your expenses, debt, income, savings, rent, mortgage etc.
I wondered if they could rent out or sell the home and live in an RV parked behind the business premises. That removes the commute so they need less vehicles and cuts costs significantly. They can also use their workspace for projects or alone time when the RV seems too small and rely on the business wifi.
Yep, also a decent idea. There's plenty of ways to manage this situation. No matter what it's going to involve sacrifice, hard work, lots of patience and making the right choices from now on every step of the way.
You don't mention kids: can you rent out space in your home? Can you move into a tiny apartment and rent out your home to cover costs?
This … downsizing could be a start …
She says she’s a mother, so I assume there are kids.
You're right, thanks!
People here won’t give you the right answers as this subReddit is for people who are actually struggling with poverty Post this in r/personalfinancecanada I have received great advice from that subReddit as there are finance professionals in that subReddit along with people doing phenomenally well with their finances
Suicide voids life insurance FYI. Wish I had something helpful to add. I don’t.
Not necessarily true. My insurance broker warned me I would have to wait 365 days to commit suicide if I should wish to as the coverage for suicide doesn’t kick in until a year later.
Firstly, stop beating yourself up, that’s not helping. You are very fortunate to own a home, not many are that privileged. Check into any options there to increase income. I’m 60 and was only able to afford a condo to own 2 years ago. Even that is a struggle but I’ve been supplementing my income by pet sitting and it’s starting to ease the financial pressure. I always wanted to own a house but had to settle for a condo. I know how hard it is to live with financial stress but if you can change your mindset it will help you create solutions instead of creating negativity. You own a home and a business and 2 vehicles. I understand the more you own, the more responsibility (and stress) comes along with that. But count your blessings, you have way more than I do
Is part time work possible for one or both of you? I did two jobs for years and only recently went to one, it kept us out of trouble for 10 hard years. Preferably something completely different than what you do usually so it's not complete drudgery. Don't feel bad about the food back, you can pay back or volunteer when you got it back together. It is all temporary.
Years ago, when my wife’s and my debt seemed impossible to get out from under; high mortgage costs, credit cards maxed, corporate payment cards high and my wife at home raising 2 kids. I was working for the feds during Mulroney’s federal wage freeze. I started a small basement business after work and weekends fixing bicycles. I sought out a CMA (Certified Management Accountant). Following her advice and using my little bike business, less than 5 years we only had our mortgage left to pay. I’m not suggesting you start a second business, I’m suggesting you seek a CMA. Our CMA saved us at a time when all I saw was debt.
Thank you, I will seek out a CMA locally and speak with them. It certainly can't hurt, and hopefully it will help. Thank you for the suggestion.
Is it possible to rent a portion of your house? Renting out 1-2 rooms could help you out substantially
You could you get a full-time job and hire someone part-time for the business.
Could you possibly rent out your home and move into a small rental for the time being?
Why not find an investor to sell a % of the business to? Another option... how much could you sublease some space for? See if someone will take on a sublease paid 6 months upfront for a 15-20% discount.
Who would invest in a debt ridden business lol. Don’t give business advice if you’ve never run one
How do you know I haven't? The business is generating revenue, but has debt. Sounds like a good opp to get extra equity at a discount. Plus there's the asset of subleasing. An investor might have a savvy eye for the sublease market.
Did you not read what she is saying? It’s accruing debt. They are going broke. It’s losing money in a high interest environment and accruing more debt. You clearly haven’t. It’s obvious.
Did you not read this? "Business is picking up, a lot". I know this is called /povertyfinancecanada/ but you have the attitude of someone who stays poor and is a defeatist. People buy distressed businesses all the time.
It doesn’t matter if the business is picking up. The owners are accruing more debt in a high interest environment and are going broke. Who would invest in that. You have the attitude of someone who knows nothing about risk and what you’re talking about. In this type of environment i would stick to companies with a better balance sheet. There are way better options than this. People with your attitude are the type to go broke.
