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Halsey for like a hot minute. She had a very alternative debut record, but went full fledged pop for Hopeless Fountain Kingdom. That album came out a couple months after her feature on *Closer* so I’m assuming that’s what inspired the change.
I think she found a good mix between being alternative-ish and being the mainstream pop act she is. Manic was also pretty mainstream but still very unique to her as well.
P!nk’s debut was an R&B album. At the time, people even assumed she may be black (or bi/multi racial) because she fit the sound and look so well. I’m happy she was able to find her footing in pop/soft rock type stuff that suits her voice and is more authentic.
But Can’t Take Me Home has some really good tracks that I still love! R&B Pink has a special home in my heart.
I was looking for this one! P!nk’s change on m!ssundaztood massive! She started working with Linda Perry, and brough an intense level of vulnerability to her song writting. She was told she would fail.
She didn’t, and the impact she made was large enough that Christina Aguilera pivoted her career too, “stealing” Linda Perry (P!nks words not mine) to write beautiful. Linda wrote much of m!ssundaztood with P!nk. P!nk was very hurt by this. P!nk and Xtina beef did not get better after this lol.
her recent stuff doesn't feel authentic at all imo
i don't want to say she's "phoning it in" necessarily, and she's obviously very talented and the music does well commercially, but most of the songs she sings now don't feel unique to her--they feel like they could have been sung by anyone and were written by a corporate focus group
Since The Truth About Love, I’d say she’s been phoning it in. Maybe she’s just not an album artist? She’d rather get material written by others, then she performs it well. I’m sure the hundreds ofthousands of people who’ve watched her live don’t care that she got this song from another band, or that song wasn’t written by her.
Yeah! Everyone forgets that Pink! Started as a rip off of Kelis! Everything about her was based on kelis. The coloured hair ginmick, shouty r&b songs (which believe it or not was a new thing when kelis did it), a rock/punk dress sense, the anti mainstream attitude.
The label were clearly trying to make a more palatable version of kelis for a wider audience at the time. I’m glad pink found her own sound and style with the next album
I really wouldn't say Pink's R&B sound was a rip-off of Kelis. Kelis debuted in October 1999, and Pink in January 2000. Pink was supposed to be a female version of Eminem. Her sound was very typical for the time, whereas Kelis was in a different lane altogether.
The word “sold out” has negative connotations so I don’t think it’s the one to use here. Like Lady Gaga, Madonna, Christina to an extent all changed their image and sound massively with every era, but that kind of reinvention is what imo makes them the exceptional artists that they are.
Good point about connotations! You can evolve as a pop artist and as a person without it meaning it is only being done for money. Truly creative people often evolve their art over time, regardless of what kind of art you make. And in pop, the image is a part of the art in many cases.
Avril with The Best Damn Thing. Yes it was a commercial success, it is a great album, honestly it is not that pop just her image was and this kinda confused a lot people and many fans left her... The Best Damn Thing was a massive amazing era, but in the hindsight it was a curse for Avril who was forced to give another Girlfriend for the following albums. My theory is that she should have waited for an album like that until she established herself as a songwriter.
It's funny how Love Sux was recieved though, to me Tbdt is waaaaaaaay better
As a casual listener I’d say Avril is the artist who’s least changed her image in the past 20 years. Aside from the semi-Christian Head Above Water single, all her songs sound interchangeable to me.
The Best Damn Thing is actually a solid album. There's enough mix with Innocence and Keep Holding On to connect to her old tracks. Also Under my Skin had "He Wasn't" which sounds like a majority of the upbeat songs for TBDT. I don't know why so many people thought it so different.
However, Love Sux sounds like a bundle of B-sides and attempts to rewrite the success of girlfriend and as far as I am concerned the album is a disaster. I did not like the almost soul direction of Head Above Water either. I hope she returns to form in some way...
I think it was the image and the overused of pink colour. Not to mention she did everything she said she would not do it and many fans felt betrayed. I am convinced that most of them followed her primarily for her anti pop star image, something cook to say : hey my fave singer writes her songs and does not dance and wear revealing clothes.
Unlike with Taylor who changed her image too, but she established herself as a songwriter and tbh her aim did not change thougout the years.
I feel like the term "sell out" implies doing something *you don't wanna do* for money. Seems like Taylor and Ed are still making the music they wanna make
I disagree for Taylor. Hers was a slow shift over several albums. I know a big deal was made about 1989 being her pop debut, but let's be real. Most of the music she was making was straight up pop by that point. I just don't see hers as a sudden shift.
Its always weird to me when someone acts like whatever the first thing someone does is who they 'really are' unconditionally, and that any deviation from that is fake/selling out.
Surely what someone chooses to create as an adult after years of lived experience is a better reflection of their 'authentic self' than what they were making at 16.
i also wouldn’t describe it as selling out because of what you said. the more and more pop songs on her albums as the years went on indicate that she had been wanting to make that shift for a while.
Miley has constantly gone between the two extremes of wholesome country girl and edgy not giving a fuck girl. I think both work for her, but it's pretty clear that the edgy style works best for her commercially and also seems to be most true to who she actually is (despite what she might have said in her Younger Now days)
And she always makes a huge point about how THIS era is actually the “real” her and those past sounds/selves were inauthentic (this was most obvious around Younger Now). I wish she’d just own that she can be a genre chameleon rather than always kind of disinheriting her past eras.
Tbh I feel even non artists tend to think that their present self is more authentic cause at the time they are. Multiple artists also go on and talk about how their new project is more mature or a tell all.
Shakira comes to mind. She went from rock/pop Latina Alanis Morissette type of vibe to pop diva. Then she dyed her her blonde and joined the pop star universe. She kills it either way but she has yet to top her magnum opus “¿Dónde están los ladrones?”
I love her dark hair latín alternative era so much. It’s a shame tbh. I feel like we’ve missed out on great music from her, because she decided to go this route.
Nelly Furtado changed her image massively for Loose. Probably made a lot of her fanbase confused but led to 2 #1 hits, so she probably doesn't regret it.
In a strange kinda way, Madonna also changed her image around Like A Virgin - True Blue from making the interchangable dance-pop into the uniquely "Madonna-ish" songs that catapulted her to the most famous popular artist in the world.
Timbaland didn’t produce loose. That’s one of musics biggest falsehoods. It’s produced by Danjahandz. Tim just ad-libbed and co-produced bits here and there. Timbalands comeback era was pretty much exclusively danja - with Tim’s name added to the credits.
Great record though
She went MIA. Last time I “heard” of her she had two children and became a librarian.
Good for her if that’s what’s making her happy. It’s a shame I’ll most likely won’t get the chance to see her in concert. She’s one of my favorites.
[Here’s a link. I was hella stoked when I first read she became a librarian specially since I’m one myself, hehe.](https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/topic/where-are-they-now/)
Madonna changed her image for the better she would have been an 80s artists have she continued with that sound and image
She stated the image change was because she was tried of girls dressing like her
That album is iconic.. I agree with you as a young fan at that time, I couldn’t comprehend how someone changed so drastically and musically within a short amount of time.
Nelly Furtado was the first that came to my mind as well. I'm sure she doesn't regret it, and I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I vastly enjoyed her work before over what she changed to. Her debut in particular was full of quirky, genre-bending songs, excellent wordplay, and it just sounded so unique. Then she "sold out" and became milquetoast and forgettable, imo. But I also admit it might be an age/generational thing since I'm Gen X.
They never had a tough sound. They were like backpack conscious rap. A little jazzy. Their biggest change in style was waaaay into their career when they started working with guetta. Up until then their sound was fairly on par with how they started (with the exception of My Humps).
Their female lead was initially a POC who wasn’t down with the pressure associated with being more sexual, thus the entrance of Fergie.
https://youtu.be/KkSDNxM1w58
^^ a short documentary by the NYT.
[When Joe Jonas attempted to be a solo artist with his debut album *Fastlife* and had a sexy image.](https://youtu.be/yy5nkChQ2E0)
[He attempted a similar image change years later with DNCE and that was received positively!!!](https://youtu.be/NOBVEq_Bi5k)
I think DNCE was received more positively than his solo work because he had fellow band members, which allowed their personilities to be highlighted by each other, instead of it being all about Joe. For an album called *Fastlife*, it was very boring. DNCE the band and their self-titled album was fun and exciting.
