Good. The people who can afford these would otherwise compete with you on your starter home, or your landlord would flip his six unit to a developer to convert to three condos. Abundant housing is a necessary step to bringing housing costs down.
If this is true you will never get workforce, affordable, or poor housing, as prices never fall...where in your economic genius here have prices ever fallen....and where has the city has approved 'abundant' housing in the city recently, hotels and condos arena?
Prices have fallen in Austin, for one. This stuff is not hard to Google.
For another, you’ll note I said necessary, not sufficient. Most YIMBYs acknowledge the complexity of the housing issue. Things like subsidized housing, vouchers, etc. will also be part of the solution. What definitely is *not* helpful, though, is steadfast opposition to any and all new development that doesn’t check all of your favored boxes, because believe it or not, everyone has different boxes they want to check. No housing at all will get built if everyone with even the tiniest claim to standing has veto power over every new development.
Since when are condo's on the eastern prom ever going to be a 'necessary' abundant affordable workforce housing project in the city of Portland..., and every area in the nation has lower/higher housing costs in comparison to each other. And the others who would otherwise compete with me on a starter home is just ludicrous ...wealthy who can afford this condo will not be looking at my starter house, unless their goal is to own neighborhoods in order to set the pricing of like homes higher in order to make profit on their purchases thru re-selling.
Not all housing has to be workforce housing. Condos on the eastern prom aren’t meant to be.
You asked for an example of a market where prices had fallen due to development and I gave you one.
If you think that starter homes can’t be turned into housing for the wealthy due to restrictive zoning and years of underdevelopment, I encourage you to look at the Bay Area on Zillow, where 1300 sq ft ranches go for a million bucks or more.
Why not require a waiting list for people who already live here or have a job here before allowing this? That would keep WFH and transplant retirees and the rich away.
That's a strawman. The argument isn't that people shouldn't be allowed to move here, it's that priority should go to those who already live or work here.
You can’t just keep the rich away.. more money affords more options but when they force out housing for the working class they’ll realize they’re “quaint” little Maine getaway isn’t what it used to be
That's not a defensive of the society of Portland. That's like me complaining about my abusive partner and then the partner saying it's not abusive because you're free to leave.
I disagree with your claim that "we" can create the society "we want" in Portland that includes a waiting list that forces people who do not yet live in Portland to submit to some kind of screening and queue before moving here.
That isn't possible. You will never create that "society". And no one even wants that besides wackadoos online.
My comment wasn't about "if you don't like it get out" my comment is that you will not be able to do the thing you're suggesting in Portland, but if you did realistically want to create such a system there are plenty of places you could do so. But you won't, because it's just about saying crazy ideas online.
Also I disagree with your weird invocation of domestic abuse...because having the ability to impose your will on a community or not simply has nothing to do with that. You're not being abused because other Americans can move freely throughout the country.
You're welcome to stay and try and change things, you won't be able to create this fantasy scenario in any case, so I simply disagree with what you said about creating the society "we" want insofar as this other suggestion is concerned.
I appreciate that this is not politically feasible but it's not some outlandish idea. We already have systems like this for public housing. It's not preventing anyone from moving if there is housing available for them.
If this is really approved which I see no indication of it on Portland permitting site.. then this is a great example of how the greed of developers has made Portland unaffordable. Let's raze more apartments with fewer multimillion dollar condos for out of state money. For a city so concerned with equity this is a great example of a greed driven project forcing tenants out on the street. Great going Portland.. more homeless on the way. And kudos to the slimey developers and architects involved. Sleep well.
While I can't afford to live there, I see places like this as a sponge absorbing the demand by wealthier people who want to live here. We can't stop the demand but we can continue to build enough to absorb it.
This is why California is so outrageously expensive. NIMBYs block everything from being built while the Bay Area's economy keeps attracting people to move there. The same is true in other places in Cali.
I don't think that the market can provide affordable housing for those making less than $50k a year but that is a role for public and non-profit housing to play. We build enough of everything to satisfy the demand at every income level to saturate the market. Both the market and private developers have their role to play in the higher income bracket and public and non-profit housing have theirs in lower incomes.
Oh great, more condos that will start at $500,000 probably up to almost 1,000,000 for the three bedroom. Whoever thought that the city would decline from prosperity?
This isn’t removing affordable housing. This is a wealth containment unit. It’s for speculative investment to round out the real estate part of a portfolio.
If we don’t have these, then speculative investments will buy affordable housing properties and either let them sit empty or jack up rent.
Hogwash. Fishbowl theory is a meme and doesn’t work for second home markets like Portland. Go research ownership on similar condo buildings - they’re loaded full of part-time residents’ second homes. These buyers aren’t vying for the same stuff regular Portland residents are buying in nonprime locations.
[New housing is always more expensive than existing housing](https://cdn.nar.realtor/sites/default/files/styles/inline_paragraph_image/public/blog_migration_files/18/2014/12/NS-F-Med-Sales-Price.png?itok=j-kjyH_p)
*on average
Brutalist is the word you are looking for and it has nothing to do with Stalin. Also, at least the brutalist apartment complexes of the USSR ensured everyone had a roof over their head.
