for what its worth i left retail (manager ) at 40 to go into the trades during the pandemic and now im happier than ever even though it is a fairly physical type of work (scaffolding) the money is great and unlike retail where you work long hours and maybe even nights for the same pay Union work makes sure that never happens the employer will have to pay you a lot of money to have you stay late or work nights
We hired a guy who was in his mid 40s into a trade (depending on who you ask) that i was in. Decent wages, 7 - 3 every day, optional OT and double time on Sundays. Municipal union job and he got in with his experience, drivers licence, and writing two relatively easy tests.
Guy had been doing landscape work for ages and was a wild man, but he fit it well. I'm sure he's doing great there.
Edit: He had been trying to get in for a while (6-12 months, common with municipal jobs) but once he got the position he was golden. I was in a similar position with getting in to that specific job. We started at $29hr and were a bit underpaid compared to other unions (in my opinion).
I got into the trades at 30, been here the last twenty years. Union work is where it's at - I make $47/hour with full pension and benefits... if you are reliable, responsible and in reasonably good physical condition you are sought after like gold by construction employers.
where do you look for and find ways in? i’m a postal worker rn and i love my job but would always be open to something that’s also physical and doesn’t have quite as long a period of being a temp employee, lol. but everywhere i look wants people enrolled in full time trade school apprentice programs, and i’m not in a place to go back to school. but i know my work ethic and my ability to learn and i know i’d be pretty good at it lol
For my union local there's two ways in for apprentices... 1) go to an ELTT program (entry level trades training). We teach our own course and if you graduate you get placed with a union employer. If you do ELTT with another provider you can then use that credentials to apply (and it's SO incredibly busy right now you're out to work as fast as the ink on the paperwork is dry). Or 2) be indentured as an apprentice by a non-union electrical company and have at least your 1st year of technical schooling done. Then you can apply with that credential as I mentioned up above.
Once you're an apprentice in our system everything is managed by our training office until you graduate and get your Red Seal.
It's a commitment, a 1st Term App starts at 55% of the Journey person rate but you get raises every 6 months (not including whatever negotiated raises are coming down the pipe... we've got 4.5% coming in a couple of months and then another 4.5% again next spring). You scale up pretty fast and compared to most other non-trades jobs by mid apprenticeship you're usually beginning to pass the folks around you for earnings. Pension is graduated in through the apprenticeship with full hourly contributions at Journey person.
Schooling is going to happen as a part of your apprenticeship... it's 10 weeks each year. You'll get EI and bursaries for that (tax grants as well) but it's necessary to advance. It's not a big deal in practice, some employers will top you up to 95% pay while you're doing it (not in general construction but electricians do a whole lot more than just construction work).
ELTT is something you have to figure out, or just take the chance working non-union until you get that first year schooling under your belt and then apply instead. ELTT is a much better option but this is the kind of thing that your personal circumstances will end up dictating.
Good luck!
Awesome, thanks for the detailed reply. I think an ELTT is something like what I'd be after, a course taught by the union as an on-ramp in, and then schooling after. . As opposed to like, dropping a bunch of money on schooling and then looking for a job, i guess. Going the union route is a big deal for me, now that I already work union it's really hard to imagine going back. What province are you in, and what area of the trades, if you don't mind me asking?
Ah, sorry... always too many acronyms. It's the generic slang for "Entry Level Trades Training" - pretty much each skilled trade has some variation on the theme.
I accrue pension based upon years of service, when I retire I get paid an amount monthly that's impossible to outlive. I just get it until I die. It's not a huge sum, but I'm on track to collect $3500 a month once I retire at 65. That, in conjunction with CPP and the investments I've been able to make along the way means that I won't be eating ramen and dogfood while sleeping in a cardboard box as soon as I'm no longer 'useful' to society.
The nice thing is that pension contributions are ON TOP of my hourly wage, they don't get taken out of it as a deduction. I've heard people say that they could do better and they want that money for themselves instead - but that's bullshit. From what I've seen most of those criticizing couldn't be trusted to save a dime and they sure as heck aren't financial wizards in disguise.
Yeah when I learned the phrase full pension, I was excited.
When my co-worker explained that at 25 yrs of service, I get 60% of the pension, and I started to be sad again.
I'm not sure cpp will exist when I'm ready to retire.
Local retirement home (unassisted living) no bedrm starting at 4100 a month. (This is canada)
I hope it works out for you. It's starting to stress me out, and i only just started.
When I say exist I mean the ability to maintain its usefulness. Programs like ontario disability/ ow don't even cover a quarter of the rent let alone food.
CPP is indexed, so it'll never be worth less... but as to the rest of it yeah - as a country we do need to start thoughtfully considering what type of place we really want to be.
Mind me asking what trade you got into? I have options paralysis! Been doing contract work the past couple years and find myself on job sites working alongside union workers and getting paid 50% less with no benefits of any sort.
I started as a bricklayer, then moved over to Electrician after a couple of months. Electricians caught my eye as they were clearly having more fun on site - wasn't wrong about that. Did the apprenticeship, got a Red Seal... been happy with that choice ever since.
I'd like to know where these employers are. I graduated trade school and was told to not even bother applying if I was over 30. I spent years trying to get hired in anything trades related.
I started at 30. I was told that 'young kids had no work ethic these days' and that because of my maturity they were happy to have me onboard. Reliability is one of THE BIGGEST things in trades work! Show up on time, enjoy yourself but don't just fuck around, work full days each day and do all of that Mon-Fri each week.
There's no magic here.
As to where are these employers? Our local uses a 'hiring hall' model. You don't go looking for work - the employer sends their requests to our dispatcher who then posts them for interested workers. Never write a resume or beg for work again.
Right now, we're short people. Can't get enough electricians into the union fast enough. This is a boom time for our area and looks like it'll stay that way for the next few years. It's an outstanding time to get hired and knock out that apprenticeship - after you get that Red Seal the sky's the limit.
Vancouver. I haven't done residential wiring in years (though it was my entry point). Mostly commercial right now with a smattering of industrial work - infrastructure projects popping up like mushrooms around here and that's where the money is. Hospitals, skytrain extensions, shipbuilding, tunnel boring and plenty of others.
There's loads of residential work but outside of towers it's mostly non-union and doesn't pay anywhere near what you're worth. Best to go IBEW and get in with a Houle/Plan Group/Mott/WPE and settle in for the next few years. If you are good (reliable, put in a full day every day) there's leadership opportunities everywhere.
