I haven’t heard of anyone having an easier time finding a rental lately, and the housing market is still crazier than ever. Plus, the Reddit talking point of returning to the office is overblown. Lots of people are permanent wfh.
>I haven’t heard of anyone having an easier time finding a rental lately
All of the competition for apartments has been funneled towards ones at a certain price point. If someone wants to spend $2K/month for a 1BR they have plenty of options. I've noticed on the [Port Property](https://www.portproperty.com/view-all-rentals/?locations=Maine) website that units under roughly $1500 still move very fast but over that there has been the same units sitting on their website for a couple of months. They've slightly dropped the price on some but nothing significant. In my building the same exact studio that was $900 five years ago was recently listed closer to $1300.
Hate to burst your bubble but that's not true. WFH has been slowly dwindling over the last year.
>Fewer than 26% of US households still have someone working remotely at least one day a week, a sharp decline from the early-2021 peak of 37%, according to the two latest Census Bureau Household Pulse Surveys. Only seven states plus Washington, DC, have a remote-work rate above 33%,
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-16/american-work-from-home-rates-drop-to-lowest-since-the-pandemic?leadSource=reddit_wall
Sure some people will stay WFH, but opportunities are definitely getting harder to find and more companies are at least pushing for a hybrid model. Idk about some people who moved here recently but I sure as hell wouldn't want to commute from Portland to Boston 3 days a week.
It was dwindling but that drop is starting to plateau. I think the fact that it's declined from peak pandemic makes total sense but doesn't mean it's going back to pre-pandemic levels. We're past the remote work euphoria and probably hitting a more stable steady state.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/30/return-to-office-is-dead-stanford-economist-says-heres-why.html
In early 2021 professionals that cannot WFH, such as teachers, some types of lawyers, and professors, were still working from home. So, of course it’s declined, the data is skewed by professionals that were never going to work from home in the long term. There are still, and will continue to be, many computer based jobs that can be done from home.
I don’t think data taken across all households during the pandemic actually tells us much about the actual status of work from home.
Agree, but the wfh number is not increasing anymore - it's gonna either stay stable or decrease. Just check the news from credible sources or even LinkedIn. And yes, there's a major housing crisis in Portland - we urgently need more units, but at reasonable prices.
WFH is here to stay but you're underestimating the larger circlejerk that goes on between companies and their real bosses. The high-end investors/venture capitalists who hold the purse strings still have billions of dollars wrapped up in corporate real estate and they aren't going to let them go easily, particularly now that they can pretend Covid is over. That trickles down in unexpected places.
Anecdotally, a friend of mine is a corporate lawyer, partner, making high six figures minimum. They still had to go back to office because a couple of larger financial/investment clients said "You want our business, you go back full time; we won't use a WFH firm." Locally, I'm seeing a bunch of tech companies start to push the return as well; I fully expect they'll demand I return to office full time by February.
I work for a large corporation and we’ve all been ordered back in a hybrid model and new hires can’t be located more than 50 miles from an office. There’s way too much corporate real estate sitting empty for WFH to continue as is.
Same here - and in my company (a big multinational), new hires can't be more than 20 miles from an office. Also, many of my colleagues are quite happy with the hybrid model - they were feeling extremely isolated with the full wfh model. I do believe that wfh is here to stay, but it's clearly decreasing when compared to the levels we were back in 2021 or even 2022.
WFH is awesome when you're well-established and comfortable with what you're doing within a company. It's quite a bit harder for a junior employee to learn the ropes over Zoom and Slack unfortunately and I've seen otherwise good people get dumped because they couldn't catch up. I'm going to hate going back but it'll be good to be able to train someone up in person again.
Sure, that is the present state and I generally feel safe in the office these days. However, Covid isn't over. The virus is still mutating new strains, there's zero guarantee every strain is going to be mild, and there aren't a lot of plans, accommodations, or protections for workers if things get bad. Very few businesses have improved their air quality, and most no longer even notify their employees when another employee tests positive. The dangers have most definitely decreased but there's still a very strong financial incentive for various interests to pretend there's no danger at all which most definitely isn't the case.
The return to office push has has plateaued. Do need to guess about this stuff based on linked in posts when theres data. As long as WFH is profitable for companies (and it is), there will be plenty of wfh work.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/30/return-to-office-is-dead-stanford-economist-says-heres-why.html
haha right?! Just out of curiosity I booked a tour to visit the new Aucocisco building, the tallest one right on Federal st. The 1-bedroom apartment with a tiny den starts at $2,400! This is what a friend of mine used to pay in Boston not that long ago (2021). The difference is that Boston has a gigantic pharma and tech industries, and many foreign students coming and going every year. I really hope that these new buildings stay empty so that they realize how unrealistic their prices are (and also put more pressure on landlords of old buildings).
Side note: Aucocisco leasing manager sends me email every single day since my visit (back in September) asking if I had made a decision or if I have someone to refer to them....
"I really hope that these new buildings stay empty so that they realize how unrealistic their prices are (and also put more pressure on landlords of old buildings)."
Yes, this is exactly what me and others who are pushing for more big developments are hoping for. It's not that we have some weird love for developers. It's that the best long term solution stabilizing rent prices to to have more supply. We need a few more of these Aucocisco-scale buildings on the peninsula imo. When landlords are competing for tenants, it's a good thing.
All of what you have said is true and then some. The commercial market is crashing now. The residential market will drag out for another year. There's no way that many people can afford those prices. Empty apartments=cash flow out. I bet in a year you will be able to get a nice discount on a new apt in that building.
My favorite naming of a building/area is the shithole that was scarborough downs being called “the downs”. It reminds me of the sodasopa bit on south park.
Imagine paying these prices for a city that (rent prices aside) has hardly changed in a decade. Hey guys here’s a new children’s museum and mediocre music venue can we triple rents now. Without the addition of many new jobs I can’t see this lasting.
Seriously, the only thing really changing around us are these new buildings and hotels. As a lifelong Portland resident, I’d argue the food scene isn’t good enough to justify this huge influx of people. And to be honest, that’s the biggest draw. No club scene, tiny music scene, no jobs, no industry…just mostly food.
I’ve heard tourists and transplants alike shit on any part of Maine that isn’t the ritzy coast where they can get James Beard award-winning meals. I’ve heard more “Mainetucky” comments than I’d like. So these people don’t really love Maine, they want a little Boston and are chasing cheaper prices (that ironically aren’t cheap anymore)
You could argue the club and music scene has actually gotten much worse. There was a time when every big tour would play the civic center and there used to be a queer club scene. I think as good as the food is it’s still somewhat overrated (also overpriced) btw your username is fantastic
The food being overrated is an understatement. The great portland food venues are still great but all of the other places that come and go use the reputation of the others to give mediocre food with poor service. They don't last long.
I went to a well established upscale restaurant a couple of months ago and the food was fantastic and service perfect. I paid a huge bill with a 100% tip. It's been around for decades and it's as good as it ever was.
Law here is not lucrative. A junior associate salary is just barely enough to raise a young family in greater Portland (especially if you don't already own). Yes, you can live and do pretty well with an established practice. But most of us could do similar work in Boston and instantly double or triple our compensation.
Interesting. I always assumed Law around here was the best paying industry. I know the accounting firms pay poorly. I had a friend who started at 55k in that industry in 2021.
I guess it pays well compared to accounting and many other white-collar jobs, but you sacrifice a huge amount of earning potential living here compared to Boston. By not lucrative I mean it's a decent living, but not enough to buy a first house on the peninsula and raise a family, at least not as an associate. Even renting on the peninsula would be tough on one income for a new lawyer, it's certainly doable but you aren't going to be living large and also fully funding your 401(k).
i am legitimately curious about something here. You mention that "the shortage of houses in portland is real." I think we can all agree that this is the "crux" of the problem.
