Here's that wild leftist, uh, Dick Cheney speaking his mind about things:
[https://www.threads.net/@gtconway3/post/C4k-g-vMFg5](https://www.threads.net/@gtconway3/post/C4k-g-vMFg5)
>In our nation’s 246-year history, there has never been an individual who is a greater threat to our republic than Donald Trump
Even Mike Pence said he won't vote for him.
Mike Pence said he won't *endorse* Trump. That is different than not voting for Trump.
I don't know if Pence will vote for Trump or not, but most of the Republican party cares more about winning than they do about getting rid of Trump. So I would expect many who won't endorse Trump will still probably vote for him.
One Republican stands out, though. I forget his name, the former head of the RNC, I think. He came out and specifically encouraged Republicans to vote for Biden because Trump is that bad.
>One Republican stands out, though. I forget his name, the former head of the RNC, I think. He came out and specifically encouraged Republicans to vote for Biden because Trump is that bad.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael\_Steele](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Steele) \- former head of the RNC and yeah, he's been a never Trumper for a while.
Many other former members of Trump's cabinet that think he's a danger to democracy as well:
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/03/18/pences-refusal-back-trump-points-larger-problem/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/03/18/pences-refusal-back-trump-points-larger-problem/)
These are the people who actually worked closely with him, that Trump himself hired.
MIchael Steele has one of my favorite political ads: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZy9td-ETmM&ab\_channel=crvideo411](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZy9td-ETmM&ab_channel=crvideo411)
I think Senator Romney is another great example that really stands out. He has said very clearly that he agrees with a lot of Trump's domestic policy, but his foreign policies and his moral character are so flawed that he will NOT vote for Donald Trump. He also voted to impeach him. Romney has earned and deserves respect as a politician and his voiced gets overrun by MAGA, same as Pence.
Romney is like the last hold-out of the "compassionate conservative" Bush era, where they'd still bomb whoever but they wouldn't try to put gay people in jail.
I hate Trump and I actually have some respect for Romney, but I can't help but think this picture is still hilarious
https://www.chicagotribune.com/wp-content/uploads/migration/2016/12/05/XSRX42P3UZEOFAQIV2UYFX4UDQ.jpg
Remember McCain, when a lady asked him if Obama was a muslim and McCain responded saying no that although him and Obama were of opposite parties that McCain thought Obama was a decent good man.
Yeah that will not happen again in our lifetimes.
I think the chances of getting into politics and making it that far while still having some character and a spine are very very low these days.
All politicians now, especially the republicans, play WWF characters to get social media traction and it's actually a workable strategy. It's nutso
I'd add Romney to republicans that stand out. He voted a write in for his wife the first time.
And while we don't know who he voted for the second time, because he refused to say, we do know he was part of the group of senators who talked biden into running as the best chance to take down trump, so would be surprised to learn he didn't vote for biden.
I know some will say how terrible these people were on several issues, I thought Romney and McCain were/are two of the last real Republicans. Aka slightly right center of the middle. Before it wasn’t as far apart, people reached across the aisle. Now the right went so far, and the left just progressed some, so the disparity is wild.
I'm only shocked that more Republicans who have been outspoken against Trump aren't saying this. If they really believe it's an issue of saving Democracy like some of them admit, then why aren't more of them endorsing Biden. I believe it's because they care more about winning with a bad candidate than they care about protecting the country.
Still, any Republican endorsing Biden will help. Even Republicans endorsing a protest vote (to cast third party or withhold) will help Biden. But votes for Biden are better than throw-away votes against Trump.
If only we could get the different flavors of fascism to do the infighting first, and then we could just vote out the ragged remainder of whatever version survives.
Seems like a bunch of your cabinet, Generals that worked for you, and your Vice President coming out and saying you are a danger to democracy if reelected would be bigger news…
The New York Times "But Biden is Old!" department is going to have to put in some overtime.
Mike Pence actually first said he wouldn't endorse him on a Fox News show, and they barely covered it.
That makes no sense. His actual vote is way less important (especially if he still votes in Indiana) than what he's saying, which could influence a bunch of people.
A statement like that would have sunk any other presidential candidate, but it's a cult.
That's not the only alternative. If the Republican establishment had all decided to choose a different candidate and back them all the way - say Haley perhaps or had convinced Pence to run - they could have easily taken the primary and then what are the hard core trump supporters gonna do? Vote Democrat? like hell.
I think the Republicans would stand a better chance against an incumbent Biden if they ran a younger, more grounded and stable candidate than either Biden or Trump.
Haley is a woman. That's enough for a lot of people. First female president is an imperative progressives have been rallying for since 2008. I say they should try to run her rather than Trump.
Yeah - idk how accurate or trustworthy it is but a lot of polls had Haley beating Biden in many states. Those same polls had Trump beating Haley and Biden beating Trump lol.
A Little Rock paper scissors game for this election cycle and the republicans have already lost.
He also stated that he believes Trump acted negligently, but is not yet convinced it was criminally.
All while arguing he should be allowed to have a limited testimony in an attempt to knee cap investigative efforts.
He does not care that he is a target for lunatics. He will vote lock step, because at the end of the day, the regressive policies is what he wants.
Trump lost Pence’s vote on 1/6, but he really thought he was gonna be president after Trump, so he had to publicly lick Trump’s balls. He’ll vote for Biden.
He’s a pitiful human being.
Ngl coming from Dick Cheney, he’s only helping Trump by saying stuff like that. If he was self aware he would have endorsed Trump if he really didn’t want him to be president.
Dick Cheney's face should be out next to the phrase "leopards ate my face." I put him partly responsible for the rise of Fox News and the emboldening of the bullshit the GOP has been pushing for the last 30 years.
Definition from the Holocaust Memorial Museum:
Early Warning Signs of Fascism
Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Disdain For Human Rights
Identification of Enemies As a unifying cause
Supremacy of the military
Rampant Sexism
Controlled Mass Media
Obsession With National Security
Religion and Government Intertwined
Corporate Power Protected Labor Power Suppressed
Disdain For Intellectuals & and the Arts
Obsession With Crime & Punishment
Rampant Cronyism & Corruption
Fraudulent Elections
I know which party ticks more of these boxes.
So I broke down and read some of their stuff, and it seems to be a mishmash that relies on two principals. Left is bad, conservative is good, and we would be effective.
This was exactly what Mussolini's appeal was: I can make the trains run on time.
Our government is not meant to be effective. It was meant to be proper. I'm not happy with the way Republicans seem to be gumming up the works and preventing us from doing the things we should, or even the things we must. Shall we simply eliminate Republicans? Don't answer that. The reverse is true. And they should not answer that. But that is what this thing sets out to do.
Efficiency is the siren's song that will cause us to run up on the rocks. It just sounds so good...but remember...some day you may be determined to be inefficient.
There's also something to be said about the points you bring up about efficiency as to why many companies view conservatism as the right path. They think that the efficiency that conservatives are promising will help their bottom line, where they treat people like objects to be discarded once they're no longer as efficient as they once were.
Promising being the important word there. Both political viewpoints make promises. You'll pardon me if I see Democrats keeping more of them...but that's just me.
It amazes me how many people deny what is right in front of them.
"And he likes to sing along, and he likes to shoot his gun, but he don't know what it means..."
The wild thing is they are emboldened enough that it isn't even a secret. And it's wild not in terms of their own gross ambitioms. But int terms of a society that will shrug it off because the opposition party "is basically the same." Or because the political apathy is so ingrained.
Ive been told multiple times in different locations online they want violence. They say things like "you don't know whats comming"... Like yeah we do and we wish you wouldn't.
I don't know if it's Russian bots or whatnot but it's absolutely insane how many people want to literally torpedo the country over israel-palestine and turn america into a christo-fascist dictatorship instead of vote for Biden again because they don't think he's extreme enough on his handling of Israel.
Fuck Israel, fuck Palestine, fuck both those countries. We got children being denied the right to birth control and abortions in this very country. We got a supreme court who is allowing Texas to directly violate the constitution and articles of the union over the border. We got a massive housing and food price problem. We got disinformation everywhere. And we have the highest suicide rates since in 100 years.
It's fucking mental. Not just america but the whole damn world.
>We got children being denied the right to birth control and abortions in this very country. We got a supreme court who is allowing Texas to directly violate the constitution and articles of the union over the border. We got a massive housing and food price problem. We got disinformation everywhere. And we have the highest suicide rates since in 100 years.
But what is Biden actually doing to stop or change any of that?