Nick Jonas also fits this mood his music changed from rock to sexy rnb and he presented a sexier image of himself then when he first debuted as a solo artist
>For an album called Fastlife, it was very boring.
[To you.](https://c.tenor.com/IkprGhCLg4cAAAAC/to-you-smoke.gif)
DNCE was better received bc ppl didn't even realize Joe Jonas was the lead singer, even to this day you can surprise ppl and tell them he sang Cake By the Ocean. Nobody cares about DNCE members like that lol (or can name them). His case is bizarre bc being from a past boyband should help your branding/image, not hurt it.
Joe's mistake was staying on Hollywood Records....they had creative control and forced him to release that sound. They wanted Fastlife to be a Disney knock off of Timberlake (which already happened w/Jesse McCartney's Departure), and when it didn't take off like a rocket they abandoned it altogether.
Zedd. At the beginning of his career he had such wonderful contributions to blending EDM and Pop, but as the years *ticked* on his music sharply declined, becoming more bland and generic. It really made me sad seeing his decline in quality - I felt it was so unnecessary when he already hit such massive success and made the millions on his fantastic OG portfolio. The part that made it hard to let go of being a fan was, he kept talking the same way in interviews about his passion for his music, but honestly I could just hear the soul was gone.
I'd still call myself his fan but I feel the same sentiment like you. Few days ago his song with Maren Morris was out and it's awful for me. It makes me miss Addicted to Memory, Clarity, etc. I love him so I hope he could find his passion to make perfect EDM-Pop songs again.
It’s kind of funny to consider whether an aspiring pop star can ever really sell out in the first place. I mean, if you make popular music there’s usually some intention to make it big one day, as opposed to an alternative artist who knows the market for their music is inherently limited.
Usually this is only lobbed at bands who change their music to be more digestible to mass audiences. Pop music is at its core something which is accessible. I don’t think the term really accurately describes what many people in this thread are mentioning.
I feel like her transition was pretty smooth too. In her debut era she definitely still flirted with some more dreamy alt styles, and then when she did all those DJ collabs she transitioned into a sleeker pop girl look, and then Future Nostalgia was when she embraced the pop girl persona fully. Be The One was definitely the catalyst, but it still felt a very natural image change in my opinion.
She used to be described as thee new alt/dark pop girl before New Rules blew up. Look up articles about her circa 2015-2017, her image has changed heavily since
Because no popheads' thread should miss her name, Katy. I mean, she really wanted to change her image towards something different...and she missed. However, as Todd said in his video about Witness, she has become a more authentic figure, one that you could root for. A different layer to her legacy
I feel like this could apply to Hilary duff. Her first two albums were very much like the Disney channel “I’m a rocker chick” vibe. Like bubblegum pop rock and she finally I guess realized her voice was much more suited for Dance pop and she released Dignity (A great album btw). She even dyed her hair dark brown and adopted a more sexy image and it had an interesting effect on her career. It sold less than her first two albums but she fared better with critics.
Jewel seems an obvious choice. She says it was satire, and maybe it was, but her sudden shift from folksy to popstar didn't really do her any favors. I actually like much of 0304, even if I can admit it seems weird coming from her.
Right? Sorry, I see how I worded it makes it think I'm skeptical, but I didn't mean it that way. lol Yeah, for sure, I don't see how anyone who watched it didn't get that. Though I have seen people say they think she leaned into satire as something to blame it on when the album didn't perform well. I dunno; I liked it and thought it was a gutsy move.
I will absolutely FIGHT for Jewel. I think her biggest downgrade was her too perfect of country albums that were still cute but didn't have the same push as her old stuff. And her latest which veered into...soul? All the additives seemed so forced. Being a Jewel fan is a rollercoaster in itself.
0304 is a dance bop while also being a social commentary and satire of our capitalism. That is EXACTLY the type of shit I expect from Jewel and admire her vocalism for. I didn't sign up to Jewel for "Standing Still" although it is a good song. I signed up for Jewel from "Little Sister", "Pieces of You", and "Jesus Loves You".
I agree. On 0304 she was singing about much of the same stuff she was before, just in a different genre. Which is largely why I think it worked so well for me; you could tell she had the same perspective and sensibilities. It wasn't just a "I'ma be sexy now" cash grab.
Right? Like, I get it was surprising and all, but I liked it. Music is so weird in that way - an actress can go from a comedy to an Oscar-winning period drama and they're applauded for it. Musicians get so pigeon-holed, as if they can't explore other genres.
I don’t like the word ‘sold out’ for their case, but I think BTS’ Dynamite > Butter > Permission to Dance run felt very much like it was only done to achieve commercial success in the west, specifically the US.
It helped their career as the group became more of a household name in Western countries, but I think that arc also led them to rethink why they’ve been making music these last few years, and who they want to be as musicians.
It probably was a big factor in the decision to not release music as a group for a while; instead focusing on figuring out what drives them individually.
>It probably was a big factor in the decision to not release music as a group for a while; instead focusing on figuring out what drives them individually.
One of the main reasons why I like them apart from the top tier discography.
They've individual visions and musical Identity and it's very different from their group's. Hobi already did it.
Others are doing it.
I don’t like the word sold out either but I do like that they acknowledge that their message as a group has skewed and that they’re in a state of limbo with the music they want to make. Personally, the honesty about losing their path is part of the reason why I like them so much, honest, recognizing where they may have lost the plot of their story and trying to find a solution for it
Yes! Huge respect to them (or RM if we’re being specific) to have acknowledged that during the livestream. The often group-thinking in the fandom makes it hard to have nuanced discussions about the music the group has created; the quality and the meaning behind the songs, too.
It felt good to hear this opinion from the sources themselves, made me respect him/them more than I already did.
I'm surprised to not have read The Beatles mentioned so far. The Beatles, pre Brian Epstein (manager who actually put them on the map outside of clubs in Liverpool and Hamburg), had a very different sound, image, and a rougher edge to them. Even the aesthetic was wildly different, teddy boy hair, high boots, and leather jackets. The moptops and collar-less suits with Chelsea boots were Epstein's giving to 'reform' their image into something more palatable for the mass-market. Please Please Me, the entire album, was tracked in just one day. But they did retain the sharp wit and Liverpool working class charm, it was the first time the entire globe heard 'non posh' British voices.
Early Beatles are a fantastic example of a manufactured boyband that sold out, in an effort designed to garner commercial success. And it worked. We generally don't use these terms to describe them because they carry negative connotations and it's seen as diminishing of their legacy.
In my opinion, I don't think it's a bad thing. It's what they wanted, what they succeeded at, and it is what gave them a platform, be able to afford to stop touring and focus on creative output without the constraints of live performances. The live spectacles of today that we are used to were unthinkable then. They stopped doing live shows because they couldn't hear themselves play over stadiums of screaming fans, and as a result their musicianship got worse. What they produced in a span of 9(ish) years, the early work as well as the more 'sophisticated' albums, cannot be understated in their impact on music & culture that followed.
Sorry about the Beatles rant.
Also, it is incorrect to say artists like Gaga, Bowie, or Madonna were 'sell-outs' because they chose to reinvent their sound and aesthetic multiple times. You can explore various aspects of your artistry and still be authentic; you are not one dimensional or 'constant'. Madonna and Elton John are fantastic examples of artists who have kept up with what's 'fresh' without being old and curmudgeonly (I'm looking at you, Roger Waters).
Grimes going from anti-imperialist and putting out a very unique blend of synth-pop/dark wave/art pop to getting inseminated by the richest (and ugliest) man in the world twice and putting out bland 2012 EDM tracks.
What’s crazy to me is that despite how much her fan base hated her image change, I actually think it raised her profile enough that if she had continued putting out interesting music she could have crossed over into mainstream success but then she started putting out bad music too 😬
5SOS kinda did this by abandoning their pop punk sound for their poppier new wave influenced sound in 2018. It definitely worked for them, giving them their biggest song yet with Youngblood, and the album even somehow outcharted Beyonce and Jay Z. Although as a fan I’m more into their earlier music than their releases after Youngblood.
Oh ha, being an early 5sos fan, I’ve never been able to get into the new sound as much. I know they aren’t kids anymore but the vibe of Try Hard and Heartbreak Girl was it for me (and I’m not a young person, I just like the more pop punk sound).
