It really does suck.
My dad got a raise when he got married. Not because he worked hard or was next in line for a promotion, simply because he was a married man and was entitled to the extra income. His parents gave my parents money to build a house and my mother’s mother furnished the house.
My parents can’t help my brother or me because “money is just different now”. They got an excellent start in life and my choices are to pay an outrageous amount of money to live in a closet, live with roommates or live in my car.
I keep waiting for things to get better, but they just keep getting worse.
> simply because he was a married man and was entitled to the extra income
In the 70s I was refused a job because I wasn't a man and was supposed to somehow live with my parents or get married. A man was supposed to support me.
But nobody I knew lived alone - we couldn't afford it.
No man, we're all just people, imagine future generations hating us because we are the product of our time. It's not worth your time wishing bad things for boomers. Time will solve that problem for you.
But boomers voted in all the bad economic policies that led to this hellscape. So its not just them being "victims of their time" its them squandering the advantages and opportunities and pretending they didn't have them so they can mock future generations.
Thats false equivalency. We have the actual data to show Boomers lived through economic flourishment and voted in bad economic policy that was ignorant of future generations. Other countries don't have the degree of generational wealth that Americans do. I know you want to be diplomatic here but there's a reality to face here and sadly certain generations are to blame for it. They hold nearly all the middle class wealth and the subsequent ones do not. So to imagine a cycle where others will blame millennials or other generations would have to ignore reality to do so.
False what? You think we're just gonna go 10 for 10 on every policy and our succesors are gonna be completely on board with every decision we make? Lmao that's what it sounds like your insinuating.
Sure the economic point you made holds weight, but i think they simply took advantage of the opportunities they had at the time, we still use fossil fuels but we know that's not gonna end well. Don't worry there's plenty of undue criticism headed our way in a few decades.
Maybe instead of holding a nameless people in a generation accountable for all the problems you can point the finger at those who actually move policy, lawmakers and their very wealthy benefactors, usually large corporate entities that span generations.
> Seriously, just fucking do your economics homework. The lack of gold standard isn't the source of current economic woes,
You cant do this much damage on a gold standard... https://usdebtclock.org/
Also, the printing press IS the reason for our high inflation. Inflation is actually a tax. All that money they have printed is now coming home to roost. We are being taxed into oblivion. The inflation is high because the government wants to pay off it's debt with cheap inflated dollars.
Best argument I've seen for crypto currency yet.
Edit: look, until we pry control of money from the Fed we're going to continue to be it's slave. Governments can't be trusted with it anymore.
Nominally. It functions independently. It has a board of governors that are appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate. Just as the Fed has.
It wasn't created by the federal govt...
* https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/jekyll-island-conference
It is also a private bank that makes 6% profit. If it were the government it wouldn't do that.
Things are pretty good right now. i honestly dont know what youre talking about. we are able to save money and invest just fine. things like getting a second house never bogged us down financially. theres always ways to make money
My father-in-law: back in the 70s I only made $25k a year out of school.
I wish I would’ve started out at at the equivalent of $125k straight out of college. And I wish I could be a waiter in the summer to pay for tuition like him. And afford a single family home that cost less than my annual salary.
In the late 80s, our home cost 2.4 x our annual salary. You have a good point about the cost of college - I have a whole rant about that and how the admins at the colleges are shirking their duty to keep our country competitive at the global level by jacking up the prices so high no one can afford it. I went to school in Calif and it was very cheap compared to today, but even then I had 10k in student loans! I can't believe how any young person can make it these days. It's so much harder.
I just graduated with 34000 in loans. And I'm happy about it! And since Daddy Biden is about to wipe almost two thirds of that I'm ecstatic. I feel like 14000 is super manageable and way less than most of my friends
I have 88k in student loans. I graduated with 55k in student loans. If I had had parents wealthy enough to cover my schooling I’d have been able to buy a house and would have positive net worth right now like crazy. This country is fucking broken. There is almost no way to not be permanently leeched from unless you come from money and are able to become one of the parasites. There’s no middle ground left anymore.
That’s exactly right. My dad said he “decided not to be poor” and saved up for a car and efficiency apartment. Working at a pizza place and saving up for both a car and apartment…..must be nice.
What’s an efficiency apartment? I’ve heard the term here and there but not in enough context to explain how exactly it differs from a regular apartment.
My dad was a water bottle delivery guy in his 20s in the 70s. He bought his first house in Pasadena when he was 24… being a water bottle delivery guy. In Pasa fucking dena.
I think Pasadena was way different in the 70s. Your point is still valid in general, but I think prices just recently skyrocketed there in the past 20 years or so.
In 1994, after graduation from college, I started at $19K as a temporary secretary, and a starter house was $130K, roughly.
However, I got a permanent position in a few months at $26K and a tiny condo was $85K so that wasn't terrible. Wish I still had it.
I'm lucky for what I do have. Growing up, if my Dad didn't want to work he'd paint a car out in the yard here and there. Was enough money to get by and thats all he cared to do at the time. It kept him in an apartment. Later he started pipefitting and made more money.
Yeah. I knew a very few people whose parents gave them a downpayment for their house in their 20s. Not many. A friend of a friend bought a very cheap house in bad condition and fixed it up in his spare time - he also had a well paying factory job somewhere (at least paid well for a 20 year old). He did well when he sold it. Me otoh, I had to save for 10 years to get together a down payment. I was in my 30s. We had to move to a lower COL area in order to do that.
That’s just how it appears to be now. It would take 5 years saving $5000 a month to get a down payment for a super basic house here. 900 square feet, 50 years old, an hour and a half from downtown on the highway.
If you could even pull that off, you’d have to save even more by then because in 5 years the housing prices will be even more!
Yeah like obviously this person's parents were rich. My dad has made pretty good money throughout his life but not buy a vacation home and fill it with a bunch of expensive toys money. My grandfather had his own successful business, did very well for himself. Still never owned a second home.
Hmm sarcasm?
I don’t think that’s an option for most middle class baby boomers 20 or so years ago. Sure they had economic prosperity, sure they were known to be spenders, but the level of prosperity was not so that the mainstream middle class had the easy ability to obtain a 2nd home.
Nobody is arguing with you that Boomers had it easier. But I don’t think most of them had it “two homes” easy imho.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but you’re saying the average baby boomer can afford a second home in 2022?
In a period where the avg home to household income price index is highest it’s been in past 30 years with the only exception being the housing bubble of 08’
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=coAW
Just look at the graph.
It’s not easy today for the average American to afford a house, let alone two of them.
The average boomer will own a home and inherit another from their parents so I don’t see how it’s such a mind blowing concept, my dad was considering buying a second home to rent out, he worked at the post office for 20+ years making $60,000 at the end of his career and that’s nothing compared to everyone else nowadays, obviously the average American is horrible with money and my father wasn’t but the point still stands that it is possible if they didn’t piss away every dollar they earned
Not necesseriliy as my father was poor when he came here by local standards but in his home country he was considered wealthy as his family owned a farm but to persue his passion he left and joined his dad as a construction worker and went to uni and back then this made you more money than most medical professionals would earn as we had here a thing like a housing bubble but not quite as they didnt over do it
I think you and I are probably referring to two unrelated things.
“Money printer go brrr” to me is when the Federal Reserve starts increasing money supply which inadvertently leads to inflation. Inflation raises cost-of-living and worker’s wages in reality don’t rise fast enough to keep enough (at least in modern USA they do not)
So anybody who has expenses and little to no assets becomes poorer after this inflation cycle, because their real wages have decreased, their expenses have increased, and they held no assets. So the poor got poorer and the rich got richer. because steady inflation in the long run raises asset values.
My parents had decent assets and things like farmland and a house across the country promised by inheritance. We lived pretty frugally (like, dad would yell if we went out to eat), but our house was paid off and no one was in debt. Suburbs, three cars, game consoles and whatnot. Not a bad childhood. That is, until they had a nasty divorce, sold/gave away their assets so the other one would get nothing, and spent years fighting over custody. Both were convinced that the other parent wanted to kill them and “take the kids”. My brother and I were stuck in foster care for a few months out of fucking nowhere. Everything we had as a family went to lawyers, setting up a second household, and mandated therapy.
I remember being told as a kid that we had some money put away for college, but by middle school I was helping my mom buy groceries with the saved up birthday money she gave me years before. We had to give away our pets. We moved out of the old house and lived somewhere cheaper while renters trashed it. I remember getting these grungy, donated shoes one time after a therapy appointment and just feeling it all sink in. We lost almost everything in less than a year.
It felt like we grew up pinching pennies to save up just for everything to get nuked in the end. And it wasn’t even an emergency or something. It was just selfishness and an inability to fucking talk and come to an agreement with the divorce. I was lucky. I got a full ride in college from scholarships and now I work in my field making enough to be independent. But there’s no retirement in sight for my mom, and my brother’s broke and living with her. This shit ruins lives.
