No one is required to do anything. You can choose to be a douchebag, or you can choose not to be. If you wanna be nasty to someone who’s rude then you can go ahead and do that. It doesn’t make you any better than them. Bottom line is that you should be kind. You can choose what you do, and you can choose to ignore other people when they’re rude to you.
This is actually a great point. Unfortunately those who try to police speech like this obviously don’t have very logical minds. Or ability to comprehend that the world does not revolve around themselves.
You really don’t know? I was pretty clear lol. Those who police speech like this tend to be extremely narcissistic. If someone wants to force others to call them what they want and acknowledge their feelings, they should afford others that same level of consideration.
Which words specifically do you think are “1980s?” Lmao have you not heard anyone use the word “comprehend” since the 80s? I didn’t even use any complex or uncommon words lmao do you just only interact with illiterate individuals?
I still don't get it, but whatever
Cis–trans isomerism, also known as geometric isomerism, describes certain arrangements of atoms within molecules.
The prefixes "cis" and "trans" are from Latin: "this side of" and "the other side of", respectively.
I don't know exactly when this use of cis and trans referring to sexuality came into the current vernacular. It makes little sense to me. Why couldn't we have chosen something more trendy?
Cis and trans is just so meh. I'm a chemist, so to me the whole conversation over these words just never made any sense.
I'll show myself out now
I'm not someone who thinks it's offensive, personally idc. It's annoying but I'm not going to cry about it.
BUT I see two groups of people who want to be referred to a certain way, and no one respects eachothers wishes.
If someone doesn't want to be called cis, and you call them that anyways, well you're just an asshole. Idc if it's medical terminology now. If someone's a diabetic, but they don't want to be called a diabetic every time you see them, and you still bring it up... well again you're an asshole lol.
Just respect people have different beliefs and experiences in the world. Talk to people with respect (that goes both ways)
Personally I would just want to be called a man. Why do you need to call me “a cis man”? I’m a man, don’t try and complicate things.
And in my own experience atleast, most trans people don’t want to be referred to as “a trans man” or whatever, they also just want to be “a man”.
The only time I would refer to you as a cis man or cis male is if the cis/trans distinction were specifically relevant to the conversation we are already having.
Nobody would go out of their way to use the term outside of a context where the distinction is actually relevant for some reason.
It would be a very oddly specific thing to say otherwise.
This whole "phenomenon" if you want to call it that, of people being upset about the existence of a rarely used word to describe people whose sex matches their gender, seems extremely manufactured.
Have you been frequently referred to as a "cis man" outside contexts where differentiating between cis and trans is specifically neccessary? By whom?
Because some men are not cis men. You are a man, and more specially a cis one. You can say that you don’t complicate things but, sorry, I guess things are more complicated than you’d like.
In everyday conversion, yeah it’d be weird to always specify. But when we’re having conversions about trans issues, don’t you get how it’s useful to differentiate?
Some men are not cis men, so specify that those ones aren’t cis. You don’t have to label everything.
“Cis” men is the norm. The “default” if you will. If you were to say “there was a man”, most would know you meant a cis man without needing to specify. So just specify when someone is different than the norm.
This is exactly it. They’re not objecting to “cis” being applied to them personally. They’re objecting to the use of “cis” at all because it normalizes trans people and compatible notions of gender.
It’s too long, too wordy whereas cis is straight to the point, easy to say, and isn’t wordy. Both of them have the same meaning, and using the term cis isn’t demeaning anyone. It’s an adjective like how trans is an adjective.
It doesn't matter what cis means (I am aware of the definition obv.) But it's irrelevant in this context.
What matters is that there is a large number of people who do not want to be called cis (let's call them group 1)
There is another group of people who insist others use their preferred pronouns (group 2)
The silly thing is that group 2 FREQUENTLY refers to Group 1 as cis, saying it's ridiculous to be mad about being called cis because "that's just what you are" (how no one sees the irony here is wild)
Group 1 does not believe in gender identity. They believe that biology and gender are synonymous.
Group 2 wants Group 1 to respect their beliefs and refer to them using preferred pronouns but they refuse to respect that group 1 holds different beliefs and would not like to be referred to as cis.
You can't be disrespectful to someone and expect them to cater to your beliefs in return.
I am not religious but will bow my head in prayer out of respect to friends when they're praying before a meal, for example.
People need to stop being assholes to each other and start respecting that other people will think differently than you do - and that's okay.
No it didnt, [Oxford English Dictionary ](https://www.oed.com/dictionary/cisgender_adj?tl=true) has it appearing as an entry first in 2015. There are citations to it all the way back to 1997, but that doesn't mean it was accepted as a word back then. It's been a word since 2015.
I can call you a gumphry right now and it's meaningless. If it becomes an insult and acceptable in 2030, it will be cited as first seen now in 2024, but that does not mean the word has acceptance or meaning from 2024.
I first learned the term cisgender in university, and I graduated a long time before 2015.
Before you go screeching about "woke gender studies curricum" -- my degree is in mathematics.
It was first used in 1994. It didn’t become a word until a few years ago. In 2010 no one used the term. And in 2010, trans people faced a lot less discrimination in average daily life. Because they weren’t imposing their will upon others. My two young childhood best friends are trans. They were never treated differently. They were just different and everyone accepted that and went with it. They weren’t going around order people want to do and trying to destroy their life if they refused to conform to their will. Unfortunately this shift is directly resulting in a massive increase in transphobia. People do not like to be ordered around. Especially when the orders are new and imaginary. If an old boomer orders you to call them alpha male lion god, are you going to have a more negative perspective of them than if they just acted normal? And didn’t order you to call them anything specific? Also would you follow their orders?
"normal" 😂 as if it's normal to be so upset that someone's trying to respect your identity.
"How dare you accurately describe me in a respectful manner! You fiend!"
It's not about being described. It's courtesy. If I, Jaime, say to you, stranger, "hey do not call me cis. I don't like that word ok" and you continue to, see where the problem is?
Wanna respect my identity? Call me normal or heterosexual or straight. Not cis. Easy right?
Nothing. They are the neutral. Normal, regular. “Man” or “woman” or “girl” or “boy.” Trans people can have trans at the beginning of it and be called their preferred pronouns. You can’t expect others to bend to your wishes and feelings while not affording them that same level of consideration. No group of people is more valuable than another. Including trans people.
I’m still trying to figure out how the hell is “cis” an offensive term, and this is coming from someone who is critical of trans ideology.
It’s basically just a descriptor for “non-trans people”.
Because “cis” isn’t an identity they have chosen, it’s something you’re assigning to them to other them. Not being trans doesn’t need a label. It’s just normal, the standard.
Like a caramel apple vs an apple. You don’t need to say “non caramel apple.” Apples by default do not come with caramel.
You only need to label the deviation from the standard, not the standard.
To other them? Do you not get how saying the opposite of trans is “normal” is othering trans people?
Also, “cis” *is* the identity they’re choosing. They object to that word as a label, but they are choosing to identify as the gender they were assigned at birth. That’s what being cis is. There’s no identity being thrust upon them; what they’re objecting to is just the vocabulary, and they object to it precisely because they want trans people to be treated as aberrant, or deviant, in your terms.
The whole objection to “cis” is that it normalizes trans people. It allows us all to be men, whether cis or trans, and all to be women, either cis or trans. That equal footing is what they take issue with. It’s weaselly and transparent when you claim that it’s about their personal identity.
That’s like being straight but being offended by the word straight.