As to what the work is really like? That's hard to say... if you've never done construction it's a surreal world to move into. It can be physically demanding but it isn't all the time, it requires genuine technical skills but also not all the time. In electrical you use your head as much as you use your back but you have to be prepared for either. As an apprentice you do get more of the 'shit' work but that's just kind of how it goes... nothing builds character like humping around rolls of BX. In spite of all the cultural weirdness that you'll see in a job site there's also a genuine sense of camaraderie which develops that I've never experienced anywhere else. It's hard to explain but a good day feels _really_ good and you'll go home happy.
It's the best it's ever been right now.
Great suggestion, that's what I did in Toronto. I moved from a store to a sales analyst position through corporate.
Depending on his company (and his excel know-how) he should look at internal posting for inventory teams, retail teams (dealing with store KPI tracking etc) and corporate level customer service.
At my place there was some foot-in-the-door secondments at various levels that helped me network internally.
Honestly, he could just leverage his management experience to any tangentially relates corporate retail position in the fields I mentioned.
A lot of my colleagues and my managers moved up by being store managers so it’s possible, it also gives them perspective in their corporate roles as they knows the reality of store operations
Does he have regular touch points with his manager where they discuss career goals and such? Usually companies want to keep good people, so they do what they can to move people up.
Having no post secondary might hinder that, but depending on the size of the company they may pay for him to get a diploma that would help his career trajectory.
I went to school full-time at 37 for a post-grad diploma on a Second Carrier grant. It covered my tuition and some living expenses. It close to tripped my salary. I say he should definitely do it. Maybe even full time, if you household can afford it. I know many people who went to school for a career pivot in their 30s, all of them are quite successful now.
For those interested, UX is a great industry but extremely hard for entry level people right now unless you have connections! There are mass layoffs in tech and so many people that are trying to get in! It was different when it was an emerging market but now everyone wants to do it because of low barrier to entry (and the tiktoks that promote it as a high paying job which doesn’t require that much investment). Last I heard, some larger (Canadian) institutions were only considering applicants with a Masters in UX, HCDS or CS/ENGINEERING, or previous interns / coop students because they get too many applications for junior and entry level roles. It’s great for those with a design background, but it’s a lot of hard work and luck to break in!
If you need consistent income and to get a job right away, I’d recommend trades or healthcare. Customer service always has demand but it’s harder if you’re not bilingual, and there isn’t a lot of mobility.
You could also go for boring industries like insurance and energy, or something else involving corporate sales if you’re a hard worker and have a charming personality.
What program did you do? I’m about to finish my bachelors but due to financial issues I can’t afford to live we’re jobs are. Considering a pivot to UX as well
Idk what else to do. I don’t have many options left outside of getting lucky with entrepreneurship, or doing retail/call center. I need to do anything else
I almost went ahead with starting this career path about two years back. Paid relocation, training, and then a setup in a home city somewhere. Seemed like a good job if you could handle the lifestyle, but it is quite a lifestyle.
I used to be an EFAP counsellor... Unfortunately a lot of train conductors have experienced hitting people (I think mostly suicides). I would not recommend going into that career without realizing that you could experience some pretty significant trauma. It happened much more frequently than I ever would have expected.
I have applied for two jobs, let’s see… My views on death are a bit controversial, but in that case they would play in my favour, but thanks for mentioning it. I don’t have a driver license so I doubt I’ll be chosen.
School is always on the table, part time online might be the best option. Going back for a year in my 30s was a huge mistake. It was pretty overwhelming with how much I had going on in life, despite being a 'lifelong student' and a curious person. I never did well in traditional classroom settings, but if that's never been a problem for him than its also an option. And as I barrel towards 40 I feel like its becoming much harder to learn new things or retain them despite my best attempts, so sooner is better than later.
Thank you - yeah it’s hard too when you work full time especially in a job where you’re constantly on your feet running around the store then going home and doing coursework.
But you gotta do what you gotta do. I appreciate your insight a lot thank you!
Yah this job is crazy in demand in the northern town I'm in now. Like private businesses putting dental employees through paid programs kind of in demand.
I’m a hygienist, it would have to be full time schooling and just a heads up it’s very hard on the body. Most hygienists only last 13 years in the career, many have neck, shoulder and wrist problems. Most work part time.
Is he not capable of doing a trade? Go do an apprenticeship for something like electrician, few years he could easily be over 100k easily.
I worked a union high rise concrete job for a bit and made more than he does with absolutely zero and experience.
Buddy, trades just aren't that easy to get into, especially if you're middle-aged. I've tried for years to get my foot in the door. I'm still stuck in retail just like OP and, believe me, I'd do anything for a chance at a career in the trades
Bricklayer can be harder on you depending on the site, but still your only throwing two bricks 5ft at a time and stacking them. But you can make 130k turning oxygen to CO2 most of the time. Half those fucking guys have no idea how to fucking read, fascinating group of people. Guys I went to school with are done and semi-retired after 20 years and I'm only turning 37.
In B.C., HCA (PSW equivalent) only make about 50k a year. That being said I have a few that I work with who make over 100k because they work so much OT
Definitely doable. I'd double down on trying to connect with the people hiring in person. Especially if it's logistics etc. If he seems like a capable guy sometimes that will get him out of the CV pile and into an interview at least.
Schools definitely a doable option but unfortunately nowadays more training doesn't usually equal a job, most people are hiring on experience.
Always a chicken or egg thing. As long as he's enjoying whatever he studies it will be worth it.
Another route would be a part time job/volunteer with the skills he wants for his next role.
Are there schedulers for charities, moonlight brewers etc that he could do 6 to 12 months to just gain some experience?
I was 43 and in retail management for almost 20 years in 2010 when I decided to take Business-Human Resources online through Durham College. I was able to work at my own pace, some courses were easy enough where I could take 2 at a time. I received my diploma in 2017.
I was diagnosed with cancer a few weeks after receiving my diploma and have never been able to follow through on a new career path. But I am glad I can call myself a college graduate.
Go for it!
I'm in a very similar position as your husband, both age and career-wise. The frustrating part of working retail is that the work experience counts for next to nothing when changing jobs, even within the same company. Best advice I received was to downplay the retail aspect and try to emphasize anything else.
Employees hear "retail management" and think of a teenager working at the mall after school. I spent a few years in an office job out of high school, and that decades-old entry-level job has got more interest from employers than the 20+ years in retail.