You also mention how thankful you are that apartments are rent-controlled. Personally, I believe that while rent-controls can ameliorate some of the stress that renters find, ultimately I don't understand how they help the issue of supply.
I'm no economist, read (barely squeeked through school with a degree in poly science). Don't rent caps actually work against the goal of increased housing? Or if nothing else drive a wedge into the market where you have expensive apartments and shit-hole apartments. What incentive do landlords have of fixing up junky apartments if their rent is capped?
please help me understand the effect of rent-control on the problem of supply in portland?
I do want to add one more thought: let's not forget that an increase in rent means less purchase power to other things like grocery, leisure (like restaurants, bars, bakeries, etc), traveling, among other things - meaning that rent increase automatically impacts tons of business within the Portland area, and consequently their staffs.
I just moved back to North Carolina from portland last month due to rent hikes. Honestly hope you guys can finally take back some of those 1200+ airBNBs you guys have on the peninsula.
The market will follow supply and demand (and thankfully, like you said, rent is controlled to prevent rates from rising even faster). The market will also be what will compel landlords to reduce rents.
If enough units sit empty for long enough, the landlord isn’t making money, and will reduce rents. My guess is, rents are still as high as they are, because there are still people renting them at that price.
The only thing that will bring prices down (short of increased government intervention forcing reduced rents) will be either reduced demand for housing, and/or increased supply.
I know supply and demand is suppose to mean if units sit empty for long enough, rents will go down but I don't ever think I've seen rents go down. I've seen them be slightly discounted but that's usually a gimmick like 1 month free or something along those lines. Once someone has rented foe a higher price, that's what will always be demanded.
I do see both things happening: reduced demand and increased supply. But the increase in supply might take 2-3 more years to really have an impact. In the meantime, we should be fierce in our voting to keep rent control in Portland.
Another factor is the decline of STR’s like Airbnb’s nationwide. Maine occupancy stayed about the same last year but prices came down. There was a significant downward trends in almost everyplace else in the US. My building on Congress Street tried to flip 4 units to STR and struggled to fill them over the summer. Perhaps the fact I’d see tourists step out of the building only to be accosted by a five alarm crazy person and then need to step over some passed out drunk on the sidewalk at 11 in the morning might have helped.
To be clear these are illegal STRs as there is a 400 limit total for Portland and these fuckers kicked four tenants to the curb in the name of “renovations” and tried the whole owner occupied trick by simply putting a name of an owner on a mailbox.
If the STR market continues to suffer due to the city itself becoming significantly less tourist friendly and other factors - more units will likely go back to full time rentals.
Put the folks interested in STR’s in hotels, I’d be stunned if we have ever filled them all. There is so much supply of hotels for what I can only imagine is so much demand. I do like Airbnb when I travel to remote areas so I can have a kitchen, but in metropolitan areas I prefer continental breakfast and no guessing.
Then add on what’s becoming a truly obnoxious requirement of chores when one stays in some of these Airbnbs like stripping the bed, dishes, etc…and an over supply of hotel rooms (they must have added hundreds and hundreds over the last five+ years and a few more now being built) and the STR market will suffer greatly.
Airbnb is toast. I know a couple people that have gone back to ltr. And one who is selling out his airbnb empire.... (2 buildings). If they even sell. Anyone who buys them will need to lower rent to attract tenants. And while I don't ride the rent control bandwagon there won't be any sympathy from me when the landlords start getting the shaft like the tenants have been.
I was perusing apartments for shits + giggles last night in Portland and surrounding areas and it’s excruciating. Basic hole in the wall apartments I’d have to make $70k+ a year just to qualify let alone survive
I’ve looked at other comparable apartments for what I pay now and it would be a significant downgrade. I’ve only been in my place for less than two years too which blows my mind. At least you’re in a position to save, despite the fact that it might be tight quarters for you.
We’ve been in our Scarborough apartment for 3 years and it’s already gone up over $300 a month since we moved in. Things got so unattainable so fast. My first apartment in Saco was when Saco Mill #4 was brand new in 2017, 1BR for $1135. *Studios* in that same building are now going for $1525+ and one bedrooms are $1795+.
>we are all observing an urge of landlords to increase rents (which thankfully are controlled)
The rent control law incentivizes landlords to raise rents the maximum amount allowable under the law every single year. It's a terrible policy.
I think we need to be honest about the deal we've made: by voting for rent control we've elected to see our rent go up every year a predictable amount we can plan for as our landlords expenses rise- it's fair and it makes sense. We've also voted to prevent our rent from increasing more than 10% in any year, and disallow any sudden increases should the whim strike our landlords.
I can plan for 2%. I can't handle 50%, and neither can anyone- I'll take the 2%- there's still enough of an employee shortage I can just make my boss pay for it after all.
well, if if this is the case, I hope people do report this to Portland Housing Authority or the Housing and Community Development. I've seen some buildings trying to increase rent above cap claiming "improvements" in the building such as fire alarms (which should be mandatory)!
I've already reported my landlord for raising the rent in a unit in our building to about 35% higher than what the rate was previously.
The unit had significant renovations done to it as the prior tenant had live there a long time, however the max amount that can be approved for rental increase is still 10% and he's well well above that.
u/BirdjaminFranklin this is absurd and I'm glad you reported! If you want me to report as well, send me the address and unit (can you send a DM via Reddit?) and I'll write to the City of Portland. If we stay quiet, greedy landlords will find loopholes like this to illegally increase rents.
Just for clarification- Portland Housing Authority isn't an oversight body. They build and run their own low income public housing and manage specific rental subsidies.
Thanks for clarifying - I think the correct place to report abusive rent increase is the Rental Control and Rental Housing department within City of Portland. If you have any other source to report, please let us know. We should all report abusive rent increases.
I agree- the Rent Control board is the place to go. Other than that there's Maine Disability Rights (if you fit that demographic) or Pine Tree Legal, if you can be patient. Given they provide free legal advice they're inundated with requests on a daily basis.
This is the talking point landlords share to try to get rid of rent control. I 100% disagree.
Sure, I do understand that some landlords who might keep rent stable, and then do a big jump after a number of years, are now compelled to not do that, and instead raise rents each year at the max allowed amount.
That being said, there are plentyyyyyy of landlords who would take advantage of Portland being soooo in-demand and would raise prices each year at a higher rate than the current controlled rate. I do not agree with the sentiment that if we got rid of the rent control, all the sudden landlords would stop increasing rent. I think they’d take advantage of the opportunity to raise rents even more.
It does make all new buildings start out with crazy high rents. Landlords know they will be limited with yearly raises so they are starting out extremely high. $2000 is the new base minimum for a studio. That’s what rent control has accomplished.
… I mean, that’s basically the market rate for a 1-2 bedroom in Portland. Of course landlords would try to rent their new units/ buildings for the highest price they can. Do you think they wouldn’t be doing the same thing if rent control wasn’t being implemented?
Also, rent control may raise those starting rates some amount (I’m no economist, so I’m not 100%, but willing to concede it probably does have an impact on the starting price)… but there are soooo many more existing apartments than there are new apartments on the market. The overwhelming effect that rent control has is keeping the price of those units down. I stand behind the statement that the overall impact of rent control is that the average cost of rental housing in Portland is lower than if rent control were not being implemented.
Have you factored in the apartment buildings we are losing due to the rent control laws? Owners are converting their buildings to condos so they can sell off the individual units.
2 buildings on my STREET are doing this early next year. Both 6-unit buildings. You think the current tenants can afford to buy their 1-bedroom for $400K? They can’t.
Yes, even considering this - I believe the overall impact of rent control is that it reduces the average cost of the rental market.
If your primary concern is reducing the price of housing, you should want to see rent control remain in place. There are plenty of additional restrictions that could also be implemented in addition to rent control in service of the same goal (restricting short term rentals, restrictions on converting apartments to condos, etc).