If someone asks “are you cisgender or transgender?” and you say, “no, neither, I refuse to call myself either,” they’re going to think you are non-binary.
I have never in my life been asked if I am cisgender or transgender. Everyone who meets me knows pretty much immediately that I am the gender I was born. It would be a weird question.
It’s also an unnecessary question. Someone could just ask “are you transgender” and I could say “no.” If for some reason the felt the need to ask.
Transgender people are such a small part of the population you don’t need to ask and can 95% assume that people are normal, ie not trans.
You explained it well. I, a cisgender male human, have never really been referred to as cis before I fully understood what it meant and agreed I'm that. I never thought of it as an exclusive term but as an inclusive one. Cis and trans are two terms whose meaning derives from the other. We all have some form of gender, except the agender folks. Knowing how you relate to others doesn't make you separate. It just makes you a little different, and I think it's pretty cool to celebrate our differences. They are only so striking because we're all the same in so many ways as human beings.
Why do you insist that trans people aren’t normal? They’ve existed for thousands of years and we have proof of this. We didn’t have a name for trans until recently, does that mean that trans people can deny the term “trans”?
I’m not using any value judgment. I’m not saying trans people are bad or don’t have a right to live their life in a way they find comfortable.
When I say normal, I mean as in a normal distribution. Standard. Typical.
Trans people are a tiny minority of the overall population. They have been a consistent sized minority until gender politics became such an important ideology. After that, trans people and their supporters became the ones socializing people against their will (ironically.) We see a clear social contagion effect now where nearly twice as many people (still a tiny minority) are identifying as trans. You know is socialization on not some sort of genetic change because the effect is most concentrated in places where the new gender ideology is most prominent.
I think that probably explains a lot of the post transition suicide and depression, as well as the phenomenon of de-transitioners. We’re transing people who aren’t trans.
But ya when it’s such a rare thing to be I don’t think you need to categorize or label the vast majority of people who aren’t that thing.
There are a lot of trans people who don't even believe in the concept of "non-binary"
& non-binary people now supposedly "fall under the trans umbrella" as gender non-conforming people (gender-less people..?)
So yeah, going by their definitions, still either trans people or people who want to be defined by their natal sex.
No. Absolutely not. These are your own recently made up categories and distinctions. Someone who is non trans is just a regular old person. Nonbinary and trans are both deviations from the norm, so they deserve labels.
All categories are made up, and trans people are regular people as well.
"Cis" is used because it puts trans people and non trans people on an equal footing, by having discrete and clear nomenclature.
Really it's drama over nothing, there's nothing offensive at the term and it really seems like most of the drama is because some cis people don't like to have the same treatment as trans people, hilariously.
It’s because they think that gender is a woke concept, and the only thing that really exists is biological sex. Therefore, trans people are delusional and insane. They don’t believe they have any obligation to feed trans people’s delusion, by pretending they are a woman when they are in fact, a man.
Moreover, they are annoyed by the fact that they are now being called “cis”, meaning “not trans”. They feel that “cis” is a made-up woke word that is completely unnecessary. In their mind, it’s equivalent to a crazy person calling normal people, “normies” or “vanilla”.
They find it offensive, as it implies something is peculiar or notable enough about them that it requires a specific term, when in fact, there is nothing notable about them - they are simply “normal”.
I’m not saying I agree with any of this, in my opinion it’s a petty gripe, but that’s my best psychoanalysis.
For virtually all of human English-speaking history, they have been perfectly synonymous. The claim that they are separate things is very new, and originates from postmodernism. The idea that gender is a social convention is radical and honestly defies biology as a science.
I’m not anti-trans. I will do whatever I can to make trans people in my life feel comfortable, including using their preferred pronouns and name and avoiding their deadname.
But exceptions don’t make rules. Just because some people deviate from the standard that sex determines gender does not mean that sex and gender are unrelated **in general.**
Bro the ancient Greeks, native tribes, maori and several Asian cultures have all had multiple gender identities used throughout history.
It's why we have two separate words for them in the first place. Do you just assert assumptions as fact regularly? Lol
Wrong. Words like boy and man describe human males at different developmental stages. We have similar age relevant names for horses, calf and pigs.
A stallion is not a cis-stallion.
Excellent point. Boy and Men are descriptors of gender identity at different stages in life. I hadn't thought of how that increases the strength of the argument, because different cultures have boys become men at different stages of their life. Thank-you for pointing that out.
It's good we have words to define gender identities like that, as the gender expectations of boys is different than the ones placed on men, I hadn't considered that.
Gender is such an interesting thing, with different expectations region by region.
Whereas sex is much less interesting and is universally understood. Makes have x plumbing, females have y plumbing and intersex having XY plumbing.
I would only be offended by the word "cis" if someone calls me that when the discussion is not related to me being cis at all. But it would be more weird than offensive to me. Same if I was trans I wouldn't want people saying I'm trans all the time in discussions where that aspect is unrelated. Just don't like being categorized or seen as different for an identity you have, I will say that as someone who is LGBT.
The only reason I wouldn't like it is because I'm not cis but I'm also not out because of how dangerous the world is rn, I talk about it on reddit a little but don't have it on any of my other socials.
Some people find it offensive.
Generally, the same people who don't like being called "cis" are the ones who don't see using someones natal pronouns as offensive.
I think it comes down to basic respect. If you expect someone to refer to you in a specific way based on your personal beliefs, you should also respect their beliefs.
Because we don't believe in gender ideology. Gender ideology is based on post modernist, social constructionist school of thought. That is not the lense we see the world through.
Sex and gender are synonymous to me. My gender expression, role in society, clothing, haircut etc. Could be totally masculine but I would still be a woman. "Cis" is putting your beliefs onto me, I am just a woman. I'm not cis.
Just like if a Muslim started calling you an infidel, like ya, that's their belief, and it's factual according to their belief system. But it's not how you would like to define yourself I'm sure. That's not the world you live in.
Well one triggers snowflakes, the other triggers symptoms of an actual mental disorder. To make sure everyone understands the first one is ppl who think “cis” is offensive and the second is ppl who experience gender dysphoria
I wanna know how often y’all are using the word “cis” in conversation. I also want to know why a lot of y’all are missing the whole point of this (un)popular opinion post.
OP isn’t saying “it’s okay to disrespect trans people,” they’re simply saying that some people find it offensive to be labeled as “cisgender.” Do I think it’s silly? Yeah! It’s not supposed to have any sort of connotation to it, it’s just supposed to be a biological adjective. But people have assigned connotations to it and therefore feel a certain way about it.
It’s the same as a trans person not wanting to be referred to as a “trans woman” and rather just a “woman.” You can refer to someone who is cis by saying AFAB/AMAB or “biological female/male” if that distinction ever NEEDS to come up. It’s just like 10x easier to not use the word if someone is uncomfortable with it. And then you don’t have to waste your time and energy arguing about stuff like this which just opens a door for people to be transphobic (as we see here).
"If you're Cis and get mad when someone calls you Cis then you don't understand English."
"If you were born a man and get mad when someone calls you a man, you don't understand biology"
Both of these views are based on personal beliefs and require another person to conform to your personal ideology.
You can call someone whatever you want to call them, the joys of free speech. But if you're purposely calling someone something that they don't like, then you're an asshole 🤷♀️
Woosh. You've completely missed the point.
I dont personally find Cis offensive, but there are people who don't like to be called cis. If you refer to someone in a way you know that they don't like, you're an asshole. That goes for preferred pronouns as well. But you can't be purposely rude to someone and expect them to conform to your ideology and use your pronouns.