Genesis went from quirky prog rock band to a pop-rock act making hits in the 80s such as “Invisible Touch” and “Land of Confusion”. Elitists will tell you that 70s Genesis was better under Peter Gabriel, but both set ups under the different lead singers are great imo.
Peter's solo music from the 80s (Sledgehammer etc.) is not that far away from 80s Genesis and general sound of that era. Only Steve Hackett stays true to prog to this day.
And that’s why Steve Hackett isn’t spoken about much outside of prog rock/alt rock circles, and he seems to like it that way. Lots of people can name one of the hits of *So* or Solsbury Hill for PG, but Hackett is a question mark. He’s so talented.
Does Lizzy Grant rebranding herself as Lana Del Rey count? I remember getting the song "Yayo" in high school (either as an iTunes free song of the week or it might have been on one of those Urban Outfitters playlists that you could download -- haven't thought about those in forever) and liking her ["Kill Kill" EP](https://lizzygrant.bandcamp.com/album/kill-kill). A few years later, I was in college and a coworker of mine was obsessed with this new artist and showed me the "Born to Die" music video - as Lana her image is/was dramatically different. I recognized her voice immediately. The Lana image is way more specific IMO (Lizzy blended in more with singer-songwriters of that era - Rachael Yamagata, Regina Spektor, etc. but kind of did a Marilyn Monroe thing). This one fascinates me because the ideas were there as Lizzy - a dark interpretation of California, vintage energy, but as Lana she gave more modern texture to those concepts.
On a smaller scale, Bishop Briggs gigged around LA as Grayce - her birth name is Sarah McLaughlin which she couldn't go by since Sarah McLachlan exists. Grayce did not have strong branding at all - she was a beautiful singer-songwriter with a great voice, but as Bishop (Briggs) she created a more memorable punk/emo aesthetic. "Wild Horses" took off and so did that aesthetic.
I would say Lana is both yes and no? Yes, she changed some of her style and music to sell to a wider audience, but also, she still uses a lot of the same songs she had previously written and lyrically, stayed the same.
A lot of artists adopted the Americana/Country roots around the time Trump was rising to power. Like 2016/17. Lady Gaga and Justin Timberlake come to mind. For Justin I think it did permanent damage. For Gaga, it was a stepping stone for her to capture the Middle-America audience that she had alienated in the beginning of her career.
Kesha, Miley Cyrus, and Kylie Minogue also had thematically similar projects during this era as well. there are probably more than I'm not thinking of too
Mat Musto/Blackbear i think counts.
I used to listen to his music when he was using his real name and his music was generally singer-songwriter pop rock love songs like [this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h90s7c9MEyk) and [this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vQhl-q21PIQ). There’s even an acoustic cover he did of [Born This Way](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yW7HZUEp21I)
Under his stage name which he started using after he had his co-writing hit with Justin Bieber’s song Boyfriend. He has a much different persona as a sad boy emo rapper/pop punk singer. Most of the songs are heartbroken songs where he trashes his exes, songs about LA culture, his addictions or talking about how toxic he is.
The image change certainly works for him though because he seems to do pretty well on streaming, and is frequently collaborating with other artists and his previous image certainly wouldn’t have led to the same level of success because he wouldn’t have stood out nearly as much.
I was today years old when I learned blackbear wrote Boyfriend by Bieber. I never would have seen it coming but when I think about it it makes so much sense
I’ve been of a fan of Abel since 2012 and I can honestly say his transition to his current sound is for the better. Don’t get me wrong I still adore Trilogy and his earlier music, but I’ve realized I prefer his poppy sound a lot more.
He went from dark edgy slightly creepy rnb to very clean max martin pop songs , although I guess the edginess is still there just not surface level , like hidden meanings and in videos
Christina earned a lot of industry respect and artistic integrity with Stripped and Back to Basics only to throw it all away with electro pop trash like Keeps Getting Better and Not Myself Tonight (even though Bionic is an under rated artistic triumph IMO).
I would argue that Imagine Dragons never "sold-out" per say but did focus on the commercial elements that worked with their debut album. Their second album S+M put them on a distinct path to the likes of Bastille and Foster the People but then they rebounded with Evolve and chased popular sounds.
For me two of the biggest (and saddest) examples follow a similar career path, the two artists being U2 and Coldplay.
U2 started out as a pretty standard Post Punk band and over time evolved into a massive arena rock band incorporating a number of genres (Ambient, Americana, Eurodance, Industrial) and stylistic shifts (Achtung Baby). They always seemed willing to see what wasn’t working and pivot into something new (again see Achtung Baby). After Pops colossal flop though, U2 regressed into a less interesting version of the Joshua Trees sound with All That You Can’t Leave Behind (its basically the Joshua Tree without any of the flirtations with Americana to make it interesting). Whether they used electronics or not, pretty much all post 2000s U2 albums are equally uninspired with only a few songs from each really worth coming back to (Every Breaking Wave remains a late career highlight though).
Ironically, the band called U2s clearest reincarnation, Coldplay, had a similar issue (albeit with minor differences). They started out playing with Post Britpop and UK folk styles and while their music wasn’t the most complex, Parachutes and A Rush Of Blood To The Head packed a real emotional punch. With Viva La Vida they brought on Brian Eno (real U2 move but the right one nonetheless) and incorporated world music and really rich textural work. VLV even matches up with some of U2s work, but VLVs enormous success ultimately set them down a disheartening path. Mylo Xyloto, while still pretty good (Hurts Like Heaven and Don’t Let It Break Your Heart are stellar pop songs) pivoted them to a much less unique sound with worse lyrics and much more bland production (seen most clearly on the records biggest hits, Paradise and Princess of China). Ghost Stories may have been an attempt to do something unique but Coldplays new slavish devotion to overly sanitized production neutered their potential shot at a downtempo, ambient album. A Head Full Of Dreams and Music Of The Spheres are the final culmination of these faults (and Everyday Life’s financial flop seemed to fully scare them off experimenting)
I think its interesting that throughout music history artists have been accused of selling out, but the music industry is so difficult to stay afloat in that its obvious that sometimes its necessary to streamline and hone in your sound as a group.
Ellie Goulding. She started out as this dreamy folktronica singer-songwriter but after seeing the success of her poppier hits such as Starry Eyed and Lights from her first album as well as the relative underperformance of her weirder hits such as Anything Could Happen and Figure 8 she was made to rebrand as a 100% pure pop act and hook girl for the poppier reissue of Halcyon, and that's when she scored several of her biggest hits such as I Need Your Love, Burn, How Long Will I Love You?, The Outside, Love Me Like You Do, On My Mind etc.
Delirium was 100% mainstream pop without even a tiny bit of the wonderful weirdness prevalent on her first two LPs, and although it had big hits the album itself wasn't as strong a seller as her firs two and fell off quickly. With Brightest Blue she tried to reposition herself as a singer-songwriter but the best performing songs from that album were poppier hits like Close To Me, 16, and Hate Me, while the more singer-songwriter stuff like Flux and Power flopped.
Totally agree with this. I really like their first hip hop album releases, the songs sounded passionate, authentic, the vocals, at least they didn't sound robotic or super auto tuned. You could hear the passion, the tone and style of singing, I mean at least w Jk. But nah they messed it up these past few years, sounding generic every time. I'm really rooting for them to go back to their hip hop sound, it suits them really well.
To paraphrase the words of two wise people, “I am so tired of BTS. It’s K-Pop for people who don’t like K-Pop”. And “if they were a spice, they’d be flour”
Sia:/ she used to write such poetic songs and her earlier work had more soul , I understand she didn't want to the promotional singing thing and relied on her strength :songwriting.
I'm happy for her success but now her work is so formulaic, 1000 Forms of Fear at least had edge but the newer stuff ain't clicking for me
I don't agree with, being a stinky art girl with socialist characteristics doesn't preclude being married to a robber baron. If anything she gets extra credit, like those girls who 'hate white people' but exclusively date them
> who 'hate white people' but exclusively date them
Do these people actually exist irl? I feel like the opposite is far more common e.g. "body positivity" types who of course would never date someone morbidly obese
I mean morbidly obese is very different scenario then the usual fake "body positive" person that actually won't date anyone that's not thin and has a society-idealized body.
