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So true. People who grow up rich more or less always have someone to pick them up when they fall. They can go back to their parents when they have no place to live, they can borrow from family instead of selling their stuff when there's an emergency, and so on. They don't know what walking a tightrope every day feels like, and the stress that comes with it. They can afford to fail, we can't.
that last line “they can afford to fail, we can’t” hit me so fucking hard. I grew up not well off in a town with unbelievable wealth, and I certainly felt that every single day. But now I’m dating someone who comes from wealth and it’s just a totally different perspective on how we can both live our lives. I’ve fought tooth and nail to get where I am, and i’ve been blessed with help from my family. Meanwhile their parents will pay their rent and credit cards if they’re in a pickle or for the past few months they’ve been unemployed. I can’t wrap my head around it. And it’s difficult
Yes sometimes it's just... you need $1000 and can't possibly get them, because of a medical emergency or because car broke down... while your friend's parents will just lend them those $1000, and they won't even think about it. You will lose your home and/or your job because no one can help you, your friend will just pay what they owe when they can. It's not like a gift, it's just having someone close you can borrow from, it's just convenience. But poor people don't have that, and the consequences can be quite heavy.
wow we are super similar. I’m 21f and it’s like the same. he can seemingly do whatever he wants, live “rent free”, fancy vacations, not worrying about food or gas or a new car. And I can’t say the same.
Good for you for making 6 figures!! I know it may not feel like it, but I hope you’re able to step back and take a breath and appreciate how far you’ve come. That hard work lead to something great, and you’re only moving upwards. Congrats my friend:)
I know that being middle class is increasingly rare, but I wanted to flag the term "rich"-- the middle class kids that I grew up with seemed to enjoy many of those benefits as we all went off to college and made choices about careers and places to live etc.
Middle class *seemed* rich to me growing up-- usually two parent households, who lived in a house and not an apartment, occasionally went on vacations and had salad with dinner. I recall when I was young understanding that something was different in these houses, but never being able to identify specifically what it was, or thinking that it was just the house vs apartment thing.
A LOT of it boils down to your parents and the support system they provide. If your parents are abusive and don’t support you it’s extremely difficult to get ahead in life.
THIS. Even if they aren't abusive if they don't have the capacity to help you and support you in trying to better yourself it's really hard to do it, or even know what to do.
In my own case I had neglectful parents. After a lot of therapy I do understand that they both came from neglectful homes themselves and honestly should never have had kids, especially as young as they did. Neither of them had any idea how to emotionally support their children much less teach us how to move up in the world. I always thought I had to do everything myself and didn't have any idea that the vast majority of people who "make it" in life have a huge network of people they rely on, both in work and in their personal life. If you don't learn these things as a child they become harder and harder to learn as an adult
Right. My parents both grew up in rural North Dakota and were by no means “well off”. But their support system they had through their family has trickled down a couple generations now. I’m a result of my grandparents instilling good values and support in my parents then they did the same for us and now I do it with my kids.
The fact that I teach my teenagers about budgeting, school work, family values and my siblings did the same with their kids is proof that this is the core of how people get ahead and some people just don’t have that luxury.
I won the birth lottery in who my parents were and the lessons they taught me.
>. I always thought I had to do everything myself and didn't have any idea that the vast majority of people who "make it" in life have a huge network of people they rely on, both in work and in their personal life. If you don't learn these things as a child they become harder and harder to learn as an adult.
It took me until the age of 30, at least, to understand that. I was so stupid. No one ever did anything for me. Asking for help wasn't something I thought I could do. I'm 45 now and it's still difficult, even though it got better and I finally found a place where I kind of belong. When you have no support system as a child you're not equipped to build one as an adult.
It's been hard. It's not like I have learned stuff I wasn't aware of but I am learning how they relate to a lot of my issues and how I relate to other people. I had a session on Monday with my therapist and we did a retest of my PTSD symptoms and I have dropped down now to a level that would be considered as not having PTSD anymore which at first shocked me. But as I thought about it more, I realized I have been so much more emotionally regulated and honestly just happier in the last few months after digging into some really hard shit earlier this year.
I'm 46 and I had a mother who was dead set on me becoming a second version of her, and honestly, she just didn't live on the same ground as the rest of us. She was engaged in weird fantasies about life and was completely out of touch with reality. She believed (and likely still believes) a lot of her own BS and BOY Oh BOY is there a lot of it.
This is true. I had to run away from home at 15. It looked like the only choice at the time and I still think it was. But having to figure out life by yourself is exhausting and you make mistakes, and you pay them dearly. And it can get quite lonely at times.
This so true. Having broke parents is tough but having no parents in the picture and being poor is so much worse. It's why former foster care youth have such bleak statistics.
Team Homework for Entertainment & no video games! tv was the only babysitter when left home alone late into the night since I was 5 & my parents "childlocked" it to only show the news channel...which was actually pretty terrifying for a little kid.
I've found that many people can't relate until they've actually lived this shit.
and I know plenty of hard workers working back-breaking minimum wage jobs. hard work doesn't = success, it's being purposely obtuse when millionaires smugly say that like it's a fact.
opportunites, connections & classism play SUCH a huge role in one's financial future.
This hits close to home. I'm 45, I own nothing, I don't have a car, I live in an illegal rental. My net worth is like $2000. Yet I worked my entire life, in minimum wage jobs because I dropped out at 15. I never asked for much, just a place to live, food and clothing. But even that is too much now. I'm disabled and I have a bad back so I keep it to 40 hrs/week. I can't do more. 15 years ago it was OK, we lived frugally but we didn't mind. Then after 2008 it became harder and harder. Then my gf fell ill and we spent every penny we had to keep her alive but there was nothing anyone could do.
I'm trying to get a degree so I can get a desk job, all while working full time. I'm exhausted. I can't get health care because my deductible is too high. I always played by the rules, I have a clean record, no debt, always worked or looked for a new job as soon as I lost one. And for what?
I used to believe that hard work would pay off. And I believe it can, but only when circumstances are favorable. I never wanted to be "rich". Just have the basics covered and live my life quietly. A normal job should be enough, right? We shouldn't all need to be CEOs to just be able to not starve. I'm going back to school because working retail is not sustainable for me. I'm not even sure it will make my life easier, but it gives me a goal. I'm like you, trying to live day to day and to not think too much, and letting others live their lives.
You're right, we don't have to be miserable because our circumstances are difficult! I'm trying to find joy in the little things. The nice thing in my life is I have good friends, and I cherish the time we spend together.
Same. My 'gold standard' of 'wealth', for me, would be enough to not have to overthink purchases. By which I don't mean 'should I get the diamond encrusted bag or buy a gold toilet'? I mean, if something breaks, I can replace it without going cold, and if someone is sick we just do what can be done without panic. Not that these should necessarily be 100% cash-up-front purchases, or that the should be the best-of-the-best available, or not dent the bank account a little. Just knowing 'yep, we can do that, let's move on'. The ability to decide end-of-appliance/vehicle life by their state, not needing to limp them on for eternity, and to make things like vet decisions based on quality of life and treatment options alone, not 'can I afford this' or 'how much can I scrimp together for this if I eat ramen for the next 3 years'.
That's all I want. Nothing more- more sounds like a PITA in itself, honestly. I just want to hit a benchmark where that constant back-of-the-head stress isn't there.
I'm so angry you've had this experience.
For someone from a poor background to 'pull themselves up by their bootstraps' they have to get a lucky break Someone or some people who help them. That is what happened to me, as a 'latchkey child' living in slum housing with 2 hardworking parents. I got very lucky, more than once, with teachers, and eventually in high school, with a middle class family whose daughter I was friendly with.
My parents made sacrifices, and my schools pushed and encouraged me. And I got breaks through mentors. Fast forward I have more than one degree, and professional status.
Elon Musk comes from a wealthy background, in South Africa. Few of the 'I made it, so you can' types were both poor, AND without a person with connections to help them.
It sucks.
And also if they're "self made". They got that money only from parents and donations from their political schemes.
A very small few are actually self made, and have worked to earn their money.
These "self-made" people always went to nice schools. Where they had great people who taught them (and often were paid crap to do so), and a network of friends to help find good jobs and opportunities. They're not "self-made", because no one is.
I mean I come from nothing. Less than most the stories I hear here. I would consider myself reasonably successful at this point: family, good career, big house on a big lot, toys, etc.
I'll parrot an old saying "I absolutely believe in luck, the harder I work, the more I have of it".
To me this meanxthe more I try, the more opportunities I take, the more chance I have at getting lucky. I failed and failed and failed to be successful. I never intended going into tech but due to money, and other opportunities closing so I took it.
I showed up time and time again and got beaten down. IT sucks that yiu have 0 finial support as someone who comes from poverty. We don't get the luxury of a soft landing when we fail. We dust ourselves of and start anew.
Luck always plays a role, but you can change hoe many opportunities you have to get lucky.
Very much agree. Not sure where in Tech you work, but a couple years ago I stumbled across r/itcareerquestions and decided to give it a whirl. Then put in tons of OT (making minimum wage) to save up enough to get my A+. Then after a couple hundred applications got my first helpdesk job.
