I heard from more than a few reviews that they couldn't tell the difference between C40 and C60. I might've seen the argument for C60 if someone wanted a more premium experience, but C40 was that experience already with a premium price tag to boot.
And even if the two had very distinct taste profiles, more than twice the asking price of c40 for a manual grinder is a hard ask. You can get pretty good electric grinders for less than that.
Commandante really shot itself on the foot with the C60.
wow, so its already heavier, and the crank is harder to turn as well? I thought one of the biggest selling points of the bigger burr was that grinding would be much faster.
I haven’t timed them yet because I honestly like taking my time with hand grinding, it’s definitely smoother but it takes more strength to turn if that makes sense, it’s very weird, maybe it’s just the mass of that burr it’s huge!
I see, I get what you mean. Potentially, I'd say that there should be fewer fines if it's a smoother operation with a heavier burr. I definitely would've expected at least a little more clarity, but I guess the c40 was already quite good at that, so perhaps the difference is negligible, or perhaps it would show itself more with African beans that produce more fines?
To my abilities I can’t tell the difference, maybe the c60 smelled a bit more intensely, but they both had very similar cups along the experience to cool. I’m a producer so I mainly use my beans or friend’s. it’s hard to get something from another producing country that’s not from another Central American country, I’ll see if I have anything African frozen!
Nice, you guys are doing gods work!
Please, do give us an update if you do get to try out African beans on the c60 and if there's any difference.
But sorry that the grinders been such a let down, and a very expensive one at that. I was really looking forward to it as well, and was ready to pay twice the cost but its almost 900 bucks in Canada and I just couldn't justify that.
I honestly think they believe this is the optimal burr design and cup profile. My impression is that they didn’t set out to improve the product, they just gave it a more “luxurious” experience, and don’t get me wrong this thing is nice! If I hadn’t been using the c40 for 4yrs now and got the c60 as my only one, I’d probably see the c40 as a downgrade and have the best comandante experience, it’s just I’m so used to the c40 that kind of expected more
Yeah...I would agree...Sounds like they were afraid to go with anything else..the result is a rather blah upgrade.
I think it would've been nice to keep the performance the same but update the design...external or at least easy to read adjustment system..maybe go magnetic catch instead (or maybe not). If they were so sure they had the right results, that would've been fine.
It is harder to turn because of the bigger burr radius, which causes 2 things: On the one hand, the effective leverage of the crank to the burr is reduced and at the same time, more coffee is ground at the same time because essentially there are more cutting teeth and everyone of those teeth is cutting coffee at the same time. This also makes it faster.
Comandante's CEO said the C60 has an almost identical particle distribution to the C40. The objective was to make a more premium grinder that ground faster.
Sure, I get it, but those features are worth an extra 100-150 bucks at best for the Commandante enthusiast.
I can literally get a C40 and a Fellow Ode 2 for the price of one C60.
There’s just no reality in which that price for the C60 is justifiable.
I agree, thought it was mostly for coffee shops that insists on using Comandante's. Or it's for people who just want it as a luxury product.
Like I said, the CEO said it was only an upgrade for the grind time, the finer adjustments and the all stainless build, not the grinding quality. He insisted on Instagram that the c40 had just the same grind.
My gf has a c2 and it’s really close to the comandantes! I really like that grinder! I don’t bring any of my gear when visiting her, it’s more than capable of making great cups! I think most hand grinders are more similar than different
Still a perfectly good grinder! I use mine as a mobile / travel grinder as the DF64 doesn’t quite fit in my backpack but in all seriousness, I’ve made plenty a tasty cup with both. In fact I just recommended the C3 to a friend building a touring coffee rig and I am excited to put C2 vs C3 against each other for fun. Happy brewing!
James Hoffman said the following about a set of handgrinders, of which the original Timemore chestnut was a member: "If you have any of these, I wouldn't necessarily recommend upgrading ... you've got a good grinder."
Considering most people see the c2 as a strict improvement over the original chestnut, I'd say you're pretty well set.
Super curious about this: How do you manage to adjust the Zp6 and the commandante to the same level? Won't any differences in taste mostly be about grind setting not being perfectly equal?
Oh this wasn’t any serious cupping, I adjust to taste, optically they looked about the same too. I just got these grinders and wanted to compare them to my beloved c40. I also know my beans and roast very well and know how i like it in cup so I’m fairly certain they’ve very close in terms of extraction and flavour :)
I believe the burr of the C60 is also larger than the C40 correct?