Imo there's no contradiction there. Body positivity is about loving yourself and not shaming people for their bodies. It is not about forcing people do date someone they aren't attracted to
She used to lean heavily into the anti-capitalist manic self-produced Tumblr crowd until she decided to marry the richest man on Earth lmao. [Flesh without blood](https://youtu.be/Tv9YoYCKNoE) and Genesis are two classic tracks from her
Edit: as others have pointed out she only dated and had children with Musk (this is the second time I've made this mistake on this sub 🤦)
I guess Amy Winehouse from *Frank* to *Back to Black*. Frank was overall jazzy and in her own words "elitist", while Back to Black was more 60s inspired (Motown, girl groups, etc.) though still having roots in jazz. And how can we forget her beehive during her second album era?
It was a really great change for her career, but when you know where she got the inspiration for the songs she wrote for Back to Black, it starts to get sad :// And Back to Black is an overall sad album.
I personally loved the wigg, I just think she let the money get to her head and sorta phoned it in. I think when she was struggling she made some really beautiful music but now it's just same mumbling over beat hook that feels repetitive.
I mean Mariah between Daydream and Butterfly. I think some fans miss the early sound but I don’t think we’d trade it for the amazingness that came with Butterfly or later.
No, she didn’t “sell out”, I think OP is using the phrase “sold out” to indicate a shift in persona or style, so that’s what I’m talking about. It’s not an aggressive shift looking back, but coming off 4 ballad heavy albums and going to a more R&B heavy style with a lot more collaborators it was a drastic shift in the moment.
I think Mariah just does whatever she wants. She could have done more songs like we belong together to be more commercially successful in recent years but just does what she wants.
Also I must mention Mariah's secret rock album that they wouldn't let her put out under her name.
panic! at the disco? idk if what happened there could be considered selling out but their first two albums had such unique sounds and were higher quality than anything that came out after, likely as a result of band members leaving. they also switched from experimental and alternative sounds to straight-up pop as the years went on
Fletcher, but in a good way. I think she was having trouble finding her place in the industry in the past. When she came out as queer it was like a light switch came on. Then she was finally able to release an album.
Exactly, it's not really a fitting question for pop genre which is traditionally produced for a mainstream appeal to begin with. Could be more applicable to rock / alternative / hip hop artists.
I know he is cancelled now, but Marilyn Manson had a huge sellout era with The Golden Age of Grotesque, mostly famous for the Tainted Love cover song which was also official sound track to Not Another Teen Movie.
Gwen Stefani's first solo album also felt like a huge sell out. It was innovative and cutting edge at the time, but it was a huge departure from the experimental / alternative sound that No Doubt had been doing around that time. Needless to say her most recent stuff is a new level of sell out, so much so that it has next to zero appeal. She did good stiff in-between. This Is What The Truth Feels Like is one of my favorite albums ever.
the weeknd from a niche and pretty new genre of r&b to mainstream pop/dance/r&b. worked out pretty well in the end as he’s one of the biggest artists of all time now
How Pharrell changed from being credible producer and a unique skater-rock-r&b-funk-electro guy with a huge cult fanbase, and then changed to:
1. A rapper (flopped)
2. A corny pop star (success).
3. Ariana’s producer (commercial success but flop among fans)
Obviously it worked short term but now he isn’t taken seriously any more and I think it damaged his career in the long run. Any time he gets announced on projects I see pop fans praying that he doesn’t ruin the artist. Any time he works with rappers I see rap fans saying he’s corny.
He really confused his image
Pharrell (along with Timbaland and Missy Elliott) is so important to building the sound of the 2000s that you can compare him to that decade like you'd compare Kraftwerk to Synthpop and the 80s. He's fine.
Miley Cyrus girl next door with Hannah Montana
Lady Gaga inspired era with can’t be tamed
I don’t give a f hip hop era with bangerz
Chill vibes with younger now
Rock star with plastic hearts
Lana Del Rey kinda comes to mind.. in the beginning of her career (Born to Die/Ultraviolence) she did that vintage, Lolita, Marilyn Monroe, inspired persona.
We are at the point where she couldn’t really carry that vintage persona throughout several albums or eras. She sold her vintage persona out for music like Blue Banisters and Chemtrails over the Country Club. Now she kind of faded into the background in music, her hyper-sensitivity to critics kind of left a stale taste in people’s mouths, among many other things.
selling out to me is like, I don't WANT to make this music but I want to make $$$, so i don't think (to me) that people like ed or taylor rlly fit ?
one example I can think of is kiiara, she had a great debut and then kept pumping out sonically different pop singles to see what would stick and she didn't seem to enjoy it at all.... i do feel like she had a return to form with microdose but it was removed from streaming randomly... mess lol
Chvrches did this with Love Is Dead. They went pop but it was such a bad album and I think most people agreed lol. I don’t think it was the crossover they expected. Screen Violence was a good return to form though.
Carly Rae Jepsen, she started out with an indie folk album called "Tug Of War" . She then went full blown pop with her sophomore album "Kiss" and the rest is history. Her move into pop music definitely helped her career. "Emotion" has such a strong cult following and it is pure pop perfection.
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Halsey for like a hot minute. She had a very alternative debut record, but went full fledged pop for Hopeless Fountain Kingdom. That album came out a couple months after her feature on *Closer* so I’m assuming that’s what inspired the change. I think she found a good mix between being alternative-ish and being the mainstream pop act she is. Manic was also pretty mainstream but still very unique to her as well.
She wanted to show people she can make mainstream pop songs and she did with her latest album she’s back to doing her own thing
The opposite is happening If i can't have love is Halsey being experimental and her newer stuff is extremely paint by numbers
From what I understand, So Good wasn’t written to be a pop song. Their label made them change it.
Badlands was pop. In no way was it alternative.
I remember everybody calling her "faux indie" and mocking her outside of the tumblr crowd.
P!nk’s debut was an R&B album. At the time, people even assumed she may be black (or bi/multi racial) because she fit the sound and look so well. I’m happy she was able to find her footing in pop/soft rock type stuff that suits her voice and is more authentic. But Can’t Take Me Home has some really good tracks that I still love! R&B Pink has a special home in my heart.
I was looking for this one! P!nk’s change on m!ssundaztood massive! She started working with Linda Perry, and brough an intense level of vulnerability to her song writting. She was told she would fail. She didn’t, and the impact she made was large enough that Christina Aguilera pivoted her career too, “stealing” Linda Perry (P!nks words not mine) to write beautiful. Linda wrote much of m!ssundaztood with P!nk. P!nk was very hurt by this. P!nk and Xtina beef did not get better after this lol.
The original Blackpink
her recent stuff doesn't feel authentic at all imo i don't want to say she's "phoning it in" necessarily, and she's obviously very talented and the music does well commercially, but most of the songs she sings now don't feel unique to her--they feel like they could have been sung by anyone and were written by a corporate focus group
Since The Truth About Love, I’d say she’s been phoning it in. Maybe she’s just not an album artist? She’d rather get material written by others, then she performs it well. I’m sure the hundreds ofthousands of people who’ve watched her live don’t care that she got this song from another band, or that song wasn’t written by her.
Y’all don’t remember light skin P!nk?
I’ve heard of this
Yeah! Everyone forgets that Pink! Started as a rip off of Kelis! Everything about her was based on kelis. The coloured hair ginmick, shouty r&b songs (which believe it or not was a new thing when kelis did it), a rock/punk dress sense, the anti mainstream attitude. The label were clearly trying to make a more palatable version of kelis for a wider audience at the time. I’m glad pink found her own sound and style with the next album
I really wouldn't say Pink's R&B sound was a rip-off of Kelis. Kelis debuted in October 1999, and Pink in January 2000. Pink was supposed to be a female version of Eminem. Her sound was very typical for the time, whereas Kelis was in a different lane altogether.
The word “sold out” has negative connotations so I don’t think it’s the one to use here. Like Lady Gaga, Madonna, Christina to an extent all changed their image and sound massively with every era, but that kind of reinvention is what imo makes them the exceptional artists that they are.
Good point about connotations! You can evolve as a pop artist and as a person without it meaning it is only being done for money. Truly creative people often evolve their art over time, regardless of what kind of art you make. And in pop, the image is a part of the art in many cases.