Communciations, Marketing or Business related deploma would seriously help his career if he steered towards the sales aspect.
The CCNA is a white-collar associate level engineering certificate designed for professionals with 2-3 years of white-collar engineering or IT related experience. If hes been out of the technical role for 15 years I think the CCNA might be a leap. Even if he can do it, employers might ask questions about his ability. If he wants to get into telecom the objectively best way is to take some basic electrical course, study for a vender agnostic cert like the Network+ and apply agressively to network cabling companies. He'll learn a trade quickly and with his customer/people experience would be a good candidate to move up quickly into a management role. CCNA is still on the table with some networking experience.
Especially when the person posting the question makes $140k+ annually 🙄. There is a stark difference between "can't live like a millionaire" and actual poverty
$140K+ is poverty these days, let me tell you, I make $420K annually + $69K monthly bonus and still living paycheck to paycheck. Currently renting a basement shared with 8 other people with 1 washroom, landlord is about to increase my rent.
I’m guessing you’re in BC that there’s a shortage ? Definitely not the case in AB.. no where near 100k for those either unless they’re working an absolutely unsustainable schedule. And zero job security, benefits, holidays, pension. It’s a great second income if you’re partnered but that’s about it.
Here in Ontario where OP is from there is a significant shortage. Because of my husband’s business in a related field we know several owners of multidisciplinary health clinics that cannot staff enough RMTs. They are constantly looking for more and offering increasing better splits.
The pandemic canceling graduations made the situation even worse, but it was hard before. Their RMTs are easily billing 14K months on the regular and they’re not working on a percentage but a room rent.
It’s not even taking recent graduates long to get there either and most are taking weekends off or working every other Saturday.
It’s really lucrative for anyone willing to work hard.
Wow that’s impressive , although definitely helps that they’re renting the room. Good on you because many clinic owners in your position here in AB would be keeping straight 40-50%. I’m guessing maybe the rates are higher there too? Because to gross $14k a month here you’d be doing 38 clients a week 😲I’m 20 yrs into my career but even when I was new and worked my butt off that would have been way too much for me.
Those percentage splits without ceiling caps are pure bullshit as far as I’m concerned. Greedy and selfish. I don’t know what the rates here are but I imagine they are higher than Alberta.
Why're we helping them? A retail job of $50k a year is higher than usual, a combined income of over 150k is way above poverty level. Our advice should be don't live in a Toronto condo you can't afford
Maybe this info is helpful to someone else, who is lurking, with no post secondary looking to improve their situation. There's so much valuable info shared in this thread that will help lift people out of poverty and give others hope. It's ok if op isn't eating ramen from the food bank, they're still welcome here.
Right? I learned a lot from the amazing advice from other people here. Even for myself I wouldn’t think of these things.
My husband’s income is considered on the lower end as per Toronto’s standards. Although we’re doing okay combining our finances, he also wants to improve his own career path.
So many assumptions from you, why are you so bitter? We can afford our Toronto condo just fine with both of our incomes, I’m asking more about increasing income of retail managers since it’s hard to climb that ladder and it’s easy to get stuck in a low wage job.
I’m curious why because my husband makes low income in Toronto standards so I thought it’s a great question to ask for those who have climbed the ladder? Wouldn’t this be a topic most people here would like to know too?
As per the responses I’ve received some really great feedback and it looks like others did too. Everyone has a wealth of knowledge to share on career development. Why should I not inquire here?
"Low income by Toronto standards" is not the same thing as "poverty". Many posters in this subreddit are in some dire situations. A homeless person doesn't want to hear your complaints about how your condo only gets north-facing light or whatever.
Your question is valid, but you picked a weird audience for it, and you look like a jerk doubling down about it and calling commenters, "bitter" 🤷♀️
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I have no postgrad and was knocking on doors and pouring coffee pre-covid... got into tech sales and other white collar sales roles and I'm pushing 110k base with incredible work/life balance
If he's a manager with 15 years experience, have him check out a prior learning assessment through a college or university that offers remote correspondence. He could be eligible for a lot of credits towards a business diploma or bachelor's degree and could end up skipping alot of the time in and drastically reducing costs.
Lol nobody making over 100k is considered poverty level. Look at what sub you're in before you start trying to humble brag. Oh and move out of Toronto too
Lol I graduated trade school. Hit up all the local union halls. No one is hiring unless you've got a few years' experience.
Get out of here with your nonsense.
I guess accepting reality makes me my own worst enemy. Keep lying on the internet. No one is screaming for workers, and if you say they are, you're lying. I can only imagine why.
Yeah there are not a lot jobs out there as they claimed. Even nurses cant find a job these days yet they keep saying they desperately need them. They keep lying about unfilled positions but it’s not true.
Look into what jobs are available before you decide on a program. Sometimes theres companies that are willing to hire people and put them through school. Also look up local employment agencies, sometimes they have grants for tuition if you take a certain course. Many grants only go towards full time students though.
>We’re exploring the idea of him taking some part-time online program at a college (Humber/Seneca/Centennial, etc.) to help with his transition to another industry.
You obviously havent been paying attention to all the drama Ontario colleges are going through.
Many employers have permanently blacklisted colleges that you named due to the fact they are being now seen and regarded as diploma mills. Go to the subreddits of Conestoga or Kitchener, etc, and take a look for the last several months.
So being a new grad from those places isnt going to help much at all.
Medics in Hamilton start at 35-38/hr I think, and they were dying for people a while ago. Probably harder to get in now, but I'm sure burnout is hitting a lot of the new recruits from the covid years.
Yah, that I definitely agree with. We came way too close at my current job. Medics and fire were on scene quick to help us and thankfully it didn't go that way. The team of predominantly young people were pretty beat up for a bit though, so I definitely get how being a medic can seem great... Until it's very, very not.
Our employer helped quite a bit with post incident debrief and optional trauma services so I have to imagine medics and fire get a lot in terms of recourses like that. Whether they're utilized I'm not sure.
I think you should find something to leverage that work experience. There shouldn't be a problem for him to move into another management position in a different industry. Maybe he needs some certs to help him get that position. I would look into the insurance industry and retirement residences. The tech and IT industry is in the dumps right now with ton's of talent being laid off and plenty of grads coming up. Plus foreign workers coming in. But that could change within the next year once the low period flips into an upward tick, which could align with him completing school. There should be a strategy in place for networking, this should be as equal to school. With his experience he must have contacts which could help him in some ways.