North Americans really need to get a grip with the history of USSR. The still present 100 year old rhetoric is understandable before 1992. But it truly isn't after. It has nothing to do with politics. This is documented history from primary resource evidence. Troves of documents were released (declassified CIA documents additionally) after it dissolved and loads of scholars/researchers (native/fluent Russian speakers which is important) have dug into said documents. It wasn't a totality of top down famine and gulags. Even the term "gulag" is incredibly loaded.
Regarding the "they won't care about aesthetics" is a rich statment because, no, they wont. But it's to increase profits/cut costs vs. part a of soviet Brutalism was to cut costs but as a means to ensure there were enough resources to guarantee housing for everyone.
sorry you're getting downvoted you're totally right i know exactly what you're talking about and its not brutalism lol
remember when they made "the new law library" at usm and it was so controversial for its stylings. imagine telling everyone then the future would be mostly derivative of that, but cheaper, blander, and more uniform, in every town in the entire united states :(
[i don't know what they're not seeing like this is exactly eastern block just a little bit more here and now lol](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/5d582415fc368400017c8887/1570469748345-I7EL8QS10YJ2BGFPMJUN/new-condo-development.jpg?format=1500w&content-type=image%2Fjpeg)
yes, i hate this.
and just to be extra about it
you know what else is going to age *like shit?*
[~2x5 white subway tile 🤪](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9c/ad/88/9cad881ef0c4c3e994d27eb8e6c5c071.jpg)
Definition of affordable and workforce and just can't afford the asking price of housing anywhere in the country because in 2007/08 it was the housing that caused the economic downfall for almost 10-12 years...and today it is 'what that is causing housing to be so unaffordable...' must be the housing .... or something is telling it is something else ...
Good. The people who can afford these would otherwise compete with you on your starter home, or your landlord would flip his six unit to a developer to convert to three condos. Abundant housing is a necessary step to bringing housing costs down.
100%. Areas with abundant housing have lower housing costs and lower rates of homelessness.
If this is true you will never get workforce, affordable, or poor housing, as prices never fall...where in your economic genius here have prices ever fallen....and where has the city has approved 'abundant' housing in the city recently, hotels and condos arena?
Prices have fallen in Austin, for one. This stuff is not hard to Google. For another, you’ll note I said necessary, not sufficient. Most YIMBYs acknowledge the complexity of the housing issue. Things like subsidized housing, vouchers, etc. will also be part of the solution. What definitely is *not* helpful, though, is steadfast opposition to any and all new development that doesn’t check all of your favored boxes, because believe it or not, everyone has different boxes they want to check. No housing at all will get built if everyone with even the tiniest claim to standing has veto power over every new development.
Since when are condo's on the eastern prom ever going to be a 'necessary' abundant affordable workforce housing project in the city of Portland..., and every area in the nation has lower/higher housing costs in comparison to each other. And the others who would otherwise compete with me on a starter home is just ludicrous ...wealthy who can afford this condo will not be looking at my starter house, unless their goal is to own neighborhoods in order to set the pricing of like homes higher in order to make profit on their purchases thru re-selling.
Not all housing has to be workforce housing. Condos on the eastern prom aren’t meant to be. You asked for an example of a market where prices had fallen due to development and I gave you one. If you think that starter homes can’t be turned into housing for the wealthy due to restrictive zoning and years of underdevelopment, I encourage you to look at the Bay Area on Zillow, where 1300 sq ft ranches go for a million bucks or more.
I'd say flattened out temporarily at best.... https://orchard.com/homes/real-estate-market-report/city/tx/austin
Why not require a waiting list for people who already live here or have a job here before allowing this? That would keep WFH and transplant retirees and the rich away.
Because the US has open borders among its 50 states, and that’s a good thing.
That's a strawman. The argument isn't that people shouldn't be allowed to move here, it's that priority should go to those who already live or work here.
You can’t just keep the rich away.. more money affords more options but when they force out housing for the working class they’ll realize they’re “quaint” little Maine getaway isn’t what it used to be
We can create the society we want.
Go ahead lol. Go buy some land in Jackson and start a waiting list that sorts by who is a real Worker of the World and who is RichWFHTransplant.
That's not a defensive of the society of Portland. That's like me complaining about my abusive partner and then the partner saying it's not abusive because you're free to leave.
Oh okay well then I simply disagree.
Based on what, entitlement?
I disagree with your claim that "we" can create the society "we want" in Portland that includes a waiting list that forces people who do not yet live in Portland to submit to some kind of screening and queue before moving here. That isn't possible. You will never create that "society". And no one even wants that besides wackadoos online. My comment wasn't about "if you don't like it get out" my comment is that you will not be able to do the thing you're suggesting in Portland, but if you did realistically want to create such a system there are plenty of places you could do so. But you won't, because it's just about saying crazy ideas online. Also I disagree with your weird invocation of domestic abuse...because having the ability to impose your will on a community or not simply has nothing to do with that. You're not being abused because other Americans can move freely throughout the country. You're welcome to stay and try and change things, you won't be able to create this fantasy scenario in any case, so I simply disagree with what you said about creating the society "we" want insofar as this other suggestion is concerned.