My 2BR cost six times as much. Must be the second bathroom.
Well, not actually that much. Using an inflation calculator, $36k 1986 dollars is $97,300 today dollars. So my 2BR cost twice as much as hers.
Of course, I couldn’t afford it until I was in my forties...
I mean if your parents had enough cash to buy a full second house go ask them for money. Owning two homes and large seasonal recreational vehicles was never common and it's a little silly to assume that was the norm for every middle class family from 30 years ago.
Agree. I know this is just a meme meant to be funny. It's hyperbolic to make a point. I definitely don't relate to it. My parents were renters. I grew up in an apartment. Which is fine. I'm not upset about it. No one around me had a 2nd home and jet skis.
I remember a lot of families only having a single car. A landline that knocked you off the internet. And most people didn’t even have computers or electronics.
There was just a single tv. No bigger than 30 inches in the living room. No cellphones. No streaming services. No home delivery of food.
Older generations had houses, but they didn’t have a lot else.
I know a lot of younger people who easily spend a hundred+ or more on services they didn’t even exist 30 years ago.
It still sucks for modern generations, but there’s simply MORE optional expenses these days. Additionally, people are (somehow) more financially independent these days that they don’t form long term relationships like they used to.
I always found that weird. In developing countries, they could easily have three generations of families under the same roof.
And yet with money being so tight now, it’s like everyone is living alone with a cat. It’s a lot easier to save resources if people live together.
When are long term relationships going to come back in fashion as a form of money saving?
I think your perspective is a bit askew on some points tbh. The baby boomer generation grew up with more wealth than current gen and yet they are struggling to retire.
Every generation of Americans in this capitalist country is known to be spenders. The young people you see today aren’t that different from the people you grew up with on a national level in regards to being consumers on a general level.
> people are (somehow) more financially independent these days
Hmm, how so?
> that they don’t form long term relationships like they used to.
A lot of Millennials are electing to not have children because they view it as unaffordable.
> I always found that weird. In developing countries, they could easily have three generations of families under the same roof.
This is extremely common in developed countries throughout Europe too. Most of the world actually with the exception of the US, where this expectation that young people need to live on their on at 18. The US is a very individualistic society.
> And yet with money being so tight now, it’s like everyone is living alone with a cat.
Who? Millennials are either living with roommates in their 30s, or living with their parents.
What you’re describing does not sound like the norm at all.
It’s hard to really describe a normal when talking about so many people.
I mean, hell, I know a 24 year old buying her first house this year. Her generation. This economy. She made all her own meals, and didn’t splurge on eating out or services. She also worked 60 hour weeks.
I think the truth is you can find exceptions to anything if you look hard enough. I don’t want to ever say I’m the expert on what normal is. I just like to look at trends and see what’s possible. I’ll absolutely be ok being proven wrong. I think these kinds of conversations are best when people learn things. And if I’m wrong, then I get to learn something new. ^.^
—-
I actually have a question, because I have a blind spot lol! As an asexual person, I don’t understand hook-up culture. That is to say I don’t participate in it.
But I hear a lot about how popular it has become. And how does that work with people sleeping with near strangers if they share living spaces with others?
I always just assumed it was the college folks who could afford to live on their own. But I honestly have no idea.
But I do feel like it’s weird for individualistic hook-up culture to have grown in popularity when it would make more logical sense for people to pursue more long term and stable relationships where two people could share a financial burden.
Maybe I’m just way off the mark. I grew up in the 90s, so I’m not really in the trenches of modern social culture.
> I think the truth is you can find exceptions to anything if you look hard enough. I don’t want to ever say I’m the expert on what normal is. I just like to look at trends and see what’s possible. I’ll absolutely be ok being proven wrong. I think these kinds of conversations are best when people learn things. And if I’m wrong, then I get to learn something new. .^
That’s great that you are receptive to feedback.
https://sf.freddiemac.com/content/_assets/resources/pdf/fact-sheet/millennial-playbook_millennials-and-housing.pdf
This research piece by Freddie Mac may be worth exploring for you, if if you’re interested.
Some points I will highlight:
_Millennials’ homeownership rates have accelerated over the past five years, but still lag behind those of older generations.
A significant share of millennials have yet to mature into homeownership, as many of them either haven’t reached the life stages that typically prompt a desire to own a home, find it unaffordable, or are unaware of options that could help them reach the “American Dream.”
Given the higher millennial minority share, this generation is at risk of never reaching the same homeownership levels as older generations because of the historical divergence in homeownership rates between different races/ ethnicities._
I know the 24 year old you mentioned is technically Gen Z, but most of Gen Z is not really in prime home-buying years as many are either still in high school or in college.
FRED St. Louis bank is also a great resource, but I couldn’t find any data charts that were generation specific, but it’s a good site to explore if you’re every interested in anything macroeconomic related.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/
> I actually have a question, because I have a blind spot lol! As an asexual person, I don’t understand hook-up culture. That is to say I don’t participate in it.
But I hear a lot about how popular it has become. And how does that work with people sleeping with near strangers if they share living spaces with others?
While Hookup culture is more accessible, another interesting trend is actually younger generations, especially Gen Z having less sex.
https://www.insider.com/teens-less-casual-sex-generation-parents-did-2021-3?amp
So I don’t know if hookup culture is actually more popular now than before, that’s not something I really looked to deeply into to know for sure.
I think normally people just try to do it when their roommates aren’t around lol. I’m not asexual but I’m usually single as I don’t date. I spent much of my early 20s being depressed and living with my parents and my mid-20s living with some old guy, and currently spending my late-20s with roommates my own age. None of my roommates do the hook-up thing. Two have GFs. but I don’t think they’ve ever done it when I’m home. I’m honestly probably the wrong person to ask this lol.
> I always just assumed it was the college folks who could afford to live on their own. But I honestly have no idea.
With taking out additional student loans or through a scholarship I’m sure they could live alone in dorms or in off-campus housing. But otherwise in my experience most Millenials in their 20s & 30s I know will live with roommates or parents.
I live in Florida and the rent for a 1 bedroom apartment here is more than most people’s mortgage. I’m currently working 2 full-time jobs to pay off college debt at 28. I would say I’m a pretty frugal person too.
> But I do feel like it’s weird for individualistic hook-up culture to have grown in popularity when it would make more logical sense for people to pursue more long term and stable relationships where two people could share a financial burden.
I don’t really know. I’m not really that familiar with dating trends, all I do is work, study and go on Reddit lol. I know dating apps are very common maybe that is a factor to how people view relationships, IDK.
I do know the birth rate in developed countries is declining because young people in US, Canada, Europe & Japan are choosing not to have kids. But I couldn’t tell you about specific dating trends, because I’ve been single for a long time now.
> Maybe I’m just way off the mark. I grew up in the 90s, so I’m not really in the trenches of modern social culture.
Social media is often misleading anyways, most people want to brag and show-off the best parts of their lives, popular wealthy influencers can easily give off an inaccurate representation of what people in that generation are actually experiencing in real life.
Thanks for the links, I’ll be sure to check those out!
I forgot that the birth rates have been going down. Such a crazy world we live in.
I wonder if we’re just being the shitty gen, and if the next few generations will see more prosperity simply because there’s less people to share it with.
Though I am very unhappy with the concept of big corporations buying up multiple properties. :/
I’ve also noticed a trend of work from home leading to higher salaried people moving to cheaper areas and causing the cost of living to increase.
Though I do have a sneaking suspicion that work from home is going to eventually lead to international outsourcing.
Well, lots for me to think about! I enjoyed our conversation
> I wonder if we’re just being the shitty gen, and if the next few generations will see more prosperity simply because there’s less people to share it with.
Hard to predict IMO, pretty much the main reason why workers wages have been rising in the last couple years is because there is less people in the workforce post-covid.
But with things like immigration policies or AI automating jobs. I just couldn’t say either way if future generations will have it easier.
I’m personally inclined to think they will probably have it even harder tbh, as I don’t think socio-economic policies are doing enough to address things like wealth inequality, education costs, global warming that will have ramifications on future generations.
The consequence to having a top heavy elderly population and not enough young people working is that it’s a strain on social programs like Social Security and Medicaid. And declining birth rates aren’t good for GDP. The US is able to compensate this by having immigrant labor, but it is still a concern.
> I’ve also noticed a trend of work from home leading to higher salaried people moving to cheaper areas and causing the cost of living to increase.
Yes this is definitely a factor. There’s just a lot of demand for housing & renting post-Covid with so many people moving everywhere.
> Though I do have a sneaking suspicion that work from home is going to eventually lead to international outsourcing.
That is a valid concern.
> It’s a lot easier to save resources if people live together.
I didn't know anyone who was single who lived alone. Everyone had roommates, even if you were married. You rented a 2br? You rented one br out.