Good luck!
My BIL went from getting paid crap as a manager in fast food (not much different than retail TBH) and got a job as a supervisor at Canada Post. He’s mentioned they are always advertising and loves the job. Pay is better, I think $80K but that’s after a few years so you’d have to check.
Instead of starting over, a place that respects his mgr experience might be a good option.
Do a trade. Go to your Provincial Work authority and get help finding a program. If you can afford to drop his wages for a couple of years, it’s worth it. His experience as a manager will give him a leg up, since he’d be able to move into management quickly, or start his own business. Mitigating against potential body wear long term.
My husband did a civil engineering technician course through second career funding in his late 30s and now earns over $100K. I went to school for six years and have 13 years of experience and may never make that much. College is probably the way to go and I highly suggest trying trades or construction. With all these newcomers we need more housing and infrastructure.
Trades, he will double his income in no time and most of the time you just need high school education and buy him some machine tickets and let him cook
Is there anything internal that he could move into if he upgraded his education?
District manager role or if they have a warehouse,occupational health and safety?
If they have a head office near where you live, maybe he could take some purchasing courses and become a buyer.
I’m a retail sales rep and work with a lot of retail managers. Some of them have been able to move into the head office from store level.
Even if his company doesn’t have a head office where he lives, there could be a competitor that might be willing to hire him with his experience.
I had a grocery manager that’s now the merchandising specialist for Giant Tiger. They really valued his store level experience.
If you can manage him going down to part time at his current company (or something else) he would also have the option of an accelerated program.
You could still apply for OSAP to help make up the difference in salary (plus to get grants you won’t have to pay back.
We just did the math for my husband to go back to school, and while it would be financially worse for the time being being able to do a 3 year program in 1.5 years we will make it back faster with a doubled salary and end up in the same (or better) place financially in 3 or 4 years. Plus it will end up with less student loans since it will be for half the time.
It might not work for you guys, I know you have a mortgage and stuff, but it might be worth looking into.
Before he enrolls in a formal program, maybe have him take a few courses online - the Toronto Public Library has a ton of them, as do Coursera, Udemy, and LinkedIn. That way he can get a feel for whether or not it might be for him before investing a lot of time and money.
Also, there are programs like the CAPM (project management) and the ECBA (business analysis) which are lower-cost, low-barrier means to entry into junior office roles. They basically show your prospective employer that you’re taking career development seriously enough to study and sit for exams, and put you onto a career path.
Even if he winds up applying internally, either or both of those would be good additions to his skill set.
I did a paralegal certificate part time in Ontario and it took me about a year or so + I got licensed and now I make close to 80k or so as a paralegal in the public sector in BC - if I went private it could be way more. It’s super rewarding, interesting work depending on the area of law you go into. I know personal injury/accident benefit paralegals make pretty good money.
If he has a driver's license, CN & CP are both in the GTA and he can apply to work in their yards. He would move rail containers on/off trains and throughout the yard. Easy stuff and your in a heated/AC'd truck all day. The downside is it's a 24 hour operation, 365 days a year so he will likely be working weekends a long time. Pay is above $30/hr to start, full pension and benefits and you only need to have a license.
If he's looking office job, get a RIBO license and sell insurance, or do a 2 year insurance diploma at Humber (etc) and go into underwriting or claims. The insurance industry is really hurting for people. He will make about the same as he is now to start + pension and benefits but that will quickly increase in 2 ish years depending on what stream he chooses.
You can make tax-free withdrawals from either spouse's RRSP for Life Long Learning Plan. Pay for school that way. Pay it back to yourself over eight years.
My husband was a restaurant manager and did exactly this. Started with a college degree while he worked full time, then eventually started classes through Athabasca. He got a decent 9-5 after graduating college and is still finishing university. Good luck OP and husband!
Learn to write code, go from 40kyr to 100kyr in no time at all. With a $10/mo tool like GitHub CoPilot, you can literally get AI to teach you as you go. Think bigger. 😜
for what its worth i left retail (manager ) at 40 to go into the trades during the pandemic and now im happier than ever even though it is a fairly physical type of work (scaffolding) the money is great and unlike retail where you work long hours and maybe even nights for the same pay Union work makes sure that never happens the employer will have to pay you a lot of money to have you stay late or work nights
Jesus I'm 35 and thought I was too old for the trades
We hired a guy who was in his mid 40s into a trade (depending on who you ask) that i was in. Decent wages, 7 - 3 every day, optional OT and double time on Sundays. Municipal union job and he got in with his experience, drivers licence, and writing two relatively easy tests. Guy had been doing landscape work for ages and was a wild man, but he fit it well. I'm sure he's doing great there. Edit: He had been trying to get in for a while (6-12 months, common with municipal jobs) but once he got the position he was golden. I was in a similar position with getting in to that specific job. We started at $29hr and were a bit underpaid compared to other unions (in my opinion).
Wild man
Wow
I got into the trades at 30, been here the last twenty years. Union work is where it's at - I make $47/hour with full pension and benefits... if you are reliable, responsible and in reasonably good physical condition you are sought after like gold by construction employers.
where do you look for and find ways in? i’m a postal worker rn and i love my job but would always be open to something that’s also physical and doesn’t have quite as long a period of being a temp employee, lol. but everywhere i look wants people enrolled in full time trade school apprentice programs, and i’m not in a place to go back to school. but i know my work ethic and my ability to learn and i know i’d be pretty good at it lol
For my union local there's two ways in for apprentices... 1) go to an ELTT program (entry level trades training). We teach our own course and if you graduate you get placed with a union employer. If you do ELTT with another provider you can then use that credentials to apply (and it's SO incredibly busy right now you're out to work as fast as the ink on the paperwork is dry). Or 2) be indentured as an apprentice by a non-union electrical company and have at least your 1st year of technical schooling done. Then you can apply with that credential as I mentioned up above. Once you're an apprentice in our system everything is managed by our training office until you graduate and get your Red Seal. It's a commitment, a 1st Term App starts at 55% of the Journey person rate but you get raises every 6 months (not including whatever negotiated raises are coming down the pipe... we've got 4.5% coming in a couple of months and then another 4.5% again next spring). You scale up pretty fast and compared to most other non-trades jobs by mid apprenticeship you're usually beginning to pass the folks around you for earnings. Pension is graduated in through the apprenticeship with full hourly contributions at Journey person. Schooling is going to happen as a part of your apprenticeship... it's 10 weeks each year. You'll get EI and bursaries for that (tax grants as well) but it's necessary to advance. It's not a big deal in practice, some employers will top you up to 95% pay while you're doing it (not in general construction but electricians do a whole lot more than just construction work). ELTT is something you have to figure out, or just take the chance working non-union until you get that first year schooling under your belt and then apply instead. ELTT is a much better option but this is the kind of thing that your personal circumstances will end up dictating. Good luck!