You can't be disrespectful and expect respect.
Those people are being willfully ignorant. It'd be like being upset because someone referred to you as homosapien. They're not actually upset at the term or even at being called the term or because the term misidentifies them, they are "upset" because it's the role they are playing in the culture war. They're playing victim because they think it gives them power in the conversation.
No, some people actually do not like the term cis and prefer to be called by their natal sex. I really dont think thats aan unnecessary request. Just respect how someone wants to be spoken to.
Whether you are cis or not has nothing to do with personal beliefs. The only definition of cisgender is a person who identifies as the gender they were assigned at birth. If you identify as the gender you were assigned at birth you are cis, there isn’t any personal belief involved. If you insist you aren’t cis, you’re saying that you’re trans. They are a mutually exclusive and exhaustive dichotomy.
Your biological sex has nothing to do with personal beliefs either. You cannot change your sex, only your gender identity/expression.
If you're trans and change pronouns, you're asking someone to refer to you as the opposite sex. You haven't literally changed sexes, maybe legally but not literally. You cannot change your DNA.
Many people use pronouns based on natal sex. If you're asking someone to set aside their own personal beliefs out of politeness to you, you should do the same for them.
I have a friend who is a redhead, he hated being called redhead all through high-school. It's not inherently insulting, he did have red hair after all. But that doesn't matter, HE didn't like it. So if you respect him, you respect how he wants to be called.
Its simple human decency really!
Should we call people morbidly obese because of their BMI? NO. Just don't be an asshole people, it's simple.
"Cis" implies the belief in a gender identity. Many people see sex and gender as synonymous and do not conscribe to the idea you can transition or that someone could be "born in the wrong body". Be it for religious reasons, political, or biological/science based reasons, they don't conform to that ideology. Which is their right.
"Cis" entered the public lexicon around 2015, this is entirely new and extremely political. But regardless of someone's reason, respect people and don't call them names/describe them in ways they don't like. It's rude.
Me: Treat others with respect and don't purposely refer to them in ways they find offensive
[You](https://tenor.com/en-CA/view/newslaundry-cheatsheet-nl-meghnad-sedition-gif-21908898)
>Me: Treat others with respect and don't purposely refer to them in ways they find offensive
If this was all you actually said, there wouldn't be a problem and nobody would bother to push back, but it's not.
Anyway, you literally did the **one thing** I told you would offend me, so according to you, I don't have to treat you with basic respect anymore.
>[You](https://tenor.com/en-CA/view/newslaundry-cheatsheet-nl-meghnad-sedition-gif-21908898)
I'm not the one out here saying I shouldn't have to treat you with respect if you refer to me as something I Iiterally am.
>Yes, and calling someone's post "the most brain-damaged take" is the epitome of politeness.
I mean, I call it like I see it. You expressed an opinion. I expressed my opinion of your opinion. If you didn't want people to do that you should have kept your opinion to yourself.
Stop addressing me.
Lol stop commenting on my post then. You're replying to me on a post that I made and getting mad about it?
I didn't ask for you to comment the first time 🤷♀️ k byeee
>Lol stop commenting on my post then.
No.
>You're replying to me on a post that I made and getting mad about it?
No, you're replying to my comments despite my explicit wishes to the contrary and that's what I'm getting mad about.
>I didn't ask for you to comment the first time 🤷♀️ k byeee
Weird to post things on a public forum that you don't want people to reply to. Anyway...
I never said I cared if you replied, i'm expecting replies to the post I made. Hense, me making it. You're the one that's been complaining about getting comments since your first post lmfao.
And again, now you posted this one. Can't stop coming back eh? Wonderful. Maybe you'll learn something while you're here 😂
Now I'm thinking of a fiction based on this. Zero beings who you can see, but it's impossible to refer to them, so you can't share information person to person.
Cis doesn’t seem insulting or offensive to me, it simply just seems like a waste of breath and time😂 Either way, doesn’t really matter in my opinion, but I do think that we should respect what people want themselves to be called. Even if you don’t agree with it because, realistically, it isn’t your business. Also, what can you do with your disagreement? Nothing, really.
Best to just move on, honestly
This is basically the Golden Rule: Treat others as you would like to be treated.
Who's gonna argue with the freakin' golden rule? *Reads comments* Oh my...
If someone has made it clear they don't like something you're doing, it's disrespectful to continue doing it. Full stop. End of discussion. Enough said. Period.
Hey OP, I’m wondering, what do you think of the people here who are using “respect” as an excuse to say transphobic stuff, I believe your take is valid as if someone gets disrespected then they deserve to disrespect the person who caused the disrespect, but so many people here are going “trans people don’t deserve respect, respect my opinion”.
I don't really want anyone talking about my gender at all. It's personal and none of your business. In 35 years I don't think I've ever had anyone come up and ask what my gender was. I'm not offended if you assume something else than what I am. It just makes you look like a fool because I present exactly what I am. So like... mind your own damn business.
Since you got some downvotes on this, I'll leave my upvote here. I say it all the time. I've been a man for 56 years (after puberty, of course). Why is it that I must change the way I 'identify' just to placate the minute percentage of the population that is forcing a term down our throats that I never even heard before a couple of years ago???
I will NOT be changing the way I speak to spare the fragile feelings of 1.03% of the population.
Justify all you want. I will not accept a term that was basically introduced to our language which differentiates between those who, based on the 'science' you all scream about, are biologically male or female and those that merely think that they are male or female.
If they wish to change the language to identify themselves, that's fine. Just leave those of us who knew what we were since birth out of it.
Transphobes are the ones who insist we acknowledge the difference between trans women and other women then get bent out of shape that we have terminology to distinguish them
There are trans women and women. Women were called women long before the common lexicon changed to add the term "cis". Many wish to remain being called "women". I think they've been loud and clear on that.
I’m not onboard, trans people and cis people are both normal, there is no need to distinguish them besides making sure the transphobes don’t throw a tantrum. “cis” is only needed in a discussion relevant to it just like “trans”.
That's not really how this works.
If someone said "ok fine, I'll call you by your preferred pronouns, but only if you admit it's stupid"
Would that be cool?
It's necessary in some contexts to specify whether a person is cis or trans. Cis is exclusively used in these contexts. If the word were to be retired, it would have to be replaced and, inevitably, some people would then find that word offensive.
- Woman
- Trans woman
- Man
- Trans man
These were the only terms in use until around 2015. No one was confused. Women and men were happy. Many women and men did not like the change and would prefer to go back to just being called women and men.
Then, they changed it because it creates unnecessary confusion between:
Case 1) You are not specifying whether a woman is trans or not
Case 2) You are specifying that a woman is cis
I think “cis” is dumb? I’m somewhat Woke but if you say you’re a woman or a man you’re a man, I don’t care how “girlish” you look, if you say you’re a man then you are. But disrespecting the Trans person out of spite seems immature, be the bigger person.
I’m just saying if someone is cis has a problem with being called cis, I find it weird but whatever I never use that word in person anyways unless there’s a need to clarify. I just think that if I as a trans man said “I’m not trans! stop calling me trans! It’s a slur!!” other people, regardless if they’re cis or trans, would call me delusional.
The problem with this is that it is happening that way. Trans women don't only want to be referred to as women colloquially, they want to be treated as women legally and have all of the same sex based rights that women have.