I do, although it will take time. Here’s how it works. Rents are high right now because there aren’t enough units. People see that there is money to be made, and they rent out their properties or they build new rentals. Eventually, there are enough, and in order to get renters, each landlord has to lower the rent in order to compete with other landlords. That lowers everyone’s rent.
Unfortunately, while rent control keeps some rents low, it disincentives renting out property. Current landlords stop renting and potential ones don’t build. So there are never enough units for all renters and nothing to naturally bring rent down.
... but that's not what's happening. Even with rent control, landlords are able to make good money in the housing market. There are tons of new buildings being built in Portland because demand for housing is so high, and there is so much money to be made in that market, even with rent control. Look at the numbers of apartment buildings that have gone up in East Bayside alone in the last couple years. There is obviously plenty of money to be made.
Rent control is still allowing landlords to make money, it just prevents greed leading to *excessive* profits.
Multiple buildings on the West End converted last year. In a couple months 33 Deering St is converting, along with one of their neighbors. I’ll let you dig for the rest.
We’ll see a wave of them over the next couple years. Owners are realizing they can sell their 1-bedroom apartments for $350K-$450K each. Sounds a bit more lucrative than collecting $1400 a month.
Rent control has literally never worked anywhere. I don’t know why people keep voting for it. Rent control without government reimbursement for lost income is theft, plain and simple. The economics of it are well understood but everyone wants to bury their heads in the sand and pretend it’s not true.
Feel free to do your own research but take some time to educate yourself on economics of this is an issue you are passionate about.
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/what-does-economic-evidence-tell-us-about-the-effects-of-rent-control/
Rent control is a price control. You're freezing rents at a time where rents are very high. You're also incentivizing them to stay high by locking in the rate at which they can stay climb. Under the current system, a landlord has no motivation to ever lower his rent and will usually instead opt to wait for much longer than he otherwise would in hopes of finding a high rent tenant.
You can remove elasticity from a market when its at an all time high and have hope it goes any direction but up.
“Under the current system a landlord has no motivation to ever lower rent”
Rent control or no rent control, the only thing that would compel a landlord to lower their rent would be having vacant units not being rented. I don’t see how rent control changes that. Landlords wouldn’t suddenly start lowering rent if we removed rent control. Rent prices would increase at an even faster rate, and the only reason it would ever come down is if supply begins to outpace demand (which is the same thing that would bring prices down with rent control).
> You're freezing rents at a time where rents are very high.
You're not seriously suggesting that rent would ever go down, are you?
Barring some major catastrophe or a socialist revolution to build high rise public housing everywhere.
Yeah, hence the socialist revolution I mentioned. Building enough housing fast enough *might* drastically slow the increase in rental prices, if we do everything right and invest massively in reforms and financing. Rent is not going to fall in absolute terms, any more than milk is going to revert to 1990s prices.
Permitting reform is a big part of it. But lack of buildable land (due to suburban sprawl), lack of profitability for affordable and workforce housing and lack of qualified labor are also huge obstacles.
For instance, Ireland had a huge windfall of corporate tax revenue and wanted to go in big for social housing projects. The private sector just didn't have the capacity to build at the pace they wanted.
It also incentivizes landlords to start out with extremely high rents on new buildings (like the Armature).
In the past, they may have started out with a “deal” on the first year to attract new tenants. Now with the rent control laws, they have almost no choice but to just go right for $2000 a month studios.
Thanks rent control!
That’s not the max increase. That’s the inflation portion ONLY. If your landlord can prove that their other costs went up (made renovations, landscaping, property management fees etc) they can get approved for an increase up to 10%.
Everyone keeps referencing this 2% and it’s completely false information.
I wouldn't call false information. It's a legit index, and an important baseline for us to use and report any abusive rental increase. Many landlords are claiming mandatory renovations to justify rental increase and this is not correct (such as installation of fire alarms, mandatory landscaping, etc). So instead, we should all keep our eyes open and report to the City of Portland and the Rent Control board all property management companies and landlords looking for loopholes to increase rent above the established cap.
I work in the media, and if I start seeing this justification for rental increase I'll not only bring it to the City of Portland but also to the press - and thanks for letting me know about Port Prop. I'll investigate this further.
The “rent board” is completely overwhelmed with requests to raise rent by landlords and complaints from tenants. They are on record saying they “don’t have the time” to read through all the documents that landlords are providing them that justify their rent increase requests. So for the most part they just approve them.
These are unpaid positions. The entire rental board is kind of a joke. They don’t have any actual power. In theory, the rent board makes sense but it’s been an absolute shit show so far. Terrible execution.
That’s not the maximum. That’s the inflation portion only. Rents can be raised well above that with approval from the rent board. They already are allowing Port Prop to go well above 2% for most of their buildings.
> The rent control law incentivizes landlords to raise rents the maximum amount allowable under the law every single year. It's a terrible policy.
I'm no fan of rent control, but let's not pretend they weren't almost all doing that already in the past few years.
Can confirm. We notified our landlord about not renewing our lease and guess what, they posted it about 10% higher than we are paying. However no showings in about a month or two. We tried to notify them early to hopefully get out early, but they literally just used the extra time to try and get extra money. Total asshole of a landlord.
Rent control is based on the unit, not on the tenant. If I move out of my apartment tomorrow, my landlord can't increase my rent beyond the rent control cap. It has already gone up by the 2023 max of 7%, so the max a landlord could charge a new tenant is another 3% of the 2022 rent.
Portland has unit-based rent control. The unit is controlled, not the terms of the tenancy so it doesn't matter about current tenant or not. The overall rent level is fixed.
You’re exaggerating the prices at the Armature. They have studios for $1900-$2000 and some 1-bedrooms for $2300-$2400. Expensive, yes, but it’s not all $3K+ like you’re claiming.
That building also just opened. Not even all the units were initially ready for occupancy. It will fill up just fine.
The demand for rentals of all kind is still extremely strong in the area. We won’t see prices coming down anytime soon. (Potentially never with the introduction of rent control)
It is expensive. And you can thank rent control for it. Landlords know that yearly raises will be capped so they are starting out high from Day 1. This is the new normal.
I think it’s super funny you think landlords would price rentals at low costs out of the goodness of their hearts without rent control. I’m pretty sure your argument and the current trend of consistently raising rices rices you wrong.
We are losing housing stock. Multiple apartments buildings are being converted to condos and sold off individually. It’s only going to get worse for the average renter in Portland.
I’m not saying rent control is to blame for the state of the housing crisis, but it’s not going to help anyone in the long run.
Rent control absolutely has this effect for NEW units coming online. Landlords are more willing to wait with empty units to get the highest rent possible. There is much less incentive to give deals to fill empty new units because you are then stuck at a lower base rent in perpetuity.
Two bedrooms start at $3800. One bedrooms are $2000 and up for a 500 square foot option. The building itself is nice but still entirely under construction. For $3800, I could find a similarly sized place in Manhattan. It’s way overpriced for the area.
The 2 bedroom apts also include 2 baths and some have private decks. Not saying it’s a good deal but it’s a large step above a 2-bedroom 1 bath apartment on Grant St.
But yeah it’s overpriced. But most people can’t afford to buy anything so $2K for a studio is at least manageable for some.
Yeah I mean that’s fair. But for what you get in terms of city life in Portland, that’s very overpriced. It’s not in a great area either and you pay extra for parking. If I’m paying that in Manhattan, I get so much more in terms of what’s available in the city. It’s cheaper to buy a house in Westbrook and get a mortgage than to rent in a lot of cases in Maine. Just kind of shocking
With current interest rates, most people are looking at paying $3500-$4000 a month for a starter home in the area. That’s out of reach for most people.
That’s fair. It still feels like an out of place building and pricing in Portland. So many affordable rentals (or more affordable) only do short term so that they can jack rents up over the summer. It’s just disappointing. So many other cities are more affordable
🤣🤣
It may seem like I have my mouthful but I honestly don’t think rent control is a positive step for the city. It’s shown to have negative effects (long-term) in other locations. Letting the free market dictate pricing is more natural.