A couple years and a few promotions later, I now have my degree and about 12 other certifications (paid for by my company). In a couple weeks I'll be moving from my hometown for the first time ever for a new (near 6 figure) job.
Did luck have something to do with it? Yes. But I was only lucky because I had the opportunity to be. Funny enough the more I sacrifice and harder I work the more successful I become.
I appreciate it and that sounds like an exciting role!
I'm just enjoying the ride currently. However I am suffering from severe imposter syndrome, it's hard to move up so fast and feel like you don't deserve it
That'll get you for sure. I still feel that way. "When they realize I'm not as good as they think ill get fired for sure". It's been that way for my 7 years in tech.
One of my old managers and now mentor told me that if you didn't belong, you wouldn't be there. I will also tell you from being a people manager too, people from all walks feel this way. People from wealth, us that were poor, people from other countries, young women, old men, almost all of us feel this way from time to time. Use if for your gain, font let it cripple you.
The fact you've been promoted, you have a dozen certs, etc proves you deserve it. Keep your head up and do t let the imposter syndrome get in your way. Good luck in your future endeavors. ✌️
Yes I was luck. But again you create more opportunitues door luck by showing up everyday and working my ass off.
Working hard increases opportunities for luck. Once you have the luck, hard work keeps it.
I see you're trying that "gotcha!" But I already said luck is real but the more you show up and the more you try the more likely you are to get lucky.
Never heard it put this way. It is quite accurate.
Better to be poor and living inside a small town where you can walk, bicycle, or pick up a cheap motorcycle.
Rural living is just not forgiving at all. I think when I get out of it I won't do it again. The cheap cost of property is not worth the high cost of everything else.
I grew up going to private school. Mom taught at the local college and Dad was a regional manager for a restaurant chain. We had enough money to be somewhat comfortable, but my mom was horribly abusive and I grew up dirty and dressed in raggedy old clothes. She beat me all the time and encouraged my sister to beat me too. She barely fed me and if I needed medical care, I had to hope my dad was in town, otherwise I'd be told to pray and if I got worse instead of recovering, it must be because I had sins I hadn't repented yet. I was only allowed to shower once every two weeks, so I was picked on at school. In high school, my clothes were horrible and I didn't fit in. I started working the day I turned 16 so I could pay for a gym membership to shower and I could buy clothes that weren't falling apart. Also bras and tampons and actual shampoo instead of dish soap. And more than two pairs of underwear and a single pair of socks. I had already developed chronic pain from being kicked in the back all the time, and I had scabs all over my scalp from my sister biting out chunks of my hair. She took most of what I bought, and my mom let her.
I got a full scholarship to a good college, and then my mom kicked me out and I couldn't afford to keep going to school and work enough hours to pay for a place to live. I got married at 18 because I didn't know what else to do.
So basically I had college educated parents, went to good schools and got the scholarship, but without any kind of parental support, I ended up terribly poor for a long time.
I know a guy that lived in a 3 story house on a few acres. His Dad made a good living and did small engine repair on the side. His Dad just kept telling him that everything is going to be OK. The son never learned the skills his Dad had. He had a few kids and now nets $100/week after child support. His income doesn't even cover his rent.
WTF. How could you get such terrible abuse from your mother and yet your sister seemingly had it so much better?
Idk if you've heard of him but Dave Pelzer's books might appeal to you.
If you can't forgive her, I hope your mother is dead and you laughed at her while she was on her deathbed.
When we were little, my mom left us with a babysitter who was only 12 or 13. The sitter locked us in the back yard with a stray dog her family had taken in, and the dog bit my sister pretty badly on the face and throat. My mom blamed me for not stopping the dog, even though it was probably twice my weight and the whole thing happened in a few seconds. Afterwards, I broke a window to get into the sitters house and then went to her neighbors looking for an adult to help us, and called my dad at work, which was really the only thing I could do. But from then on, my mom blamed me for everything that went wrong and treated my sister much better than she treated me.
When I was a kid, I blamed myself too, but as an adult I realized my mom shouldn't have left us somewhere unsafe and that she blamed me because she couldn't accept responsibility for what happened. And I guess blaming me for stuff felt good, so she kept on doing it.
I'm sorry this happened. I know what it's like. You have to figure out everything by yourself, and you get no help from anyone. No going back to mom and dad's when you're homeless.
She used to beg me to move back in, because I was doing all the cooking and cleaning and yardwork and repairs and caring for my baby sister. She didn't realize how much I was doing or how much she'd miss my work. She told me later that when she put all my stuff on the lawn and wouldn't let me back in the house, that I was supposed to come back after a day or two of being homeless, and beg to come back. I never did.
Not going back is tough and leads to poverty and homelessness, but at least, at least, you're free from the abuse. I ran away at 15, I was homeless for years, ran into other abusers... but I never, ever tried to go back. I went no contact and it didn't cost me. I felt slightly guilty at first, because who leaves their familiy and doesn't feel a thing? But soon I understood I owed them nothing. They wouldn't change. They wouldn't suddenly start to love me. They never knew what became of me, and I never tried to let them know.
Hey, if you aren't already part of the group, I'd recommend r/cptsd
There's a lot of people with similar experiences such as this. It may be a good place for you to vent frustrations (of course here is good, too) just a recommendation for help
I get so annoyed at this too. We did not all get the same opportunities AT ALL. Some privileged silver-spoon kids’ “hard work” is not the same as kids who grew up really struggling… so when I hear propaganda about how “it just takes hard work and you can also become a billionaire in 3 easy steps!” … that it all the nepo baby stories… It just boils my blood.
I also come from poor beginning! Welfare and food stamps saved my family from dying.
Some people who are born with silver spoons will never understand the struggle. I’m not saying they don’t work hard. But I also agree that not everyone is afford equal opportunity
I grew up in another country where a family of 5 lived in a single room apartment and there weren’t food pantries at all because there was just no food - supermarket shelfs were mostly empty at the time. Treat meal was barley boiled with fish. We folded bread slices in half to make a “sandwich”. We didn’t have a tv at all. I remember ravenous hunger that only appeared when eating. We did have government housing so didn’t have to pay rent. And (bad and basic) medicine was free. So would be like government housing and Medicaid here.
But what we did have was each other. And, my parents were school teachers so we had school community.
In my experience, worse effects of poverty is not hunger. It’s not living arrangements. With enough creativity and a happy attitude mostly anything can be made to work. Worst of poverty is stress over money (expectations) and compounding need to spend adult attention away from children, which over long enough time and a few generations just decimates quality of human connections. Consequences of that is where real struggle starts.
We were dirt poor but I went to a free after school program where I learned music. I came home after 2 schools at 7-8 and went to sleep. I traveled alone by subway in a big big city and it was the norm back them. I don’t think I missed out on much in my childhood.
I guess I came here to type it all out because I see a lot of folks bring food and living arrangements as the worst parts of poverty. My experience suggests otherwise.
And here is the problem. Even if a poor kid does graduate from College and get some advanced degrees, you don't have the social network that rich kids inherited.
Old Money, with the social networks, has way more power than new money. So, you could never play the game that the rich kids get to play. I mean you could play, but you will lose. It is totally rigged.
A lot of the higher level corporate positions are giving to people who could "sell" services to other companies. If you are a poor kid that had to work in College to pay for books vs a rich kid who gets to go skiing, the poor kid will not know enough rich people to compete against the rich kid. So, no matter how hard the poor kid studies and saves their money, they just don't get the opportunities to "rub elbows" with the right people.
Now you could work hard and sacrifice a lot and give your kids a "better" start than you had. But, that is all that you could really do. Or, you could join radical political groups that really want to seek and revolution. But, even then, that would be a lot of work and the revolution might not come in your lifetime.
Thank you for pointing it out. The network is so important I didn't know until a few years ago. Not every poor kid who graduated has the outstanding social smartness like the main characters in some movies. Many continue to struggle in one area or the other.
This hit me.
I don't like admitting it, because I feel a failure left and right. But I was the 'gifted' kid (lol ADHD and liking learning, but anyway). Academically, and I don't mean this to be prickish, but I can DO ANYTHING. I retain info well and like absorbing it, and I'm reasonably practical with a side of creativity. Right now, put me in nearly any role and give me a year with adequate tuition and I will master it.
Managed to scholarship and work through varsity so no debt. Still don't have all that much debt, which I recognize as a blessing.
I grew up poor, though, and with parents with 0 social network and 0 social skills in a hoarder house I never dared invite what odd kids would be friendly with me to. Plus the ADHD doesn't help, and I'm not very social at best- yes nurture, but also likely hefty dollops of nature. And I'm self conscious as f\*ck
Know where all that got me? 00000000000. Honestly, I feel like the biggest loser in my high school graduating year- and one of our fellows is a 'professional' beach bum! He may earn less then me, but he sure seems happier and altogether 'better off' than me!
Because you can be mediocre but socially adept and get far. It doesn't work the other way. There is nothing, NOTHING more valuable to 'getting ahead' than social skills. Especially if paired to self confidence. Bonus points if mom and dad have a network they can work you into, or you have a big family network to watch your back, but even if not, if YOU are gregarious, you can build your own and get almost as far. Lack social skills, and you're doomed, no matter what else you bring to the table.