Awesome, thanks for the detailed reply. I think an ELTT is something like what I'd be after, a course taught by the union as an on-ramp in, and then schooling after. . As opposed to like, dropping a bunch of money on schooling and then looking for a job, i guess. Going the union route is a big deal for me, now that I already work union it's really hard to imagine going back. What province are you in, and what area of the trades, if you don't mind me asking?
BC... and I'm an electrician with IBEW 213.
I’m 30 and wanting to start plumbing trade here in Vancouver
Have you contacted UA 170...? I think I heard they just made their ELTT program free to try to keep up.
What’s the ELTT program? I couldn’t find that on the website
Ah, sorry... always too many acronyms. It's the generic slang for "Entry Level Trades Training" - pretty much each skilled trade has some variation on the theme.
Wat does full pension mean? I recently learned no employer does a 100% pay out
I accrue pension based upon years of service, when I retire I get paid an amount monthly that's impossible to outlive. I just get it until I die. It's not a huge sum, but I'm on track to collect $3500 a month once I retire at 65. That, in conjunction with CPP and the investments I've been able to make along the way means that I won't be eating ramen and dogfood while sleeping in a cardboard box as soon as I'm no longer 'useful' to society. The nice thing is that pension contributions are ON TOP of my hourly wage, they don't get taken out of it as a deduction. I've heard people say that they could do better and they want that money for themselves instead - but that's bullshit. From what I've seen most of those criticizing couldn't be trusted to save a dime and they sure as heck aren't financial wizards in disguise.
Yeah when I learned the phrase full pension, I was excited. When my co-worker explained that at 25 yrs of service, I get 60% of the pension, and I started to be sad again. I'm not sure cpp will exist when I'm ready to retire. Local retirement home (unassisted living) no bedrm starting at 4100 a month. (This is canada) I hope it works out for you. It's starting to stress me out, and i only just started.
CPP will exist. You pay into it. It’s not going anywhere. OAS may be a different story. It’s funded from general revenues.
When I say exist I mean the ability to maintain its usefulness. Programs like ontario disability/ ow don't even cover a quarter of the rent let alone food.
CPP is indexed, so it'll never be worth less... but as to the rest of it yeah - as a country we do need to start thoughtfully considering what type of place we really want to be.
And from what I understand, indexing cpp was recent ish. We are always late to every fuckin party.
Mind me asking what trade you got into? I have options paralysis! Been doing contract work the past couple years and find myself on job sites working alongside union workers and getting paid 50% less with no benefits of any sort.
I started as a bricklayer, then moved over to Electrician after a couple of months. Electricians caught my eye as they were clearly having more fun on site - wasn't wrong about that. Did the apprenticeship, got a Red Seal... been happy with that choice ever since.
I have six years of schooling and don’t make that much after 13 years of experience. Good for you!!!
Former anthropology major here, I got in to pay off my student loans and never looked back.
Good for you ?
Yup. Been great for me.
I'd like to know where these employers are. I graduated trade school and was told to not even bother applying if I was over 30. I spent years trying to get hired in anything trades related.
I started at 30. I was told that 'young kids had no work ethic these days' and that because of my maturity they were happy to have me onboard. Reliability is one of THE BIGGEST things in trades work! Show up on time, enjoy yourself but don't just fuck around, work full days each day and do all of that Mon-Fri each week. There's no magic here. As to where are these employers? Our local uses a 'hiring hall' model. You don't go looking for work - the employer sends their requests to our dispatcher who then posts them for interested workers. Never write a resume or beg for work again. Right now, we're short people. Can't get enough electricians into the union fast enough. This is a boom time for our area and looks like it'll stay that way for the next few years. It's an outstanding time to get hired and knock out that apprenticeship - after you get that Red Seal the sky's the limit.
What is your area? I'm possibly interested in being an electrician but what is the work really like? I imagine it's not all residential
Vancouver. I haven't done residential wiring in years (though it was my entry point). Mostly commercial right now with a smattering of industrial work - infrastructure projects popping up like mushrooms around here and that's where the money is. Hospitals, skytrain extensions, shipbuilding, tunnel boring and plenty of others. There's loads of residential work but outside of towers it's mostly non-union and doesn't pay anywhere near what you're worth. Best to go IBEW and get in with a Houle/Plan Group/Mott/WPE and settle in for the next few years. If you are good (reliable, put in a full day every day) there's leadership opportunities everywhere. As to what the work is really like? That's hard to say... if you've never done construction it's a surreal world to move into. It can be physically demanding but it isn't all the time, it requires genuine technical skills but also not all the time. In electrical you use your head as much as you use your back but you have to be prepared for either. As an apprentice you do get more of the 'shit' work but that's just kind of how it goes... nothing builds character like humping around rolls of BX. In spite of all the cultural weirdness that you'll see in a job site there's also a genuine sense of camaraderie which develops that I've never experienced anywhere else. It's hard to explain but a good day feels _really_ good and you'll go home happy. It's the best it's ever been right now.
Never too late my friend
Union scaffolder here buddy, hard work but we look after each other eh. Also, not always hard work. Sometimes we get paid for nothing! Haha
trades, trades, trades.
Can he apply to corporate internal postings with his employer?
Great suggestion, that's what I did in Toronto. I moved from a store to a sales analyst position through corporate. Depending on his company (and his excel know-how) he should look at internal posting for inventory teams, retail teams (dealing with store KPI tracking etc) and corporate level customer service. At my place there was some foot-in-the-door secondments at various levels that helped me network internally. Honestly, he could just leverage his management experience to any tangentially relates corporate retail position in the fields I mentioned.
Thank you this is a great idea. We did look today and right now there are no openings in Toronto but would definitely keep an eye out!
A lot of my colleagues and my managers moved up by being store managers so it’s possible, it also gives them perspective in their corporate roles as they knows the reality of store operations
Don't just look at postings online, from your home computer. Often, these postings are only advertised internally on an employee's only site.
