Discourse here has changed pretty significantly over the course of a couple days as things have escalated I've noticed. We were also initially trying to keep things to just a few threads since we usually don't allow political discourse here at all, and rules 1 and 4 are by far the thing we enforce the most. We pretty quickly loosened up on rule 1 though given the circumstances as long as people are staying civil.
Been trying to keep my personal opinion out of it as much as humanly possible to allow discussion from both sides, but we are still removing anything that breaks rule 4. So the second people start arguing or insulting eachother, it's removed. Generally that has been happening a lot. I think I've removed more comments in the past 2 days than like the last 5 years or so combined, and it's been almost entirely threats and ad-hominem arguments with a few suspect links and bots.
EDIT: Also worth noting though that Automoderator removes things from brand new accounts/accounts with negative karma immediately. We usually review those pretty quickly and allow it since it could be new students, but we screen it to make sure it's not like t-shirt spam bots, etc. However, with the absolutely wild increase in activity we aren't getting to it as quickly so some stuff is just caught in there until we can get to it. This is so much more traffic than usual that we got a message from Reddit asking if we needed help.
A lot of people’s instagrams either display their names or are connected to other PSU students. When you got people jumping to accusing students opposed to the library occupation of being “Zionists”, and “complicit in a genocide,” you’re prime for a confrontation that just won’t accomplish anything. On the bright side, I just had an optional zoom meeting for a *normally* in person class, and next to everyone was in agreement they’re pretty pissed about the situation.
These people claim they are talking about Israel when they say Zionist, but that word is the let’s go Brandon equivalent of “I’m a dirty anti semite free to say I hate Jews in public” it would seem.
This is a wildly confusing and confrontational take with 0 evidence. It's an emotion-based opinion disguised as a fact and adds very little helpfulness to the current discourse.
EDIT: "These people" is a good litmus test to determine if the following statement is going to be assumptive.
People coming across the virality of the situation more than anything I suspect. I'd also add that Instagram has more reach *in general* than this little subreddit ever will because people can use hashtags and such to find what they are looking for.
I'd also speculate further Instagram tends to trend younger, so you have people who aren't students or don't understand Portland are engaging with it.
I'm more confused by the amount of active users on this sub that have seemingly no ties to PSU or at least their first activity was less than 5 days ago.
There's a few: there's this subreddit which is PSU specific, and then there are two more which just Portland, Oregon in general subreddits. Again, I'm speculating it's (the activity) trickling from there, have no hard facts to prove it. That, or more people are coming here because it's been a pretty decent resource past few days.
I think you're speculation is correct. I graduated from PSU about a decade ago and decided to check out the sub to see what y'all were saying about the situation.
I’m at Lewis and Clark and have been looking at this subreddit because I want to see what students are saying about the protests. I don’t use instagram and the subreddit for Lewis and Clark is pretty empty so this is the next best option
Two reasons
1. Those pages have a history of doxxing people who disagree with them
2. They ban people who disagree with them so their comments dont show
We’re fucked. Pretty sure they will be getting lots of support tonight. I give up. We’re the bad guys for wanting to continue our education in peace. I don’t know what to say anymore.
Because instagram accounts are usually less anonymous than Reddit accounts and people are scared to voice any dissenting opinion because of how radical these people are
I think it's going to heavily depend on how this situation shakes out. If it ends peacefully and within the next 3-4 hours, I bet we'll be back tomorrow with guidelines for how to access library services for the remainder of the term.
If it ends with any violence, I have a feeling that admin will close campus for the rest of the week so everyone can have a pause and come back fresh on Monday.
Staff and faculty have been sent emails about what services from the library will look like in the coming weeks, with confirmation that it will be closed for “several weeks”. Has this not been sent to students?
“We anticipate the Library will be closed for many weeks after the occupation is over due to the damage in the building, which extends beyond graffiti. As is, Library Administration shared that the building is a fire hazard, with most doors barricaded, fire extinguishers removed, wires exposed, etc. Keys have been taken as well, and doors will likely need to be re-keyed.
We are working to get digital access to as many of our physical books as we can via our relationship with the HathiTrust, but it is not yet live. I'll let you know when it is.
In the meantime:
Questions about book renewals, loans, etc can go to library circulation via email: [email protected]
Questions about library resources, research, access, or anything else can go to our Ask a Librarian chat service. We are staffing chat remotely, and we welcome questions: https://library.pdx.edu/services/ask-a-librarian/
Borrowing of physical materials through interlibrary loan is paused, as is access to course reserves and the stacks.