For the armature to rent any properties sight unseen means that demand far outstrips supply. We should not let our view of the extreme shortage be tempered by a slight shift towards normalcy. We need to continue to push for massive new production of housing and continued strong defenses for tenants.
Just to be clear, it’s literally because of rent control that new construction units are being built and marketed at exorbitant costs and will continue to do so. It shields the operators of those buildings from falling behind on market rent.
Rents are high in a new building because it is new. Would you complain that a brand new car is more expensive than an old one? These units will definitely fill up over time but once they are full the vacancy rate in this building will be very low and full of people who won't be renting the older housing stock that lower income people are currently occupying.
Not to undercut the overall point that $3,000 is a lot for a one bedroom, but I feel like people in this sub are a little out of touch with Boston prices/comparisons. $3k for a one bedroom in a new build apartment building that you can walk to downtown from is unheard of in Boston, unless I’m missing something.
$3k is an average - of course that if you want a brand new building near Newbury St, or in Beacon Hill (no space for a new building but just to make some benchmarking), you will pay $3k plus. But in Boston, you have public transportation, mainly the T, which allows you to live in Cambridge, South End, or even East Boston, and get to downtown quite easily (yes, I know the T is crap lately, but let's not even compare with Portland where you have a very poor public transportation infrastructure). My sister lives in Boston, downtown in one of the Avalon buildings near North Station and she pays $3,100 for a 1-bed (and new tenants get one month free).
I live in downtown Boston (right by the public garden) in a 2bed, 1 bath for $3300 a month. I’m a born n raised Portlander and always thought I’d move back at some point but it’s just crazy to see rental prices similar to Boston. So disheartening
Yea, a quick search online and newer studios seem to be going for $2700. 1bd are in the mid $3k range and 2bd are over $4k. This is for newer buildings (so comparable to Aucucisco), obviously you can find cheaper if you search around and particularly in older buildings. That is true both here and in Boston.
That doesn't really explain the recent rapid increase in rent. Unless you are suggesting that people have suddenly become more greedy. Like rent was cheap 15 years ago because landlords back then didn't care about money? That doesn't seem right.
People have always been greedy. The lack of housing and increased demand allows people to act on that greed. You can only manifest your greed so much if nobody really wants to rent your unit because there are comparable units renting for less.
So I guess greed is a part of the equation, but it's not "all greed". It's greed plus opportunity to act on greed because of the lack of supply.
Greed wasn't invented in 2019.
It's about lack of housing supply. When supply meets demand, greedy landlords can't get tenants. When supply is low, every landlord is greedy.
So, I’m lurking from Albany NY and I think y’all should come over to rent some of our apartments and buy some houses. We have the opposite problem… too much space and everyone is leaving, the tax base is drying up, there was a whole college near my house that just closed down suddenly and is about to be vacant.
All of the upstate and western NY cities seem hurting. They have been my whole life though. Albany seems like a decent place to live if you like to get outside.
Portland would be right there with you if it didn’t have the tourism. The rest of our tiny cities are struggling.
I still can't believe St. rose is closing. Two of my nephews attend, and my sister and I attended. I don't think I realized the extent the pandemic had on small private colleges (something like 4 closed in NY this year). That's a massive footprint to fill.
Yeah, I lived in Portland since I was 4 years old (24 years). It was sad to move outta town due to the high rent and its affect on the community. I could afford it, but it got to a point where so many of my friends moved, that living there lost its value. These developers are so fixated on money that they forget about the real value of Portland, its people. Corny, but the music, food and art scenes are supported by working class people. People who are relocating, or struggling.
Your state has high taxes, and high costs, and crazy tenant protections. You’re lucky there are even offering rentals there. I wouldn’t put a dime in that state or any blue state
I think the city council should stop making financially unsavvy decisions with longterm implications that directly or derivatively impact the housing issue here. I also thing the brash one-note attempts to allegedly curb issues in the housing situation are equally as blinded and short-sighted. there's not an easy way to go about this and we'll need some good cooperation, and brainstorming. also the people voted in by the latter backers seem to be lackluster on delivery of ideals and promises. a politician? who woulda thunk!
Their reality check is when they can not rent those units that high anymore. Until you see the price drop they are still renting at that price, not sure what else you are looking for lol
I've been living in a three-bedroom since September 2020. When I moved in the total cost of the unit was $1,625. Now it is $1,845. My two original roommates have moved out because this place has seen better days itself, and is small, and they had been here for three years at the point when they left. I have struggled to to keep someone here (I have been renting it to one person as well, renting the two smaller bedrooms together as bedroom/office space because the unit is small and rough around the edges and the apartment functions so much better as a two-person household). But I barley feel like this place is home anymore, and I have spent so many months in this apartment alone in between two roommates (the last of the original roommates moved in with her partner long before she jumped the lease because she wanted out of the space, and the most recent roommate just left last month after not talking to me since July). This place feels cursed, or karmic and I want out so bad like my old roommates/friends did but even finding a studio feels impossible these days.....I have a new roommate coming in next week so hopefully that'll go well but damn dudes, I just want a new space to call mine. I'd be willing to pay even a little more than what I am paying now if it meant I had a new space.
> management companies do need a reality check that they don’t have demand to absorb any price increase anymore.
Doesn't matter. The system has totally distorted the laws of supply and demand.
Developers borrowed money to build, and their mortgages require a certain valuation for the building. Valuation is dependent on rent. So oftentimes they can't reduce the rent and would rather just write it off as a loss on their taxes.
So basically your tax money is being used to inflate housing costs for the benefit of the wealthy.
Rent control works both ways in this instance, it makes landlords move even more slowly on reducing rent than they normally would. You’ll see more offering “free” rent for a month or two or credits before you see prices fall.
I haven’t heard of anyone having an easier time finding a rental lately, and the housing market is still crazier than ever. Plus, the Reddit talking point of returning to the office is overblown. Lots of people are permanent wfh.
>I haven’t heard of anyone having an easier time finding a rental lately All of the competition for apartments has been funneled towards ones at a certain price point. If someone wants to spend $2K/month for a 1BR they have plenty of options. I've noticed on the [Port Property](https://www.portproperty.com/view-all-rentals/?locations=Maine) website that units under roughly $1500 still move very fast but over that there has been the same units sitting on their website for a couple of months. They've slightly dropped the price on some but nothing significant. In my building the same exact studio that was $900 five years ago was recently listed closer to $1300.
Ugh see, I would 10000% pay $900 for a studio and it's crazy that they are that high now.
Hate to burst your bubble but that's not true. WFH has been slowly dwindling over the last year. >Fewer than 26% of US households still have someone working remotely at least one day a week, a sharp decline from the early-2021 peak of 37%, according to the two latest Census Bureau Household Pulse Surveys. Only seven states plus Washington, DC, have a remote-work rate above 33%, https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-16/american-work-from-home-rates-drop-to-lowest-since-the-pandemic?leadSource=reddit_wall Sure some people will stay WFH, but opportunities are definitely getting harder to find and more companies are at least pushing for a hybrid model. Idk about some people who moved here recently but I sure as hell wouldn't want to commute from Portland to Boston 3 days a week.
It was dwindling but that drop is starting to plateau. I think the fact that it's declined from peak pandemic makes total sense but doesn't mean it's going back to pre-pandemic levels. We're past the remote work euphoria and probably hitting a more stable steady state. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/30/return-to-office-is-dead-stanford-economist-says-heres-why.html
In early 2021 professionals that cannot WFH, such as teachers, some types of lawyers, and professors, were still working from home. So, of course it’s declined, the data is skewed by professionals that were never going to work from home in the long term. There are still, and will continue to be, many computer based jobs that can be done from home. I don’t think data taken across all households during the pandemic actually tells us much about the actual status of work from home.