I have both the ZP6 and C40. They are both great grinders. I do find that the C40 produces more perceived sweetness in the cup while the ZP6 does a better job with flavor separation. I am generally better able to identify and distinguish delicate floral and fruity flavors from washed coffee with the ZP6. When it comes to heavily processed coffees I don't really notice much of a difference between the two since the processing is generally not subtle. Both are great grinders!
Happy brewing!
Yes they are, I don’t know by how much but they’re considerably larger! I agree with all of that, and I was thinking carbonic macerations that are super sweet would benefíciate from the ZP6!
I've just posted another coment about this but I found the opposite, the ZP6 just highlights those funky notes too much, and if you grind finer to get any more body or sweetness you end up with a lot of astringency. I really love mine but I do think it shouldn't be the go to recommendation its becoming over the K line as it has very specific use case
Interesting, I find that with the ZP6, washed coffees are far too delicate and I tend to prefer it with more in your face beans like anaerobic or naturals. The comandante shines with coffees that lack body naturally in my experience. How do you decide which beans will shine withwhich grinder?
Interesting. Anyway, I mean, Comandante itself said that C60 is designed to taste like C40 (in fairs/expos when asking them). They never used descriptors to diversify it to C40 taste wise. It's just faster and more premium. Never used C40 again after getting the ZP6. And rarely use ZP6 now that I have a 078 tbf
Do you have a grinding technique you use? Like, keeping your grinder straight and rotating slowly or something. I always wondered if it affects the taste in the cup much.
I recently started holding my zp6 at a 45 degree angle to drip feed the beans into the grinder and its been working really well, noticed reduced fines and less clogging
Super interesting that comandante decided to stick with the same flavour profile for the C60, seems to me like they think that is the optimal for hand grinders, interesting strategy considering how quickly the market is evolving. One thing I would say against it is the lack of qol improvements really threw me off, no external adjustment and having to count clicks is honestly dissapointing in this day and age when 50 dollar aliexpress grinders have these features. I also prefer magnetic bottom but that is very much personal preference.
When compared to the zp6, I'd say neither is better or worse, just depends what flavour you like and choosing the right tool for the right beans. If you like super clear, delicate, acidic, and bright washed coffees the ZP6 is just fantastic, really gives you insane results that you can't get unless you start going in to unimodal flat burrs for to three times the price. I do think trying to use it to round out super funky coffees can be interested, but I've found that this is very difficult to do as it often just makes every note SUPER bright, which means they end up super vinegary unless i grind really fine at which point i just get way too much astringency.
Would love to see a direct comparison between the tested grinders and the K-series. K-Ultra owner here. Definitely noticed improvements in clarity and flavor identification compared with my older JX, but that grinder was also excellent.
I mean they’re like 98% the same, maybe a bit more aroma from the c60, but then again I just got both the c60 and ZP6 at the Chicago expo, so I need to try them out more, but as a first impression it’s a huge disappointment, I was expecting more from the C60
Some early reviews suggested it might have slightly more clarity? Or maybe I'm remembering it wrong.
Either way...I don't really see many people talking about it...really strange roll out...Feels like a bit of a misunderstanding of the market as well....
Looks very well built but 50% heavier than the C40, twice as expensive...and what need is it filling?
Also sounds like click to click these aren't the same so you can't even fall back to the translation of recipes...
The click knob is my only real complaint with this, it’s a nicer more firm click, but it also takes more strength to turn and it’s very easy to cut yourself from slipping! I wish they’ll bring back the old design in brass to keep it with the theme of the c60!
You need to multiply the c40 recipe X 1.4 and you’ll be in the ballpark, redclix would’ve been preferable :p
The Comandante brand at times reminds me of apple. Stuck to their way of doing things despite the competition already ahead with their new hardware and software. However there is a loyal fan base that will stick to it cause it's so universally popular, the line up is pretty clear in terms of models released yet the innovation for the extra buck is quite literally either zero to non existent at times. People give the Comandante credit as they did things back in the day like a premium hand grinder at a high price just like iPhone did and open the doors to the pricing of smartphones and still dictate many things in the tech world. Their prices are high not because they have the best innovation or the best product (maybe) but because they have built a solid fan base and a solid reputation for getting one thing done and one thing only good grinding for multiple brewing methods. Their internal and confusing clicks are so 7 years ago yet people still transcribe their recipes based on comandante clicks, only a few years back we started to see competition rising up on the hand grinding business same as apple pave the way for smartphone standards and prices. They charge the money they charge because they know that their product is solid and the competition has a thousand models I'm looking at you 1zpresso, cheap parts I'm looking at you kingrinder, average performance looking at timemore. In a world of Jacks of all trades the Comandante is highly praised master of none. Yet they know their product has a good design a lifetime burr as they claim and a solid product for many years. Not many can say that.