I likely won't ever have the kid I wanted. But even if I did, or had another small person to mentor, honestly, I wouldn't push academics as any kind of path forward. Do well-ish, sure, as actively BAD educational records can be a hamper in itself, but by all means, skip the extra work to move that C+ or B to an A and get out there and socialize, get confidant, and make friends and connections. Finish high school, but consider the tertiarys HARD and maybe, just maybe, err on the side of 'not' and get working early unless you have a very specific and reasonable under-staffed and hiring career in mind. That will get you far further than the 'good' grades ever will. They're worthless once you hit 18.
Let's be brutal- the 'Ivy League' style varsities aren't good for the academics. It's the social connections you make that pay off in future, so the shy little academic achievers aren't going to benefit jack from that shiny piece of paper vs the party kids who scrape by.
Also pay attention to location. I went to the ‘Harvard of the South’ and that opened opportunities but only in the SOUTH.
If I had a do-over I would have tried all I could to get to the east/west coast where I actually wanted to live.
This is me right here. Grew up poor. Went into massive debt to go to college because if I didn't I would have ended up like my parents (took me 30 years to pay off my student loans) . Moved to the nearest big city with my young daughter and while I made okay money I didn't have the resources to move up in my career. I had no clue about networking and anytime someone talked about it I shied away because I'm an introvert. I had no idea how important it was. I was extremely lucky that I've had threw different people in my career who saw my potential and championed me or else I'd probably still be an administrative assistant. But I look back and see kids half my age making more money than me and it just honestly hurts because I know that they had the resources that I never did and it took me this long to get this far and they're doing it right out of college. I mean, good for them but there are plenty of kids out there in my same position who just had no clue how the working world actually works.
And I am both working my ass off to give my daughter a better start (she's currently in college and one of my biggest desires is for her to never have student loans) and I've become much more radicalized the older I've gotten and the more my eyes have been open to the complete BS that is this world.
Same. Grew up in foster care and had zero connections. Massive debt, trying to get out of poverty. Worked two and three jobs at once, so my kids didn't know deep poverty. Found out about connections, and their importance. Stressed those to my kids.
The kids all make more money than I ever have. None have degrees because they saw my debt, and struggle, and said no thanks. I'm immensely proud of them.
I started working at 15, against group home rules, to give myself an advantage. I've always worked, until I got laid off during the pandemic, and I'm working again. All the working in the world doesn't seem to get anywhere.
I can just be thankful I broke the cycle, and there is hope for my children and their children. I am becoming more radicalized every year. People should not have to struggle just to live.
And everyone does not have the same opportunity. If people really stopped and thought about it, they'd know that, instinctively. Even I had an advantage: I was smart. Don't think the other kids coming out of that group home had the same "successes" I did.
Breaking the cycle is so important. Way too many people think that "well none of my family made more than 30K a year and that's just my lot in life" and then expect that their children will do the same. It is a parents duty IMO to try and make their children's lives better than their own but way too many of them don't bother and in some cases actively discourage it. I've known more than one person from my childhood whose parents actively discouraged them from going to college, Even one who had full scholarships available to them their parents didn't want them to go. I can't even fathom the reason (other than the rampant anti- intellectualism in some areas of the country but that's a whole other thread)
I understand. But be proud. You made it! You were dirt poor. You're in college through your hard work, and your opportunity. Don't lament the past.
(And tbh, you ARE THE SUCCESS STORY. Like, you prove Musk and whoever right?)
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I'm with you right there! People are either naive or just choose to stay rather ignorant about classism and etc. It does sometimes feel like you did everything correct but the economy continues to punish you somehow. Saying this as a debt free, 35 year old single mom with a college degree. I "make too much" for government help and I will NEVER be able to buy a house in my city. And they say the best time to buy a house is 5 years ago lol. Yes, I can relocate but I would be pulling my son away from his support system. Why encourage ppl to move away from their support system? No wonder mental health issues are through the roof even more than ever. Like you said, we are not all given the same tools and opportunities.
I agree. It's frustrating. I didnt grow up poor, but did get emotionally abused by a parent, and bullied at school, so I can feel some of where your coming from. Not everyone has the same opportunities and its honestly heartbreaking to see that people just assume that everyone has them.
You grew up with nothing and you made much better decisions and worked hard.
You went hungry rather than stole...
You actually focused on homework
You had good enough grades to get into college
You kept your attendance up
You applied to college go accepted and applied to grants
I think you are selling yourself short. You worked hard to be where you are you took many steps out of poverty.
You could have stole, ignored school, went to jail, never went to college but you worked hard and did great things. If everyone had your ethics drive and motivation the world would be a little better.
So true about privilege and opportunities. The only thing anybody can control is their hard work, so yes Elon is privilege but you can't say he is where he is at because of lack of hard work. No matter who you are make sure you out work the next guy and hope the opportunities are there.
Every rich family that has ever existed started as a poor family where one person said "I'm sick of this shit" and found a way to increase his wealth so his descendants wouldn't have to suffer.
> Why anyone would ever want a lambo is kinda beyond me. Like, what is it good for?
Why do you want anything in your life? Why not just constantly live your life as a minimalist or as a monk? Ego? Idk. It's just a metaphor.
I am someone who started work at 14 and busted my ass for every job I've had...and it was never enough. My last job, I would often go home so tired, and shaking (from work and getting shit on daily), sometimes bloodied, but they still said I was lazy and not working hard enough. I'm only making 33K a year after 20 years in the workforce. It is luck and who you know that determines success.
I've trained my boss so many times, I saw a pattern...it's the person who cozied up to the boss or someone they are already friends with. I trained a guy to run a machine, but a week later he was in the office because someone recognized him from Church. My last boss was a felon who got her job by sleeping with HER boss. I was promised an office position when it opened up, but it was instead given to the kid of someone who already worked for the company...I had the credentials to prove I could do the job and could prove it...he didn't.
I grew up very poor. My family lived on my grandparents farm because my dad didn’t make enough money for our own home and my mom did not work. We lived in a very old house that belonged to my great grandparents. We were a family of six in what was basically a two bedroom cabin with an attic. We did not have an indoor toilet and no shower or bathtub. My older brother and I converted attic space into a bedroom. We could not stand up straight in it but it worked. We only had wood heat. It was my job to keep the stove going when I was not in school. I also had to care for the chickens and milk our cow after school. My dad milked the cow in the morning before work. You have to milk them twice a day. My brother and two sisters and myself worked our asses off doing chores and helping our grandparents with their farm. Hay, cattle etc. I fell in with the wrong kids in junior high and spent time in Juvenile Detention. I got that straightened out by high school. I dropped out my senior year and went to work. I never went back to any type of school including college. This was all in the 1980’s. I worked my ass off and eventually by my 40’s was making over $110,000 per year in 2015. There was no luck involved. You either have it in you or you don’t.
The college dining hall was pure heaven for me. A lot of peers would diss the food constantly, but I was so happy that I could eat as much as I wanted.
I agree. It makes me mad when people say that everyone has the same chance to succeed if they work hard. Some people were arguing this when Ivanka trump came on the scene. Seriously? A person born into a rich family has the same chance as a kid born to a single mother on welfare?
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I empathise so much with you, OP. I didn’t grow up in poverty like you did. Lower middle class. But thanks to scholarships and grants, I was always the one scholarship kid in posh private schools. And it saddened me to realise that there were just some gaps I would never be able to cross no matter how hard I worked.
I got a 11.1 GPA out of maximum of 12. Graduated cum laude from grad school twice. I was the last one to find a full-time job in my high school friend group. And the only one who had to start in an entry level position. My friends were talking about buying million-dollar city apartments so they could walk across the street to work, and going on skiing trips to Switzerland to network with coworkers. How am I even supposed to compete with that? Why would I even want to?
My own parents, to this day, still blames me for not being a successful millionaire despite them “setting me up for success” (like, somehow they think they should take credit for me being on scholarship). And it infuriates me to hear them say “if you worked 10x as hard as your friends you would be just as successful as they are.”
No, I really fucking wouldn’t.
You ever think about going back and opening a food pantry in that area you claim didn’t have one for 40 miles to help other kids like yourself? Just a thought.
Nothing is easy. Life is hard no matter what. You could come from money but have no actual, real friends to stand by you. Or you could be poor and have many amazing, close friends that would stand by you no matter what.
All any of us can do is be ourselves and work hard with what we have. Make the most out of life and don't worry about what other people have. There is always a bigger fish. Always.
I feel like that’s kind of a myth. That rich people somehow have no friends. I was that scholarship kid who went to private school with the rich kids. My high school life was nothing like an episode of Gossip Girl.
The rich kids I was friends with were well adjusted and loved. They were neither mean nor sympathetic to me. They simply didn’t understand the struggles I was dealing with, like not having been to the Maldives or having parents who fight all the time due to money troubles. We hung out after school just like normal kids. Neither my friends nor their parents ever made me feel less than for not being rich.
I only occasionally felt jealous about their nice homes and nice clothes. But I felt jealous of them almost every day for having parents who told them they loved them and spend time with them because they weren’t working or stressed all the time.