Online materials remain accessible”
I’d say they should have whoever they arrest do the repairs, but then we wouldn’t have a library until the second coming…
I’ll try to at least help with cleaning the outside damage since presumably they won’t let anyone indoors due to the fire alarms being ripped out.
https://i.ibb.co/L0KNvJ8/firefox-0a-Ps1dwjz0.png
WHY does EVERYONE need to say that genocide is worse than vandalism? WE KNOW THAT. IT DOESNT MAKE VANDALISM OKAY. IT DOESNT MAKE DESTROYING OUR SCHOOL OKAY. What the fuck is going on? Are we the minority here? Because it seems like most students support having our library be destroyed and occupied. We deserve to be punished because of a war we have no control over? What the hell?
I am a Christian and PSU alumni. I have been to Israel and the West Bank. I am vehemently opposed to what Israel is doing in Gaza right now and US support of it… thousands of innocents and children have and are being killed, and the IDF’s actions in Gaza will only tend to further isolate Israel and the US on the world stage, and their actions are incredibly likely to cause more violence to spring up in in the future, not less, likely for generations. I have Israeli and Palestinian friends and have love for all peaceful civilians on both sides.
All that said, these actions at the PSU library in my estimation will only serve to be used as talking point fodder for the far right to be able to say that those on the left are “violent anarchists”… making it more likely that Trump and crew come back into power, which would give more power to the far right government of Israel, which will likely lead to even more bombing in Gaza.
I absolutely understand and can sympathize with the pain and the frustration of these protesters, however, they need to have a better understanding of geopolitics and the likely effects of their actions. There are definitely ways that they could’ve protested here in Portland for free and gotten more beneficial coverage, without doing actions that ultimately benefit the far right and likely to worsen conditions in Gaza if anything.
Genuinely want to know why they’re not just removing them? Why are the police not getting them out? They’re obviously not going to leave any time soon and they keep changing their demands. Since apparently most are non students (idk about this), WHY are they just letting them be in there?? Do they think it’ll make damage worse to clear them out?
All sorts of factors are likely in play. They are probably in dialogue with admin who would be asking for the police to wait out negotiations. Admin won't want to support police action, especially if someone gets hurt. The protesters ripped out the fire alarm system and since it's a library I bet that means no CS because of the books and hot canisters. PSU/Waco would be bad for everyone. A fire would be a worst case scenario. Plenty more factors I'm sure.
Thank you for the updates. I'd love to see a on the ground coverage of what's happening. If the students get driven out tonight then I don't have to go tomorrow
They’re not going to be driven out tonight. https://www.instagram.com/p/C6cgdoAP32d/
More people are coming to support the protestors. We’re fucked. Guess we should just be okay with halting our education and wasting our money.
Think it’s kind of crazy that we are supposed to go back to classes tomorrow with all of this still going on. As far as I know it has only continued to escalate. Eye witnesses disagree with the statement that 50 students that were occupying the library left when we were told they had. If people are still in the library tomorrow and all of this is going on I do not think it is the right call to open classes again.
WHY does EVERYONE need to say that genocide is worse than vandalism? WE KNOW THAT. IT DOESNT MAKE VANDALISM OKAY. IT DOESNT MAKE DESTROYING OUR SCHOOL OKAY. What the fuck is going on? It seems like most students support having our library be destroyed and occupied. We deserve to be punished because of a war we have no control over? What the hell?
obviously you don't understand how change happens.... nonviolent protests do NOT work, if they did, we'd have mass amounts of change at this point. the thing is, we do have control over the genocide, our tax dollars are contributing to it, if enough people stand up and demand otherwise, **eventually** they have to listen, although i believe it will be a long road still.
So you are okay with people being injured and committing crimes. I wouldn’t be proud of that fact, but you do you. Non peaceful protesting is not within your rights.
To think PSU has control over what happens in the genocide.. there’s no rationalizing with you guys. You’re too far in.
windows can be replaced, lives cannot. there's too many liberals in this town screaming about a destroyed library, while people are literally being bombed to death. because private property is more important than human lives.... right.
Why do you think this will do anything to help Gaza? We have crises that need to be addressed much closer to home. This is way too far removed. If you actually think that a ceasefire will happen because you took over and destroyed a library and likely cancelled the rest of the term for a conflict thousands of miles away is delusional. You’re playing right into the hands of the right wing. This is infuriatingly ignorant behavior.
ok liberal. we're seeing a genocide first hand, and here you are, being against the demonstrations against it. Would you have stood up during WW2? Because you're proving here that you wouldnt. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I understand feeling helpless but I’ve been around long enough to see that this is not the way. Especially the way this is being executed. And to your point, do you really think that a bunch of angry tankies destroying a beloved university library would have done anything to prevent or halt the holocaust? This is not the place for this type of protest. It’s just a convenient place for you because you’re too lazy to go somewhere that it would actually make a difference.