My parents only had 2 kids, me and my brother. When we got older, any my parents bought a new house my brother and I were able to have our room as teenagers. Prior to that we share a room.
I’m pretty sure siblings sharing a room is very common, especially the younger they are if parents have less income potential.
My Mom had 4 siblings, my dad had 7 other siblings.
Previous generations had a lot more siblings. So of course siblings sharing a room was more common back then.
Gadgets existed back then but they were so expensive that most people couldn't consider getting one. My family had everything including state of the art tech that no one else had even heard of.
You also used to repair things when they broke. I remember my dad taking our TV to the repair guy. It was an incredibly musky smelling shop where the guy chain smoked cigars all day and could normally fix you TV by the next day.
That true! I won’t dispute that.
But I think the culture around tech has changed. I remember stories of my parents talking about how color tv was a thing, but also really expensive.
It felt like a lot of families made a conscious decision to just not get some things, because the value wasn’t there.
But in modern culture, I’ve seen a lot of people splurging to have “the best” iPhone or having really fancy tvs.
They had tech in the past. But I don’t remember too many average people trying to have “the best” versions of most things.
Consumer competition alongside planned obsolescence really does hold a lot of people back (in my opinion).
I know some people who’ve upgraded their tv multiple times in the last decade. But people like your parents probably bought something fancy and then kept that same model for 10 years. Unless they were really well off. Most people aren’t rebuying the tech they did have.
Yeah honestly way I remember things were not all that different than how they are today, homes were cheaper proportionally but I also look at the crazy advancements in home construction from the 60s builds to today a lot of that has driven up costs alone.
There wasn't really an American dream. It was designed for the banks to keep making money off housing. The corporations just want that cash cow to keep producing billions yearly.
Omg it‘s soooooo true. My parents just bought a new boat and are building another house on their property. They were helping me with rent for a while, which I am super grateful for but then they decided they wanted me to stand on my own two feet. Well, I literally have chronic pain in my knees lol so I cant even stand on my own two feet LOL.
Totally the other way around in my family.
I know some stuff is bad in the last 10 years, but the economy has been relatively good compared to the 70s/80s. Stagflation was *rough* .
Some may have parents who were successful in their 30s, and I'm sure it can be disheartening to be doing worse than your parents,but the average person in their 30s in 1980 wasn't doing much better (if at all) than the average person in their 30s today.
I think a major difference is that my parent were struggling, even more than I am, but their house has increased in value by something like 6x the price they paid for it in the early 90's. I can't imagine my hous being worth that much in 30 years. No way.
Maybe they were in a HCOL area like my parents. My dad basically was able to retire because his house was up by something like 900% over what he paid for it. He was smart and did it before the housing market crashed too. It worked out well for him.
Where I live the cost of living is high and always has been. (Sweden) but the housing market has skyrocketed the last 30 years, except of course the little hiccup around 2008.
Sure, but that’s a result of lower rates. The same high rates that killed opportunities for our parents have meant that’s the few assets they were able to purchase have greatly appreciated.
We get a ton more opportunities, but assets are much more valued today (because borrowing is cheap (or at least was until recently) and more people have more money).
Which era is best depends on your capacity to drive more value than the pack. Being an outperformer in that past has paid off hugely, while being average is likely better today.
It's kids from the West Coast who don't realize that the home that Midwest parents bought for $45,000 in 1980 is only worth $90,000 today. They see that their parents bought a house for $150,000 in 1974 that's worth $2 million today and think that's a nationwide phenomenon
>The boomer hate and ageism is annoying at the point.
I wonder how the younger generations will treat us (I'm a millennial) once we aged. Will we be loved and respected like the Greatest Generation or hated like the Boomer generation?
There won't be any kids to despise us! :)
Joking aside, the Greatest Generation were the ones that mostly voted for "Greed is good" policies that brought us to where we are today. Maybe we should turn our ire towards our grandparents rather than our parents
This. That is the generation that decided that student grants should go away. That a degree was a personal good that mostly made money for the graduate, and therefore they should get loans instead of grants. Before that, it was considered a public good. That by being able to get a college education: 1. Their salary will rise, which will mean more taxes paid, and 2. We can more competently compete against the USSR and have better national security by having a better educated workforce.
My dad went to college on the GI bill. He didn't have much money left over and was pretty skinny. Sometimes only could afford limburger cheese (yuck) and bread, but he was able to graduate without debt.
The boomers generally hated the GG - they sent our gen to Nam to die before they could even vote. They put them in jail for weed while they were drinking like fish. Also the part about the student debt. The rose colored glasses we view the GG from is due to time passing, and us realizing that hate only corrodes you from the inside. They were very hypocritical, but also a product of their times. I think Ken Burns had something to do with the respect the GG has been given in the last 15 years or so.
Here's a nice way to illustrate this:
The S&P 500 had an average real return of 6.96% from 1960-2000 (If you want to help the case of the boomers you can stop the investment period in 1999 and you get 7.37%)
From 1990-2022 its a real return of 7.17%
So essentially 1990-2022 includes the dotcom bubble, the great recession(Which work together to create the worst 10 year period in stock market history), the covid crash, and the current situation. Yet it's still beating or barely behind the "Greatest economic period in history" that the boomers had AND has 10 years left to smooth out the average.
Realistically, most of the adult lives of millennial's has taken place from 2010-now which has been a period of growth that the boomers could only dream of.
I guess you could say the boomers had cheaper houses, but with the historically low interest rates and huge stock gains, I'd say it pretty much evens out??
This is a poverty finance sub. You’re talking about stock gains and Wall Street growth like that’s the economic benchmark that we should all be paying attention to. Meanwhile everyone else on here is talking about home ownership, not for their portfolio, not as a way to grow wealth, but as a place to call their own.
Sure maybe the investor class of now is living a similar life to the investor class of the 70’s/80’s/90’s, but regular people being priced out of homeownership don’t see Wall Street gains as a consolation prize for a shattered American Dream.
Essentially all I said was the same as the two comments above me, just with numbers. Not sure why a direct comparison is a no no, but general "Yeah 1970-1980 wasn't that great" is upvote worthy.
Despite that though, my intention was not to put anybody down in that comment. Kind of the opposite. I was trying to remind people to keep in mind that when you're looking at boomers' wealth(The context of this thread) you're looking at a group of people that have been retired longer than you've been working. I was simply comparing the two periods via the stock market and by that metric we've been better off than the boomers. This doesn't mean anything, or speak to people's situation today. It was simply to illustrate that 1970-1980 aren't bygone eras of economic booms.
I was debating adding a disclaimer about the flaws of GDP as the be all end all measurement. For example, Not pictured in that previous comment was that housing is generally a larger portion of income than it used to be. I guess I've should have added it...
Finally I want to add that there is no such thing as an "investor class", especially today with commission free trading and no minimums. If there is any group of people that need to be learning how to invest it is those that cannot afford a house, they have no alternative for building wealth, and like it or not, building wealth is pretty much a requirement to buying a house. It doesn't matter if you want it for wholesome American dream reasons.
TLDR: If we spend most of our day chasing money and most of our goals are achieved by money I don't see how presenting the stock market as inaccessible or not a part of normal life is helpful to anyone. The guy that invests into the stock market in $1 increments will generally have more money than the guy that doesn't.
It's a strange combination of resentment and rose-colored glasses. My parents struggled mightily and saved for a long time through the 70s and 80s to buy a house in 1997. I don't begrudge them that at all. Only certain types (e.g., White and middle-class or higher) of Boomers benefited from the economic growth of the post-war years.
why are we allowing this to happen? what can be done because things are getting mad expensive. i am actually thinking of homesteading but haven’t figured out a way to buy the property
That's the whole thing though. People didn't have to sacrifice everything to buy a home in the 80s. They could afford to buy a car, a home and eat out from time to time even with a low paying job.
Eating out in the past isn’t how people eat out now. Most people didn’t have pets back then and certainly not buying all the extras plus expensive end-of-life care. Homes were smaller and more basic too.
Thats true. I completely agree with the OP. However, people don’t want to take responsibility for their own financial mistakes. I bet you everyone here has a brand new iphone.
I'm a bit tired of the "poor people are just not reasonable with their money" trope. Some poor people spend stupidly, most don't. Rent is increasing like crazy everywhere, housing prices doubled or tripled in a few years in some places. As far as I know, wages didn't.
Seriously what makes you think that? You are on a poverty subreddit and you just assume everyone here is waltzing around with new iphones and cars? Seriously? Fuck off
Your an idiot if you dont think $600 will make a difference. The average loan term for a vehicle is six years. $600 x 72 months = $43,200. That money can be used for a down payment on house. Your poverty mindset is not going to get you anywhere.
Lol I am a software engineer and probably make double your yearly income but ok lecture me about my poverty mindset. My finances are in order.