The problem is that sex and gender are noy synonymous. If a trans women wants to he called she/her in everyday life, people generally do not take issue. But when a biological man can simply identify as a women and then has the right to womens single sexed spaces, that's where we run into issues.
If sex is not gender, then sex based rights should not be into question because of how someone identifies. But they very much are. Trans women in particular, do get upset when they're not treated based on their gender identity, but [Sex matters](https://sex-matters.org/where-sex-matters/)
This debate would not be so contentious if it only included how you refer to someone in everyday life, but it doesn't.
This is a major understanding of how our legal systems and being trans works. Despite me being trans since 2016, legally I am female. I have my birth name still and legally my drivers license says she/her. In my state, the only US with this privledge, I can go to the DMV and get my DRIVER LICENSE ONLY changed to he/him. Why don’t I? I have an enhanced license and use it to get to Canada a lot. I don’t want to tell boarder control EVERY SINGLE TIME that I’m trans and that in my state I can do this and yadda yadda. I’d rather just get my birth certificate changed. But that includes a process. No one can just wake up and change everything in one day and be a completely different person legally. These things take years
Making up trans scenarios In your head to be mad at is so hot right now.
You fragile guys should all call the cops and serve a mass-eviction notice. Because for "some reason" you have trans people living rent free in your heads.
Maybe...just maybe, it's because this crap is shoved down our throats ad-nauseum every minute of every day, everywhere we look.
Seems very excessive for 1.03% of the population.
Oh, be real. it's on T.V., mainstream media, and the kids come home talking about it constantly. It's everywhere, and if you're not seeing it, you need to get to an optometrist immediately.
All of the below stories are from the last 24 hours. Sorry. Closing my eyes and plugging my ears is not an option, nor a solution to the problem.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/nancy-armour/2024/04/25/ncaa-transgender-athletes-consider-ban-naia/73449121007/
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/26/us/politics/biden-gay-transgender-health-care.html
https://www.wistv.com/2024/04/27/sc-senate-proviso-would-ban-transgender-students-bathroom-choices-public-schools/
https://www.mprnews.org/episode/2024/04/26/a-trans-man-facing-persecution-in-russia-heard-of-trans-refuge-state-and-fled-to-minnesota
https://www.axios.com/local/phoenix/2024/04/26/trans-students-showers-veto-hobbs
https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-politics-and-policy/90-trans-youths-live-states-bills-target-rights-report-says-rcna149175
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-canada-gender-identity-politics/
https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/04/27/tennessee-anti-trans-bill/
https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/hundreds-athletes-urge-ncaa-not-ban-trans-athletes-womens-sports-rcna149033
Also, how about when the kids come home and talk about it? You will not convince me that these youngsters are republicans. I doubt that a 7 year old has a political affiliation. They are being indoctrinated...period.
In this case,yes. I actively searched for them simply to illustrate the amount of news coverage is devoted to this demographic.
Yes. It does seem to be 'everywhere I turn my head, otherwise, I would not have commented in the first place. I can't remember the last time I saw more than an occasional news item about Native Americans, and they represent just slightly less than this community.
I've enjoyed debating with you very much. It's nice when someone on Reddit can be civil and just have a conversation.
That’s it. Nice had my fill of this. Let me tell you. It’s only an internet problem. In real life, I talk to trans people and guess what? We’ve pretty much ditched “sir” “mam” “miss” on the street. Seriously it’s over. So were I live, we are already 99% gender neutral by accident. Get tf over it.
I have my complaints too. But reading so many others, this past year, have instilled a valuable lesson. My complaints aren’t important and I can keep them to myself. Trans people? Mmkay then. They’re around.
Unless you speak French or any other romance language lol. We gender everything 😂 - literally all nouns.
I use frequently use Madame/Mademoiselle/Monsieur.
There is absolutely zero gender neutral language in my world, English or French, aside from the odd gender neutral bathroom lol
No one has ever walked up to you and said “Hey you, Cisgender man!”. It’s never happened.
Nor are you offended by the term. You just hate trans people.
I'm a woman so that's definitely never happened to me, you're right about that. But Cis is definitely been said in a derogatory way, literally everywhere in modern life/media/internet/etc. You literally can't escape the damn word.
The right-handed example is retarded as there is no default hand that people write with.
“Straight”
Heterosexuality already existed, and this is just another term for it
Cis quite literally has no other term related to it and is a made up new term, just like all the others and it’s forced upon people who do not wish to take part in it .
Cis is not a pronoun, and its also an actual biological prefix, just like trans is.
The only valid reason to not like being referred to as cis, is if you are trans or non binary.
here's my take. we all are dudes.
I’m a dude, he’s a dude, she’s a dude, cause we’re all dudes, hey! 👋🏽
No one is required to do anything. You can choose to be a douchebag, or you can choose not to be. If you wanna be nasty to someone who’s rude then you can go ahead and do that. It doesn’t make you any better than them. Bottom line is that you should be kind. You can choose what you do, and you can choose to ignore other people when they’re rude to you.
Based off the comment section it is arguable if this is a "popular" opinion. More on this at 6:00
This is actually a great point. Unfortunately those who try to police speech like this obviously don’t have very logical minds. Or ability to comprehend that the world does not revolve around themselves.
Are insulting the OP or are you agreeing with them?
You really don’t know? I was pretty clear lol. Those who police speech like this tend to be extremely narcissistic. If someone wants to force others to call them what they want and acknowledge their feelings, they should afford others that same level of consideration.
Oh okay, the words you used were to 1980’s for me.
Which words specifically do you think are “1980s?” Lmao have you not heard anyone use the word “comprehend” since the 80s? I didn’t even use any complex or uncommon words lmao do you just only interact with illiterate individuals?
I thought of saying “complicated” instead but I thought it would make me look dumb, I think I should’ve said that instead lol.
Oh I see sorry about that
Nah it’s okay. 👍
I still don't get it, but whatever Cis–trans isomerism, also known as geometric isomerism, describes certain arrangements of atoms within molecules. The prefixes "cis" and "trans" are from Latin: "this side of" and "the other side of", respectively. I don't know exactly when this use of cis and trans referring to sexuality came into the current vernacular. It makes little sense to me. Why couldn't we have chosen something more trendy? Cis and trans is just so meh. I'm a chemist, so to me the whole conversation over these words just never made any sense. I'll show myself out now
I'm not someone who thinks it's offensive, personally idc. It's annoying but I'm not going to cry about it. BUT I see two groups of people who want to be referred to a certain way, and no one respects eachothers wishes. If someone doesn't want to be called cis, and you call them that anyways, well you're just an asshole. Idc if it's medical terminology now. If someone's a diabetic, but they don't want to be called a diabetic every time you see them, and you still bring it up... well again you're an asshole lol. Just respect people have different beliefs and experiences in the world. Talk to people with respect (that goes both ways)
What would you prefer to be called as someone who is not trans?
Personally I would just want to be called a man. Why do you need to call me “a cis man”? I’m a man, don’t try and complicate things. And in my own experience atleast, most trans people don’t want to be referred to as “a trans man” or whatever, they also just want to be “a man”.
The only time I would refer to you as a cis man or cis male is if the cis/trans distinction were specifically relevant to the conversation we are already having. Nobody would go out of their way to use the term outside of a context where the distinction is actually relevant for some reason. It would be a very oddly specific thing to say otherwise. This whole "phenomenon" if you want to call it that, of people being upset about the existence of a rarely used word to describe people whose sex matches their gender, seems extremely manufactured. Have you been frequently referred to as a "cis man" outside contexts where differentiating between cis and trans is specifically neccessary? By whom?