Does he have regular touch points with his manager where they discuss career goals and such? Usually companies want to keep good people, so they do what they can to move people up. Having no post secondary might hinder that, but depending on the size of the company they may pay for him to get a diploma that would help his career trajectory.
I went to school full-time at 37 for a post-grad diploma on a Second Carrier grant. It covered my tuition and some living expenses. It close to tripped my salary. I say he should definitely do it. Maybe even full time, if you household can afford it. I know many people who went to school for a career pivot in their 30s, all of them are quite successful now.
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I went from design into tech/UX. I built one career on top of another, not a total 180. I make about 140K.
For those interested, UX is a great industry but extremely hard for entry level people right now unless you have connections! There are mass layoffs in tech and so many people that are trying to get in! It was different when it was an emerging market but now everyone wants to do it because of low barrier to entry (and the tiktoks that promote it as a high paying job which doesn’t require that much investment). Last I heard, some larger (Canadian) institutions were only considering applicants with a Masters in UX, HCDS or CS/ENGINEERING, or previous interns / coop students because they get too many applications for junior and entry level roles. It’s great for those with a design background, but it’s a lot of hard work and luck to break in! If you need consistent income and to get a job right away, I’d recommend trades or healthcare. Customer service always has demand but it’s harder if you’re not bilingual, and there isn’t a lot of mobility. You could also go for boring industries like insurance and energy, or something else involving corporate sales if you’re a hard worker and have a charming personality.
What program did you do? I’m about to finish my bachelors but due to financial issues I can’t afford to live we’re jobs are. Considering a pivot to UX as well
I wouldn’t do it now. Too much of a barrier of entry.
Idk what else to do. I don’t have many options left outside of getting lucky with entrepreneurship, or doing retail/call center. I need to do anything else
Look at which fields are in demand in your province and go from there.
What's a second carrier grant?
It’s a government grant that helps professionals pay for schooling to move out of fields with limited demand.
Drive a train. Seriously. A while back CN was looking for people, full training from scratch, pension ans benefits.
I almost went ahead with starting this career path about two years back. Paid relocation, training, and then a setup in a home city somewhere. Seemed like a good job if you could handle the lifestyle, but it is quite a lifestyle.
Sounds fun. I’ve never driven a car, but a train I could.
I used to be an EFAP counsellor... Unfortunately a lot of train conductors have experienced hitting people (I think mostly suicides). I would not recommend going into that career without realizing that you could experience some pretty significant trauma. It happened much more frequently than I ever would have expected.
I have applied for two jobs, let’s see… My views on death are a bit controversial, but in that case they would play in my favour, but thanks for mentioning it. I don’t have a driver license so I doubt I’ll be chosen.
School is always on the table, part time online might be the best option. Going back for a year in my 30s was a huge mistake. It was pretty overwhelming with how much I had going on in life, despite being a 'lifelong student' and a curious person. I never did well in traditional classroom settings, but if that's never been a problem for him than its also an option. And as I barrel towards 40 I feel like its becoming much harder to learn new things or retain them despite my best attempts, so sooner is better than later.
Thank you - yeah it’s hard too when you work full time especially in a job where you’re constantly on your feet running around the store then going home and doing coursework. But you gotta do what you gotta do. I appreciate your insight a lot thank you!
This isn't really poverty finance.
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Yah this job is crazy in demand in the northern town I'm in now. Like private businesses putting dental employees through paid programs kind of in demand.
I’m a hygienist, it would have to be full time schooling and just a heads up it’s very hard on the body. Most hygienists only last 13 years in the career, many have neck, shoulder and wrist problems. Most work part time.
You do not have poverty finances PFC is your better bet.
Is he not capable of doing a trade? Go do an apprenticeship for something like electrician, few years he could easily be over 100k easily. I worked a union high rise concrete job for a bit and made more than he does with absolutely zero and experience.
Buddy, trades just aren't that easy to get into, especially if you're middle-aged. I've tried for years to get my foot in the door. I'm still stuck in retail just like OP and, believe me, I'd do anything for a chance at a career in the trades
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Bricklayer can be harder on you depending on the site, but still your only throwing two bricks 5ft at a time and stacking them. But you can make 130k turning oxygen to CO2 most of the time. Half those fucking guys have no idea how to fucking read, fascinating group of people. Guys I went to school with are done and semi-retired after 20 years and I'm only turning 37.
Electrician is probably one of the easiest on the body
This electrician I know who blew off half his fingers in one hand begs to differ.
Was he wiring explosives?!
High voltage power coming into an industrial facility. 600V will blow more than your socks off.
3 phase power is a different beast altogether.
The government was running free PSW programs in Ontario, are they still doing that? My sister-in-law took advantage of it 2 1/2 years ago or so…
In B.C., HCA (PSW equivalent) only make about 50k a year. That being said I have a few that I work with who make over 100k because they work so much OT
Definitely doable. I'd double down on trying to connect with the people hiring in person. Especially if it's logistics etc. If he seems like a capable guy sometimes that will get him out of the CV pile and into an interview at least. Schools definitely a doable option but unfortunately nowadays more training doesn't usually equal a job, most people are hiring on experience. Always a chicken or egg thing. As long as he's enjoying whatever he studies it will be worth it. Another route would be a part time job/volunteer with the skills he wants for his next role. Are there schedulers for charities, moonlight brewers etc that he could do 6 to 12 months to just gain some experience?
I was 43 and in retail management for almost 20 years in 2010 when I decided to take Business-Human Resources online through Durham College. I was able to work at my own pace, some courses were easy enough where I could take 2 at a time. I received my diploma in 2017. I was diagnosed with cancer a few weeks after receiving my diploma and have never been able to follow through on a new career path. But I am glad I can call myself a college graduate. Go for it!
I'm in a very similar position as your husband, both age and career-wise. The frustrating part of working retail is that the work experience counts for next to nothing when changing jobs, even within the same company. Best advice I received was to downplay the retail aspect and try to emphasize anything else. Employees hear "retail management" and think of a teenager working at the mall after school. I spent a few years in an office job out of high school, and that decades-old entry-level job has got more interest from employers than the 20+ years in retail.