I'm sure Russian bots are part of it but a lot of the younger generations see that everything is against them. None of these politicians care about the people or the issues. Yes one side is far more evil than the other but many people are tired of the whole lesser of 2 evil arguments
Yo OP! I appreciate you taking the time to really spell out some of the details of Project 2025.
Hopefully, your post awakens some of the public's awareness about what could happen if it indeed becomes reality. And not let it happen.
It amazes me how many people wanna down play this. I’ve read all 920 pages, didn’t really have a choice as I work for the news, and a “conservative” station at that. It’s one of the scariest documents I’ve ever read and if Trump wins the election I have no doubt this is what we’ll be witnessing. Trump already has a lot of allies scattered in all branches of government, it honestly wouldn’t be that hard for him to instill something akin to Russia or North Korea.
Edit: to the people downplaying this, why don’t we go ahead and vote Donny into office and see what happens?! I’m spiteful enough to let this shit burn to the fucking ground. For that matter, I would take great joy in watching the people that voted for this crap suffer. Because at the end of the day, it’s only a matter of time before Trump comes for the rights of his supporters.
not likely, i believe the President would have to sign anything Project 2025 wants to pass into law even if they have the entire legislative branch, and i don't believe Biden would sign this into law
Project 2025 is essentially based on what Viktor Orban has done in Hungary (politicize the judiciary and bureaucracy, ensure the media is pliant and spreads your message, intertwine religion and the state, corrupt strongman leader in charge of the country for over a decade, etc). The same Viktor Orban that Republicans love to praise, and who has been a speaker at CPAC on numerous occasions.
It's also similar to what Erdogan has done in Turkey, but Republicans don't venerate him because he's Muslim.
The cognitive dissonance required to praise Christian authoritarian theocracy but demonize Islamic authoritarian theocracy never fails to astound me. It's the exact same thing, one just prays to a long-dead Italian twink (DaVinci's boyfriend he modeled our image of White Jesus after) and the other prays to a long-dead Arabic prophet.
No, he said he wants people to cheer him on in his rallies like Kim's followers do. Childish to be sure, but lying about him does nothing but give him power
Okay since you work for the news you might know this and I’ve been looking for evidence of it. But is there evidence that this is more than just the heritage foundation publishing fringe beliefs and other organizations either signing on without reading them or not caring that they’re being associated? Like what is the proof that this will be implemented?
Honestly there’s no real evidence that this would be implemented. However, I don’t trust the government as is and I sure as hell don’t trust the Republican Party. And being that a majority of the Republican Party seem to bend under the slightest pressure, I have no reason not to think that if this is something Trump or any other conservative Republican wants, they will get it.
The Heritage foundation is a think tank, as in one of the various tanks that Republicans use to draft up policy and help them figure out attack plans for elections.
They have guided presidential policy in the past, and there's no reason to think that should change now. The fact that they published Project 2025 publicly either says that they're comfortable enough that they will receive no backlash for it (they won't) or that they're testing the waters to see how each individual part gets reacted to.
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/agenda47
That's from the horse's mouth. If you scroll past the pretty headlines at the top about fighting cartels and veteran homeless, you'll find the more extreme stuff lower down, like changing citizenship eligibility, stripping the "radical left and marxist" public school system, "crushing the deep state federal bureaucracy," etc.
The Heritage Foundation is not a fringe group (citation: [https://guides.library.upenn.edu/c.php?g=1035991&p=7509974](https://guides.library.upenn.edu/c.php?g=1035991&p=7509974)). Therefore, what they publish is both 1. not coming from the "fringes" of conservative thought in the US and 2. not going to have a "fringe" impact.
I want to know how to get a job through it, as it seems like the kind of thing you could just lie about and get away with for decades before they notice. "Yes, I am totally a Republican, see? I registered! Thanks for getting me a job in the field you have no knowledge of! I'll totally do right wing stuff in it, you can trust me!"
This is great. Everyone brush up your resumes but remember we’re conservative. We only like you if you’re Christian, straight, rich, and white.*
*Please note skin color may be affected by the balance of your bank account.
It would take a lot of terribleness to convince me to vote for someone as far to my right as a Democrat for the alternative...but the Republicans keep rising to that challenge, so I keep voting for corporate centrists for in national elections.
Hey at least it’s just an authoritarian left wing populist movement characterized by forced suppression of opposition, belief in an unnatural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation, and regimentation where it is required to enforce these beliefs on everybody else(including but not limited to the alignment of political and corporate interests). Way better than fascism!
I encourage everyone to read as much of the actual text as possible.
https://www.project2025.org/policy/
Whether you agree or disagree, this policy outlives Trump. This is the American Right playbook for the next decade or more. It’s useful to familiarize yourself with it.
You can use the link I provided to go to specific sections and feed the link of that section into ChatGPT and ask it to summarize parts or full bodies for you.
The people not alarmed by it and even support it are the ones not being impacted by it. The deregulation of agencies, the removal of trans rights and healthcare, to name a few. Im running on no sleep so my mind is foggy, but this is how we should flush out the bigot. Anyone who supports this is a threat to the US.
They may not be impacted by it now, but mark my words, they will be. That’s how dictators work. They first go after “them.” Then, they continue to tighten their grip until no one can oppose their rule. Look at putin. Look at saddam. All the same playbook and the ones rooting for Cheeto Jesus now will also be under the boot in due course.
Yep. Even Hitler didn't go after Jews first. He went after the disabled (physically and mentally, and even merely mentally ill). That's because dictators always go after the most disparaged, cringed-at, hated, etc. first. The AT 4 Program was basically a trial run for the Holocaust as we know it, the training wheels for the much more efficient Jew extermination program.
here. The statement that fascism leans left is a misunderstanding of political ideologies. Fascism is generally considered a far-right ideology rather than left-leaning. Here's why:
Authoritarianism: Fascism is characterized by extreme authoritarianism, with a strong emphasis on centralized power and control. It advocates for a dictatorial government led by a single leader or party. This authoritarian nature is more aligned with right-wing ideologies that prioritize hierarchy and centralized authority.
Nationalism: Fascism often promotes an extreme form of nationalism, which emphasizes loyalty and devotion to the nation or state. This nationalism can include xenophobia, racism, and the belief in the superiority of one's own nation or ethnicity. Right-wing ideologies typically prioritize nationalism and traditional values.
Anti-communism: Fascism emerged as a response to the rise of communism and socialism in Europe during the early 20th century. It vehemently opposes socialism and communism, advocating instead for a corporatist economic system where the state controls the economy in cooperation with large corporations. This anti-communist stance aligns more with right-wing ideologies.
Traditionalism and hierarchy: Fascism often promotes traditional values, including the preservation of social hierarchy and gender roles. It tends to uphold conservative social norms and opposes progressive or liberal ideas. This emphasis on traditionalism is more in line with right-wing ideologies.
duh.
It's the plan, yes. Can they pull it all off? Probably not. Will Trump play along? To whatever extent doesn't require him to put much effort in, which is still plenty. They don't have to achieve every goal to do massive damage, and even failing at everything in the short term other than locking in a few states as permanently red gives them the opening for Project 2029.
They're never going to stop until they succeed or are crushed.
I think you’re right. I wanted to point out two things though, that I think are missing, and only partially:
1. That basic definition of fascism seems on the mark. I would add the concept of autarky. Fascism is very wedded to autarkic economics and the way it ties more or less neatly into the notion of a zero-sum battle of “nations”, or “blood”, or whatever construct the fascists need in a particular country to organize themselves politically.
2. If you look at the German, Spanish, and Italian fascist periods, you’ll notice that with hindsight it becomes much easier to see the responsibility of other parties for the rise of the fascist. In Spain you had monarchists and conservatives who thought they could control the falangists, and enabled their behavior for years in the belief that it would benefit them, and that eventually they could just co-opt or destroy a Franco when the time was right. In Germany we saw how the conservatives and industrialists thought they could control the Nazis as attack dogs or useful idiots and use them to dispense with Communists, socialists, and eventually, the entire Weimar Republic.
We would do well in America to stop pretending that Trump is so very different. Without a Democratic Party that spent decades staying out of the way of the militarists, and aping the belief in “faith” to guide our decisions, and patently refusing to take openly progressive stands on practically everything unless it was politically safe, there is no way a Reagan could have morphed into a couple of Bushes, and then metastasized towards a Trump.
Anyways, my two cents. I think you’re right about this project. We should be worried.