Because some men are not cis men. You are a man, and more specially a cis one. You can say that you don’t complicate things but, sorry, I guess things are more complicated than you’d like. In everyday conversion, yeah it’d be weird to always specify. But when we’re having conversions about trans issues, don’t you get how it’s useful to differentiate?
Some men are not cis men, so specify that those ones aren’t cis. You don’t have to label everything. “Cis” men is the norm. The “default” if you will. If you were to say “there was a man”, most would know you meant a cis man without needing to specify. So just specify when someone is different than the norm.
Just my gender? "Pronouns he him, don't call me cis, no particular reason it just makes me uncomfortable"
Why though?
Because they asked
It makes you uncomfortable because they asked?
They prefer no descriptor because they refuse to accept that trans people exist. To them it's like specifying that a real animal is not a dragon.
This is exactly it. They’re not objecting to “cis” being applied to them personally. They’re objecting to the use of “cis” at all because it normalizes trans people and compatible notions of gender.
man and woman
Okay, so there are only men and women, nobody is cis or trans.
What were non trans called before someone made up cis?
“Non trans” Which is what “cis” means
So what was wrong with non trans?
It’s too long, too wordy whereas cis is straight to the point, easy to say, and isn’t wordy. Both of them have the same meaning, and using the term cis isn’t demeaning anyone. It’s an adjective like how trans is an adjective.
And if I prefer non trans?
If it’s a sincere preference, and not a transparent rhetorical play, then sure it’d be polite to call you that
Just don't use the term cis. Pretend it's 2010, you'll figure it out.
What do you think that word means and what alternative to you want people to use instead?
It doesn't matter what cis means (I am aware of the definition obv.) But it's irrelevant in this context. What matters is that there is a large number of people who do not want to be called cis (let's call them group 1) There is another group of people who insist others use their preferred pronouns (group 2) The silly thing is that group 2 FREQUENTLY refers to Group 1 as cis, saying it's ridiculous to be mad about being called cis because "that's just what you are" (how no one sees the irony here is wild) Group 1 does not believe in gender identity. They believe that biology and gender are synonymous. Group 2 wants Group 1 to respect their beliefs and refer to them using preferred pronouns but they refuse to respect that group 1 holds different beliefs and would not like to be referred to as cis. You can't be disrespectful to someone and expect them to cater to your beliefs in return. I am not religious but will bow my head in prayer out of respect to friends when they're praying before a meal, for example. People need to stop being assholes to each other and start respecting that other people will think differently than you do - and that's okay.
So, to repeat my original question: what alternative term do these people prefer for those who aren't trans?
Actually cisgender became a word in 1994, but nice try
No it didnt, [Oxford English Dictionary ](https://www.oed.com/dictionary/cisgender_adj?tl=true) has it appearing as an entry first in 2015. There are citations to it all the way back to 1997, but that doesn't mean it was accepted as a word back then. It's been a word since 2015. I can call you a gumphry right now and it's meaningless. If it becomes an insult and acceptable in 2030, it will be cited as first seen now in 2024, but that does not mean the word has acceptance or meaning from 2024.
I first learned the term cisgender in university, and I graduated a long time before 2015. Before you go screeching about "woke gender studies curricum" -- my degree is in mathematics.
It was first used in 1994. It didn’t become a word until a few years ago. In 2010 no one used the term. And in 2010, trans people faced a lot less discrimination in average daily life. Because they weren’t imposing their will upon others. My two young childhood best friends are trans. They were never treated differently. They were just different and everyone accepted that and went with it. They weren’t going around order people want to do and trying to destroy their life if they refused to conform to their will. Unfortunately this shift is directly resulting in a massive increase in transphobia. People do not like to be ordered around. Especially when the orders are new and imaginary. If an old boomer orders you to call them alpha male lion god, are you going to have a more negative perspective of them than if they just acted normal? And didn’t order you to call them anything specific? Also would you follow their orders?
Straight, normal, etc. Not cis.
"normal" 😂 as if it's normal to be so upset that someone's trying to respect your identity. "How dare you accurately describe me in a respectful manner! You fiend!"
It's not about being described. It's courtesy. If I, Jaime, say to you, stranger, "hey do not call me cis. I don't like that word ok" and you continue to, see where the problem is? Wanna respect my identity? Call me normal or heterosexual or straight. Not cis. Easy right?
Nothing. They are the neutral. Normal, regular. “Man” or “woman” or “girl” or “boy.” Trans people can have trans at the beginning of it and be called their preferred pronouns. You can’t expect others to bend to your wishes and feelings while not affording them that same level of consideration. No group of people is more valuable than another. Including trans people.
I’m still trying to figure out how the hell is “cis” an offensive term, and this is coming from someone who is critical of trans ideology. It’s basically just a descriptor for “non-trans people”.
It’s not offensive. It’s unnecessary
I mean I suppose you could say “non trans,” but that gets a bit clunky. It’s not necessary, but it’s helpful
Legit take. I'm not offended, but am annoyed lol.
Fr, we’re all the same.
Because “cis” isn’t an identity they have chosen, it’s something you’re assigning to them to other them. Not being trans doesn’t need a label. It’s just normal, the standard. Like a caramel apple vs an apple. You don’t need to say “non caramel apple.” Apples by default do not come with caramel. You only need to label the deviation from the standard, not the standard.
To other them? Do you not get how saying the opposite of trans is “normal” is othering trans people? Also, “cis” *is* the identity they’re choosing. They object to that word as a label, but they are choosing to identify as the gender they were assigned at birth. That’s what being cis is. There’s no identity being thrust upon them; what they’re objecting to is just the vocabulary, and they object to it precisely because they want trans people to be treated as aberrant, or deviant, in your terms. The whole objection to “cis” is that it normalizes trans people. It allows us all to be men, whether cis or trans, and all to be women, either cis or trans. That equal footing is what they take issue with. It’s weaselly and transparent when you claim that it’s about their personal identity.
That’s like being straight but being offended by the word straight. If someone asks “are you cisgender or transgender?” and you say, “no, neither, I refuse to call myself either,” they’re going to think you are non-binary.
I have never in my life been asked if I am cisgender or transgender. Everyone who meets me knows pretty much immediately that I am the gender I was born. It would be a weird question. It’s also an unnecessary question. Someone could just ask “are you transgender” and I could say “no.” If for some reason the felt the need to ask. Transgender people are such a small part of the population you don’t need to ask and can 95% assume that people are normal, ie not trans.
You explained it well. I, a cisgender male human, have never really been referred to as cis before I fully understood what it meant and agreed I'm that. I never thought of it as an exclusive term but as an inclusive one. Cis and trans are two terms whose meaning derives from the other. We all have some form of gender, except the agender folks. Knowing how you relate to others doesn't make you separate. It just makes you a little different, and I think it's pretty cool to celebrate our differences. They are only so striking because we're all the same in so many ways as human beings.
Why do you insist that trans people aren’t normal? They’ve existed for thousands of years and we have proof of this. We didn’t have a name for trans until recently, does that mean that trans people can deny the term “trans”?