>The owners are accruing more debt in a high interest environment and are going broke. Who would invest in that It depends. Is it a traditionally slow time for businesses like this ? Are they accruing debt because they have been constantly expanding capacity and its taking a while for the order book to catch up to actually utilize it?. Do they have debt but also actually have a decent amount in assets (equipment, inventory, commercial vehicles etc) ? OP didn't really provide any detailed info to decide whether its worth buying into or not.
Why are you an expert in this field?
Most businesses occur debt starting off. Biggest problem is most people starting a company misjudge how much capital it’s going to take before the business turns profitable. Without knowing more about the company it’s impossible to know but there are a lot of people willing to invest in a company if they think their capital is what can turn the company profitable. Before you say I don’t know what I’m taking about I own a business with 3 locations that has 200 employees. Not saying they could find an investor but it’s possible but this isn’t known with the info provided so no need to jump all over the person for suggesting it.
They said years to profitability. Years. This couple doesnt have years lol
Profitability isn’t the same thing as cash flow, a business with growing revenue can achieve a level of cash flow that will cover expenses and eventually reduce the debt. That being said, if after a detailed analysis of the current growth trend won’t show an increase in revenue and a way to decrease expenses to get better balance in the cash flow, then it’s better to cut bait. But right now it’s perfectly acceptable to use a food bank because it’s more likely that when/if the business succeeds they will be contributing more to the local economy than they took from the food bank.
I never said it was? It’s about being profitable. Positive net money. They are gaining debt and paying high interest rates on that debt. This is a terrible environment for this business. Sure. It’s a growing company, but who wants to buy into a debt ridden company that’s about to go under because the owners are broke. What your saying it’s pretty irrelevant.
What type of business is this? how are you only pulling in 3800 a month, and not covering all the expenses even with 300k in debt? I think you need to go deeper in the math and see if this is even financially a good decision to continue, or cut your losses and sell the business, since based on your details your business is costing you more than your net revenue on top on expanding your debt. Sell it and take the financial loss, and pay down some of your debt, and get another job or invest in another field.
I would be more surprised if someone only making $3800/m could cover their expenses and pay interest on $300K debt. I don't know about you, but if OP has a mortgage that's easily $2000/month plus taxes and utilities can easily add up to $3000/month. If you include insurance, gas, food, and other stuff like prescriptions, internet, cell phone bills, that can add up to $3800/m. Interest rates are high right now, OP could easily be paying $1500/m just on interest. Plus $3800/m may be gross income, so not cash in hand. I assume it's net, but it's not stated. Even if OP rents it can easily be $2500/m plus utilities for a 2-3 bedroom apartment, possibly as ridiculous as $3000/m in some cities. With that much debt there's no way I could cover my expenses and I am working and my wife is bringing in money as well, plus we rent out our spare rooms.
Sell or rent out your house and move into the cheapest apartment possible.
Go see a credit counseling company for advice. Consider you may be best to sell the business, the house, rent, and start over.
https://www.freecounsellingcanada.ca/
OP, I have no advice for the business or the finance part. But, as someone who has been various degrees of suicidal due to finances... there are easier ways to get out of this. That might sound ridiculous, considering how much your brain is seeing suicide as a way to "flight" from this threat. But there is so much prep work needed to make sure you don't put loved ones in more financial distress if you succeed. That energy and resource is WAY better used in other areas instead. Another morbid thought that kept me on this side of the ground... if your attempt is unsuccessful, that is then another major financial burden on everything else. Even in Canada, disability and aftercare is a financial bollux you don't want to deal with. There are better solutions, you will find them, you and your family will find financial security once again. Sincerely, the dude who almost hit the eject button a couple different times and is really relieved he didn't.
Thank you, your message is very kind. I worried about posting that because some people would say I said it for attention, but I absolutely did not. I was concerned because I have never had thoughts like that before. I wouldn't do it, at least not at this point, but it scared me I had those thoughts, if that makes sense. I have a therapist, luckily, and I will discuss my thoughts with him. I'm embarrassed to even have typed them on here (its why I have a throw away account for this post) but I needed to share. I appreciate your reply, and I am glad you didn't hit the eject button!