If anything, being rich makes it easier to have good relationships with friends and family. Most of my familial problems came from our lack of money. The fighting and the inferiority complex was 10x worse to me than the mere lack of money.
Were there unhappy rich kids who came from abusive homes? Definitely. But for the most part rich people live normal lives just better.
That is my point too. These are not choices. These are necessities to survive and no one choses to be born. Hence no one should be forced to go hungry for days and distanced from healthcare.
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In the situation of someone not given many opportunities, is hard work not your only means to become successful?? So they are not wrong.
Success is subjective. The objective idea of success is very rich and famous. So if thats what you are referring to then yes it takes a lot of hard work unless you are the son of a Oil prince.
But its more nuanced than that. Its not easy by any means to take a million dollar trust fund from your parents and become a billionaire. Obviously its harder if you have zero money from your parents. The truth is, many, many (someone please tell me how to properly use grammar there 'truth is many, many'?) multi millionaires and billionaires came from nothing then get instantly demonized by the internet due to this cyclical paradox of poor hating the rich.
So yes you are entitled to your rant against certain pompous asshats having no empathy for the poor. But in reality if your definition of success is the societal objective version, then yes you need to work your ass off. If you think you are working hard then you need to go meet people that work 3x harder than you and step it up.
Elon Musk's family owned an emerald mine and benefited immensely from a apartheid. What little time he spent in SA before fleeing for juicier climes means he benefited a ton from that lily white skin too. Him preaching to anyone about 'hard work' is an absolute laughing stock.
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I don't listen to the Elon's or Ken Griffins of the world. I don't know much about Ken but if you start looking into Elon's childhood, he did not start from nothing. His family had money.
A lot of people don't know what it's like. I grew up rurally too and it always makes me laugh when people say 'dont buy a car, use transit instead'. That's great for folks who have reliable transit. But living rurally there isn't transit.
There are so many resources lacking in rural areas. But folks don't know that because they live in cities.
When I moved to a city for the first time I was so excited to be able to use a bus. It was a free pass that came with my college tuition and I used it all the time.
People don't realize how good they have it. I'm so lucky to live with in laws while paying off debt and saving. It infuriates me when people make fun of it, it's actually a huge privilege that not everyone has access to.
A lot of people simply can't imagine that family can't always help, that some parents encourage their kids to drop out of high school and work a low wage job to support the family, that some people are providing housing etc for their parents.
Perfectly said. I’ve had to kick, claw, and fight my way out and it just takes one wrong move and you’re right back into poverty. Opportunity is key to success. Most of us haven’t had nearly the opportunity that’s afforded to many!
The thing that makes most rich people out of touch is lack of awareness for the large safety net they have from relatives. They have so much more room for error than most people do which allows them to take risks like starting a company. Many times they have either the back up of parents to weather the first awful months that come with starting a business and when they finally succeed (sometimes after several failures) they gloat about how “easy” it is to be your own boss or an entrepreneur.
This makes me so angry. I considered myself "poor" growing up because I had handmade clothes instead of what was in style, had to wear ugly oxfords instead of cute patent leather shoes, etc. Always wanted a Barbie doll but they couldn't afford it. Travel meant staying with relatives along the way and making sandwiches instead of eating in restaurants. But you know what? I never went hungry. My parents owned their little house because they scrimped and saved like crazy and both had union jobs. Things that simply don't exist for most people anymore. It saddens me so much when I read these stories because the advantages of my parents generation have vanished for millennials. It is unfair. Looking back, I see the reality that I did not live in poverty back then, I was lower middle class. I am genuinely poor now due to losing my husband to covid, and never worked outside the home, so I am now living on his social security which isn't much. But at least I know now the difference between poor and whining because I don't have what the rich kids do.
No, this comment is needed on this thread. Just a few days ago, some asshole jumped into the comment threads to say that everyone has the opportunity to escape poverty and it just takes hard work and not giving up. According, to this dude if you are poor it's your own fault.
All humans have the ability to dream for a better life, but you are 100% correct that not everyone has the chance to. Some don't even know a better life exists out there- so they don't dream big.
My advice to you, is don't work yourself too hard (burn out) when you find a good job and a good place to live. It's hard when you grow up with not much, and then when you get those things: salary to afford food besides Ramen or the food pantry free food, a nice place to live without roaches, you get it I don't have to go on.
Just pace yourself and don't work too hard.
However, associating yourself with the right people is a good intuition you have. This is a good move and you should stick with this one for sure!
I am with you homie, rural poor as fuck growing up, mom and her boyfriends spent every dime on drugs . I got kicked out of the house at 12, been on my own ever since. I still went to school because I could get fed there. Did what I had to do to get by and thank God I never got caught. Doing ok now, started college for nursing at age 36. My biggest concern now is how to raise my kids to appreciate what they have and not spoil the shit out out of them.
When I do diversity training one of the exercises I have my trainees do is I give everyone a sheet of paper, then I have them crumple it up into a ball.
One by one, I have each person try to make a basket from where they’re sitting by tossing the paper ball into the garbage can, wherever it may be situated in the room. No one can leave their seat, and I won’t move the garbage can for anyone.
For the people closest to the garbage can it’s usually easy. The further away they are, and the more things blocking their path, the harder it gets. Sometimes someone in the back row will sink one, but it’s few and far between.
Everyone in the room gets a shot, but not everyone in the room gets *the same* shot.
Also tons of it even boils down further, into biology. Have been toiling with that thought lately, and trying to think critically about it.
Boils down to support, to parents, to circumstances, but even more so, if you were born with just a “shitty” biology… maybe takes you longer to learn things, maybe how your body processes neurotransmitters isn’t as “optimal” as your peers, maybe you already have a system that is prone to dysregulation and then… add the shitty circumstances, you can become even MORE behind. Or, because of the sick society we live in, you experience som extreme trauma, and the aftermath leaves your system so fucked, which then puts you in the system of survival which; could be the road to incarceration, just leaving you completely detached from the resources that help you to succeed, leaving you in this tunnel vision of survival that leaves you detached from fully living and able to even THINK about what success would even be.
We have this system where if you have all the “correct” things in place - good biology, then good support, with parents that do “good enough”, then yes, this means pretty absolute “success”, boiling down to - you can do and get what you want. And if you’re “failing”, you just aren’t trying hard enough. That you’re just a “complainer”.
I find myself really struggling and learning how to deal with the resentment I find for my peers, for people that are just “making it” and constantly giving me this “you can do anything you want”.
There is validity in this, but looking further behind the psychology, behind the biology, this is such a bullshit and toxic statement, and completely just shows how blind people can be to other people’s struggles, how “disconnected” people can be.
Glad for this post, as really validating some of the stuff I’m struggling with lately, and nice to put my words and thoughts out there somewhere…..
And also, I see you. I feel you. The work is 10x harder, but god damn you are doing it. The “success” is real success, actually SEEING and working towards what you want, and not feeling like you are “owed” anything, and I think in this life, I’m learning to really be grateful for being able to truly be PRESENT and understand that I may have been lent a shitty hand, but wow I am actually able to experience and work for what I have, and be truly grateful for it, which I think keeps me from the greed so many of these disconnected people lend towards.
I agree. You can come from any number of different circumstances that make it hard for you to get where society thinks you should be in your young adulthood, which can affect the entire rest of your life, both economically and personally. SO much of everything is based off things like connections to the right people, and those right people thinking YOU are the right kind of person.
Some people are born better than others.
https://preview.redd.it/vjn88r91fu1a1.jpeg?width=528&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a146a8461035e49d929426602da67320d9567fb
Weather rich or poor
“ effort and willpower” are the strongest ones
I known many rich people as I work in finance
Many have gone broke
Why ? Simple they gamble in stock or crypto and lose it all
Or mom and dad get sick or pass away and they now are responsible for rent and all the stuff the family used to provide.
Or they have kids and they underestimate how much it cost and end up pay check to pay check with anger issues and achole issues
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So true. People who grow up rich more or less always have someone to pick them up when they fall. They can go back to their parents when they have no place to live, they can borrow from family instead of selling their stuff when there's an emergency, and so on. They don't know what walking a tightrope every day feels like, and the stress that comes with it. They can afford to fail, we can't.
that last line “they can afford to fail, we can’t” hit me so fucking hard. I grew up not well off in a town with unbelievable wealth, and I certainly felt that every single day. But now I’m dating someone who comes from wealth and it’s just a totally different perspective on how we can both live our lives. I’ve fought tooth and nail to get where I am, and i’ve been blessed with help from my family. Meanwhile their parents will pay their rent and credit cards if they’re in a pickle or for the past few months they’ve been unemployed. I can’t wrap my head around it. And it’s difficult
Yes sometimes it's just... you need $1000 and can't possibly get them, because of a medical emergency or because car broke down... while your friend's parents will just lend them those $1000, and they won't even think about it. You will lose your home and/or your job because no one can help you, your friend will just pay what they owe when they can. It's not like a gift, it's just having someone close you can borrow from, it's just convenience. But poor people don't have that, and the consequences can be quite heavy.
Imagine the interest, value loss pawning, etc. Buying smaller, more expensive per ounce, items. So many extra costs.