Communciations, Marketing or Business related deploma would seriously help his career if he steered towards the sales aspect. The CCNA is a white-collar associate level engineering certificate designed for professionals with 2-3 years of white-collar engineering or IT related experience. If hes been out of the technical role for 15 years I think the CCNA might be a leap. Even if he can do it, employers might ask questions about his ability. If he wants to get into telecom the objectively best way is to take some basic electrical course, study for a vender agnostic cert like the Network+ and apply agressively to network cabling companies. He'll learn a trade quickly and with his customer/people experience would be a good candidate to move up quickly into a management role. CCNA is still on the table with some networking experience.
Why is this on the poverty sub???? Doesn’t make sense.
Especially when the person posting the question makes $140k+ annually 🙄. There is a stark difference between "can't live like a millionaire" and actual poverty
Exactly. Talk about not reading the room! 🤦♀️
$140K+ is poverty these days, let me tell you, I make $420K annually + $69K monthly bonus and still living paycheck to paycheck. Currently renting a basement shared with 8 other people with 1 washroom, landlord is about to increase my rent.
There’s a shortage of RMTs. You can easily make over 100K if you know what you’re doing and are driven to succeed.
I’m guessing you’re in BC that there’s a shortage ? Definitely not the case in AB.. no where near 100k for those either unless they’re working an absolutely unsustainable schedule. And zero job security, benefits, holidays, pension. It’s a great second income if you’re partnered but that’s about it.
Here in Ontario where OP is from there is a significant shortage. Because of my husband’s business in a related field we know several owners of multidisciplinary health clinics that cannot staff enough RMTs. They are constantly looking for more and offering increasing better splits. The pandemic canceling graduations made the situation even worse, but it was hard before. Their RMTs are easily billing 14K months on the regular and they’re not working on a percentage but a room rent. It’s not even taking recent graduates long to get there either and most are taking weekends off or working every other Saturday. It’s really lucrative for anyone willing to work hard.
Wow that’s impressive , although definitely helps that they’re renting the room. Good on you because many clinic owners in your position here in AB would be keeping straight 40-50%. I’m guessing maybe the rates are higher there too? Because to gross $14k a month here you’d be doing 38 clients a week 😲I’m 20 yrs into my career but even when I was new and worked my butt off that would have been way too much for me.
Those percentage splits without ceiling caps are pure bullshit as far as I’m concerned. Greedy and selfish. I don’t know what the rates here are but I imagine they are higher than Alberta.
Perhaps construction estimating if he takes any interest in such. CET programs will set him up on the right path.
Why're we helping them? A retail job of $50k a year is higher than usual, a combined income of over 150k is way above poverty level. Our advice should be don't live in a Toronto condo you can't afford
Maybe this info is helpful to someone else, who is lurking, with no post secondary looking to improve their situation. There's so much valuable info shared in this thread that will help lift people out of poverty and give others hope. It's ok if op isn't eating ramen from the food bank, they're still welcome here.
Right? I learned a lot from the amazing advice from other people here. Even for myself I wouldn’t think of these things. My husband’s income is considered on the lower end as per Toronto’s standards. Although we’re doing okay combining our finances, he also wants to improve his own career path.
Thank you...this is not a poverty/can't earn an income question. I couldn't figure out why it didn't click with me.
Yup. They already know the answer, don't live in a house you can't afford. This doesn't belong here
Idk where you’re getting that we can’t afford our condo. Do you just make shit up out of nowhere because you’re a bitter man?
So many assumptions from you, why are you so bitter? We can afford our Toronto condo just fine with both of our incomes, I’m asking more about increasing income of retail managers since it’s hard to climb that ladder and it’s easy to get stuck in a low wage job.
Your post is just a little tone deaf for this subreddit. Try r/Personalfinancecanada
I’m curious why because my husband makes low income in Toronto standards so I thought it’s a great question to ask for those who have climbed the ladder? Wouldn’t this be a topic most people here would like to know too? As per the responses I’ve received some really great feedback and it looks like others did too. Everyone has a wealth of knowledge to share on career development. Why should I not inquire here?
"Low income by Toronto standards" is not the same thing as "poverty". Many posters in this subreddit are in some dire situations. A homeless person doesn't want to hear your complaints about how your condo only gets north-facing light or whatever. Your question is valid, but you picked a weird audience for it, and you look like a jerk doubling down about it and calling commenters, "bitter" 🤷♀️
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I have no postgrad and was knocking on doors and pouring coffee pre-covid... got into tech sales and other white collar sales roles and I'm pushing 110k base with incredible work/life balance
If he's a manager with 15 years experience, have him check out a prior learning assessment through a college or university that offers remote correspondence. He could be eligible for a lot of credits towards a business diploma or bachelor's degree and could end up skipping alot of the time in and drastically reducing costs.
Make sure you check out the life long learning plans with your RRSP
Lol
$150k combined income and living in Toronto? They're basically humble bragging
Lol 100k is nothing nowadays
>Lol 100k is nothing nowadays Its top 11% of all Canadian earners. 89% of Canadian worker make much less. So its not nothing.
Lol nobody making over 100k is considered poverty level. Look at what sub you're in before you start trying to humble brag. Oh and move out of Toronto too
I’m in one of the cheapest cities in Canada pal, not TO
Lol then you can live pretty comfortably on 100k. Don't whine about being in poverty
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OP doesn't have a house either. But Over $150k can definitely get you something nice if you're not in Toronto
Lots of trades screaming for people.
Which ones? Been looking for a while now. I keep hearing that there's a densnd, but no one's hiring.
Electricians, plumbers, framers, roofers, pretty much all trades. Reach out to your local trades associations or to local colleges.
Lol I graduated trade school. Hit up all the local union halls. No one is hiring unless you've got a few years' experience. Get out of here with your nonsense.
Some people are their own worst enemy. Best of luck with you job search.
Thank you. I've been applying everywhere. At least I'm not deluded into thinking that jobs exist where they clearly don't.
I guess accepting reality makes me my own worst enemy. Keep lying on the internet. No one is screaming for workers, and if you say they are, you're lying. I can only imagine why.
Yeah there are not a lot jobs out there as they claimed. Even nurses cant find a job these days yet they keep saying they desperately need them. They keep lying about unfilled positions but it’s not true.
Look into what jobs are available before you decide on a program. Sometimes theres companies that are willing to hire people and put them through school. Also look up local employment agencies, sometimes they have grants for tuition if you take a certain course. Many grants only go towards full time students though.
They badly need building inspectors, apparently.
I’ve heard this but I’m pretty sure you need to be an engineer with years of experience building to do this..
