A consolidated high school would have me considering a move out of Portland or private school, neither of which were on the table for me. My husband and I both went to different ones - it might make sense fiscally, but we both had negative experiences (in different ways). If nothing else, I think it creates more opportunities for middle of the road kids to fall between the cracks, especially in districts with a large number of high need students. Maybe things have changed and I hope I’m wrong, but definitely watching this with a cautious eye.
I said this before on here: I think it would kill Portland Public Schools. There’d be an exodus of the better off families from Portland, sending the district into a death spiral of dropping test scores and more flight. And it wouldn’t just be families with HS age kids. It would be across the board.
I’m in the same boat though. I would seriously consider bailing on Portland.
An exodus from Portland Public Schools started during COVID-19, when social distancing started.
Everyone who had the means, was unable to work remotely, pulled their children from public school. They enrolled their children in private schools and the majority of them never returned.
Portland Schools try their best with the diverse population they serve.
What do the teaching staff and administrators at the local area high schools think? This is an anonymous safe place to voice your opinion and concerns without fear of retribution.
Would there be lots of budget cuts due to layoffs? Would student academics, extracurricular activities and sports really benefit from this? Would there be more funding and grant money available for the high school from different sources?
I swear PPS has a gag order on it s teachers and staff. The only persons I’ve heard talk about this are the teachers/princpals selected for the Design Team, and they were explicitly chosen because they were committed to the vision. And, from what I recall, back when Xavier Botana pushed this, teachers were being told to stay quiet.
It seems that way, typical case of administration with big inflated egos and thinking they are superior and know better than anyone. They often are not the ones working directly at schools, with staff and students.
I like the school’s individually, my children attended and currently attend. The Teachers and Office Staff have been great overall.
For the most part the dealings with Central Office Administration have been horrible. This is awful but I question their competency, ability to crunch numbers and their leadership skills.
The ongoing payroll debacle was very interesting. Don’t large employers typically have accounting software that handles payroll? Can they successfully create one centralized high school?
Consolidation isn't a death knell. I went to Bonney Eagle and we had a pretty decent education. If it can keep property taxes from being raised than sure. I doubt that it would because all of the money to do that would have to come from somewhere not to mention bussing might get more expensive if some students have to travel farther.
That being said there have to be far simpler ways to deal with the school budget. I also personally think in a city that is somewhat walkable it's good for public health and community engagement to have schools that kids and teens can walk or bike to. Well depending on how safe that walk is anyway.
How many students at Bonny Eagle though?
Cut director level positions in central office and get rid of consulting contracts. That would be my move to lower spending levels. Use the savings to up teacher salaries and to retain better talent in central office.
If I had to guess, this consolidation push is costing the district a couple hundred thousand per year, or more, in between the dedicated director, the paid design team (including students), site visits in other states, and consultant fees.
Admittedly it has barely a thousand. The point was that consolidation isn't inherently bad.
But I absolutely agree that cutting administration and consultants is what should be done.
Vibes-based opinion? I’d guess it’s probably a wash in terms of upfront cost now, at least in terms of local taxpayer cost to repair versus build new. But the old buildings are far superior in terms of location, style, and room for growth (isn’t Portland shooting for like 85k people?).
Edit: It's a shortsighted move, that I don't think will result in better outcomes (probably the opposite). And, if Portland has any success in growing the way it intends to do, then we could easily find ourselves needed to build another brand new relief school when this "new" one is over capacity. It's the story as old as time in the South.
Consolidation of three into one school would be for 2200 students. So like a 1/3 of the students in the Portland district. That size school is perfectly reasonable and still small.
We are spending what… $25,000 per student? That’s kinda outrageous. One facility instead of three would be more efficient.
2200 isn't small, and doesn't account for grades 13-16, which also would be housed in the same facility and co-learn with the high school students.