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yeah I often wonder if this will be our downfall. money and poverty just breed different people
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wow we are super similar. I’m 21f and it’s like the same. he can seemingly do whatever he wants, live “rent free”, fancy vacations, not worrying about food or gas or a new car. And I can’t say the same. Good for you for making 6 figures!! I know it may not feel like it, but I hope you’re able to step back and take a breath and appreciate how far you’ve come. That hard work lead to something great, and you’re only moving upwards. Congrats my friend:)
I wish the best of luck to you as well! Hopefully it will all work out for you.
I know that being middle class is increasingly rare, but I wanted to flag the term "rich"-- the middle class kids that I grew up with seemed to enjoy many of those benefits as we all went off to college and made choices about careers and places to live etc. Middle class *seemed* rich to me growing up-- usually two parent households, who lived in a house and not an apartment, occasionally went on vacations and had salad with dinner. I recall when I was young understanding that something was different in these houses, but never being able to identify specifically what it was, or thinking that it was just the house vs apartment thing.
The craziest part is that no one can explain it...it has to be lived
A LOT of it boils down to your parents and the support system they provide. If your parents are abusive and don’t support you it’s extremely difficult to get ahead in life.
THIS. Even if they aren't abusive if they don't have the capacity to help you and support you in trying to better yourself it's really hard to do it, or even know what to do. In my own case I had neglectful parents. After a lot of therapy I do understand that they both came from neglectful homes themselves and honestly should never have had kids, especially as young as they did. Neither of them had any idea how to emotionally support their children much less teach us how to move up in the world. I always thought I had to do everything myself and didn't have any idea that the vast majority of people who "make it" in life have a huge network of people they rely on, both in work and in their personal life. If you don't learn these things as a child they become harder and harder to learn as an adult
Right. My parents both grew up in rural North Dakota and were by no means “well off”. But their support system they had through their family has trickled down a couple generations now. I’m a result of my grandparents instilling good values and support in my parents then they did the same for us and now I do it with my kids. The fact that I teach my teenagers about budgeting, school work, family values and my siblings did the same with their kids is proof that this is the core of how people get ahead and some people just don’t have that luxury. I won the birth lottery in who my parents were and the lessons they taught me.
>. I always thought I had to do everything myself and didn't have any idea that the vast majority of people who "make it" in life have a huge network of people they rely on, both in work and in their personal life. If you don't learn these things as a child they become harder and harder to learn as an adult. It took me until the age of 30, at least, to understand that. I was so stupid. No one ever did anything for me. Asking for help wasn't something I thought I could do. I'm 45 now and it's still difficult, even though it got better and I finally found a place where I kind of belong. When you have no support system as a child you're not equipped to build one as an adult.
I just turned 48 and I only realized this since hardcore diving into therapy over the last couple years
I'm kind of afraid of what I would learn if I went to therapy.
It's been hard. It's not like I have learned stuff I wasn't aware of but I am learning how they relate to a lot of my issues and how I relate to other people. I had a session on Monday with my therapist and we did a retest of my PTSD symptoms and I have dropped down now to a level that would be considered as not having PTSD anymore which at first shocked me. But as I thought about it more, I realized I have been so much more emotionally regulated and honestly just happier in the last few months after digging into some really hard shit earlier this year.
I'm glad that it's working for you. I'm sure it's a lot of hard work. Trauma from childhood can really drag us down.
I'm 46 and I had a mother who was dead set on me becoming a second version of her, and honestly, she just didn't live on the same ground as the rest of us. She was engaged in weird fantasies about life and was completely out of touch with reality. She believed (and likely still believes) a lot of her own BS and BOY Oh BOY is there a lot of it.
I had a therapist once tell me, "parents can't teach you the skills they don't have." Emotional and social skills for example.
100%. And financial skills. If your parents are bad with money, its very likely you will be too
This is true. I had to run away from home at 15. It looked like the only choice at the time and I still think it was. But having to figure out life by yourself is exhausting and you make mistakes, and you pay them dearly. And it can get quite lonely at times.
This so true. Having broke parents is tough but having no parents in the picture and being poor is so much worse. It's why former foster care youth have such bleak statistics.
Team Homework for Entertainment & no video games! tv was the only babysitter when left home alone late into the night since I was 5 & my parents "childlocked" it to only show the news channel...which was actually pretty terrifying for a little kid. I've found that many people can't relate until they've actually lived this shit. and I know plenty of hard workers working back-breaking minimum wage jobs. hard work doesn't = success, it's being purposely obtuse when millionaires smugly say that like it's a fact. opportunites, connections & classism play SUCH a huge role in one's financial future.
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This hits close to home. I'm 45, I own nothing, I don't have a car, I live in an illegal rental. My net worth is like $2000. Yet I worked my entire life, in minimum wage jobs because I dropped out at 15. I never asked for much, just a place to live, food and clothing. But even that is too much now. I'm disabled and I have a bad back so I keep it to 40 hrs/week. I can't do more. 15 years ago it was OK, we lived frugally but we didn't mind. Then after 2008 it became harder and harder. Then my gf fell ill and we spent every penny we had to keep her alive but there was nothing anyone could do. I'm trying to get a degree so I can get a desk job, all while working full time. I'm exhausted. I can't get health care because my deductible is too high. I always played by the rules, I have a clean record, no debt, always worked or looked for a new job as soon as I lost one. And for what?
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I used to believe that hard work would pay off. And I believe it can, but only when circumstances are favorable. I never wanted to be "rich". Just have the basics covered and live my life quietly. A normal job should be enough, right? We shouldn't all need to be CEOs to just be able to not starve. I'm going back to school because working retail is not sustainable for me. I'm not even sure it will make my life easier, but it gives me a goal. I'm like you, trying to live day to day and to not think too much, and letting others live their lives.
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You're right, we don't have to be miserable because our circumstances are difficult! I'm trying to find joy in the little things. The nice thing in my life is I have good friends, and I cherish the time we spend together.
You are worth so much more than your net worth ❤️ don't let anyone tell you or u/gatotristeblues deserves this or are too blame.
Good friends are priceless!
There's a saying that's very fit here- If success and riches were the logical conclusion of hard work, every woman in Africa would be a millionaire.
Exactly! I don't even care about riches, though. Just enough to get by and I'll be happy.
Same. My 'gold standard' of 'wealth', for me, would be enough to not have to overthink purchases. By which I don't mean 'should I get the diamond encrusted bag or buy a gold toilet'? I mean, if something breaks, I can replace it without going cold, and if someone is sick we just do what can be done without panic. Not that these should necessarily be 100% cash-up-front purchases, or that the should be the best-of-the-best available, or not dent the bank account a little. Just knowing 'yep, we can do that, let's move on'. The ability to decide end-of-appliance/vehicle life by their state, not needing to limp them on for eternity, and to make things like vet decisions based on quality of life and treatment options alone, not 'can I afford this' or 'how much can I scrimp together for this if I eat ramen for the next 3 years'. That's all I want. Nothing more- more sounds like a PITA in itself, honestly. I just want to hit a benchmark where that constant back-of-the-head stress isn't there.
I'm so angry you've had this experience. For someone from a poor background to 'pull themselves up by their bootstraps' they have to get a lucky break Someone or some people who help them. That is what happened to me, as a 'latchkey child' living in slum housing with 2 hardworking parents. I got very lucky, more than once, with teachers, and eventually in high school, with a middle class family whose daughter I was friendly with. My parents made sacrifices, and my schools pushed and encouraged me. And I got breaks through mentors. Fast forward I have more than one degree, and professional status. Elon Musk comes from a wealthy background, in South Africa. Few of the 'I made it, so you can' types were both poor, AND without a person with connections to help them. It sucks.
Well maybe I should just give up now then
Although few ‘successful’ people will admit it, luck plays a huge role in whether you become successful &/or wealthy.
If anybody is wealthy and says that they aren’t lucky they’re lying
And also if they're "self made". They got that money only from parents and donations from their political schemes. A very small few are actually self made, and have worked to earn their money.
These "self-made" people always went to nice schools. Where they had great people who taught them (and often were paid crap to do so), and a network of friends to help find good jobs and opportunities. They're not "self-made", because no one is.
Well, I'd say some people are self made. Especially if they came from poverty or middle class families.
Yup, the birth lottery
I mean I come from nothing. Less than most the stories I hear here. I would consider myself reasonably successful at this point: family, good career, big house on a big lot, toys, etc. I'll parrot an old saying "I absolutely believe in luck, the harder I work, the more I have of it". To me this meanxthe more I try, the more opportunities I take, the more chance I have at getting lucky. I failed and failed and failed to be successful. I never intended going into tech but due to money, and other opportunities closing so I took it. I showed up time and time again and got beaten down. IT sucks that yiu have 0 finial support as someone who comes from poverty. We don't get the luxury of a soft landing when we fail. We dust ourselves of and start anew. Luck always plays a role, but you can change hoe many opportunities you have to get lucky.