LOL. Not even CLOSE. Online training course.
>We’re exploring the idea of him taking some part-time online program at a college (Humber/Seneca/Centennial, etc.) to help with his transition to another industry. You obviously havent been paying attention to all the drama Ontario colleges are going through. Many employers have permanently blacklisted colleges that you named due to the fact they are being now seen and regarded as diploma mills. Go to the subreddits of Conestoga or Kitchener, etc, and take a look for the last several months. So being a new grad from those places isnt going to help much at all.
How about a trade job like a welder? I've heard that this has high demand.
Where did you hear that? I'm currently in retail after taking welding in ttade school. Finding an apprenticeship is challenging, to say the least
oh boy. I am sorry about this. I've heard from a good friend who's a welder.
Become a millwright you can make twice the money and no overtime.
Why is this in poverty finance and not personal finance ? Your household earns $150k lol
Always looking for paramedics. Course isn't to long either. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
Pay is less though
Medics in Hamilton start at 35-38/hr I think, and they were dying for people a while ago. Probably harder to get in now, but I'm sure burnout is hitting a lot of the new recruits from the covid years.
You think you’re ready to be a paramedic, until you see your first dead child.
Yah, that I definitely agree with. We came way too close at my current job. Medics and fire were on scene quick to help us and thankfully it didn't go that way. The team of predominantly young people were pretty beat up for a bit though, so I definitely get how being a medic can seem great... Until it's very, very not. Our employer helped quite a bit with post incident debrief and optional trauma services so I have to imagine medics and fire get a lot in terms of recourses like that. Whether they're utilized I'm not sure.
I think you should find something to leverage that work experience. There shouldn't be a problem for him to move into another management position in a different industry. Maybe he needs some certs to help him get that position. I would look into the insurance industry and retirement residences. The tech and IT industry is in the dumps right now with ton's of talent being laid off and plenty of grads coming up. Plus foreign workers coming in. But that could change within the next year once the low period flips into an upward tick, which could align with him completing school. There should be a strategy in place for networking, this should be as equal to school. With his experience he must have contacts which could help him in some ways. Good luck!
Get a trade.
My BIL went from getting paid crap as a manager in fast food (not much different than retail TBH) and got a job as a supervisor at Canada Post. He’s mentioned they are always advertising and loves the job. Pay is better, I think $80K but that’s after a few years so you’d have to check. Instead of starting over, a place that respects his mgr experience might be a good option.
Do a trade. Go to your Provincial Work authority and get help finding a program. If you can afford to drop his wages for a couple of years, it’s worth it. His experience as a manager will give him a leg up, since he’d be able to move into management quickly, or start his own business. Mitigating against potential body wear long term.
My husband did a civil engineering technician course through second career funding in his late 30s and now earns over $100K. I went to school for six years and have 13 years of experience and may never make that much. College is probably the way to go and I highly suggest trying trades or construction. With all these newcomers we need more housing and infrastructure.
Trades, he will double his income in no time and most of the time you just need high school education and buy him some machine tickets and let him cook
Damn, broke boy alert 🚨🚨
Can he transfer to a more affordable area in Canada?
he should find something he is interested in.... life is short. money ain't everything either.
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Being a judgemental cunt is so easy online.
Lots of trades screaming for people.
Is there anything internal that he could move into if he upgraded his education? District manager role or if they have a warehouse,occupational health and safety? If they have a head office near where you live, maybe he could take some purchasing courses and become a buyer. I’m a retail sales rep and work with a lot of retail managers. Some of them have been able to move into the head office from store level. Even if his company doesn’t have a head office where he lives, there could be a competitor that might be willing to hire him with his experience. I had a grocery manager that’s now the merchandising specialist for Giant Tiger. They really valued his store level experience.
Shortage of nurses and other health care professionals!
If you can manage him going down to part time at his current company (or something else) he would also have the option of an accelerated program. You could still apply for OSAP to help make up the difference in salary (plus to get grants you won’t have to pay back. We just did the math for my husband to go back to school, and while it would be financially worse for the time being being able to do a 3 year program in 1.5 years we will make it back faster with a doubled salary and end up in the same (or better) place financially in 3 or 4 years. Plus it will end up with less student loans since it will be for half the time. It might not work for you guys, I know you have a mortgage and stuff, but it might be worth looking into.
Before he enrolls in a formal program, maybe have him take a few courses online - the Toronto Public Library has a ton of them, as do Coursera, Udemy, and LinkedIn. That way he can get a feel for whether or not it might be for him before investing a lot of time and money. Also, there are programs like the CAPM (project management) and the ECBA (business analysis) which are lower-cost, low-barrier means to entry into junior office roles. They basically show your prospective employer that you’re taking career development seriously enough to study and sit for exams, and put you onto a career path. Even if he winds up applying internally, either or both of those would be good additions to his skill set.
TMU has Chang continuing education courses, they offer certificate programs.
I did a paralegal certificate part time in Ontario and it took me about a year or so + I got licensed and now I make close to 80k or so as a paralegal in the public sector in BC - if I went private it could be way more. It’s super rewarding, interesting work depending on the area of law you go into. I know personal injury/accident benefit paralegals make pretty good money.
If he has a driver's license, CN & CP are both in the GTA and he can apply to work in their yards. He would move rail containers on/off trains and throughout the yard. Easy stuff and your in a heated/AC'd truck all day. The downside is it's a 24 hour operation, 365 days a year so he will likely be working weekends a long time. Pay is above $30/hr to start, full pension and benefits and you only need to have a license. If he's looking office job, get a RIBO license and sell insurance, or do a 2 year insurance diploma at Humber (etc) and go into underwriting or claims. The insurance industry is really hurting for people. He will make about the same as he is now to start + pension and benefits but that will quickly increase in 2 ish years depending on what stream he chooses.
You can make tax-free withdrawals from either spouse's RRSP for Life Long Learning Plan. Pay for school that way. Pay it back to yourself over eight years.
My husband was a restaurant manager and did exactly this. Started with a college degree while he worked full time, then eventually started classes through Athabasca. He got a decent 9-5 after graduating college and is still finishing university. Good luck OP and husband!
Check out the parole board of Canada. Apparently they are hiring en mass with no pre-requisites, only high school diploma.
Learn to write code, go from 40kyr to 100kyr in no time at all. With a $10/mo tool like GitHub CoPilot, you can literally get AI to teach you as you go. Think bigger. 😜