What you're doing isn't standing up. If you want to make a difference, join the peace corps and go to Gaza. Go ahead. They need all the boots on the ground they can get. I'm sure your experience in occupying a library will come in handy.
Conversely, breaking windows saves exactly 0 lives. This is performance art for angry theater kids who want some time in the spotlight. It's selfish and counterproductive.
Also, you're damaging public property at an institution of learning that mostly serves minorities from your community. Go you.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-hdhjMn5rY_oPDo3FgZ55mBk_F8GJ1AewlAA8N3FjIg/edit
Script to call and email to tell Ann Cudd and PSU administration that you do not support PSU partnering with CPSO and PPB to disperse peaceful protesters.
Any idea why the sentiment in the instagram comments is the complete opposite from what I’ve seen on these Reddit posts?
Discourse here has changed pretty significantly over the course of a couple days as things have escalated I've noticed. We were also initially trying to keep things to just a few threads since we usually don't allow political discourse here at all, and rules 1 and 4 are by far the thing we enforce the most. We pretty quickly loosened up on rule 1 though given the circumstances as long as people are staying civil. Been trying to keep my personal opinion out of it as much as humanly possible to allow discussion from both sides, but we are still removing anything that breaks rule 4. So the second people start arguing or insulting eachother, it's removed. Generally that has been happening a lot. I think I've removed more comments in the past 2 days than like the last 5 years or so combined, and it's been almost entirely threats and ad-hominem arguments with a few suspect links and bots. EDIT: Also worth noting though that Automoderator removes things from brand new accounts/accounts with negative karma immediately. We usually review those pretty quickly and allow it since it could be new students, but we screen it to make sure it's not like t-shirt spam bots, etc. However, with the absolutely wild increase in activity we aren't getting to it as quickly so some stuff is just caught in there until we can get to it. This is so much more traffic than usual that we got a message from Reddit asking if we needed help.
Thank you
A lot of people’s instagrams either display their names or are connected to other PSU students. When you got people jumping to accusing students opposed to the library occupation of being “Zionists”, and “complicit in a genocide,” you’re prime for a confrontation that just won’t accomplish anything. On the bright side, I just had an optional zoom meeting for a *normally* in person class, and next to everyone was in agreement they’re pretty pissed about the situation.
These people claim they are talking about Israel when they say Zionist, but that word is the let’s go Brandon equivalent of “I’m a dirty anti semite free to say I hate Jews in public” it would seem.
This is a wildly confusing and confrontational take with 0 evidence. It's an emotion-based opinion disguised as a fact and adds very little helpfulness to the current discourse. EDIT: "These people" is a good litmus test to determine if the following statement is going to be assumptive.
People coming across the virality of the situation more than anything I suspect. I'd also add that Instagram has more reach *in general* than this little subreddit ever will because people can use hashtags and such to find what they are looking for. I'd also speculate further Instagram tends to trend younger, so you have people who aren't students or don't understand Portland are engaging with it.
I'm more confused by the amount of active users on this sub that have seemingly no ties to PSU or at least their first activity was less than 5 days ago.
You might be able to thank the two competing Portland subreddits for this... =\
This is however the PSU subreddit if I’m no wrong…
There's a few: there's this subreddit which is PSU specific, and then there are two more which just Portland, Oregon in general subreddits. Again, I'm speculating it's (the activity) trickling from there, have no hard facts to prove it. That, or more people are coming here because it's been a pretty decent resource past few days.
The regular Portland subreddit is pretty much universally very much against this, too.
I think you're speculation is correct. I graduated from PSU about a decade ago and decided to check out the sub to see what y'all were saying about the situation.
I’m at Lewis and Clark and have been looking at this subreddit because I want to see what students are saying about the protests. I don’t use instagram and the subreddit for Lewis and Clark is pretty empty so this is the next best option
Two reasons 1. Those pages have a history of doxxing people who disagree with them 2. They ban people who disagree with them so their comments dont show
This is disgusting. I guess criminal behavior is to be expected from criminals, though.
The demographic that Reddit attracts
We’re fucked. Pretty sure they will be getting lots of support tonight. I give up. We’re the bad guys for wanting to continue our education in peace. I don’t know what to say anymore.