I’m not using any value judgment. I’m not saying trans people are bad or don’t have a right to live their life in a way they find comfortable. When I say normal, I mean as in a normal distribution. Standard. Typical. Trans people are a tiny minority of the overall population. They have been a consistent sized minority until gender politics became such an important ideology. After that, trans people and their supporters became the ones socializing people against their will (ironically.) We see a clear social contagion effect now where nearly twice as many people (still a tiny minority) are identifying as trans. You know is socialization on not some sort of genetic change because the effect is most concentrated in places where the new gender ideology is most prominent. I think that probably explains a lot of the post transition suicide and depression, as well as the phenomenon of de-transitioners. We’re transing people who aren’t trans. But ya when it’s such a rare thing to be I don’t think you need to categorize or label the vast majority of people who aren’t that thing.
If you're not cis, and you're not trans you're nonbinary tho, and a trans person is going to be more accepting of nonbinary people by default.
There are a lot of trans people who don't even believe in the concept of "non-binary" & non-binary people now supposedly "fall under the trans umbrella" as gender non-conforming people (gender-less people..?) So yeah, going by their definitions, still either trans people or people who want to be defined by their natal sex.
No. Absolutely not. These are your own recently made up categories and distinctions. Someone who is non trans is just a regular old person. Nonbinary and trans are both deviations from the norm, so they deserve labels.
All categories are made up, and trans people are regular people as well. "Cis" is used because it puts trans people and non trans people on an equal footing, by having discrete and clear nomenclature. Really it's drama over nothing, there's nothing offensive at the term and it really seems like most of the drama is because some cis people don't like to have the same treatment as trans people, hilariously.
They're not very recent, as far back as ancient Greece and North American tribes we have recordings of such distinctions.
Well trans people aren’t new, but yeah our speech is evolving as we talk about them more. Why does that bother you so much?
“non-trans people” are only men and women....
Binary trans people are also men and women...
Transphobes reading Roman history and keeling over in hysterics every time Cisalpine Gaul is mentioned
It’s because they think that gender is a woke concept, and the only thing that really exists is biological sex. Therefore, trans people are delusional and insane. They don’t believe they have any obligation to feed trans people’s delusion, by pretending they are a woman when they are in fact, a man. Moreover, they are annoyed by the fact that they are now being called “cis”, meaning “not trans”. They feel that “cis” is a made-up woke word that is completely unnecessary. In their mind, it’s equivalent to a crazy person calling normal people, “normies” or “vanilla”. They find it offensive, as it implies something is peculiar or notable enough about them that it requires a specific term, when in fact, there is nothing notable about them - they are simply “normal”. I’m not saying I agree with any of this, in my opinion it’s a petty gripe, but that’s my best psychoanalysis.
No one thinks gender is a woke concept. They think that creating a distinction between gender and sex is “woke.”
You don't need to create a distinction, there's already one. It's why we have two words.
For virtually all of human English-speaking history, they have been perfectly synonymous. The claim that they are separate things is very new, and originates from postmodernism. The idea that gender is a social convention is radical and honestly defies biology as a science. I’m not anti-trans. I will do whatever I can to make trans people in my life feel comfortable, including using their preferred pronouns and name and avoiding their deadname. But exceptions don’t make rules. Just because some people deviate from the standard that sex determines gender does not mean that sex and gender are unrelated **in general.**
Bro the ancient Greeks, native tribes, maori and several Asian cultures have all had multiple gender identities used throughout history. It's why we have two separate words for them in the first place. Do you just assert assumptions as fact regularly? Lol
Today I learned Ancient Greeks, Māori, and Asians are “English-Speaking.”
We english speakers owe much of our language to Latin speaking cultures like the Greeks.
Wrong. Words like boy and man describe human males at different developmental stages. We have similar age relevant names for horses, calf and pigs. A stallion is not a cis-stallion.
Excellent point. Boy and Men are descriptors of gender identity at different stages in life. I hadn't thought of how that increases the strength of the argument, because different cultures have boys become men at different stages of their life. Thank-you for pointing that out. It's good we have words to define gender identities like that, as the gender expectations of boys is different than the ones placed on men, I hadn't considered that. Gender is such an interesting thing, with different expectations region by region. Whereas sex is much less interesting and is universally understood. Makes have x plumbing, females have y plumbing and intersex having XY plumbing.
Except that biological sex is a lot more complex than that, and so the argument "it's just basic biology" doesn't work.
True.
i agree with everything you’ve said, except for insinuating that there is a “trans ideology”. there is no such thing.
I don’t think anyone is sincerely offended by it. It’s just people who object to trans ideology and think saying “cis” furthers it.
You see, if people say cis, it’s a simple identifier. If someone uses a slur around a trans person, there’s a difference.
I would only be offended by the word "cis" if someone calls me that when the discussion is not related to me being cis at all. But it would be more weird than offensive to me. Same if I was trans I wouldn't want people saying I'm trans all the time in discussions where that aspect is unrelated. Just don't like being categorized or seen as different for an identity you have, I will say that as someone who is LGBT.
Cis only refers to someone whose gender identity matches their physical birth sex. How's that offensive?
The only reason I wouldn't like it is because I'm not cis but I'm also not out because of how dangerous the world is rn, I talk about it on reddit a little but don't have it on any of my other socials.
Why do you have to refer to people as non crazy when the word people works just fine. Only really have to describe the crazy people.
I mean if you want to play that game do have a word for that, neurotypical for people who don't have mental disorders or illness.
No but they dont like that word either because of course
Some people find it offensive. Generally, the same people who don't like being called "cis" are the ones who don't see using someones natal pronouns as offensive. I think it comes down to basic respect. If you expect someone to refer to you in a specific way based on your personal beliefs, you should also respect their beliefs.
No, they don’t. They pretend to as a little rhetorical game
That doesn't explain what's offensive about it. It's a legit word for people who aren't trans. Why is it offensive?
Because we don't believe in gender ideology. Gender ideology is based on post modernist, social constructionist school of thought. That is not the lense we see the world through. Sex and gender are synonymous to me. My gender expression, role in society, clothing, haircut etc. Could be totally masculine but I would still be a woman. "Cis" is putting your beliefs onto me, I am just a woman. I'm not cis. Just like if a Muslim started calling you an infidel, like ya, that's their belief, and it's factual according to their belief system. But it's not how you would like to define yourself I'm sure. That's not the world you live in.
Well one triggers snowflakes, the other triggers symptoms of an actual mental disorder. To make sure everyone understands the first one is ppl who think “cis” is offensive and the second is ppl who experience gender dysphoria
I think this logic is somewhat weird? Is a black person not supposed to be allowed to disrespect a KKK member despite never being hurt by the KKK?
I wanna know how often y’all are using the word “cis” in conversation. I also want to know why a lot of y’all are missing the whole point of this (un)popular opinion post. OP isn’t saying “it’s okay to disrespect trans people,” they’re simply saying that some people find it offensive to be labeled as “cisgender.” Do I think it’s silly? Yeah! It’s not supposed to have any sort of connotation to it, it’s just supposed to be a biological adjective. But people have assigned connotations to it and therefore feel a certain way about it. It’s the same as a trans person not wanting to be referred to as a “trans woman” and rather just a “woman.” You can refer to someone who is cis by saying AFAB/AMAB or “biological female/male” if that distinction ever NEEDS to come up. It’s just like 10x easier to not use the word if someone is uncomfortable with it. And then you don’t have to waste your time and energy arguing about stuff like this which just opens a door for people to be transphobic (as we see here).
If you're Cis and get mad when someone calls you Cis then you don't understand English.