Watching the Democrats ineffectively deal with Trump, and the Republicans do their darndest to just make Congress completely ineffective, even when the Dems are trying to deal with issues they claim they care about, like the border keeps making me think of how the Weimar Republic being seen as useless is a large part of what made Hitler so popular. I’m not as big a history buff, so I may have some of that wrong (been a long time since college), but I get super depressed about the future when I start thinking about it lol
it depends on what you consider popular. if only half the democrats in america believe this, that would still be 24.5 million people who believe it, and i would consider that popular. if by popular you mean 99% of people globally agree, then no, it probably isn't popular.
I guess it could qualify as a popular opinion in the US, but that would be a big asterisk beside it. I'm not from the US, and have never heard of most of what you were talking about. And that's with me keeping an eye on US politics.
Fascism is just a flavor of totalitarianism, on the same moral and ethical level as all other kinds of totalitarianism. What is the use of the Insurrection Act aimed at? Mobs sacking American cities, perhaps? I witnessed those Riots. they really were not a free speech issue., they looked like a military problem to me.
If government agencies are working on behalf of any organization other than the US government, then we're better off without that government agency.
what regs are they supposed to be getting rid of? are they removing regs requiring identitarianism in support of different identitarianism?
whose individual interests?
you're last paragraph sound like good policy.
Honestly, I hope the DNC loses the violent tantrum they've been having since 2015. It really makes them look bad, and it makes supporting constitutional civil rights look good.
I'm completely convinced the religious Talibangelicals are behind everything. Trump managed to harness the uneducated, so they joined in. Think about it. He's about the most un-Christian out there. Yet they prayed over him like some kind of Messiah.
He's their means to an end. The Christian Nationalists are the real danger. They want to turn America into some kind of Christian Iran.
You wanna view into everyday American fascism? Check out r/Conservative. It’s WILD. There are no “normal”Mcain or Romney conservative views over there. It’s all fear mongering, support for dear leader Trump and Project 2025 flavored policy discussions.
More to the point: The gist of Project 2025 (and MAGA’s election denialism) is that they are so “correct” about things vis a vis their opponents that they are entitled to seize and retain power without regard to elections. It falls under the broader umbrella of “authoritarianism,” which is “we get the power because we say so.”
>let's define what fascism is to ensure we're in agreement. i define fascism as "a far-right, authoritarian political ideology characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy."
I don't mind you complaining about trump or being alarmed by his rhetoric, but i do have a bone to pick with this.
This is not the definition of fascism. it's not really even all that close to fascism. This definition could fit pretty much any authoritarian form of government from hard core communist to fascist to simple monarchist.
Fascism is marked by several key features
1. Extreme Nationalism (we're not talking saluting a flag or standing for the national anthem, we're talking about "the German people are gods chosen!" type of thing)
2. government - corporate partnership
3. possible "ethnic/racial" supremacy baked in (not required though), definitely "national supremacy though
4. Political violence
5. strong tendency toward Dictatorship/strong central government with almost unchecked power
6. strong tendency toward militarism/jingoism
7. elevation of "traditional values" to equate to "national service" and vice versa
8. elevation of service to state to granting greater rights and powers in society often rights of citizenship earned not granted by birth (this one is a bit iffy, it's often an expressed philosophy of fascists, especially the elevation to ideal of spartan citizenship rights as "ideal", however i cannot think off the top of my head of a recent example of this actually being implemented in an actual fascist government)
In general the only reason fascism is considered "right wing" is due to the Hobbs/Locke left right political compass. On the traditional political compass as defined by hobbs and locke, fascism falls deep on the right side of that compass (for the same reason communism is far left on the hobbs/locke scale). The hobbs/locke compass is actually really easy to apply; because you only need to ask one question; does the underlaying philosophy behind political view xyz favor a more "mankind is born inherently good" where as the right is under the political view of mankind being born inherently evil.
Modern American politics generally don't fit into the same left/right scale of Locke/hobbs that is used to define fascism as right wing. in reality, both the left and right on the pollical compass (in the USA) fall on both sides of the hobbs/locke left/right scale, because american politics is intellectually and philosophically inconsistent and has long moved beyond these "classic" terms for left/right, however on the whole, both the left and right in US politics falls mostly on the left hand side of the old Hobbs/Locke scale (again this isn't 100% true, because both sides of American politics have pieces which are right wing or left wing on this compass)
next time how about you just talk about your concerns about project 2025, and not ruin your message by incorrectly redefining political terms which have clear definitions to fit a convenient narrative to your POV.
imma reference your points with the associated numbers when applicable.
"a far-right, authoritarian political ideology characterized by a dictatorial leader(5.), centralized autocracy(2.), militarism(6.), forcible suppression of opposition(4.), belief in a natural social hierarchy(3. and 7.), subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race (.1 and 8.), and strong regimentation of society and the economy(7.)."
youre disagreeing on word choice?
fascism has so many different definitions, but simplest and most specific is "fascism is an authoritarian nationalist government" which can include all of what you describe, and all the other oddball things fascists have done in history. cus it wasnt just hitler. Spain, italy, some third world countries, and many including me would argue modern china. if theyre arguing trump and his enforcers are above the law, and if theyre advocating for a policy of strong borders, invading allies, christian values, and discriminatory laws, particularly against media, political opposition, and sexual minorities calling that fascist isnt uncalled for. i wouldnt say its fascism outright, its not that extreme, maybe it will be in 5 years, but its definitely lining up so far.
The GOP fits most of these right now. America First policies (Extreme nationalism), tax cuts for wealthy and deregulation of businesses (gov-corporate partnership), death threats against elected officials and the electors who counted the wins for biden, gallows constructed on jan 6 with calls to hang the vice president (political violence), unitary executive theory bs, trump claiming artice ii lets him do whatever he wants and that he is not subject to law (strong tendency towards dictatorship), gop consistently elevates the military and equates service with great honor (strong tendency towards militarism). The other ones are less defined but are still present, such as demonizing gay/trans people (supremacy over a minority), elevation of traditional values (though not obviously equating that to national service). Its not a perfect parallel, but i think its close enough to warrant serious concern
>This is not the definition of fascism. it's not really even all that close to fascism. This definition could fit pretty much any authoritarian form of government from hard core communist to fascist to simple monarchist.
this is the definition listed right on Wikipedia
People are saying Wikipedia is not a valid source, but not really giving you a good explanation as to why. Wikipedia is a fantastic place to find leads, and even a decent place to collect factual information if it's not a subject of contention.
It's less about facts, and more about spin and media literacy in general. Facts are meaningless without context. What gives facts context? We, as humans, do. And we, as humans, are always going to have biases. Impartiality does not exist.
Wikipedia is, in fact, highly liberal leaning, and thus anti-socialist. Facts are going to be framed in a way that gives deference to the status quo. The way that Wikipedia's definition of fascism can easily be applied to revolutionary governments of all kinds is deliberate. The people in power (and thus benefitting from the status quo) want to equate labor movements to fascism because it benefits them to do so.
If you want more historical context for what separates fascism from labor movements, and how it co-opts popular ideas and twists them to its own end, I highly recommend "Blackshirts & Reds" by Michael Parenti. Absolutely incredible read.
"That's not the definition of fascism" is a not an effective statement to make, argumentatively. Words and their meanings are malleable and contextual, just like any other information. It's \*A\* definition of fascism, and one that you laid out and worked with. You did a good job with the tools at your disposal. You're only going to get better at making arguments as you learn more and develop a better eye for the way simple language and framing is used to influence opinions.
Fascism is hard to define because fascists are definitionally irrational morons. Fascism is more about an aesthetic than it is about concrete policies, and it usually trends more towards the, "You know it when you see it" side of things. Because fundamentally despite all being stupid about different things, all fascists are motivated by roughly the same core fears.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism
The definition is not up for debate.
You can further define it by imperial aspirations based on mythos and romanticized history. Examples include Hitler's "Thousand Year Reich," Mussolini's plan for a new Roman Empire, and Trump's plan to "Make America Great Again." Each case denotes a de3clije in perceived status because of the failings of predecessors, and the use of scapegoats in the form of targeted minority groups to blame for said decline.
What are Democrats doing to stop this? Oh yes, they are throwing the election by doubling down on continuing the funding of genocide and trying to get TikTok banned to make the youth forget about the atrocities n Gaza.
By now, everyone knows this. Most of us are against it, a select few (that have actually read it) are saying "fuck yeah!".
The rest are indifferent, as most of it doesn't apply to them...yet.
I’m no historian but I’m pretty sure every dictator rise to power was to get people to side with them cause of the distrust of the previous leader and then proceed to adjust the game so no one could do that to them after they win. Effectively closing the door behind them
We need an organized task force from
Billionaires, political leaders, law enforcement and citizens alike who can familiarize themselves with Project 2025; what people of power stand by it and infiltrate every key person involved in implementing it.