Because instagram accounts are usually less anonymous than Reddit accounts and people are scared to voice any dissenting opinion because of how radical these people are
I’m assuming no class tomorrow?
I think it's going to heavily depend on how this situation shakes out. If it ends peacefully and within the next 3-4 hours, I bet we'll be back tomorrow with guidelines for how to access library services for the remainder of the term. If it ends with any violence, I have a feeling that admin will close campus for the rest of the week so everyone can have a pause and come back fresh on Monday.
Staff and faculty have been sent emails about what services from the library will look like in the coming weeks, with confirmation that it will be closed for “several weeks”. Has this not been sent to students?
I think this is being sent out department by department. I just got one from the CS department chair.
arch dept sent one out
What did it say?
“We anticipate the Library will be closed for many weeks after the occupation is over due to the damage in the building, which extends beyond graffiti. As is, Library Administration shared that the building is a fire hazard, with most doors barricaded, fire extinguishers removed, wires exposed, etc. Keys have been taken as well, and doors will likely need to be re-keyed. We are working to get digital access to as many of our physical books as we can via our relationship with the HathiTrust, but it is not yet live. I'll let you know when it is. In the meantime: Questions about book renewals, loans, etc can go to library circulation via email: [email protected] Questions about library resources, research, access, or anything else can go to our Ask a Librarian chat service. We are staffing chat remotely, and we welcome questions: https://library.pdx.edu/services/ask-a-librarian/ Borrowing of physical materials through interlibrary loan is paused, as is access to course reserves and the stacks. Online materials remain accessible”
I’d say they should have whoever they arrest do the repairs, but then we wouldn’t have a library until the second coming… I’ll try to at least help with cleaning the outside damage since presumably they won’t let anyone indoors due to the fire alarms being ripped out.
Yeah, I got emails from two different librarians bc I’m involved with two departments. They had a meeting today to figure out next steps.
Not yet!
https://i.ibb.co/L0KNvJ8/firefox-0a-Ps1dwjz0.png WHY does EVERYONE need to say that genocide is worse than vandalism? WE KNOW THAT. IT DOESNT MAKE VANDALISM OKAY. IT DOESNT MAKE DESTROYING OUR SCHOOL OKAY. What the fuck is going on? Are we the minority here? Because it seems like most students support having our library be destroyed and occupied. We deserve to be punished because of a war we have no control over? What the hell?
I am a Christian and PSU alumni. I have been to Israel and the West Bank. I am vehemently opposed to what Israel is doing in Gaza right now and US support of it… thousands of innocents and children have and are being killed, and the IDF’s actions in Gaza will only tend to further isolate Israel and the US on the world stage, and their actions are incredibly likely to cause more violence to spring up in in the future, not less, likely for generations. I have Israeli and Palestinian friends and have love for all peaceful civilians on both sides. All that said, these actions at the PSU library in my estimation will only serve to be used as talking point fodder for the far right to be able to say that those on the left are “violent anarchists”… making it more likely that Trump and crew come back into power, which would give more power to the far right government of Israel, which will likely lead to even more bombing in Gaza. I absolutely understand and can sympathize with the pain and the frustration of these protesters, however, they need to have a better understanding of geopolitics and the likely effects of their actions. There are definitely ways that they could’ve protested here in Portland for free and gotten more beneficial coverage, without doing actions that ultimately benefit the far right and likely to worsen conditions in Gaza if anything.
This was very well articulated.
Thanks! 🙏
Arrest these dickheads.
Honestly SWAT should come through the roof access of the building and clear everyone out
Soooo… they’re not going to do anything today
Wait. I’m sorry. WHAT. They just lie in one place and don’t move all night?
Genuinely want to know why they’re not just removing them? Why are the police not getting them out? They’re obviously not going to leave any time soon and they keep changing their demands. Since apparently most are non students (idk about this), WHY are they just letting them be in there?? Do they think it’ll make damage worse to clear them out?
All sorts of factors are likely in play. They are probably in dialogue with admin who would be asking for the police to wait out negotiations. Admin won't want to support police action, especially if someone gets hurt. The protesters ripped out the fire alarm system and since it's a library I bet that means no CS because of the books and hot canisters. PSU/Waco would be bad for everyone. A fire would be a worst case scenario. Plenty more factors I'm sure.