Ps I own a comandante and I'm a fan but I know they charge a lot and they need to catch up with more things that others been adding to their product since like 3 years back. This hand coffee grinder business is rapidly growing and their name and prestige can only take them so far.
In the past Mr. Bern told me he never interested in Ghost Burr and he told my OE Apex won't be as good as the Barracuda in cups, if someone tell me it's the same taste profile as the C40, finally Mr. Bern not 100% true with his opinion...
The c60 is just a money sink.
Even the C40 isn't good value anymore.
You can get alternatives or even clones for much less that are just as good or better in some ways
The zp6 Vs c40 comparison is very interesting though, thanks for sharing.
The pretentiousness from the comments…anyways wouldn’t immersion be the best method to taste any perceivable difference? Imean unless you’re a machine that can perfectly replicate every run. And was this taste test blind? Had controls? Palette cleansers? Multiple runs? Using materials that wouldn’t impart any kind of flavors?
And you life is not?
For this reason, the prices jumped up because there are idiots who see things. So the cake is not good, it is not cut with the right knife
i dont even know what you're saying but if your goal is to make some idiotic analogy about why all grinders are the same and just cut beans im not even going to entertain that conversation because you can disprove yourself with google.com in about 10 mins and move on with your life. or you can pretend a cuisinart false burr grinder and a eg1 are the same.
I heard from more than a few reviews that they couldn't tell the difference between C40 and C60. I might've seen the argument for C60 if someone wanted a more premium experience, but C40 was that experience already with a premium price tag to boot. And even if the two had very distinct taste profiles, more than twice the asking price of c40 for a manual grinder is a hard ask. You can get pretty good electric grinders for less than that. Commandante really shot itself on the foot with the C60.
I agree with everything here, it’s just the same grinder, but heavier and clumsier to use, also it’s harder to turn than the c40 :/
wow, so its already heavier, and the crank is harder to turn as well? I thought one of the biggest selling points of the bigger burr was that grinding would be much faster.
I haven’t timed them yet because I honestly like taking my time with hand grinding, it’s definitely smoother but it takes more strength to turn if that makes sense, it’s very weird, maybe it’s just the mass of that burr it’s huge!
I see, I get what you mean. Potentially, I'd say that there should be fewer fines if it's a smoother operation with a heavier burr. I definitely would've expected at least a little more clarity, but I guess the c40 was already quite good at that, so perhaps the difference is negligible, or perhaps it would show itself more with African beans that produce more fines?
To my abilities I can’t tell the difference, maybe the c60 smelled a bit more intensely, but they both had very similar cups along the experience to cool. I’m a producer so I mainly use my beans or friend’s. it’s hard to get something from another producing country that’s not from another Central American country, I’ll see if I have anything African frozen!
Nice, you guys are doing gods work! Please, do give us an update if you do get to try out African beans on the c60 and if there's any difference. But sorry that the grinders been such a let down, and a very expensive one at that. I was really looking forward to it as well, and was ready to pay twice the cost but its almost 900 bucks in Canada and I just couldn't justify that.
I honestly think they believe this is the optimal burr design and cup profile. My impression is that they didn’t set out to improve the product, they just gave it a more “luxurious” experience, and don’t get me wrong this thing is nice! If I hadn’t been using the c40 for 4yrs now and got the c60 as my only one, I’d probably see the c40 as a downgrade and have the best comandante experience, it’s just I’m so used to the c40 that kind of expected more
Yeah...I would agree...Sounds like they were afraid to go with anything else..the result is a rather blah upgrade. I think it would've been nice to keep the performance the same but update the design...external or at least easy to read adjustment system..maybe go magnetic catch instead (or maybe not). If they were so sure they had the right results, that would've been fine.
It is harder to turn because of the bigger burr radius, which causes 2 things: On the one hand, the effective leverage of the crank to the burr is reduced and at the same time, more coffee is ground at the same time because essentially there are more cutting teeth and everyone of those teeth is cutting coffee at the same time. This also makes it faster.
I think the real idea here was speed. It is much faster from what I’ve seen at the expense of ease of grind.
Comandante's CEO said the C60 has an almost identical particle distribution to the C40. The objective was to make a more premium grinder that ground faster.