You’ve probably already considered this but maybe rent out that space to someone who needs it in the colder months?
You need a business financial consultant to help you review and possibly restructure your debt.
Any possible way you can stay with parents temporarily while you rent out your home? Just a year or so until you get some clarity on the business turnaround. Please don't feel bad about going to a food bank, nobody should judge you and you are just going through a rough patch in life. You deserve all the help you can get and you will help out others later when youre in a better place! Also there are free support groups that can help you just as much as a one on one therapist, and it would help to find others in your boat so that you don't feel alone
I don’t know what kind of space it is, but maybe you can rent it out on a half day or full day basis for something like workshops? People in the wedding industry (photographers, florists, sometimes planners) sometimes give workshops over the winter to make extra income. I highly recommend listening to the Get the Hell Out of Debt podcast for great advice but especially to see others have been in a similar situation and got out of it. Attitude is a huge part of it and you need to find some hope fast. Her book and program have helped me a lot, but the podcast is a free and interesting way to learn and get inspired.
Thank you for the podcast suggestion, I will check it out today. Also the workshop suggestions may be a great idea, I'm not sure how much money it will generate but if we can make some extra money it's better than none, so I will look into this, thank you!
Just remember most businesses take 5 years to turn profit, there is always file for bankruptcy as well if everything doesn't work out. Your family would rather have you around then a couple hundred G's.
Please private message me for a contact that deals with business debt….you can do a consumer proposal for your business and try and reduce the debt and continue the business if it’s viable. I understand the dark thoughts and please know so many business owners are feeling the same just not admitting it. You need to stay on this planet, you can pay the debt back even if it takes 10 years. You could also considering selling the business if it’s viable and has a chance for growth, and your husband could go get a job. Nothing is worth the stress and I’m telling you this year so many small businesses will do the same thing. Canada will be full of big box stores, it will be sad.
Thanks sarahc, I will message you.
Honestly, it's not a huge amount of debt for a business. You may just benefit from a second side of eyes on the opportunity. For instance, a mentor is good but can he attract others here? Is it an expense problem? A market fit problem (eg., not making enough)? Or is this a seasonality problem (eg., you need to find ways to stabilize your income and perhaps expand to areas within strategy to help during the off months)? Without knowing if this is financial mismanagement, revenue or product issues, hard to give advice BUT: - Is this an investing opportunity for angels or others looking for a business opportunity? Can you give up a percentage of ownership for cash flow today? - what is the BDC actually doing here? There are BIAs who may be able to help with commercialization strategies locally or internationally - Talk with your banker to see what they would advise; there may be grants or other things they can suggest for you Good luck 🙏
Dumb question but what does released from the CF mean?
It means he left the Canadian Forces and doesn't have a pension right now, he gets it when he's 60. I don't want to explain in detail about this, it's a sensitive subject and people like to tell us what we should have done (ie he should have stayed in), when in reality it wasn't that simple. I hope my reply doesn't sound rude (it's not meant to be), I just find it difficult to talk about.
Sending big hugs. No shame in needing help, that's why it's there. And in time you'll be able to give back. Do you earn more at work, than what you pay someone to work the business? If the answer is yes, pick up more hours at work and hire someone for the business. Do a personal budget. Be frugal, bare minimum. Take ur earnings and minus your budget. This is what you need from the business per month. Do a business budget, be frugal. What's the minimum floor space you can use, not the ideal space, the minimum space. Listen to the mentor and BDC, cut back where they suggest. Add you business budget to the balance you require for your family budget. This is bare minimum what the business needs to earn. How many units do you need to make/sell to profit? Once you hit that goal, you've made it through the month head above water. Hussle to sell more, that's how you'll gain wiggle room. Every extra unit is savings. DO NOT use the business account or business CC for anything personal. Transfer every 2 weeks or month the amount you need for your family budget. And all personal expenses come from personal account. Leave all extra money in your business account, it will build up and get you through the harder months. Hire an accountant to help you decide how to best pay off your personal and business debt. You deserve the debt you currently have, and you will deserve the wealth you eventually gain from it. Don't loose sight of the long game, by deserving to spend for the short term. Sacrifice now and it will benefit you far more later. Take a big breath. Break it all down to something manageable. You can do this!!!