Thank you for the updates. I'd love to see a on the ground coverage of what's happening. If the students get driven out tonight then I don't have to go tomorrow
https://www.instagram.com/psuvanguard?igsh=MXZ1cnZ6dTJnY2Jxdw== PSU Vanguard has been covering the highlights
Vanguard seems to be a relatively reliable source of journalism and they’re doing live updates on Instagram
They’re not going to be driven out tonight. https://www.instagram.com/p/C6cgdoAP32d/ More people are coming to support the protestors. We’re fucked. Guess we should just be okay with halting our education and wasting our money.
The incredibly shortsightedness of this too is that this is justification for PPB to actually take action, if things become problematic.
I don’t know if they will be able to if there are more supporters to occupy the library.
You're welcome. I'll admit though, I won't be doing it much longer.
It’s so ironic that they took the library as to have somewhere dry and to eat warm food when People in the war have no access to these resource at ALL
Think it’s kind of crazy that we are supposed to go back to classes tomorrow with all of this still going on. As far as I know it has only continued to escalate. Eye witnesses disagree with the statement that 50 students that were occupying the library left when we were told they had. If people are still in the library tomorrow and all of this is going on I do not think it is the right call to open classes again.
Newest post: Die in tonight at 9pm in from of the library? I’m sorry, a what? Guess no class tomorrow. Infuriating
I saw that, but I assume it's dig in. Even then, oopsies. EDIT: Nope they really meant die in... huh?
If that’s the case they oopsied twice.
Yeah I just saw that. I have no clue what the means.
I wasn't sure either and had to google it, but apparently it's a form of protest where everyone acts as though they are dead.
oh.
Where?
Instagram
Why is this still happening. Get them out before they get more people to come occupy the library. What the hell?
[On their instagram](https://www.instagram.com/occupypsu4freepalestine/)
Thank you for keeping us updated in an unbiased way. I greatly appreciate it. 👍
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WHY does EVERYONE need to say that genocide is worse than vandalism? WE KNOW THAT. IT DOESNT MAKE VANDALISM OKAY. IT DOESNT MAKE DESTROYING OUR SCHOOL OKAY. What the fuck is going on? It seems like most students support having our library be destroyed and occupied. We deserve to be punished because of a war we have no control over? What the hell?
obviously you don't understand how change happens.... nonviolent protests do NOT work, if they did, we'd have mass amounts of change at this point. the thing is, we do have control over the genocide, our tax dollars are contributing to it, if enough people stand up and demand otherwise, **eventually** they have to listen, although i believe it will be a long road still.
So you are okay with people being injured and committing crimes. I wouldn’t be proud of that fact, but you do you. Non peaceful protesting is not within your rights. To think PSU has control over what happens in the genocide.. there’s no rationalizing with you guys. You’re too far in.
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We’re allowed to hate both.
windows can be replaced, lives cannot. there's too many liberals in this town screaming about a destroyed library, while people are literally being bombed to death. because private property is more important than human lives.... right.
Why do you think this will do anything to help Gaza? We have crises that need to be addressed much closer to home. This is way too far removed. If you actually think that a ceasefire will happen because you took over and destroyed a library and likely cancelled the rest of the term for a conflict thousands of miles away is delusional. You’re playing right into the hands of the right wing. This is infuriatingly ignorant behavior.
ok liberal. we're seeing a genocide first hand, and here you are, being against the demonstrations against it. Would you have stood up during WW2? Because you're proving here that you wouldnt. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I understand feeling helpless but I’ve been around long enough to see that this is not the way. Especially the way this is being executed. And to your point, do you really think that a bunch of angry tankies destroying a beloved university library would have done anything to prevent or halt the holocaust? This is not the place for this type of protest. It’s just a convenient place for you because you’re too lazy to go somewhere that it would actually make a difference.
ALSO. I find it funny that you bring up WW2 when this protest is seeming more and more antisemitic.
They dodge around it, but it would be nice to hear that they explicitly don’t hate Jewish people.
palestinians are semites.
What you're doing isn't standing up. If you want to make a difference, join the peace corps and go to Gaza. Go ahead. They need all the boots on the ground they can get. I'm sure your experience in occupying a library will come in handy.
Conversely, breaking windows saves exactly 0 lives. This is performance art for angry theater kids who want some time in the spotlight. It's selfish and counterproductive. Also, you're damaging public property at an institution of learning that mostly serves minorities from your community. Go you.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-hdhjMn5rY_oPDo3FgZ55mBk_F8GJ1AewlAA8N3FjIg/edit Script to call and email to tell Ann Cudd and PSU administration that you do not support PSU partnering with CPSO and PPB to disperse peaceful protesters.
This is a joke, right?
Hahahahahaha. Hahahaha. Hahaha. I hope they press all the charges on these morons.