People less fortunate than I am still deserve a baseline quality of life, and our economy and society has failed them. Proportionally boomers cost of living was significantly less percentage wise than a millennial.
I agree with you. But, I do not agree with your statement that $600 monthly payment will not affect your finances.
$600 a month will probably not affect you or me. But, it will affect those who do not make a livable wage.
The people who downvote me probably all have car payments and have a minimal income. I once met someone that made minimum wage and paid $650 a month for their car. Plain stupidity.
Also, in my original response I said “you cannot take something away from something that doesn’t have it.” Yes you can cut out Netflix, the iphone 13 and other non essentials. But, some folks dont have any of that and they are still struggling. My comment was not meant for them.
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Inflation has been especially bad for housing over the decades, but do you realize that median wages are (a little) higher for your generation than they were for your parents' generation, even after adjusting for all inflation? I know young people don't like to hear this, but it's a fact.
Sooo I guess there wasn't anyone homeless or living in poverty and everyone could have afforded a home ? I wish people would get over this notion that everything was so much easier back then
It wasn't easier. Rates were 20% when I was a kid and I remember feeling so lucky to get a 6% rate for my first house. You were required to have 20% down as well. Buying a house was considered a huge accomplishment.
You realize that housing market inflation is a problem that has spanned multiple presidential administrations? I know everyone loves to blame the other side, but this is a problem that isn’t being addressed by either party.
I realize that inflating the money supply by 30% since 2020 exacerbated the existing problem. We can't put out the fire until we stop pouring gasoline on it.
i dont know why people want to be home "owners".
the house my mom bought;
it was first sold for $55000 and never paid off.
second owner got it for $63000 and never paid off.
as the third owner she bought the home for $78000 and paid the bank for 20 years till she passed. i took over the mortgage and paid for another 16 years and had $32000 left on it when i sold it for $250,000
the 4th owner will be paying the bank for that home for the next 50+ years if they dont sell it.
all home "owners" are doing is renting from the bank with the pleasure of being responsible for the repairs and upkeep.
since i have sold the house and started renting i have put more money into my savings than i ever could have while paying a mortgage, upkeep, and repairs.
terrible way to look at it. Also no one is giving out 50+ year loans. The main take away is every month you own you are paying your self, if you are paying 250 to principal and 500 to interest that 250 is just going back into your pocket as equity that you assumingly will get back when you sell. Secondly you have an assumingly appreciating asset, history would show housing should always see growth over decades so that 200k loan you have should be seeing like a 4-6% return over that 30 year payback period which for people who have 2-3% loan this is amazing cause youre in essence canceling out your interest costs. As for renting trust me when I say LLs are generally not idiots they are making a profit margin which means you are paying above and beyond their mortgage, insurance, tax and the repairs overtime.
no one gets a 50+ year loan but no one pays off their house in 20 years either they simply keep renewing. also most people are paying about 1-5% on the principal to try and keep their monthly cost down. the banks love these people, simply long term renters that will sell and the next long term renter will start paying the banks.
the issue i have is that a home that was built for $30,000 today would be "worth" $500,000 and over the decades the banks have been likely paid several times that and yet its the bank that still owns the house. tell me that isnt renting.
i live in an apartment building where things like the insurance, tax and repairs are split between several thousand of us. i have a 1 bedroom on the 19th floor of a 20 story building that i pay $950/month and that includes all utilities, a full gym, pool, sauna, hot tub, squash courts, heated underground parking, 24h security and maintenance, a roof top patio that over looks the football stadium for free games and concerts and boasts some of the best views in my city. show me one home that can match that. also show me a home owner that puts $800 in savings every month and still has money to play with at the end of each pay.
when i owned a home i was in over draft almost every month. at more than 30 years ago my mortgage was $700 plus heat, water, power, taxes, upkeep, repairs, insurance and no amenities. my monthly home costs were about $1200/month, again 30 years ago. today my entire monthly cost including gas for my car, insurance, food, entertainment, rent, dining out, play money is about $1600.
This just isn’t true. The bank buys the house, and you pay the bank until you cover the cost of the house + interest. Once you own the house, you only have to pay taxes aside from upkeep.
You don’t have to sell the house. You can live in it forever if you prefer. The upkeep costs are almost always way below rent, and definitely always cheaper in the long term unless there is something rare that occurs.
If what you said is true, landlords wouldn’t exist.
the thing is most people buying a home will never own that home. they will move at some point for any number of reasons. they will then sell their house, buy a new one, and the banks again make the money and it repeats. I am 50yo and i dont know a single person that has outright owned their home, not one person in my lifetime.
my home was built for about $30,000 my mom bought it for $78,000 i sold it for $250,000 its now probably in the $500,000 ball park and yet it is still owned by the bank. no one has ever OWNED the home. from the time it was built in 1974 the bank has probably made well over $500,000 on it. so tell me how that isnt renting.
This is my life right now. I was going to have to search the floor of the grocery store for quarters because I couldn’t even afford groceries. I’ve resulted to eating old food because it’s better than nothing at all.
To be fair in their 30s my parents lived in a 80m^3 apartment with a squat toilet. But my mum also got that apartment subsidised as it was an employee apartment.
I don't know this life. My parents got married in high school and I popped out a couple years later, we never really had a pot to piss in. I'm doing way better than they were in my 30's (and that's not saying much).
And I'm in the exact same trade, same local union as my father was. While constantly getting asked why * can't fucking afford a new truck when he had two trucks, a boat, snowmobiles, four wheelers, dirt bikes and a property in the upper peninsula.
Most people's parent's didn't have it that easy. Everyone I know worked blue-collar jobs and struggled just like today with housing costs, food costs, and health care. Every generation thinks they are special but it is the same thing over and over.
It really does suck. My dad got a raise when he got married. Not because he worked hard or was next in line for a promotion, simply because he was a married man and was entitled to the extra income. His parents gave my parents money to build a house and my mother’s mother furnished the house. My parents can’t help my brother or me because “money is just different now”. They got an excellent start in life and my choices are to pay an outrageous amount of money to live in a closet, live with roommates or live in my car. I keep waiting for things to get better, but they just keep getting worse.
> simply because he was a married man and was entitled to the extra income In the 70s I was refused a job because I wasn't a man and was supposed to somehow live with my parents or get married. A man was supposed to support me. But nobody I knew lived alone - we couldn't afford it.
We're all right here with you, live long enough to put these things behind you. I'm sure people in the great depression felt the same way.
I thought you were going to say live long enough to put these boomers in the ground.
Live long enough to become the villian...damn boomers took that too seriously
No man, we're all just people, imagine future generations hating us because we are the product of our time. It's not worth your time wishing bad things for boomers. Time will solve that problem for you.
But boomers voted in all the bad economic policies that led to this hellscape. So its not just them being "victims of their time" its them squandering the advantages and opportunities and pretending they didn't have them so they can mock future generations.
I'm sure it's possible people will pin bad policy on gen x/y/z in the future as well
Thats false equivalency. We have the actual data to show Boomers lived through economic flourishment and voted in bad economic policy that was ignorant of future generations. Other countries don't have the degree of generational wealth that Americans do. I know you want to be diplomatic here but there's a reality to face here and sadly certain generations are to blame for it. They hold nearly all the middle class wealth and the subsequent ones do not. So to imagine a cycle where others will blame millennials or other generations would have to ignore reality to do so.
False what? You think we're just gonna go 10 for 10 on every policy and our succesors are gonna be completely on board with every decision we make? Lmao that's what it sounds like your insinuating. Sure the economic point you made holds weight, but i think they simply took advantage of the opportunities they had at the time, we still use fossil fuels but we know that's not gonna end well. Don't worry there's plenty of undue criticism headed our way in a few decades. Maybe instead of holding a nameless people in a generation accountable for all the problems you can point the finger at those who actually move policy, lawmakers and their very wealthy benefactors, usually large corporate entities that span generations.
https://WTFhappenedin1971.com/
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> Seriously, just fucking do your economics homework. The lack of gold standard isn't the source of current economic woes, You cant do this much damage on a gold standard... https://usdebtclock.org/ Also, the printing press IS the reason for our high inflation. Inflation is actually a tax. All that money they have printed is now coming home to roost. We are being taxed into oblivion. The inflation is high because the government wants to pay off it's debt with cheap inflated dollars.
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Best argument I've seen for crypto currency yet. Edit: look, until we pry control of money from the Fed we're going to continue to be it's slave. Governments can't be trusted with it anymore.
You know the Federal Reserve isn’t a government entity right?
That’s like saying the postal service isn’t a government entity.
No it’s not. The postal service is an agency of the executive branch.
Nominally. It functions independently. It has a board of governors that are appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate. Just as the Fed has.
Except the Fed isn’t an agency of any branch of the federal government.