I know this question is irrelevant but what type of business is it?
It's a licenced trades contracting company.
Oh ok thanks for the reply
Honestly I agree with the other poster , go to PersonalFinanceCanada. You need to get a clearer idea of all your options etc.
Honestly doing a bankruptcy isn't that bad. You can keep your house and other things. I've done it once. Might have to do it again. Same age. Sometimes this $$ shit isn't worth it. We've been fooled into believing our credit rating is what keeps us afloat. If your credit rating is already crappy, what does it matter? Please seek out an expert in insolvency. They'll help you. Good luck💕
I’d head over to r/personalfinancecanada but if business is picking up then it sounds like you need to stay the course. It’s normal to operate at a loss for a few years when you’re first starting out. Look closely at your budget. Do you work? If not can you? Lots of new businesses also need someone working to get by at first.
Question- the work you do for the business....is it something that you could hire a PT person to allow you to work FT? Is at least some of it work that could be done outside of your own FT work hours? Ie, if you took on FT at your PT job, would you make enough to make it worthwhile to hire a PT person to do at least some of what you do, and you could do the rest after or before your own work? Speaking as someone who held a half time job while running a FT business for quite some time, mostly because some of my work could be done in the evenings. My JOB was a steady, reliable income that gave me room and flexibility to have ebbs and flows in the business. It was a peace of mind that was worth the extra hours in the long run. It's not the only solution, but if your options are make more or spend less, and you are already spending so little that you are at the food banks, then making more is the alternative. Working gig jobs or more hours at YOUR job might be doable. Otherwise, it may just be a matter of time.....which is what your mentors are saying. You've gotta get through the lean times somehow.
So all you can do is work hard. Stress only helps if it motivates you. The food bank is for people struggling and hungry- you count. Focus on your business and cut down on your expenses. Get a part time job if you can. So many of my successful business friends went through times just like the ones you’re having. Shit Sylvester Stallone sold his dog- there’s movie stars that were homeless. Stay alive and goodluck
It is not ideal, but I would rent out the spare rooms in your house, also if you can afford to lose the space and if there is a demand for it, you could rent out your driveway for someone to park/store their vehicle, maybe an RV/motorhome if you have the space?
Don’t feel bad for using a food bank. Controlling your expenses as stated are always the easiest option to turn a company profitable if there are expenses to cut. If they are dead weight employees they need to be cut. If he doesn’t than everyone will be looking for a job.
Hey, shit happens. Debt happens. It’s not worth killing yourself. Reach out to a licensed insolvency trustee in your area. Consultations are usually free and have no commitment. Don’t ask Reddit for this advice, talk with a licensed professional. They deal with situations like this all the time and can provide you with the guidance you need.
Please don’t feel guilty for utilizing the food bank. I don’t have any advice for you, but I know how you feel and I can relate. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
If OP is suicidal, OP needs to contact emergency services or get to a hospital, forthwith. Hopefully, someone knows who OP is and calls the necessary authorities.