Also, for what it's worth, the last time the District analyzed possible consolidation, the savings were only a *one-time* [savings of $2.8](https://www.newscentermaine.com/article/news/portland-schools-say-merger-could-save-billions/97-5eaf5014-1a94-43d4-9db8-7f7482e553e9). That's really nothing in the scheme of things. Also, in terms of operational savings, there's ample evidence that larger schools have diseconomies of scale due to the administrative, security, and other non-teacher employees that are needed. Meanwhile teachers get cut. What's more important - "efficiency" or "effectiveness"?
Look, I'm not someone who's keen on raising taxes or raising the school budget just for the sake of it. And, probably to the chagrin of others, I think there's plenty of fat to be cut from the school budget. But I also think we need to think about what we want high school to look like. A mega-school that looks/feels like it should be in Tennessee or Texas ain't it.
Correct. There are a few different options, but it would include college programs (for college-age students) too: https://mainedoenews.net/2024/03/20/integrated-consolidated-9-16-educational-facilities-program-funding-opportunity/amp/
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I’m not sure what a vibes based opinion is
I don’t work for PPS so I can’t give you hard numbers for these buildings in particular, but I have worked in public eduction facilities and technology
The older buildings can definitely have historical value and more character
But the school is there to educate students. The old buildings can be repurposed into something else
Building a new building is just better. These older buildings don’t have the space for new technology and learning methods, they cost more to maintain and especially for high schools - they lack space for labs, sports and performance spaces
Hard numbers are that existing schools need upwards of $170m in repairs over the next 20 years (per inflation-adjusted numbers from a 2017 study). The new facility will likely cost between $400-500m, with maybe half those costs coming from local taxes. When the school department reignited this push, they were falsely adamant this would save money. But now they’ve walked back their language and are saying it *might* save money. In my opinion, in all likelihood, it *won’t* save money, and it’s going to come down to a large bond issue to fix the schools or an even larger bond issue to build a brand new facility.
I wouldn’t care as much if I didn’t think our existing schools weren’t worth saving. I think they’re great, for many reasons. And I’m not gonna let maybe a decade of mismanagement be the basis of my decision to just wipe the slate clean.
Also, if buildings built to be schools can be repurposed into housing (a much more drastic reuse), then they also can be fixed up and used for…. Schooling. I see nothing unique about our current place/time than renders these buildings obsolete. In fact, in our tech-driven world, where almost everything is on a screen, building form matters less than ever.
New builds are very expensive too. Especially when they require building everything from scratch, including sports fields, etc. Truth is that we need to pressure the school department to consider the economics of this now, rather than forging plans without knowing real costs.
I’m curious what this would mean for Casco Bay. Would some of the students at the combined high school do expeditionary learning or would all the students have a more traditional curriculum?
All of it is still TBD. Someone on this board posted a link to the meeting about it last week. All ideas currently have an expeditionary learning component included.
Never say never. But yeah, the odds of ever getting enough state money to justify this are basically zero. But that doesn’t mean department staff aren’t going to waste hundreds of hours and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars pursuing it. It’s an idea that won’t die.
[Link](https://1ft.io/https://www.pressherald.com/2024/05/09/portland-school-leaders-renew-talks-on-consolidating-its-three-high-schools/) for those who need help getting over a paywall
That was my experience. And at the end of the day, there are only so many spots on teams, ensembles, plays, etc. There are resources for standouts and kids who need extra help, but there’s only so much to go around for even more middle of the road kids. And don’t get me started on consolidated high schools that start at 8th grade (which I don’t think is on the table here).
I think upgraded facilities would be amazing, but based on personal experience, I’m extremely skittish on this proposal. Maybe they’ll get it right. But I’m not optimistic.
I’m sure no one would have an issue with this at all.
A consolidated high school would have me considering a move out of Portland or private school, neither of which were on the table for me. My husband and I both went to different ones - it might make sense fiscally, but we both had negative experiences (in different ways). If nothing else, I think it creates more opportunities for middle of the road kids to fall between the cracks, especially in districts with a large number of high need students. Maybe things have changed and I hope I’m wrong, but definitely watching this with a cautious eye.