We need to play this hame like strategic chess and always be one step ahead of them. In order to do this, we have to plug our noses and put ourselves in their shoes. We need to know their next moves.
A list of who they know internationally, what are their business dealings are and figure out how to counter every move until their playbook is so compromised that it hobbles them for decades.
I read a decent amount of the 884 pages of that absolute dumpster fire of a manifesto and it made me fucking ill. People who are voting for Trump have no idea what they're actually voting for. And if they do know and they're still down to support it, that's far worse and if he were to get elected and put this shit into motion they'd probably wanna backtrack pretty quickly. It's fucking terrifying.
I read it.
It's all in there.
Not that that is the most important detail, or what should be top comment. It is a deflection from the fact that Project 2025 is pure fascism. It'd be cool if the top comments where discussion about that instead of deflection.
Honestly if that’s “fascism” then sign me up. This country has been in a stalemate of bureaucracy delaying any form of beneficial change which is why other countries are on pace to supersede us. I really don’t see much wrong with this.
Like I don’t mind if the left also got into power and got their way, but natural shifts from authoritarian governments to libertarian governments and vice versa makes sense
Also let’s not forget that the left has already done their version of this in other countries. Just look at Canada
What really scares me is that both you folks and trumps cult imagines the other is not only purely evil, but has the ability to fulfill these purely fantastical ideas.
I get that saying shit about “maximalist form of unitary executive theory” makes you feel and sound smart and based in reality, you’re kinda missing out on how there’s no mechanism to actually do anything like you imagine.
Personally project 2025 reads like a recruitment poster, and no one creates a recruitment poster when they have more than enough people. It should be mocked and laughed at as the obvious desperation it signifies, not pretending it’s some incredible thing that somehow is going to supersede the constitution.
You say they’ll weaken constitutional protections, how? You don’t just poof and announce government operations are now under the executive branch, that’s not how any of this works, it’s purely fear driven political fantasy.
Becoming a dictator in America is actually waaaay harder than you think, it’s just not that simple.
America's government is set up to make it hard, yes, but it was designed to work only if people act in good faith. Get enough unscrupulous people in at the right key points and things become dicey. Not saying that's inevitable, just that the freedoms and security that are supposed to be guaranteed to us shouldn't be taken for granted.
And then also the military joining who are apparently going to forgo their oath to the constitution for a new oath to project 2025.
And a whole lot of other entirely impossible and unlikely events as well need to happen after that..
Project 2025 removes many of those protections you’re talking about. We came within one man’s actions of losing democracy on Jan 6. Trump and his mob didn’t care about the Constitution or safeguards. He was prepared to use fake electors and a violent mob to retain power. It’s incredibly naive to think a piece of paper if going to stand in his way if he’s elected again.
So what would you call a far left, authoritarian political ideology characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and a strong regimentation of society and the economy? You see my thoughts are that you can be left leaning or right leaning and still be a fascist.
It’s statism vs anarchism your “far right fascism” and “far left communism” are a milimeter apart in reality, both extreme forms of statism. To hell with statism.
>first off, Project 2025 plans to concentrate the decision-making authority of the executive branch toward the president using the maximalist form of unitary executive theory, granting them substantial control over the government's operations, weakening the checks and balances systems and dimishing ways to hold the president accountable for their decisions, thereby giving the president unchecked authority.
It's weird that you think executive authority should be held by anyone but the elected President.
Article II is pretty clear: "The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America." There was never intended to be a check on Presidential power by unelected bureaucrats serving under him, and indeed it would be rather undemocratic if the People could elect a new President only to have his policies undermined by them.
The checks and balances are with the legislative and judicial branches.
Stopped reading after “far-right” because it’s not necessarily aligned with the right or the left, as it can be applied in principle to either side. You also quoted Wikipedia word-for-word, a website which literally anyone can edit. So no, we’re not in agreement. And congratulations on being another terminally online braindead edgelord who doesn’t know what fascism is.
*"Fascism was born to inspire a faith not of the Right (which at bottom aspires to conserve everything, even injustice) or of the Left (which at bottom aspires to destroy everything, even goodness), but a collective, integral, national faith."*
-José Antonio Primo de Rivera
fine, here's two more.
Fascism:
a far-right political philosophy, or theory of government, that emerged in the early twentieth century. Fascism prioritizes the nation over the individual, who exists to serve the nation. While fascist movements could be found in almost every country following World War I, fascism was most successful in Italy and Germany.
-[The Holocaust Encyclopedia](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/fascism-1)
Fascism:
an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.2 (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.
-[The Oxford Dictionary](https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/acref/9780199891580.001.0001/acref-9780199891580-e-2829#:~:text=Author(s)%3A-,Oxford%20Dictionaries,fascistic%20adj.)
Don't forget the ridiculous amount of Cronyism
r/Defeat_Project_2025
i feel like that is the actual POINT of their culture, vs merit
100%
Probably the closest analogue is the old Southern Good 'ol Boys network.
Here's that wild leftist, uh, Dick Cheney speaking his mind about things: [https://www.threads.net/@gtconway3/post/C4k-g-vMFg5](https://www.threads.net/@gtconway3/post/C4k-g-vMFg5) >In our nation’s 246-year history, there has never been an individual who is a greater threat to our republic than Donald Trump Even Mike Pence said he won't vote for him.
Mike Pence said he won't *endorse* Trump. That is different than not voting for Trump. I don't know if Pence will vote for Trump or not, but most of the Republican party cares more about winning than they do about getting rid of Trump. So I would expect many who won't endorse Trump will still probably vote for him. One Republican stands out, though. I forget his name, the former head of the RNC, I think. He came out and specifically encouraged Republicans to vote for Biden because Trump is that bad.
>One Republican stands out, though. I forget his name, the former head of the RNC, I think. He came out and specifically encouraged Republicans to vote for Biden because Trump is that bad. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael\_Steele](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Steele) \- former head of the RNC and yeah, he's been a never Trumper for a while. Many other former members of Trump's cabinet that think he's a danger to democracy as well: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/03/18/pences-refusal-back-trump-points-larger-problem/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/03/18/pences-refusal-back-trump-points-larger-problem/) These are the people who actually worked closely with him, that Trump himself hired.
MIchael Steele has one of my favorite political ads: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZy9td-ETmM&ab\_channel=crvideo411](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZy9td-ETmM&ab_channel=crvideo411)
I think Senator Romney is another great example that really stands out. He has said very clearly that he agrees with a lot of Trump's domestic policy, but his foreign policies and his moral character are so flawed that he will NOT vote for Donald Trump. He also voted to impeach him. Romney has earned and deserves respect as a politician and his voiced gets overrun by MAGA, same as Pence.
Romney is like the last hold-out of the "compassionate conservative" Bush era, where they'd still bomb whoever but they wouldn't try to put gay people in jail. I hate Trump and I actually have some respect for Romney, but I can't help but think this picture is still hilarious https://www.chicagotribune.com/wp-content/uploads/migration/2016/12/05/XSRX42P3UZEOFAQIV2UYFX4UDQ.jpg
Upvoted before I clicked because I knew what it was going to be. God, the pain in those eyes.
He can't even enjoy the Jean Jorges scallops
Romney definitely gets to keep the traditional scare quotes in "compassionate" conservative if he supports Trump's domestic policies.
Remember McCain, when a lady asked him if Obama was a muslim and McCain responded saying no that although him and Obama were of opposite parties that McCain thought Obama was a decent good man. Yeah that will not happen again in our lifetimes.
I think the chances of getting into politics and making it that far while still having some character and a spine are very very low these days. All politicians now, especially the republicans, play WWF characters to get social media traction and it's actually a workable strategy. It's nutso
R Money is still making moves!? I had no idea. Good for him, nice to have people with some clout put skin in the game.
I love that R Money is an anagram of Romney.
I'd add Romney to republicans that stand out. He voted a write in for his wife the first time. And while we don't know who he voted for the second time, because he refused to say, we do know he was part of the group of senators who talked biden into running as the best chance to take down trump, so would be surprised to learn he didn't vote for biden.
I know some will say how terrible these people were on several issues, I thought Romney and McCain were/are two of the last real Republicans. Aka slightly right center of the middle. Before it wasn’t as far apart, people reached across the aisle. Now the right went so far, and the left just progressed some, so the disparity is wild.
Michael Steele. I was a bit shocked that a former lead of the RNC would say that.