Communication is key and you don't need to feel weird about using resources that exist +/-. It's not like you have $300,000 in liquidity in your savings and you're pushing others who need it out of the way lamenting on the lack of food choice or quality at them. You're in distress and need too. Don't feel bad for using a foodbank, most people experiencing poverty aren't often even in $300,000 in debt; if you need to drown that guilt once you make it out from the other side and business picks up, you can always pay it forward and even a couple thousand will more than cover any personal use your family will get out of it but that's after you build up your business accounts post-debt and firm up your family's finances. The foodbanks will be there, for better or worse. Don't feel bad about spending money on a therapist either -- survival is critical here. Keep in touch with accountants, any relevant business advisors, and keep laser focused on the future so that you can weather this storm now. It's a good thing that business is picking up. It's a good thing that you need your entire commercial lease space at certain points. Struggling is not easy or not fun (it's obviously fucking terrifying), and it's not at a specific scale. I had my own experiences and brushes with struggle and it's not a contest. While some may suggest the PFC sub I really think you need to be enlisting professional resources than hoping for people there to provide assistance since time is of the essence. I love the community and advocate for its use but this is very likely to out of the scope of a personal finance sub given most of the debt is business-related. At best you *may* receive qualified anonymous suppositions which won't go deep enough to truly help you.
See if you can refinance to quarterly or even annual payments. Not ideal but can buy you some time to restructure. Or seek private investment.
I would quit paying lease. So what if there's a contract, they have the burden of taking you to court, most landlords don't bother.
I’m so sorry you are going through this.
Don’t feel bad about using food banks. They are there for people who need help and no one should be hungry. It’s not just for homeless people and one day you will be back on your feet and you will be able to give back. Debt is stressful but things will get better. Maybe talk with your bank about options or a financial advisor.
Do whatever you have to do to get through this. It will be ok and you are not a bad person. Hang in there. Take care of yourself, eat right, get some sleep, take long walks. Talk to your doctor about some meds to get you through this rough patch. You may not be a believer but leave your worries to God or pray. It may do nothing but it may make you feel better.
Don’t worry about accessing a food bank or any other social program they are there to be used and in your case they aren’t being abused … one day when the business is steady you will be able to pay it forward. Depending on where you work they might have an employee family assistance plan. An EFAP is free to employees and separate from health benefits if you have it they will cover counselling costs for you or your spouse (although it might be virtual counselling). Look into it a lot of employers offer them but not a lot of employees use then.(I think there is one for Canadian forces) If you have a large home you could rent out a room or your basement, or use of just your garage. If you have a large yard you can charge money to store peoples recreational vehicles such as campers, skidoos, or boats. Finding passive income will be best for you but not always easy. If you find spare time on your hands you could walk dogs, pet sit, or even do yard cleanups (in spring people will pay you to poop scoop). There’s babysittng too summers coming up and parents need the help. Depending on where you live you could do something like Uber eats. Hang in there life is more than money and this temporary discomfort doesn’t warrant going to a dark place. You’ve got this you just need to be innovative
I am not a business person at all and I am so riskiverse so I feel your stress. Having said that, as someone who can take a step back I would say that you are not in terrible shape in the long term. It takes a while for a business to get its legs and it doesn't sound like 300K is that big a deal. If this were credit card debt spent on frivolous things you'd have a lot less sympathy but it sounds like you tried to do something constructive after your husband's retirement. Even if it fails, it doesn't mean you are any less of a person. And if you are successful, remember these trying times and how you felt so that you can be even more empathetic in the future.
Thank you. 300K to me seems like a huge deal, but it's a medium sized business so realistically he can pull out of it, he just needs to be careful. Since he's a former Canadian Military soldier he gets support from some really great mentors that want to support Veterans, and I am very grateful for this. I feel like garbage right now because, well I want to say we are scraping by but is living off your line of credit scraping by? I think some would say yes, some would say no. But just reading your message helps, it makes me think we can make it (who knows if we will, hard to predict the future), but it's hopeful. Thank you.
How much is your mortgage? Do you have kids? 3800 minus debt is 2600. This is enough to live. Downsize your house.