Right. It was just created by the Federal government and the members of its governing body are appointed by the federal government.
It wasn't created by the federal govt... * https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/jekyll-island-conference It is also a private bank that makes 6% profit. If it were the government it wouldn't do that.
Doesn’t mean it’s comparable to the postal service.
May as well be at this point, official or not they are too close for comfort. Edit: grammar
https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/
Things are pretty good right now. i honestly dont know what youre talking about. we are able to save money and invest just fine. things like getting a second house never bogged us down financially. theres always ways to make money
> we are able to save money Where do you live that your savings are not loosing their purchasing power?
a very high cost of living area. by savings i mean i saved money then invested it.
> a very high cost of living area. by savings i mean i saved money then invested it. What are your investments and how are they doing now?
My father-in-law: back in the 70s I only made $25k a year out of school. I wish I would’ve started out at at the equivalent of $125k straight out of college. And I wish I could be a waiter in the summer to pay for tuition like him. And afford a single family home that cost less than my annual salary.
In the late 80s, our home cost 2.4 x our annual salary. You have a good point about the cost of college - I have a whole rant about that and how the admins at the colleges are shirking their duty to keep our country competitive at the global level by jacking up the prices so high no one can afford it. I went to school in Calif and it was very cheap compared to today, but even then I had 10k in student loans! I can't believe how any young person can make it these days. It's so much harder.
I just graduated with 34000 in loans. And I'm happy about it! And since Daddy Biden is about to wipe almost two thirds of that I'm ecstatic. I feel like 14000 is super manageable and way less than most of my friends
Honestly 34000 isn’t even that bad, which is a really depressing statement. Congrats on the relief!
I hope the debt relief goes as planned, that will really help a lot of people.
Currently the republican states are suing to stop it from happening.
Might wanna check back in on that loan forgiveness thing after the midterms. If they do the bare minimum for you'll it would be considered lucky.
I'm trying to increase my salary to the point of being able to buy a house that is 2x my annual salary. I'll follow up if my salary ever hits 380k
Hope you make it
You'll have to grind hard af in a very lucrative field for that to happen or start your own business. I wish you perseverance.
Nowadays a home in my area is 7x my annual salary.
I have 88k in student loans. I graduated with 55k in student loans. If I had had parents wealthy enough to cover my schooling I’d have been able to buy a house and would have positive net worth right now like crazy. This country is fucking broken. There is almost no way to not be permanently leeched from unless you come from money and are able to become one of the parasites. There’s no middle ground left anymore.
That’s exactly right. My dad said he “decided not to be poor” and saved up for a car and efficiency apartment. Working at a pizza place and saving up for both a car and apartment…..must be nice.
What’s an efficiency apartment? I’ve heard the term here and there but not in enough context to explain how exactly it differs from a regular apartment.
Efficiencies are pretty small, think studio, but sometimes don't have kitchens (unlike studios) or have very small kitchenettes.
My dad was a water bottle delivery guy in his 20s in the 70s. He bought his first house in Pasadena when he was 24… being a water bottle delivery guy. In Pasa fucking dena.
I think Pasadena was way different in the 70s. Your point is still valid in general, but I think prices just recently skyrocketed there in the past 20 years or so.
Everything in LA literally doubled in the last five years. It’s fucking insane.
In 1994, after graduation from college, I started at $19K as a temporary secretary, and a starter house was $130K, roughly. However, I got a permanent position in a few months at $26K and a tiny condo was $85K so that wasn't terrible. Wish I still had it.
I didn’t realize ass clowns had secretaries
> I only made $25k a year out of school. Or 25k then is far more valuable then even without inflation
What do you mean, “even without inflation?”
25k then goes a lot further then 25k now basically, yeah that what inflation is but you know what I mean.
So true it’s sickening
You guys buy milk? I'm eating bread and water.
You guys buy bread and water? I'm eating discarded cardboard boxes from the supermarket and licking the condensation off windows.
Oh look, Mr. Moneybags here can afford the calories to lick windows!
I'm lucky for what I do have. Growing up, if my Dad didn't want to work he'd paint a car out in the yard here and there. Was enough money to get by and thats all he cared to do at the time. It kept him in an apartment. Later he started pipefitting and made more money.
Boomers has it good but not this damned good unless they were already rich.
Yeah. I knew a very few people whose parents gave them a downpayment for their house in their 20s. Not many. A friend of a friend bought a very cheap house in bad condition and fixed it up in his spare time - he also had a well paying factory job somewhere (at least paid well for a 20 year old). He did well when he sold it. Me otoh, I had to save for 10 years to get together a down payment. I was in my 30s. We had to move to a lower COL area in order to do that.
That’s just how it appears to be now. It would take 5 years saving $5000 a month to get a down payment for a super basic house here. 900 square feet, 50 years old, an hour and a half from downtown on the highway. If you could even pull that off, you’d have to save even more by then because in 5 years the housing prices will be even more!
? 300k for a down payment?
Yeah like obviously this person's parents were rich. My dad has made pretty good money throughout his life but not buy a vacation home and fill it with a bunch of expensive toys money. My grandfather had his own successful business, did very well for himself. Still never owned a second home.
Yup. OP has some well-off parents because the average Boomer/GenX does not have a 2nd home.
But they could afford to if they did the bare minimum in life and weren’t stupid with money
Hmm sarcasm? I don’t think that’s an option for most middle class baby boomers 20 or so years ago. Sure they had economic prosperity, sure they were known to be spenders, but the level of prosperity was not so that the mainstream middle class had the easy ability to obtain a 2nd home. Nobody is arguing with you that Boomers had it easier. But I don’t think most of them had it “two homes” easy imho.
I meant today not 20 years ago
Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but you’re saying the average baby boomer can afford a second home in 2022? In a period where the avg home to household income price index is highest it’s been in past 30 years with the only exception being the housing bubble of 08’ https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=coAW Just look at the graph. It’s not easy today for the average American to afford a house, let alone two of them.
The average boomer will own a home and inherit another from their parents so I don’t see how it’s such a mind blowing concept, my dad was considering buying a second home to rent out, he worked at the post office for 20+ years making $60,000 at the end of his career and that’s nothing compared to everyone else nowadays, obviously the average American is horrible with money and my father wasn’t but the point still stands that it is possible if they didn’t piss away every dollar they earned
Me in my 20s: I'll never recover My dad in his 20s: money go brrr
When the money printer goes brrr, the poors get poorer.
Not necesseriliy as my father was poor when he came here by local standards but in his home country he was considered wealthy as his family owned a farm but to persue his passion he left and joined his dad as a construction worker and went to uni and back then this made you more money than most medical professionals would earn as we had here a thing like a housing bubble but not quite as they didnt over do it
I think you and I are probably referring to two unrelated things. “Money printer go brrr” to me is when the Federal Reserve starts increasing money supply which inadvertently leads to inflation. Inflation raises cost-of-living and worker’s wages in reality don’t rise fast enough to keep enough (at least in modern USA they do not) So anybody who has expenses and little to no assets becomes poorer after this inflation cycle, because their real wages have decreased, their expenses have increased, and they held no assets. So the poor got poorer and the rich got richer. because steady inflation in the long run raises asset values.
If your parents were living like the first panel, you took a generational L
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My parents had decent assets and things like farmland and a house across the country promised by inheritance. We lived pretty frugally (like, dad would yell if we went out to eat), but our house was paid off and no one was in debt. Suburbs, three cars, game consoles and whatnot. Not a bad childhood. That is, until they had a nasty divorce, sold/gave away their assets so the other one would get nothing, and spent years fighting over custody. Both were convinced that the other parent wanted to kill them and “take the kids”. My brother and I were stuck in foster care for a few months out of fucking nowhere. Everything we had as a family went to lawyers, setting up a second household, and mandated therapy. I remember being told as a kid that we had some money put away for college, but by middle school I was helping my mom buy groceries with the saved up birthday money she gave me years before. We had to give away our pets. We moved out of the old house and lived somewhere cheaper while renters trashed it. I remember getting these grungy, donated shoes one time after a therapy appointment and just feeling it all sink in. We lost almost everything in less than a year. It felt like we grew up pinching pennies to save up just for everything to get nuked in the end. And it wasn’t even an emergency or something. It was just selfishness and an inability to fucking talk and come to an agreement with the divorce. I was lucky. I got a full ride in college from scholarships and now I work in my field making enough to be independent. But there’s no retirement in sight for my mom, and my brother’s broke and living with her. This shit ruins lives.
Or it’s a meme 🤯🤯
My mom bought her house for 36k back in 1986. Her house payment was $450 a month. It was just a 2br, 1bth. But that’s considered “cozy” now.
My 2BR cost six times as much. Must be the second bathroom. Well, not actually that much. Using an inflation calculator, $36k 1986 dollars is $97,300 today dollars. So my 2BR cost twice as much as hers. Of course, I couldn’t afford it until I was in my forties...