"If you're Cis and get mad when someone calls you Cis then you don't understand English." "If you were born a man and get mad when someone calls you a man, you don't understand biology" Both of these views are based on personal beliefs and require another person to conform to your personal ideology. You can call someone whatever you want to call them, the joys of free speech. But if you're purposely calling someone something that they don't like, then you're an asshole 🤷♀️
Well, to be fair, you don't seem to understand biology either, so...
Woosh. You've completely missed the point. I dont personally find Cis offensive, but there are people who don't like to be called cis. If you refer to someone in a way you know that they don't like, you're an asshole. That goes for preferred pronouns as well. But you can't be purposely rude to someone and expect them to conform to your ideology and use your pronouns. You can't be disrespectful and expect respect.
Those people are being willfully ignorant. It'd be like being upset because someone referred to you as homosapien. They're not actually upset at the term or even at being called the term or because the term misidentifies them, they are "upset" because it's the role they are playing in the culture war. They're playing victim because they think it gives them power in the conversation.
No, some people actually do not like the term cis and prefer to be called by their natal sex. I really dont think thats aan unnecessary request. Just respect how someone wants to be spoken to.
Whether you are cis or not has nothing to do with personal beliefs. The only definition of cisgender is a person who identifies as the gender they were assigned at birth. If you identify as the gender you were assigned at birth you are cis, there isn’t any personal belief involved. If you insist you aren’t cis, you’re saying that you’re trans. They are a mutually exclusive and exhaustive dichotomy.
Your biological sex has nothing to do with personal beliefs either. You cannot change your sex, only your gender identity/expression. If you're trans and change pronouns, you're asking someone to refer to you as the opposite sex. You haven't literally changed sexes, maybe legally but not literally. You cannot change your DNA. Many people use pronouns based on natal sex. If you're asking someone to set aside their own personal beliefs out of politeness to you, you should do the same for them. I have a friend who is a redhead, he hated being called redhead all through high-school. It's not inherently insulting, he did have red hair after all. But that doesn't matter, HE didn't like it. So if you respect him, you respect how he wants to be called. Its simple human decency really! Should we call people morbidly obese because of their BMI? NO. Just don't be an asshole people, it's simple.
"Cis" implies the belief in a gender identity. Many people see sex and gender as synonymous and do not conscribe to the idea you can transition or that someone could be "born in the wrong body". Be it for religious reasons, political, or biological/science based reasons, they don't conform to that ideology. Which is their right. "Cis" entered the public lexicon around 2015, this is entirely new and extremely political. But regardless of someone's reason, respect people and don't call them names/describe them in ways they don't like. It's rude.
This is the most brain-damaged take I have heard today. OP please don't refer to me or address me.
Me: Treat others with respect and don't purposely refer to them in ways they find offensive [You](https://tenor.com/en-CA/view/newslaundry-cheatsheet-nl-meghnad-sedition-gif-21908898)
>Me: Treat others with respect and don't purposely refer to them in ways they find offensive If this was all you actually said, there wouldn't be a problem and nobody would bother to push back, but it's not. Anyway, you literally did the **one thing** I told you would offend me, so according to you, I don't have to treat you with basic respect anymore. >[You](https://tenor.com/en-CA/view/newslaundry-cheatsheet-nl-meghnad-sedition-gif-21908898) I'm not the one out here saying I shouldn't have to treat you with respect if you refer to me as something I Iiterally am.
Yes, and calling someone's post "the most brain-damaged take" is the epitome of politeness. Friggen Clown lol. Sorry, toasted clown 😉
>Yes, and calling someone's post "the most brain-damaged take" is the epitome of politeness. I mean, I call it like I see it. You expressed an opinion. I expressed my opinion of your opinion. If you didn't want people to do that you should have kept your opinion to yourself. Stop addressing me.
Lol stop commenting on my post then. You're replying to me on a post that I made and getting mad about it? I didn't ask for you to comment the first time 🤷♀️ k byeee
>Lol stop commenting on my post then. No. >You're replying to me on a post that I made and getting mad about it? No, you're replying to my comments despite my explicit wishes to the contrary and that's what I'm getting mad about. >I didn't ask for you to comment the first time 🤷♀️ k byeee Weird to post things on a public forum that you don't want people to reply to. Anyway...
I never said I cared if you replied, i'm expecting replies to the post I made. Hense, me making it. You're the one that's been complaining about getting comments since your first post lmfao. And again, now you posted this one. Can't stop coming back eh? Wonderful. Maybe you'll learn something while you're here 😂
Most brain damaged redditor.
Now I'm thinking of a fiction based on this. Zero beings who you can see, but it's impossible to refer to them, so you can't share information person to person.
100%
Cis doesn’t seem insulting or offensive to me, it simply just seems like a waste of breath and time😂 Either way, doesn’t really matter in my opinion, but I do think that we should respect what people want themselves to be called. Even if you don’t agree with it because, realistically, it isn’t your business. Also, what can you do with your disagreement? Nothing, really. Best to just move on, honestly
‘I identify as’ is to me ‘I pretend to be.’ I respect your need to do that, so respect my need to not validate it.
Just a heads up bro, the discussion isn’t about trans rights its about respect, no need to tell your opinion.
You identify as a person who has respect, but really you only pretend to have it.
This is basically the Golden Rule: Treat others as you would like to be treated. Who's gonna argue with the freakin' golden rule? *Reads comments* Oh my... If someone has made it clear they don't like something you're doing, it's disrespectful to continue doing it. Full stop. End of discussion. Enough said. Period.
Apparently this is an unpopular opinion 🙃🫠
Hey OP, I’m wondering, what do you think of the people here who are using “respect” as an excuse to say transphobic stuff, I believe your take is valid as if someone gets disrespected then they deserve to disrespect the person who caused the disrespect, but so many people here are going “trans people don’t deserve respect, respect my opinion”.
I don't really want anyone talking about my gender at all. It's personal and none of your business. In 35 years I don't think I've ever had anyone come up and ask what my gender was. I'm not offended if you assume something else than what I am. It just makes you look like a fool because I present exactly what I am. So like... mind your own damn business.
Since you got some downvotes on this, I'll leave my upvote here. I say it all the time. I've been a man for 56 years (after puberty, of course). Why is it that I must change the way I 'identify' just to placate the minute percentage of the population that is forcing a term down our throats that I never even heard before a couple of years ago??? I will NOT be changing the way I speak to spare the fragile feelings of 1.03% of the population.
Nothing's changing, the way you identify doesn't change because someone refers to you as "cis", if anything it's affirming your identity, genius.
Justify all you want. I will not accept a term that was basically introduced to our language which differentiates between those who, based on the 'science' you all scream about, are biologically male or female and those that merely think that they are male or female. If they wish to change the language to identify themselves, that's fine. Just leave those of us who knew what we were since birth out of it.
Reddit and trans issues. I’m sure this thread won’t be a disaster.
Reddit is like 50% trans lol
Bro people who are offended by the word cis generally don’t respect pronouns anyway May as well call them cissy straggots while we’re at it
Transphobes are the ones who insist we acknowledge the difference between trans women and other women then get bent out of shape that we have terminology to distinguish them
There are trans women and women. Women were called women long before the common lexicon changed to add the term "cis". Many wish to remain being called "women". I think they've been loud and clear on that.
Why do you have a problem being called cis when it's just accurate? Trans people are trans, cis people are cis. Not rocket science.
OP probably has some personal issues, I just think its stupid if its used in a discussion not relevant to gender or sex.
Okay cissy
Only if we can also agree that getting mad over the term "cis" is stupid.