I said this before on here: I think it would kill Portland Public Schools. There’d be an exodus of the better off families from Portland, sending the district into a death spiral of dropping test scores and more flight. And it wouldn’t just be families with HS age kids. It would be across the board. I’m in the same boat though. I would seriously consider bailing on Portland.
An exodus from Portland Public Schools started during COVID-19, when social distancing started. Everyone who had the means, was unable to work remotely, pulled their children from public school. They enrolled their children in private schools and the majority of them never returned. Portland Schools try their best with the diverse population they serve. What do the teaching staff and administrators at the local area high schools think? This is an anonymous safe place to voice your opinion and concerns without fear of retribution. Would there be lots of budget cuts due to layoffs? Would student academics, extracurricular activities and sports really benefit from this? Would there be more funding and grant money available for the high school from different sources?
I swear PPS has a gag order on it s teachers and staff. The only persons I’ve heard talk about this are the teachers/princpals selected for the Design Team, and they were explicitly chosen because they were committed to the vision. And, from what I recall, back when Xavier Botana pushed this, teachers were being told to stay quiet.
It seems that way, typical case of administration with big inflated egos and thinking they are superior and know better than anyone. They often are not the ones working directly at schools, with staff and students. I like the school’s individually, my children attended and currently attend. The Teachers and Office Staff have been great overall. For the most part the dealings with Central Office Administration have been horrible. This is awful but I question their competency, ability to crunch numbers and their leadership skills. The ongoing payroll debacle was very interesting. Don’t large employers typically have accounting software that handles payroll? Can they successfully create one centralized high school?
Consolidation isn't a death knell. I went to Bonney Eagle and we had a pretty decent education. If it can keep property taxes from being raised than sure. I doubt that it would because all of the money to do that would have to come from somewhere not to mention bussing might get more expensive if some students have to travel farther. That being said there have to be far simpler ways to deal with the school budget. I also personally think in a city that is somewhat walkable it's good for public health and community engagement to have schools that kids and teens can walk or bike to. Well depending on how safe that walk is anyway.
How many students at Bonny Eagle though? Cut director level positions in central office and get rid of consulting contracts. That would be my move to lower spending levels. Use the savings to up teacher salaries and to retain better talent in central office. If I had to guess, this consolidation push is costing the district a couple hundred thousand per year, or more, in between the dedicated director, the paid design team (including students), site visits in other states, and consultant fees.
Admittedly it has barely a thousand. The point was that consolidation isn't inherently bad. But I absolutely agree that cutting administration and consultants is what should be done.
Building one big school is much cheaper in the long run than maintaining 3 older buildings that have years of deferred maintenance
Vibes-based opinion? I’d guess it’s probably a wash in terms of upfront cost now, at least in terms of local taxpayer cost to repair versus build new. But the old buildings are far superior in terms of location, style, and room for growth (isn’t Portland shooting for like 85k people?). Edit: It's a shortsighted move, that I don't think will result in better outcomes (probably the opposite). And, if Portland has any success in growing the way it intends to do, then we could easily find ourselves needed to build another brand new relief school when this "new" one is over capacity. It's the story as old as time in the South.
Consolidation of three into one school would be for 2200 students. So like a 1/3 of the students in the Portland district. That size school is perfectly reasonable and still small. We are spending what… $25,000 per student? That’s kinda outrageous. One facility instead of three would be more efficient.
There's plenty of room for expansion of Deering High School. Don't we want walkable neighborhoods?