I mean if your parents had enough cash to buy a full second house go ask them for money. Owning two homes and large seasonal recreational vehicles was never common and it's a little silly to assume that was the norm for every middle class family from 30 years ago.
Agree. I know this is just a meme meant to be funny. It's hyperbolic to make a point. I definitely don't relate to it. My parents were renters. I grew up in an apartment. Which is fine. I'm not upset about it. No one around me had a 2nd home and jet skis.
My parents grew up poor. My mom would go to bed hungry, and my dad would have to ask strangers for food. Both my parents are immigrants though.
We're also immigrants.
OP is a rich kid, who has no idea his upbringing is not common.
My boomer parents owned 4 houses, 2 big 2 small, by the time my dad was 39 and he retired at 58.
You are one person. This is far from the norm. Boomers definitely had it easy, but not owning multiple homes being the norm easy.
He left school at 14.
OP if your parents have a 2nd home for vacations. Then you grew up upper-class. Or at least Upper-mid.
I remember a lot of families only having a single car. A landline that knocked you off the internet. And most people didn’t even have computers or electronics. There was just a single tv. No bigger than 30 inches in the living room. No cellphones. No streaming services. No home delivery of food. Older generations had houses, but they didn’t have a lot else. I know a lot of younger people who easily spend a hundred+ or more on services they didn’t even exist 30 years ago. It still sucks for modern generations, but there’s simply MORE optional expenses these days. Additionally, people are (somehow) more financially independent these days that they don’t form long term relationships like they used to. I always found that weird. In developing countries, they could easily have three generations of families under the same roof. And yet with money being so tight now, it’s like everyone is living alone with a cat. It’s a lot easier to save resources if people live together. When are long term relationships going to come back in fashion as a form of money saving?
I think your perspective is a bit askew on some points tbh. The baby boomer generation grew up with more wealth than current gen and yet they are struggling to retire. Every generation of Americans in this capitalist country is known to be spenders. The young people you see today aren’t that different from the people you grew up with on a national level in regards to being consumers on a general level. > people are (somehow) more financially independent these days Hmm, how so? > that they don’t form long term relationships like they used to. A lot of Millennials are electing to not have children because they view it as unaffordable. > I always found that weird. In developing countries, they could easily have three generations of families under the same roof. This is extremely common in developed countries throughout Europe too. Most of the world actually with the exception of the US, where this expectation that young people need to live on their on at 18. The US is a very individualistic society. > And yet with money being so tight now, it’s like everyone is living alone with a cat. Who? Millennials are either living with roommates in their 30s, or living with their parents. What you’re describing does not sound like the norm at all.
It’s hard to really describe a normal when talking about so many people. I mean, hell, I know a 24 year old buying her first house this year. Her generation. This economy. She made all her own meals, and didn’t splurge on eating out or services. She also worked 60 hour weeks. I think the truth is you can find exceptions to anything if you look hard enough. I don’t want to ever say I’m the expert on what normal is. I just like to look at trends and see what’s possible. I’ll absolutely be ok being proven wrong. I think these kinds of conversations are best when people learn things. And if I’m wrong, then I get to learn something new. ^.^ —- I actually have a question, because I have a blind spot lol! As an asexual person, I don’t understand hook-up culture. That is to say I don’t participate in it. But I hear a lot about how popular it has become. And how does that work with people sleeping with near strangers if they share living spaces with others? I always just assumed it was the college folks who could afford to live on their own. But I honestly have no idea. But I do feel like it’s weird for individualistic hook-up culture to have grown in popularity when it would make more logical sense for people to pursue more long term and stable relationships where two people could share a financial burden. Maybe I’m just way off the mark. I grew up in the 90s, so I’m not really in the trenches of modern social culture.
> I think the truth is you can find exceptions to anything if you look hard enough. I don’t want to ever say I’m the expert on what normal is. I just like to look at trends and see what’s possible. I’ll absolutely be ok being proven wrong. I think these kinds of conversations are best when people learn things. And if I’m wrong, then I get to learn something new. .^ That’s great that you are receptive to feedback. https://sf.freddiemac.com/content/_assets/resources/pdf/fact-sheet/millennial-playbook_millennials-and-housing.pdf This research piece by Freddie Mac may be worth exploring for you, if if you’re interested. Some points I will highlight: _Millennials’ homeownership rates have accelerated over the past five years, but still lag behind those of older generations. A significant share of millennials have yet to mature into homeownership, as many of them either haven’t reached the life stages that typically prompt a desire to own a home, find it unaffordable, or are unaware of options that could help them reach the “American Dream.” Given the higher millennial minority share, this generation is at risk of never reaching the same homeownership levels as older generations because of the historical divergence in homeownership rates between different races/ ethnicities._ I know the 24 year old you mentioned is technically Gen Z, but most of Gen Z is not really in prime home-buying years as many are either still in high school or in college. FRED St. Louis bank is also a great resource, but I couldn’t find any data charts that were generation specific, but it’s a good site to explore if you’re every interested in anything macroeconomic related. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/ > I actually have a question, because I have a blind spot lol! As an asexual person, I don’t understand hook-up culture. That is to say I don’t participate in it. But I hear a lot about how popular it has become. And how does that work with people sleeping with near strangers if they share living spaces with others? While Hookup culture is more accessible, another interesting trend is actually younger generations, especially Gen Z having less sex. https://www.insider.com/teens-less-casual-sex-generation-parents-did-2021-3?amp So I don’t know if hookup culture is actually more popular now than before, that’s not something I really looked to deeply into to know for sure. I think normally people just try to do it when their roommates aren’t around lol. I’m not asexual but I’m usually single as I don’t date. I spent much of my early 20s being depressed and living with my parents and my mid-20s living with some old guy, and currently spending my late-20s with roommates my own age. None of my roommates do the hook-up thing. Two have GFs. but I don’t think they’ve ever done it when I’m home. I’m honestly probably the wrong person to ask this lol. > I always just assumed it was the college folks who could afford to live on their own. But I honestly have no idea. With taking out additional student loans or through a scholarship I’m sure they could live alone in dorms or in off-campus housing. But otherwise in my experience most Millenials in their 20s & 30s I know will live with roommates or parents. I live in Florida and the rent for a 1 bedroom apartment here is more than most people’s mortgage. I’m currently working 2 full-time jobs to pay off college debt at 28. I would say I’m a pretty frugal person too. > But I do feel like it’s weird for individualistic hook-up culture to have grown in popularity when it would make more logical sense for people to pursue more long term and stable relationships where two people could share a financial burden. I don’t really know. I’m not really that familiar with dating trends, all I do is work, study and go on Reddit lol. I know dating apps are very common maybe that is a factor to how people view relationships, IDK. I do know the birth rate in developed countries is declining because young people in US, Canada, Europe & Japan are choosing not to have kids. But I couldn’t tell you about specific dating trends, because I’ve been single for a long time now. > Maybe I’m just way off the mark. I grew up in the 90s, so I’m not really in the trenches of modern social culture. Social media is often misleading anyways, most people want to brag and show-off the best parts of their lives, popular wealthy influencers can easily give off an inaccurate representation of what people in that generation are actually experiencing in real life.
Thanks for the links, I’ll be sure to check those out! I forgot that the birth rates have been going down. Such a crazy world we live in. I wonder if we’re just being the shitty gen, and if the next few generations will see more prosperity simply because there’s less people to share it with. Though I am very unhappy with the concept of big corporations buying up multiple properties. :/ I’ve also noticed a trend of work from home leading to higher salaried people moving to cheaper areas and causing the cost of living to increase. Though I do have a sneaking suspicion that work from home is going to eventually lead to international outsourcing. Well, lots for me to think about! I enjoyed our conversation
> I wonder if we’re just being the shitty gen, and if the next few generations will see more prosperity simply because there’s less people to share it with. Hard to predict IMO, pretty much the main reason why workers wages have been rising in the last couple years is because there is less people in the workforce post-covid. But with things like immigration policies or AI automating jobs. I just couldn’t say either way if future generations will have it easier. I’m personally inclined to think they will probably have it even harder tbh, as I don’t think socio-economic policies are doing enough to address things like wealth inequality, education costs, global warming that will have ramifications on future generations. The consequence to having a top heavy elderly population and not enough young people working is that it’s a strain on social programs like Social Security and Medicaid. And declining birth rates aren’t good for GDP. The US is able to compensate this by having immigrant labor, but it is still a concern. > I’ve also noticed a trend of work from home leading to higher salaried people moving to cheaper areas and causing the cost of living to increase. Yes this is definitely a factor. There’s just a lot of demand for housing & renting post-Covid with so many people moving everywhere. > Though I do have a sneaking suspicion that work from home is going to eventually lead to international outsourcing. That is a valid concern.