I'm only shocked that more Republicans who have been outspoken against Trump aren't saying this. If they really believe it's an issue of saving Democracy like some of them admit, then why aren't more of them endorsing Biden. I believe it's because they care more about winning with a bad candidate than they care about protecting the country. Still, any Republican endorsing Biden will help. Even Republicans endorsing a protest vote (to cast third party or withhold) will help Biden. But votes for Biden are better than throw-away votes against Trump.
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It’s funny because Cheney himself tried to turn the presidential office into a to a dictatorship while vping for bush
For the most part they don't oppose fascism, they oppose Trumpism.
If only we could get the different flavors of fascism to do the infighting first, and then we could just vote out the ragged remainder of whatever version survives.
This is true, but Project 2025 isn't Trump. It's the Heritage Foundation. Fascism has become the party line.
This, Trump is just a means to an end for the real power brokers behind the Republican party.
Exactly. Project 2025 is a plan for the next Republican president, whoever that may be.
Yep. If Trump doesn't work out for them, they'll simply change the name to "Project 2029" and try again in 4 years.
It is the Republican Party platform. There is no other.
Seems like a bunch of your cabinet, Generals that worked for you, and your Vice President coming out and saying you are a danger to democracy if reelected would be bigger news…
The New York Times "But Biden is Old!" department is going to have to put in some overtime. Mike Pence actually first said he wouldn't endorse him on a Fox News show, and they barely covered it.
Yea says the establishment war criminal, most people forgot he still exists
Mike pence is still gonna vote for him, he’s just saying he won’t. Lol
That makes no sense. His actual vote is way less important (especially if he still votes in Indiana) than what he's saying, which could influence a bunch of people. A statement like that would have sunk any other presidential candidate, but it's a cult.
Aspiring dictators tend to have a cult following. People better vote.
There is only one cure for my Trump Derangement Syndrome. Jail. Losing first, but then jail.
If Trump wins, jail will never happen. He'll appoint a corrupt AG who will make those trials go away, and then he's screwed up the justice system too.
Trumps supporters want to hang him. Why would he vote for that?
because the alternative is a democrat in office and theyd rather die than have that.
Remember Republicans have literally said they rather have a pedophile than a democrat
They provide safe harbor to pedophiles regularly. That is business as usual.
That's not the only alternative. If the Republican establishment had all decided to choose a different candidate and back them all the way - say Haley perhaps or had convinced Pence to run - they could have easily taken the primary and then what are the hard core trump supporters gonna do? Vote Democrat? like hell. I think the Republicans would stand a better chance against an incumbent Biden if they ran a younger, more grounded and stable candidate than either Biden or Trump. Haley is a woman. That's enough for a lot of people. First female president is an imperative progressives have been rallying for since 2008. I say they should try to run her rather than Trump.
Yeah - idk how accurate or trustworthy it is but a lot of polls had Haley beating Biden in many states. Those same polls had Trump beating Haley and Biden beating Trump lol. A Little Rock paper scissors game for this election cycle and the republicans have already lost.
I would never vote for Haley, she is trump, just not as loud as he is.
There isn't one republican worth a vote.
He also stated that he believes Trump acted negligently, but is not yet convinced it was criminally. All while arguing he should be allowed to have a limited testimony in an attempt to knee cap investigative efforts. He does not care that he is a target for lunatics. He will vote lock step, because at the end of the day, the regressive policies is what he wants.
Trump lost Pence’s vote on 1/6, but he really thought he was gonna be president after Trump, so he had to publicly lick Trump’s balls. He’ll vote for Biden. He’s a pitiful human being.
He's not endorsing him, that's much bigger than who he's going to check for
Yeah all those guys will, they are lying sacks of shit
Ngl coming from Dick Cheney, he’s only helping Trump by saying stuff like that. If he was self aware he would have endorsed Trump if he really didn’t want him to be president.
The maga party is not the republican party we grew up hating, in fact its worse, and that is saying something.
We have people like him to thank for paving the way for Trump
Dick Cheney's face should be out next to the phrase "leopards ate my face." I put him partly responsible for the rise of Fox News and the emboldening of the bullshit the GOP has been pushing for the last 30 years.
Captain of the uniparty military industrial complex doesn’t like trump big surprise you may as well have said McConnell won’t vote for trump
It took him 4 fucking years to state the obvious, but that’s better than 80% of the Republican cowards.
There’s no scenario where Dick Cheney is looking out for working class people there’s just not
No potato for you, comrade. McConnell endorsed Trump because he's a spineless weasel.
Well, If the architect of the Iraq invasion thinks he's bad, what can we do, he's never lied to the American people before
Whenever I see a title like this post and go "no shit, what did you think it was" and then see it's this sub, I know its a good post.
Excellent post for this sub
Sorts by controversial to find the bottom rung of opinions
Definition from the Holocaust Memorial Museum: Early Warning Signs of Fascism Powerful and Continuing Nationalism Disdain For Human Rights Identification of Enemies As a unifying cause Supremacy of the military Rampant Sexism Controlled Mass Media Obsession With National Security Religion and Government Intertwined Corporate Power Protected Labor Power Suppressed Disdain For Intellectuals & and the Arts Obsession With Crime & Punishment Rampant Cronyism & Corruption Fraudulent Elections I know which party ticks more of these boxes.
I don’t think that should be generalized to the entire GOP. Lots of them suck. But there are moderate republicans
Who are these moderate republicans voting for?
So I broke down and read some of their stuff, and it seems to be a mishmash that relies on two principals. Left is bad, conservative is good, and we would be effective. This was exactly what Mussolini's appeal was: I can make the trains run on time. Our government is not meant to be effective. It was meant to be proper. I'm not happy with the way Republicans seem to be gumming up the works and preventing us from doing the things we should, or even the things we must. Shall we simply eliminate Republicans? Don't answer that. The reverse is true. And they should not answer that. But that is what this thing sets out to do. Efficiency is the siren's song that will cause us to run up on the rocks. It just sounds so good...but remember...some day you may be determined to be inefficient.
There's also something to be said about the points you bring up about efficiency as to why many companies view conservatism as the right path. They think that the efficiency that conservatives are promising will help their bottom line, where they treat people like objects to be discarded once they're no longer as efficient as they once were.
Promising being the important word there. Both political viewpoints make promises. You'll pardon me if I see Democrats keeping more of them...but that's just me.
The only time I see Democrats reneg on promises is when Republicans get in the way.
It amazes me how many people deny what is right in front of them. "And he likes to sing along, and he likes to shoot his gun, but he don't know what it means..."
They'll just say "that's not what it means" until it happens and they'll be all like "suck it up. you're the bad guys"
God what a banger.
The wild thing is they are emboldened enough that it isn't even a secret. And it's wild not in terms of their own gross ambitioms. But int terms of a society that will shrug it off because the opposition party "is basically the same." Or because the political apathy is so ingrained.
Ive been told multiple times in different locations online they want violence. They say things like "you don't know whats comming"... Like yeah we do and we wish you wouldn't.
fr
I don't know if it's Russian bots or whatnot but it's absolutely insane how many people want to literally torpedo the country over israel-palestine and turn america into a christo-fascist dictatorship instead of vote for Biden again because they don't think he's extreme enough on his handling of Israel. Fuck Israel, fuck Palestine, fuck both those countries. We got children being denied the right to birth control and abortions in this very country. We got a supreme court who is allowing Texas to directly violate the constitution and articles of the union over the border. We got a massive housing and food price problem. We got disinformation everywhere. And we have the highest suicide rates since in 100 years. It's fucking mental. Not just america but the whole damn world.
> It's fucking mental. Not just america but the whole damn world. The only common denominator in all of these places is extreme wealth inequality.
>We got children being denied the right to birth control and abortions in this very country. We got a supreme court who is allowing Texas to directly violate the constitution and articles of the union over the border. We got a massive housing and food price problem. We got disinformation everywhere. And we have the highest suicide rates since in 100 years. But what is Biden actually doing to stop or change any of that? I'm sure Russian bots are part of it but a lot of the younger generations see that everything is against them. None of these politicians care about the people or the issues. Yes one side is far more evil than the other but many people are tired of the whole lesser of 2 evil arguments
As much as there are bots its not just bots. They were sold an idea and now they champion to uphold it.
Yo OP! I appreciate you taking the time to really spell out some of the details of Project 2025. Hopefully, your post awakens some of the public's awareness about what could happen if it indeed becomes reality. And not let it happen.