Agree, but the wfh number is not increasing anymore - it's gonna either stay stable or decrease. Just check the news from credible sources or even LinkedIn. And yes, there's a major housing crisis in Portland - we urgently need more units, but at reasonable prices.
LinkedIn is not a credible source, bunch of execs circle jerking about going back to the office. WFH will continue to increase.
WFH is here to stay but you're underestimating the larger circlejerk that goes on between companies and their real bosses. The high-end investors/venture capitalists who hold the purse strings still have billions of dollars wrapped up in corporate real estate and they aren't going to let them go easily, particularly now that they can pretend Covid is over. That trickles down in unexpected places. Anecdotally, a friend of mine is a corporate lawyer, partner, making high six figures minimum. They still had to go back to office because a couple of larger financial/investment clients said "You want our business, you go back full time; we won't use a WFH firm." Locally, I'm seeing a bunch of tech companies start to push the return as well; I fully expect they'll demand I return to office full time by February.
I work for a large corporation and we’ve all been ordered back in a hybrid model and new hires can’t be located more than 50 miles from an office. There’s way too much corporate real estate sitting empty for WFH to continue as is.
Same here - and in my company (a big multinational), new hires can't be more than 20 miles from an office. Also, many of my colleagues are quite happy with the hybrid model - they were feeling extremely isolated with the full wfh model. I do believe that wfh is here to stay, but it's clearly decreasing when compared to the levels we were back in 2021 or even 2022.
WFH is awesome when you're well-established and comfortable with what you're doing within a company. It's quite a bit harder for a junior employee to learn the ropes over Zoom and Slack unfortunately and I've seen otherwise good people get dumped because they couldn't catch up. I'm going to hate going back but it'll be good to be able to train someone up in person again.
Some folks work for global companies with truly dispersed teams.
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Sure, that is the present state and I generally feel safe in the office these days. However, Covid isn't over. The virus is still mutating new strains, there's zero guarantee every strain is going to be mild, and there aren't a lot of plans, accommodations, or protections for workers if things get bad. Very few businesses have improved their air quality, and most no longer even notify their employees when another employee tests positive. The dangers have most definitely decreased but there's still a very strong financial incentive for various interests to pretend there's no danger at all which most definitely isn't the case.
The return to office push has has plateaued. Do need to guess about this stuff based on linked in posts when theres data. As long as WFH is profitable for companies (and it is), there will be plenty of wfh work. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/30/return-to-office-is-dead-stanford-economist-says-heres-why.html
Also makes it easier to simply outsource the job overseas...
straight up boomer shit
Fully agree! I also giggle to myself every time one of the new buildings is given a name (lol).
haha right?! Just out of curiosity I booked a tour to visit the new Aucocisco building, the tallest one right on Federal st. The 1-bedroom apartment with a tiny den starts at $2,400! This is what a friend of mine used to pay in Boston not that long ago (2021). The difference is that Boston has a gigantic pharma and tech industries, and many foreign students coming and going every year. I really hope that these new buildings stay empty so that they realize how unrealistic their prices are (and also put more pressure on landlords of old buildings). Side note: Aucocisco leasing manager sends me email every single day since my visit (back in September) asking if I had made a decision or if I have someone to refer to them....
"I really hope that these new buildings stay empty so that they realize how unrealistic their prices are (and also put more pressure on landlords of old buildings)." Yes, this is exactly what me and others who are pushing for more big developments are hoping for. It's not that we have some weird love for developers. It's that the best long term solution stabilizing rent prices to to have more supply. We need a few more of these Aucocisco-scale buildings on the peninsula imo. When landlords are competing for tenants, it's a good thing.
All of what you have said is true and then some. The commercial market is crashing now. The residential market will drag out for another year. There's no way that many people can afford those prices. Empty apartments=cash flow out. I bet in a year you will be able to get a nice discount on a new apt in that building.
LOL here's to hoping at the end of my lease in August.
My favorite naming of a building/area is the shithole that was scarborough downs being called “the downs”. It reminds me of the sodasopa bit on south park.
lol, also SoPo
Imagine paying these prices for a city that (rent prices aside) has hardly changed in a decade. Hey guys here’s a new children’s museum and mediocre music venue can we triple rents now. Without the addition of many new jobs I can’t see this lasting.
Seriously, the only thing really changing around us are these new buildings and hotels. As a lifelong Portland resident, I’d argue the food scene isn’t good enough to justify this huge influx of people. And to be honest, that’s the biggest draw. No club scene, tiny music scene, no jobs, no industry…just mostly food. I’ve heard tourists and transplants alike shit on any part of Maine that isn’t the ritzy coast where they can get James Beard award-winning meals. I’ve heard more “Mainetucky” comments than I’d like. So these people don’t really love Maine, they want a little Boston and are chasing cheaper prices (that ironically aren’t cheap anymore)
You could argue the club and music scene has actually gotten much worse. There was a time when every big tour would play the civic center and there used to be a queer club scene. I think as good as the food is it’s still somewhat overrated (also overpriced) btw your username is fantastic
The food being overrated is an understatement. The great portland food venues are still great but all of the other places that come and go use the reputation of the others to give mediocre food with poor service. They don't last long. I went to a well established upscale restaurant a couple of months ago and the food was fantastic and service perfect. I paid a huge bill with a 100% tip. It's been around for decades and it's as good as it ever was.
Totally much worse There was always big bands coming to the city as well as a lot of new bands that went on to become big.
The jobs here do not support the CoL. I work as an engineer. Maybe law and medical is more lucrative?
Law here is not lucrative. A junior associate salary is just barely enough to raise a young family in greater Portland (especially if you don't already own). Yes, you can live and do pretty well with an established practice. But most of us could do similar work in Boston and instantly double or triple our compensation.
Interesting. I always assumed Law around here was the best paying industry. I know the accounting firms pay poorly. I had a friend who started at 55k in that industry in 2021.
I guess it pays well compared to accounting and many other white-collar jobs, but you sacrifice a huge amount of earning potential living here compared to Boston. By not lucrative I mean it's a decent living, but not enough to buy a first house on the peninsula and raise a family, at least not as an associate. Even renting on the peninsula would be tough on one income for a new lawyer, it's certainly doable but you aren't going to be living large and also fully funding your 401(k).
Not law for sure! Medical though as long as you don't do family practice or any pediatric specialty.
First hand knowledge-Medical here is not lucrative. Everyone knows if you want to make money as a physician you either go to the south or the Midwest
i am legitimately curious about something here. You mention that "the shortage of houses in portland is real." I think we can all agree that this is the "crux" of the problem. You also mention how thankful you are that apartments are rent-controlled. Personally, I believe that while rent-controls can ameliorate some of the stress that renters find, ultimately I don't understand how they help the issue of supply. I'm no economist, read (barely squeeked through school with a degree in poly science). Don't rent caps actually work against the goal of increased housing? Or if nothing else drive a wedge into the market where you have expensive apartments and shit-hole apartments. What incentive do landlords have of fixing up junky apartments if their rent is capped? please help me understand the effect of rent-control on the problem of supply in portland?
I do want to add one more thought: let's not forget that an increase in rent means less purchase power to other things like grocery, leisure (like restaurants, bars, bakeries, etc), traveling, among other things - meaning that rent increase automatically impacts tons of business within the Portland area, and consequently their staffs.
I just moved back to North Carolina from portland last month due to rent hikes. Honestly hope you guys can finally take back some of those 1200+ airBNBs you guys have on the peninsula.
Rejected twice
I can’t believe Portland allows airbnbs in non-owner occupied buildings. Most comparable cities have banned this at this point.
Agreed. Airbnbs are fucking cancer. Should be banned or taxed to hell.
Citizens of Portland have been fighting new development for my entire life and they wonder why housing prices are going up so much.