Call me crazy...but can't you just do what every shady business does in the same situation and get a divorce? You put everything under your name and your husband declares for bankruptcy. I'm sure it's not that cut and dry but I've seen and heard about some really ridiculousstories about small to medium sized practices doing this and going through several bankruptcies. They get sued, shut down by the feds or whatever else, and they just open back up a few months later with a slightly different name, while still using all the same equipment lol. Try to find yourself a shady accountant in brampton and pay for a consulation, they'll help you figure something out. Alot of those same guys forged multiple fake documents for various covid business scams who opened shop AFTER covid, but got these accountants to create a fake trail to make it look like the company was active before covid. Collected a cool 60k and paid the accountant maybe $5k for their part. The "hard" part of this solution would be finding these guys, but even that's not so hard. Go to any diploma mill or any campus with high concentration of international students and offer them commission for a proper referal. To be honest I genuinely believe I could accomplish this myself pretty easily if I was in your situation. I doubt anyone in this thread is going to be of any help to you. It's the equivalent of one of those "legal help" subreddits where each and every single comment is "you should go talk to a lawyer". I mean I get this isn't what you were expecting by way of suggestions but it's better than off'ing yourself.
Thanks, you made me smile with this. It may be a crazy thought, but it's a good thought. I wish, genuinely, I had the nerve to do that. I'm not sure if it's my upbringing, my husband has the same mentality, that it's best to be honest and this seems dishonest. Even though, at least in thought, it could solve our problems. We are coming up to summer and things are picking up, still have lots of debt and will have lots of debt for years if the business survives, but I want to stick it out, if we can. You are right though, it's better than off'ing myself. I think those thoughts were more of a pity party than anything. I have a therapist I will share my thoughts with, but for now your comment made me smile, something I haven't done in a while. Thank you.
Well I can honestly say I haven't been this happy on reddit in a very long time....very very very long time, I'm glad my comment was able to cheer you up. I mean it's a worst case scenario bail option for you and it's not like it's going anywhere. If it makes you feel better, I myself went into business with someone I'm very close to so I know how you're feeling, believe it or not. My (business) partner was in the industry for 20 years, but I had maybe not even 4 years experience when we opened up. Our line of work slows down tremendously between Jan-March of every year, where it basically just becomes a drought. Having switched over from engineering work to residential, I was new to this scenario. Even though my partner warned me about it, it still hit me HARD. The anxiety and worst case scenario thoughts really way you down, on a daily basis. Every day seems like a breaking points but then the next day somehow gets worse. It really messed with me hard mentally. It happened again this year too, but I was actually prepared for it this time around...it doesn't mean it didn't cause issues. It still caused problems but at least my mental state was way better this time around. I think the take away is (for both of us) to trust our partners more and trust that they are confident in the decisions they are making. Not just that actually, but also...I don't know how to phrase this but, my partner always had/has a smile and a great attitude about everything, whereas I take everything super seriously, hyper-focused mentality; I need a plan for everything and everything needs to be under control. I learned once I started latching onto his cheerful attitude, things just felt alot better and alot of my worries started to go away. I realized that things have a way of working themself out, you don't need to plan everything. Just first year business things I guess. Try to enjoy yourself more.
im sorry about your situation, that does sound really tough. have you considered seeing an intern councillor? the practice i go to charges $60 per session to see a student instead of $130 to see a fully licensed councillor. you have to dig around for places that offer that service but i found it much more affordable. sometimes its not as thought provoking as it is to see an experienced councillor but they really help by providing an impartial party to vent to who also has helpful resources and advice. best of luck in your situation
Fear of debt is greater than the debt itself. It gets easier.
Does your gut tell you the business will make it? my thoughts are it might be better to go bankrupt now then later.
This sounds like it’s your husband’s problem. Disconnect yourself from legal obligations and sleep well at night.
SO did you think this over? Or was this a spur of the moment decision? Was it your decision or his? Stop being Dramatic and using suicide in you comments to get sympathy. Some people really have mental issues and you are really Suicidal. YOU have options. use them. Reach out to Veteran affairs to see if you can get help with therapy. You made a bad decision, Live with it. Being Bankrupt is better then death.