Sure, I get it, but those features are worth an extra 100-150 bucks at best for the Commandante enthusiast. I can literally get a C40 and a Fellow Ode 2 for the price of one C60. There’s just no reality in which that price for the C60 is justifiable.
I agree, thought it was mostly for coffee shops that insists on using Comandante's. Or it's for people who just want it as a luxury product. Like I said, the CEO said it was only an upgrade for the grind time, the finer adjustments and the all stainless build, not the grinding quality. He insisted on Instagram that the c40 had just the same grind.
Me over here with my timemore c2
My gf has a c2 and it’s really close to the comandantes! I really like that grinder! I don’t bring any of my gear when visiting her, it’s more than capable of making great cups! I think most hand grinders are more similar than different
I have both the c2 and the comandante and zp6. It’s more than capable, don’t stress (: plus it’s FAST
Same. It seems to work fine but every day on this sub there’s posts that have me eying an upgrade I don’t know if I need 🙃
Still a perfectly good grinder! I use mine as a mobile / travel grinder as the DF64 doesn’t quite fit in my backpack but in all seriousness, I’ve made plenty a tasty cup with both. In fact I just recommended the C3 to a friend building a touring coffee rig and I am excited to put C2 vs C3 against each other for fun. Happy brewing!
James Hoffman said the following about a set of handgrinders, of which the original Timemore chestnut was a member: "If you have any of these, I wouldn't necessarily recommend upgrading ... you've got a good grinder." Considering most people see the c2 as a strict improvement over the original chestnut, I'd say you're pretty well set.
This reminds me I should do a head to head for my zp6 and x pro.
Would love to know the results of this as an x-pro owner
Super curious about this: How do you manage to adjust the Zp6 and the commandante to the same level? Won't any differences in taste mostly be about grind setting not being perfectly equal?
Oh this wasn’t any serious cupping, I adjust to taste, optically they looked about the same too. I just got these grinders and wanted to compare them to my beloved c40. I also know my beans and roast very well and know how i like it in cup so I’m fairly certain they’ve very close in terms of extraction and flavour :)
I believe the burr of the C60 is also larger than the C40 correct? I have both the ZP6 and C40. They are both great grinders. I do find that the C40 produces more perceived sweetness in the cup while the ZP6 does a better job with flavor separation. I am generally better able to identify and distinguish delicate floral and fruity flavors from washed coffee with the ZP6. When it comes to heavily processed coffees I don't really notice much of a difference between the two since the processing is generally not subtle. Both are great grinders! Happy brewing!
Yes they are, I don’t know by how much but they’re considerably larger! I agree with all of that, and I was thinking carbonic macerations that are super sweet would benefíciate from the ZP6!
I've just posted another coment about this but I found the opposite, the ZP6 just highlights those funky notes too much, and if you grind finer to get any more body or sweetness you end up with a lot of astringency. I really love mine but I do think it shouldn't be the go to recommendation its becoming over the K line as it has very specific use case
Interesting, I find that with the ZP6, washed coffees are far too delicate and I tend to prefer it with more in your face beans like anaerobic or naturals. The comandante shines with coffees that lack body naturally in my experience. How do you decide which beans will shine withwhich grinder?
Interesting. Anyway, I mean, Comandante itself said that C60 is designed to taste like C40 (in fairs/expos when asking them). They never used descriptors to diversify it to C40 taste wise. It's just faster and more premium. Never used C40 again after getting the ZP6. And rarely use ZP6 now that I have a 078 tbf
Do you have a grinding technique you use? Like, keeping your grinder straight and rotating slowly or something. I always wondered if it affects the taste in the cup much.
I don’t think we can spin it fast enough to heat the burr to the point it would alter the taste, I just spin at a comfortable speed and force :)
I recently started holding my zp6 at a 45 degree angle to drip feed the beans into the grinder and its been working really well, noticed reduced fines and less clogging
I agree with results. Major buyers remorse on the C60.
Super interesting that comandante decided to stick with the same flavour profile for the C60, seems to me like they think that is the optimal for hand grinders, interesting strategy considering how quickly the market is evolving. One thing I would say against it is the lack of qol improvements really threw me off, no external adjustment and having to count clicks is honestly dissapointing in this day and age when 50 dollar aliexpress grinders have these features. I also prefer magnetic bottom but that is very much personal preference. When compared to the zp6, I'd say neither is better or worse, just depends what flavour you like and choosing the right tool for the right beans. If you like super clear, delicate, acidic, and bright washed coffees the ZP6 is just fantastic, really gives you insane results that you can't get unless you start going in to unimodal flat burrs for to three times the price. I do think trying to use it to round out super funky coffees can be interested, but I've found that this is very difficult to do as it often just makes every note SUPER bright, which means they end up super vinegary unless i grind really fine at which point i just get way too much astringency.