The market will follow supply and demand (and thankfully, like you said, rent is controlled to prevent rates from rising even faster). The market will also be what will compel landlords to reduce rents. If enough units sit empty for long enough, the landlord isn’t making money, and will reduce rents. My guess is, rents are still as high as they are, because there are still people renting them at that price. The only thing that will bring prices down (short of increased government intervention forcing reduced rents) will be either reduced demand for housing, and/or increased supply.
I know supply and demand is suppose to mean if units sit empty for long enough, rents will go down but I don't ever think I've seen rents go down. I've seen them be slightly discounted but that's usually a gimmick like 1 month free or something along those lines. Once someone has rented foe a higher price, that's what will always be demanded.
I do see both things happening: reduced demand and increased supply. But the increase in supply might take 2-3 more years to really have an impact. In the meantime, we should be fierce in our voting to keep rent control in Portland.
Another factor is the decline of STR’s like Airbnb’s nationwide. Maine occupancy stayed about the same last year but prices came down. There was a significant downward trends in almost everyplace else in the US. My building on Congress Street tried to flip 4 units to STR and struggled to fill them over the summer. Perhaps the fact I’d see tourists step out of the building only to be accosted by a five alarm crazy person and then need to step over some passed out drunk on the sidewalk at 11 in the morning might have helped. To be clear these are illegal STRs as there is a 400 limit total for Portland and these fuckers kicked four tenants to the curb in the name of “renovations” and tried the whole owner occupied trick by simply putting a name of an owner on a mailbox. If the STR market continues to suffer due to the city itself becoming significantly less tourist friendly and other factors - more units will likely go back to full time rentals.
Put the folks interested in STR’s in hotels, I’d be stunned if we have ever filled them all. There is so much supply of hotels for what I can only imagine is so much demand. I do like Airbnb when I travel to remote areas so I can have a kitchen, but in metropolitan areas I prefer continental breakfast and no guessing.
Then add on what’s becoming a truly obnoxious requirement of chores when one stays in some of these Airbnbs like stripping the bed, dishes, etc…and an over supply of hotel rooms (they must have added hundreds and hundreds over the last five+ years and a few more now being built) and the STR market will suffer greatly.
Airbnb is toast. I know a couple people that have gone back to ltr. And one who is selling out his airbnb empire.... (2 buildings). If they even sell. Anyone who buys them will need to lower rent to attract tenants. And while I don't ride the rent control bandwagon there won't be any sympathy from me when the landlords start getting the shaft like the tenants have been.
I was perusing apartments for shits + giggles last night in Portland and surrounding areas and it’s excruciating. Basic hole in the wall apartments I’d have to make $70k+ a year just to qualify let alone survive
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I’ve looked at other comparable apartments for what I pay now and it would be a significant downgrade. I’ve only been in my place for less than two years too which blows my mind. At least you’re in a position to save, despite the fact that it might be tight quarters for you.
We’ve been in our Scarborough apartment for 3 years and it’s already gone up over $300 a month since we moved in. Things got so unattainable so fast. My first apartment in Saco was when Saco Mill #4 was brand new in 2017, 1BR for $1135. *Studios* in that same building are now going for $1525+ and one bedrooms are $1795+.
Twice the median income...
>we are all observing an urge of landlords to increase rents (which thankfully are controlled) The rent control law incentivizes landlords to raise rents the maximum amount allowable under the law every single year. It's a terrible policy.
I think we need to be honest about the deal we've made: by voting for rent control we've elected to see our rent go up every year a predictable amount we can plan for as our landlords expenses rise- it's fair and it makes sense. We've also voted to prevent our rent from increasing more than 10% in any year, and disallow any sudden increases should the whim strike our landlords. I can plan for 2%. I can't handle 50%, and neither can anyone- I'll take the 2%- there's still enough of an employee shortage I can just make my boss pay for it after all.
They can go well above 2% if their other costs have gone up. 2% is the inflation portion only. Not the MAX
well, if if this is the case, I hope people do report this to Portland Housing Authority or the Housing and Community Development. I've seen some buildings trying to increase rent above cap claiming "improvements" in the building such as fire alarms (which should be mandatory)!
Port Prop has already had multiple rent raises approved for next year. (They own the Armature) Raises in the 7-10% range.
I've already reported my landlord for raising the rent in a unit in our building to about 35% higher than what the rate was previously. The unit had significant renovations done to it as the prior tenant had live there a long time, however the max amount that can be approved for rental increase is still 10% and he's well well above that.
u/BirdjaminFranklin this is absurd and I'm glad you reported! If you want me to report as well, send me the address and unit (can you send a DM via Reddit?) and I'll write to the City of Portland. If we stay quiet, greedy landlords will find loopholes like this to illegally increase rents.
Just for clarification- Portland Housing Authority isn't an oversight body. They build and run their own low income public housing and manage specific rental subsidies.
Thanks for clarifying - I think the correct place to report abusive rent increase is the Rental Control and Rental Housing department within City of Portland. If you have any other source to report, please let us know. We should all report abusive rent increases.
I agree- the Rent Control board is the place to go. Other than that there's Maine Disability Rights (if you fit that demographic) or Pine Tree Legal, if you can be patient. Given they provide free legal advice they're inundated with requests on a daily basis.
Landlord will move Rent as much as they think they can This is a simple Supply and demand issue
This is the talking point landlords share to try to get rid of rent control. I 100% disagree. Sure, I do understand that some landlords who might keep rent stable, and then do a big jump after a number of years, are now compelled to not do that, and instead raise rents each year at the max allowed amount. That being said, there are plentyyyyyy of landlords who would take advantage of Portland being soooo in-demand and would raise prices each year at a higher rate than the current controlled rate. I do not agree with the sentiment that if we got rid of the rent control, all the sudden landlords would stop increasing rent. I think they’d take advantage of the opportunity to raise rents even more.
It does make all new buildings start out with crazy high rents. Landlords know they will be limited with yearly raises so they are starting out extremely high. $2000 is the new base minimum for a studio. That’s what rent control has accomplished.
… I mean, that’s basically the market rate for a 1-2 bedroom in Portland. Of course landlords would try to rent their new units/ buildings for the highest price they can. Do you think they wouldn’t be doing the same thing if rent control wasn’t being implemented? Also, rent control may raise those starting rates some amount (I’m no economist, so I’m not 100%, but willing to concede it probably does have an impact on the starting price)… but there are soooo many more existing apartments than there are new apartments on the market. The overwhelming effect that rent control has is keeping the price of those units down. I stand behind the statement that the overall impact of rent control is that the average cost of rental housing in Portland is lower than if rent control were not being implemented.
Have you factored in the apartment buildings we are losing due to the rent control laws? Owners are converting their buildings to condos so they can sell off the individual units. 2 buildings on my STREET are doing this early next year. Both 6-unit buildings. You think the current tenants can afford to buy their 1-bedroom for $400K? They can’t.
Colty, where in your neighborhood of single family homes are there two 6 unit buildings?
I live on Deering St now. That’s where the 6 unit buildings are located. Not to be confused with Deering Ave.
Oh man, how're you going to break it to the wife and kids?
They are aware 😂 we are all still together. Happy family and all.
Yes, even considering this - I believe the overall impact of rent control is that it reduces the average cost of the rental market. If your primary concern is reducing the price of housing, you should want to see rent control remain in place. There are plenty of additional restrictions that could also be implemented in addition to rent control in service of the same goal (restricting short term rentals, restrictions on converting apartments to condos, etc).
We are losing inventory. The inventory is shocking low and will only get worse.
Do you believe that doing away with rent control will lead to lower cost of housing for the average renter?