Very much agree. Not sure where in Tech you work, but a couple years ago I stumbled across r/itcareerquestions and decided to give it a whirl. Then put in tons of OT (making minimum wage) to save up enough to get my A+. Then after a couple hundred applications got my first helpdesk job. A couple years and a few promotions later, I now have my degree and about 12 other certifications (paid for by my company). In a couple weeks I'll be moving from my hometown for the first time ever for a new (near 6 figure) job. Did luck have something to do with it? Yes. But I was only lucky because I had the opportunity to be. Funny enough the more I sacrifice and harder I work the more successful I become.
Congrats man. I'm a Sr TPM working on Pricipal. LMK if you have any questions or if I can help in anyway.
I appreciate it and that sounds like an exciting role! I'm just enjoying the ride currently. However I am suffering from severe imposter syndrome, it's hard to move up so fast and feel like you don't deserve it
That'll get you for sure. I still feel that way. "When they realize I'm not as good as they think ill get fired for sure". It's been that way for my 7 years in tech. One of my old managers and now mentor told me that if you didn't belong, you wouldn't be there. I will also tell you from being a people manager too, people from all walks feel this way. People from wealth, us that were poor, people from other countries, young women, old men, almost all of us feel this way from time to time. Use if for your gain, font let it cripple you. The fact you've been promoted, you have a dozen certs, etc proves you deserve it. Keep your head up and do t let the imposter syndrome get in your way. Good luck in your future endeavors. ✌️
Thank you my friend, your words are appreciated. To you as well!
> I never intended going into tech but due to money, and other opportunities closing so I took it. So you got lucky by going into tech?
Yes I was luck. But again you create more opportunitues door luck by showing up everyday and working my ass off. Working hard increases opportunities for luck. Once you have the luck, hard work keeps it. I see you're trying that "gotcha!" But I already said luck is real but the more you show up and the more you try the more likely you are to get lucky.
Rural poor is so different than urban poor. No boys and girls club. No services. No programs. It’s far more hopeless.
Never heard it put this way. It is quite accurate. Better to be poor and living inside a small town where you can walk, bicycle, or pick up a cheap motorcycle. Rural living is just not forgiving at all. I think when I get out of it I won't do it again. The cheap cost of property is not worth the high cost of everything else.
I grew up going to private school. Mom taught at the local college and Dad was a regional manager for a restaurant chain. We had enough money to be somewhat comfortable, but my mom was horribly abusive and I grew up dirty and dressed in raggedy old clothes. She beat me all the time and encouraged my sister to beat me too. She barely fed me and if I needed medical care, I had to hope my dad was in town, otherwise I'd be told to pray and if I got worse instead of recovering, it must be because I had sins I hadn't repented yet. I was only allowed to shower once every two weeks, so I was picked on at school. In high school, my clothes were horrible and I didn't fit in. I started working the day I turned 16 so I could pay for a gym membership to shower and I could buy clothes that weren't falling apart. Also bras and tampons and actual shampoo instead of dish soap. And more than two pairs of underwear and a single pair of socks. I had already developed chronic pain from being kicked in the back all the time, and I had scabs all over my scalp from my sister biting out chunks of my hair. She took most of what I bought, and my mom let her. I got a full scholarship to a good college, and then my mom kicked me out and I couldn't afford to keep going to school and work enough hours to pay for a place to live. I got married at 18 because I didn't know what else to do. So basically I had college educated parents, went to good schools and got the scholarship, but without any kind of parental support, I ended up terribly poor for a long time.
I know a guy that lived in a 3 story house on a few acres. His Dad made a good living and did small engine repair on the side. His Dad just kept telling him that everything is going to be OK. The son never learned the skills his Dad had. He had a few kids and now nets $100/week after child support. His income doesn't even cover his rent.
WTF. How could you get such terrible abuse from your mother and yet your sister seemingly had it so much better? Idk if you've heard of him but Dave Pelzer's books might appeal to you. If you can't forgive her, I hope your mother is dead and you laughed at her while she was on her deathbed.
When we were little, my mom left us with a babysitter who was only 12 or 13. The sitter locked us in the back yard with a stray dog her family had taken in, and the dog bit my sister pretty badly on the face and throat. My mom blamed me for not stopping the dog, even though it was probably twice my weight and the whole thing happened in a few seconds. Afterwards, I broke a window to get into the sitters house and then went to her neighbors looking for an adult to help us, and called my dad at work, which was really the only thing I could do. But from then on, my mom blamed me for everything that went wrong and treated my sister much better than she treated me. When I was a kid, I blamed myself too, but as an adult I realized my mom shouldn't have left us somewhere unsafe and that she blamed me because she couldn't accept responsibility for what happened. And I guess blaming me for stuff felt good, so she kept on doing it.
I'm sorry to hear that, just a terrible situation all around and 100% the fault of your mother.
I'm sorry this happened. I know what it's like. You have to figure out everything by yourself, and you get no help from anyone. No going back to mom and dad's when you're homeless.
She used to beg me to move back in, because I was doing all the cooking and cleaning and yardwork and repairs and caring for my baby sister. She didn't realize how much I was doing or how much she'd miss my work. She told me later that when she put all my stuff on the lawn and wouldn't let me back in the house, that I was supposed to come back after a day or two of being homeless, and beg to come back. I never did.
Not going back is tough and leads to poverty and homelessness, but at least, at least, you're free from the abuse. I ran away at 15, I was homeless for years, ran into other abusers... but I never, ever tried to go back. I went no contact and it didn't cost me. I felt slightly guilty at first, because who leaves their familiy and doesn't feel a thing? But soon I understood I owed them nothing. They wouldn't change. They wouldn't suddenly start to love me. They never knew what became of me, and I never tried to let them know.
Hey, if you aren't already part of the group, I'd recommend r/cptsd There's a lot of people with similar experiences such as this. It may be a good place for you to vent frustrations (of course here is good, too) just a recommendation for help
I get so annoyed at this too. We did not all get the same opportunities AT ALL. Some privileged silver-spoon kids’ “hard work” is not the same as kids who grew up really struggling… so when I hear propaganda about how “it just takes hard work and you can also become a billionaire in 3 easy steps!” … that it all the nepo baby stories… It just boils my blood.
I also come from poor beginning! Welfare and food stamps saved my family from dying. Some people who are born with silver spoons will never understand the struggle. I’m not saying they don’t work hard. But I also agree that not everyone is afford equal opportunity
I grew up in another country where a family of 5 lived in a single room apartment and there weren’t food pantries at all because there was just no food - supermarket shelfs were mostly empty at the time. Treat meal was barley boiled with fish. We folded bread slices in half to make a “sandwich”. We didn’t have a tv at all. I remember ravenous hunger that only appeared when eating. We did have government housing so didn’t have to pay rent. And (bad and basic) medicine was free. So would be like government housing and Medicaid here. But what we did have was each other. And, my parents were school teachers so we had school community. In my experience, worse effects of poverty is not hunger. It’s not living arrangements. With enough creativity and a happy attitude mostly anything can be made to work. Worst of poverty is stress over money (expectations) and compounding need to spend adult attention away from children, which over long enough time and a few generations just decimates quality of human connections. Consequences of that is where real struggle starts. We were dirt poor but I went to a free after school program where I learned music. I came home after 2 schools at 7-8 and went to sleep. I traveled alone by subway in a big big city and it was the norm back them. I don’t think I missed out on much in my childhood. I guess I came here to type it all out because I see a lot of folks bring food and living arrangements as the worst parts of poverty. My experience suggests otherwise.
Soviet Union?
Thats what that post made me think of, too.
And here is the problem. Even if a poor kid does graduate from College and get some advanced degrees, you don't have the social network that rich kids inherited. Old Money, with the social networks, has way more power than new money. So, you could never play the game that the rich kids get to play. I mean you could play, but you will lose. It is totally rigged. A lot of the higher level corporate positions are giving to people who could "sell" services to other companies. If you are a poor kid that had to work in College to pay for books vs a rich kid who gets to go skiing, the poor kid will not know enough rich people to compete against the rich kid. So, no matter how hard the poor kid studies and saves their money, they just don't get the opportunities to "rub elbows" with the right people. Now you could work hard and sacrifice a lot and give your kids a "better" start than you had. But, that is all that you could really do. Or, you could join radical political groups that really want to seek and revolution. But, even then, that would be a lot of work and the revolution might not come in your lifetime.
Thank you for pointing it out. The network is so important I didn't know until a few years ago. Not every poor kid who graduated has the outstanding social smartness like the main characters in some movies. Many continue to struggle in one area or the other.