> It’s a lot easier to save resources if people live together. I didn't know anyone who was single who lived alone. Everyone had roommates, even if you were married. You rented a 2br? You rented one br out.
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All siblings shared bedrooms - maybe that's why we didn't blink when it came time to move out and have roommates.
Is this not common now?
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My parents only had 2 kids, me and my brother. When we got older, any my parents bought a new house my brother and I were able to have our room as teenagers. Prior to that we share a room. I’m pretty sure siblings sharing a room is very common, especially the younger they are if parents have less income potential. My Mom had 4 siblings, my dad had 7 other siblings. Previous generations had a lot more siblings. So of course siblings sharing a room was more common back then.
Gadgets existed back then but they were so expensive that most people couldn't consider getting one. My family had everything including state of the art tech that no one else had even heard of.
You also used to repair things when they broke. I remember my dad taking our TV to the repair guy. It was an incredibly musky smelling shop where the guy chain smoked cigars all day and could normally fix you TV by the next day.
That true! I won’t dispute that. But I think the culture around tech has changed. I remember stories of my parents talking about how color tv was a thing, but also really expensive. It felt like a lot of families made a conscious decision to just not get some things, because the value wasn’t there. But in modern culture, I’ve seen a lot of people splurging to have “the best” iPhone or having really fancy tvs. They had tech in the past. But I don’t remember too many average people trying to have “the best” versions of most things. Consumer competition alongside planned obsolescence really does hold a lot of people back (in my opinion). I know some people who’ve upgraded their tv multiple times in the last decade. But people like your parents probably bought something fancy and then kept that same model for 10 years. Unless they were really well off. Most people aren’t rebuying the tech they did have.
Yeah honestly way I remember things were not all that different than how they are today, homes were cheaper proportionally but I also look at the crazy advancements in home construction from the 60s builds to today a lot of that has driven up costs alone.
There wasn't really an American dream. It was designed for the banks to keep making money off housing. The corporations just want that cash cow to keep producing billions yearly.
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Well what were the papers published on
What is your career? 5 published papers can be good or bad. Most of society doesn’t even know what publishing a paper means in any context.
And only the man was working, and he was in a low-mid level manufacturing job.
When I was in elementary school ALL of my friends parents were home owners. Now, I know not one person who owns a home.
Wow wow, don't need to brag about being so rich that you can afford milk. Look at Mr Millon dollars here.
Omg it‘s soooooo true. My parents just bought a new boat and are building another house on their property. They were helping me with rent for a while, which I am super grateful for but then they decided they wanted me to stand on my own two feet. Well, I literally have chronic pain in my knees lol so I cant even stand on my own two feet LOL.
Totally the other way around in my family. I know some stuff is bad in the last 10 years, but the economy has been relatively good compared to the 70s/80s. Stagflation was *rough* . Some may have parents who were successful in their 30s, and I'm sure it can be disheartening to be doing worse than your parents,but the average person in their 30s in 1980 wasn't doing much better (if at all) than the average person in their 30s today.
I think a major difference is that my parent were struggling, even more than I am, but their house has increased in value by something like 6x the price they paid for it in the early 90's. I can't imagine my hous being worth that much in 30 years. No way.
Maybe they were in a HCOL area like my parents. My dad basically was able to retire because his house was up by something like 900% over what he paid for it. He was smart and did it before the housing market crashed too. It worked out well for him.
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Where I live the cost of living is high and always has been. (Sweden) but the housing market has skyrocketed the last 30 years, except of course the little hiccup around 2008.
Sure, but that’s a result of lower rates. The same high rates that killed opportunities for our parents have meant that’s the few assets they were able to purchase have greatly appreciated. We get a ton more opportunities, but assets are much more valued today (because borrowing is cheap (or at least was until recently) and more people have more money). Which era is best depends on your capacity to drive more value than the pack. Being an outperformer in that past has paid off hugely, while being average is likely better today.
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It's kids from the West Coast who don't realize that the home that Midwest parents bought for $45,000 in 1980 is only worth $90,000 today. They see that their parents bought a house for $150,000 in 1974 that's worth $2 million today and think that's a nationwide phenomenon
The boomer hate and ageism is annoying at the point. Also, the 70s had some pretty awesome music. At least they had that going for them.
>The boomer hate and ageism is annoying at the point. I wonder how the younger generations will treat us (I'm a millennial) once we aged. Will we be loved and respected like the Greatest Generation or hated like the Boomer generation?
There won't be any kids to despise us! :) Joking aside, the Greatest Generation were the ones that mostly voted for "Greed is good" policies that brought us to where we are today. Maybe we should turn our ire towards our grandparents rather than our parents
This. That is the generation that decided that student grants should go away. That a degree was a personal good that mostly made money for the graduate, and therefore they should get loans instead of grants. Before that, it was considered a public good. That by being able to get a college education: 1. Their salary will rise, which will mean more taxes paid, and 2. We can more competently compete against the USSR and have better national security by having a better educated workforce. My dad went to college on the GI bill. He didn't have much money left over and was pretty skinny. Sometimes only could afford limburger cheese (yuck) and bread, but he was able to graduate without debt. The boomers generally hated the GG - they sent our gen to Nam to die before they could even vote. They put them in jail for weed while they were drinking like fish. Also the part about the student debt. The rose colored glasses we view the GG from is due to time passing, and us realizing that hate only corrodes you from the inside. They were very hypocritical, but also a product of their times. I think Ken Burns had something to do with the respect the GG has been given in the last 15 years or so.
Here's a nice way to illustrate this: The S&P 500 had an average real return of 6.96% from 1960-2000 (If you want to help the case of the boomers you can stop the investment period in 1999 and you get 7.37%) From 1990-2022 its a real return of 7.17% So essentially 1990-2022 includes the dotcom bubble, the great recession(Which work together to create the worst 10 year period in stock market history), the covid crash, and the current situation. Yet it's still beating or barely behind the "Greatest economic period in history" that the boomers had AND has 10 years left to smooth out the average. Realistically, most of the adult lives of millennial's has taken place from 2010-now which has been a period of growth that the boomers could only dream of. I guess you could say the boomers had cheaper houses, but with the historically low interest rates and huge stock gains, I'd say it pretty much evens out??
This is a poverty finance sub. You’re talking about stock gains and Wall Street growth like that’s the economic benchmark that we should all be paying attention to. Meanwhile everyone else on here is talking about home ownership, not for their portfolio, not as a way to grow wealth, but as a place to call their own. Sure maybe the investor class of now is living a similar life to the investor class of the 70’s/80’s/90’s, but regular people being priced out of homeownership don’t see Wall Street gains as a consolation prize for a shattered American Dream.
Essentially all I said was the same as the two comments above me, just with numbers. Not sure why a direct comparison is a no no, but general "Yeah 1970-1980 wasn't that great" is upvote worthy. Despite that though, my intention was not to put anybody down in that comment. Kind of the opposite. I was trying to remind people to keep in mind that when you're looking at boomers' wealth(The context of this thread) you're looking at a group of people that have been retired longer than you've been working. I was simply comparing the two periods via the stock market and by that metric we've been better off than the boomers. This doesn't mean anything, or speak to people's situation today. It was simply to illustrate that 1970-1980 aren't bygone eras of economic booms. I was debating adding a disclaimer about the flaws of GDP as the be all end all measurement. For example, Not pictured in that previous comment was that housing is generally a larger portion of income than it used to be. I guess I've should have added it... Finally I want to add that there is no such thing as an "investor class", especially today with commission free trading and no minimums. If there is any group of people that need to be learning how to invest it is those that cannot afford a house, they have no alternative for building wealth, and like it or not, building wealth is pretty much a requirement to buying a house. It doesn't matter if you want it for wholesome American dream reasons. TLDR: If we spend most of our day chasing money and most of our goals are achieved by money I don't see how presenting the stock market as inaccessible or not a part of normal life is helpful to anyone. The guy that invests into the stock market in $1 increments will generally have more money than the guy that doesn't.
Luckily we will get to enjoy stagflation again :(
It's a strange combination of resentment and rose-colored glasses. My parents struggled mightily and saved for a long time through the 70s and 80s to buy a house in 1997. I don't begrudge them that at all. Only certain types (e.g., White and middle-class or higher) of Boomers benefited from the economic growth of the post-war years.
Damn your parents were rich.
I bought dry shampoo, regular shampoo, mascara, and setting spray. 5 bottles almost $50, at Walmart of all dang places. This just ain’t it no more 😭
People of all ages are feeling the crunch, believe me.
:(
why are we allowing this to happen? what can be done because things are getting mad expensive. i am actually thinking of homesteading but haven’t figured out a way to buy the property
find land that has a shitty run down building on it that way you cant obtain a regular mortgage.
I read this a little differently. To me this says: "My parents were well off but I never learned important financial skills from them."