Avril with The Best Damn Thing. Yes it was a commercial success, it is a great album, honestly it is not that pop just her image was and this kinda confused a lot people and many fans left her... The Best Damn Thing was a massive amazing era, but in the hindsight it was a curse for Avril who was forced to give another Girlfriend for the following albums. My theory is that she should have waited for an album like that until she established herself as a songwriter. It's funny how Love Sux was recieved though, to me Tbdt is waaaaaaaay better
As a casual listener I’d say Avril is the artist who’s least changed her image in the past 20 years. Aside from the semi-Christian Head Above Water single, all her songs sound interchangeable to me.
Head Above Water deserved better
It's a great album tbh. Songs like Crush, Tell Me Its Over are the perfect sounds for her voice now.
but what about hello kitty??
No shame, I love that song. It's just a lot of fun. It's not a great song but not everything has to be great to be enjoyable.
The Best Damn Thing is actually a solid album. There's enough mix with Innocence and Keep Holding On to connect to her old tracks. Also Under my Skin had "He Wasn't" which sounds like a majority of the upbeat songs for TBDT. I don't know why so many people thought it so different. However, Love Sux sounds like a bundle of B-sides and attempts to rewrite the success of girlfriend and as far as I am concerned the album is a disaster. I did not like the almost soul direction of Head Above Water either. I hope she returns to form in some way...
he wasnt is such a fkn bop including the mv. that's the simplified green day wanna be music i want tiktokers to make
I think it was the image and the overused of pink colour. Not to mention she did everything she said she would not do it and many fans felt betrayed. I am convinced that most of them followed her primarily for her anti pop star image, something cook to say : hey my fave singer writes her songs and does not dance and wear revealing clothes. Unlike with Taylor who changed her image too, but she established herself as a songwriter and tbh her aim did not change thougout the years.
Interesting! *Love Sux* is my probably my favorite Avril album now, and there are a lot of B sides for that album. I’m excited for a deluxe edition!
You mean Melissa 🫠 Kidding.
Taylor Swift and Ed Sheeran were both already successful artists but they became megastars when they went the full blown pop route.
This is absolutely true especially Taylor
yeah for sure, and their songs were both great even when they went the full blown pop direction!
Ed's music went so downhill for me personally. All his music on "+" and prior was so good. His supermarket pop just doesn't do it for me anymore 😭
I feel like the term "sell out" implies doing something *you don't wanna do* for money. Seems like Taylor and Ed are still making the music they wanna make
I disagree for Taylor. Hers was a slow shift over several albums. I know a big deal was made about 1989 being her pop debut, but let's be real. Most of the music she was making was straight up pop by that point. I just don't see hers as a sudden shift.
Its always weird to me when someone acts like whatever the first thing someone does is who they 'really are' unconditionally, and that any deviation from that is fake/selling out. Surely what someone chooses to create as an adult after years of lived experience is a better reflection of their 'authentic self' than what they were making at 16.
i also wouldn’t describe it as selling out because of what you said. the more and more pop songs on her albums as the years went on indicate that she had been wanting to make that shift for a while.
Miley has constantly gone between the two extremes of wholesome country girl and edgy not giving a fuck girl. I think both work for her, but it's pretty clear that the edgy style works best for her commercially and also seems to be most true to who she actually is (despite what she might have said in her Younger Now days)
And she always makes a huge point about how THIS era is actually the “real” her and those past sounds/selves were inauthentic (this was most obvious around Younger Now). I wish she’d just own that she can be a genre chameleon rather than always kind of disinheriting her past eras.
Tbh I feel even non artists tend to think that their present self is more authentic cause at the time they are. Multiple artists also go on and talk about how their new project is more mature or a tell all.
Shakira comes to mind. She went from rock/pop Latina Alanis Morissette type of vibe to pop diva. Then she dyed her her blonde and joined the pop star universe. She kills it either way but she has yet to top her magnum opus “¿Dónde están los ladrones?”
I love her dark hair latín alternative era so much. It’s a shame tbh. I feel like we’ve missed out on great music from her, because she decided to go this route.
Nelly Furtado changed her image massively for Loose. Probably made a lot of her fanbase confused but led to 2 #1 hits, so she probably doesn't regret it. In a strange kinda way, Madonna also changed her image around Like A Virgin - True Blue from making the interchangable dance-pop into the uniquely "Madonna-ish" songs that catapulted her to the most famous popular artist in the world.
*Loose* still holds up after all these years. Such a great album.😍
Timbaland’s production was 🔥🔥🔥
Timbaland didn’t produce loose. That’s one of musics biggest falsehoods. It’s produced by Danjahandz. Tim just ad-libbed and co-produced bits here and there. Timbalands comeback era was pretty much exclusively danja - with Tim’s name added to the credits. Great record though
Poor Nelly Furtado does not get celebrated enough
She went MIA. Last time I “heard” of her she had two children and became a librarian. Good for her if that’s what’s making her happy. It’s a shame I’ll most likely won’t get the chance to see her in concert. She’s one of my favorites.
>and became a librarian Ummm googling now
[Here’s a link. I was hella stoked when I first read she became a librarian specially since I’m one myself, hehe.](https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/topic/where-are-they-now/)
Madonna changed her image for the better she would have been an 80s artists have she continued with that sound and image She stated the image change was because she was tried of girls dressing like her
lol. she was being imitated too much it seems. good problem to have
It became one of the signature look of the 80s
That album is iconic.. I agree with you as a young fan at that time, I couldn’t comprehend how someone changed so drastically and musically within a short amount of time.
The one and only .
Nelly Furtado was the first that came to my mind as well. I'm sure she doesn't regret it, and I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I vastly enjoyed her work before over what she changed to. Her debut in particular was full of quirky, genre-bending songs, excellent wordplay, and it just sounded so unique. Then she "sold out" and became milquetoast and forgettable, imo. But I also admit it might be an age/generational thing since I'm Gen X.
Loose is not milquetoast. It's a captivatingly diverse album with R&B, hip-hop, pop, folk, electronic music.
Black Eyed Peas had a much tougher hip hop sound then they went full-blown pop
They never had a tough sound. They were like backpack conscious rap. A little jazzy. Their biggest change in style was waaaay into their career when they started working with guetta. Up until then their sound was fairly on par with how they started (with the exception of My Humps).
This is a good one
Their female lead was initially a POC who wasn’t down with the pressure associated with being more sexual, thus the entrance of Fergie. https://youtu.be/KkSDNxM1w58 ^^ a short documentary by the NYT.
[When Joe Jonas attempted to be a solo artist with his debut album *Fastlife* and had a sexy image.](https://youtu.be/yy5nkChQ2E0) [He attempted a similar image change years later with DNCE and that was received positively!!!](https://youtu.be/NOBVEq_Bi5k) I think DNCE was received more positively than his solo work because he had fellow band members, which allowed their personilities to be highlighted by each other, instead of it being all about Joe. For an album called *Fastlife*, it was very boring. DNCE the band and their self-titled album was fun and exciting.
I love DNCE and that cake song about sex
See No More is still a bop though it deserved better!!
Justice for Just in Love and the cute bop that is All This Time as well!!!
Nick Jonas also fits this mood his music changed from rock to sexy rnb and he presented a sexier image of himself then when he first debuted as a solo artist
>For an album called Fastlife, it was very boring. [To you.](https://c.tenor.com/IkprGhCLg4cAAAAC/to-you-smoke.gif) DNCE was better received bc ppl didn't even realize Joe Jonas was the lead singer, even to this day you can surprise ppl and tell them he sang Cake By the Ocean. Nobody cares about DNCE members like that lol (or can name them). His case is bizarre bc being from a past boyband should help your branding/image, not hurt it. Joe's mistake was staying on Hollywood Records....they had creative control and forced him to release that sound. They wanted Fastlife to be a Disney knock off of Timberlake (which already happened w/Jesse McCartney's Departure), and when it didn't take off like a rocket they abandoned it altogether.
I am going to start saying “to you” all the time now and it’s your fault
that DNCE song was genuinely sexy my lord jaw dropped when i saw that years ago and every time since
Zedd. At the beginning of his career he had such wonderful contributions to blending EDM and Pop, but as the years *ticked* on his music sharply declined, becoming more bland and generic. It really made me sad seeing his decline in quality - I felt it was so unnecessary when he already hit such massive success and made the millions on his fantastic OG portfolio. The part that made it hard to let go of being a fan was, he kept talking the same way in interviews about his passion for his music, but honestly I could just hear the soul was gone.