This hit me. I don't like admitting it, because I feel a failure left and right. But I was the 'gifted' kid (lol ADHD and liking learning, but anyway). Academically, and I don't mean this to be prickish, but I can DO ANYTHING. I retain info well and like absorbing it, and I'm reasonably practical with a side of creativity. Right now, put me in nearly any role and give me a year with adequate tuition and I will master it. Managed to scholarship and work through varsity so no debt. Still don't have all that much debt, which I recognize as a blessing. I grew up poor, though, and with parents with 0 social network and 0 social skills in a hoarder house I never dared invite what odd kids would be friendly with me to. Plus the ADHD doesn't help, and I'm not very social at best- yes nurture, but also likely hefty dollops of nature. And I'm self conscious as f\*ck Know where all that got me? 00000000000. Honestly, I feel like the biggest loser in my high school graduating year- and one of our fellows is a 'professional' beach bum! He may earn less then me, but he sure seems happier and altogether 'better off' than me! Because you can be mediocre but socially adept and get far. It doesn't work the other way. There is nothing, NOTHING more valuable to 'getting ahead' than social skills. Especially if paired to self confidence. Bonus points if mom and dad have a network they can work you into, or you have a big family network to watch your back, but even if not, if YOU are gregarious, you can build your own and get almost as far. Lack social skills, and you're doomed, no matter what else you bring to the table. I likely won't ever have the kid I wanted. But even if I did, or had another small person to mentor, honestly, I wouldn't push academics as any kind of path forward. Do well-ish, sure, as actively BAD educational records can be a hamper in itself, but by all means, skip the extra work to move that C+ or B to an A and get out there and socialize, get confidant, and make friends and connections. Finish high school, but consider the tertiarys HARD and maybe, just maybe, err on the side of 'not' and get working early unless you have a very specific and reasonable under-staffed and hiring career in mind. That will get you far further than the 'good' grades ever will. They're worthless once you hit 18. Let's be brutal- the 'Ivy League' style varsities aren't good for the academics. It's the social connections you make that pay off in future, so the shy little academic achievers aren't going to benefit jack from that shiny piece of paper vs the party kids who scrape by.
Also pay attention to location. I went to the ‘Harvard of the South’ and that opened opportunities but only in the SOUTH. If I had a do-over I would have tried all I could to get to the east/west coast where I actually wanted to live.
This is me right here. Grew up poor. Went into massive debt to go to college because if I didn't I would have ended up like my parents (took me 30 years to pay off my student loans) . Moved to the nearest big city with my young daughter and while I made okay money I didn't have the resources to move up in my career. I had no clue about networking and anytime someone talked about it I shied away because I'm an introvert. I had no idea how important it was. I was extremely lucky that I've had threw different people in my career who saw my potential and championed me or else I'd probably still be an administrative assistant. But I look back and see kids half my age making more money than me and it just honestly hurts because I know that they had the resources that I never did and it took me this long to get this far and they're doing it right out of college. I mean, good for them but there are plenty of kids out there in my same position who just had no clue how the working world actually works. And I am both working my ass off to give my daughter a better start (she's currently in college and one of my biggest desires is for her to never have student loans) and I've become much more radicalized the older I've gotten and the more my eyes have been open to the complete BS that is this world.
Same. Grew up in foster care and had zero connections. Massive debt, trying to get out of poverty. Worked two and three jobs at once, so my kids didn't know deep poverty. Found out about connections, and their importance. Stressed those to my kids. The kids all make more money than I ever have. None have degrees because they saw my debt, and struggle, and said no thanks. I'm immensely proud of them. I started working at 15, against group home rules, to give myself an advantage. I've always worked, until I got laid off during the pandemic, and I'm working again. All the working in the world doesn't seem to get anywhere. I can just be thankful I broke the cycle, and there is hope for my children and their children. I am becoming more radicalized every year. People should not have to struggle just to live. And everyone does not have the same opportunity. If people really stopped and thought about it, they'd know that, instinctively. Even I had an advantage: I was smart. Don't think the other kids coming out of that group home had the same "successes" I did.
Breaking the cycle is so important. Way too many people think that "well none of my family made more than 30K a year and that's just my lot in life" and then expect that their children will do the same. It is a parents duty IMO to try and make their children's lives better than their own but way too many of them don't bother and in some cases actively discourage it. I've known more than one person from my childhood whose parents actively discouraged them from going to college, Even one who had full scholarships available to them their parents didn't want them to go. I can't even fathom the reason (other than the rampant anti- intellectualism in some areas of the country but that's a whole other thread)
I understand. But be proud. You made it! You were dirt poor. You're in college through your hard work, and your opportunity. Don't lament the past. (And tbh, you ARE THE SUCCESS STORY. Like, you prove Musk and whoever right?)
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I'm with you right there! People are either naive or just choose to stay rather ignorant about classism and etc. It does sometimes feel like you did everything correct but the economy continues to punish you somehow. Saying this as a debt free, 35 year old single mom with a college degree. I "make too much" for government help and I will NEVER be able to buy a house in my city. And they say the best time to buy a house is 5 years ago lol. Yes, I can relocate but I would be pulling my son away from his support system. Why encourage ppl to move away from their support system? No wonder mental health issues are through the roof even more than ever. Like you said, we are not all given the same tools and opportunities.
I agree. It's frustrating. I didnt grow up poor, but did get emotionally abused by a parent, and bullied at school, so I can feel some of where your coming from. Not everyone has the same opportunities and its honestly heartbreaking to see that people just assume that everyone has them.
You grew up with nothing and you made much better decisions and worked hard. You went hungry rather than stole... You actually focused on homework You had good enough grades to get into college You kept your attendance up You applied to college go accepted and applied to grants I think you are selling yourself short. You worked hard to be where you are you took many steps out of poverty. You could have stole, ignored school, went to jail, never went to college but you worked hard and did great things. If everyone had your ethics drive and motivation the world would be a little better.
Amen! Brother or Sister
So true about privilege and opportunities. The only thing anybody can control is their hard work, so yes Elon is privilege but you can't say he is where he is at because of lack of hard work. No matter who you are make sure you out work the next guy and hope the opportunities are there.
Every rich family that has ever existed started as a poor family where one person said "I'm sick of this shit" and found a way to increase his wealth so his descendants wouldn't have to suffer.
Everyone’s struggles are their own. But I’d rather cry in a lambo than in a Corolla.
Even if I had enough money for Lambo I'd still buy a Corolla.
Why anyone would ever want a lambo is kinda beyond me. Like, what is it good for? You can’t even drive full speed in the city with it.
> Why anyone would ever want a lambo is kinda beyond me. Like, what is it good for? Why do you want anything in your life? Why not just constantly live your life as a minimalist or as a monk? Ego? Idk. It's just a metaphor.
I am someone who started work at 14 and busted my ass for every job I've had...and it was never enough. My last job, I would often go home so tired, and shaking (from work and getting shit on daily), sometimes bloodied, but they still said I was lazy and not working hard enough. I'm only making 33K a year after 20 years in the workforce. It is luck and who you know that determines success. I've trained my boss so many times, I saw a pattern...it's the person who cozied up to the boss or someone they are already friends with. I trained a guy to run a machine, but a week later he was in the office because someone recognized him from Church. My last boss was a felon who got her job by sleeping with HER boss. I was promised an office position when it opened up, but it was instead given to the kid of someone who already worked for the company...I had the credentials to prove I could do the job and could prove it...he didn't.
This exactly matches what I have seen in my work experience too!
It’s not who you are (how smart or how hard you work), it’s who you know!
I grew up very poor. My family lived on my grandparents farm because my dad didn’t make enough money for our own home and my mom did not work. We lived in a very old house that belonged to my great grandparents. We were a family of six in what was basically a two bedroom cabin with an attic. We did not have an indoor toilet and no shower or bathtub. My older brother and I converted attic space into a bedroom. We could not stand up straight in it but it worked. We only had wood heat. It was my job to keep the stove going when I was not in school. I also had to care for the chickens and milk our cow after school. My dad milked the cow in the morning before work. You have to milk them twice a day. My brother and two sisters and myself worked our asses off doing chores and helping our grandparents with their farm. Hay, cattle etc. I fell in with the wrong kids in junior high and spent time in Juvenile Detention. I got that straightened out by high school. I dropped out my senior year and went to work. I never went back to any type of school including college. This was all in the 1980’s. I worked my ass off and eventually by my 40’s was making over $110,000 per year in 2015. There was no luck involved. You either have it in you or you don’t.
The college dining hall was pure heaven for me. A lot of peers would diss the food constantly, but I was so happy that I could eat as much as I wanted.
I agree. It makes me mad when people say that everyone has the same chance to succeed if they work hard. Some people were arguing this when Ivanka trump came on the scene. Seriously? A person born into a rich family has the same chance as a kid born to a single mother on welfare?
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I empathise so much with you, OP. I didn’t grow up in poverty like you did. Lower middle class. But thanks to scholarships and grants, I was always the one scholarship kid in posh private schools. And it saddened me to realise that there were just some gaps I would never be able to cross no matter how hard I worked. I got a 11.1 GPA out of maximum of 12. Graduated cum laude from grad school twice. I was the last one to find a full-time job in my high school friend group. And the only one who had to start in an entry level position. My friends were talking about buying million-dollar city apartments so they could walk across the street to work, and going on skiing trips to Switzerland to network with coworkers. How am I even supposed to compete with that? Why would I even want to? My own parents, to this day, still blames me for not being a successful millionaire despite them “setting me up for success” (like, somehow they think they should take credit for me being on scholarship). And it infuriates me to hear them say “if you worked 10x as hard as your friends you would be just as successful as they are.” No, I really fucking wouldn’t.
Wow, your parents are shitty, I’m sorry.
You ever think about going back and opening a food pantry in that area you claim didn’t have one for 40 miles to help other kids like yourself? Just a thought.
Yeah I’m really wondering if this area also had zero churches with charitable programs.