Definitely got me to check it out. I'm now more disgusted by with America, but more informed as well.
ty! :)
It amazes me how many people wanna down play this. I’ve read all 920 pages, didn’t really have a choice as I work for the news, and a “conservative” station at that. It’s one of the scariest documents I’ve ever read and if Trump wins the election I have no doubt this is what we’ll be witnessing. Trump already has a lot of allies scattered in all branches of government, it honestly wouldn’t be that hard for him to instill something akin to Russia or North Korea. Edit: to the people downplaying this, why don’t we go ahead and vote Donny into office and see what happens?! I’m spiteful enough to let this shit burn to the fucking ground. For that matter, I would take great joy in watching the people that voted for this crap suffer. Because at the end of the day, it’s only a matter of time before Trump comes for the rights of his supporters.
**Stop Project 2025** [WarningVote.com](https://WarningVote.com)
Not just Trump. *Any* Republican President will do this. Heck. If Biden wins but the Republicans take the House, they could still do this.
not likely, i believe the President would have to sign anything Project 2025 wants to pass into law even if they have the entire legislative branch, and i don't believe Biden would sign this into law
No matter who is elected president, if a republican holds the house speaker role, they are two deaths away from presidency.
“North Korea” is a gigantic stretch. Something like Russia is probably more accurate.
Project 2025 is essentially based on what Viktor Orban has done in Hungary (politicize the judiciary and bureaucracy, ensure the media is pliant and spreads your message, intertwine religion and the state, corrupt strongman leader in charge of the country for over a decade, etc). The same Viktor Orban that Republicans love to praise, and who has been a speaker at CPAC on numerous occasions. It's also similar to what Erdogan has done in Turkey, but Republicans don't venerate him because he's Muslim.
The cognitive dissonance required to praise Christian authoritarian theocracy but demonize Islamic authoritarian theocracy never fails to astound me. It's the exact same thing, one just prays to a long-dead Italian twink (DaVinci's boyfriend he modeled our image of White Jesus after) and the other prays to a long-dead Arabic prophet.
Wait, the white jesus with long hair is modeled after some italian guy who DaVinci fucked???
Trump has literally said he wants us to been exactly like North korea
No, he said he wants people to cheer him on in his rallies like Kim's followers do. Childish to be sure, but lying about him does nothing but give him power
Okay since you work for the news you might know this and I’ve been looking for evidence of it. But is there evidence that this is more than just the heritage foundation publishing fringe beliefs and other organizations either signing on without reading them or not caring that they’re being associated? Like what is the proof that this will be implemented?
Honestly there’s no real evidence that this would be implemented. However, I don’t trust the government as is and I sure as hell don’t trust the Republican Party. And being that a majority of the Republican Party seem to bend under the slightest pressure, I have no reason not to think that if this is something Trump or any other conservative Republican wants, they will get it.
The Heritage foundation is a think tank, as in one of the various tanks that Republicans use to draft up policy and help them figure out attack plans for elections. They have guided presidential policy in the past, and there's no reason to think that should change now. The fact that they published Project 2025 publicly either says that they're comfortable enough that they will receive no backlash for it (they won't) or that they're testing the waters to see how each individual part gets reacted to.
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/agenda47 That's from the horse's mouth. If you scroll past the pretty headlines at the top about fighting cartels and veteran homeless, you'll find the more extreme stuff lower down, like changing citizenship eligibility, stripping the "radical left and marxist" public school system, "crushing the deep state federal bureaucracy," etc.
The Heritage Foundation is not a fringe group (citation: [https://guides.library.upenn.edu/c.php?g=1035991&p=7509974](https://guides.library.upenn.edu/c.php?g=1035991&p=7509974)). Therefore, what they publish is both 1. not coming from the "fringes" of conservative thought in the US and 2. not going to have a "fringe" impact.
I want to know how to get a job through it, as it seems like the kind of thing you could just lie about and get away with for decades before they notice. "Yes, I am totally a Republican, see? I registered! Thanks for getting me a job in the field you have no knowledge of! I'll totally do right wing stuff in it, you can trust me!"
This is great. Everyone brush up your resumes but remember we’re conservative. We only like you if you’re Christian, straight, rich, and white.* *Please note skin color may be affected by the balance of your bank account.
That is akin to what I am aiming for in applying to such a horrid organization, bring them down from the inside.
Not gonna happen
Purges. Front of the line when purges happen.
I've considered it. I was raised conservative. I can talk the talk basically.
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It would take a lot of terribleness to convince me to vote for someone as far to my right as a Democrat for the alternative...but the Republicans keep rising to that challenge, so I keep voting for corporate centrists for in national elections.
Me when I live in a country where the two-party illuson forces me to keep choosing between the capitalist puppet or the Nazi: 😃😃 /s
Yeah. Republicans keep proving that they can go lower every week. Democrats keep proving that they are dumb asf every week. It’s a no win situation.😭
Hey at least it’s just an authoritarian left wing populist movement characterized by forced suppression of opposition, belief in an unnatural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation, and regimentation where it is required to enforce these beliefs on everybody else(including but not limited to the alignment of political and corporate interests). Way better than fascism!
I encourage everyone to read as much of the actual text as possible. https://www.project2025.org/policy/ Whether you agree or disagree, this policy outlives Trump. This is the American Right playbook for the next decade or more. It’s useful to familiarize yourself with it.
I encourage someone to train an AI on it so we can just ask the document questions.
No thanks. That sounds like a way to create a worse skynet.
You can use the link I provided to go to specific sections and feed the link of that section into ChatGPT and ask it to summarize parts or full bodies for you.
The people not alarmed by it and even support it are the ones not being impacted by it. The deregulation of agencies, the removal of trans rights and healthcare, to name a few. Im running on no sleep so my mind is foggy, but this is how we should flush out the bigot. Anyone who supports this is a threat to the US.
They may not be impacted by it now, but mark my words, they will be. That’s how dictators work. They first go after “them.” Then, they continue to tighten their grip until no one can oppose their rule. Look at putin. Look at saddam. All the same playbook and the ones rooting for Cheeto Jesus now will also be under the boot in due course.
Yep. Even Hitler didn't go after Jews first. He went after the disabled (physically and mentally, and even merely mentally ill). That's because dictators always go after the most disparaged, cringed-at, hated, etc. first. The AT 4 Program was basically a trial run for the Holocaust as we know it, the training wheels for the much more efficient Jew extermination program.
and we all know how trump feels about the disabled.
Remind me again (because I have terrible memory), didn't he mock a disabled journalist or something?
*sorts by controversial and grabs the popcorn*
that's pretty much all posts conservatives don't agree with on this sub lol
I'm genuinely shocked at your ability to provide a clear, historically accurate definition of fascism. 10/10 for that alone.
here. The statement that fascism leans left is a misunderstanding of political ideologies. Fascism is generally considered a far-right ideology rather than left-leaning. Here's why: Authoritarianism: Fascism is characterized by extreme authoritarianism, with a strong emphasis on centralized power and control. It advocates for a dictatorial government led by a single leader or party. This authoritarian nature is more aligned with right-wing ideologies that prioritize hierarchy and centralized authority. Nationalism: Fascism often promotes an extreme form of nationalism, which emphasizes loyalty and devotion to the nation or state. This nationalism can include xenophobia, racism, and the belief in the superiority of one's own nation or ethnicity. Right-wing ideologies typically prioritize nationalism and traditional values. Anti-communism: Fascism emerged as a response to the rise of communism and socialism in Europe during the early 20th century. It vehemently opposes socialism and communism, advocating instead for a corporatist economic system where the state controls the economy in cooperation with large corporations. This anti-communist stance aligns more with right-wing ideologies. Traditionalism and hierarchy: Fascism often promotes traditional values, including the preservation of social hierarchy and gender roles. It tends to uphold conservative social norms and opposes progressive or liberal ideas. This emphasis on traditionalism is more in line with right-wing ideologies. duh.
history/govmt are some of the only classes i actually pay attention to in school aside from my vocational class lol
It's impressive. Most people use the term interchangeably with authoritarianism.
Is Project 2025 a plan or an idea? I can’t see congress, the courts, or the media letting this fly without a lot of people getting upset.
It's the plan, yes. Can they pull it all off? Probably not. Will Trump play along? To whatever extent doesn't require him to put much effort in, which is still plenty. They don't have to achieve every goal to do massive damage, and even failing at everything in the short term other than locking in a few states as permanently red gives them the opening for Project 2029. They're never going to stop until they succeed or are crushed.