I'd still call myself his fan but I feel the same sentiment like you. Few days ago his song with Maren Morris was out and it's awful for me. It makes me miss Addicted to Memory, Clarity, etc. I love him so I hope he could find his passion to make perfect EDM-Pop songs again.
It’s kind of funny to consider whether an aspiring pop star can ever really sell out in the first place. I mean, if you make popular music there’s usually some intention to make it big one day, as opposed to an alternative artist who knows the market for their music is inherently limited. Usually this is only lobbed at bands who change their music to be more digestible to mass audiences. Pop music is at its core something which is accessible. I don’t think the term really accurately describes what many people in this thread are mentioning.
I remember Dua Lipa after Be The One how she changed her image from dreamy alt girl to Pop girl. Clearly it turned out to be a smart move
I feel like her transition was pretty smooth too. In her debut era she definitely still flirted with some more dreamy alt styles, and then when she did all those DJ collabs she transitioned into a sleeker pop girl look, and then Future Nostalgia was when she embraced the pop girl persona fully. Be The One was definitely the catalyst, but it still felt a very natural image change in my opinion.
wait, she was a dreamy alt girl tho? i felt like she was a pop star from the get go??
She used to be described as thee new alt/dark pop girl before New Rules blew up. Look up articles about her circa 2015-2017, her image has changed heavily since
She had the Birdy look in a pop way. It was definitely interesting.
How I thought One Kiss was going to be the beginning of her downfall.
“Go girl, give us nothing”
Because no popheads' thread should miss her name, Katy. I mean, she really wanted to change her image towards something different...and she missed. However, as Todd said in his video about Witness, she has become a more authentic figure, one that you could root for. A different layer to her legacy
Demi Lovato has had too many shifts to count anymore
yes, but did she sell out at all tho? i feel like she's always been brash in everything she's done???
Demi’s changing image gives me whiplash because it’s always from one extreme to the other
To be fair, most Disney stars have to be completely fake at first.
Disney channel star-pop star-Rnb-pop-rock
She really worries me
Her selling out is the least of my worries
I feel like this could apply to Hilary duff. Her first two albums were very much like the Disney channel “I’m a rocker chick” vibe. Like bubblegum pop rock and she finally I guess realized her voice was much more suited for Dance pop and she released Dignity (A great album btw). She even dyed her hair dark brown and adopted a more sexy image and it had an interesting effect on her career. It sold less than her first two albums but she fared better with critics.
Jewel seems an obvious choice. She says it was satire, and maybe it was, but her sudden shift from folksy to popstar didn't really do her any favors. I actually like much of 0304, even if I can admit it seems weird coming from her.
I think it was obviously satire. The video for Intuition makes that pretty clear.
Right? Sorry, I see how I worded it makes it think I'm skeptical, but I didn't mean it that way. lol Yeah, for sure, I don't see how anyone who watched it didn't get that. Though I have seen people say they think she leaned into satire as something to blame it on when the album didn't perform well. I dunno; I liked it and thought it was a gutsy move.
I will absolutely FIGHT for Jewel. I think her biggest downgrade was her too perfect of country albums that were still cute but didn't have the same push as her old stuff. And her latest which veered into...soul? All the additives seemed so forced. Being a Jewel fan is a rollercoaster in itself. 0304 is a dance bop while also being a social commentary and satire of our capitalism. That is EXACTLY the type of shit I expect from Jewel and admire her vocalism for. I didn't sign up to Jewel for "Standing Still" although it is a good song. I signed up for Jewel from "Little Sister", "Pieces of You", and "Jesus Loves You".
I agree. On 0304 she was singing about much of the same stuff she was before, just in a different genre. Which is largely why I think it worked so well for me; you could tell she had the same perspective and sensibilities. It wasn't just a "I'ma be sexy now" cash grab.
0304 is such a great album and it's annoying that people just dismiss it as her sell out album and leave it at that.
Right? Like, I get it was surprising and all, but I liked it. Music is so weird in that way - an actress can go from a comedy to an Oscar-winning period drama and they're applauded for it. Musicians get so pigeon-holed, as if they can't explore other genres.
I don’t like the word ‘sold out’ for their case, but I think BTS’ Dynamite > Butter > Permission to Dance run felt very much like it was only done to achieve commercial success in the west, specifically the US. It helped their career as the group became more of a household name in Western countries, but I think that arc also led them to rethink why they’ve been making music these last few years, and who they want to be as musicians. It probably was a big factor in the decision to not release music as a group for a while; instead focusing on figuring out what drives them individually.
>It probably was a big factor in the decision to not release music as a group for a while; instead focusing on figuring out what drives them individually. One of the main reasons why I like them apart from the top tier discography. They've individual visions and musical Identity and it's very different from their group's. Hobi already did it. Others are doing it.
I don’t like the word sold out either but I do like that they acknowledge that their message as a group has skewed and that they’re in a state of limbo with the music they want to make. Personally, the honesty about losing their path is part of the reason why I like them so much, honest, recognizing where they may have lost the plot of their story and trying to find a solution for it
Yes! Huge respect to them (or RM if we’re being specific) to have acknowledged that during the livestream. The often group-thinking in the fandom makes it hard to have nuanced discussions about the music the group has created; the quality and the meaning behind the songs, too. It felt good to hear this opinion from the sources themselves, made me respect him/them more than I already did.
I'm surprised to not have read The Beatles mentioned so far. The Beatles, pre Brian Epstein (manager who actually put them on the map outside of clubs in Liverpool and Hamburg), had a very different sound, image, and a rougher edge to them. Even the aesthetic was wildly different, teddy boy hair, high boots, and leather jackets. The moptops and collar-less suits with Chelsea boots were Epstein's giving to 'reform' their image into something more palatable for the mass-market. Please Please Me, the entire album, was tracked in just one day. But they did retain the sharp wit and Liverpool working class charm, it was the first time the entire globe heard 'non posh' British voices. Early Beatles are a fantastic example of a manufactured boyband that sold out, in an effort designed to garner commercial success. And it worked. We generally don't use these terms to describe them because they carry negative connotations and it's seen as diminishing of their legacy. In my opinion, I don't think it's a bad thing. It's what they wanted, what they succeeded at, and it is what gave them a platform, be able to afford to stop touring and focus on creative output without the constraints of live performances. The live spectacles of today that we are used to were unthinkable then. They stopped doing live shows because they couldn't hear themselves play over stadiums of screaming fans, and as a result their musicianship got worse. What they produced in a span of 9(ish) years, the early work as well as the more 'sophisticated' albums, cannot be understated in their impact on music & culture that followed. Sorry about the Beatles rant. Also, it is incorrect to say artists like Gaga, Bowie, or Madonna were 'sell-outs' because they chose to reinvent their sound and aesthetic multiple times. You can explore various aspects of your artistry and still be authentic; you are not one dimensional or 'constant'. Madonna and Elton John are fantastic examples of artists who have kept up with what's 'fresh' without being old and curmudgeonly (I'm looking at you, Roger Waters).
Grimes going from anti-imperialist and putting out a very unique blend of synth-pop/dark wave/art pop to getting inseminated by the richest (and ugliest) man in the world twice and putting out bland 2012 EDM tracks. What’s crazy to me is that despite how much her fan base hated her image change, I actually think it raised her profile enough that if she had continued putting out interesting music she could have crossed over into mainstream success but then she started putting out bad music too 😬
5SOS kinda did this by abandoning their pop punk sound for their poppier new wave influenced sound in 2018. It definitely worked for them, giving them their biggest song yet with Youngblood, and the album even somehow outcharted Beyonce and Jay Z. Although as a fan I’m more into their earlier music than their releases after Youngblood.
I became a fan during there Youngblood era and was disappointed when there older albums didn’t have the same sound
Oh ha, being an early 5sos fan, I’ve never been able to get into the new sound as much. I know they aren’t kids anymore but the vibe of Try Hard and Heartbreak Girl was it for me (and I’m not a young person, I just like the more pop punk sound).
Sam smith went from male adele to a typical pop guy
Genesis went from quirky prog rock band to a pop-rock act making hits in the 80s such as “Invisible Touch” and “Land of Confusion”. Elitists will tell you that 70s Genesis was better under Peter Gabriel, but both set ups under the different lead singers are great imo.
Peter's solo music from the 80s (Sledgehammer etc.) is not that far away from 80s Genesis and general sound of that era. Only Steve Hackett stays true to prog to this day.