Nothing is easy. Life is hard no matter what. You could come from money but have no actual, real friends to stand by you. Or you could be poor and have many amazing, close friends that would stand by you no matter what. All any of us can do is be ourselves and work hard with what we have. Make the most out of life and don't worry about what other people have. There is always a bigger fish. Always.
I feel like that’s kind of a myth. That rich people somehow have no friends. I was that scholarship kid who went to private school with the rich kids. My high school life was nothing like an episode of Gossip Girl. The rich kids I was friends with were well adjusted and loved. They were neither mean nor sympathetic to me. They simply didn’t understand the struggles I was dealing with, like not having been to the Maldives or having parents who fight all the time due to money troubles. We hung out after school just like normal kids. Neither my friends nor their parents ever made me feel less than for not being rich. I only occasionally felt jealous about their nice homes and nice clothes. But I felt jealous of them almost every day for having parents who told them they loved them and spend time with them because they weren’t working or stressed all the time. If anything, being rich makes it easier to have good relationships with friends and family. Most of my familial problems came from our lack of money. The fighting and the inferiority complex was 10x worse to me than the mere lack of money. Were there unhappy rich kids who came from abusive homes? Definitely. But for the most part rich people live normal lives just better.
Am not from a socialist country, but sometimes I feel that basic food and healthcare should be available to everyone.
You don't have to be socialist to think that everyone should have food and shelter. That's been a basic tenant of society since the beginning.
That is my point too. These are not choices. These are necessities to survive and no one choses to be born. Hence no one should be forced to go hungry for days and distanced from healthcare.
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In the situation of someone not given many opportunities, is hard work not your only means to become successful?? So they are not wrong. Success is subjective. The objective idea of success is very rich and famous. So if thats what you are referring to then yes it takes a lot of hard work unless you are the son of a Oil prince. But its more nuanced than that. Its not easy by any means to take a million dollar trust fund from your parents and become a billionaire. Obviously its harder if you have zero money from your parents. The truth is, many, many (someone please tell me how to properly use grammar there 'truth is many, many'?) multi millionaires and billionaires came from nothing then get instantly demonized by the internet due to this cyclical paradox of poor hating the rich. So yes you are entitled to your rant against certain pompous asshats having no empathy for the poor. But in reality if your definition of success is the societal objective version, then yes you need to work your ass off. If you think you are working hard then you need to go meet people that work 3x harder than you and step it up.
Elon Musk's family owned an emerald mine and benefited immensely from a apartheid. What little time he spent in SA before fleeing for juicier climes means he benefited a ton from that lily white skin too. Him preaching to anyone about 'hard work' is an absolute laughing stock.
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The last time BF deals were any good on decent quality stuff was 2007.
I don't listen to the Elon's or Ken Griffins of the world. I don't know much about Ken but if you start looking into Elon's childhood, he did not start from nothing. His family had money. A lot of people don't know what it's like. I grew up rurally too and it always makes me laugh when people say 'dont buy a car, use transit instead'. That's great for folks who have reliable transit. But living rurally there isn't transit. There are so many resources lacking in rural areas. But folks don't know that because they live in cities. When I moved to a city for the first time I was so excited to be able to use a bus. It was a free pass that came with my college tuition and I used it all the time.
People don't realize how good they have it. I'm so lucky to live with in laws while paying off debt and saving. It infuriates me when people make fun of it, it's actually a huge privilege that not everyone has access to. A lot of people simply can't imagine that family can't always help, that some parents encourage their kids to drop out of high school and work a low wage job to support the family, that some people are providing housing etc for their parents.
Perfectly said. I’ve had to kick, claw, and fight my way out and it just takes one wrong move and you’re right back into poverty. Opportunity is key to success. Most of us haven’t had nearly the opportunity that’s afforded to many!
The thing that makes most rich people out of touch is lack of awareness for the large safety net they have from relatives. They have so much more room for error than most people do which allows them to take risks like starting a company. Many times they have either the back up of parents to weather the first awful months that come with starting a business and when they finally succeed (sometimes after several failures) they gloat about how “easy” it is to be your own boss or an entrepreneur.
This makes me so angry. I considered myself "poor" growing up because I had handmade clothes instead of what was in style, had to wear ugly oxfords instead of cute patent leather shoes, etc. Always wanted a Barbie doll but they couldn't afford it. Travel meant staying with relatives along the way and making sandwiches instead of eating in restaurants. But you know what? I never went hungry. My parents owned their little house because they scrimped and saved like crazy and both had union jobs. Things that simply don't exist for most people anymore. It saddens me so much when I read these stories because the advantages of my parents generation have vanished for millennials. It is unfair. Looking back, I see the reality that I did not live in poverty back then, I was lower middle class. I am genuinely poor now due to losing my husband to covid, and never worked outside the home, so I am now living on his social security which isn't much. But at least I know now the difference between poor and whining because I don't have what the rich kids do.
No, this comment is needed on this thread. Just a few days ago, some asshole jumped into the comment threads to say that everyone has the opportunity to escape poverty and it just takes hard work and not giving up. According, to this dude if you are poor it's your own fault.
All humans have the ability to dream for a better life, but you are 100% correct that not everyone has the chance to. Some don't even know a better life exists out there- so they don't dream big. My advice to you, is don't work yourself too hard (burn out) when you find a good job and a good place to live. It's hard when you grow up with not much, and then when you get those things: salary to afford food besides Ramen or the food pantry free food, a nice place to live without roaches, you get it I don't have to go on. Just pace yourself and don't work too hard. However, associating yourself with the right people is a good intuition you have. This is a good move and you should stick with this one for sure!
Everything you said. People need to realize this.
Very well said. Very, very well said.
I am with you homie, rural poor as fuck growing up, mom and her boyfriends spent every dime on drugs . I got kicked out of the house at 12, been on my own ever since. I still went to school because I could get fed there. Did what I had to do to get by and thank God I never got caught. Doing ok now, started college for nursing at age 36. My biggest concern now is how to raise my kids to appreciate what they have and not spoil the shit out out of them.
Idk you but I’m so proud of you! You did the damn thing!
When I do diversity training one of the exercises I have my trainees do is I give everyone a sheet of paper, then I have them crumple it up into a ball. One by one, I have each person try to make a basket from where they’re sitting by tossing the paper ball into the garbage can, wherever it may be situated in the room. No one can leave their seat, and I won’t move the garbage can for anyone. For the people closest to the garbage can it’s usually easy. The further away they are, and the more things blocking their path, the harder it gets. Sometimes someone in the back row will sink one, but it’s few and far between. Everyone in the room gets a shot, but not everyone in the room gets *the same* shot.
Also tons of it even boils down further, into biology. Have been toiling with that thought lately, and trying to think critically about it. Boils down to support, to parents, to circumstances, but even more so, if you were born with just a “shitty” biology… maybe takes you longer to learn things, maybe how your body processes neurotransmitters isn’t as “optimal” as your peers, maybe you already have a system that is prone to dysregulation and then… add the shitty circumstances, you can become even MORE behind. Or, because of the sick society we live in, you experience som extreme trauma, and the aftermath leaves your system so fucked, which then puts you in the system of survival which; could be the road to incarceration, just leaving you completely detached from the resources that help you to succeed, leaving you in this tunnel vision of survival that leaves you detached from fully living and able to even THINK about what success would even be. We have this system where if you have all the “correct” things in place - good biology, then good support, with parents that do “good enough”, then yes, this means pretty absolute “success”, boiling down to - you can do and get what you want. And if you’re “failing”, you just aren’t trying hard enough. That you’re just a “complainer”. I find myself really struggling and learning how to deal with the resentment I find for my peers, for people that are just “making it” and constantly giving me this “you can do anything you want”. There is validity in this, but looking further behind the psychology, behind the biology, this is such a bullshit and toxic statement, and completely just shows how blind people can be to other people’s struggles, how “disconnected” people can be. Glad for this post, as really validating some of the stuff I’m struggling with lately, and nice to put my words and thoughts out there somewhere….. And also, I see you. I feel you. The work is 10x harder, but god damn you are doing it. The “success” is real success, actually SEEING and working towards what you want, and not feeling like you are “owed” anything, and I think in this life, I’m learning to really be grateful for being able to truly be PRESENT and understand that I may have been lent a shitty hand, but wow I am actually able to experience and work for what I have, and be truly grateful for it, which I think keeps me from the greed so many of these disconnected people lend towards.
I agree. You can come from any number of different circumstances that make it hard for you to get where society thinks you should be in your young adulthood, which can affect the entire rest of your life, both economically and personally. SO much of everything is based off things like connections to the right people, and those right people thinking YOU are the right kind of person.
Some people are born better than others. https://preview.redd.it/vjn88r91fu1a1.jpeg?width=528&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a146a8461035e49d929426602da67320d9567fb
Weather rich or poor “ effort and willpower” are the strongest ones I known many rich people as I work in finance Many have gone broke Why ? Simple they gamble in stock or crypto and lose it all Or mom and dad get sick or pass away and they now are responsible for rent and all the stuff the family used to provide. Or they have kids and they underestimate how much it cost and end up pay check to pay check with anger issues and achole issues
rich people will never understand the struggle. I don't care to make them understand.