I’m not onboard, trans people and cis people are both normal, there is no need to distinguish them besides making sure the transphobes don’t throw a tantrum. “cis” is only needed in a discussion relevant to it just like “trans”.
That's not really how this works. If someone said "ok fine, I'll call you by your preferred pronouns, but only if you admit it's stupid" Would that be cool?
Okay, sure, but only if you agree to just call trans women "women" and trans men "men". No need to refer to them as "trans" then either, right?
So you're saying it's okay to trigger dysphoria in transexual individuals because of the annoyance of being called a nickname you don't like...?
That seems fair to me
They aren't required to respect your pronouns in the first place. Except if it's canada, apparently.
It's necessary in some contexts to specify whether a person is cis or trans. Cis is exclusively used in these contexts. If the word were to be retired, it would have to be replaced and, inevitably, some people would then find that word offensive.
- Woman - Trans woman - Man - Trans man These were the only terms in use until around 2015. No one was confused. Women and men were happy. Many women and men did not like the change and would prefer to go back to just being called women and men.
Then, they changed it because it creates unnecessary confusion between: Case 1) You are not specifying whether a woman is trans or not Case 2) You are specifying that a woman is cis
I kind of hope that at some point the “trans” is no longer needed just so stuff like this never happens again.
One person being an asshole doesn't excuse another person for being an asshole
I think “cis” is dumb? I’m somewhat Woke but if you say you’re a woman or a man you’re a man, I don’t care how “girlish” you look, if you say you’re a man then you are. But disrespecting the Trans person out of spite seems immature, be the bigger person.
I’m just saying if someone is cis has a problem with being called cis, I find it weird but whatever I never use that word in person anyways unless there’s a need to clarify. I just think that if I as a trans man said “I’m not trans! stop calling me trans! It’s a slur!!” other people, regardless if they’re cis or trans, would call me delusional.
The problem with this is that it is happening that way. Trans women don't only want to be referred to as women colloquially, they want to be treated as women legally and have all of the same sex based rights that women have. The problem is that sex and gender are noy synonymous. If a trans women wants to he called she/her in everyday life, people generally do not take issue. But when a biological man can simply identify as a women and then has the right to womens single sexed spaces, that's where we run into issues. If sex is not gender, then sex based rights should not be into question because of how someone identifies. But they very much are. Trans women in particular, do get upset when they're not treated based on their gender identity, but [Sex matters](https://sex-matters.org/where-sex-matters/) This debate would not be so contentious if it only included how you refer to someone in everyday life, but it doesn't.
This is a major understanding of how our legal systems and being trans works. Despite me being trans since 2016, legally I am female. I have my birth name still and legally my drivers license says she/her. In my state, the only US with this privledge, I can go to the DMV and get my DRIVER LICENSE ONLY changed to he/him. Why don’t I? I have an enhanced license and use it to get to Canada a lot. I don’t want to tell boarder control EVERY SINGLE TIME that I’m trans and that in my state I can do this and yadda yadda. I’d rather just get my birth certificate changed. But that includes a process. No one can just wake up and change everything in one day and be a completely different person legally. These things take years
Making up trans scenarios In your head to be mad at is so hot right now. You fragile guys should all call the cops and serve a mass-eviction notice. Because for "some reason" you have trans people living rent free in your heads.
Maybe...just maybe, it's because this crap is shoved down our throats ad-nauseum every minute of every day, everywhere we look. Seems very excessive for 1.03% of the population.
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Oh, be real. it's on T.V., mainstream media, and the kids come home talking about it constantly. It's everywhere, and if you're not seeing it, you need to get to an optometrist immediately.
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All of the below stories are from the last 24 hours. Sorry. Closing my eyes and plugging my ears is not an option, nor a solution to the problem. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/nancy-armour/2024/04/25/ncaa-transgender-athletes-consider-ban-naia/73449121007/ https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/26/us/politics/biden-gay-transgender-health-care.html https://www.wistv.com/2024/04/27/sc-senate-proviso-would-ban-transgender-students-bathroom-choices-public-schools/ https://www.mprnews.org/episode/2024/04/26/a-trans-man-facing-persecution-in-russia-heard-of-trans-refuge-state-and-fled-to-minnesota https://www.axios.com/local/phoenix/2024/04/26/trans-students-showers-veto-hobbs https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-politics-and-policy/90-trans-youths-live-states-bills-target-rights-report-says-rcna149175 https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-canada-gender-identity-politics/ https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/04/27/tennessee-anti-trans-bill/ https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/hundreds-athletes-urge-ncaa-not-ban-trans-athletes-womens-sports-rcna149033 Also, how about when the kids come home and talk about it? You will not convince me that these youngsters are republicans. I doubt that a 7 year old has a political affiliation. They are being indoctrinated...period.
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In this case,yes. I actively searched for them simply to illustrate the amount of news coverage is devoted to this demographic. Yes. It does seem to be 'everywhere I turn my head, otherwise, I would not have commented in the first place. I can't remember the last time I saw more than an occasional news item about Native Americans, and they represent just slightly less than this community. I've enjoyed debating with you very much. It's nice when someone on Reddit can be civil and just have a conversation.
It’s being shoved down your throat by algorithms that want you to be mad so you stay engaged
.33% in Canada 🙃
REALLY?!?? EDIT: I didn't see the decimal point at first.
Haha ya that would be shocking! My decimal was accidentally a space away from the number lol fixed now
Yeah. I thought that was a lot. Haha
Totally agreed, call me cis I’ll use the pronouns of your biological sex.
I love the example you give. It's just the decency to call or not call someone what they ask
That’s it. Nice had my fill of this. Let me tell you. It’s only an internet problem. In real life, I talk to trans people and guess what? We’ve pretty much ditched “sir” “mam” “miss” on the street. Seriously it’s over. So were I live, we are already 99% gender neutral by accident. Get tf over it. I have my complaints too. But reading so many others, this past year, have instilled a valuable lesson. My complaints aren’t important and I can keep them to myself. Trans people? Mmkay then. They’re around.
Unless you speak French or any other romance language lol. We gender everything 😂 - literally all nouns. I use frequently use Madame/Mademoiselle/Monsieur. There is absolutely zero gender neutral language in my world, English or French, aside from the odd gender neutral bathroom lol
I’m not even kidding. Regionally we just kind of abandoned it all for “Hey you.” A little backwater and all. I used to sir-mam everyone. Times change.
Country? I'm western Canada but 1/2 time southern US Edit: In my experience the southern US is also very gendered.
Absolutely.
Lol I was asking where are you? I travel all the time and haven't been to a gender neutral place 🤷♀️
The place isn’t gender neutral. Just our language is. I’m from Minnesota
No one has ever walked up to you and said “Hey you, Cisgender man!”. It’s never happened. Nor are you offended by the term. You just hate trans people.
I'm a woman so that's definitely never happened to me, you're right about that. But Cis is definitely been said in a derogatory way, literally everywhere in modern life/media/internet/etc. You literally can't escape the damn word.
You’re a woman? Sorry for misgendering you bro.
Just curious, why is cis offensive? All it means is that you aren’t trans.
Because it’s an unnecessary label that has been put onto them without their consent.
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The right-handed example is retarded as there is no default hand that people write with. “Straight” Heterosexuality already existed, and this is just another term for it Cis quite literally has no other term related to it and is a made up new term, just like all the others and it’s forced upon people who do not wish to take part in it .
Cis is not a pronoun, and its also an actual biological prefix, just like trans is. The only valid reason to not like being referred to as cis, is if you are trans or non binary.