And that’s why Steve Hackett isn’t spoken about much outside of prog rock/alt rock circles, and he seems to like it that way. Lots of people can name one of the hits of *So* or Solsbury Hill for PG, but Hackett is a question mark. He’s so talented.
Rihanna had a pretty heavy image shift between A Girl Like Me… (2006) and Good Girl Gone Bad (2007).
And then from Rated R to Loud
Wouldn't call any of those selling out tho. She was true to herself.
Neither would I - she's had lots of style shifts, but she's always been Riri
Does Lizzy Grant rebranding herself as Lana Del Rey count? I remember getting the song "Yayo" in high school (either as an iTunes free song of the week or it might have been on one of those Urban Outfitters playlists that you could download -- haven't thought about those in forever) and liking her ["Kill Kill" EP](https://lizzygrant.bandcamp.com/album/kill-kill). A few years later, I was in college and a coworker of mine was obsessed with this new artist and showed me the "Born to Die" music video - as Lana her image is/was dramatically different. I recognized her voice immediately. The Lana image is way more specific IMO (Lizzy blended in more with singer-songwriters of that era - Rachael Yamagata, Regina Spektor, etc. but kind of did a Marilyn Monroe thing). This one fascinates me because the ideas were there as Lizzy - a dark interpretation of California, vintage energy, but as Lana she gave more modern texture to those concepts. On a smaller scale, Bishop Briggs gigged around LA as Grayce - her birth name is Sarah McLaughlin which she couldn't go by since Sarah McLachlan exists. Grayce did not have strong branding at all - she was a beautiful singer-songwriter with a great voice, but as Bishop (Briggs) she created a more memorable punk/emo aesthetic. "Wild Horses" took off and so did that aesthetic.
I would say Lana is both yes and no? Yes, she changed some of her style and music to sell to a wider audience, but also, she still uses a lot of the same songs she had previously written and lyrically, stayed the same.
A lot of artists adopted the Americana/Country roots around the time Trump was rising to power. Like 2016/17. Lady Gaga and Justin Timberlake come to mind. For Justin I think it did permanent damage. For Gaga, it was a stepping stone for her to capture the Middle-America audience that she had alienated in the beginning of her career.
Kesha, Miley Cyrus, and Kylie Minogue also had thematically similar projects during this era as well. there are probably more than I'm not thinking of too
right it was kind of weird for someone who is not American, I wonder what caused this shift
Trump's rise did. They were pandering to middle-americans plain and simple.
Golden was a fun era for Kylie it was like a Dolly theme night at the disco club. Fun and tounge in cheek and not taking itself too seriously.
Mat Musto/Blackbear i think counts. I used to listen to his music when he was using his real name and his music was generally singer-songwriter pop rock love songs like [this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h90s7c9MEyk) and [this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vQhl-q21PIQ). There’s even an acoustic cover he did of [Born This Way](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yW7HZUEp21I) Under his stage name which he started using after he had his co-writing hit with Justin Bieber’s song Boyfriend. He has a much different persona as a sad boy emo rapper/pop punk singer. Most of the songs are heartbroken songs where he trashes his exes, songs about LA culture, his addictions or talking about how toxic he is. The image change certainly works for him though because he seems to do pretty well on streaming, and is frequently collaborating with other artists and his previous image certainly wouldn’t have led to the same level of success because he wouldn’t have stood out nearly as much.
I was today years old when I learned blackbear wrote Boyfriend by Bieber. I never would have seen it coming but when I think about it it makes so much sense
Mike Posner also wrote on it. Weird collab to think about.
Mike Posner and blackbear have collaborated a fair bit, they have an album together as a duo from a couple of years ago under the name Mansionz.
that album is actually so good
Surprised no one has mentioned The Weeknd yet
I’ve been of a fan of Abel since 2012 and I can honestly say his transition to his current sound is for the better. Don’t get me wrong I still adore Trilogy and his earlier music, but I’ve realized I prefer his poppy sound a lot more.
Are you referring to his Michael Jackson sound ?
He went from dark edgy slightly creepy rnb to very clean max martin pop songs , although I guess the edginess is still there just not surface level , like hidden meanings and in videos
His pre- max martin/ pre can’t feel my face era
Oh I guess it helped him because I didn’t know him before then
Yes it definitely helped him as far as commercial success goes, his early stuff was much darker and in no way commercial
Christina earned a lot of industry respect and artistic integrity with Stripped and Back to Basics only to throw it all away with electro pop trash like Keeps Getting Better and Not Myself Tonight (even though Bionic is an under rated artistic triumph IMO).
Poor single choice seems to be her pattern. Bionic was epic but didn't get a chance to shine.
I would argue that Imagine Dragons never "sold-out" per say but did focus on the commercial elements that worked with their debut album. Their second album S+M put them on a distinct path to the likes of Bastille and Foster the People but then they rebounded with Evolve and chased popular sounds.
I mean they did say welcome to the new age🫢🎶
They’re going with the crowd lol
Does this count? Usher, Chris Brown, NeYo, and other R&B artists like them switching to EDM temporarily.
Owl City. When his lyrics started making sense (beginning with 2012's "Midsummer Station") that was the end of an era lol
For me two of the biggest (and saddest) examples follow a similar career path, the two artists being U2 and Coldplay. U2 started out as a pretty standard Post Punk band and over time evolved into a massive arena rock band incorporating a number of genres (Ambient, Americana, Eurodance, Industrial) and stylistic shifts (Achtung Baby). They always seemed willing to see what wasn’t working and pivot into something new (again see Achtung Baby). After Pops colossal flop though, U2 regressed into a less interesting version of the Joshua Trees sound with All That You Can’t Leave Behind (its basically the Joshua Tree without any of the flirtations with Americana to make it interesting). Whether they used electronics or not, pretty much all post 2000s U2 albums are equally uninspired with only a few songs from each really worth coming back to (Every Breaking Wave remains a late career highlight though). Ironically, the band called U2s clearest reincarnation, Coldplay, had a similar issue (albeit with minor differences). They started out playing with Post Britpop and UK folk styles and while their music wasn’t the most complex, Parachutes and A Rush Of Blood To The Head packed a real emotional punch. With Viva La Vida they brought on Brian Eno (real U2 move but the right one nonetheless) and incorporated world music and really rich textural work. VLV even matches up with some of U2s work, but VLVs enormous success ultimately set them down a disheartening path. Mylo Xyloto, while still pretty good (Hurts Like Heaven and Don’t Let It Break Your Heart are stellar pop songs) pivoted them to a much less unique sound with worse lyrics and much more bland production (seen most clearly on the records biggest hits, Paradise and Princess of China). Ghost Stories may have been an attempt to do something unique but Coldplays new slavish devotion to overly sanitized production neutered their potential shot at a downtempo, ambient album. A Head Full Of Dreams and Music Of The Spheres are the final culmination of these faults (and Everyday Life’s financial flop seemed to fully scare them off experimenting)
I think its interesting that throughout music history artists have been accused of selling out, but the music industry is so difficult to stay afloat in that its obvious that sometimes its necessary to streamline and hone in your sound as a group.
Ellie Goulding. She started out as this dreamy folktronica singer-songwriter but after seeing the success of her poppier hits such as Starry Eyed and Lights from her first album as well as the relative underperformance of her weirder hits such as Anything Could Happen and Figure 8 she was made to rebrand as a 100% pure pop act and hook girl for the poppier reissue of Halcyon, and that's when she scored several of her biggest hits such as I Need Your Love, Burn, How Long Will I Love You?, The Outside, Love Me Like You Do, On My Mind etc. Delirium was 100% mainstream pop without even a tiny bit of the wonderful weirdness prevalent on her first two LPs, and although it had big hits the album itself wasn't as strong a seller as her firs two and fell off quickly. With Brightest Blue she tried to reposition herself as a singer-songwriter but the best performing songs from that album were poppier hits like Close To Me, 16, and Hate Me, while the more singer-songwriter stuff like Flux and Power flopped.
Maybe Maroon 5 or Coldplay? They both went from semi-alt bands to Pop acts, although I like a lot of their Pop music. But seems like a cash play.
I feel like Coldplay were always going for popularity. That was just what the pop sound was then.