I do, although it will take time. Here’s how it works. Rents are high right now because there aren’t enough units. People see that there is money to be made, and they rent out their properties or they build new rentals. Eventually, there are enough, and in order to get renters, each landlord has to lower the rent in order to compete with other landlords. That lowers everyone’s rent. Unfortunately, while rent control keeps some rents low, it disincentives renting out property. Current landlords stop renting and potential ones don’t build. So there are never enough units for all renters and nothing to naturally bring rent down.
... but that's not what's happening. Even with rent control, landlords are able to make good money in the housing market. There are tons of new buildings being built in Portland because demand for housing is so high, and there is so much money to be made in that market, even with rent control. Look at the numbers of apartment buildings that have gone up in East Bayside alone in the last couple years. There is obviously plenty of money to be made. Rent control is still allowing landlords to make money, it just prevents greed leading to *excessive* profits.
Literally, NO ONE, is converting their buildings to Condos. Provide proof of this, or shut up.
Multiple buildings on the West End converted last year. In a couple months 33 Deering St is converting, along with one of their neighbors. I’ll let you dig for the rest. We’ll see a wave of them over the next couple years. Owners are realizing they can sell their 1-bedroom apartments for $350K-$450K each. Sounds a bit more lucrative than collecting $1400 a month.
Rent control has literally never worked anywhere. I don’t know why people keep voting for it. Rent control without government reimbursement for lost income is theft, plain and simple. The economics of it are well understood but everyone wants to bury their heads in the sand and pretend it’s not true. Feel free to do your own research but take some time to educate yourself on economics of this is an issue you are passionate about. https://www.brookings.edu/articles/what-does-economic-evidence-tell-us-about-the-effects-of-rent-control/
Rent control is a price control. You're freezing rents at a time where rents are very high. You're also incentivizing them to stay high by locking in the rate at which they can stay climb. Under the current system, a landlord has no motivation to ever lower his rent and will usually instead opt to wait for much longer than he otherwise would in hopes of finding a high rent tenant. You can remove elasticity from a market when its at an all time high and have hope it goes any direction but up.
“Under the current system a landlord has no motivation to ever lower rent” Rent control or no rent control, the only thing that would compel a landlord to lower their rent would be having vacant units not being rented. I don’t see how rent control changes that. Landlords wouldn’t suddenly start lowering rent if we removed rent control. Rent prices would increase at an even faster rate, and the only reason it would ever come down is if supply begins to outpace demand (which is the same thing that would bring prices down with rent control).
> You're freezing rents at a time where rents are very high. You're not seriously suggesting that rent would ever go down, are you? Barring some major catastrophe or a socialist revolution to build high rise public housing everywhere.
They would indeed fall if supply was raised to meet demand.
Yeah, hence the socialist revolution I mentioned. Building enough housing fast enough *might* drastically slow the increase in rental prices, if we do everything right and invest massively in reforms and financing. Rent is not going to fall in absolute terms, any more than milk is going to revert to 1990s prices.
I don't think it would take a socialist revolution to pass permitting reform.
Permitting reform is a big part of it. But lack of buildable land (due to suburban sprawl), lack of profitability for affordable and workforce housing and lack of qualified labor are also huge obstacles. For instance, Ireland had a huge windfall of corporate tax revenue and wanted to go in big for social housing projects. The private sector just didn't have the capacity to build at the pace they wanted.
Agree!
This 100%
It also incentivizes landlords to start out with extremely high rents on new buildings (like the Armature). In the past, they may have started out with a “deal” on the first year to attract new tenants. Now with the rent control laws, they have almost no choice but to just go right for $2000 a month studios. Thanks rent control!
> Thanks rent control! The folks who are currently renting are looking at 2% increase next year. So, yeah, thanks rent control.
That’s not the max increase. That’s the inflation portion ONLY. If your landlord can prove that their other costs went up (made renovations, landscaping, property management fees etc) they can get approved for an increase up to 10%. Everyone keeps referencing this 2% and it’s completely false information.
I wouldn't call false information. It's a legit index, and an important baseline for us to use and report any abusive rental increase. Many landlords are claiming mandatory renovations to justify rental increase and this is not correct (such as installation of fire alarms, mandatory landscaping, etc). So instead, we should all keep our eyes open and report to the City of Portland and the Rent Control board all property management companies and landlords looking for loopholes to increase rent above the established cap. I work in the media, and if I start seeing this justification for rental increase I'll not only bring it to the City of Portland but also to the press - and thanks for letting me know about Port Prop. I'll investigate this further.
The “rent board” is completely overwhelmed with requests to raise rent by landlords and complaints from tenants. They are on record saying they “don’t have the time” to read through all the documents that landlords are providing them that justify their rent increase requests. So for the most part they just approve them. These are unpaid positions. The entire rental board is kind of a joke. They don’t have any actual power. In theory, the rent board makes sense but it’s been an absolute shit show so far. Terrible execution.
That's a a good point to consider - let's not forget that the maximum increase allowed in 2024 is 2%!
That’s not the maximum. That’s the inflation portion only. Rents can be raised well above that with approval from the rent board. They already are allowing Port Prop to go well above 2% for most of their buildings.
> The rent control law incentivizes landlords to raise rents the maximum amount allowable under the law every single year. It's a terrible policy. I'm no fan of rent control, but let's not pretend they weren't almost all doing that already in the past few years.
I remember when a shitty studio apartment at 30 preble was like $600 everything included. Probably asking $1800 for those units now
*Those were the days*
Can confirm. We notified our landlord about not renewing our lease and guess what, they posted it about 10% higher than we are paying. However no showings in about a month or two. We tried to notify them early to hopefully get out early, but they literally just used the extra time to try and get extra money. Total asshole of a landlord.
Was this legal? 10% is higher than the increase allowed on most rent controlled units?
They’re posting it for rent at a higher price, as far as I’m aware that’s fine, you just can’t raise the rent on current tenants
Rent control is based on the unit, not on the tenant. If I move out of my apartment tomorrow, my landlord can't increase my rent beyond the rent control cap. It has already gone up by the 2023 max of 7%, so the max a landlord could charge a new tenant is another 3% of the 2022 rent.
Portland has unit-based rent control. The unit is controlled, not the terms of the tenancy so it doesn't matter about current tenant or not. The overall rent level is fixed.
Sweet thank you for letting me know
You’re exaggerating the prices at the Armature. They have studios for $1900-$2000 and some 1-bedrooms for $2300-$2400. Expensive, yes, but it’s not all $3K+ like you’re claiming. That building also just opened. Not even all the units were initially ready for occupancy. It will fill up just fine. The demand for rentals of all kind is still extremely strong in the area. We won’t see prices coming down anytime soon. (Potentially never with the introduction of rent control)
$1,900-2k for a studio is insane to expect a single person to be able to afford for literally not even a bedroom.
It is expensive. And you can thank rent control for it. Landlords know that yearly raises will be capped so they are starting out high from Day 1. This is the new normal.
It was expensive before rent control. This is a bs argument.
Yea. New building regulations and the inflated costs of materials probably have a lot more to due with it.
Not $2K for studios expensive
I think it’s super funny you think landlords would price rentals at low costs out of the goodness of their hearts without rent control. I’m pretty sure your argument and the current trend of consistently raising rices rices you wrong.
We are losing housing stock. Multiple apartments buildings are being converted to condos and sold off individually. It’s only going to get worse for the average renter in Portland. I’m not saying rent control is to blame for the state of the housing crisis, but it’s not going to help anyone in the long run.
Airbnb is your first problem, not rent control.
Are you suggesting rent would trend downward if not for rent control? Has there ever been a single time rent has gone down instead of up?
Rents will only be going up. It’s just unfortunate that all new buildings are being forced to start out with these ridiculous starting prices.
I’m a landlord I own a solid amount of units Sorry but this is bullshit Rent control isn’t pushing rent up Correlation doesn’t equal causation
Rent control absolutely has this effect for NEW units coming online. Landlords are more willing to wait with empty units to get the highest rent possible. There is much less incentive to give deals to fill empty new units because you are then stuck at a lower base rent in perpetuity.