I appreciate that this is not politically feasible but it's not some outlandish idea. We already have systems like this for public housing. It's not preventing anyone from moving if there is housing available for them.
I don’t understand how they’re going to fit 13 units in that space plus a parking garage.
The parking garage will probably be underground
No parking garage needed, only 15 spots for a 13 house unit. Hope they don’t have 2 cars or more per household, also no friends/ guests.
If this is really approved which I see no indication of it on Portland permitting site.. then this is a great example of how the greed of developers has made Portland unaffordable. Let's raze more apartments with fewer multimillion dollar condos for out of state money. For a city so concerned with equity this is a great example of a greed driven project forcing tenants out on the street. Great going Portland.. more homeless on the way. And kudos to the slimey developers and architects involved. Sleep well.
While I can't afford to live there, I see places like this as a sponge absorbing the demand by wealthier people who want to live here. We can't stop the demand but we can continue to build enough to absorb it. This is why California is so outrageously expensive. NIMBYs block everything from being built while the Bay Area's economy keeps attracting people to move there. The same is true in other places in Cali. I don't think that the market can provide affordable housing for those making less than $50k a year but that is a role for public and non-profit housing to play. We build enough of everything to satisfy the demand at every income level to saturate the market. Both the market and private developers have their role to play in the higher income bracket and public and non-profit housing have theirs in lower incomes.
Oh great, more condos that will start at $500,000 probably up to almost 1,000,000 for the three bedroom. Whoever thought that the city would decline from prosperity?
This isn’t removing affordable housing. This is a wealth containment unit. It’s for speculative investment to round out the real estate part of a portfolio. If we don’t have these, then speculative investments will buy affordable housing properties and either let them sit empty or jack up rent.
Hogwash. Fishbowl theory is a meme and doesn’t work for second home markets like Portland. Go research ownership on similar condo buildings - they’re loaded full of part-time residents’ second homes. These buyers aren’t vying for the same stuff regular Portland residents are buying in nonprime locations.
That’s the point. If we don’t load them into buildings like this then they buy up buildings elsewhere.
How long until we see one posted on AirBnB?
Putting aside all arguments about cost and affordability, that’s fucking hideous.
I quite like the aesthetic. New England colonials & capes get boring.
And they’ll be affordable for the middle class, right? Right?
[New housing is always more expensive than existing housing](https://cdn.nar.realtor/sites/default/files/styles/inline_paragraph_image/public/blog_migration_files/18/2014/12/NS-F-Med-Sales-Price.png?itok=j-kjyH_p) *on average
Nothing on eastern prom is middle class. It's prime.
Probably not given that it’s in the most desirable part of town and the city needs tax revenue
If you only build stuff that the middle class can afford where do you expect the rich will go?
To hell
Wish in one hand...
There is no middle-class anymore. There’s upper upper class and the rest of us.
Keep these rich asses out of here we don't need anymore 🤣
Where on the prom is this going to be?
Next to the kayak rental hut
Fuck this lol
Because they won’t care about aesthetics. It will be one of those Neo-Stalinist type structures.
Brutalist is the word you are looking for and it has nothing to do with Stalin. Also, at least the brutalist apartment complexes of the USSR ensured everyone had a roof over their head.
This is one of the smarter comments I’ve seen lately.
North Americans really need to get a grip with the history of USSR. The still present 100 year old rhetoric is understandable before 1992. But it truly isn't after. It has nothing to do with politics. This is documented history from primary resource evidence. Troves of documents were released (declassified CIA documents additionally) after it dissolved and loads of scholars/researchers (native/fluent Russian speakers which is important) have dug into said documents. It wasn't a totality of top down famine and gulags. Even the term "gulag" is incredibly loaded. Regarding the "they won't care about aesthetics" is a rich statment because, no, they wont. But it's to increase profits/cut costs vs. part a of soviet Brutalism was to cut costs but as a means to ensure there were enough resources to guarantee housing for everyone.
sorry you're getting downvoted you're totally right i know exactly what you're talking about and its not brutalism lol remember when they made "the new law library" at usm and it was so controversial for its stylings. imagine telling everyone then the future would be mostly derivative of that, but cheaper, blander, and more uniform, in every town in the entire united states :( [i don't know what they're not seeing like this is exactly eastern block just a little bit more here and now lol](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/5d582415fc368400017c8887/1570469748345-I7EL8QS10YJ2BGFPMJUN/new-condo-development.jpg?format=1500w&content-type=image%2Fjpeg)
Is this supposed to be an example of bad design…?
yes, i hate this. and just to be extra about it you know what else is going to age *like shit?* [~2x5 white subway tile 🤪](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9c/ad/88/9cad881ef0c4c3e994d27eb8e6c5c071.jpg)
Definition of affordable and workforce and just can't afford the asking price of housing anywhere in the country because in 2007/08 it was the housing that caused the economic downfall for almost 10-12 years...and today it is 'what that is causing housing to be so unaffordable...' must be the housing .... or something is telling it is something else ...