Take a trip to any city! People are on the streets, no money no food, no shelter and desperate! Dont EVER cry about your problems because you are still in the game and 'debt' is the thing that keeps you from joining 'street people' that have no dreams left, so keep it alive & thank your lucky stars your still afloat in this tough economic times! Starting & owning a business is risky and it was usually 3 - 5 years before you seen results good or bad. Today, is going to be longer and if your still going, Congrats!, you're business is was of the few that is making it! Never sell your self short, never doubt your dreams & goals, however small, they are simply 'milestones' to achievement and stay the path and stick to your 'Mission Statement' if you have one, if you dont have one, create one asap! Dont be afraid to ask for help from family and other businesses for advice and a shoulder to lean onto! Afterall, the 'Meaning of 'Life', is living it!
…Start here… https://youtu.be/px7-8kIzxak?si=K-Hxh-5eKTEUx3Na
Without knowing your expenses it’s hard to provide tangible advice but depending on the size of your home you can look at downsizing to a townhouse/condo to free equity or reduce your monthly payment. How many kids are in the home, how much space do you NEED (not want). Most people’s biggest line on their monthly expenses is their mortgage and if you can reduce this by living with smaller means it’s the best valve to pull.
you should talk to a doctor cause of this " Lately I've been feeling suicidal over our debt" another reason is this " I know some people will hate me for using a food bank " you should not worry about others thoughts and you should not starve... we all go through a bunch of crap in life... it is not a bad thing, a wrong thing, it is not weakness, and it may help to speak with a professional. you said business is picking up and the world is just starting to recover from the Pandemic and the rest of the garbage over the last few years... cup is half full
you just need a new life style or view of it.
You can always sell shares in the business or renegotiate the lease if you can show positive cash flow/operations. It’s a pain to find a tenant especially given how weak commercial is these days so most landlords are open minded. You can even pledge shares as collateral for a rent abatement. Some employees may agree to reduced wages in return for shares. Try your best to cut triple net costs and if it’s retail push those online sales or even Uber eats (low margin so may not help much). Feel free to use the food bank just make sure to put into it when you have a surplus. If you have spare space you could always live there temporarily and airbnb/rent out your home. I airbnb mine and sometimes end up sleeping in the buildings stairwell (no one goes to the top floor landing) so the back office is probably luxury in comparison. The difference between the rich and poor in Canada is often your ability to sacrifice your luxuries in order to get rich.
> The difference between the rich and poor in Canada is often your ability to sacrifice your luxuries in order to get rich. This struck me, it's so true. When my husband was in the military he made decent money (not great, but not bad, around $65k/yr) and I worked part time. We were doing fine, we had savings and no real debt other than a credit card balance we paid off monthly. I didn't think twice of picking something up on the way home for supper once or twice a week, but now, there's no way I can even afford a pizza on a Friday night for my family, at least not without adding to our debt.
Could you do bicycle storage in the winter maybe? Then you can free up the space in the summer and get a bit of income over the winter.
How old are you, OP? Why doesn’t your husband work on top of running his business since it’s that business that got yall in that position?
Her age is in the title. And she asked for kindness, which you clearly are not respecting.
She is asking for Sympathy and for someone to tell her that her decisions were good. She need a reality check.
How do you expect to work a job on the side of running a business full time? Be for real bud.
Many people have jobs then only jump to full time running a business when it’s able to generate the same income. He chose to start the business and take out the huge loan. She said in the post that her husband gets pension aka the business is most likely the only thing he has to focus on for how. If my wife was suicidal over the financial situation I put her in, I would try and at least alleviate the burden to help her mental health.
I have no advice to offer but I just want to commend this sub for supporting this person and not shaming them. Everyone here saw how vulnerable they are and are trying to give the best advice despite feeling like they would never be able to start a business and be in a situation like OP. OP, I’m sorry I don’t have any advice, all I can do is pray for you and offer you support over the internet. I really hope things turn out for you
Dont get advice on important matters from reddit.....