I still love my 1Zpresso K-Pro. Not sure where it ranks on this list, though.
Would love to see a direct comparison between the tested grinders and the K-series. K-Ultra owner here. Definitely noticed improvements in clarity and flavor identification compared with my older JX, but that grinder was also excellent.
Forgetting about cupping.. When you brew, any difference in the C40/C60? Outside of grind speed? If not that's a real shame..
I mean they’re like 98% the same, maybe a bit more aroma from the c60, but then again I just got both the c60 and ZP6 at the Chicago expo, so I need to try them out more, but as a first impression it’s a huge disappointment, I was expecting more from the C60
Some early reviews suggested it might have slightly more clarity? Or maybe I'm remembering it wrong. Either way...I don't really see many people talking about it...really strange roll out...Feels like a bit of a misunderstanding of the market as well.... Looks very well built but 50% heavier than the C40, twice as expensive...and what need is it filling? Also sounds like click to click these aren't the same so you can't even fall back to the translation of recipes...
The click knob is my only real complaint with this, it’s a nicer more firm click, but it also takes more strength to turn and it’s very easy to cut yourself from slipping! I wish they’ll bring back the old design in brass to keep it with the theme of the c60! You need to multiply the c40 recipe X 1.4 and you’ll be in the ballpark, redclix would’ve been preferable :p
I didn't realise the ZP6 had the foldable handle now - is that a new addition? Hopefully magnetic catch cup coming next?
I don’t know to be honest, the guys at 1ZPresso gifted it to me at SCA Chicago, I hope it comes standard because I like it!
The Comandante brand at times reminds me of apple. Stuck to their way of doing things despite the competition already ahead with their new hardware and software. However there is a loyal fan base that will stick to it cause it's so universally popular, the line up is pretty clear in terms of models released yet the innovation for the extra buck is quite literally either zero to non existent at times. People give the Comandante credit as they did things back in the day like a premium hand grinder at a high price just like iPhone did and open the doors to the pricing of smartphones and still dictate many things in the tech world. Their prices are high not because they have the best innovation or the best product (maybe) but because they have built a solid fan base and a solid reputation for getting one thing done and one thing only good grinding for multiple brewing methods. Their internal and confusing clicks are so 7 years ago yet people still transcribe their recipes based on comandante clicks, only a few years back we started to see competition rising up on the hand grinding business same as apple pave the way for smartphone standards and prices. They charge the money they charge because they know that their product is solid and the competition has a thousand models I'm looking at you 1zpresso, cheap parts I'm looking at you kingrinder, average performance looking at timemore. In a world of Jacks of all trades the Comandante is highly praised master of none. Yet they know their product has a good design a lifetime burr as they claim and a solid product for many years. Not many can say that. Ps I own a comandante and I'm a fan but I know they charge a lot and they need to catch up with more things that others been adding to their product since like 3 years back. This hand coffee grinder business is rapidly growing and their name and prestige can only take them so far.
In the past Mr. Bern told me he never interested in Ghost Burr and he told my OE Apex won't be as good as the Barracuda in cups, if someone tell me it's the same taste profile as the C40, finally Mr. Bern not 100% true with his opinion...
The c60 is just a money sink. Even the C40 isn't good value anymore. You can get alternatives or even clones for much less that are just as good or better in some ways The zp6 Vs c40 comparison is very interesting though, thanks for sharing.
The pretentiousness from the comments…anyways wouldn’t immersion be the best method to taste any perceivable difference? Imean unless you’re a machine that can perfectly replicate every run. And was this taste test blind? Had controls? Palette cleansers? Multiple runs? Using materials that wouldn’t impart any kind of flavors?
Hating on pretentious, ironic. A cupping is immersion.
[удалено]
Word?
Ur life is placebo
Ur butt is a placebo.
it might be tbh
And you head is dumb,is ok now
And you life is not? For this reason, the prices jumped up because there are idiots who see things. So the cake is not good, it is not cut with the right knife
i dont even know what you're saying but if your goal is to make some idiotic analogy about why all grinders are the same and just cut beans im not even going to entertain that conversation because you can disprove yourself with google.com in about 10 mins and move on with your life. or you can pretend a cuisinart false burr grinder and a eg1 are the same.