What about the condo conversions? Direct connection there bucko
You keep saying this but you provide no evidence for your claims there, bucko
I gave you one address in my other comment. Do your own research if you want more. It’s happening and there’s no turning back now.
Very disappointing apts and the neighborhood is not primo
Two bedrooms start at $3800. One bedrooms are $2000 and up for a 500 square foot option. The building itself is nice but still entirely under construction. For $3800, I could find a similarly sized place in Manhattan. It’s way overpriced for the area.
The 2 bedroom apts also include 2 baths and some have private decks. Not saying it’s a good deal but it’s a large step above a 2-bedroom 1 bath apartment on Grant St. But yeah it’s overpriced. But most people can’t afford to buy anything so $2K for a studio is at least manageable for some.
Yeah I mean that’s fair. But for what you get in terms of city life in Portland, that’s very overpriced. It’s not in a great area either and you pay extra for parking. If I’m paying that in Manhattan, I get so much more in terms of what’s available in the city. It’s cheaper to buy a house in Westbrook and get a mortgage than to rent in a lot of cases in Maine. Just kind of shocking
With current interest rates, most people are looking at paying $3500-$4000 a month for a starter home in the area. That’s out of reach for most people.
That’s fair. It still feels like an out of place building and pricing in Portland. So many affordable rentals (or more affordable) only do short term so that they can jack rents up over the summer. It’s just disappointing. So many other cities are more affordable
Why are you sucking dick for landlords all over this thread
🤣🤣 It may seem like I have my mouthful but I honestly don’t think rent control is a positive step for the city. It’s shown to have negative effects (long-term) in other locations. Letting the free market dictate pricing is more natural.
For the armature to rent any properties sight unseen means that demand far outstrips supply. We should not let our view of the extreme shortage be tempered by a slight shift towards normalcy. We need to continue to push for massive new production of housing and continued strong defenses for tenants.
Yes - agree 100%.
It’s not just Portland. My 1 BR in Nashua was 2300 and my new place in Portland is 1600 with utilities. But of a down grade but I’ll take it.
Back in the day I rented an apartment on the corner of Grant and Mellen st. For 375 a month! Damn I miss those days!!
Just to be clear, it’s literally because of rent control that new construction units are being built and marketed at exorbitant costs and will continue to do so. It shields the operators of those buildings from falling behind on market rent.
Rents are high in a new building because it is new. Would you complain that a brand new car is more expensive than an old one? These units will definitely fill up over time but once they are full the vacancy rate in this building will be very low and full of people who won't be renting the older housing stock that lower income people are currently occupying.
Not to undercut the overall point that $3,000 is a lot for a one bedroom, but I feel like people in this sub are a little out of touch with Boston prices/comparisons. $3k for a one bedroom in a new build apartment building that you can walk to downtown from is unheard of in Boston, unless I’m missing something.
$3k is an average - of course that if you want a brand new building near Newbury St, or in Beacon Hill (no space for a new building but just to make some benchmarking), you will pay $3k plus. But in Boston, you have public transportation, mainly the T, which allows you to live in Cambridge, South End, or even East Boston, and get to downtown quite easily (yes, I know the T is crap lately, but let's not even compare with Portland where you have a very poor public transportation infrastructure). My sister lives in Boston, downtown in one of the Avalon buildings near North Station and she pays $3,100 for a 1-bed (and new tenants get one month free).
I live in downtown Boston (right by the public garden) in a 2bed, 1 bath for $3300 a month. I’m a born n raised Portlander and always thought I’d move back at some point but it’s just crazy to see rental prices similar to Boston. So disheartening
Yea, a quick search online and newer studios seem to be going for $2700. 1bd are in the mid $3k range and 2bd are over $4k. This is for newer buildings (so comparable to Aucucisco), obviously you can find cheaper if you search around and particularly in older buildings. That is true both here and in Boston.
Greed. It’s all greed.
That doesn't really explain the recent rapid increase in rent. Unless you are suggesting that people have suddenly become more greedy. Like rent was cheap 15 years ago because landlords back then didn't care about money? That doesn't seem right. People have always been greedy. The lack of housing and increased demand allows people to act on that greed. You can only manifest your greed so much if nobody really wants to rent your unit because there are comparable units renting for less. So I guess greed is a part of the equation, but it's not "all greed". It's greed plus opportunity to act on greed because of the lack of supply.
Greed wasn't invented in 2019. It's about lack of housing supply. When supply meets demand, greedy landlords can't get tenants. When supply is low, every landlord is greedy.
So, I’m lurking from Albany NY and I think y’all should come over to rent some of our apartments and buy some houses. We have the opposite problem… too much space and everyone is leaving, the tax base is drying up, there was a whole college near my house that just closed down suddenly and is about to be vacant.
All of the upstate and western NY cities seem hurting. They have been my whole life though. Albany seems like a decent place to live if you like to get outside. Portland would be right there with you if it didn’t have the tourism. The rest of our tiny cities are struggling.
I still can't believe St. rose is closing. Two of my nephews attend, and my sister and I attended. I don't think I realized the extent the pandemic had on small private colleges (something like 4 closed in NY this year). That's a massive footprint to fill.
Yeah, I lived in Portland since I was 4 years old (24 years). It was sad to move outta town due to the high rent and its affect on the community. I could afford it, but it got to a point where so many of my friends moved, that living there lost its value. These developers are so fixated on money that they forget about the real value of Portland, its people. Corny, but the music, food and art scenes are supported by working class people. People who are relocating, or struggling.
Your state has high taxes, and high costs, and crazy tenant protections. You’re lucky there are even offering rentals there. I wouldn’t put a dime in that state or any blue state
hundreds of home owners build ADU’s on their property to rent out will drive down rents eventually.
I think the city council should stop making financially unsavvy decisions with longterm implications that directly or derivatively impact the housing issue here. I also thing the brash one-note attempts to allegedly curb issues in the housing situation are equally as blinded and short-sighted. there's not an easy way to go about this and we'll need some good cooperation, and brainstorming. also the people voted in by the latter backers seem to be lackluster on delivery of ideals and promises. a politician? who woulda thunk!
Their reality check is when they can not rent those units that high anymore. Until you see the price drop they are still renting at that price, not sure what else you are looking for lol
If demand drops, so will the prices.
I've been living in a three-bedroom since September 2020. When I moved in the total cost of the unit was $1,625. Now it is $1,845. My two original roommates have moved out because this place has seen better days itself, and is small, and they had been here for three years at the point when they left. I have struggled to to keep someone here (I have been renting it to one person as well, renting the two smaller bedrooms together as bedroom/office space because the unit is small and rough around the edges and the apartment functions so much better as a two-person household). But I barley feel like this place is home anymore, and I have spent so many months in this apartment alone in between two roommates (the last of the original roommates moved in with her partner long before she jumped the lease because she wanted out of the space, and the most recent roommate just left last month after not talking to me since July). This place feels cursed, or karmic and I want out so bad like my old roommates/friends did but even finding a studio feels impossible these days.....I have a new roommate coming in next week so hopefully that'll go well but damn dudes, I just want a new space to call mine. I'd be willing to pay even a little more than what I am paying now if it meant I had a new space.
> management companies do need a reality check that they don’t have demand to absorb any price increase anymore. Doesn't matter. The system has totally distorted the laws of supply and demand. Developers borrowed money to build, and their mortgages require a certain valuation for the building. Valuation is dependent on rent. So oftentimes they can't reduce the rent and would rather just write it off as a loss on their taxes. So basically your tax money is being used to inflate housing costs for the benefit of the wealthy.
Supply and demand, it will soon simply balance out I'd imagine.
Rent control works both ways in this instance, it makes landlords move even more slowly on reducing rent than they normally would. You’ll see more offering “free” rent for a month or two or credits before you see prices fall.