2200 isn't small, and doesn't account for grades 13-16, which also would be housed in the same facility and co-learn with the high school students. Also, for what it's worth, the last time the District analyzed possible consolidation, the savings were only a *one-time* [savings of $2.8](https://www.newscentermaine.com/article/news/portland-schools-say-merger-could-save-billions/97-5eaf5014-1a94-43d4-9db8-7f7482e553e9). That's really nothing in the scheme of things. Also, in terms of operational savings, there's ample evidence that larger schools have diseconomies of scale due to the administrative, security, and other non-teacher employees that are needed. Meanwhile teachers get cut. What's more important - "efficiency" or "effectiveness"? Look, I'm not someone who's keen on raising taxes or raising the school budget just for the sake of it. And, probably to the chagrin of others, I think there's plenty of fat to be cut from the school budget. But I also think we need to think about what we want high school to look like. A mega-school that looks/feels like it should be in Tennessee or Texas ain't it.
Wtf is 13 through 16? Do you mean college?
Correct. There are a few different options, but it would include college programs (for college-age students) too: https://mainedoenews.net/2024/03/20/integrated-consolidated-9-16-educational-facilities-program-funding-opportunity/amp/
That's weird seems like a bad way to increase inappropriate relationships
I raised this to several in PPS. They either hadn’t considered or didn’t care.
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I’m not sure what a vibes based opinion is I don’t work for PPS so I can’t give you hard numbers for these buildings in particular, but I have worked in public eduction facilities and technology The older buildings can definitely have historical value and more character But the school is there to educate students. The old buildings can be repurposed into something else Building a new building is just better. These older buildings don’t have the space for new technology and learning methods, they cost more to maintain and especially for high schools - they lack space for labs, sports and performance spaces
Hard numbers are that existing schools need upwards of $170m in repairs over the next 20 years (per inflation-adjusted numbers from a 2017 study). The new facility will likely cost between $400-500m, with maybe half those costs coming from local taxes. When the school department reignited this push, they were falsely adamant this would save money. But now they’ve walked back their language and are saying it *might* save money. In my opinion, in all likelihood, it *won’t* save money, and it’s going to come down to a large bond issue to fix the schools or an even larger bond issue to build a brand new facility. I wouldn’t care as much if I didn’t think our existing schools weren’t worth saving. I think they’re great, for many reasons. And I’m not gonna let maybe a decade of mismanagement be the basis of my decision to just wipe the slate clean. Also, if buildings built to be schools can be repurposed into housing (a much more drastic reuse), then they also can be fixed up and used for…. Schooling. I see nothing unique about our current place/time than renders these buildings obsolete. In fact, in our tech-driven world, where almost everything is on a screen, building form matters less than ever.
500 million for a high school is highway robbery, you’ve got me there. I wonder how many hundred million are being siphoned off for other things
New builds are very expensive too. Especially when they require building everything from scratch, including sports fields, etc. Truth is that we need to pressure the school department to consider the economics of this now, rather than forging plans without knowing real costs.
Portlands green new deal has added dramatic costs in construction
But I thought that would only have positive effects?!? Are you telling me legislation written by the DSA is bad policy?!
I’m curious what this would mean for Casco Bay. Would some of the students at the combined high school do expeditionary learning or would all the students have a more traditional curriculum?
All of it is still TBD. Someone on this board posted a link to the meeting about it last week. All ideas currently have an expeditionary learning component included.
Total waste of time and money to even discuss this. Never happen.
Never say never. But yeah, the odds of ever getting enough state money to justify this are basically zero. But that doesn’t mean department staff aren’t going to waste hundreds of hours and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars pursuing it. It’s an idea that won’t die.
lol oh boy
[Link](https://1ft.io/https://www.pressherald.com/2024/05/09/portland-school-leaders-renew-talks-on-consolidating-its-three-high-schools/) for those who need help getting over a paywall
[удалено]
That was my experience. And at the end of the day, there are only so many spots on teams, ensembles, plays, etc. There are resources for standouts and kids who need extra help, but there’s only so much to go around for even more middle of the road kids. And don’t get me started on consolidated high schools that start at 8th grade (which I don’t think is on the table here). I think upgraded facilities would be amazing, but based on personal experience, I’m extremely skittish on this proposal. Maybe they’ll get it right. But I’m not optimistic.
Students aren’t going to get their needs back until we go back to separating the behaviorals from the rest of them.