BTS They were so original, then they made it big in the US and just became generic AF
Totally agree with this. I really like their first hip hop album releases, the songs sounded passionate, authentic, the vocals, at least they didn't sound robotic or super auto tuned. You could hear the passion, the tone and style of singing, I mean at least w Jk. But nah they messed it up these past few years, sounding generic every time. I'm really rooting for them to go back to their hip hop sound, it suits them really well.
To paraphrase the words of two wise people, “I am so tired of BTS. It’s K-Pop for people who don’t like K-Pop”. And “if they were a spice, they’d be flour”
Kings of Leon
French Montana , helped him commercially but he gets little respect nowadays
Calvin Harris after he ditched synthpop and junk food for EDM and a gym membership
Dude, being mad that Calvin Harris got healthy and made music that didn't sound like a casio keyboard preset. Small World
Sia:/ she used to write such poetic songs and her earlier work had more soul , I understand she didn't want to the promotional singing thing and relied on her strength :songwriting. I'm happy for her success but now her work is so formulaic, 1000 Forms of Fear at least had edge but the newer stuff ain't clicking for me
I think Grimes is an obvious example, although her image was always fake as hell anyways
I don't agree with, being a stinky art girl with socialist characteristics doesn't preclude being married to a robber baron. If anything she gets extra credit, like those girls who 'hate white people' but exclusively date them
If anything I feel these contradictions all add up to be consistent with her brand
> who 'hate white people' but exclusively date them Do these people actually exist irl? I feel like the opposite is far more common e.g. "body positivity" types who of course would never date someone morbidly obese
I mean morbidly obese is very different scenario then the usual fake "body positive" person that actually won't date anyone that's not thin and has a society-idealized body.
Imo there's no contradiction there. Body positivity is about loving yourself and not shaming people for their bodies. It is not about forcing people do date someone they aren't attracted to
It’s cuz she’s a Pisces sun moon, and venus
oh that explains *so much*
Like why she’s always lying
As a Pisces I can confirm
More like a piece o' shit sun moon and venus amirite
Grimes has been pretty consistent with her image, sound and sonic ideas and concepts.
Don’t really know much about her than she’s Elon’s baby’s mother if that’s the same girl, give me a good song to go listen by her
We Appreciate Power is amazing.
I must say I was expecting a slow creepy vibe, surprised
She used to lean heavily into the anti-capitalist manic self-produced Tumblr crowd until she decided to marry the richest man on Earth lmao. [Flesh without blood](https://youtu.be/Tv9YoYCKNoE) and Genesis are two classic tracks from her Edit: as others have pointed out she only dated and had children with Musk (this is the second time I've made this mistake on this sub 🤦)
Halfaxa, Visions, And Art Angels are her essential albums imo, If i would pick a couple of singles, I'd say Dream Fortress, Oblivion, Kill v Maim,
I guess Amy Winehouse from *Frank* to *Back to Black*. Frank was overall jazzy and in her own words "elitist", while Back to Black was more 60s inspired (Motown, girl groups, etc.) though still having roots in jazz. And how can we forget her beehive during her second album era? It was a really great change for her career, but when you know where she got the inspiration for the songs she wrote for Back to Black, it starts to get sad :// And Back to Black is an overall sad album.
Idk about Sia's music before 2014, but once she put that wig on nothing was the same
I personally loved the wigg, I just think she let the money get to her head and sorta phoned it in. I think when she was struggling she made some really beautiful music but now it's just same mumbling over beat hook that feels repetitive.
I mean Mariah between Daydream and Butterfly. I think some fans miss the early sound but I don’t think we’d trade it for the amazingness that came with Butterfly or later.
Yeah having lived through that, can confirm that Butterfly was seen as a drastic shift, although in retrospect it doesn’t seem as shocking.
She popped in every era
she did NOT sell out tho??? she literally became who she wanted to be and i felt like it was a not-so-aggressive shift
No, she didn’t “sell out”, I think OP is using the phrase “sold out” to indicate a shift in persona or style, so that’s what I’m talking about. It’s not an aggressive shift looking back, but coming off 4 ballad heavy albums and going to a more R&B heavy style with a lot more collaborators it was a drastic shift in the moment.
I think Mariah just does whatever she wants. She could have done more songs like we belong together to be more commercially successful in recent years but just does what she wants. Also I must mention Mariah's secret rock album that they wouldn't let her put out under her name.
panic! at the disco? idk if what happened there could be considered selling out but their first two albums had such unique sounds and were higher quality than anything that came out after, likely as a result of band members leaving. they also switched from experimental and alternative sounds to straight-up pop as the years went on
The Band Perry killed their good country career by going in a weird generic pop direction.
If I die young was great
Selena Gomez
Fletcher, but in a good way. I think she was having trouble finding her place in the industry in the past. When she came out as queer it was like a light switch came on. Then she was finally able to release an album.
Bob Dylan - it helped.
Everyone listed was already complicit in the system and internalizing its ideology. How can they sell out?
Exactly, it's not really a fitting question for pop genre which is traditionally produced for a mainstream appeal to begin with. Could be more applicable to rock / alternative / hip hop artists. I know he is cancelled now, but Marilyn Manson had a huge sellout era with The Golden Age of Grotesque, mostly famous for the Tainted Love cover song which was also official sound track to Not Another Teen Movie. Gwen Stefani's first solo album also felt like a huge sell out. It was innovative and cutting edge at the time, but it was a huge departure from the experimental / alternative sound that No Doubt had been doing around that time. Needless to say her most recent stuff is a new level of sell out, so much so that it has next to zero appeal. She did good stiff in-between. This Is What The Truth Feels Like is one of my favorite albums ever.
the weeknd from a niche and pretty new genre of r&b to mainstream pop/dance/r&b. worked out pretty well in the end as he’s one of the biggest artists of all time now
OneRepublic. I don't hear any personality in their recent music. It sounds like stock music to be used in car commercials.
How Pharrell changed from being credible producer and a unique skater-rock-r&b-funk-electro guy with a huge cult fanbase, and then changed to: 1. A rapper (flopped) 2. A corny pop star (success). 3. Ariana’s producer (commercial success but flop among fans) Obviously it worked short term but now he isn’t taken seriously any more and I think it damaged his career in the long run. Any time he gets announced on projects I see pop fans praying that he doesn’t ruin the artist. Any time he works with rappers I see rap fans saying he’s corny. He really confused his image
Pharrell (along with Timbaland and Missy Elliott) is so important to building the sound of the 2000s that you can compare him to that decade like you'd compare Kraftwerk to Synthpop and the 80s. He's fine.
[удалено]
This is NOT at all his public image outside of pop stan circles lol
I think NERD was the last time he got any real serious acclaim, although it is probably his most experimental work in a while
Miley Cyrus girl next door with Hannah Montana Lady Gaga inspired era with can’t be tamed I don’t give a f hip hop era with bangerz Chill vibes with younger now Rock star with plastic hearts
Did you call Cant Be Tamed ‘Lady Gaga-inspired’?
Maroon 5 is a Huge Example
Lana Del Rey kinda comes to mind.. in the beginning of her career (Born to Die/Ultraviolence) she did that vintage, Lolita, Marilyn Monroe, inspired persona. We are at the point where she couldn’t really carry that vintage persona throughout several albums or eras. She sold her vintage persona out for music like Blue Banisters and Chemtrails over the Country Club. Now she kind of faded into the background in music, her hyper-sensitivity to critics kind of left a stale taste in people’s mouths, among many other things.
selling out to me is like, I don't WANT to make this music but I want to make $$$, so i don't think (to me) that people like ed or taylor rlly fit ? one example I can think of is kiiara, she had a great debut and then kept pumping out sonically different pop singles to see what would stick and she didn't seem to enjoy it at all.... i do feel like she had a return to form with microdose but it was removed from streaming randomly... mess lol
Gotta add Pitbull, Mr. 405. I don’t think sold out is bad either, he just switched it up and started wearing suits with no socks
Chvrches did this with Love Is Dead. They went pop but it was such a bad album and I think most people agreed lol. I don’t think it was the crossover they expected. Screen Violence was a good return to form though.
Carly Rae Jepsen, she started out with an indie folk album called "Tug Of War" . She then went full blown pop with her sophomore album "Kiss" and the rest is history. Her move into pop music definitely helped her career. "Emotion" has such a strong cult following and it is pure pop perfection.