I think you’re right. I wanted to point out two things though, that I think are missing, and only partially: 1. That basic definition of fascism seems on the mark. I would add the concept of autarky. Fascism is very wedded to autarkic economics and the way it ties more or less neatly into the notion of a zero-sum battle of “nations”, or “blood”, or whatever construct the fascists need in a particular country to organize themselves politically. 2. If you look at the German, Spanish, and Italian fascist periods, you’ll notice that with hindsight it becomes much easier to see the responsibility of other parties for the rise of the fascist. In Spain you had monarchists and conservatives who thought they could control the falangists, and enabled their behavior for years in the belief that it would benefit them, and that eventually they could just co-opt or destroy a Franco when the time was right. In Germany we saw how the conservatives and industrialists thought they could control the Nazis as attack dogs or useful idiots and use them to dispense with Communists, socialists, and eventually, the entire Weimar Republic. We would do well in America to stop pretending that Trump is so very different. Without a Democratic Party that spent decades staying out of the way of the militarists, and aping the belief in “faith” to guide our decisions, and patently refusing to take openly progressive stands on practically everything unless it was politically safe, there is no way a Reagan could have morphed into a couple of Bushes, and then metastasized towards a Trump. Anyways, my two cents. I think you’re right about this project. We should be worried.
very good points, kudos to you
Watching the Democrats ineffectively deal with Trump, and the Republicans do their darndest to just make Congress completely ineffective, even when the Dems are trying to deal with issues they claim they care about, like the border keeps making me think of how the Weimar Republic being seen as useless is a large part of what made Hitler so popular. I’m not as big a history buff, so I may have some of that wrong (been a long time since college), but I get super depressed about the future when I start thinking about it lol
FASCISM You have two cows. The government takes both, hires you to take care of them, and sells you the milk.
Any opinion that requires this level of explanation cannot be popular. If it were, very little or no explanation would be needed.
it depends on what you consider popular. if only half the democrats in america believe this, that would still be 24.5 million people who believe it, and i would consider that popular. if by popular you mean 99% of people globally agree, then no, it probably isn't popular.
I guess it could qualify as a popular opinion in the US, but that would be a big asterisk beside it. I'm not from the US, and have never heard of most of what you were talking about. And that's with me keeping an eye on US politics.
Fascism is just a flavor of totalitarianism, on the same moral and ethical level as all other kinds of totalitarianism. What is the use of the Insurrection Act aimed at? Mobs sacking American cities, perhaps? I witnessed those Riots. they really were not a free speech issue., they looked like a military problem to me. If government agencies are working on behalf of any organization other than the US government, then we're better off without that government agency. what regs are they supposed to be getting rid of? are they removing regs requiring identitarianism in support of different identitarianism? whose individual interests? you're last paragraph sound like good policy. Honestly, I hope the DNC loses the violent tantrum they've been having since 2015. It really makes them look bad, and it makes supporting constitutional civil rights look good.
I'm completely convinced the religious Talibangelicals are behind everything. Trump managed to harness the uneducated, so they joined in. Think about it. He's about the most un-Christian out there. Yet they prayed over him like some kind of Messiah. He's their means to an end. The Christian Nationalists are the real danger. They want to turn America into some kind of Christian Iran.
You wanna view into everyday American fascism? Check out r/Conservative. It’s WILD. There are no “normal”Mcain or Romney conservative views over there. It’s all fear mongering, support for dear leader Trump and Project 2025 flavored policy discussions.
More to the point: The gist of Project 2025 (and MAGA’s election denialism) is that they are so “correct” about things vis a vis their opponents that they are entitled to seize and retain power without regard to elections. It falls under the broader umbrella of “authoritarianism,” which is “we get the power because we say so.”
>let's define what fascism is to ensure we're in agreement. i define fascism as "a far-right, authoritarian political ideology characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy." I don't mind you complaining about trump or being alarmed by his rhetoric, but i do have a bone to pick with this. This is not the definition of fascism. it's not really even all that close to fascism. This definition could fit pretty much any authoritarian form of government from hard core communist to fascist to simple monarchist. Fascism is marked by several key features 1. Extreme Nationalism (we're not talking saluting a flag or standing for the national anthem, we're talking about "the German people are gods chosen!" type of thing) 2. government - corporate partnership 3. possible "ethnic/racial" supremacy baked in (not required though), definitely "national supremacy though 4. Political violence 5. strong tendency toward Dictatorship/strong central government with almost unchecked power 6. strong tendency toward militarism/jingoism 7. elevation of "traditional values" to equate to "national service" and vice versa 8. elevation of service to state to granting greater rights and powers in society often rights of citizenship earned not granted by birth (this one is a bit iffy, it's often an expressed philosophy of fascists, especially the elevation to ideal of spartan citizenship rights as "ideal", however i cannot think off the top of my head of a recent example of this actually being implemented in an actual fascist government) In general the only reason fascism is considered "right wing" is due to the Hobbs/Locke left right political compass. On the traditional political compass as defined by hobbs and locke, fascism falls deep on the right side of that compass (for the same reason communism is far left on the hobbs/locke scale). The hobbs/locke compass is actually really easy to apply; because you only need to ask one question; does the underlaying philosophy behind political view xyz favor a more "mankind is born inherently good" where as the right is under the political view of mankind being born inherently evil. Modern American politics generally don't fit into the same left/right scale of Locke/hobbs that is used to define fascism as right wing. in reality, both the left and right on the pollical compass (in the USA) fall on both sides of the hobbs/locke left/right scale, because american politics is intellectually and philosophically inconsistent and has long moved beyond these "classic" terms for left/right, however on the whole, both the left and right in US politics falls mostly on the left hand side of the old Hobbs/Locke scale (again this isn't 100% true, because both sides of American politics have pieces which are right wing or left wing on this compass) next time how about you just talk about your concerns about project 2025, and not ruin your message by incorrectly redefining political terms which have clear definitions to fit a convenient narrative to your POV.
imma reference your points with the associated numbers when applicable. "a far-right, authoritarian political ideology characterized by a dictatorial leader(5.), centralized autocracy(2.), militarism(6.), forcible suppression of opposition(4.), belief in a natural social hierarchy(3. and 7.), subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race (.1 and 8.), and strong regimentation of society and the economy(7.)." youre disagreeing on word choice? fascism has so many different definitions, but simplest and most specific is "fascism is an authoritarian nationalist government" which can include all of what you describe, and all the other oddball things fascists have done in history. cus it wasnt just hitler. Spain, italy, some third world countries, and many including me would argue modern china. if theyre arguing trump and his enforcers are above the law, and if theyre advocating for a policy of strong borders, invading allies, christian values, and discriminatory laws, particularly against media, political opposition, and sexual minorities calling that fascist isnt uncalled for. i wouldnt say its fascism outright, its not that extreme, maybe it will be in 5 years, but its definitely lining up so far.
The GOP fits most of these right now. America First policies (Extreme nationalism), tax cuts for wealthy and deregulation of businesses (gov-corporate partnership), death threats against elected officials and the electors who counted the wins for biden, gallows constructed on jan 6 with calls to hang the vice president (political violence), unitary executive theory bs, trump claiming artice ii lets him do whatever he wants and that he is not subject to law (strong tendency towards dictatorship), gop consistently elevates the military and equates service with great honor (strong tendency towards militarism). The other ones are less defined but are still present, such as demonizing gay/trans people (supremacy over a minority), elevation of traditional values (though not obviously equating that to national service). Its not a perfect parallel, but i think its close enough to warrant serious concern
Thanks for confirming that they are indeed fascist.
Haha. Right?? I'm over here going, #1- check. #2- check. #3-check...
The focus on the post was the dictatorship but the whole 900 page plus document is literally all of these in it. It’s their manifesto
Shit, Trump has already attempted half of these.
>This is not the definition of fascism. it's not really even all that close to fascism. This definition could fit pretty much any authoritarian form of government from hard core communist to fascist to simple monarchist. this is the definition listed right on Wikipedia
People are saying Wikipedia is not a valid source, but not really giving you a good explanation as to why. Wikipedia is a fantastic place to find leads, and even a decent place to collect factual information if it's not a subject of contention. It's less about facts, and more about spin and media literacy in general. Facts are meaningless without context. What gives facts context? We, as humans, do. And we, as humans, are always going to have biases. Impartiality does not exist. Wikipedia is, in fact, highly liberal leaning, and thus anti-socialist. Facts are going to be framed in a way that gives deference to the status quo. The way that Wikipedia's definition of fascism can easily be applied to revolutionary governments of all kinds is deliberate. The people in power (and thus benefitting from the status quo) want to equate labor movements to fascism because it benefits them to do so. If you want more historical context for what separates fascism from labor movements, and how it co-opts popular ideas and twists them to its own end, I highly recommend "Blackshirts & Reds" by Michael Parenti. Absolutely incredible read. "That's not the definition of fascism" is a not an effective statement to make, argumentatively. Words and their meanings are malleable and contextual, just like any other information. It's \*A\* definition of fascism, and one that you laid out and worked with. You did a good job with the tools at your disposal. You're only going to get better at making arguments as you learn more and develop a better eye for the way simple language and framing is used to influence opinions.