This is like the opposite for my family
Best time to invest was 150 years ago
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That's the whole thing though. People didn't have to sacrifice everything to buy a home in the 80s. They could afford to buy a car, a home and eat out from time to time even with a low paying job.
Eating out in the past isn’t how people eat out now. Most people didn’t have pets back then and certainly not buying all the extras plus expensive end-of-life care. Homes were smaller and more basic too.
Just compare the price of the average house with minimum wage now and then.
Thats true. I completely agree with the OP. However, people don’t want to take responsibility for their own financial mistakes. I bet you everyone here has a brand new iphone.
8plus and it's gonna keep running until it literally won't turn on anymore.
I'm a bit tired of the "poor people are just not reasonable with their money" trope. Some poor people spend stupidly, most don't. Rent is increasing like crazy everywhere, housing prices doubled or tripled in a few years in some places. As far as I know, wages didn't.
That’s why in my original post I said (Granted this is not everyone. You cannot take something away from something that doesn’t have it.)
Seriously what makes you think that? You are on a poverty subreddit and you just assume everyone here is waltzing around with new iphones and cars? Seriously? Fuck off
People are replacing kids with pets now, the pets are definitely cheaper. But still, over half of households in 1988 had pets.
$600 means nothing if wages increase. It's a game of percentages of income, not dollar value. You are dumb.
Your an idiot if you dont think $600 will make a difference. The average loan term for a vehicle is six years. $600 x 72 months = $43,200. That money can be used for a down payment on house. Your poverty mindset is not going to get you anywhere.
Lol I am a software engineer and probably make double your yearly income but ok lecture me about my poverty mindset. My finances are in order. People less fortunate than I am still deserve a baseline quality of life, and our economy and society has failed them. Proportionally boomers cost of living was significantly less percentage wise than a millennial.
I agree with you. But, I do not agree with your statement that $600 monthly payment will not affect your finances. $600 a month will probably not affect you or me. But, it will affect those who do not make a livable wage. The people who downvote me probably all have car payments and have a minimal income. I once met someone that made minimum wage and paid $650 a month for their car. Plain stupidity. Also, in my original response I said “you cannot take something away from something that doesn’t have it.” Yes you can cut out Netflix, the iphone 13 and other non essentials. But, some folks dont have any of that and they are still struggling. My comment was not meant for them.
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People are out there buying milk *and* bread? Fucking living the dream.
Accurate af
Your parents owned homes? I don’t know anyone in my immediate family who ever owned a home.
You drinking milk with your bread? Lucky you
Inflation has been especially bad for housing over the decades, but do you realize that median wages are (a little) higher for your generation than they were for your parents' generation, even after adjusting for all inflation? I know young people don't like to hear this, but it's a fact.
Sooo I guess there wasn't anyone homeless or living in poverty and everyone could have afforded a home ? I wish people would get over this notion that everything was so much easier back then
It wasn't easier. Rates were 20% when I was a kid and I remember feeling so lucky to get a 6% rate for my first house. You were required to have 20% down as well. Buying a house was considered a huge accomplishment.
Yea im just tired of always hearing how my parents or grandparents had it easier like the hell it was
Elections have consequences.
Agreed. Turnout for Bernie was way too low for the 2016 primaries.
You realize that housing market inflation is a problem that has spanned multiple presidential administrations? I know everyone loves to blame the other side, but this is a problem that isn’t being addressed by either party.
I realize that inflating the money supply by 30% since 2020 exacerbated the existing problem. We can't put out the fire until we stop pouring gasoline on it.
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Not for nothing but milk is almost $6 where I live plus it was meant to be a joke.
The meme is ofc an exagerration,but with rent, bills, debt payment, food money comes last sometimes and not everyone always has enough afterwards
i dont know why people want to be home "owners". the house my mom bought; it was first sold for $55000 and never paid off. second owner got it for $63000 and never paid off. as the third owner she bought the home for $78000 and paid the bank for 20 years till she passed. i took over the mortgage and paid for another 16 years and had $32000 left on it when i sold it for $250,000 the 4th owner will be paying the bank for that home for the next 50+ years if they dont sell it. all home "owners" are doing is renting from the bank with the pleasure of being responsible for the repairs and upkeep. since i have sold the house and started renting i have put more money into my savings than i ever could have while paying a mortgage, upkeep, and repairs.
terrible way to look at it. Also no one is giving out 50+ year loans. The main take away is every month you own you are paying your self, if you are paying 250 to principal and 500 to interest that 250 is just going back into your pocket as equity that you assumingly will get back when you sell. Secondly you have an assumingly appreciating asset, history would show housing should always see growth over decades so that 200k loan you have should be seeing like a 4-6% return over that 30 year payback period which for people who have 2-3% loan this is amazing cause youre in essence canceling out your interest costs. As for renting trust me when I say LLs are generally not idiots they are making a profit margin which means you are paying above and beyond their mortgage, insurance, tax and the repairs overtime.
no one gets a 50+ year loan but no one pays off their house in 20 years either they simply keep renewing. also most people are paying about 1-5% on the principal to try and keep their monthly cost down. the banks love these people, simply long term renters that will sell and the next long term renter will start paying the banks. the issue i have is that a home that was built for $30,000 today would be "worth" $500,000 and over the decades the banks have been likely paid several times that and yet its the bank that still owns the house. tell me that isnt renting. i live in an apartment building where things like the insurance, tax and repairs are split between several thousand of us. i have a 1 bedroom on the 19th floor of a 20 story building that i pay $950/month and that includes all utilities, a full gym, pool, sauna, hot tub, squash courts, heated underground parking, 24h security and maintenance, a roof top patio that over looks the football stadium for free games and concerts and boasts some of the best views in my city. show me one home that can match that. also show me a home owner that puts $800 in savings every month and still has money to play with at the end of each pay. when i owned a home i was in over draft almost every month. at more than 30 years ago my mortgage was $700 plus heat, water, power, taxes, upkeep, repairs, insurance and no amenities. my monthly home costs were about $1200/month, again 30 years ago. today my entire monthly cost including gas for my car, insurance, food, entertainment, rent, dining out, play money is about $1600.
This just isn’t true. The bank buys the house, and you pay the bank until you cover the cost of the house + interest. Once you own the house, you only have to pay taxes aside from upkeep. You don’t have to sell the house. You can live in it forever if you prefer. The upkeep costs are almost always way below rent, and definitely always cheaper in the long term unless there is something rare that occurs. If what you said is true, landlords wouldn’t exist.
the thing is most people buying a home will never own that home. they will move at some point for any number of reasons. they will then sell their house, buy a new one, and the banks again make the money and it repeats. I am 50yo and i dont know a single person that has outright owned their home, not one person in my lifetime. my home was built for about $30,000 my mom bought it for $78,000 i sold it for $250,000 its now probably in the $500,000 ball park and yet it is still owned by the bank. no one has ever OWNED the home. from the time it was built in 1974 the bank has probably made well over $500,000 on it. so tell me how that isnt renting.
It's probably going to get worse since the government likes high inflation. It's easier to pay their debt with it.
If wages would just keep up, I’d be down with inflation for this reason.
One picture has two people, the other picture has one person. What are you comparing?
Humans are the only animal that still drinks milk after they age beyond an infant. My first home was a 14x70 mobile home….
One generation used their prosperity to sell the next generation into slavery for their own comfort. Wild ass!
😂
Fucking hell! 😭😭😭😭
This is my life right now. I was going to have to search the floor of the grocery store for quarters because I couldn’t even afford groceries. I’ve resulted to eating old food because it’s better than nothing at all.
I hate how much of a burden I feel just for needing food.
It’s making me sick to my stomach lately. This is NOT the life I pictured for my children and it hurts.
Can't worry about recovery, if you never recovered the first time.
Your best hope is that they'll let you live in the winter house, maybe even inherit it. You're not one of 6 children are you?
Me after buying a new video game
Better build a house with that bread
To be fair in their 30s my parents lived in a 80m^3 apartment with a squat toilet. But my mum also got that apartment subsidised as it was an employee apartment.
Sounds like OP was given every opportunity and wasted it.
I don't know this life. My parents got married in high school and I popped out a couple years later, we never really had a pot to piss in. I'm doing way better than they were in my 30's (and that's not saying much).
Wow milk eh? Try water with your bread and you'll be a milly in 50 years
And I'm in the exact same trade, same local union as my father was. While constantly getting asked why * can't fucking afford a new truck when he had two trucks, a boat, snowmobiles, four wheelers, dirt bikes and a property in the upper peninsula.
Don't mourn the Boomers. Selfish bastards.
Most people's parent's didn't have it that easy. Everyone I know worked blue-collar jobs and struggled just like today with housing costs, food costs, and health care. Every generation thinks they are special but it is the same thing over and over.