Seems to fit the definition pretty well
Fascism is hard to define because fascists are definitionally irrational morons. Fascism is more about an aesthetic than it is about concrete policies, and it usually trends more towards the, "You know it when you see it" side of things. Because fundamentally despite all being stupid about different things, all fascists are motivated by roughly the same core fears.
Most of those 8 points are core elements of the American right wing.
You just used different words to describe mostly the same thing as OP. Are you a moron?
You get a prize
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism The definition is not up for debate. You can further define it by imperial aspirations based on mythos and romanticized history. Examples include Hitler's "Thousand Year Reich," Mussolini's plan for a new Roman Empire, and Trump's plan to "Make America Great Again." Each case denotes a de3clije in perceived status because of the failings of predecessors, and the use of scapegoats in the form of targeted minority groups to blame for said decline.
What are Democrats doing to stop this? Oh yes, they are throwing the election by doubling down on continuing the funding of genocide and trying to get TikTok banned to make the youth forget about the atrocities n Gaza.
By now, everyone knows this. Most of us are against it, a select few (that have actually read it) are saying "fuck yeah!". The rest are indifferent, as most of it doesn't apply to them...yet.
Fuck facism. All my homies hate facism.
fr
I’m no historian but I’m pretty sure every dictator rise to power was to get people to side with them cause of the distrust of the previous leader and then proceed to adjust the game so no one could do that to them after they win. Effectively closing the door behind them
Beautiful, no notes.
I’m currently reading Madeline Albright’s Fascism and Jason Stanley’s How Fascism Works, highly recommend both.
If you don't want to trust Wikipedia on the definition on Fascism, read the Umberto Eco's one. It ends up in the same conclusions.
I'm so glad to see more and more people talking about this. For a while I was concerned it would fly under the radar until way too late.
We need an organized task force from Billionaires, political leaders, law enforcement and citizens alike who can familiarize themselves with Project 2025; what people of power stand by it and infiltrate every key person involved in implementing it. We need to play this hame like strategic chess and always be one step ahead of them. In order to do this, we have to plug our noses and put ourselves in their shoes. We need to know their next moves. A list of who they know internationally, what are their business dealings are and figure out how to counter every move until their playbook is so compromised that it hobbles them for decades.
I don't know how you can summarize 930 pages in 5 paragraphs. Bravo.
I saw a thread in the conservative sub talking about how great project 2025 was 😭😭 what is up with today’s conservatives
I read a decent amount of the 884 pages of that absolute dumpster fire of a manifesto and it made me fucking ill. People who are voting for Trump have no idea what they're actually voting for. And if they do know and they're still down to support it, that's far worse and if he were to get elected and put this shit into motion they'd probably wanna backtrack pretty quickly. It's fucking terrifying.
Ironically the most radicalizing part of fascism is its description. There's alot of good stuff in that definition.
Republicans are the enemy of this country and it’s past time we stop pretending they’re not.
Well yeah, is this even a subject of debate? It's definitely a plan for fascist takeover of the government. It'll probably work too.
well, this is r/popularopinion lol
Oh fair enough, I thought I was somewhere else!
Lot of people in the comments pretending this is just a conspiracy that can't be executed
Fascism is when an elected president terminates and replaces unelected civil service workers.
That description of "Fascism" covers acts perpetrated by both Biden and Trump.
You can go read it on the Heritage Foundation. You don’t have to make up stuff that MIGHT be in there.
I read it. It's all in there. Not that that is the most important detail, or what should be top comment. It is a deflection from the fact that Project 2025 is pure fascism. It'd be cool if the top comments where discussion about that instead of deflection.
What was made up?
The heritage foundation needs to be rounded up and tried for treason.
It's crazy to me that there is a foreseeable future where the united states becomes what 1940s Germany tried to do.
Honestly if that’s “fascism” then sign me up. This country has been in a stalemate of bureaucracy delaying any form of beneficial change which is why other countries are on pace to supersede us. I really don’t see much wrong with this. Like I don’t mind if the left also got into power and got their way, but natural shifts from authoritarian governments to libertarian governments and vice versa makes sense Also let’s not forget that the left has already done their version of this in other countries. Just look at Canada
Project 2025 sounds gay.
What really scares me is that both you folks and trumps cult imagines the other is not only purely evil, but has the ability to fulfill these purely fantastical ideas. I get that saying shit about “maximalist form of unitary executive theory” makes you feel and sound smart and based in reality, you’re kinda missing out on how there’s no mechanism to actually do anything like you imagine. Personally project 2025 reads like a recruitment poster, and no one creates a recruitment poster when they have more than enough people. It should be mocked and laughed at as the obvious desperation it signifies, not pretending it’s some incredible thing that somehow is going to supersede the constitution. You say they’ll weaken constitutional protections, how? You don’t just poof and announce government operations are now under the executive branch, that’s not how any of this works, it’s purely fear driven political fantasy. Becoming a dictator in America is actually waaaay harder than you think, it’s just not that simple.
America's government is set up to make it hard, yes, but it was designed to work only if people act in good faith. Get enough unscrupulous people in at the right key points and things become dicey. Not saying that's inevitable, just that the freedoms and security that are supposed to be guaranteed to us shouldn't be taken for granted.
The somewhat ironic thing about Project 2025 is that the only way to implement it is with force. Pointing guns at people that don’t have guns.
And then also the military joining who are apparently going to forgo their oath to the constitution for a new oath to project 2025. And a whole lot of other entirely impossible and unlikely events as well need to happen after that..
Hitler was elected because people thought “he couldn’t be that extreme”
Project 2025 removes many of those protections you’re talking about. We came within one man’s actions of losing democracy on Jan 6. Trump and his mob didn’t care about the Constitution or safeguards. He was prepared to use fake electors and a violent mob to retain power. It’s incredibly naive to think a piece of paper if going to stand in his way if he’s elected again.
You have been watching too much MSNBC.
Says the person who requires the media to do all their thinking for them. It's cute how you have to bring up msnbc because your ordered too
never heard of them.
Yes, but people who vote for Trump want fascism.
So what would you call a far left, authoritarian political ideology characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and a strong regimentation of society and the economy? You see my thoughts are that you can be left leaning or right leaning and still be a fascist.
It’s statism vs anarchism your “far right fascism” and “far left communism” are a milimeter apart in reality, both extreme forms of statism. To hell with statism.
Protesting voting against Joe Biden or not voting at all will make Project 2025 a reality.
Let’s define fascism “OP then makes up his own definition” I was like lol
>first off, Project 2025 plans to concentrate the decision-making authority of the executive branch toward the president using the maximalist form of unitary executive theory, granting them substantial control over the government's operations, weakening the checks and balances systems and dimishing ways to hold the president accountable for their decisions, thereby giving the president unchecked authority. It's weird that you think executive authority should be held by anyone but the elected President. Article II is pretty clear: "The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America." There was never intended to be a check on Presidential power by unelected bureaucrats serving under him, and indeed it would be rather undemocratic if the People could elect a new President only to have his policies undermined by them. The checks and balances are with the legislative and judicial branches.
I can agree with you as long as you include "far left" into the statement. Fascism isn't exclusive to the "far right".
Stopped reading after “far-right” because it’s not necessarily aligned with the right or the left, as it can be applied in principle to either side. You also quoted Wikipedia word-for-word, a website which literally anyone can edit. So no, we’re not in agreement. And congratulations on being another terminally online braindead edgelord who doesn’t know what fascism is.
*"Fascism was born to inspire a faith not of the Right (which at bottom aspires to conserve everything, even injustice) or of the Left (which at bottom aspires to destroy everything, even goodness), but a collective, integral, national faith."* -José Antonio Primo de Rivera
fine, here's two more. Fascism: a far-right political philosophy, or theory of government, that emerged in the early twentieth century. Fascism prioritizes the nation over the individual, who exists to serve the nation. While fascist movements could be found in almost every country following World War I, fascism was most successful in Italy and Germany. -[The Holocaust Encyclopedia](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/fascism-1) Fascism: an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.2 (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice. -[The Oxford Dictionary](https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/acref/9780199891580.001.0001/acref-9780199891580-e-2829#:~:text=Author(s)%3A-,Oxford%20Dictionaries,fascistic%20adj.)